.....actually I just remembered Ultima Online came out in 1997. So in 11 years there are currently 2 games that have implemented FFA PvP and failed.......although AoC has apparently (I havent played it myself) failed due to lots of other reasons and not specificly FFA PvP.......but yes apparently the FFA PvP aspect isnt good from what I've heard.
There are a couple games that have tried the ffa model and aren't even worth mentioning unless you don't want ffa every again. UO and AoC contrary to the loud mouths here are not failures their original ffa models failed. UO stopped being ffa with UOR in what 00, 01? Something like that I started in 98 so I spent plenty of time finding out of the way places to hunt. AoC started adding anti-ganking measure and oh how everyone cried and complained.
Lineage 2 is mostly a Asian game so I don't include it in discussion of western mmo. I completely respect them for their ability to have absolute freedom and not abuse it. To bad we couldn't be as mature.
Eve is ffa only to an extent, you don't have to pvp if you choose not to plus you can insure your ship. They have also recently by what I hear have started adding new features to help stop the cheap pvp going on. Eve is also concidered a success because it is very small compared to other mmos.
There has been no ffa model successful mmo because the ffa community is unwilling accept real risk for their bad behavior. Until they have the same risk that their prey has it will never work.
Originally posted by Venger There has been no ffa model successful mmo because the ffa community is unwilling accept real risk for their bad behavior. Until they have the same risk that their prey has it will never work.
Indeed, which is why SWG failed. It was a great game, any of the vets will tell you but the developers wanted to appeal to customers so they changed a lot of the freedom players had which ultimately doomed the game.
There are a couple games that have tried the ffa model and aren't even worth mentioning unless you don't want ffa every again. UO and AoC contrary to the loud mouths here are not failures their original ffa models failed. UO stopped being ffa with UOR in what 00, 01? Something like that I started in 98 so I spent plenty of time finding out of the way places to hunt. AoC started adding anti-ganking measure and oh how everyone cried and complained. Lineage 2 is mostly a Asian game so I don't include it in discussion of western mmo. I completely respect them for their ability to have absolute freedom and not abuse it. To bad we couldn't be as mature. Eve is ffa only to an extent, you don't have to pvp if you choose not to plus you can insure your ship. They have also recently by what I hear have started adding new features to help stop the cheap pvp going on. Eve is also concidered a success because it is very small compared to other mmos.
There has been no ffa model successful mmo because the ffa community is unwilling accept real risk for their bad behavior. Until they have the same risk that their prey has it will never work.
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The only game full sandbox worked on without players camping places killing everybody for the hell of it was the very first mmorpg, Meridian 59.
Had the best battle system, lvling system, equipment system and when you pked your name turned red which gave everyone in the game the right to kill you without penalty as well as most merchants wouldnt sell to you until you atoned for your crime which was not easy.
When there were random pkers it didnt last too long because there would be anti-pkers and when you die in that game you lose a level.
best implimentation of a pvp system with a sandbox driven skill setup. If some future mmo came up with a game like that again, except modern it would be a best seller.
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
Yeah carebears don't have much risk give me a break. Pkers are the biggest bunch of whiny pansy around. They have great reward with very little risk.
This is the problem with the ffa community. If you're not into lowest common denomonator ganking, camping, noob hunting basically pansy pvp you belong on a pve server. That is backwards thinking that gets the ffa community and any game that does try this model from going anywhere.
ffa pvp is a tricky one. What works even in FPS titles is Teams. This way the unskilled can join a team with skilled players and still 'win'.Plus this gives designers opportunities to design for group based play where you have roles, etc
Anyway what I think should be investigated is having 'empire' (kinda like EVE) where ganking is punished if caught or whatever. There should be levels of danger. 1.0 should be 'safe'. But you have less and less guards the further away we get from civilization
Let players fight along the outskirts for control of kingdoms and stake their own claim. Anyway, the Empire region (in the center) should be safest of all. As you get to outer ring, you can have some good pvp.
Best solution for all sides. Let the borders be all out FFA PVP. Let the inside be governed with guards
The empire citizens fight together and have a reason. The outlaws (or player run factions), can fight for control of border kingdoms
Only problem that is serious too me is how to handle persistent ownership of cities. Its not a good feeling to go to sleep, all is well, then logon next day and all is burned down. EVE has a complex system for this. That is where you win or fail. Because that means more work / grind for pkers. PvPers want to fight when they online, not off.
The only game full sandbox worked on without players camping places killing everybody for the hell of it was the very first mmorpg, Meridian 59.
Had the best battle system, lvling system, equipment system and when you pked your name turned red which gave everyone in the game the right to kill you without penalty as well as most merchants wouldnt sell to you until you atoned for your crime which was not easy.
When there were random pkers it didnt last too long because there would be anti-pkers and when you die in that game you lose a level.
best implimentation of a pvp system with a sandbox driven skill setup. If some future mmo came up with a game like that again, except modern it would be a best seller.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
.....actually I just remembered Ultima Online came out in 1997. So in 11 years there are currently 2 games that have implemented FFA PvP and failed.......although AoC has apparently (I havent played it myself) failed due to lots of other reasons and not specificly FFA PvP.......but yes apparently the FFA PvP aspect isnt good from what I've heard. 11 years 2 games Can anyone add more to this list?
FFA PvP game. I played UO on launch day in 1997. I also played EVE just shortly after it launched. Wurm is much more "sandbox" than either of those other 2. I did also play SWG, but just after the CU so i cannot compare pre-CU SWG to Wurm. Although Wurm has a small community (~1100 premium players), the bugs have been around forever, development comes at a snails pace, it's very unbalanced, but at the end of the day it _IS_ the only sandbox game out there IMO.
If you want to see a real FFA PvP Sandbox MMO then I suggest you check out Wurm. Just don't complain to me when you want to gouge your eyes out because the game is so frustrating.
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
I don't know why developers, or their bosses, feel that they have to hold the gamers' hands and walk them through the world, but that seems to be the trend for new MMOs these days. I fear that as more and more gamers get frustrated and leave them, companies will gett more and more frustrated and stop making them. A great MMO takes a vision, not a marketing survey.
Money is only reason, themepark mmo's have biggest potential playerbase out there, its seems save bet for most.
As long games like wow are very succesfull this aint gonne happen, the frustrated players are a minority.
There are only 892k players registered here on mmorpg.com and only a small part realy come alot here and make topics or reply, while there millions and millions of players out there who love the mass themepark style games.
Lets hope darkfall and mortal online(still have my doubs about this one) will succeed in bringing back sandbox mmo's as a mmorpg like i see it should be made hehe.
Were not a niche. Players aren't given the option between a sandbox and Everquest clone. All those games listen on the left of this forum are Everquest clones (except of course WWIIONLINE and Planetside). Players are given no options, we have a choice between a Model-T, and a Model-T hatchback.
A little bit because I'm torn on the issue. I like ffa but I know ffa ALWAYS turns into a steaming pile of shit because pro ffa people are not willing to accept real risk for their actions. What is realistic and will realistic consequences have enough teeth to make the pker think twice before they pk some random person because they are bored? Or will it be the same lame ass shit we've seen out of every game that offers anything close to ffa pvp. True ffa only a few and most are complete piles of crap, but close to ffa a bunch. UO was true ffa but look at what happened because ffa people wouldn't accept risk. AoC was ffa and when they started added additional risk for ganking and look at everyone bitch and moan. WoW not really ffa but look at the horde vs alliance on the pvp servers, when there was world pvp. It usually ended up being some 60 ganking low levels.
My favorite MMO is WWIIONLINE and I'm one of them carebears. Go figure huh.
Which is why SWG could have worked very well, PK anyone you want: but you automatically get a bounty on your head, increasing with each PK. Alas my dream does not exist.
And the PK'er gets on his second account, kills himself and collects the bounty. This bounty system issue has been around since UO and never been fixed.
The only game full sandbox worked on without players camping places killing everybody for the hell of it was the very first mmorpg, Meridian 59.
Had the best battle system, lvling system, equipment system and when you pked your name turned red which gave everyone in the game the right to kill you without penalty as well as most merchants wouldnt sell to you until you atoned for your crime which was not easy.
When there were random pkers it didnt last too long because there would be anti-pkers and when you die in that game you lose a level.
best implimentation of a pvp system with a sandbox driven skill setup. If some future mmo came up with a game like that again, except modern it would be a best seller.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
And what you describe is something we will never, ever see again in a MMO.
Even darkfall will have guards in towns and penalties for PKing.
So I guess your beloved savior of FFA won't be a savior after all.
Why do all of these sandbox mmo posts lead to a ffa pvp topic?
Sandbox mmo doesn't equal ffa pvp.
We can easily make pvp meaningful by having decaying armor/weapons and set a loot generator system on bodies looted in pvp.
Let's say you kill a person in pvp, you would get a random drop and a couple crafting materials.
While the person ganked gets a big repair bill and after repairing specific armor and weapons a few times it becomes unwearable.
Lets make the killed player not able to fight after being ganked for 15 minutes so you don't have the noob rushing you over and over again like players do in wow.
Reward for PKing and risk for the ganked.
If you would like a penalty for PKing make the PKer not be allowed in towns for an hour after PKing.
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
How absurd can you be? You really think that the world is free for all? Barbarism is the days when everything is "almost" FFA and we call them the dark days in history, where civilisation collapsed, trade collapse, population dwindled till even the FFA have no one else to kill, one one else to trade with, no one else to talk to. You think that is glorified?
So you imagine a game in which you can kill anyone you want, and yet NPCs will be there to serve you, love you, kiss you a** and repair your armor, sell you food, sell you arrows. Oh great you have real logic.
So you imagine a game in which you can recklessly ambush and kill anyone you want, and these RL people would have to team with you, go explore with you, let you backstab them when they go pull a mob for the TEAM to work out. AND you have the balls to suggest that these other people will love you, adore you, play with you, pay for the game, the account, spend the time in the game and be AMBUSHED by you. Oh great, hate to tell you this, you stink, I do not want you to be in my game, and I definitely do not want to be in a game with you around.
So you imagine you are a good customer? Drive most players away till the game becomes a ghost town while you camp the new player spawn point hoping for the next player, who might never show up, as the game is driven to the point of extinction by your malicious behaviour. Wake up call. Developers do not make those kind of games because they hate you too, and they make sure you behave yourself when playing in their game, and they do so by making it NOT free for all.
Many sane people in MMORPG has already pointed out that sandbox is not the same thing as FFA PKing. Even SWG in its hey days are not necessary FFA. IF I do not flag myself, I can still fool around and be freed from pkers, provided that I do not accidentally hit a flagged player (AoE is bad when an empire AT runs past). I used to be sympathetic to the PVP goers who seek more freedom in game mechanics. But after reading enough rants here, I come to despise them. They care not for game mechanics, for game enjoyment, for game immersion, for other people who also want good times in a game. They only want unrestricted freedom to grief and hurt people till everyone leave the game. They are like parasites leeching a game till it dies and move onto the next game.
Rude reply to you so called sandbox lovers, who are actually griefers in disguise. No, not everyone wants to play with you. There are enough who do not want you, these people form another gamer community served by pve game developers. They know your rants and have come to the decision NOT to have you on board. Repeating those rants only reinforce our strong sense of relief that we have left you aside when finding our games. Good, you are not playing with us, and good we feel good.
As for the true sandbox gamers, who look for freedom of exploration, less restriction in class structures, and so on, that is another story altogether.
Sandbox is sandbox, FFA PVP is FFA PVP. The two game concepts are distinct.
Sandbox meand freedom. FFAPvP is freedom. Thats why thay go hand in hand.
But in sandbox there is no levels, so there is no lowlevels to gank. I hate when people talk about FFAPvP as it only have to do with idiotes. Im a RPer and need FFAPvP to roleplay.
The only game full sandbox worked on without players camping places killing everybody for the hell of it was the very first mmorpg, Meridian 59.
Had the best battle system, lvling system, equipment system and when you pked your name turned red which gave everyone in the game the right to kill you without penalty as well as most merchants wouldnt sell to you until you atoned for your crime which was not easy.
When there were random pkers it didnt last too long because there would be anti-pkers and when you die in that game you lose a level.
best implimentation of a pvp system with a sandbox driven skill setup. If some future mmo came up with a game like that again, except modern it would be a best seller.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
And what you describe is something we will never, ever see again in a MMO.
Even darkfall will have guards in towns and penalties for PKing.
So I guess your beloved savior of FFA won't be a savior after all.
Darkfall have alignment yes but, its not that importend there are also pk citys and you can also build your own ganksquad city.
Darkfall is not item based so again you dont have to rely much on gear you just pk others loot them and have good gear from them.
Guards of your enemys yes who cares, im 100% sure that the hardcore clans in darkfall will attack most on sight becouse there is so much freedom and a huge world with so many posibillity's that alignment and guards not realy matter only for those who are solo or casual and dont want to be hated to much.
Darkfall is an open pvp game with total freedom the game i describe is darkfall and savior of FFA.
Only whiners are affraid of alignment systems and guards not true hardcore ANTI and RPK.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Comments
.....actually I just remembered Ultima Online came out in 1997. So in 11 years there are currently 2 games that have implemented FFA PvP and failed.......although AoC has apparently (I havent played it myself) failed due to lots of other reasons and not specificly FFA PvP.......but yes apparently the FFA PvP aspect isnt good from what I've heard.
11 years
2 games
Can anyone add more to this list?
Oh yeah silly me! Lineage 2 ......so thats 3 games
....oh and EVE but thats actually a successful example of FFA PvP so it probably shouldnt boost the number up to 4
There are a couple games that have tried the ffa model and aren't even worth mentioning unless you don't want ffa every again. UO and AoC contrary to the loud mouths here are not failures their original ffa models failed. UO stopped being ffa with UOR in what 00, 01? Something like that I started in 98 so I spent plenty of time finding out of the way places to hunt. AoC started adding anti-ganking measure and oh how everyone cried and complained.
Lineage 2 is mostly a Asian game so I don't include it in discussion of western mmo. I completely respect them for their ability to have absolute freedom and not abuse it. To bad we couldn't be as mature.
Eve is ffa only to an extent, you don't have to pvp if you choose not to plus you can insure your ship. They have also recently by what I hear have started adding new features to help stop the cheap pvp going on. Eve is also concidered a success because it is very small compared to other mmos.
There has been no ffa model successful mmo because the ffa community is unwilling accept real risk for their bad behavior. Until they have the same risk that their prey has it will never work.
Indeed, which is why SWG failed. It was a great game, any of the vets will tell you but the developers wanted to appeal to customers so they changed a lot of the freedom players had which ultimately doomed the game.
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The only game full sandbox worked on without players camping places killing everybody for the hell of it was the very first mmorpg, Meridian 59.
Had the best battle system, lvling system, equipment system and when you pked your name turned red which gave everyone in the game the right to kill you without penalty as well as most merchants wouldnt sell to you until you atoned for your crime which was not easy.
When there were random pkers it didnt last too long because there would be anti-pkers and when you die in that game you lose a level.
best implimentation of a pvp system with a sandbox driven skill setup. If some future mmo came up with a game like that again, except modern it would be a best seller.
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
Yeah carebears don't have much risk give me a break. Pkers are the biggest bunch of whiny pansy around. They have great reward with very little risk.
This is the problem with the ffa community. If you're not into lowest common denomonator ganking, camping, noob hunting basically pansy pvp you belong on a pve server. That is backwards thinking that gets the ffa community and any game that does try this model from going anywhere.
ffa pvp is a tricky one. What works even in FPS titles is Teams. This way the unskilled can join a team with skilled players and still 'win'.Plus this gives designers opportunities to design for group based play where you have roles, etc
Anyway what I think should be investigated is having 'empire' (kinda like EVE) where ganking is punished if caught or whatever. There should be levels of danger. 1.0 should be 'safe'. But you have less and less guards the further away we get from civilization
Let players fight along the outskirts for control of kingdoms and stake their own claim. Anyway, the Empire region (in the center) should be safest of all. As you get to outer ring, you can have some good pvp.
Best solution for all sides. Let the borders be all out FFA PVP. Let the inside be governed with guards
The empire citizens fight together and have a reason. The outlaws (or player run factions), can fight for control of border kingdoms
Only problem that is serious too me is how to handle persistent ownership of cities. Its not a good feeling to go to sleep, all is well, then logon next day and all is burned down. EVE has a complex system for this. That is where you win or fail. Because that means more work / grind for pkers. PvPers want to fight when they online, not off.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Which is why SWG could have worked very well, PK anyone you want: but you automatically get a bounty on your head, increasing with each PK.
Alas my dream does not exist.
www.wurmonline.com
FFA PvP game. I played UO on launch day in 1997. I also played EVE just shortly after it launched. Wurm is much more "sandbox" than either of those other 2. I did also play SWG, but just after the CU so i cannot compare pre-CU SWG to Wurm. Although Wurm has a small community (~1100 premium players), the bugs have been around forever, development comes at a snails pace, it's very unbalanced, but at the end of the day it _IS_ the only sandbox game out there IMO.
If you want to see a real FFA PvP Sandbox MMO then I suggest you check out Wurm. Just don't complain to me when you want to gouge your eyes out because the game is so frustrating.
www.TheChippedDagger.com My 90-day 2D Java MMORPG project
They that can give up essential liberty for temporary safetey deserve neither. -- Ben Franklin
If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door. -- Milton Berle
Money is only reason, themepark mmo's have biggest potential playerbase out there, its seems save bet for most.
As long games like wow are very succesfull this aint gonne happen, the frustrated players are a minority.
There are only 892k players registered here on mmorpg.com and only a small part realy come alot here and make topics or reply, while there millions and millions of players out there who love the mass themepark style games.
Lets hope darkfall and mortal online(still have my doubs about this one) will succeed in bringing back sandbox mmo's as a mmorpg like i see it should be made hehe.
Were not a niche. Players aren't given the option between a sandbox and Everquest clone. All those games listen on the left of this forum are Everquest clones (except of course WWIIONLINE and Planetside). Players are given no options, we have a choice between a Model-T, and a Model-T hatchback.
My favorite MMO is WWIIONLINE and I'm one of them carebears. Go figure huh.
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
And the PK'er gets on his second account, kills himself and collects the bounty. This bounty system issue has been around since UO and never been fixed.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
And what you describe is something we will never, ever see again in a MMO.
Even darkfall will have guards in towns and penalties for PKing.
So I guess your beloved savior of FFA won't be a savior after all.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Why do all of these sandbox mmo posts lead to a ffa pvp topic?
Sandbox mmo doesn't equal ffa pvp.
We can easily make pvp meaningful by having decaying armor/weapons and set a loot generator system on bodies looted in pvp.
Let's say you kill a person in pvp, you would get a random drop and a couple crafting materials.
While the person ganked gets a big repair bill and after repairing specific armor and weapons a few times it becomes unwearable.
Lets make the killed player not able to fight after being ganked for 15 minutes so you don't have the noob rushing you over and over again like players do in wow.
Reward for PKing and risk for the ganked.
If you would like a penalty for PKing make the PKer not be allowed in towns for an hour after PKing.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
1. Putting Eve and WoW in the same sentence during a pvp convo is a disgrace to Eve.
2. What do you lose in WoW when you get killed in pvp? not a god damn thing!
3. It's impossible to gank low levels in Eve.
4. PVP happens in EVERY section of space in Eve not just 0.0
5. The majority of pvp in WoW is in battlegrounds so no they don't have similar mechanics.
6. there's more pvp action in high sec space in Eve than there is in all of WoW's high level zones put together.
7. Can i stop now? cause talking about WoW's pvp made me throw up in my mouth a little.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
As long the so called free for all pvp games have all kinds of saveguards build in there game so carebears dont have much risk been ganked, but pk is punished for been a true ffa pvp player, it will fail yes.
If a game is tagged ffa pvp it should be free for all, so all who make a avatar on such server, you risk been ganked pked corpse camp, when you still whine your just on wrong server and should be playing on a pve server instead, its as simple as that.
How absurd can you be? You really think that the world is free for all? Barbarism is the days when everything is "almost" FFA and we call them the dark days in history, where civilisation collapsed, trade collapse, population dwindled till even the FFA have no one else to kill, one one else to trade with, no one else to talk to. You think that is glorified?
So you imagine a game in which you can kill anyone you want, and yet NPCs will be there to serve you, love you, kiss you a** and repair your armor, sell you food, sell you arrows. Oh great you have real logic.
So you imagine a game in which you can recklessly ambush and kill anyone you want, and these RL people would have to team with you, go explore with you, let you backstab them when they go pull a mob for the TEAM to work out. AND you have the balls to suggest that these other people will love you, adore you, play with you, pay for the game, the account, spend the time in the game and be AMBUSHED by you. Oh great, hate to tell you this, you stink, I do not want you to be in my game, and I definitely do not want to be in a game with you around.
So you imagine you are a good customer? Drive most players away till the game becomes a ghost town while you camp the new player spawn point hoping for the next player, who might never show up, as the game is driven to the point of extinction by your malicious behaviour. Wake up call. Developers do not make those kind of games because they hate you too, and they make sure you behave yourself when playing in their game, and they do so by making it NOT free for all.
Many sane people in MMORPG has already pointed out that sandbox is not the same thing as FFA PKing. Even SWG in its hey days are not necessary FFA. IF I do not flag myself, I can still fool around and be freed from pkers, provided that I do not accidentally hit a flagged player (AoE is bad when an empire AT runs past). I used to be sympathetic to the PVP goers who seek more freedom in game mechanics. But after reading enough rants here, I come to despise them. They care not for game mechanics, for game enjoyment, for game immersion, for other people who also want good times in a game. They only want unrestricted freedom to grief and hurt people till everyone leave the game. They are like parasites leeching a game till it dies and move onto the next game.
Rude reply to you so called sandbox lovers, who are actually griefers in disguise. No, not everyone wants to play with you. There are enough who do not want you, these people form another gamer community served by pve game developers. They know your rants and have come to the decision NOT to have you on board. Repeating those rants only reinforce our strong sense of relief that we have left you aside when finding our games. Good, you are not playing with us, and good we feel good.
As for the true sandbox gamers, who look for freedom of exploration, less restriction in class structures, and so on, that is another story altogether.
Sandbox is sandbox, FFA PVP is FFA PVP. The two game concepts are distinct.
Sandbox meand freedom. FFAPvP is freedom. Thats why thay go hand in hand.
But in sandbox there is no levels, so there is no lowlevels to gank. I hate when people talk about FFAPvP as it only have to do with idiotes. Im a RPer and need FFAPvP to roleplay.
This system is 100% made to protect the carebear so its carebear system.
Its also used in lineage2 that game is even more carebear becouse of many savezones you have and easy portalling away.
Only true hardcore system is where all players always are 100% of time red and always can be full looted, your clanmates your faction even your party memebers who you always can kill and loot and no savezones at all thats hardcore not what you discribe.
And what you describe is something we will never, ever see again in a MMO.
Even darkfall will have guards in towns and penalties for PKing.
So I guess your beloved savior of FFA won't be a savior after all.
Darkfall have alignment yes but, its not that importend there are also pk citys and you can also build your own ganksquad city.
Darkfall is not item based so again you dont have to rely much on gear you just pk others loot them and have good gear from them.
Guards of your enemys yes who cares, im 100% sure that the hardcore clans in darkfall will attack most on sight becouse there is so much freedom and a huge world with so many posibillity's that alignment and guards not realy matter only for those who are solo or casual and dont want to be hated to much.
Darkfall is an open pvp game with total freedom the game i describe is darkfall and savior of FFA.
Only whiners are affraid of alignment systems and guards not true hardcore ANTI and RPK.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
PvP occurs anywhere in EVE so your example fails. please play a game before trying to talk about it.