May i add while we are comparing L2 to WoW that, if you wanna be part of anything big in WoW (arena, raids, etc...) you need to be top lvl and have good gear, no average/good arena team and/or raiding guild is gonna take you unless you meet these requirements, and to meet these requirements you first have to make your way to 70 which is actually quite easy, but then the grind starts, get reputation with factions to get the exalted items, endless grind of the same heroic instances for a chance of an epic item, and grind BGs for honor if your into arena pvp.
In L2 on the other hand you dont have to be lvl 76 to join a good guild, or to go on a siege, ofc people would like to have a lvl 76 player with S grade, but if you are active, friendly, commited to helping and like PVP a good guild will take you in and help you out, you will go to raid bosses, sieges, and even much higher hunting grounds even tho you can barely hit the mobs.
if the company would police all the botters and gold farmers this game would be amazing but they pretty much do nothing at all and don't seem to care. like some one else said there are the emu l2 servers and its not just the bonus exp rates most that play those is the fact that the people that run the server police them heavily
if the company would police all the botters and gold farmers this game would be amazing but they pretty much do nothing at all and don't seem to care. like some one else said there are the emu l2 servers and its not just the bonus exp rates most that play those is the fact that the people that run the server police them heavily
Yes but forgetting that:
- Anyone can go in there and spoil the fun, actually these servers are full of high lvl characters just running around killing everyone, because its free no one cares i can just make another account if i get banned.
- The server can go down at any one time without previous warning and your character wiped out ( if you actually commit to play the game thats kinda major).
- These servers accept donations and donators get special treatment I have seen everything from + 1000 top grade weapons, to merging all buffer into a main class making a "everything" class, those ppl dominate the game.
- Due to the nature of the emulator in can be hacked easily, and most of the private servers are full of exploits.
- You dont really get all the features on the retail, sure most of them try and have ppl that are commited to implement the features from retail but they are either different mechanics, or not implemented at all.
You may as well just play a different game, if you wanna play L2 you have to play Retail to enjoy it fully.
You are a delusional fanboi. And what is the use of PvPing at a low level, all of the alts and twinks you will be fighting will have OE'd weapons and sometimes armor and they will kill you in 1-3 shots (Nuker/Dagger/Archer). You obviously haven't tried to seige at the 6x levels (I have done this). You obviously haven't done mass PvP at those level when the competition was easily 10 levels over you. Maybe you will say to pick your battles, but rest assured that most clans with players those levels will refuse to PvP (saying they are "neutral") and let you go red on them - and then zerg you with a number of high level toons/friends in hopes that you will drop gear. That's not PvP (none of that is).
Lets see if we can dismantle some of the BS launched by "Ubah" and some of the others in this thread.
PVP at low levels sucks:
L2 is a "matured" game, like any that has been on the market for more than a year or two. Most of the "main" population is very high level (76+), and much of the lower level population (the real lowbies, below 50, lets say) are pretty much twinked out. How will you fare as a new player right now vs. a twink? Not well.
But wait, lets look at another game--WoW. WoW is also a matured game, and many of the lowbies you meet there are alts who are twinked to various degrees to speed leveling and enhance PVP. In fact, in WoW the lower BG brackets (teens, 20s, 30s, even into the 40s for some classes) are completely given over to twinks. Hell, there are twink GUILDS on eveyr server. As a new player, a twinked 19 rogue will likely 1-2 shot you in a BG. For that reason, most don't even bother with low level brackets. And why not? How long does it take to get to 50+? A week, less if you are hardcore about it? The same now applies in L2.
Additionally, you will see an influx of people w/ Gracia (how many remains to be seen, but I have seen more promising talk of new people playing for this expansion than every before). And now everyone will be able to easily afford top D and C grade gear (common items FTW, top D weapon/armor/jewels is about 130k total, top C is around 500k). And honestly, while there are some lowbie alts running around w/ +16 weapons, it isn't the epidemic you make it out to be).
So, this is a common theme in MMOs.
PVP short of S-Grade (60-76) sucks:
So lets take a WoW example again. You are level 65, in shitty blues and greens, starting to grind honor for your S2 epics in BGs. You encounter a hunter. He's been 70 for over a year, he's in S3 / S4 + raid gear, and has the legendary KJ bow. Who wins, and how fast?
Yeah. It will take you several months to hit 70, grind your honor for S2 gear, get into an arena team, practice and win arena games to get S3 / S4 gear, and raid for those pieces / weapons / trinkets that are great for PVP. Same goes for L2. It may take you considerably longer to level to 76 and get S-Grade, but there really isn't a gear grind (if you can't wait / work for it, buy adena, many people do).
Again, you are complaining about a constant in MMOs that is really no different in L2.
Sieges short of S-Grade (60-76) suck:
The above largely applies here. If you are a melee class, and have to close distance to fight somebody, you will have a rough time. If you are ranged, you can stick with a blob of players and have about the same survivability as a 61 in a 61-70 WoW AV. Also, as a lowbie you are an easy target, but much less threatening than that 79 OL over there chain-healing his clans HP / CP and sealing the shit out of the defenders. If you are foolish and run around alone you will die. Alot.
Additionally, remember that in mass PVP both sides will have at least one person calling targets. If you are primaried, you are going to die, regardless of who you are. The game doesn't matter. You can be a 50m SP char in EVE, flying a faction BS with faction gear that will smoke any 3 ships it encounters alone--but you are going to lose that thing in a few seconds when a fleet of 20+ ships opens up on you.
One more, a common theme in MMOs.
Other comments:
PVP is unbalanced: Wow, i've never heard that about another MMO before. Welcome to PVP. At least half of it is complaining about class balance on forums.
Leveling requires a buffer, or alot of downtime: This used to be 100% correct. However, herb drops have been in the game for some time and considerably reduce hte need to rest. In CT2, newbie buffs will extend to 62. A buffer is still nice, and for somebody who is more than a casual player, a second buffer account really can help at 62+ if you are wanting to level solo. L2 is much more heavily dependent on buffs than any other game I know.
I have leveled an HE / Sag with one buffer (prophet) and five buffers (prophet, SE, EE, BD, SWS...really!) Was it faster with 5? Yes, but it was also a gigantic pain in the ass. Worth it? IMO, not really. I don't plan on doing that again, 2-boxing is enough for me.
If you are using newbie buffs below 62, or if you have a buffer / healer, and if you are hunting in an area w/ appropriate herb drops, you can have little to no downtime. In CT2 even classes that used to be effectively non-soloable (healers, for example) will have decent nuking skills. Complaining about this issue is usually done by people who last played years ago and haven't a clue what has changed.
Servers aren't populated enough: Open transfers really savaged some servers. The merges helped, but some are either still low-population, are especially filled with bots, or have an unpleasant clan environment. Solution: pick a good server. I'm going to be making characters on Phoenix this Tuesday. Bartz seems to have a healthy population, as do the Euro Servers. Read the sticky posts in the recruitment section of the official forums to get an idea of what the server may be like.
Players BSOE, bot, buy adena, etc: OMG, people cheat or run away! Shocking. I don't know of another game where that happens.
Seriously though, adena buying is fairly epidemic given that gear can be so expensive. Bots, however, can be viewed in 2 ways: crying about them, or taking advantage of them. I can't count how many trains i've run on farmer bot parties and collected gear, tons of seal stones, SS, and other items. In fact, i've caused them so much trouble that often they would buff me anytime i wanted just so i would leave them alone.
It's too hard, too much of a grind, too expensive, etc: Umm...then its not for you? Try it and find out.
You are indeed absolutely right, I agree, and on your wow comparison you dont even need to go that low a lvl 69 player on a BG will get his ass handed to him 90% of the time, 99% of the players will have at least season 1, that with no lvl 70 skills, and running around in blues greens will almost 100% make you just a free kill. (Plz refrain from posting those leet videos with a lvl 20 beating a 60 or whatever YOU ARE NOT THAT PERSON , there is like 1 in every 1000 that can achieve such things on a regular basis).
When taken out of Lineage 2 context, I'd find both replies about the most accurate comparison/description of how any MMO works, that is out there. I'll continue with Eve so I can logoff and still level up so to speak, at the same time
Yep that is true for most mmo's, if you join later, chances are your gonna skip most of the beginning content.
Lower lvl pvp , amonst other things only really work in the first year or so of the game, then everyone gets higher lvl and lower lvls become meaningless and ppl just cruise throught to get to the higher lvls.
EVE is quite a good example where you can train your skills offline, a player starting now is Years away from the high end, hell even players that started a year ago are years behind.
Not to hijack the thread, but if a newb in Eve focuses on specializing in one area then he can become practically as effective at that one thing as anyone else within a few months. But if you spread your skills out then you will never be as powerful as longtime players in anything.
My point remains, the person is still years behind a high end player, sure one thing "almost" as good, but its not as good, and that player will have "alot" of things very good, so any new player is Years behind.
Comments
May i add while we are comparing L2 to WoW that, if you wanna be part of anything big in WoW (arena, raids, etc...) you need to be top lvl and have good gear, no average/good arena team and/or raiding guild is gonna take you unless you meet these requirements, and to meet these requirements you first have to make your way to 70 which is actually quite easy, but then the grind starts, get reputation with factions to get the exalted items, endless grind of the same heroic instances for a chance of an epic item, and grind BGs for honor if your into arena pvp.
In L2 on the other hand you dont have to be lvl 76 to join a good guild, or to go on a siege, ofc people would like to have a lvl 76 player with S grade, but if you are active, friendly, commited to helping and like PVP a good guild will take you in and help you out, you will go to raid bosses, sieges, and even much higher hunting grounds even tho you can barely hit the mobs.
Hey Torak. What game is your profile picture from???
if the company would police all the botters and gold farmers this game would be amazing but they pretty much do nothing at all and don't seem to care. like some one else said there are the emu l2 servers and its not just the bonus exp rates most that play those is the fact that the people that run the server police them heavily
Yes but forgetting that:
- Anyone can go in there and spoil the fun, actually these servers are full of high lvl characters just running around killing everyone, because its free no one cares i can just make another account if i get banned.
- The server can go down at any one time without previous warning and your character wiped out ( if you actually commit to play the game thats kinda major).
- These servers accept donations and donators get special treatment I have seen everything from + 1000 top grade weapons, to merging all buffer into a main class making a "everything" class, those ppl dominate the game.
- Due to the nature of the emulator in can be hacked easily, and most of the private servers are full of exploits.
- You dont really get all the features on the retail, sure most of them try and have ppl that are commited to implement the features from retail but they are either different mechanics, or not implemented at all.
You may as well just play a different game, if you wanna play L2 you have to play Retail to enjoy it fully.
Lets see if we can dismantle some of the BS launched by "Ubah" and some of the others in this thread.
PVP at low levels sucks:
L2 is a "matured" game, like any that has been on the market for more than a year or two. Most of the "main" population is very high level (76+), and much of the lower level population (the real lowbies, below 50, lets say) are pretty much twinked out. How will you fare as a new player right now vs. a twink? Not well.
But wait, lets look at another game--WoW. WoW is also a matured game, and many of the lowbies you meet there are alts who are twinked to various degrees to speed leveling and enhance PVP. In fact, in WoW the lower BG brackets (teens, 20s, 30s, even into the 40s for some classes) are completely given over to twinks. Hell, there are twink GUILDS on eveyr server. As a new player, a twinked 19 rogue will likely 1-2 shot you in a BG. For that reason, most don't even bother with low level brackets. And why not? How long does it take to get to 50+? A week, less if you are hardcore about it? The same now applies in L2.
Additionally, you will see an influx of people w/ Gracia (how many remains to be seen, but I have seen more promising talk of new people playing for this expansion than every before). And now everyone will be able to easily afford top D and C grade gear (common items FTW, top D weapon/armor/jewels is about 130k total, top C is around 500k). And honestly, while there are some lowbie alts running around w/ +16 weapons, it isn't the epidemic you make it out to be).
So, this is a common theme in MMOs.
PVP short of S-Grade (60-76) sucks:
So lets take a WoW example again. You are level 65, in shitty blues and greens, starting to grind honor for your S2 epics in BGs. You encounter a hunter. He's been 70 for over a year, he's in S3 / S4 + raid gear, and has the legendary KJ bow. Who wins, and how fast?
Yeah. It will take you several months to hit 70, grind your honor for S2 gear, get into an arena team, practice and win arena games to get S3 / S4 gear, and raid for those pieces / weapons / trinkets that are great for PVP. Same goes for L2. It may take you considerably longer to level to 76 and get S-Grade, but there really isn't a gear grind (if you can't wait / work for it, buy adena, many people do).
Again, you are complaining about a constant in MMOs that is really no different in L2.
Sieges short of S-Grade (60-76) suck:
The above largely applies here. If you are a melee class, and have to close distance to fight somebody, you will have a rough time. If you are ranged, you can stick with a blob of players and have about the same survivability as a 61 in a 61-70 WoW AV. Also, as a lowbie you are an easy target, but much less threatening than that 79 OL over there chain-healing his clans HP / CP and sealing the shit out of the defenders. If you are foolish and run around alone you will die. Alot.
Additionally, remember that in mass PVP both sides will have at least one person calling targets. If you are primaried, you are going to die, regardless of who you are. The game doesn't matter. You can be a 50m SP char in EVE, flying a faction BS with faction gear that will smoke any 3 ships it encounters alone--but you are going to lose that thing in a few seconds when a fleet of 20+ ships opens up on you.
One more, a common theme in MMOs.
Other comments:
PVP is unbalanced: Wow, i've never heard that about another MMO before. Welcome to PVP. At least half of it is complaining about class balance on forums.
Leveling requires a buffer, or alot of downtime: This used to be 100% correct. However, herb drops have been in the game for some time and considerably reduce hte need to rest. In CT2, newbie buffs will extend to 62. A buffer is still nice, and for somebody who is more than a casual player, a second buffer account really can help at 62+ if you are wanting to level solo. L2 is much more heavily dependent on buffs than any other game I know.
I have leveled an HE / Sag with one buffer (prophet) and five buffers (prophet, SE, EE, BD, SWS...really!) Was it faster with 5? Yes, but it was also a gigantic pain in the ass. Worth it? IMO, not really. I don't plan on doing that again, 2-boxing is enough for me.
If you are using newbie buffs below 62, or if you have a buffer / healer, and if you are hunting in an area w/ appropriate herb drops, you can have little to no downtime. In CT2 even classes that used to be effectively non-soloable (healers, for example) will have decent nuking skills. Complaining about this issue is usually done by people who last played years ago and haven't a clue what has changed.
Servers aren't populated enough: Open transfers really savaged some servers. The merges helped, but some are either still low-population, are especially filled with bots, or have an unpleasant clan environment. Solution: pick a good server. I'm going to be making characters on Phoenix this Tuesday. Bartz seems to have a healthy population, as do the Euro Servers. Read the sticky posts in the recruitment section of the official forums to get an idea of what the server may be like.
Players BSOE, bot, buy adena, etc: OMG, people cheat or run away! Shocking. I don't know of another game where that happens.
Seriously though, adena buying is fairly epidemic given that gear can be so expensive. Bots, however, can be viewed in 2 ways: crying about them, or taking advantage of them. I can't count how many trains i've run on farmer bot parties and collected gear, tons of seal stones, SS, and other items. In fact, i've caused them so much trouble that often they would buff me anytime i wanted just so i would leave them alone.
It's too hard, too much of a grind, too expensive, etc: Umm...then its not for you? Try it and find out.
You are indeed absolutely right, I agree, and on your wow comparison you dont even need to go that low a lvl 69 player on a BG will get his ass handed to him 90% of the time, 99% of the players will have at least season 1, that with no lvl 70 skills, and running around in blues greens will almost 100% make you just a free kill. (Plz refrain from posting those leet videos with a lvl 20 beating a 60 or whatever YOU ARE NOT THAT PERSON , there is like 1 in every 1000 that can achieve such things on a regular basis).
When taken out of Lineage 2 context, I'd find both replies about the most accurate comparison/description of how any MMO works, that is out there. I'll continue with Eve so I can logoff and still level up so to speak, at the same time
/rant
Yep that is true for most mmo's, if you join later, chances are your gonna skip most of the beginning content.
Lower lvl pvp , amonst other things only really work in the first year or so of the game, then everyone gets higher lvl and lower lvls become meaningless and ppl just cruise throught to get to the higher lvls.
EVE is quite a good example where you can train your skills offline, a player starting now is Years away from the high end, hell even players that started a year ago are years behind.
Not to hijack the thread, but if a newb in Eve focuses on specializing in one area then he can become practically as effective at that one thing as anyone else within a few months. But if you spread your skills out then you will never be as powerful as longtime players in anything.
My point remains, the person is still years behind a high end player, sure one thing "almost" as good, but its not as good, and that player will have "alot" of things very good, so any new player is Years behind.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. And I meant something else too =P