Aren't the current BGs using the same ideas from FPSs right now? AV is pretty deep with lots of tactics when people actually care. Just because people don't really care about wining, doesn't mean the scenario doesn't require strategy. If the players don't give a crap, the players don't give a crap. Nothing Blizzard can do. When most people give up as soon as the enemy caps 1 node in AB, what are you supposed to do. Losers give up easy. Basketball doesn't require strategy either when one team just lets the other team score over and over again, sitting down twidling their thumbs or running in circles.
Sounds like someone was never on a premade against another premade.
This is why i'm not coming back to WoW, it's just stagnant with the same battlegrounds that isn't designed with skill and tactics in mind. If they were smart, they would hire some talented FPS mappers, ones that actually know how to design a Player versus Player experience.
You're smarter than Blizzard, then? And yet you want FPS style maps in a fantasy roleplaying game. I mean it's obvious Blizzard need your help... the battlegrounds are so deserted these days, and the game is selling so badly... They obviously need your smarts to fix the terrible wrongs with the game.
Oh that was sarcasm! Har har.
Of course you're going to tell us now the game that does it better.... Unreleased games doomed to dissapoint like every other release since WoW, do not count btw, trust me on this
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
This is why i'm not coming back to WoW, it's just stagnant with the same battlegrounds that isn't designed with skill and tactics in mind. If they were smart, they would hire some talented FPS mappers, ones that actually know how to design a Player versus Player experience.
You're smarter than Blizzard, then?
I never said i was smarter. Work on your straw mans though. It seems i should have articulated my post more clearly so you could understand me better.
Blizzard would be smart to keep hold of their current players who are tiresome of the same Battlegrounds, and hire some outside map makers, in other genres, who have experience in the PvP field.
And yet you want FPS style maps in a fantasy roleplaying game.
CTF (WSG), Assault (AV), Capture & Hold (AB), 2v2/5v5 (Arena) are all FPS style maps. Blizzard hasn't innovated anything here, so the genre of these maps isn't an issue.
I mean it's obvious Blizzard need your help... the battlegrounds are so deserted these days, and the game is selling so badly... They obviously need your smarts to fix the terrible wrongs with the game.
I never said they needed my help. I never said the BG's were deserted. I never said the game was selling badly. Again, i never said i was smarter. You need to comprehend what you read. I was stating how their designs are flawed with the tactics and skills involved.
Oh that was sarcasm! Har har.
Sarcasm that was irrelevant to the discussion.
Of course you're going to tell us now the game that does it better....
Why would i? Each MMO does PvP differently, in WoW's case, it's instanced Battlegrounds. Your problem is assuming too much.
Unreleased games doomed to dissapoint like every other release since WoW, do not count btw, trust me on this
Discussing unreleased games has nothing to do with WoW's instanced Battlegrounds or the topic at hand. And why would i trust you on anything? I don't even know you, or what you consider disappointment in a game.
After three+ year shizzard still have no intention of adding anything new, since puppetts like Tom Chilton dont see any need for anything more because "...WOW is perfectly balanced pvp/pve game", according to the same fagot, Im curious is this true, are all players that enjoy a bit of pvp, satisfied with over 3 year ald AV, with nothing new, no new bg, same shitty av. Im not talking about tower capturing etc... im talking about new BG, three+ year is 'nuf time even for retard to get some idea what and how to do it.
For your information, since you seem to be lacking any actual facts in your post, ALL of the current PvP content has been added in the last 3+ years because the game is only 3+ years old and none of it was in the game at release. That's right, everything. Here's a quick run down of what has been added in the last 3+ years for PvP in WoW.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
Battlemasters.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall.
Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. This post is a joke.
Without blizzardfanboy-glasses:
6 arenas that are all the same
Tourney server you have to pay extra for
World PvP that only exist on the paper
Please name another MMO that has as many different types of PvP content as WoW? Battlegrounds, Arenas, Tournament, World and the upcoming Siege. That's 5 different forms of PvP content and STILL it's not enough for you. Let's not kid ourselves here, no amount of PvP in WoW will EVER be good enough for you. Even non fanboys can see this.
WAR have about 20+ "BG" ( scenarios) , 21+ world RvR map ( over 150 battlefield objective to fight for). 15 keeps , 3 huge racial battlekeep and 2 massive capital city to siege. Why would i get excited about the craptastic after-thought pvp of wow? Arena is the most boring ever. Way to turn a small boring pvp mini-game into a e-sport. Feed some purple gear to the retard and they gonna grind anything it seems.
edit : not 3 racial battlekeep but 6 . 3 on each faction.
WAR have about 20+ "BG" ( scenarios) , 21+ world RvR map ( over 150 battlefield objective to fight for). 15 keeps , 3 huge racial battlekeep and 2 massive capital city to siege. Why would i get excited about the craptastic after-thought pvp of wow? Arena is the most boring ever. Way to turn a small boring pvp mini-game into a e-sport. Feed some purple gear to the retard and they gonna grind anything it seems.
You angry, angry boy!
Since you care about numbers so much, can you break it down for me a little bit more, howmany of those are instanced, howmany open world?
WAR have about 20+ "BG" ( scenarios) , 21+ world RvR map ( over 150 battlefield objective to fight for). 15 keeps , 3 huge racial battlekeep and 2 massive capital city to siege. Why would i get excited about the craptastic after-thought pvp of wow? Arena is the most boring ever. Way to turn a small boring pvp mini-game into a e-sport. Feed some purple gear to the retard and they gonna grind anything it seems.
I would expect War to have more PvP content than WoW since it's designed from the ground up to be PvP centric. Wonder how many of these features are gonna make it into release? If we are gonna compare War which hasn't released yet to WoW, we'll need to compare it to WoTLK when it releases to get a better idea of how they match up.
Each of the current BGs need tweaking and upgrading in WotLK. Sadly I don't see anything being done. Instead they are giving us another large scale BG that will soon turn into another rush to the finish like AV. So much potential...such poor implementation.
After three+ year shizzard still have no intention of adding anything new, since puppetts like Tom Chilton dont see any need for anything more because "...WOW is perfectly balanced pvp/pve game", according to the same fagot, Im curious is this true, are all players that enjoy a bit of pvp, satisfied with over 3 year ald AV, with nothing new, no new bg, same shitty av. Im not talking about tower capturing etc... im talking about new BG, three+ year is 'nuf time even for retard to get some idea what and how to do it.
For your information, since you seem to be lacking any actual facts in your post, ALL of the current PvP content has been added in the last 3+ years because the game is only 3+ years old and none of it was in the game at release. That's right, everything. Here's a quick run down of what has been added in the last 3+ years for PvP in WoW.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
Battlemasters.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall.
Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. This post is a joke.
Give me a god damn break already bro!
WoW killed it's world pvp when they introduced battlegrounds.
Then release world pvp objectives in an attempt to revive world pvp and failed.
Then they kill battlegrounds with Arena.
only 4 battlegrounds after 4 years, non-existent world pvp and bland unbalanced arena.
You can't even raid a city and kill a city boss without the servers having a heart attack.
Wow's pvp is terrible, personally if i still played WoW all i would do is raid since it's the only mechanic in WoW thats actually good.
Originally posted by SonofSeth You angry, angry boy! Since you care about numbers so much, can you break it down for me a little bit more, howmany of those are instanced, howmany open world?
I'm going to be a fangirl on this particular subject and will say that WAR is, honest to god, probably the real WoW-killer mostly because its basically a superior sequel with PvP orientation. Blizzard should never have abandoned their open world PvP, it is going to kill them.
In answer to your question SonofSeth, the very damning reality for WoW, is all of that is open PvP except for the scenarios (BGs). As the developers have said time and again.
Originally posted by Pappy13
I would expect War to have more PvP content than WoW since it's designed from the ground up to be PvP centric. Wonder how many of these features are gonna make it into release? If we are gonna compare War which hasn't released yet to WoW, we'll need to compare it to WoTLK when it releases to get a better idea of how they match up.
They announce cuts, which were 4 out of 6 cities and 4 classes out of 24. The races apparently have battlekeeps instead, for the moment. So yeah, pretty much everything is still in. As for WotLK, fair enough. But I don't think WotLK is going to bring anything new to the table.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
Originally posted by SonofSeth You angry, angry boy! Since you care about numbers so much, can you break it down for me a little bit more, howmany of those are instanced, howmany open world?
I'm going to be a fangirl on this particular subject and will say that WAR is, honest to god, probably the real WoW-killer mostly because its basically a superior sequel with PvP orientation. Blizzard should never have abandoned their open world PvP, it is going to kill them.
In answer to your question SonofSeth, the very damning reality for WoW, is all of that is open PvP except for the scenarios (BGs). As the developers have said time and again.
So, it's 20+ BG scenarios and capitol sieging, that is the instanced part? Everything else should be open world, right?
If that's the case, that's cool.
As for the orange part, you wen't waaaay into the deep end of the PVP pool. WoW will have open world PVP, for those who want it realy bad, same as how WAR will have some PVE content (even more casual than that of WoW) for those who realy want that. By your logic, WAR is doomed before it even got out, because WoW has waaay more PVE stuff than WAR will ever have.
You should also asume that WoW open PVP zone will be far superior, polished and way more fun than anything WAR will have to offer, but you don't.
The reason that I don't assume that of WoW is, as I have said before, because this will be something like their fifth attempt at it.
But seriously, are you realy trying to say that we should expect more PVE from WAR than what we get in WoW, realy?
Yes and no. You should expect more content of all varieties in a new mmorpg as compared to a 4 year old game. A newer game will, simply by its virtue as a modern release, have far more abilities to both start with and create more content.
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
But seriously, are you realy trying to say that we should expect more PVE from WAR than what we get in WoW, realy?
Yes and no. You should expect more content of all varieties in a new mmorpg as compared to a 4 year old game. A newer game will, simply by its virtue as a modern release, have far more abilities to both start with and create more content.
Yes you should, but you are talking about WAR, not a sandbox MMO. What you get is highly directed experience with predefined points of interest and guaranteed restart of the whole war once the capitol is sacked.
Of course, this is very simplified view, but at it's core it's right up there with your intellectual construct.
Yes you should, but you are talking about WAR, not a sandbox MMO.
I don't think you have any idea what I just said. I kind of heard a whooshing sound when I read your reply, maybe you need to re-read what I said? Maybe it just doesn't matter
___________________ Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
No decent PVE end raiding. 2 capitols instead of 6. No decent professions. No flying units. No open seamless world. No arena in a PvP game (!). No open world PvP (everything is instanced).
You should also asume that WoW open PVP zone will be far superior, polished and way more fun than anything WAR will have to offer, but you don't.
The reason that I don't assume that of WoW is, as I have said before, because this will be something like their fifth attempt at it.
But seriously, are you realy trying to say that we should expect more PVE from WAR than what we get in WoW, realy?
Yes and no. You should expect more content of all varieties in a new mmorpg as compared to a 4 year old game. A newer game will, simply by its virtue as a modern release, have far more abilities to both start with and create more content.
I'm gonna say, i disagree with this statement.
One, There is a lot of variables when a developer purchases or creates programs to run their databases, let alone the graphics engines which can have dramatic effects on the breath of the content that is even possible.
Two, Blizzard has deeper pockets. They have more artists, more programmers, and more fans. World of Warcraft was destined to be a hit long before it was released purely based on the creating entity.
People loved Blizzard long before World of Warcraft was released.
As for World PvP, DAoC stands as an example of how sensitive a World PvP system can be.
World PvP in Warhammer will be "elite" group vs "elite" group with the majority of the casuals choosing the more casual battleground instances. Just like in DAoC, to assume anything else would be blindly ignoring history.
People may get tired of WoW and leave for other games, but your assessment of Warhammer i think doesn't encompass all the facts.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
WAR = SHORTCUT Everything in it is a shortcut. No decent PVE end raiding. 2 capitols instead of 6. No decent professions. No flying units. No open seamless world. No arena in a PvP game (!). No open world PvP (everything is instanced). No decent fast PvP fights. The only thing not shortcutted is the hyping. Wow delivers without shortcuts.
LOL wow doesn't have shortcuts, what game do you play? You sit in Org and you can go to any pvp you want with one click. And yes there is open world pvp in war good try though. And for all the world pvp in wow defenders, you clearly understand nothing about world pvp. Mabye a few times every few months (depending on the server), a few guilds get together and do world pvp in halaa for a little bit. This is sad and cannot called world pvp. And this is coming from a pvp player in wow, its what i do more then anything eles in wow. I can't do the bgs anymore because I have been doing the same thing in there for years, and the changes only made them more of a mindless grind. I can't tell you how many times I have seen wsg or ab over the past few years, and im not even a hardcore gamer. Arenas, well they arn't my thing, but people seem to like them so grats. But this was not something that a lot pvpers even care about that much, if it didn't give great gear, would you still do it? Honestly wow offers very little for pvp and to those of you who can't understand that there are no options for us pvpers in wow then you need to look at the game a lot closer and see that pvpers get nothing (no new pvp content since tbc and since the bgs, nothing new before that besides the failed epl). Thats right nothing new since the expansion, im sry but waiting almost 2 years for new pvp content is unexpetable.
WAR = SHORTCUT Everything in it is a shortcut. No decent PVE end raiding. 2 capitols instead of 6. No decent professions. No flying units. No open seamless world. No arena in a PvP game (!). No open world PvP (everything is instanced). No decent fast PvP fights. The only thing not shortcutted is the hyping. Wow delivers without shortcuts.
LOL wow doesn't have shortcuts, what game do you play? You sit in Org and you can go to any pvp you want with one click. And yes there is open world pvp in war good try though. And for all the world pvp in wow defenders, you clearly understand nothing about world pvp. Mabye a few times every few months (depending on the server), a few guilds get together and do world pvp in halaa for a little bit. This is sad and cannot called world pvp. And this is coming from a pvp player in wow, its what i do more then anything eles in wow. I can't do the bgs anymore because I have been doing the same thing in there for years, and the changes only made them more of a mindless grind. I can't tell you how many times I have seen wsg or ab over the past few years, and im not even a hardcore gamer. Arenas, well they arn't my thing, but people seem to like them so grats. But this was not something that a lot pvpers even care about that much, if it didn't give great gear, would you still do it? Honestly wow offers very little for pvp and to those of you who can't understand that there are no options for us pvpers in wow then you need to look at the game a lot closer and see that pvpers get nothing (no new pvp content since tbc and since the bgs, nothing new before that besides the failed epl). Thats right nothing new since the expansion, im sry but waiting almost 2 years for new pvp content is unexpetable.
Warhammer is not going to be your Holy Grail.
I've played Mythic games for more then a decade, and i can tell you that you will get bored of the battlegrounds in Warhammer as you have in WoW if you play them excessively for years.
The World PvP in Warhammer is not going to be like the golden days of DAoC. It will cater to a more focused, arena like, crowd.
It will start out awesome, but in six months the cream will rise to the top and the casuals won't like the world pvp anymore, and they'll turn to the instances. The World PvP will be the elite vs elite just like WoWs arenas. Except people will doubt the developers when they lose, They will complain to Mythic and about Mythic for bad balance, or blame competing guilds of using radar or whatever other excuses they can come up with that does not include their own lack of ability.
Warhammer is like DAoC, without the third realm, and focused on the Battlegrounds. But instanced instead of persistent like the old killajoe, molvik, lion's den, whatever....
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
BGs are repatitive and require no skill to earn rewards. Arenas require skill, but it is unbalanced, and resilience makes it even worse. Much of the "new" WotLK content is just crap they stole from WAR, which is not a good thing considering that WAR is a PvP game and WoW is a PvE game.
But that brings up another point. WoW is a PvE game, so it does not need good PvP. But the problem is it does need good PvE. One of the worst things about WoW is it had great PvE content from levels 58-60, the instances and end game raiding was amazing. Now that you can go to Outland at 58, all that end game PvE content is barren because Ouland is so much better. And they didnt even update the Paladin Epic Mount quest for TBC, so now there are tons of poor level 60 paladins who have to try to find groups for this barren content that nobody does anymore, and they spend like a week or 2 just doing all this, and they still have to pay a lot of money as well!!!
I truely hope that WAR kills WoW because Blizzard has made many horrible mistakes, and they havent gotten what they deserve for it.....yet....
But there is something WoW could do to get me back.
Release a new server type, based heavily off of Classic WoW. It would be level 1-60, no battlegrounds, no arena, the classic rank based honor system, bring back dishonor to get rid of geared characters ganking lowbies in hillsbrad, making it a pain to level. Make it so the really good PvP epics can only be obtained by very good PvPers, and players will have to use PvE gear for PvP until they reach those very high ranks.
As for future content, increasing the level cap might not be a bad idea, but increase the level cap of the current end game PvE as well, and dont make any of the content pointless by making it that every1 can step into the new content and get green mob drops that are better than high end dungeon drops just a couple levels lower.
Yes you should, but you are talking about WAR, not a sandbox MMO.
I don't think you have any idea what I just said. I kind of heard a whooshing sound when I read your reply, maybe you need to re-read what I said? Maybe it just doesn't matter
I guess you must have been talking about developers abilty to make new content, not players?
I am not sure where most of the people in this thread have been for the past few years. WoW didn't win the MMO wars (and yea, it did win) because it was innovative and groundbreaking. In reality it is the most generic MMO out there...
WoW is the biggest and best MMO because they took the time and effort to make a quality MMO that was easy to use, and appealed to a broad spectrum of players. They understood that the key to an MMO is the players, and that bringing just enough of each element to draw the different player types, but not too much, as to alienate any of them, would create a huge social network. This is what is took WoW to the top, and is keeping them there. There will always be games that are 'better' at this or that, but in doing so, they often comprimise in other areas of gameplay, and as such end up apealing more to one group than another.
WoW is like Windows. Everyone agrees that it has problems, and there a many different alternatives that are better, in one way or another... however none of them have the same mass appeal. People may not like WoW... but if you compare WoW to any other game, most everyone will know at least one of the games being compared. (and what does that tell you?)
I am not sure where most of the people in this thread have been for the past few years. WoW didn't win the MMO wars (and yea, it did win) because it was innovative and groundbreaking. In reality it is the most generic MMO out there... WoW is the biggest and best MMO because they took the time and effort to make a quality MMO that was easy to use, and appealed to a broad spectrum of players. They understood that the key to an MMO is the players, and that bringing just enough of each element to draw the different player types, but not too much, as to alienate any of them, would create a huge social network. This is what is took WoW to the top, and is keeping them there. There will always be games that are 'better' at this or that, but in doing so, they often comprimise in other areas of gameplay, and as such end up apealing more to one group than another. WoW is like Windows. Everyone agrees that it has problems, and there a many different alternatives that are better, in one way or another... however none of them have the same mass appeal. People may not like WoW... but if you compare WoW to any other game, most everyone will know at least one of the games being compared. (and what does that tell you?)
Exactly, Blizzard knows how to make fun games. They have a lot of integrity with their customers, and they can take an idea from another company and do it better then that company.
Its like Dwain Wade didn't invent baskekball, he just does it better.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius." -Oscar Wilde
I do not know why this discussion is so long and heated. It is pretty clear that PvP is the weakest part of the WoW product offer (WoW as a whole is an excellent product as many have stated).
WAR will hit WoW where it has the potential to hurt the most. None here will know how WAR will fare and how hard WoW will have felt the blow in 12months time. As a consumer I am cheering all the way since competition just means that my USD/EUR are more worth.
Comments
Aren't the current BGs using the same ideas from FPSs right now? AV is pretty deep with lots of tactics when people actually care. Just because people don't really care about wining, doesn't mean the scenario doesn't require strategy. If the players don't give a crap, the players don't give a crap. Nothing Blizzard can do. When most people give up as soon as the enemy caps 1 node in AB, what are you supposed to do. Losers give up easy. Basketball doesn't require strategy either when one team just lets the other team score over and over again, sitting down twidling their thumbs or running in circles.
Sounds like someone was never on a premade against another premade.
You're smarter than Blizzard, then? And yet you want FPS style maps in a fantasy roleplaying game. I mean it's obvious Blizzard need your help... the battlegrounds are so deserted these days, and the game is selling so badly... They obviously need your smarts to fix the terrible wrongs with the game.
Oh that was sarcasm! Har har.
Of course you're going to tell us now the game that does it better.... Unreleased games doomed to dissapoint like every other release since WoW, do not count btw, trust me on this
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
You're smarter than Blizzard, then?
I never said i was smarter. Work on your straw mans though. It seems i should have articulated my post more clearly so you could understand me better.
Blizzard would be smart to keep hold of their current players who are tiresome of the same Battlegrounds, and hire some outside map makers, in other genres, who have experience in the PvP field.
And yet you want FPS style maps in a fantasy roleplaying game.
CTF (WSG), Assault (AV), Capture & Hold (AB), 2v2/5v5 (Arena) are all FPS style maps. Blizzard hasn't innovated anything here, so the genre of these maps isn't an issue.
I mean it's obvious Blizzard need your help... the battlegrounds are so deserted these days, and the game is selling so badly... They obviously need your smarts to fix the terrible wrongs with the game.
I never said they needed my help. I never said the BG's were deserted. I never said the game was selling badly. Again, i never said i was smarter. You need to comprehend what you read. I was stating how their designs are flawed with the tactics and skills involved.
Oh that was sarcasm! Har har.
Sarcasm that was irrelevant to the discussion.
Of course you're going to tell us now the game that does it better....
Why would i? Each MMO does PvP differently, in WoW's case, it's instanced Battlegrounds. Your problem is assuming too much.
Unreleased games doomed to dissapoint like every other release since WoW, do not count btw, trust me on this
Discussing unreleased games has nothing to do with WoW's instanced Battlegrounds or the topic at hand. And why would i trust you on anything? I don't even know you, or what you consider disappointment in a game.
For your information, since you seem to be lacking any actual facts in your post, ALL of the current PvP content has been added in the last 3+ years because the game is only 3+ years old and none of it was in the game at release. That's right, everything. Here's a quick run down of what has been added in the last 3+ years for PvP in WoW.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
Battlemasters.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall.
Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. This post is a joke.
Without blizzardfanboy-glasses:
6 arenas that are all the same
Tourney server you have to pay extra for
World PvP that only exist on the paper
Please name another MMO that has as many different types of PvP content as WoW? Battlegrounds, Arenas, Tournament, World and the upcoming Siege. That's 5 different forms of PvP content and STILL it's not enough for you. Let's not kid ourselves here, no amount of PvP in WoW will EVER be good enough for you. Even non fanboys can see this.
WAR have about 20+ "BG" ( scenarios) , 21+ world RvR map ( over 150 battlefield objective to fight for). 15 keeps , 3 huge racial battlekeep and 2 massive capital city to siege. Why would i get excited about the craptastic after-thought pvp of wow? Arena is the most boring ever. Way to turn a small boring pvp mini-game into a e-sport. Feed some purple gear to the retard and they gonna grind anything it seems.
edit : not 3 racial battlekeep but 6 . 3 on each faction.
http://revolutionwar.guildlaunch.com/
You angry, angry boy!
Since you care about numbers so much, can you break it down for me a little bit more, howmany of those are instanced, howmany open world?
I would expect War to have more PvP content than WoW since it's designed from the ground up to be PvP centric. Wonder how many of these features are gonna make it into release? If we are gonna compare War which hasn't released yet to WoW, we'll need to compare it to WoTLK when it releases to get a better idea of how they match up.
when he said does it even exist he meant no one plays it lol
only Sixty-five million three hundred and forty thousand two hundred and eighty five boars!!
Each of the current BGs need tweaking and upgrading in WotLK. Sadly I don't see anything being done. Instead they are giving us another large scale BG that will soon turn into another rush to the finish like AV. So much potential...such poor implementation.
For your information, since you seem to be lacking any actual facts in your post, ALL of the current PvP content has been added in the last 3+ years because the game is only 3+ years old and none of it was in the game at release. That's right, everything. Here's a quick run down of what has been added in the last 3+ years for PvP in WoW.
4 Battlegrounds
6 Arena's (2v2, 3v3, 5v5) both competitive and non competitive.
A full blown PvP tourney server.
Many world PvP quests and zones with world PvP objectives.
A full PvP honor system and a revamp of that honor system.
Tons of PvP gear and various PvP sets per class.
Battlemasters.
And that doesn't even include all the things that will be added in the next expansion this fall.
Yeah, Blizzard has REALLY been lax about adding PvP content in the last 3+ years. This post is a joke.
Give me a god damn break already bro!
WoW killed it's world pvp when they introduced battlegrounds.
Then release world pvp objectives in an attempt to revive world pvp and failed.
Then they kill battlegrounds with Arena.
only 4 battlegrounds after 4 years, non-existent world pvp and bland unbalanced arena.
You can't even raid a city and kill a city boss without the servers having a heart attack.
Wow's pvp is terrible, personally if i still played WoW all i would do is raid since it's the only mechanic in WoW thats actually good.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
I'm going to be a fangirl on this particular subject and will say that WAR is, honest to god, probably the real WoW-killer mostly because its basically a superior sequel with PvP orientation. Blizzard should never have abandoned their open world PvP, it is going to kill them.
In answer to your question SonofSeth, the very damning reality for WoW, is all of that is open PvP except for the scenarios (BGs). As the developers have said time and again.
They announce cuts, which were 4 out of 6 cities and 4 classes out of 24. The races apparently have battlekeeps instead, for the moment. So yeah, pretty much everything is still in. As for WotLK, fair enough. But I don't think WotLK is going to bring anything new to the table.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
I'm going to be a fangirl on this particular subject and will say that WAR is, honest to god, probably the real WoW-killer mostly because its basically a superior sequel with PvP orientation. Blizzard should never have abandoned their open world PvP, it is going to kill them.
In answer to your question SonofSeth, the very damning reality for WoW, is all of that is open PvP except for the scenarios (BGs). As the developers have said time and again.
So, it's 20+ BG scenarios and capitol sieging, that is the instanced part? Everything else should be open world, right?
If that's the case, that's cool.
As for the orange part, you wen't waaaay into the deep end of the PVP pool. WoW will have open world PVP, for those who want it realy bad, same as how WAR will have some PVE content (even more casual than that of WoW) for those who realy want that. By your logic, WAR is doomed before it even got out, because WoW has waaay more PVE stuff than WAR will ever have.
I'm going to say that I think you are wrong here.
edit: I believe you and others are using an obsolete formula based on WoW, because I keep seeing this pop up. The formula I refer to here is-
Mainly X (the focus), with a paltry offering of Y, at an exact ratio matching WoWs PvE:PvP
People than go further with this and assume that there will only be as much of X and Y in another game as there was in WoW.
Its inaccurate. You should expect that even a PvP game will offer more PvE content than WoW does or can now.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
You should also asume that WoW open PVP zone will be far superior, polished and way more fun than anything WAR will have to offer, but you don't.
But seriously, are you realy trying to say that we should expect more PVE from WAR than what we get in WoW, realy?
The reason that I don't assume that of WoW is, as I have said before, because this will be something like their fifth attempt at it.
Yes and no. You should expect more content of all varieties in a new mmorpg as compared to a 4 year old game. A newer game will, simply by its virtue as a modern release, have far more abilities to both start with and create more content.___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Yes you should, but you are talking about WAR, not a sandbox MMO. What you get is highly directed experience with predefined points of interest and guaranteed restart of the whole war once the capitol is sacked.
Of course, this is very simplified view, but at it's core it's right up there with your intellectual construct.
I don't think you have any idea what I just said. I kind of heard a whooshing sound when I read your reply, maybe you need to re-read what I said? Maybe it just doesn't matter
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
WAR = SHORTCUT
Everything in it is a shortcut.
No decent PVE end raiding. 2 capitols instead of 6. No decent professions. No flying units. No open seamless world. No arena in a PvP game (!). No open world PvP (everything is instanced).
No decent fast PvP fights.
The only thing not shortcutted is the hyping.
Wow delivers without shortcuts.
The reason that I don't assume that of WoW is, as I have said before, because this will be something like their fifth attempt at it.
Yes and no. You should expect more content of all varieties in a new mmorpg as compared to a 4 year old game. A newer game will, simply by its virtue as a modern release, have far more abilities to both start with and create more content.I'm gonna say, i disagree with this statement.
One, There is a lot of variables when a developer purchases or creates programs to run their databases, let alone the graphics engines which can have dramatic effects on the breath of the content that is even possible.
Two, Blizzard has deeper pockets. They have more artists, more programmers, and more fans. World of Warcraft was destined to be a hit long before it was released purely based on the creating entity.
People loved Blizzard long before World of Warcraft was released.
As for World PvP, DAoC stands as an example of how sensitive a World PvP system can be.
World PvP in Warhammer will be "elite" group vs "elite" group with the majority of the casuals choosing the more casual battleground instances. Just like in DAoC, to assume anything else would be blindly ignoring history.
People may get tired of WoW and leave for other games, but your assessment of Warhammer i think doesn't encompass all the facts.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
LOL wow doesn't have shortcuts, what game do you play? You sit in Org and you can go to any pvp you want with one click. And yes there is open world pvp in war good try though. And for all the world pvp in wow defenders, you clearly understand nothing about world pvp. Mabye a few times every few months (depending on the server), a few guilds get together and do world pvp in halaa for a little bit. This is sad and cannot called world pvp. And this is coming from a pvp player in wow, its what i do more then anything eles in wow. I can't do the bgs anymore because I have been doing the same thing in there for years, and the changes only made them more of a mindless grind. I can't tell you how many times I have seen wsg or ab over the past few years, and im not even a hardcore gamer. Arenas, well they arn't my thing, but people seem to like them so grats. But this was not something that a lot pvpers even care about that much, if it didn't give great gear, would you still do it? Honestly wow offers very little for pvp and to those of you who can't understand that there are no options for us pvpers in wow then you need to look at the game a lot closer and see that pvpers get nothing (no new pvp content since tbc and since the bgs, nothing new before that besides the failed epl). Thats right nothing new since the expansion, im sry but waiting almost 2 years for new pvp content is unexpetable.
LOL wow doesn't have shortcuts, what game do you play? You sit in Org and you can go to any pvp you want with one click. And yes there is open world pvp in war good try though. And for all the world pvp in wow defenders, you clearly understand nothing about world pvp. Mabye a few times every few months (depending on the server), a few guilds get together and do world pvp in halaa for a little bit. This is sad and cannot called world pvp. And this is coming from a pvp player in wow, its what i do more then anything eles in wow. I can't do the bgs anymore because I have been doing the same thing in there for years, and the changes only made them more of a mindless grind. I can't tell you how many times I have seen wsg or ab over the past few years, and im not even a hardcore gamer. Arenas, well they arn't my thing, but people seem to like them so grats. But this was not something that a lot pvpers even care about that much, if it didn't give great gear, would you still do it? Honestly wow offers very little for pvp and to those of you who can't understand that there are no options for us pvpers in wow then you need to look at the game a lot closer and see that pvpers get nothing (no new pvp content since tbc and since the bgs, nothing new before that besides the failed epl). Thats right nothing new since the expansion, im sry but waiting almost 2 years for new pvp content is unexpetable.
Warhammer is not going to be your Holy Grail.
I've played Mythic games for more then a decade, and i can tell you that you will get bored of the battlegrounds in Warhammer as you have in WoW if you play them excessively for years.
The World PvP in Warhammer is not going to be like the golden days of DAoC. It will cater to a more focused, arena like, crowd.
It will start out awesome, but in six months the cream will rise to the top and the casuals won't like the world pvp anymore, and they'll turn to the instances. The World PvP will be the elite vs elite just like WoWs arenas. Except people will doubt the developers when they lose, They will complain to Mythic and about Mythic for bad balance, or blame competing guilds of using radar or whatever other excuses they can come up with that does not include their own lack of ability.
Warhammer is like DAoC, without the third realm, and focused on the Battlegrounds. But instanced instead of persistent like the old killajoe, molvik, lion's den, whatever....
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
BGs are repatitive and require no skill to earn rewards. Arenas require skill, but it is unbalanced, and resilience makes it even worse. Much of the "new" WotLK content is just crap they stole from WAR, which is not a good thing considering that WAR is a PvP game and WoW is a PvE game.
But that brings up another point. WoW is a PvE game, so it does not need good PvP. But the problem is it does need good PvE. One of the worst things about WoW is it had great PvE content from levels 58-60, the instances and end game raiding was amazing. Now that you can go to Outland at 58, all that end game PvE content is barren because Ouland is so much better. And they didnt even update the Paladin Epic Mount quest for TBC, so now there are tons of poor level 60 paladins who have to try to find groups for this barren content that nobody does anymore, and they spend like a week or 2 just doing all this, and they still have to pay a lot of money as well!!!
I truely hope that WAR kills WoW because Blizzard has made many horrible mistakes, and they havent gotten what they deserve for it.....yet....
But there is something WoW could do to get me back.
Release a new server type, based heavily off of Classic WoW. It would be level 1-60, no battlegrounds, no arena, the classic rank based honor system, bring back dishonor to get rid of geared characters ganking lowbies in hillsbrad, making it a pain to level. Make it so the really good PvP epics can only be obtained by very good PvPers, and players will have to use PvE gear for PvP until they reach those very high ranks.
As for future content, increasing the level cap might not be a bad idea, but increase the level cap of the current end game PvE as well, and dont make any of the content pointless by making it that every1 can step into the new content and get green mob drops that are better than high end dungeon drops just a couple levels lower.
I don't think you have any idea what I just said. I kind of heard a whooshing sound when I read your reply, maybe you need to re-read what I said? Maybe it just doesn't matter
I guess you must have been talking about developers abilty to make new content, not players?
I am not sure where most of the people in this thread have been for the past few years. WoW didn't win the MMO wars (and yea, it did win) because it was innovative and groundbreaking. In reality it is the most generic MMO out there...
WoW is the biggest and best MMO because they took the time and effort to make a quality MMO that was easy to use, and appealed to a broad spectrum of players. They understood that the key to an MMO is the players, and that bringing just enough of each element to draw the different player types, but not too much, as to alienate any of them, would create a huge social network. This is what is took WoW to the top, and is keeping them there. There will always be games that are 'better' at this or that, but in doing so, they often comprimise in other areas of gameplay, and as such end up apealing more to one group than another.
WoW is like Windows. Everyone agrees that it has problems, and there a many different alternatives that are better, in one way or another... however none of them have the same mass appeal. People may not like WoW... but if you compare WoW to any other game, most everyone will know at least one of the games being compared. (and what does that tell you?)
Exactly, Blizzard knows how to make fun games. They have a lot of integrity with their customers, and they can take an idea from another company and do it better then that company.
Its like Dwain Wade didn't invent baskekball, he just does it better.
"The public is wonderfully tolerant. It forgives everything except genius."
-Oscar Wilde
I do not know why this discussion is so long and heated. It is pretty clear that PvP is the weakest part of the WoW product offer (WoW as a whole is an excellent product as many have stated).
WAR will hit WoW where it has the potential to hurt the most. None here will know how WAR will fare and how hard WoW will have felt the blow in 12months time. As a consumer I am cheering all the way since competition just means that my USD/EUR are more worth.