That is the inherent problem with ffa pvp tho. It ends up being "dood look at what I can do to this noob". That is part of the reason why faction based pvp has become more popular.
Anyone who wants ffa to ever come back in any kind of real capacity needs to realize some concessions will need to be made.
I read some of what everyone said but I decided I have my own opinion anyways. Alright, so I like PvP and all but it’s very hard to make it work properly. My best knowledge is of UO, which I played for a long time. They had bounties for murderers in the towns but if you made a high bounty for someone’s head then their buddy would kill the guy and get your gold and give it TO the murderer! Doesn’t work.
Next you mentioned in the OP was the consequences. The murderers turned RED after awhile and couldn’t go in towns or they were killed on sight by guards and people. And if the murderer rezed without a shrine he lost a % of ALL his skills permanently! Really all this did was made it mostly a terrible decision to PvP random people. It out casted them mostly forever from town and society forever. It worked okay back then but I don’t think people would go for that anymore, well not 98% of the MMO population. No one wants their character to get banished from towns forever (a long time anyways) and constantly hunted by every player in the game. Sure it was their decision to do that but people don’t like harsh penalties for doing evil things anymore. Plus it takes away from being able to do anything you want. After you do that, you more or less have to hide somewhere for many many hours to unturn red before you can PLAY the game anymore.
So you could join one of the two factions at the time. But then you could be killed in town, no questions asked. So if you tried to go to town to do some banking or some selling, a horde of the other faction would come and gank you over and over again. This will make you /quitgame or at least leave the faction after a few days. People don’t want to be killed everywhere they go all the time.
Next, FFA PvP doesn’t make the game feel like a sandbox really. You can’t do whatever you want when everyone is trying to kill you! You can’t go mine in a cave and not get PKed, or go hunt a dragon without someone coming and PKing. There’s a clear and obvious reason Trammel was invented in UO and its here to stay forever people. You can have an RPG get better and better system mixed with FPS everyone is on the same level and only skill is involved setup, at least not until the max “level” or skills are reached anyways. It doesn’t migrate tons of new peoples to play the game when 50% of the server is maxed on skills or levels and they just follow you around and kill you because they have nothing else to do anymore. That doesn’t make the game immersive or fun.
I loved UO and I always will, but those times are gone and they aren’t coming back. Any game that is claiming they are going to is going to have a very hard time in this market and never amount to much of anything. And in all honesty, it’s the right direction. Games, even MMOs, are games. They are made to have fun and that’s it. If you want a game where you have all this strife and hardship throughout the game because in the end if makes you feel like you accomplished something more, I won’t be the last to tell you that you didn’t accomplish anything in reality, it’s still a game.
Sandbox meand freedom. FFAPvP is freedom. Thats why thay go hand in hand. But in sandbox there is no levels, so there is no lowlevels to gank. I hate when people talk about FFAPvP as it only have to do with idiotes. Im a RPer and need FFAPvP to roleplay.
"SANDBOX" is where kids go to build sand castles, and change the terrain around. That word applied to a game has nothing to do with "levels" or "PVP".
Ultima Online and SWG were the only real sandboxes, you could build houses and change the terrain in a persistant world.
MMORPGs are games with very high potential. Unfortunately, I believe that games falling in this category these years are not on the right track at all. What is a MMORPG? Well, it depends who you ask the question I guess. Personnally I would say that a MMORPG is supposed to be a believable online virtual world where people can do pretty much whatever they want. Killing monsters, killing other players, forming clans and guilds, trading goods, participating in epic battles, controlling strategic territories, building cities, building a house, building a ship and discover the world, anything really... as long as you are free. Unfortunately, it seems that most MMO developers don't agree with this definition. For most of them, a MMORPG consists of an online virtual world (so far so good) where every players start at level 1 and gain additional levels through a few game mechanics like questing, farming and pvping. When a player reach the level cap, we present him the "end-game content" in order to keep him interested for a while. The end-game consists of massive "PvE raids" that rewards the player with good weapons and good armor or other PvP scripted events.
It's not that all of these things suck, it's more that this is not what a MMORPG should be. I think players are ready for a true sandbox game. Enough of these artificial worlds full of in-game rules and boundaries. Just give us a world and we'll play with it. Now about the thing called "PvP", I have to say this : It should be possible to be attacked anytime by anyone anywhere! Yes this is what we call open pvp, but I prefer to describe it this way : A virtual world should be full of monsters, full of players and full of other dangers. You should NEVER be 100% safe just because you are in a village. Warn you, I am more into PvE than PvP so I know I would be the first to be pissed off if I got killed in a village by some idiot screaming "W0ot! pwnd n0ob!". Instead of crying to a GM however, how about forming a small clan with 3-4 friends to kick the ass of this jerk and loot his corpse stealing all his precious equipment while we're at it? Don't like encounters against other players at all? Ok, fine... how about travelling to a small unknown place in the world, build a house and try to form a small and peaceful community right there? Don't you think that it would be way better than some enforced rule that protects you from other players under certain conditions (difference in levels, safe zones, etc).
A game like Darkfall (if it ever becomes a game) might be the first to allow all this kind of freedom and immersion. What they promise is almost exactly what I am describing here... but I guess we'll have to wait and see. What's your take on sandbox-like mmorpgs?
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
A game like Darkfall (if it ever becomes a game) might be the first to allow all this kind of freedom and immersion. What they promise is almost exactly what I am describing here... but I guess we'll have to wait and see. What's your take on sandbox-like mmorpgs?
Actually the first such game was Ultima Online
The 2nd was EVE Online
A close runner up for 2nd (3rd) was Star Wars Galaxies (before the NGE).
Saga of Ryzom was also built along these lines but is level based rather than purely skill tree based... though it does offer a great deal of freedom in the game.
Asheron's Call, on the Darktide server, was also similar in style to sandbox games though it was never a true sandbox it came pretty close.
There were a few others but those are the best of them... and generally the most well-known.
And, I agree, sandbox MMORPG's have really started to fade from the MMORPG genre, which is a shame, really. Considering how well both UO and EVE have done the genre really needs another solid sandbox title. I, too, am watching Darkfall but at this point have given up on any hope of it ever being released. I started considering Darkfall vaporware a very long time ago...
You never played a skill-based game at all have you. There is no such thing as a "low skill area". Let's go with EVE since that's popular. Please do share where the low skill areas are
Low skill area would be the higher security areas. But Eve is set up different then most games.
[/quote]
Hate to break this to you but there are just as many "lowbies" in EVE in 0.0 as there are in high-sec.... there are also more vets in 'high sec' than you seem to realize.
There is no 'safe space' in EVE... there is 'safer' space but you can be attacked and killed anywhere in game except inside a space station. As to lowbies? Until they join a player corporation they are very well protected for the most part if they stay in 'high sec'. As are vets that are in npc corps as well. They're not 100% safe but they are pretty well protected unless they do something insane like fly a T1 hauler with hundreds of millions of isk in assets stuffed inside it
And once a newer player joins a player corporation? Given that most player corporations either live in 0.0 or have access to it? It thus translates that a very large chunk of newer players wind up in 0.0 as well.
There is also the simple FACT that in EVE a vet is very killable... even by lower skilled players.
So is a level 70 character very killable in WOW, get 2 level 70 characters to gank em.
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
I already play real life, I don't need to play a 2nd one. People like to get to kill people in a game without consequence because exactly that, they CAN'T in real life. Ask any gamer that's 23+ or so, they play games to escape reality and DEstress. The last thing I want to do is come home and have more stress and hardship. I used to believe in this theory of FFA PvP and still do sandbox in general.
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
I already play real life, I don't need to play a 2nd one. People like to get to kill people in a game without consequence because exactly that, they CAN'T in real life. Ask any gamer that's 23+ or so, they play games to escape reality and DEstress. The last thing I want to do is come home and have more stress and hardship. I used to believe in this theory of FFA PvP and still do sandbox in general.
and there will always be those who like it like you do and those who bitch and complain cause there isnt any thing to keep them from being ganked or griefed
Originally posted by Midnitte There was already a game that offered such freedom, well before Darkfall. It's forums are now filled with current players and angry veterans.I agree with your definition of an MMO and indeed your vision, (and while I still enjoy WoW) I wish future games can stay away from such boring "grinds", good thing I should have enough other games from different genres to keep me busy until a good mmo comes out. (thank god for L4D)
There is again such a game, called Ryzom.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Personally, I like the general direction MMORPGs are headed. The G, after all, stands for Game, and I like my games to have goals, progression paths, quests, etc. While there currently aren't any games that really strike my fancy right now, I think once a company breaks away from the current fad it could prove... refreshing.
What 's referred to as sandbox MMOs strike me more as being "sims" rather than "games." Enter a world, do whatever you choose, build the world yourselves, lead a "simulated" life in a dynamic world with no linearity. The biggest problem I see with making a world with too much freedom and not enough rules as that the player-base itself will inevitably ruin it. The majority of people will, of course, play the game the way it's meant to be played, build their homes, have fun, etc. But, similarly to real life, there will be just enough people who go against the grain and completely destroy someone else's immersive experience. Unfortunately, unlike real life, there wouldn't be laws or rules in place to take care of these people. Now you might say that it should be up to the player-base to keep these people in line, forming laws and rules of their own that the populace as a whole would enforce. The problem is, this works in real life because people have something to lose. In a video game, there's no real risk involved - there's nothing to lose except maybe having your character die. No big deal - come back to life or make a new one. Remember, there are some people out there who draw their own satisfaction from taking away from other peoples' enjoyment, and there's nothing you can really do to stop them from playing or to make them follow your own player-made rules if they don't want to.
So a game definitely needs some kind of rules structure. The next question is, where to you draw the line between freedom and rules? How can you give them the freedom to do whatever they want, and yet still protect them from those "bad" people?
Personally, I like the general direction MMORPGs are headed. The G, after all, stands for Game, and I like my games to have goals, progression paths, quests, etc. While there currently aren't any games that really strike my fancy right now, I think once a company breaks away from the current fad it could prove... refreshing. What 's referred to as sandbox MMOs strike me more as being "sims" rather than "games." Enter a world, do whatever you choose, build the world yourselves, lead a "simulated" life in a dynamic world with no linearity. The biggest problem I see with making a world with too much freedom and not enough rules as that the player-base itself will inevitably ruin it. The majority of people will, of course, play the game the way it's meant to be played, build their homes, have fun, etc. But, similarly to real life, there will be just enough people who go against the grain and completely destroy someone else's immersive experience. Unfortunately, unlike real life, there wouldn't be laws or rules in place to take care of these people. Now you might say that it should be up to the player-base to keep these people in line, forming laws and rules of their own that the populace as a whole would enforce. The problem is, this works in real life because people have something to lose. In a video game, there's no real risk involved - there's nothing to lose except maybe having your character die. No big deal - come back to life or make a new one. Remember, there are some people out there who draw their own satisfaction from taking away from other peoples' enjoyment, and there's nothing you can really do to stop them from playing or to make them follow your own player-made rules if they don't want to. So a game definitely needs some kind of rules structure. The next question is, where to you draw the line between freedom and rules? How can you give them the freedom to do whatever they want, and yet still protect them from those "bad" people?
I can't remember any other player in (old) SWG rooning my experience. Every encounter was interesting, even encountering overpowered creature handlers with my underpowered ranger, I thought their different pets were cool.
Originally posted by Nerf09 Originally posted by PatchDay Originally posted by Nerf09 High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
PvP occurs anywhere in EVE so your example fails. please play a game before trying to talk about it. PvP occurs only in the high level zones, just like WOW.
A belief shared by many people who don't understand the game. Some people have learned differently only when they become floating space debris. PvP in high-sec space is *regulated*, by CONCORD and the empires, but you are free to open fire on anyone at any time.
There was already a game that offered such freedom, well before Darkfall. It's forums are now filled with current players and angry veterans.
I agree with your definition of an MMO and indeed your vision, (and while I still enjoy WoW) I wish future games can stay away from such boring "grinds", good thing I should have enough other games from different genres to keep me busy until a good mmo comes out. (thank god for L4D)
There is again such a game, called Ryzom.
Ryzom is a pretty good game I've been playing it lately
Based on my experiences and knowledge, open PvP won't work on a grand scale on a long term, unless there are penalties for double-teaming and killing less-skilled/lower-leveled players. Devs need to look outside the box.
Personally, I want to try out Mortal Online. The combat I imagined seems fun.
Once a company takes Eve's set up and ports it to a fantasy game all will be right with the world.
Nah, what we need is EvE's design with a better ( more active, less boring ) combat system and a combination of time based skill training with active skill training ( in other words, advance your skills by using them )
I actually like it that EvE is a scifi game.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I have a serious problem with attack-anyone-anywhere style PvP.
In the most popular MMO of all time, Real Life, if you attack someone you can be seriously injured or even killed (permadeath) in the attempt. Even if that is not the case, there are still heavy penalties, including isolating from the main portion of the game for years at a time. If you succeed and kill another person, you may even be caught and killed (and there's no coming back from this). So, there is a whole lot of incentive to get along with other people!
Compare this to a game like Eve where there is no law, trying to enforce the law is like trying to prosecute a particular John Smith in New York City when you don't even know his face. People kill other people just because they can, and even if they die in the attempt, they just hop into another ship and keep on doing it. Thus, rather than the game being one that fosters cooperating and, gasp, multiplayer style play, the asshats push out the rest of the other players and even the ones that remain tend to be highly suspicious of random people that are not already part of a particular clique.
Attack anyone anywhere should only be possible when there are very, very serious consequences for doing so. Something like WoW's two sides at least gives players some people they can trust by default.
I don't know why developers, or their bosses, feel that they have to hold the gamers' hands and walk them through the world, but that seems to be the trend for new MMOs these days.
Because that's what sells.
Despite us depth appreciating gamers being the vocal minority online; people want casual and simple in their mmo's.
Originally posted by Mylon I have a serious problem with attack-anyone-anywhere style PvP.In the most popular MMO of all time, Real Life, if you attack someone you can be seriously injured or even killed (permadeath) in the attempt. Even if that is not the case, there are still heavy penalties, including isolating from the main portion of the game for years at a time. If you succeed and kill another person, you may even be caught and killed (and there's no coming back from this). So, there is a whole lot of incentive to get along with other people!Compare this to a game like Eve where there is no law, trying to enforce the law is like trying to prosecute a particular John Smith in New York City when you don't even know his face. People kill other people just because they can, and even if they die in the attempt, they just hop into another ship and keep on doing it. Thus, rather than the game being one that fosters cooperating and, gasp, multiplayer style play, the asshats push out the rest of the other players and even the ones that remain tend to be highly suspicious of random people that are not already part of a particular clique.Attack anyone anywhere should only be possible when there are very, very serious consequences for doing so. Something like WoW's two sides at least gives players some people they can trust by default.
I only want to quote this.... simply because its the truth. UO once was great before they separated the PVP and PVE because there were consequences in place that you were bound to. Though in those early times, there were a different breed of gamers. PVP meant something else, it wasn't about just killing any random person, there was meaning... purpose behind killing another player.
PVP wasn't always about blind murder, FPS kill'em up, rack'em up leaderboard rankings.
I see no need for ffapvp. I don't mind pvp the way it was set up in DAoC. But if I wanted to worry about casualties of puberty killing me I would go back to work at the prison. Give me my quests, factions and zones where I know I am vulnerable to pvp and it is optional.
I don't know why developers, or their bosses, feel that they have to hold the gamers' hands and walk them through the world, but that seems to be the trend for new MMOs these days.
Because that's what sells.
Despite us depth appreciating gamers being the vocal minority online; people want casual and simple in their mmo's.
I'd agree with you on the simple part but what does casual have to do with it. But maybe my defination of casual and yours are different, I thought UO was very casual friendly game.
Comments
That is the inherent problem with ffa pvp tho. It ends up being "dood look at what I can do to this noob". That is part of the reason why faction based pvp has become more popular.
Anyone who wants ffa to ever come back in any kind of real capacity needs to realize some concessions will need to be made.
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
1. Putting Eve and WoW in the same sentence during a pvp convo is a disgrace to Eve.
Your right, PvP in WOW is better. You actually have to hunt someone down in the world, not camp a gate.
2. What do you lose in WoW when you get killed in pvp? not a god damn thing!
So when you get ganked at the gate you don't lose months or years of grinding, sounds great.
3. It's impossible to gank low levels in Eve.
Not impossible, happens all the time.
4. PVP happens in EVERY section of space in Eve not just 0.0
PvP happens in every PvP and NEUTRAL zone in WOW.
5. The majority of pvp in WoW is in battlegrounds so no they don't have similar mechanics.
The majority of PvP in Eve is camping the gate. That makes WOW PvP superior.
6. there's more pvp action in high sec space in Eve than there is in all of WoW's high level zones put together.
Actually I saw more PvP world zone action in WOW. Was only ganked twice in EVE, was gakned more times in WOW PVP servers.
7. Can i stop now? cause talking about WoW's pvp made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Yeah its funny when EVE players look down their nose at WOW, not realizing the PVP game mechanics are almost identical.
I read some of what everyone said but I decided I have my own opinion anyways. Alright, so I like PvP and all but it’s very hard to make it work properly. My best knowledge is of UO, which I played for a long time. They had bounties for murderers in the towns but if you made a high bounty for someone’s head then their buddy would kill the guy and get your gold and give it TO the murderer! Doesn’t work.
"SANDBOX" is where kids go to build sand castles, and change the terrain around. That word applied to a game has nothing to do with "levels" or "PVP".
Ultima Online and SWG were the only real sandboxes, you could build houses and change the terrain in a persistant world.
PvP in EVE is exactly like a PvP server in WOW. The 'good loot' is in the PvP zones, and you gank lowbies for kicks.
High level zones = 0.0 space, just like in WOW. Same game mechanics. Why would you not see the similarity?
PvP occurs anywhere in EVE so your example fails. please play a game before trying to talk about it.
PvP occurs only in the high level zones, just like WOW.
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
Actually the first such game was Ultima Online
The 2nd was EVE Online
A close runner up for 2nd (3rd) was Star Wars Galaxies (before the NGE).
Saga of Ryzom was also built along these lines but is level based rather than purely skill tree based... though it does offer a great deal of freedom in the game.
Asheron's Call, on the Darktide server, was also similar in style to sandbox games though it was never a true sandbox it came pretty close.
There were a few others but those are the best of them... and generally the most well-known.
And, I agree, sandbox MMORPG's have really started to fade from the MMORPG genre, which is a shame, really. Considering how well both UO and EVE have done the genre really needs another solid sandbox title. I, too, am watching Darkfall but at this point have given up on any hope of it ever being released. I started considering Darkfall vaporware a very long time ago...
Eve Online isn't a sandbox game.
You never played a skill-based game at all have you. There is no such thing as a "low skill area". Let's go with EVE since that's popular. Please do share where the low skill areas are
Low skill area would be the higher security areas. But Eve is set up different then most games.
[/quote]
Hate to break this to you but there are just as many "lowbies" in EVE in 0.0 as there are in high-sec.... there are also more vets in 'high sec' than you seem to realize.
There is no 'safe space' in EVE... there is 'safer' space but you can be attacked and killed anywhere in game except inside a space station. As to lowbies? Until they join a player corporation they are very well protected for the most part if they stay in 'high sec'. As are vets that are in npc corps as well. They're not 100% safe but they are pretty well protected unless they do something insane like fly a T1 hauler with hundreds of millions of isk in assets stuffed inside it
And once a newer player joins a player corporation? Given that most player corporations either live in 0.0 or have access to it? It thus translates that a very large chunk of newer players wind up in 0.0 as well.
There is also the simple FACT that in EVE a vet is very killable... even by lower skilled players.
So is a level 70 character very killable in WOW, get 2 level 70 characters to gank em.
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
I already play real life, I don't need to play a 2nd one. People like to get to kill people in a game without consequence because exactly that, they CAN'T in real life. Ask any gamer that's 23+ or so, they play games to escape reality and DEstress. The last thing I want to do is come home and have more stress and hardship. I used to believe in this theory of FFA PvP and still do sandbox in general.
the ffa pvp is a good idea. in real life anyone at anytime if they are wiling or crazy enough can attack you and or kill you. Then after your lying dead on the ground they can do whatever they want to your corpse. the only difference from real life and game life. in real land you get arrested if the cops catch you then you either go to jail forever or get the death penatly. in game land you just rez at your bind point and keep going with no penalty what so ever and the criminal never has to worry about consequences.
so!!!!!!!!!! in a sandbox mmo with ffa pvp. make a law system for in cities. if you commit a crime against another player in a city and a npc see it, they can report your ass to the law upholders and you either go to jail for a certain period of time, get fined heavily, or get executed . death would have to mean something to. im sick of all these mmo's now a days have nothing to fear from dying.
but, say your out in the world with nobody around for miles and a psycho axe wielding player cuts your arms and legs off and steals your sh*t then damn sucks to be you. kinda would be like history in the dark ages. there was law but if nobody was around to see it then oh well.
this old 2d game i played online before eq had a strict law system intact for all sorts of things and it really kept people in line, like actually society that we all live in.
and if a player goes postal on people in town and manages to escape to the wilds. put a bounty up on his ass and see who can bring his head back.
I already play real life, I don't need to play a 2nd one. People like to get to kill people in a game without consequence because exactly that, they CAN'T in real life. Ask any gamer that's 23+ or so, they play games to escape reality and DEstress. The last thing I want to do is come home and have more stress and hardship. I used to believe in this theory of FFA PvP and still do sandbox in general.
and there will always be those who like it like you do and those who bitch and complain cause there isnt any thing to keep them from being ganked or griefed
There is again such a game, called Ryzom.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Personally, I like the general direction MMORPGs are headed. The G, after all, stands for Game, and I like my games to have goals, progression paths, quests, etc. While there currently aren't any games that really strike my fancy right now, I think once a company breaks away from the current fad it could prove... refreshing.
What 's referred to as sandbox MMOs strike me more as being "sims" rather than "games." Enter a world, do whatever you choose, build the world yourselves, lead a "simulated" life in a dynamic world with no linearity. The biggest problem I see with making a world with too much freedom and not enough rules as that the player-base itself will inevitably ruin it. The majority of people will, of course, play the game the way it's meant to be played, build their homes, have fun, etc. But, similarly to real life, there will be just enough people who go against the grain and completely destroy someone else's immersive experience. Unfortunately, unlike real life, there wouldn't be laws or rules in place to take care of these people. Now you might say that it should be up to the player-base to keep these people in line, forming laws and rules of their own that the populace as a whole would enforce. The problem is, this works in real life because people have something to lose. In a video game, there's no real risk involved - there's nothing to lose except maybe having your character die. No big deal - come back to life or make a new one. Remember, there are some people out there who draw their own satisfaction from taking away from other peoples' enjoyment, and there's nothing you can really do to stop them from playing or to make them follow your own player-made rules if they don't want to.
So a game definitely needs some kind of rules structure. The next question is, where to you draw the line between freedom and rules? How can you give them the freedom to do whatever they want, and yet still protect them from those "bad" people?
I can't remember any other player in (old) SWG rooning my experience. Every encounter was interesting, even encountering overpowered creature handlers with my underpowered ranger, I thought their different pets were cool.
PvP occurs only in the high level zones, just like WOW.
A belief shared by many people who don't understand the game. Some people have learned differently only when they become floating space debris. PvP in high-sec space is *regulated*, by CONCORD and the empires, but you are free to open fire on anyone at any time.
It's fairly obvious griefers and gankers want PVP, turning a nice little sandbox disgussion into another theological disgussion on PVP.
If you want to play a real PVP MMO where the time spent grinding = effectiveness of PVP doesn't apply, then play this game:
There is again such a game, called Ryzom.
Ryzom is a pretty good game I've been playing it lately
Based on my experiences and knowledge, open PvP won't work on a grand scale on a long term, unless there are penalties for double-teaming and killing less-skilled/lower-leveled players. Devs need to look outside the box.
Personally, I want to try out Mortal Online. The combat I imagined seems fun.
www.oblinq.com/SnowmonkeysTemple/
Once a company takes Eve's set up and ports it to a fantasy game all will be right with the world.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Nah, what we need is EvE's design with a better ( more active, less boring ) combat system and a combination of time based skill training with active skill training ( in other words, advance your skills by using them )
I actually like it that EvE is a scifi game.
Greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I have a serious problem with attack-anyone-anywhere style PvP.
In the most popular MMO of all time, Real Life, if you attack someone you can be seriously injured or even killed (permadeath) in the attempt. Even if that is not the case, there are still heavy penalties, including isolating from the main portion of the game for years at a time. If you succeed and kill another person, you may even be caught and killed (and there's no coming back from this). So, there is a whole lot of incentive to get along with other people!
Compare this to a game like Eve where there is no law, trying to enforce the law is like trying to prosecute a particular John Smith in New York City when you don't even know his face. People kill other people just because they can, and even if they die in the attempt, they just hop into another ship and keep on doing it. Thus, rather than the game being one that fosters cooperating and, gasp, multiplayer style play, the asshats push out the rest of the other players and even the ones that remain tend to be highly suspicious of random people that are not already part of a particular clique.
Attack anyone anywhere should only be possible when there are very, very serious consequences for doing so. Something like WoW's two sides at least gives players some people they can trust by default.
Because that's what sells.
Despite us depth appreciating gamers being the vocal minority online; people want casual and simple in their mmo's.
PVP wasn't always about blind murder, FPS kill'em up, rack'em up leaderboard rankings.
Well, you dont want a sandbox mmo.
People who want casual and simple, don't really want an MMO. They should probably just be playing Pinochle, or Pitfall Online.
That is what is happening. People who really have no interest in an MMORPG are walking up to MMO developers and saying, "Entertain Me!"
Developers just need to learn how to give directions to other genres.
Because that's what sells.
Despite us depth appreciating gamers being the vocal minority online; people want casual and simple in their mmo's.
I'd agree with you on the simple part but what does casual have to do with it. But maybe my defination of casual and yours are different, I thought UO was very casual friendly game.