And sadely nobody yet gave a response... apart from the "go away carebear" useless comments.
We all know pvp in mmo is in conflict with the huge impact of character development, in opposit fps have great pvp but short life span; as short as their character devellopment .
And RvR can't be a very good response to it, it only reduce that problem a bit.
"Our pvp is bad but play in group it will be ok" is, and never were a good responce whatever fans say... Like it used to be, and still is every where in mmo wolrd, you can see the kind of comment "our game experience is boring as hell but play in group, it will be ok (damn its a mmo afterall)"... We all know the boring factor come as fast in a mmo as in a solo rpg game for a veteran of the mmo genre. It might be even shorter now (for me at least, and i pretty much played nothing else but mmo for more than 10years), and the quantity of veteran is not something to put aside for a developer.
So what really War offer about this? insight from a tester is welcome.
And sadely nobody yet gave a response... apart from the "go away carebear" useless comments.
We all know pvp in mmo is in conflict with the huge impact of character development, in opposit fps have great pvp but short life span; as short as their character devellopment . And RvR can't be a very good response to it, it only reduce that problem a bit. "Our pvp is bad but play in group it will be ok" is, and never were a good responce whatever fans say... Like it used to be, and still is every where in mmo wolrd, you can see the kind of comment "our game experience is boring as hell but play in group, it will be ok (damn its a mmo afterall)"... We all know the boring factor come as fast in a mmo as in a solo rpg game for a veteran of the mmo genre. It might be even shorter now (for me at least, and i pretty much played nothing else but mmo for more than 10years), and the quantity of veteran is not something to put aside for a developer.
So what really War offer about this? insight from a tester is welcome.
Also final RvR is instanced in War...
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people. It's an RVR game, and if you're not sold on the concept of RVR then WAR is not a game for you. As much as you may hate to hear it, you need to stop complaining that a spoon is not a fork, and go find something you can enjoy.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
First off, RvR is always about zerg fest. It's nearly impossible to level off a playing field in open world PvP. One side will always have more. try playing Hibernia in DAOc and you willl realize that some of the fin in RvR is overcoming the enemey zerg or vice versa.
In the last year WAR has been heavily advertised as a 2 faction RvR with 6 different perspectives to the war through races. I never once heard anything about 6 way RvR war. Just looking at the current set of classes, a 6 way war would have been completely unblanced since some races don't have healers while other do.
The game will have quite a bit of instancing for dungeons and battlegrounds style PvP. But it is clearly stated as a feature that players will be able to enter enemy territory to perform PvE quest under the danger of PvP. This means you travel into an open world where enemies from your server lurk about performing task. If it is instanced it would have somewhere near a 100 man cap which is more than enough for an epic battle anyways.
For someone reason, no one seems to mention anything about the living guilds or no-recipe crafting system.
And sadely nobody yet gave a response... apart from the "go away carebear" useless comments.
We all know pvp in mmo is in conflict with the huge impact of character development, in opposit fps have great pvp but short life span; as short as their character devellopment . And RvR can't be a very good response to it, it only reduce that problem a bit. "Our pvp is bad but play in group it will be ok" is, and never were a good responce whatever fans say... Like it used to be, and still is every where in mmo wolrd, you can see the kind of comment "our game experience is boring as hell but play in group, it will be ok (damn its a mmo afterall)"... We all know the boring factor come as fast in a mmo as in a solo rpg game for a veteran of the mmo genre. It might be even shorter now (for me at least, and i pretty much played nothing else but mmo for more than 10years), and the quantity of veteran is not something to put aside for a developer.
So what really War offer about this? insight from a tester is welcome.
Also final RvR is instanced in War...
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
Indeed RPG and PvP are not necessarily at odds, but the discussion was: if the RvR found in WAR is as original as it once sounded a few years ago.
WAR is indeed a cross between Wow/DAoC, and I quite don't understand these guys who keep yelling "I hate BG's" now come up with the fact that scenarios and other instanced capitol comabt are the next invention of human science.
The same with the term RvR itself: gone are the Army identities: it's pure one on one with class difference (for God's sake you have ONE orc and not even knights in Empire).
The only aspect of the game that stays up (till now at least) is that all you do is related to the war effort. If you would call this RvR ok, np. But don't try to sell something that isn't there.
And sadely nobody yet gave a response... apart from the "go away carebear" useless comments.
We all know pvp in mmo is in conflict with the huge impact of character development, in opposit fps have great pvp but short life span; as short as their character devellopment . And RvR can't be a very good response to it, it only reduce that problem a bit. "Our pvp is bad but play in group it will be ok" is, and never were a good responce whatever fans say... Like it used to be, and still is every where in mmo wolrd, you can see the kind of comment "our game experience is boring as hell but play in group, it will be ok (damn its a mmo afterall)"... We all know the boring factor come as fast in a mmo as in a solo rpg game for a veteran of the mmo genre. It might be even shorter now (for me at least, and i pretty much played nothing else but mmo for more than 10years), and the quantity of veteran is not something to put aside for a developer.
So what really War offer about this? insight from a tester is welcome.
Also final RvR is instanced in War...
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
Indeed RPG and PvP are not necessarily at odds, but the discussion was: if the RvR found in WAR is as original as it once sounded a few years ago.
WAR is indeed a cross between Wow/DAoC, and I quite don't understand these guys who keep yelling "I hate BG's" now come up with the fact that scenarios and other instanced capitol comabt are the next invention of human science.
The same with the term RvR itself: gone are the Army identities: it's pure one on one with class difference (for God's sake you have ONE orc and not even knights in Empire).
The only aspect of the game that stays up (till now at least) is that all you do is related to the war effort. If you would call this RvR ok, np. But don't try to sell something that isn't there.
The point is this: either you accept the game as it is designed, or you don't. I will never understand what has happened to the MMO community; in no other genre of video game do you see people complaining about games not being something they never set out to be. I wouldn't go to Soul Calibur forums and complain about the game not having the diplomacy and warfare options found in the Civilization series, and if I did I would be rightly told to GTFO and go to Civilization forums.
OP is clearly not sold on WAR's concept. There is nothing wrong with that; it's just a game that's not up his alley. It doesn't mean the game is going to fail, it doesn't mean I am a better person than he is because I like what Mythic is doing. Instead of trying to delude himself into believing hype about the game, he needs to go with his own gut instinct and opinion that it's not the game for him. That's what this is about.
First off, RvR is always about zerg fest. It's nearly impossible to level off a playing field in open world PvP. One side will always have more. try playing Hibernia in DAOc and you willl realize that some of the fin in RvR is overcoming the enemey zerg or vice versa. In the last year WAR has been heavily advertised as a 2 faction RvR with 6 different perspectives to the war through races. I never once heard anything about 6 way RvR war. Just looking at the current set of classes, a 6 way war would have been completely unblanced since some races don't have healers while other do. The game will have quite a bit of instancing for dungeons and battlegrounds style PvP. But it is clearly stated as a feature that players will be able to enter enemy territory to perform PvE quest under the danger of PvP. This means you travel into an open world where enemies from your server lurk about performing task. If it is instanced it would have somewhere near a 100 man cap which is more than enough for an epic battle anyways.
For someone reason, no one seems to mention anything about the living guilds or no-recipe crafting system.
RvR in WAR for 3(!) years was ALL about 3vs3 basic fighting (with each Army helping each other out in the RvR concept). It was the good vs the evil guys but STILL it had Army identities.
I clearly said 65% of the END content (by scrapping >4 of the 6 capitols). Pairings were NOT flavor for 2 years. Just look at the old videos promoting the 3vs3 aspect. By 95% of the fighting I clearly meant of course the PvP scenarios - with mostly 12 vs 12 and the occasional 18vs18 limit). It is clear that these instanced BG's will prime the so called World PvP you talk about by a wide margin (80% - 95% who cares, it is NO world PvP). So keep up the hope and hope those programmers work hard the next few days.
Haha you are obviously not in the beta , everything you say is 100% wrong go troll somewhere else.
BTW they NEVER promoted 3 vs 3 , i follow this game since a year and a half and it was always ORDER VS DESTRUCTION .
The main draw of the gameplay for me is just finally getting a modern game with some real support behind focused on large scale pvp.
The fact that it's in a fantasy setting that I've loved for a long time was the initial draw, but I being able to log in to a game and spend hours simply fighting chaotic battles nonstop while progressing a character just was sorely needed.
If this game delivers then that's enough for me, need something like this to even energize me about this entire genre anymore. Just want to play an online game that is frantic and fun while still getting my "rpg character development" fix.
I clearly said 65% of the END content (by scrapping >4 of the 6 capitols). Pairings were NOT flavor for 2 years. Just look at the old videos promoting the 3vs3 aspect. By 95% of the fighting I clearly meant of course the PvP scenarios - with mostly 12 vs 12 and the occasional 18vs18 limit). It is clear that these instanced BG's will prime the so called World PvP you talk about by a wide margin (80% - 95% who cares, it is NO world PvP). So keep up the hope and hope those programmers work hard the next few days.
Haha you are obviously not in the beta , everything you say is 100% wrong go troll somewhere else.
BTW they NEVER promoted 3 vs 3 , i follow this game since a year and a half and it was always ORDER VS DESTRUCTION .
This is where WowHammer looses me.
WARHAMMER WAS NEVER ABOUT A SIMPLE GOOD VS EVIL. It was each side being it's own. Undead many times was against goblins, high elves vs dwarves. This Good vs Evil garbage is bleh.
I truely wanted to like this game as I was a big fan of the old tabletop Warhammer.
Cartoony overhyped WoWhammer. I make it a lifes goal to stay far away from the WoW kiddies.
You all have fun with the G3ZKZRS PZWNSING people with the UBERL33T PAHWRZ
Ideally according to Warhammer lore, there is no order or destruction. However, in order to create a game it is imperitive that the game have two sides, and to do so without including both Chaos and Greenskin would be very problematic. Humans vs. Chaos is a sub setting, just like all the rvr subsets it is molded according to Warhammer lore. Now, the major problem here is that involving all the armies in the game without grouping them would create major balance issues. One or two races will be on top, with another close to them, but what about lowly numbers 4, 5, and 6? Those armies would obviously be unequipped to sustain themselves in a realistic gaming setting because honestly, we may want to be underdogs, but we definitely don't want being in insurmountable situations such as the lower half of the races would be in terms of strength.
I probably didn't convey much of that properly, its 6:30 AM, give me a break. :P
I'd like to point out to the people crying foul about cartoonish graphics and canon inconsistency...it was all approved by Games Workshop. Fact of the matter is, they think it properly represents their IP. Fans and authors will be at odds until the end of the universe about creative direction. A shining example is George Lucas and his desire for the movie canon to be the only true canon, with the expanded universe being a splinter. Star Wars lived long enough to make the prequel trilogy because of the fans devotion to the expanded universe. When pig face went and made the prequels, most of the die hard fans that loved the expanded universe turned the movies into total lynchings so to speak. As fans we want to believe we are entitled to what we want out of canon, or an IP, but the truth is we can only get what the author wants to give. Everyone can't be pleased, its a way of life.
As for the city cuts being a big deal. Yes, some what. However, if the cities were complete and in at launch, 2 of the 3 pairings would be imbalanced due to the cut classes. The classes are the biggest issue to begin with, as it is silly to ask Witch Hunters to play the role of tank/front line combatant. They aren't designed to be. Once/if these imbalances are sealed with the release of the 4 classes then I fully expect the cities won't be far behind. Co-ordinating the defense of 3 cities during launch would be extremely bumpy as well, its going to be difficult enough protecting one as the beta players are going to have a heads up but still can't teach someone how to fully play their class in a manner of minutes before the flood gates open and the enemy is standing in our door steps. Let the cities come as updates, it will revigorate any staleness that may be around each time a pair are released.
Another thing, the appeal of RvR is basically the fact that all of us who have lived and died with the currently horribly imbalanced PvP features in modern mmo's are going to finally have a chance to experience a true fantasy war and virtual chessmatch. It's a challenge that only one or two other games have ever presented(DAoC for one). It's something new in comparison to the regurgitated vomit of meaningless time sink grinding that MMO's churn out like clock work and call it content. You can dress a doll in several outfits, but at the end of the day its still the same damn doll you've been playing with all these years.
......Listen how the designer shows and explains the 3 vs 3 in a show case of the WAR atlas.
It is NOT ME who shows the Greenskins against Dwarfs fronts and respective capitols
It is NOT ME who shows the Empire against Chaos fronts and respective capitols.
THEY scrapped the capitols and Army identities.
Apparently you don't know anything about the game's history.
RvR???
You are just talking semantics. Yes they took out the capitol cities for the dwarf/orc and Highelf/Darkelf pairings, but at no point where the pairings seperate and inclusive initially. The 'battlefronts' you mention are still there, and the victory points still filter up to the T4 zones for each pairing, the only thing that has changed is that the point that control of the t4 zones now effects the empire/chaos cities instead of the original cities. Each race area is still functional and complete, as complete as the empire and chaos area (minus the capitol cities), they only changed it so the world victory points effect empire/chaos capitols, instead of effecting the capitols that they 'pushed back'.
Am I disappointed that the other capitols are missing? Hell yes, as a dwarf 'buff', I was crushed, but i'd rather they release 2 massive cities, find the bugs and the area's that are montonous and take what they learn and apply it in finishing up the other cities.
Currently the world RVR will focus around empire and chaos, but eventually they intend to put in the other cities. It's not like they where never created, they were in development, but where cut back to allow for Mythic to release in a timely manner.
And to answer the original poster: The thing that people are excited over are a mix of several things.
1) Realm pride: I can honestly say i have played with some tools but when it came to beat down to the other side, its all dropped because we are on the same team. Its hard to 'code' such a dynamic into a game, its either there or not, and for me, its definately there. Basically the game grabs you and draws you into empathizing with your realm
2) RVR done right. Not much to explain this, DAoC was a great game in its own right, which means that mythic has the experience with RVR to make it better.
3) The IP: I didn't play DAoC, but i dam well played warhammer, and the option of taking that game, that so many people loved, and take it into the MMO realm just excites many players.
There is other reasons, but as it is I think i'm skirting the NDA agreement, but since you are playing war still, i imagine you can think of the other 'neat' aspects of the game that while it doesn't have you as excited as some players, it still has you still playing
......Listen how the designer shows and explains the 3 vs 3 in a show case of the WAR atlas.
It is NOT ME who shows the Greenskins against Dwarfs fronts and respective capitols
It is NOT ME who shows the Empire against Chaos fronts and respective capitols.
THEY scrapped the capitols and Army identities.
Apparently you don't know anything about the game's history.
RvR???
It has always been Order Versus Destruction where each realm consisted of 3 races and there is a total of 3 racial pairings. This has never changed from the start and still hasn't changed now. The only difference is the lack of capitols for Dwarf V Greenskin and High Elf V Dark Elf. They are still Three warfronts for those races, but they are just funneled towards one common goal now instead of 3 different goals.
You make it sound like they meshed the Three warfronts into one big giant one, but that is completely untrue.
What the HELL is so amazing? I will try to explain:
1. Action starts at lvl 1. There are a total of 40 levels and there is NO grind whatsoever.
2. You can earn XP from public quests, regular quests, killing mobs, killing OTHER players, or through exploration.
3. There are 80 PvP levels. It takes much slower to level in these. With those levels you get new abilities, stats and gear.
4. There is action everywhere, anytime. There are 3 battlefronts, 4 tiers in each. Each tier has 2 zones. Therefore a total of 24 battlefields in the OPEN WORLD concurrently. Plus there are a total of ~24 different (not the same) scenarios (instanced) like WoW battlegrounds. Not finished. There are keep battles, city battles which are different from these.
5. You can actually use siege weapons yourself to kill other players.
6. All classes are unique. You wont see stupid things like an Orc becoming a Warlock or rogue or a stupid 2 foot gnome wielding a 10 foot sword.
7. You can find groups anytime, anywhere. You see open groups when you enter a zone.
8. There is no lag. 100-200 people at the same battlefield will not cause any trouble. The game is almost complete and polished as it is.
9. The gear does not look crap. Skill > gear but your stats are actually working and through renown points (PvP levels) or gear you can increase your stats.
So all counted in, which other game gives me those listed here? Tell me...
----------------------------- Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. What is amazing to me is the atmosphere and the feeling of War that is created within the game. The RvR is great from Tier 1 and only gets better. I really love the way the different classes play differently as well.
people need to chill. With release so close either you're going to play or you're not. I'm sure the community will be that much better off anyway with one less person QQing during release about the cuts. This game isn't for everyone and even after NDA is lifted I'm sure alot more people will complain then even more will find something to whine about after preview weekend and OB. This crap never changes...every time a new game is released other people are always flaming it for one reason or another.
I'm either blind... or there's nothing there... I've played countless other MMOs... and I'm playing two of them now... I've also been playing WAR beta... playing and playing actually, trying to find out what's all the fuss about.... is it the RvR ?
I've also been reading these forums and I've noticed a few people who keep on posting comments like "it will rock your socks off" or "prepare to be engulfed in the most amazing game ever" or "this will blow you away" or "this will devour every other MMO out there"...... now either these people are old addicted DAOC players who live to play RVR (which is fine) or they've never played other MMOs..... I mean I've got feelings... I like playing games... but there's nothing about this game that would excite me... What are these elements that are supposed to rock my socks off?
This game isnt for everyone. Judging by the way you have talked this game down over and over again though there is a diffrence between not enjoying a game and trying to trash it every chance you get, which you seem to do.
If there's not one aspect of this game that you would enjoy I would say stick with your WoW or AoC. This game certainly does have at least something for everyone, Maybe not enough to keep thoes people playing but it has alittle bit of everything.
1. The open world RvR siege combat. I thought WoW would have this when I first started playing but it ended up being instanced pvp with no siege battles/weapons. I thought AoC would do it for me but the siege gameplay ened up being broken and terrible.
2. PQ quests, I always liked PuGs in WOW. I know thats weird but it always brought excitement into the gameplay and you never knew what was goin to heppen. Well now with WAR I can just join groups and have some fun and talk to people.
3. Tome of Knowledge, I like exploring and collecting things and ahievements(like on my xbox 360). With the ToK alone it will keep me busy for a while.
4. I like the tactics and mastery trees, With tactics and mastry you can spec your class to play completely different.. in alot of different ways. You can spec to solo, group, pvp, pve.etc etc etc . The devs said there are so many different tactics that you will not be able to buy them all.
5. i like that there are 6 different lvling experiences all the way from lvl1 to lvl40. Meaning I can explore 6 different PVE areas while lvling all the way to 40. Empire quests/areas are different than Chaos quests/areas, Dwarf quests/areas are different than greenskin quests/areas..etc etc etc
6. I like the fact that you will be able to burn loot and pillage the enemy city to the ground and the city will not be static like WoWs cities, I hated goin to pvp in cities in wow because nothing changed, everything was static. I also like the fact you will be able to take over keeps.
7. I like the fact that you can lvl your character(from 1 to 40) from only pvp if you choice to. I like the fact you can get loot from killing other players and looting them.
I could go on and on about what I like and thats what makes WAR amazing for me. And in the end thats what I care about, I care if I find the game fun and amazing. So I want others to like the game as well but at the end of the day it comes down to if I enjoy the game or not, or if I find it amazing or not...
I'm either blind... or there's nothing there... I've played countless other MMOs... and I'm playing two of them now... I've also been playing WAR beta... playing and playing actually, trying to find out what's all the fuss about.... is it the RvR ?
I've also been reading these forums and I've noticed a few people who keep on posting comments like "it will rock your socks off" or "prepare to be engulfed in the most amazing game ever" or "this will blow you away" or "this will devour every other MMO out there"...... now either these people are old addicted DAOC players who live to play RVR (which is fine) or they've never played other MMOs..... I mean I've got feelings... I like playing games... but there's nothing about this game that would excite me... What are these elements that are supposed to rock my socks off?
Ive been in CB for awhile and i have been saying this for awhile as well, there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR. Its simply a clone of WoW in an attempt to lure blizzards player base in order to make some cash since DaoC isnt the cash cow it used to be.
At the end of the day its really the 'fanbui's' that over hype the game and without realizing it they actually ruin it as well. Not to mention wait till you see how the general chat will fill up with silly 'chuck norris' jokes, just wait and see and mark my words WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!
First off, RvR is always about zerg fest. It's nearly impossible to level off a playing field in open world PvP. One side will always have more. try playing Hibernia in DAOc and you willl realize that some of the fin in RvR is overcoming the enemey zerg or vice versa. In the last year WAR has been heavily advertised as a 2 faction RvR with 6 different perspectives to the war through races. I never once heard anything about 6 way RvR war. Just looking at the current set of classes, a 6 way war would have been completely unblanced since some races don't have healers while other do. The game will have quite a bit of instancing for dungeons and battlegrounds style PvP. But it is clearly stated as a feature that players will be able to enter enemy territory to perform PvE quest under the danger of PvP. This means you travel into an open world where enemies from your server lurk about performing task. If it is instanced it would have somewhere near a 100 man cap which is more than enough for an epic battle anyways.
For someone reason, no one seems to mention anything about the living guilds or no-recipe crafting system.
RvR in WAR for 3(!) years was ALL about 3vs3 basic fighting (with each Army helping each other out in the RvR concept). It was the good vs the evil guys but STILL it had Army identities.
Mark Davis explains the War Atlas and you clearly can see the different fronts !!!!
it clearly shows: Dwarfs vs Greenskins front and... Empire vs Chaos front. (each with their own capitols)
So please I am following this game for 3 years and it LOOKED amazing.
Now everyone is crawling back. i don't get it.
It still is that way.
There are three pairings that fight each other.
The only difference now is that there is only one city to capture. But in order to capture that city you have to capture the tier 4 fortress in 2 of your enemies tier 4 zone. And you can't do that unless you captured the zones leading up to it in the pairings.
All those fronts are still in the game. Those aspects of the game have remained. The problem here is that most people are not understanding the information given out.
2 citiies were cut and 4 classes were cut. Instead of working your way up in each pairing to capture one of 3 cities, you work your way up in each to ultimately capture one city. Each war front is still essential to capturing the enemy city.
If you don't like that they cut the other two cities it's certainly understandable. Hopefully they will add them in at a later date. I'm more disappointed by the class cuts, but I rather them not be in the game then be half-assed. And yes...I think they needed to get the game out the door for the fall. The cities and 4 classes were the sacrafice. If you think that makes the game unplayable to you, without trying it out, then that's your call and no one should knock someone for it. Where you spend your money for your entertainment is your business. But once it's been decided that you don't want it, quit the bitching and moaning. And trying to play the gotcha game without understanding what you are whining about makes you look like a fool.
Originally posted by sgel I did return yesterday to AOC to show a friend some of the PvP.... and it's so damn great... had amazing fun.
I don't care how much people complaign about AoC... it is fun....
Originally posted by sgel The AOC forum must have plenty of grass growing all over... because the amount of hate-sheep that come here for the sole reason of slagging this game off... is appauling...
Haven't you got something better to do than to just point the finger and cry?
Sure the game has bugs and things aren't working as they should... they're working on it.. not as fast as other companies becuase they aren't other companies.
Maybe money/time/skill limit the patching needed... so what?... not all people are equal...
They expected they would be able to deliver more than they could... ok, accept it. Please shut up and realize that not everything in reality is peachy or fair... Go out and get some air in that starved brain of yours
Originally posted by sgel My sheep dictionary is fine... have some grass please. So many people payed and played it... a lot of people still play it... why aren't they here whining their sorry face off?
Stop jumping on the damn bandwagon and learn to judge the damn game with an educated mind.
sheep.
Good stuff. LOL. Sheep.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
I'm either blind... or there's nothing there... I've played countless other MMOs... and I'm playing two of them now... I've also been playing WAR beta... playing and playing actually, trying to find out what's all the fuss about.... is it the RvR ?
I've also been reading these forums and I've noticed a few people who keep on posting comments like "it will rock your socks off" or "prepare to be engulfed in the most amazing game ever" or "this will blow you away" or "this will devour every other MMO out there"...... now either these people are old addicted DAOC players who live to play RVR (which is fine) or they've never played other MMOs..... I mean I've got feelings... I like playing games... but there's nothing about this game that would excite me... What are these elements that are supposed to rock my socks off?
Ive been in CB for awhile and i have been saying this for awhile as well, there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR. Its simply a clone of WoW in an attempt to lure blizzards player base in order to make some cash since DaoC isnt the cash cow it used to be.
At the end of the day its really the 'fanbui's' that over hype the game and without realizing it they actually ruin it as well. Not to mention wait till you see how the general chat will fill up with silly 'chuck norris' jokes, just wait and see and mark my words WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!
if there is "there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR." then why you think "WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!" if WOW have such great success with such great lack of innovation?
I'm in beta for months and see many unique features for MMO world in contrast to WoW where there is no one for so many years.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Ive been in CB for awhile and i have been saying this for awhile as well, there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR. Its simply a clone of WoW in an attempt to lure blizzards player base in order to make some cash since DaoC isnt the cash cow it used to be. At the end of the day its really the 'fanbui's' that over hype the game and without realizing it they actually ruin it as well. Not to mention wait till you see how the general chat will fill up with silly 'chuck norris' jokes, just wait and see and mark my words WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!
I don't want to write 3 pages explaining why it is not a clone of WoW. Lets just say, I never liked WoW, I'm not the only one, I like WAR. And I am not the only one who is going to like WAR. Just try not to get too upset about it.
Let's faces it, WoW's early game is horribly boring, WARs is not.
Comments
In fact i was asking myself the same thing.
And sadely nobody yet gave a response... apart from the "go away carebear" useless comments.
We all know pvp in mmo is in conflict with the huge impact of character development, in opposit fps have great pvp but short life span; as short as their character devellopment .
And RvR can't be a very good response to it, it only reduce that problem a bit.
"Our pvp is bad but play in group it will be ok" is, and never were a good responce whatever fans say... Like it used to be, and still is every where in mmo wolrd, you can see the kind of comment "our game experience is boring as hell but play in group, it will be ok (damn its a mmo afterall)"... We all know the boring factor come as fast in a mmo as in a solo rpg game for a veteran of the mmo genre. It might be even shorter now (for me at least, and i pretty much played nothing else but mmo for more than 10years), and the quantity of veteran is not something to put aside for a developer.
So what really War offer about this? insight from a tester is welcome.
Also final RvR is instanced in War...
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people. It's an RVR game, and if you're not sold on the concept of RVR then WAR is not a game for you. As much as you may hate to hear it, you need to stop complaining that a spoon is not a fork, and go find something you can enjoy.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
First off, RvR is always about zerg fest. It's nearly impossible to level off a playing field in open world PvP. One side will always have more. try playing Hibernia in DAOc and you willl realize that some of the fin in RvR is overcoming the enemey zerg or vice versa.
In the last year WAR has been heavily advertised as a 2 faction RvR with 6 different perspectives to the war through races. I never once heard anything about 6 way RvR war. Just looking at the current set of classes, a 6 way war would have been completely unblanced since some races don't have healers while other do.
The game will have quite a bit of instancing for dungeons and battlegrounds style PvP. But it is clearly stated as a feature that players will be able to enter enemy territory to perform PvE quest under the danger of PvP. This means you travel into an open world where enemies from your server lurk about performing task. If it is instanced it would have somewhere near a 100 man cap which is more than enough for an epic battle anyways.
For someone reason, no one seems to mention anything about the living guilds or no-recipe crafting system.
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
Indeed RPG and PvP are not necessarily at odds, but the discussion was: if the RvR found in WAR is as original as it once sounded a few years ago.
WAR is indeed a cross between Wow/DAoC, and I quite don't understand these guys who keep yelling "I hate BG's" now come up with the fact that scenarios and other instanced capitol comabt are the next invention of human science.
The same with the term RvR itself: gone are the Army identities: it's pure one on one with class difference (for God's sake you have ONE orc and not even knights in Empire).
The only aspect of the game that stays up (till now at least) is that all you do is related to the war effort. If you would call this RvR ok, np. But don't try to sell something that isn't there.
You say [gameplay mechanic] is boring, and ask what is being done about it? Nothing, because what you think is boring other players find enjoyable. World PVP, large battles, PVP/PVE combat having an influence on the game world is what people find appealing about RVR and about WAR. Sure, I suppose you can say it's boring or sounds boring. I can say it's fun and sounds great, and now the argument has reached a stalemate. Understand this: WAR is not trying to be all things to all people.
Also, I disagree that RPG character development and PVP are necessarily at odds.
Indeed RPG and PvP are not necessarily at odds, but the discussion was: if the RvR found in WAR is as original as it once sounded a few years ago.
WAR is indeed a cross between Wow/DAoC, and I quite don't understand these guys who keep yelling "I hate BG's" now come up with the fact that scenarios and other instanced capitol comabt are the next invention of human science.
The same with the term RvR itself: gone are the Army identities: it's pure one on one with class difference (for God's sake you have ONE orc and not even knights in Empire).
The only aspect of the game that stays up (till now at least) is that all you do is related to the war effort. If you would call this RvR ok, np. But don't try to sell something that isn't there.
The point is this: either you accept the game as it is designed, or you don't. I will never understand what has happened to the MMO community; in no other genre of video game do you see people complaining about games not being something they never set out to be. I wouldn't go to Soul Calibur forums and complain about the game not having the diplomacy and warfare options found in the Civilization series, and if I did I would be rightly told to GTFO and go to Civilization forums.
OP is clearly not sold on WAR's concept. There is nothing wrong with that; it's just a game that's not up his alley. It doesn't mean the game is going to fail, it doesn't mean I am a better person than he is because I like what Mythic is doing. Instead of trying to delude himself into believing hype about the game, he needs to go with his own gut instinct and opinion that it's not the game for him. That's what this is about.
RvR in WAR for 3(!) years was ALL about 3vs3 basic fighting (with each Army helping each other out in the RvR concept). It was the good vs the evil guys but STILL it had Army identities.
Proof ????
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/player.php?mode=article&id=582
Mark Davis explains the War Atlas and you clearly can see the different fronts !!!!
it clearly shows: Dwarfs vs Greenskins front and... Empire vs Chaos front. (each with their own capitols)
So please I am following this game for 3 years and it LOOKED amazing.
Now everyone is crawling back. i don't get it.
Haha you are obviously not in the beta , everything you say is 100% wrong go troll somewhere else.
BTW they NEVER promoted 3 vs 3 , i follow this game since a year and a half and it was always ORDER VS DESTRUCTION .
Tha about sums it up for me aswell
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/player.php?mode=article&id=582
......Listen how the designer shows and explains the 3 vs 3 in a show case of the WAR atlas.
It is NOT ME who shows the Greenskins against Dwarfs fronts and respective capitols
It is NOT ME who shows the Empire against Chaos fronts and respective capitols.
THEY scrapped the capitols and Army identities.
Apparently you don't know anything about the game's history.
RvR???
Haha you are obviously not in the beta , everything you say is 100% wrong go troll somewhere else.
BTW they NEVER promoted 3 vs 3 , i follow this game since a year and a half and it was always ORDER VS DESTRUCTION .
This is where WowHammer looses me.
WARHAMMER WAS NEVER ABOUT A SIMPLE GOOD VS EVIL. It was each side being it's own. Undead many times was against goblins, high elves vs dwarves. This Good vs Evil garbage is bleh.
I truely wanted to like this game as I was a big fan of the old tabletop Warhammer.
Cartoony overhyped WoWhammer. I make it a lifes goal to stay far away from the WoW kiddies.
You all have fun with the G3ZKZRS PZWNSING people with the UBERL33T PAHWRZ
SHOHADAKU
Ideally according to Warhammer lore, there is no order or destruction. However, in order to create a game it is imperitive that the game have two sides, and to do so without including both Chaos and Greenskin would be very problematic. Humans vs. Chaos is a sub setting, just like all the rvr subsets it is molded according to Warhammer lore. Now, the major problem here is that involving all the armies in the game without grouping them would create major balance issues. One or two races will be on top, with another close to them, but what about lowly numbers 4, 5, and 6? Those armies would obviously be unequipped to sustain themselves in a realistic gaming setting because honestly, we may want to be underdogs, but we definitely don't want being in insurmountable situations such as the lower half of the races would be in terms of strength.
I probably didn't convey much of that properly, its 6:30 AM, give me a break. :P
I'd like to point out to the people crying foul about cartoonish graphics and canon inconsistency...it was all approved by Games Workshop. Fact of the matter is, they think it properly represents their IP. Fans and authors will be at odds until the end of the universe about creative direction. A shining example is George Lucas and his desire for the movie canon to be the only true canon, with the expanded universe being a splinter. Star Wars lived long enough to make the prequel trilogy because of the fans devotion to the expanded universe. When pig face went and made the prequels, most of the die hard fans that loved the expanded universe turned the movies into total lynchings so to speak. As fans we want to believe we are entitled to what we want out of canon, or an IP, but the truth is we can only get what the author wants to give. Everyone can't be pleased, its a way of life.
As for the city cuts being a big deal. Yes, some what. However, if the cities were complete and in at launch, 2 of the 3 pairings would be imbalanced due to the cut classes. The classes are the biggest issue to begin with, as it is silly to ask Witch Hunters to play the role of tank/front line combatant. They aren't designed to be. Once/if these imbalances are sealed with the release of the 4 classes then I fully expect the cities won't be far behind. Co-ordinating the defense of 3 cities during launch would be extremely bumpy as well, its going to be difficult enough protecting one as the beta players are going to have a heads up but still can't teach someone how to fully play their class in a manner of minutes before the flood gates open and the enemy is standing in our door steps. Let the cities come as updates, it will revigorate any staleness that may be around each time a pair are released.
Another thing, the appeal of RvR is basically the fact that all of us who have lived and died with the currently horribly imbalanced PvP features in modern mmo's are going to finally have a chance to experience a true fantasy war and virtual chessmatch. It's a challenge that only one or two other games have ever presented(DAoC for one). It's something new in comparison to the regurgitated vomit of meaningless time sink grinding that MMO's churn out like clock work and call it content. You can dress a doll in several outfits, but at the end of the day its still the same damn doll you've been playing with all these years.
For someone who loves WoW, they may not get what the big deal is. Many of us don't like WoW.
And it's not just the RvR. It's the pacing and the gameplay choices.
In one hour I can do some solo pve, do a public quest, do a scenario and do some rvr.
One hour in WoW, I can return one quest far away, and find a group.
Then Witch Hunter is not your class.
Is called chainsaw surgery
You remove two legs, a arm, and half the orgams in 10 minutes, with the client alive before the operation.
NO REMORSE!.. what is removed is removed. A man can live with the other 45 %!
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NERF CHICKENS!
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http://www.computerandvideogames.com/player.php?mode=article&id=582
......Listen how the designer shows and explains the 3 vs 3 in a show case of the WAR atlas.
It is NOT ME who shows the Greenskins against Dwarfs fronts and respective capitols
It is NOT ME who shows the Empire against Chaos fronts and respective capitols.
THEY scrapped the capitols and Army identities.
Apparently you don't know anything about the game's history.
RvR???
You are just talking semantics. Yes they took out the capitol cities for the dwarf/orc and Highelf/Darkelf pairings, but at no point where the pairings seperate and inclusive initially. The 'battlefronts' you mention are still there, and the victory points still filter up to the T4 zones for each pairing, the only thing that has changed is that the point that control of the t4 zones now effects the empire/chaos cities instead of the original cities. Each race area is still functional and complete, as complete as the empire and chaos area (minus the capitol cities), they only changed it so the world victory points effect empire/chaos capitols, instead of effecting the capitols that they 'pushed back'.
Am I disappointed that the other capitols are missing? Hell yes, as a dwarf 'buff', I was crushed, but i'd rather they release 2 massive cities, find the bugs and the area's that are montonous and take what they learn and apply it in finishing up the other cities.
Currently the world RVR will focus around empire and chaos, but eventually they intend to put in the other cities. It's not like they where never created, they were in development, but where cut back to allow for Mythic to release in a timely manner.
And to answer the original poster: The thing that people are excited over are a mix of several things.
1) Realm pride: I can honestly say i have played with some tools but when it came to beat down to the other side, its all dropped because we are on the same team. Its hard to 'code' such a dynamic into a game, its either there or not, and for me, its definately there. Basically the game grabs you and draws you into empathizing with your realm
2) RVR done right. Not much to explain this, DAoC was a great game in its own right, which means that mythic has the experience with RVR to make it better.
3) The IP: I didn't play DAoC, but i dam well played warhammer, and the option of taking that game, that so many people loved, and take it into the MMO realm just excites many players.
There is other reasons, but as it is I think i'm skirting the NDA agreement, but since you are playing war still, i imagine you can think of the other 'neat' aspects of the game that while it doesn't have you as excited as some players, it still has you still playing
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/player.php?mode=article&id=582
......Listen how the designer shows and explains the 3 vs 3 in a show case of the WAR atlas.
It is NOT ME who shows the Greenskins against Dwarfs fronts and respective capitols
It is NOT ME who shows the Empire against Chaos fronts and respective capitols.
THEY scrapped the capitols and Army identities.
Apparently you don't know anything about the game's history.
RvR???
It has always been Order Versus Destruction where each realm consisted of 3 races and there is a total of 3 racial pairings. This has never changed from the start and still hasn't changed now. The only difference is the lack of capitols for Dwarf V Greenskin and High Elf V Dark Elf. They are still Three warfronts for those races, but they are just funneled towards one common goal now instead of 3 different goals.
You make it sound like they meshed the Three warfronts into one big giant one, but that is completely untrue.
What the HELL is so amazing? I will try to explain:
1. Action starts at lvl 1. There are a total of 40 levels and there is NO grind whatsoever.
2. You can earn XP from public quests, regular quests, killing mobs, killing OTHER players, or through exploration.
3. There are 80 PvP levels. It takes much slower to level in these. With those levels you get new abilities, stats and gear.
4. There is action everywhere, anytime. There are 3 battlefronts, 4 tiers in each. Each tier has 2 zones. Therefore a total of 24 battlefields in the OPEN WORLD concurrently. Plus there are a total of ~24 different (not the same) scenarios (instanced) like WoW battlegrounds. Not finished. There are keep battles, city battles which are different from these.
5. You can actually use siege weapons yourself to kill other players.
6. All classes are unique. You wont see stupid things like an Orc becoming a Warlock or rogue or a stupid 2 foot gnome wielding a 10 foot sword.
7. You can find groups anytime, anywhere. You see open groups when you enter a zone.
8. There is no lag. 100-200 people at the same battlefield will not cause any trouble. The game is almost complete and polished as it is.
9. The gear does not look crap. Skill > gear but your stats are actually working and through renown points (PvP levels) or gear you can increase your stats.
So all counted in, which other game gives me those listed here? Tell me...
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
Different strokes for different folks I guess. What is amazing to me is the atmosphere and the feeling of War that is created within the game. The RvR is great from Tier 1 and only gets better. I really love the way the different classes play differently as well.
people need to chill. With release so close either you're going to play or you're not. I'm sure the community will be that much better off anyway with one less person QQing during release about the cuts. This game isn't for everyone and even after NDA is lifted I'm sure alot more people will complain then even more will find something to whine about after preview weekend and OB. This crap never changes...every time a new game is released other people are always flaming it for one reason or another.
This game isnt for everyone. Judging by the way you have talked this game down over and over again though there is a diffrence between not enjoying a game and trying to trash it every chance you get, which you seem to do.
If there's not one aspect of this game that you would enjoy I would say stick with your WoW or AoC. This game certainly does have at least something for everyone, Maybe not enough to keep thoes people playing but it has alittle bit of everything.
Some of the things I like about WAR..
1. The open world RvR siege combat. I thought WoW would have this when I first started playing but it ended up being instanced pvp with no siege battles/weapons. I thought AoC would do it for me but the siege gameplay ened up being broken and terrible.
2. PQ quests, I always liked PuGs in WOW. I know thats weird but it always brought excitement into the gameplay and you never knew what was goin to heppen. Well now with WAR I can just join groups and have some fun and talk to people.
3. Tome of Knowledge, I like exploring and collecting things and ahievements(like on my xbox 360). With the ToK alone it will keep me busy for a while.
4. I like the tactics and mastery trees, With tactics and mastry you can spec your class to play completely different.. in alot of different ways. You can spec to solo, group, pvp, pve.etc etc etc . The devs said there are so many different tactics that you will not be able to buy them all.
5. i like that there are 6 different lvling experiences all the way from lvl1 to lvl40. Meaning I can explore 6 different PVE areas while lvling all the way to 40. Empire quests/areas are different than Chaos quests/areas, Dwarf quests/areas are different than greenskin quests/areas..etc etc etc
6. I like the fact that you will be able to burn loot and pillage the enemy city to the ground and the city will not be static like WoWs cities, I hated goin to pvp in cities in wow because nothing changed, everything was static. I also like the fact you will be able to take over keeps.
7. I like the fact that you can lvl your character(from 1 to 40) from only pvp if you choice to. I like the fact you can get loot from killing other players and looting them.
I could go on and on about what I like and thats what makes WAR amazing for me. And in the end thats what I care about, I care if I find the game fun and amazing. So I want others to like the game as well but at the end of the day it comes down to if I enjoy the game or not, or if I find it amazing or not...
Ive been in CB for awhile and i have been saying this for awhile as well, there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR. Its simply a clone of WoW in an attempt to lure blizzards player base in order to make some cash since DaoC isnt the cash cow it used to be.
At the end of the day its really the 'fanbui's' that over hype the game and without realizing it they actually ruin it as well. Not to mention wait till you see how the general chat will fill up with silly 'chuck norris' jokes, just wait and see and mark my words WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!
RvR in WAR for 3(!) years was ALL about 3vs3 basic fighting (with each Army helping each other out in the RvR concept). It was the good vs the evil guys but STILL it had Army identities.
Proof ????
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/player.php?mode=article&id=582
Mark Davis explains the War Atlas and you clearly can see the different fronts !!!!
it clearly shows: Dwarfs vs Greenskins front and... Empire vs Chaos front. (each with their own capitols)
So please I am following this game for 3 years and it LOOKED amazing.
Now everyone is crawling back. i don't get it.
It still is that way.
There are three pairings that fight each other.
The only difference now is that there is only one city to capture. But in order to capture that city you have to capture the tier 4 fortress in 2 of your enemies tier 4 zone. And you can't do that unless you captured the zones leading up to it in the pairings.
All those fronts are still in the game. Those aspects of the game have remained. The problem here is that most people are not understanding the information given out.
2 citiies were cut and 4 classes were cut. Instead of working your way up in each pairing to capture one of 3 cities, you work your way up in each to ultimately capture one city. Each war front is still essential to capturing the enemy city.
If you don't like that they cut the other two cities it's certainly understandable. Hopefully they will add them in at a later date. I'm more disappointed by the class cuts, but I rather them not be in the game then be half-assed. And yes...I think they needed to get the game out the door for the fall. The cities and 4 classes were the sacrafice. If you think that makes the game unplayable to you, without trying it out, then that's your call and no one should knock someone for it. Where you spend your money for your entertainment is your business. But once it's been decided that you don't want it, quit the bitching and moaning. And trying to play the gotcha game without understanding what you are whining about makes you look like a fool.
Let's put the OP's posts into context, shall we?
Good stuff. LOL. Sheep.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Ive been in CB for awhile and i have been saying this for awhile as well, there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR. Its simply a clone of WoW in an attempt to lure blizzards player base in order to make some cash since DaoC isnt the cash cow it used to be.
At the end of the day its really the 'fanbui's' that over hype the game and without realizing it they actually ruin it as well. Not to mention wait till you see how the general chat will fill up with silly 'chuck norris' jokes, just wait and see and mark my words WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!
if there is "there is "NOTHING" innovative about WAR." then why you think "WAR will not make it past 12 months before they start to merge servers!" if WOW have such great success with such great lack of innovation?
I'm in beta for months and see many unique features for MMO world in contrast to WoW where there is no one for so many years.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
I don't want to write 3 pages explaining why it is not a clone of WoW. Lets just say, I never liked WoW, I'm not the only one, I like WAR. And I am not the only one who is going to like WAR. Just try not to get too upset about it.
Let's faces it, WoW's early game is horribly boring, WARs is not.