Lack of PVP may be a reason the game has a not so stellar population . However a lot of it probably has to do with Turbine themselves.Just as people think twice before buying SOE products and now Funcom .Turbine doesn't have a great track record either . Total unwillingness to update and keep AC alive , AC2 and the horrible excuse for a D&D mmo they created. Just more evidence to solidify the fact , Screw up your product or screw over your customers , they'll screw you in return.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Lack of PVP may be a reason the game has a not so stellar population . However a lot of it probably has to do with Turbine themselves.Just as people think twice before buying SOE products and now Funcom .Turbine doesn't have a great track record either . Total unwillingness to update and keep AC alive , AC2 and the horrible excuse for a D&D mmo they created. Just more evidence to solidify the fact , Screw up your product or screw over your customers , they'll screw you in return.
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Lack of PVP may be a reason the game has a not so stellar population . However a lot of it probably has to do with Turbine themselves.Just as people think twice before buying SOE products and now Funcom .Turbine doesn't have a great track record either . Total unwillingness to update and keep AC alive , AC2 and the horrible excuse for a D&D mmo they created. Just more evidence to solidify the fact , Screw up your product or screw over your customers , they'll screw you in return.
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
By updating I mean adding to it , Doing something to attempt to draw players to it GFX updates , Expansions etc...
They may have fixed their reputation to those who currently subscribe. However getting back those they burnt is very unlikely. Far to many choices for them to turn to.
Top developers would mean they hold a large share of the market , I find it hard to believe that is the case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Your conception of "storyline driving away players" cannot be really backed or founded from any direction in fact.
2) The period of Middle Earth history during which LOTRO is set is one which most people are familiar with, by way of the LOTR books/movies. We all know who the major players in this story are and precisely how it ends.
You don't need to repeat yourself with the "but it's not the same story". I know. That doesn't change the fact that we know the major story (happening at the same time), who's really doing the important stuff (i.e. not us) and worst of all, how the story ends.
I have ssaid before that some of the best parts in the game are where you cross paths with the iconic characters and places in the story. That makes the game great for those who have read the books/seen the movies. It is great to walk with Frodo and see what he's going through. Or see Weathertop and the campfires that the fellowship left behind. Or Bert, Tom and Bill from the Hobbit (the trolls that were turned to stone) These are all places and events that I love to see and experience. Don't you watch movies more than once and still enjoy them? It's the exact same experience. So, I'm sorry this argument holds no water for me.
3) Being story-based, it splits players into different versions of areas depending on where they are in the story. This, to me, fragments the gameworld and kills 'world factor'.
The game world is not fragmented. There is one place you cant get to unless you complete the Epic quest Book 6. Other than that you can go everywhere in the game without doing any of the epic quests. You are not seperated from anyone in any way. It doesn't matter where you are in the story you can always interact with everyone. The one exception to this is the very beginning intro instances for levels 1-5.
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Lack of PVP may be a reason the game has a not so stellar population . However a lot of it probably has to do with Turbine themselves.Just as people think twice before buying SOE products and now Funcom .Turbine doesn't have a great track record either . Total unwillingness to update and keep AC alive , AC2 and the horrible excuse for a D&D mmo they created. Just more evidence to solidify the fact , Screw up your product or screw over your customers , they'll screw you in return.
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
By updating I mean adding to it , Doing something to attempt to draw players to it GFX updates , Expansions etc...
They may have fixed their reputation to those who currently subscribe. However getting back those they burnt is very unlikely. Far to many choices for them to turn to.
Top developers would mean they hold a large share of the market , I find it hard to believe that is the case.
Look, no one will have a large share of the market anymore, atleast not for a few years after WoW starts to die off. Large market share right now is 5%.
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
This is an awesome game to me, the best way to describe it as I see it is a grown up WoW the only problem is population, I really wish some of AoC marketing would get hired by Turbine this game is too good to be so unpopulated It may just be me but playing it made me long for the population that wow had where as in WoW I found myself if anything longing for more time to solo.
Ok, so LOTRO doesn't have a huge population anymore, it use to trust me I've been playing since the betas, but if it makes you fell better to know that 3/4s of WoW's population is gold farmers/sellers and that WoW's community isn't half as nice as nice as LOTROs (better people) so I would sugest you just wait for the expansion to come out for the new classes and higher level cap because alot of people will be coming back. That was the reason why the population went down, people got bored, the updates were nice but just not fast enough. Also people in almost every game besides WoW always are commenting on how they think the game is dying, when it's not. So again I sugest to wait till the update with classes and higher level cap and new zone comes out. By new zone I mean huge zone like as big as Eriador right now. The game's just taking a break.
------------------------------ END ------------------------------ (names used in previous games) -Desitre -Desiboy -Verra -Auroras Borealis -Scaven ------------------------------ looking forward to... Bioware's MMORPG Stargate ------------------------------
Your conception of "storyline driving away players" cannot be really backed or founded from any direction in fact.
2) The period of Middle Earth history during which LOTRO is set is one which most people are familiar with, by way of the LOTR books/movies. We all know who the major players in this story are and precisely how it ends.
You don't need to repeat yourself with the "but it's not the same story". I know. That doesn't change the fact that we know the major story (happening at the same time), who's really doing the important stuff (i.e. not us) and worst of all, how the story ends.
I have ssaid before that some of the best parts in the game are where you cross paths with the iconic characters and places in the story. That makes the game great for those who have read the books/seen the movies. It is great to walk with Frodo and see what he's going through. Or see Weathertop and the campfires that the fellowship left behind. Or Bert, Tom and Bill from the Hobbit (the trolls that were turned to stone) These are all places and events that I love to see and experience. Don't you watch movies more than once and still enjoy them? It's the exact same experience. So, I'm sorry this argument holds no water for me.
3) Being story-based, it splits players into different versions of areas depending on where they are in the story. This, to me, fragments the gameworld and kills 'world factor'.
The game world is not fragmented. There is one place you cant get to unless you complete the Epic quest Book 6. Other than that you can go everywhere in the game without doing any of the epic quests. You are not seperated from anyone in any way. It doesn't matter where you are in the story you can always interact with everyone. The one exception to this is the very beginning intro instances for levels 1-5.
Wait, you mean you watched the movies and read the books? What was the point to watching the movies? You already know all the major players and you know how it ends . . . .
Hell, why the hell am I reading the books for the 4th time? I mean I already know the major players and I know how they end. I must be crazy . . .
Man if only the overarching storyline of LoTRO were some stupid cobbled together BS like in most MMOs. Then it would be so much better.
Like in WoW where "kindly space demons" crash their starship into Azeroth and joined the Alliiance. That was not at all utterly stupid.
Or how about when they decided to ditch the faction warfare plotlines in AO and had aliens invade the planet. Never saw that one coming , for sure.
Or in DAoC where they keep finding new secret super powerfull races that no-one noticed before. Man that always makes so damn much sense. Especially the ones living in the sewers of freaking Camelot. I mean who ever goes to Camelot, no way anyone would have noticed them.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Wait, you mean you watched the movies and read the books? What was the point to watching the movies? You already know all the major players and you know how it ends . . . .
Hell, why the hell am I reading the books for the 4th time? I mean I already know the major players and I know how they end. I must be crazy . . .
Yeah..I don't know why I watched the movies after I had read the books. I already knew what happened. And guess what I even watched the movies again! I don't know what is wrong with me...and guess what I even enjoyed it!
Hey Aliens are the missing ingredient of LOTRO! That will help our subs
/sarcasm off
****************************** Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
It amazes me that people like Green13 think that he knows everything about LotrO and can do a deep analyze of the game when he hasnt even got out of the the noob instance at lvl 6 (?)!
And since he claimed that story-driven games arent poplular.. lets look at :
AoC... have a very linear story where every character is a runaway slave with a memory loss who turns out to be The Choosen one who have to kill the evil wizard! The world and zones are far more linear than LotrOs
WAR... is seperated into chapters where you follow the story in a linear way.. The entire WAR campaing to siege the enemy city is pretty much a linear story..
Tabula Rasa.. Uses story instances and have a noob instace in the begnining just like LotrO
Chronicles of spellborn.. dont know much about it but seems very story-based
And speaking of WoW... we all know how the story there is going to end... There is a big bad boss in a raid dungeon and a group of people will kill him (Artharas is next..)
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
Originally posted by jarish
Look, no one will have a large share of the market anymore, atleast not for a few years after WoW starts to die off. Large market share right now is 5%.
Or say a company like NCSoft and Guild Wars which has a 16% share actually.
"But another meter shows that in total WoW makes 63% of all Amazon MMO sales, followed by Guild Wars with 16%, and everything else including LotRO, Age of Conan, and WAR at 5% or less."
But, as I have stated before, WAR is the game to watch starting next month. This may be the game to pull the market share from WoW...then we will have some answers on what people really want in their game.
Alot of people (including me) think that PvMP is alot of fun and they will keep supporting it for the players (and not beacuse of what investors mite think)
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This comparison might have some slight relevance if it wasn't for the fact that LoTRO was already out and doing well financially when Time Warner invested in it . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
This comparison might have some slight relevance if it wasn't for the fact that LoTRO was already out and doing well financially when Time Warner invested in it . . .
I am not sure I understand your connotation here. I am crazy because I believe- an investor would like a say in the product they have invested in? I would definitely beg to differ.
You would be crazy to think a conglomerate as big as Time Warner (notorirous for having their say in many things...like for example throttling their Internet users bandwidth in P2P applications) would not want to say "Hey look at that company and their MMO, and how well it is doing. I notice it has this feature that YOU do not...why not implement that"
Turbine WILL change. And it could be for the better, but to blatantly think the investor is not going to try and force their hand is ludicrous.
It amazes me that people like Green13 think that he knows everything about LotrO and can do a deep analyze of the game when he hasnt even got out of the the noob instance at lvl 6 (?)! And since he claimed that story-driven games arent poplular.. lets look at : AoC... have a very linear story where every character is a runaway slave with a memory loss who turns out to be The Choosen one who have to kill the evil wizard! The world and zones are far more linear than LotrOs WAR... is seperated into chapters where you follow the story in a linear way.. The entire WAR campaing to siege the enemy city is pretty much a linear story.. Tabula Rasa.. Uses story instances and have a noob instace in the begnining just like LotrO Chronicles of spellborn.. dont know much about it but seems very story-based
And speaking of WoW... we all know how the story there is going to end... There is a big bad boss in a raid dungeon and a group of people will kill him (Artharas is next..)
Some people have no problem covering lack of knowledge and experience with arrogance and condescence - works in some areas of life, like politics
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is.
LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment.
If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.."
That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's.
And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say.
But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is. LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment. If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.." That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's. And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say. But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Maybe this is why Time Warner invested in Turbine?
"WESTWOOD, MA - July 31, 2008 - Turbine, Inc. announced today its partnership with Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment to distribute The Lord of the Rings Online™: Mines of Moria™ at retail in North America"
Just a wild guess
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is. LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment. If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.." That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's. And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say. But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Maybe this is why Time Warner invested in Turbine?
"WESTWOOD, MA - July 31, 2008 - Turbine, Inc. announced today its partnership with Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment to distribute The Lord of the Rings Online™: Mines of Moria™ at retail in North America"
Just a wild guess
Do you guys not read links? Ok...I apologize for that issue.
Let me try this...
"“Our investment in Turbine is an important addition to Time Warner's entertainment initiatives,” said Rachel Lam, Senior Vice President and Group Managing Director of Time Warner Investments. “Online interactive entertainment is a huge growth market and we are very excited about Turbine, its unique capabilities and the obvious opportunities that exist with our own broad portfolio of IP.”"
I read this to be more than "Can we distribute your game for you?"
As well, the REAL discussion with Turbine is the investment to help Turbine develop a NEW IP also. Now, yes, TWC may leave LOTRO alone and work with Turbine toward managing the new IP, but then this could pull developers away from LOTRO, DDO, etc.
Again, speculation. That is all we are doing is discussing maybe's here.
But, it still boils down to TWC wanting a piece of the pie.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is.
LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment.
If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.."
That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's.
And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say.
But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Ironically enough I agree with your main point. Investors will indeed have some influence over the ongoing development of a property they have invested in. It's common sense. It's just that the "examples" you are using to support this contention (which again, I largely agree with) consist of completely invalid comparisons.
There is no reason to suppose that Time Warner doesn't like what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. They had months to see how the product turned out, how it was performing financially, and what direction Turbine is going with it. Then they decided to make an enormous investment in Turbine.
The example you use to try and make the point "well they can always change their minds" is of a company (MS) that invested in a property when it was nothing but ideas on paper. Sigil repeatedly failed to meet the development milestones that they and MS had agreed to, and MS finally got sick of it and pulled out. That is a totally different situation.
TW is much less likely to try and change the direction that Turbine is going with LoTRO. In the first place, their investment was much less speculative than the investment MS made in Sigil. And I'm not sure how much influence they could exert on the direction of LoTRO even if they wanted to, since the cash seemingly consisted of a signing bonus for a distribution deal for LoTRO and funding for an as yet unnanounced IP (as you pointed out above). The IP they are funding the development of, one the other hand, I'm sure they will have a lot of influence over.
If anyone could exert pressure on Turbine it would be the company that owns the IP they have licensed (Tolkien Enterprises). But so far they have been perfectly happy to accept the big bags of money in the mail from Turbine and have been pretty hands off. Maybe even too much so, honestly (see Runemaster...I'm skeptical from a lore perspective).
In any case, yes, it's perfectly possible that some investors could put a bunch bunch of pressure on Turbine and force them to make some random changes to the game. But there is no evidence that this is currently happening or will happen in the near future. All indications are that TW and Tolkien Enterprises are pretty happy with what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. But hey, who knows? We could all be smashed flat by a meteor later this afternoon too. But I'm not going to leave work early.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
If anyone could exert pressure on Turbine it would be the company that owns the IP they have licensed (Tolkien Enterprises). But so far they have been perfectly happy to accept the big bags of money in the mail from Turbine and have been pretty hands off. Maybe even too much so, honestly (see Runemaster...I'm skeptical from a lore perspective).
In any case, yes, it's perfectly possible that some investors could put a bunch bunch of pressure on Turbine and force them to make some random changes to the game. But there is no evidence that this is currently happening or will happen in the near future. All indications are that TW and Tolkien Enterprises are pretty happy with what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. But hey, who knows? We could all be smashed flat by a meteor later this afternoon too. But I'm not going to leave work early.
I'm not sure I'd say all things are as peachy as you paint them, Especially between the IP holder and the developer.They are having major problems moving this game off shelves, It's on clearance all over . They sell it themselves for $10, That doesn't sound as if they're making big bags of money , More like they're desperate for even a coin purse (never a good thing for such a young product).
If they fail to move expansions as they have with boxes , You can bet that Tolkien Enterprises is going to start wondering what's holding this game back (it's definitely not the I.P). Turbine may please the customers they have , But they really need to do something different to gain new customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It amazes me that people like Green13 think that he knows everything about LotrO and can do a deep analyze of the game when he hasnt even got out of the the noob instance at lvl 6 (?)!
FYI, I made it to my mid-teens a couple of times before I gave up on it.
What I saw in that time was the persistent gameworld changing as a result of quest progression through the use of separate instances. Is it really so surprising then that I expected the rest of the game to be the same, especially when that is precisely how the developers said the game was going to work?
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future.
See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me!
That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release.
If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?!
Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
It amazes me that people like Green13 think that he knows everything about LotrO and can do a deep analyze of the game when he hasnt even got out of the the noob instance at lvl 6 (?)!
FYI, I made it to my mid-teens a couple of times before I gave up on it.
What I saw in that time was the persistent gameworld changing as a result of quest progression through the use of separate instances. Is it really so surprising then that I expected the rest of the game to be the same, especially when that is precisely how the developers said the game was going to work?
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future.
See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me!
That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release.
If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?!
Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future. See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me! That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release. If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?! Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
Ummm, did you read my post, click on any links, like, oh, I dunno, the one to the current LOTRO official game FAQ?
That entry is the one I quoted. So basically what you're saying is I'm silly for reading current game info from this game's official website and believing it?
I had no idea this particular forum could be this entertaining. I'm actually starting to feel like I'm getting some of my money's worth out of the game now!
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future. See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me! That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release. If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?! Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
Ummm, did you read my post, click on any links, like, oh, I dunno, the one to the current LOTRO official game FAQ?
That entry is the one I quoted. So basically what you're saying is I'm silly for reading current game info from this game's official website and believing it?
I had no idea this particular forum could be this entertaining. I'm actually starting to feel like I'm getting some of my money's worth out of the game now!
My apologies. It you are correct, your utter ignorance of one of the basics of the game is founded on misinformation in the current FAQ rather than a beta FAQ. Honestly, the section that you quoted was so misleading that I assumed that it could not be from the current FAQ. Based on what you wrote (highlighted above in red, and I see now that I did misinterpret it), I assumed it must have been from the beta. Yes indeed, that is a out of date FAQ entry. Perhaps one of their webmasters should be shot.
Regardless, being completely ignorant of such a fundamental aspect of the gameplay in LoTRO doesn't give your opinions about it much weight.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
My apologies. It you are correct, your utter ignorance of one of the basics of the game is founded on misinformation in the current FAQ rather than a beta FAQ. Honestly, the section that you quoted was so misleading that I assumed that it could not be from the current FAQ. Based on what you wrote (highlighted above in red, and I see now that I did misinterpret it), I assumed it must have been from the beta. Yes indeed, that is a out of date FAQ entry. Perhaps one of their webmasters should be shot.
Don't take my word for it - click here and see for yourself. The only change is that they've removed the final sentence which promises to release more details on this feature in the future.
Originally posted by Yeebo
Regardless, being completely ignorant of such a fundamental aspect of the gameplay in LoTRO doesn't give your opinions about it much weight.
I disagree. I know I do that a lot but, hear me out.
I'm quite happy to concede that I was wrong about what the game is. But I trusted the LOTRO official site's game information. So would other potential subscribers - and they'd have been just as misled as I was.
This particular feature was the reason I stopped playing after two weeks. I didn't even bother finishing up with my initial free four weeks because I hadn't seen anything spectacular enough in the game to overcome this enormous flaw.
This feature was seemingly abandoned in the late stages of beta. It seems to work just fine with the starting area, so it doesn't seem likely it would have been removed for technical reasons.
What if they removed it because it did what I said it would - fragment the player's sense of a persistent gameworld - and then forgot to publicise the fact?
It's given me a good laugh but.... you all are playing a game that other folk, who've read that FAQ on any number of websites, has no idea exists.
[edit] I submitted feedback via the LOTRO forums with advice that you all were pretty sure this FAQ entry was wrong.
Comments
Lack of PVP may be a reason the game has a not so stellar population . However a lot of it probably has to do with Turbine themselves.Just as people think twice before buying SOE products and now Funcom .Turbine doesn't have a great track record either . Total unwillingness to update and keep AC alive , AC2 and the horrible excuse for a D&D mmo they created. Just more evidence to solidify the fact , Screw up your product or screw over your customers , they'll screw you in return.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
By updating I mean adding to it , Doing something to attempt to draw players to it GFX updates , Expansions etc...
They may have fixed their reputation to those who currently subscribe. However getting back those they burnt is very unlikely. Far to many choices for them to turn to.
Top developers would mean they hold a large share of the market , I find it hard to believe that is the case.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
2) The period of Middle Earth history during which LOTRO is set is one which most people are familiar with, by way of the LOTR books/movies. We all know who the major players in this story are and precisely how it ends.
You don't need to repeat yourself with the "but it's not the same story". I know. That doesn't change the fact that we know the major story (happening at the same time), who's really doing the important stuff (i.e. not us) and worst of all, how the story ends.
I have ssaid before that some of the best parts in the game are where you cross paths with the iconic characters and places in the story. That makes the game great for those who have read the books/seen the movies. It is great to walk with Frodo and see what he's going through. Or see Weathertop and the campfires that the fellowship left behind. Or Bert, Tom and Bill from the Hobbit (the trolls that were turned to stone) These are all places and events that I love to see and experience. Don't you watch movies more than once and still enjoy them? It's the exact same experience. So, I'm sorry this argument holds no water for me.
3) Being story-based, it splits players into different versions of areas depending on where they are in the story. This, to me, fragments the gameworld and kills 'world factor'.
The game world is not fragmented. There is one place you cant get to unless you complete the Epic quest Book 6. Other than that you can go everywhere in the game without doing any of the epic quests. You are not seperated from anyone in any way. It doesn't matter where you are in the story you can always interact with everyone. The one exception to this is the very beginning intro instances for levels 1-5.******************************
Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Actually Turbine is one of the top developers now BTW. They have fixed their reputation with LOTRO and I think the still update AC pretty well don't they?
By updating I mean adding to it , Doing something to attempt to draw players to it GFX updates , Expansions etc...
They may have fixed their reputation to those who currently subscribe. However getting back those they burnt is very unlikely. Far to many choices for them to turn to.
Top developers would mean they hold a large share of the market , I find it hard to believe that is the case.
Look, no one will have a large share of the market anymore, atleast not for a few years after WoW starts to die off. Large market share right now is 5%.
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
Ok, so LOTRO doesn't have a huge population anymore, it use to trust me I've been playing since the betas, but if it makes you fell better to know that 3/4s of WoW's population is gold farmers/sellers and that WoW's community isn't half as nice as nice as LOTROs (better people) so I would sugest you just wait for the expansion to come out for the new classes and higher level cap because alot of people will be coming back. That was the reason why the population went down, people got bored, the updates were nice but just not fast enough. Also people in almost every game besides WoW always are commenting on how they think the game is dying, when it's not. So again I sugest to wait till the update with classes and higher level cap and new zone comes out. By new zone I mean huge zone like as big as Eriador right now. The game's just taking a break.
------------------------------
END
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(names used in previous games)
-Desitre -Desiboy -Verra -Auroras Borealis -Scaven
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looking forward to...
Bioware's MMORPG
Stargate
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2) The period of Middle Earth history during which LOTRO is set is one which most people are familiar with, by way of the LOTR books/movies. We all know who the major players in this story are and precisely how it ends.
You don't need to repeat yourself with the "but it's not the same story". I know. That doesn't change the fact that we know the major story (happening at the same time), who's really doing the important stuff (i.e. not us) and worst of all, how the story ends.
I have ssaid before that some of the best parts in the game are where you cross paths with the iconic characters and places in the story. That makes the game great for those who have read the books/seen the movies. It is great to walk with Frodo and see what he's going through. Or see Weathertop and the campfires that the fellowship left behind. Or Bert, Tom and Bill from the Hobbit (the trolls that were turned to stone) These are all places and events that I love to see and experience. Don't you watch movies more than once and still enjoy them? It's the exact same experience. So, I'm sorry this argument holds no water for me.
3) Being story-based, it splits players into different versions of areas depending on where they are in the story. This, to me, fragments the gameworld and kills 'world factor'.
The game world is not fragmented. There is one place you cant get to unless you complete the Epic quest Book 6. Other than that you can go everywhere in the game without doing any of the epic quests. You are not seperated from anyone in any way. It doesn't matter where you are in the story you can always interact with everyone. The one exception to this is the very beginning intro instances for levels 1-5.Wait, you mean you watched the movies and read the books? What was the point to watching the movies? You already know all the major players and you know how it ends . . . .
Hell, why the hell am I reading the books for the 4th time? I mean I already know the major players and I know how they end. I must be crazy . . .
Man if only the overarching storyline of LoTRO were some stupid cobbled together BS like in most MMOs. Then it would be so much better.
Like in WoW where "kindly space demons" crash their starship into Azeroth and joined the Alliiance. That was not at all utterly stupid.
Or how about when they decided to ditch the faction warfare plotlines in AO and had aliens invade the planet. Never saw that one coming , for sure.
Or in DAoC where they keep finding new secret super powerfull races that no-one noticed before. Man that always makes so damn much sense. Especially the ones living in the sewers of freaking Camelot. I mean who ever goes to Camelot, no way anyone would have noticed them.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Wait, you mean you watched the movies and read the books? What was the point to watching the movies? You already know all the major players and you know how it ends . . . .
Hell, why the hell am I reading the books for the 4th time? I mean I already know the major players and I know how they end. I must be crazy . . .
Yeah..I don't know why I watched the movies after I had read the books. I already knew what happened. And guess what I even watched the movies again! I don't know what is wrong with me...and guess what I even enjoyed it!
Hey Aliens are the missing ingredient of LOTRO! That will help our subs
/sarcasm off
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Brandywine Global LFF chan "/joinchannel glff"
It amazes me that people like Green13 think that he knows everything about LotrO and can do a deep analyze of the game when he hasnt even got out of the the noob instance at lvl 6 (?)!
And since he claimed that story-driven games arent poplular.. lets look at :
AoC... have a very linear story where every character is a runaway slave with a memory loss who turns out to be The Choosen one who have to kill the evil wizard! The world and zones are far more linear than LotrOs
WAR... is seperated into chapters where you follow the story in a linear way.. The entire WAR campaing to siege the enemy city is pretty much a linear story..
Tabula Rasa.. Uses story instances and have a noob instace in the begnining just like LotrO
Chronicles of spellborn.. dont know much about it but seems very story-based
And speaking of WoW... we all know how the story there is going to end... There is a big bad boss in a raid dungeon and a group of people will kill him (Artharas is next..)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
Originally posted by jarish
Look, no one will have a large share of the market anymore, atleast not for a few years after WoW starts to die off. Large market share right now is 5%.
Or say a company like NCSoft and Guild Wars which has a 16% share actually.
Tobold discusses market shares
"But another meter shows that in total WoW makes 63% of all Amazon MMO sales, followed by Guild Wars with 16%, and everything else including LotRO, Age of Conan, and WAR at 5% or less."
But, as I have stated before, WAR is the game to watch starting next month. This may be the game to pull the market share from WoW...then we will have some answers on what people really want in their game.
Just like these guys did not listen to their investors, and released the product the "people" wanted.
Vanguard
Tabula Rasa
Age Of Conan
Hellgate:London
To think investors have no say? I think you may want to wake up on that one.
I agree the game should stay PvE, but PvE only entertains so long. People usually need more of a challenge than an AI can provide. Unless Turbine can keep the "live" event system rolling, and invest time into unique quest lines and avoid the kill 10 x trap, then it may hold up.
For now, I still think all eyes are on WAR. It's success or failure will change the market drastically.
Time-warner must think that Turbine is doing a pretty good job if they are willing to give them 40 million in today's economic situation.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This comparison might have some slight relevance if it wasn't for the fact that LoTRO was already out and doing well financially when Time Warner invested in it . . .
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
I am not sure I understand your connotation here. I am crazy because I believe- an investor would like a say in the product they have invested in? I would definitely beg to differ.
You would be crazy to think a conglomerate as big as Time Warner (notorirous for having their say in many things...like for example throttling their Internet users bandwidth in P2P applications) would not want to say "Hey look at that company and their MMO, and how well it is doing. I notice it has this feature that YOU do not...why not implement that"
Turbine WILL change. And it could be for the better, but to blatantly think the investor is not going to try and force their hand is ludicrous.
Some people have no problem covering lack of knowledge and experience with arrogance and condescence - works in some areas of life, like politics
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is.
LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment.
If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.."
That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's.
And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say.
But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Maybe this is why Time Warner invested in Turbine?
"WESTWOOD, MA - July 31, 2008 - Turbine, Inc. announced today its partnership with Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment to distribute The Lord of the Rings Online™: Mines of Moria™ at retail in North America"
Just a wild guess
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Maybe this is why Time Warner invested in Turbine?
"WESTWOOD, MA - July 31, 2008 - Turbine, Inc. announced today its partnership with Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment to distribute The Lord of the Rings Online™: Mines of Moria™ at retail in North America"
Just a wild guess
Do you guys not read links? Ok...I apologize for that issue.
Let me try this...
"“Our investment in Turbine is an important addition to Time Warner's entertainment initiatives,” said Rachel Lam, Senior Vice President and Group Managing Director of Time Warner Investments. “Online interactive entertainment is a huge growth market and we are very excited about Turbine, its unique capabilities and the obvious opportunities that exist with our own broad portfolio of IP.”"
Kotaku
I read this to be more than "Can we distribute your game for you?"
As well, the REAL discussion with Turbine is the investment to help Turbine develop a NEW IP also. Now, yes, TWC may leave LOTRO alone and work with Turbine toward managing the new IP, but then this could pull developers away from LOTRO, DDO, etc.
Again, speculation. That is all we are doing is discussing maybe's here.
But, it still boils down to TWC wanting a piece of the pie.
Never said they did not. Just like Microsoft thought Sigil had an awesome idea in Vanguard. But, then what happened...they did not like the direction Sigil was going, and then took that funding away.
See how that works?
This is the exchange I was responding too. Time Warner Would be absolute tards to invest in a game that was already out for months that they didn't like the direction of. That is very different from supporting a game that is in development and losing confidence in the developers.
Your point has merit. But, you still blindly believe that the investor is not going to try and have a say, and that is where the disconnect is.
LOTRO has "ok' sales and an "ok" subscriber rate. But, people do not "invest" into any type of property without hoping to get some return on their investment.
If a company sees a way for their investment to make MORE money, they will ALWAYS try go this route. To think that Time Warner when they see that WAR has a major successful launch and pulls in numbers, that someone in that board room is not going..."Hey if LOTRO did this, we could double our return.."
That is what I mean by being blinded. Especially if those WAR numbers take scrips from LOTRO, which will be a guarantee. WAR will steal scrips from many MMO's.
And when an investor sees that loss, you bet they will have a say.
But, this is all speculation at this point. We will have to wait and see if PvP is the answer to taking WoW numbers...
Ironically enough I agree with your main point. Investors will indeed have some influence over the ongoing development of a property they have invested in. It's common sense. It's just that the "examples" you are using to support this contention (which again, I largely agree with) consist of completely invalid comparisons.
There is no reason to suppose that Time Warner doesn't like what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. They had months to see how the product turned out, how it was performing financially, and what direction Turbine is going with it. Then they decided to make an enormous investment in Turbine.
The example you use to try and make the point "well they can always change their minds" is of a company (MS) that invested in a property when it was nothing but ideas on paper. Sigil repeatedly failed to meet the development milestones that they and MS had agreed to, and MS finally got sick of it and pulled out. That is a totally different situation.
TW is much less likely to try and change the direction that Turbine is going with LoTRO. In the first place, their investment was much less speculative than the investment MS made in Sigil. And I'm not sure how much influence they could exert on the direction of LoTRO even if they wanted to, since the cash seemingly consisted of a signing bonus for a distribution deal for LoTRO and funding for an as yet unnanounced IP (as you pointed out above). The IP they are funding the development of, one the other hand, I'm sure they will have a lot of influence over.
If anyone could exert pressure on Turbine it would be the company that owns the IP they have licensed (Tolkien Enterprises). But so far they have been perfectly happy to accept the big bags of money in the mail from Turbine and have been pretty hands off. Maybe even too much so, honestly (see Runemaster...I'm skeptical from a lore perspective).
In any case, yes, it's perfectly possible that some investors could put a bunch bunch of pressure on Turbine and force them to make some random changes to the game. But there is no evidence that this is currently happening or will happen in the near future. All indications are that TW and Tolkien Enterprises are pretty happy with what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. But hey, who knows? We could all be smashed flat by a meteor later this afternoon too. But I'm not going to leave work early.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
If anyone could exert pressure on Turbine it would be the company that owns the IP they have licensed (Tolkien Enterprises). But so far they have been perfectly happy to accept the big bags of money in the mail from Turbine and have been pretty hands off. Maybe even too much so, honestly (see Runemaster...I'm skeptical from a lore perspective).
In any case, yes, it's perfectly possible that some investors could put a bunch bunch of pressure on Turbine and force them to make some random changes to the game. But there is no evidence that this is currently happening or will happen in the near future. All indications are that TW and Tolkien Enterprises are pretty happy with what Turbine has been doing with LoTRO. But hey, who knows? We could all be smashed flat by a meteor later this afternoon too. But I'm not going to leave work early.
I'm not sure I'd say all things are as peachy as you paint them, Especially between the IP holder and the developer.They are having major problems moving this game off shelves, It's on clearance all over . They sell it themselves for $10, That doesn't sound as if they're making big bags of money , More like they're desperate for even a coin purse (never a good thing for such a young product).
If they fail to move expansions as they have with boxes , You can bet that Tolkien Enterprises is going to start wondering what's holding this game back (it's definitely not the I.P). Turbine may please the customers they have , But they really need to do something different to gain new customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
FYI, I made it to my mid-teens a couple of times before I gave up on it.
What I saw in that time was the persistent gameworld changing as a result of quest progression through the use of separate instances. Is it really so surprising then that I expected the rest of the game to be the same, especially when that is precisely how the developers said the game was going to work?
I’ve heard that LOTRO uses instancing technology. What is it, and how is it used?
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future.
See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me!
That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release.
If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?!
Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
FYI, I made it to my mid-teens a couple of times before I gave up on it.
What I saw in that time was the persistent gameworld changing as a result of quest progression through the use of separate instances. Is it really so surprising then that I expected the rest of the game to be the same, especially when that is precisely how the developers said the game was going to work?
I’ve heard that LOTRO uses instancing technology. What is it, and how is it used?
We're using instancing in two basic ways in the game. As has become more common in other MMO's, instances place fellowships (parties) in an environment that is private to them, so we can craft a compelling adventure that will not be interrupted or interfered with by other players. We have also developed a more complex use of layered instancing, to "change the world" as part of special moments in the story. In layered instances, the player will encounter an area that during the course of a series of adventures will be forever altered in the "public" persistent world. For example, an attack on a town might result in the town being consumed in flames during a battle – returning to the town later, the player will discover the buildings are burnt to ashes. This will remain the open, public world from that point on for any player that had experienced those events in the game. We'll explain this exciting mode of gameplay in further detail in the future.
See, it's not that I'm claiming to know everything about LOTRO at all - I'm just naively believing and repeating what Turbine says about their own game. Silly me!
That particular statement isn't ancient either. It can still be found on many websites (eg. lotro.turbine.com) and seems to have been up to date as at three months prior to release.
If what you say is true and the game doesn't work this way - I'm stunned out of my socks! Did the developers drop a really bad idea and that they had been so vocal about and completely keep it under their hats, to the point of not even updating it on their own website?!
Or did they just do a really bad job of explaining whatever this layered instancing thing is. Notably, while they said they'd explain this feature in further detail 'in the future', they never got around to it. They've just dropped that sentence from this entry on their own site.
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
Ummm, did you read my post, click on any links, like, oh, I dunno, the one to the current LOTRO official game FAQ?
That entry is the one I quoted. So basically what you're saying is I'm silly for reading current game info from this game's official website and believing it?
I had no idea this particular forum could be this entertaining. I'm actually starting to feel like I'm getting some of my money's worth out of the game now!
Your wrong, there is only one town in a newbie instance that uses layered instancing. So far they haven't used the tech anywhere else. And honestly, trusting stuff that they said three months prior to release during closed beta as the current game is pretty silly. That's why they call it beta instead of release.
Ummm, did you read my post, click on any links, like, oh, I dunno, the one to the current LOTRO official game FAQ?
That entry is the one I quoted. So basically what you're saying is I'm silly for reading current game info from this game's official website and believing it?
I had no idea this particular forum could be this entertaining. I'm actually starting to feel like I'm getting some of my money's worth out of the game now!
My apologies. It you are correct, your utter ignorance of one of the basics of the game is founded on misinformation in the current FAQ rather than a beta FAQ. Honestly, the section that you quoted was so misleading that I assumed that it could not be from the current FAQ. Based on what you wrote (highlighted above in red, and I see now that I did misinterpret it), I assumed it must have been from the beta. Yes indeed, that is a out of date FAQ entry. Perhaps one of their webmasters should be shot.
Regardless, being completely ignorant of such a fundamental aspect of the gameplay in LoTRO doesn't give your opinions about it much weight.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Don't take my word for it - click here and see for yourself. The only change is that they've removed the final sentence which promises to release more details on this feature in the future.
I disagree. I know I do that a lot but, hear me out.
I'm quite happy to concede that I was wrong about what the game is. But I trusted the LOTRO official site's game information. So would other potential subscribers - and they'd have been just as misled as I was.
This particular feature was the reason I stopped playing after two weeks. I didn't even bother finishing up with my initial free four weeks because I hadn't seen anything spectacular enough in the game to overcome this enormous flaw.
This feature was seemingly abandoned in the late stages of beta. It seems to work just fine with the starting area, so it doesn't seem likely it would have been removed for technical reasons.
What if they removed it because it did what I said it would - fragment the player's sense of a persistent gameworld - and then forgot to publicise the fact?
It's given me a good laugh but.... you all are playing a game that other folk, who've read that FAQ on any number of websites, has no idea exists.
[edit] I submitted feedback via the LOTRO forums with advice that you all were pretty sure this FAQ entry was wrong.