Player house like crafting and all the other non combat elements in mmo add depth. Just because you like your mmos as deep as a mud puddle doesn't mean the rest of us do.
[quote][i]Originally posted by nariusseldon[/i] [b]1) i have nothing against housing except if developers need to put resources in it, i woudl rather have them use the same resource for quests, zones, talents .... [/b][/quote]
Please god go play something other then wow before you open your trap again!!
Wowheads like you make me sick.
No damn idea about any other system but wow and you spout nonsense like you have a clue.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Player-housing can be both good and bad, the only game I've ever played that came close to doing it right was UO, but I agree with the other poster that said it would be ideal if the houses were already existing in the game and the players could rent, that would take lag and rushing for house spots and camping for idocs out of the picture.
When I play an mmorpg I want to focus on an attainable goal, maybe it's being on the top of a ladder, maybe it's being the archlord, but those two are not attainable to me because I'm just a casual player, if there were a lot of houses, this would be an easier goal to reach.
The ideal concept for player-housing in an mmorpg to me would be have the houses serving a purpose in the game, not only helping your own character but somehow helping other players, causing it to be a natural cycle in the game, like peasant, knight, warlord, home-owning sage, and ascended avatar. I think such a system would be beyond perfect but I've yet to see it ever come to light in any game I've ever played. If I had a billion dollars, after the donating and whatnot I'd comission this mmorpg and it would be free to play.
Originally posted by Soldier420 Go play The Sims. I honestly don't see why people would want to decorate a house, that has no further purpose than to be looked at.
Simply because you don't see why people would do it doesn't mean it's not a valid and desirable activity.
I can see guild hideouts, but player housing would just take up too much time/resources. Having 10,000 single houses though out the game map would ruin the world scenery. Now you say it adds more depth... Well then let's make it realistic... And allow houses to be looted, burned down and then pee on the ashes. The current system of major cities and towns having banks/career shops works fine.
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
I actually quit WoW 10months ago... Though I'd rather play it than EQ2 which has been a PoS from the start.
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
I actually quit WoW 10months ago... Though I'd rather play it than EQ2 which has been a PoS from the start.
As someone who loved WoW played it almost 4 years ( started in the closed beta) but at the same time I played EQ2. When my available time for game was cut back I had to leave one. I loved both for different reasons. When it came down to it WoW got cancelled not becasue it was a "PoS" but because EQ2 has a lot more to do, much more. EQ2 is far from a "PoS". I wonder if you have ever really played it. If you did you sure did not commit to really trying it and exploring it. EQ2 is far from perfect but it is the deepest mmo out at the moment in my opinion. EQ2 has really good housing but I agree that SWG had the best housing in any mmo I have played.
I've never seen the need for housing, but some people like it.
I'd put it way down the list of features to add to an MMORPG. Nice to give it t the players if you can, but not necessary.
You definitely can't do housing anywhere you want to put it. It takes up to many resources. But, seems like you could put it in cities. Most cities have a ton of buildings you can't even enter that are just there for looks.
I've heard a number of people state player housing is a "who care's" feature. I disagree with this sentiment. Using SWG as an example, since that was my experience with player housing, it served many purposes.
Naturally, it is a status symbol. Much like wearing high-end gear in WoW, your house serves to display your "trophies".
Storage. Plain and simple and already stated numerous times.
Player vendor location. In SWG, I could place my vendors in my house and list them on the planetary map.
Player Cities. What is a city without structures? Player cities can go a long way toward immersion assuming other game mechanics support that amount of openness.
Crafting mechanics. In SWG you could have personal crafting stations that gave you bonuses to crafting (if I recall correctly). These could only be placed in player or city structures.
"The SIMs effect". Sometimes I don't feel like going out and killing something or sitting there and crafting things. It's nice when a game can offer an activity beyond the typical build it or kill it.
That's just a few ideas from my experience. As silly as it might seem to some, I enjoyed decorating my house and I liked the idea that others might wander in and see my little corner of the world. However, it is important to note that player housing is really only useful in certain types of games. Housing is not a one-size fits all feature.
Another question I would ask in regards to the OP, is why shouldn't we encourag ehousing in more games? Housing is a feature and, becuase some people only see SIMS-like value in it, I think developers should look at what could be done with housing. It is an idea that is just a starting point and, with a little creative thinking, might be an interesting addition to many games. Why limit it to what you perceive instead of thinking about what it could be?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Go play The Sims. I honestly don't see why people would want to decorate a house, that has no further purpose than to be looked at.
It's a different style of game. From the way you speak, you must be a guy that plays MMO mostly for RAIDS/LOOT. Many others like me play for immersion and community.
Player houses generates villages, cities, gatherings, micro community and such. Now in a game like SWG (Pre-CU), Anyone that came in our city (Revena) knew that my guild was not just a little random bunch of people. We had 12 faction bases, all the services, some of the best shops on the server and of course alot of PVP.
No matter what you may think, as a guild we looked great and having 5 dedicated players to home decorating made our city even look better. Every house was well decorated.
It didn't stop us from doing raids and such.
It's really just a different style of play.. it's more community oriented then greed/loot/raids
I don't understand why some people feel more connected when they have their own house in-game. I've played UO and EQ2 and having my own space made me feel less connected. as if I was isolated from the rest of the game. But that's just my me, I wouldn't say no housing UNLESS it's done randomly and I have to walk through a player-made maze of crappy structures just to get into town and do what I need to. Then it's annoying. I was thinking though, that to make housing slightly more interesting, you could have the housing exist already in-game built in the towns. Premium spots near the market cost more than tiny 1 room shacks on the outskirts. With new expansions, you could introduce more real estate, which would induce more people to buy the expansion. Also it would allow for new players a chance to buy. Problems would include limiting some people from buying an entire town and jacking the rates up and such. maybe a limit to personal ownership and then if you raise a brokering skill, then you can own more properties or something. Kinda like how trading skills in Eve allow you to have more open orders. Anyhow, just a thought. But if it was more orderly I wouldn't ind so much.
"Anyhow, just a thought. But if it was more orderly I wouldn't ind so much."
You're right about that, I think.
Housing is a cool feature. In old UO, before ICQ and other OOC communications were commonly used, players mostly communicated with only those around them in the game. As a result, when they logged into the game, they went to either the bank or their guild house (usually a bigger structure that only the cooperation of a guild could afford) to meet up with their in game friends. Housing also was the center of allot of merchant activity, and also player run events such as Roleplay, special trade events, tournaments, etc., as well as centers for player efforts such as player run taverns and libraries (in UO you could write your own books, and even copy out of game stuff and past it in books).
But a big drawback was housing being spread out all over the landscape. It seems to me that making a game where it's desireable to build houses in or near a city would be good. Make them part of the city. Your idea of existing structures inside cities is also good. I'd like to see a combination. But I'd also like to see a few "mage towers" out in the wilds, that sort of thing. But making a game where it's desired by most players to build near cities, yet allow a few to build away from cities with some risk of some kind, isn't going to happen in todays "no loss" thinking. Space is also a key problem.
Sometimes in the end of long questlines you get a nice trophy for your house. Its some kind of souvenir. In boring games like wow you get a weapon or a helmet, you wear it, you get another one and sell your old. In EQ2 those trophies last forever. I've a carpet in my house (for example), that brings me to the shimmering citadel (on RO, first addon). Its just nice )
I'm fine with instanced housing like in EQ2. Sometimes in the end of long questlines you get a nice trophy for your house. Its some kind of souvenir. In boring games like wow you get a weapon or a helmet, you wear it, you get another one and sell your old. In EQ2 those trophies last forever. I've a carpet in my house (for example), that brings me to the shimmering citadel (on RO, first addon). Its just nice )
This was similar to the instanced housing in Final Fantasy XI. (Just having some furniture at all was great, since the prices were always so high.) The only change I wish Square Enix had made to Final Fantasy XI's player housing is that they really should have allowed other players to be invited to your house.
I *love* having player housing, I don't see how someone could be against it. The simple thing to do if you didn't like the option, would be to ignore it completely. It's not as if it's a major priority anyway in most games that do already have it.
I prefer housing the way it's done in Horizons or CoH.
In Horizons your given a plot of land, there is about 40 different housing styles, fountains, trees, walkways, silos, walls. Design the plot however you want. Everyone can see it. This does create lag though
In CoH it is instanced, so you can't see the outside but the inside is completely customizable. Put a room here, or there, or wherever you want.
Lotro would be ok because you can see the outside but as I understand it you are really limited to the number of options available. But because the town is instanced no lag. So maybe a combination of Horizons and Lotro where the town is instanced but your plot is completely customizable.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Don't tell me what game to play, I'll play any game I want to. if I want to solo, I'll solo...if I want housing, I'll have housing (for the MMOs that have it)...I'll play and do what I want in a MMO/game. Thanks, for the advice...but, I won't take it. I would much rather play how I wish then have someone telling me how to.
Don't tell me what game to play, I'll play any game I want to. if I want to solo, I'll solo...if I want housing, I'll have housing (for the MMOs that have it)...I'll play and do what I want in a MMO/game. Thanks, for the advice...but, I won't take it. I would much rather play how I wish then have someone telling me how to.
no
Your short responses and failure to actually respond and discuss shows that this truly is a troll post.
Many people love housing, there are tons of reasons for it. Considering the first MMORPG, UO, had player housing I'd say that it's just as much a key MMORPG feature as anything else.
Go play The Sims. I honestly don't see why people would want to decorate a house, that has no further purpose than to be looked at.
Player housing these days is more about item storage/hoarding. What do you expect people to do with all the items they don't want to get rid of on their 10 accounts when all bank slots are full?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
The whole point in a MMORPG is to play in an ever changing ongoing world with other players. Your supposed to role play your character. Is your character not supposed to sleep anywhere? Housing also gives you extra stuff to do as well as store goods. I remember in UO having so much fun wandering the near by forests chopping trees for wood to build furniture for my house and stumbling upon wandering orc groups. Once jumped by the orcs you had to choose to leave behind your heavy wood or fight the orcs. Usually you had to run because trade characters usually didn't have the fighting skills needed.
That adds immersiveness to the game world. Thats what a MMORPG is supposed to be like, not a multiplayer action game where all you do is kill stuff repeatedly.
Don't tell me what game to play, I'll play any game I want to. if I want to solo, I'll solo...if I want housing, I'll have housing (for the MMOs that have it)...I'll play and do what I want in a MMO/game. Thanks, for the advice...but, I won't take it. I would much rather play how I wish then have someone telling me how to.
no
Your short responses and failure to actually respond and discuss shows that this truly is a troll post.
Many people love housing, there are tons of reasons for it. Considering the first MMORPG, UO, had player housing I'd say that it's just as much a key MMORPG feature as anything else.
I have to agree based on the OP response. It started as nothing more then a troll and the OP really does not care either way. However "The threads" ( I call posters "The Threads" one of my weird things) took it over and there has been a great discussion on housing sans the OP. Not really his thread anymore.
Some form of housing is a must for me to play any mmo. Like many here have pointed out housing offers different thing for different people. From nothing more then storage to a very real creative outlet. Why would anyone have a problem with that. I have never ever in any mmo seen forced housing or housing that effected game play to a point that not having it put you at a disadvantge. You don't like housing don't get it. Especially when it comes to instance housing why would you care? 100's of empty houses ruining the view on Naboo can be a problem but instance housing effects the housing "haters" in no way at all.
I say houses for everyone! You say you don't want one well to bad I will cram it down your throat. Hmmm I never really have heard that in any mmo. So what's the problem? Let us enjoy our houses and those that do not want one are free to sleep on my porch but remember this, the BABES are inside!
I don't have a problem with housing as long it doesn't ruin the world scenery or take away from more important things... such as dungeons, pvp, and etc. I could careless about housing in MMORPGs. I'm more focus on polished up pve and pvp content. The over dramatic posters in this thread is hilarious.
Comments
Player house like crafting and all the other non combat elements in mmo add depth. Just because you like your mmos as deep as a mud puddle doesn't mean the rest of us do.
[quote][i]Originally posted by nariusseldon[/i] [b]1) i have nothing against housing except if developers need to put resources in it, i woudl rather have them use the same resource for quests, zones, talents .... [/b][/quote]
Please god go play something other then wow before you open your trap again!!
Wowheads like you make me sick.
No damn idea about any other system but wow and you spout nonsense like you have a clue.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Player-housing can be both good and bad, the only game I've ever played that came close to doing it right was UO, but I agree with the other poster that said it would be ideal if the houses were already existing in the game and the players could rent, that would take lag and rushing for house spots and camping for idocs out of the picture.
When I play an mmorpg I want to focus on an attainable goal, maybe it's being on the top of a ladder, maybe it's being the archlord, but those two are not attainable to me because I'm just a casual player, if there were a lot of houses, this would be an easier goal to reach.
The ideal concept for player-housing in an mmorpg to me would be have the houses serving a purpose in the game, not only helping your own character but somehow helping other players, causing it to be a natural cycle in the game, like peasant, knight, warlord, home-owning sage, and ascended avatar. I think such a system would be beyond perfect but I've yet to see it ever come to light in any game I've ever played. If I had a billion dollars, after the donating and whatnot I'd comission this mmorpg and it would be free to play.
--- Razimus
Simply because you don't see why people would do it doesn't mean it's not a valid and desirable activity.
I can see guild hideouts, but player housing would just take up too much time/resources. Having 10,000 single houses though out the game map would ruin the world scenery. Now you say it adds more depth... Well then let's make it realistic... And allow houses to be looted, burned down and then pee on the ashes. The current system of major cities and towns having banks/career shops works fine.
Pats let Manning win.
player housing worked in SWG just fine. In UO it was ..... well anybody here who played UO back at its peak would know that there were no clear spaces ...... just ..... houses ...... forrests of houses .....
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
how many current subs does SWG have?
Pats let Manning win.
Lost me at "mmmkay".
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
I actually quit WoW 10months ago... Though I'd rather play it than EQ2 which has been a PoS from the start.
Pats let Manning win.
how many current subs does SWG have?
currently, my guess would be around 50-75k. The housing is the only untouched system in SWG i think. It is also the best system ive ever seen.
Dont try to persuade him. For a wower, everything wow has is a must and all wow doesnt have is needless
I actually quit WoW 10months ago... Though I'd rather play it than EQ2 which has been a PoS from the start.
As someone who loved WoW played it almost 4 years ( started in the closed beta) but at the same time I played EQ2. When my available time for game was cut back I had to leave one. I loved both for different reasons. When it came down to it WoW got cancelled not becasue it was a "PoS" but because EQ2 has a lot more to do, much more. EQ2 is far from a "PoS". I wonder if you have ever really played it. If you did you sure did not commit to really trying it and exploring it. EQ2 is far from perfect but it is the deepest mmo out at the moment in my opinion. EQ2 has really good housing but I agree that SWG had the best housing in any mmo I have played.
I've never seen the need for housing, but some people like it.
I'd put it way down the list of features to add to an MMORPG. Nice to give it t the players if you can, but not necessary.
You definitely can't do housing anywhere you want to put it. It takes up to many resources. But, seems like you could put it in cities. Most cities have a ton of buildings you can't even enter that are just there for looks.
I've heard a number of people state player housing is a "who care's" feature. I disagree with this sentiment. Using SWG as an example, since that was my experience with player housing, it served many purposes.
That's just a few ideas from my experience. As silly as it might seem to some, I enjoyed decorating my house and I liked the idea that others might wander in and see my little corner of the world. However, it is important to note that player housing is really only useful in certain types of games. Housing is not a one-size fits all feature.
Another question I would ask in regards to the OP, is why shouldn't we encourag ehousing in more games? Housing is a feature and, becuase some people only see SIMS-like value in it, I think developers should look at what could be done with housing. It is an idea that is just a starting point and, with a little creative thinking, might be an interesting addition to many games. Why limit it to what you perceive instead of thinking about what it could be?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
It's a different style of game. From the way you speak, you must be a guy that plays MMO mostly for RAIDS/LOOT. Many others like me play for immersion and community.
Player houses generates villages, cities, gatherings, micro community and such. Now in a game like SWG (Pre-CU), Anyone that came in our city (Revena) knew that my guild was not just a little random bunch of people. We had 12 faction bases, all the services, some of the best shops on the server and of course alot of PVP.
No matter what you may think, as a guild we looked great and having 5 dedicated players to home decorating made our city even look better. Every house was well decorated.
It didn't stop us from doing raids and such.
It's really just a different style of play.. it's more community oriented then greed/loot/raids
"Anyhow, just a thought. But if it was more orderly I wouldn't ind so much."
You're right about that, I think.
Housing is a cool feature. In old UO, before ICQ and other OOC communications were commonly used, players mostly communicated with only those around them in the game. As a result, when they logged into the game, they went to either the bank or their guild house (usually a bigger structure that only the cooperation of a guild could afford) to meet up with their in game friends. Housing also was the center of allot of merchant activity, and also player run events such as Roleplay, special trade events, tournaments, etc., as well as centers for player efforts such as player run taverns and libraries (in UO you could write your own books, and even copy out of game stuff and past it in books).
But a big drawback was housing being spread out all over the landscape. It seems to me that making a game where it's desireable to build houses in or near a city would be good. Make them part of the city. Your idea of existing structures inside cities is also good. I'd like to see a combination. But I'd also like to see a few "mage towers" out in the wilds, that sort of thing. But making a game where it's desired by most players to build near cities, yet allow a few to build away from cities with some risk of some kind, isn't going to happen in todays "no loss" thinking. Space is also a key problem.
Once upon a time....
I'm fine with instanced housing like in EQ2.
Sometimes in the end of long questlines you get a nice trophy for your house. Its some kind of souvenir. In boring games like wow you get a weapon or a helmet, you wear it, you get another one and sell your old. In EQ2 those trophies last forever. I've a carpet in my house (for example), that brings me to the shimmering citadel (on RO, first addon). Its just nice )
This was similar to the instanced housing in Final Fantasy XI. (Just having some furniture at all was great, since the prices were always so high.) The only change I wish Square Enix had made to Final Fantasy XI's player housing is that they really should have allowed other players to be invited to your house.
I *love*
having player housing, I don't see how someone could be against it. The simple thing to do if you didn't like the option, would be to ignore it completely. It's not as if it's a major priority anyway in most games that do already have it.
I prefer housing the way it's done in Horizons or CoH.
In Horizons your given a plot of land, there is about 40 different housing styles, fountains, trees, walkways, silos, walls. Design the plot however you want. Everyone can see it. This does create lag though
In CoH it is instanced, so you can't see the outside but the inside is completely customizable. Put a room here, or there, or wherever you want.
Lotro would be ok because you can see the outside but as I understand it you are really limited to the number of options available. But because the town is instanced no lag. So maybe a combination of Horizons and Lotro where the town is instanced but your plot is completely customizable.
Venge Sunsoar
no
Pats let Manning win.
no
Your short responses and failure to actually respond and discuss shows that this truly is a troll post.
Many people love housing, there are tons of reasons for it. Considering the first MMORPG, UO, had player housing I'd say that it's just as much a key MMORPG feature as anything else.
-------------------------
Player housing these days is more about item storage/hoarding. What do you expect people to do with all the items they don't want to get rid of on their 10 accounts when all bank slots are full?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
That adds immersiveness to the game world. Thats what a MMORPG is supposed to be like, not a multiplayer action game where all you do is kill stuff repeatedly.
no
Your short responses and failure to actually respond and discuss shows that this truly is a troll post.
Many people love housing, there are tons of reasons for it. Considering the first MMORPG, UO, had player housing I'd say that it's just as much a key MMORPG feature as anything else.
I have to agree based on the OP response. It started as nothing more then a troll and the OP really does not care either way. However "The threads" ( I call posters "The Threads" one of my weird things) took it over and there has been a great discussion on housing sans the OP. Not really his thread anymore.
Some form of housing is a must for me to play any mmo. Like many here have pointed out housing offers different thing for different people. From nothing more then storage to a very real creative outlet. Why would anyone have a problem with that. I have never ever in any mmo seen forced housing or housing that effected game play to a point that not having it put you at a disadvantge. You don't like housing don't get it. Especially when it comes to instance housing why would you care? 100's of empty houses ruining the view on Naboo can be a problem but instance housing effects the housing "haters" in no way at all.
I say houses for everyone! You say you don't want one well to bad I will cram it down your throat. Hmmm I never really have heard that in any mmo. So what's the problem? Let us enjoy our houses and those that do not want one are free to sleep on my porch but remember this, the BABES are inside!
I don't have a problem with housing as long it doesn't ruin the world scenery or take away from more important things... such as dungeons, pvp, and etc. I could careless about housing in MMORPGs. I'm more focus on polished up pve and pvp content. The over dramatic posters in this thread is hilarious.
Pats let Manning win.