You are still missing my point. The trial accounts are used to advertise in safety of getting their main accounts banned. the Inflated trial accounts that all the sweatshops and more than half of asia use are counted as subscribers by Blizzard. Majority are gold sellers and second and third accounts for when players fought their own teams in arenas to get S3.
I'm sorry, I thought we were dealing with real numbers here. I see we are dealing with whatever you think they are. Blizzard has already stated that their numbers don't include trial or inactive accounts. Only accounts that are active and paid. They have reported this not just to the fans, but to their investors. What that means is if they are lying about trial accounts it violates any number of SEC reporting laws. In the real world that's a very serious violation and they aren't going to risk that just to make their numbers sound a little better.
You are still missing my point. The trial accounts are used to advertise in safety of getting their main accounts banned. the Inflated trial accounts that all the sweatshops and more than half of asia use are counted as subscribers by Blizzard. Majority are gold sellers and second and third accounts for when players fought their own teams in arenas to get S3.
I'm sorry, I thought we were dealing with real numbers here. I see we are dealing with whatever you think they are. Blizzard has already stated that their numbers don't include trial or inactive accounts. Only accounts that are active and paid. They have reported this not just to the fans, but to their investors. What that means is if they are lying about trial accounts it violates any number of SEC reporting laws. In the real world that's a very serious violation and they aren't going to risk that just to make their numbers sound a little better.
Blizzard is not an independant source. Why believe Blizzard?
WoW is a sweatshops heaven..... Why you think they leave free trial accounts up? Thats an advertisement outlet for their biggest customer base.
If they had 11mil paying customers monthly ,why have free trials period?
Originally posted by Shard101 Blizzard is not an independant source. Why believe Blizzard?
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY source with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Blizzard is not an independant source. Why believe Blizzard?
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY people with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Those numbers are not public... It's just what Blizzard has said they are and nothing more.
Did blizzard rip off warhammer table top concepts/art/lore back in the day, yes. Is warhammer ripping off many of the MMO concepts of WoW, yes. It isn't to hard to be honest about that. There is plenty of concept stealing that goes on in the MMO world, but never have two MMO felt so identical in presentation.
Shard, what on earth can you possibly mean that their numbers are not public? Publically traded companies cannot just make up any financial information they want to and release that to the public. Anything a company "just says" they can be held legally responsible for.
Did blizzard rip off warhammer table top concepts/art/lore back in the day, yes. Is warhammer ripping off many of the MMO concepts of WoW, yes. It isn't to hard to be honest about that. WoW also cloned much about EQ, but they don't look identical. There are plenty of other games that are cloning WoW that don't look identical.
Shard, what on earth can you possibly mean that their numbers are not public? Publically traded companies cannot just make up any financial information they want to and release that to the public. Anything a company "just says" they can be held legally responsible for.
Show me proof... WoW doesn't have to report actual subscriptions of their product. They only have to legally report the box sales of that product.
Yeah and EA would be really put out if they thought Bliz had lied to them as one of their big % investors in Asia. Yep that's right folks. EA bought into The9 in a big way. They are now in a win win situation. WoW sells well they get paid. WAR sells well they still get paid
Just to add troll I believe the term is pwnt Bliz...
Show me proof... WoW doesn't have to report actual subscriptions of their product. They only have to legally report the box sales of that product.
He already did show you the proof, you just seem to be unable to deduce it.
If Blizzard were lying to their investors about active account numbers then a million lawyers would be jumping to sue Blizzard. The bigger success a company has, the faster people will try to sue, simply because there is something to gain.
And even if they were lying by 50%, then they would still have 1 million users in europe, still around 2 million users in the US, and still around 3 million users in Asia. Even if they make up half of their numbers, it's still very impressive.
Show me proof... WoW doesn't have to report actual subscriptions of their product. They only have to legally report the box sales of that product.
Blizzard can no more make up fictious numbers than you can scream FIRE in a crowded theater. Why you seem to think company can willfully lie to the public and investors about their performance is beyond me. Why don't you prove that they don't have that many subscribers or that they can say whatever they want since you are speaking so authoritatively?
How do you explain the game staying in the top ten selling software spots since launch and several of those spots since the expanion? How many subscribers do you think can play on any of the almost 500 game servers for the US/European community? The math adds up despite your claims.
It isn't that hard to believe the figures that blizzard is claiming. It is very difficult to believe anything you are saying since you have no real evidence to back up your theories.
In fact I bet you when Warhammer reaches its first million subscribers they have a proportionally close number of servers as WoW does.
Originally posted by Shard101 Blizzard is not an independant source. Why believe Blizzard?
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY people with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Those numbers are not public... It's just what Blizzard has said they are and nothing more.
Who cares, theres 5.5m asian players. From the left 4.5m, 3m are kids. From the left 1.5m, 1m even do not like to play MMO, and the left 500k valuable MMO players play WoW just because they are Warcraft fans.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
Who cares, theres 5.5m asian players. From the left 4.5m, 3m are kids. From the left 1.5m, 1m even do not like to play MMO, and the left 500k valuable MMO players play WoW just because they are Warcraft fans.
From your sig I can see that you played WoW. So, which group do you fall into?
Both games copied from Tolkien. He had orcs before anyone else.
As far as the art goes, now that I've played the game I didn't feel that WAR looked that much like WoW. It looks a lot more like LotRO.
The character and environmental models have more polygons, which makes them smoother. Most of the textures are also higher resolution and more realistic. Yes, there's stylization. But it's not in a cartoon-like way as with WoW.
Of course everyone has different tastes, but my personal take is that WAR looks better than WoW.
Did blizzard rip off warhammer table top concepts/art/lore back in the day, yes. Is warhammer ripping off many of the MMO concepts of WoW, yes. It isn't to hard to be honest about that. There is plenty of concept stealing that goes on in the MMO world, but never have two MMO felt so identical in presentation.
Except that Blizzard themselves - by their own say so - have not introduced anything new to the genre, but have gotten their ideas from other MMOs that came before. They simply streamlined them and put them into a more accessible package; which is Blizzard's specialty.
So if one wants to say "WAR has implemented concepts common to many MMOs, including those that pre-date WoW - such as Mythic's own DAoC", then that's accurate.
Which raises another point.. It's not like Mythic are complete newbs on the MMO front... They *have* a history with developing and running an MMO. Heck, if memory serves, before DAoC, they created MUDs.... though don't quote me on that, I might be confusing them with another company.
Point is, they certainly have enough of their own experience, ideas and resources to pull from.
For example, RvR is totally one of their own "signature" concepts and that's what a big part of WAR is based around.
But anyway, for one say, "It's copying from WoW" and leave it at that is disingenuous at best.. Ignorant at worst.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mike, I agree with most of what you are saying word for word.
However there are many games that have been pillaging each other for years as far as concepts go. I am also certain Warhammer has plenty of its own twists and turns on common MMO themes and plenty of new innovations. I can't for the life of me think of two more similar games in appearance, UI, style, presentation, etc.
Please consider that I am not saying this is a bad thing at all. Mythic is smart to present their game in a fashion that will be familiar and comfortable to the largest population of MMO players on the market. I am 100% in favor of games taking what works and making it better, but I am not going to pretend it isn't happening. This didn't happen by accident.
It isn't some coincidence that almost every MMO reviewers first comments are how the game looks, feels and plays just like WoW. Then after getting into the game for a while they start to see the little differences and new game play mechanics that give the game its own feel.
I wrealy hope that WAR will be a nice game cause Blizz sux evrything that they took from Warhammer lore epic and 40k doesent changes one thing they STOLE that and modified it a bit ffs I should make a list of that which I hawe seen in all Blizz products that got Warhammer signature all over it it`s jsut that I hope that game will be a huge succes so that people will get a bit into Warhammer lore and c years of hard work GWorkshop spend to create lore and characters .Most disturbing thing imho is that such great lore must to fight it`s own shadow now to be presented to audience.
ok.....i swear...reading comprehension isnt the forte of many people hear as I have seen people misunderstand sarcasm and, now, the OP.
Now, Ive read 3 straight pages of this thread and I swear I think only 4 of you actually understood what the original poster was talking about.
He's saying, in a nutshell, that Warcraft got their artistic designs and "environment" from Warhammer....not the other way around. Many of you guys are talking as if he saying Warhammer copied from Warcraft; in which he isn't saying that at all.
Before some (not all of you) begin to bash the OP as a WoW fanboi (and even if he was a fan of WoW...so what?) you seriously need to take the time to fully read his post.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Many of you guys are talking as if he saying Warhammer copied from Warcraft; in which he isn't saying that at all.
Read the title of the thread.
Therein lay the confusion.
There is also a question mark at the end of the title of the thread; hence a decision to think about or a question to be raised.
Read the post guys. Just not the title of the thread. This is exactly what I am talking about; people read the topic, assumes what the OP is saying and then post something that makes no damn sense!
Take the time to read the post from the OP fellas. You may have a different opinion next time.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Comments
I'm sorry, I thought we were dealing with real numbers here. I see we are dealing with whatever you think they are. Blizzard has already stated that their numbers don't include trial or inactive accounts. Only accounts that are active and paid. They have reported this not just to the fans, but to their investors. What that means is if they are lying about trial accounts it violates any number of SEC reporting laws. In the real world that's a very serious violation and they aren't going to risk that just to make their numbers sound a little better.
I'm sorry, I thought we were dealing with real numbers here. I see we are dealing with whatever you think they are. Blizzard has already stated that their numbers don't include trial or inactive accounts. Only accounts that are active and paid. They have reported this not just to the fans, but to their investors. What that means is if they are lying about trial accounts it violates any number of SEC reporting laws. In the real world that's a very serious violation and they aren't going to risk that just to make their numbers sound a little better.
Blizzard is not an independant source. Why believe Blizzard?
WoW is a sweatshops heaven..... Why you think they leave free trial accounts up? Thats an advertisement outlet for their biggest customer base.
If they had 11mil paying customers monthly ,why have free trials period?
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY source with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY people with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Those numbers are not public... It's just what Blizzard has said they are and nothing more.
Did blizzard rip off warhammer table top concepts/art/lore back in the day, yes. Is warhammer ripping off many of the MMO concepts of WoW, yes. It isn't to hard to be honest about that. There is plenty of concept stealing that goes on in the MMO world, but never have two MMO felt so identical in presentation.
Shard, what on earth can you possibly mean that their numbers are not public? Publically traded companies cannot just make up any financial information they want to and release that to the public. Anything a company "just says" they can be held legally responsible for.
Show me proof... WoW doesn't have to report actual subscriptions of their product. They only have to legally report the box sales of that product.
Yeah and EA would be really put out if they thought Bliz had lied to them as one of their big % investors in Asia. Yep that's right folks. EA bought into The9 in a big way. They are now in a win win situation.
WoW sells well they get paid. WAR sells well they still get paid 
Just to add troll I believe the term is pwnt Bliz...
He already did show you the proof, you just seem to be unable to deduce it.
If Blizzard were lying to their investors about active account numbers then a million lawyers would be jumping to sue Blizzard. The bigger success a company has, the faster people will try to sue, simply because there is something to gain.
And even if they were lying by 50%, then they would still have 1 million users in europe, still around 2 million users in the US, and still around 3 million users in Asia. Even if they make up half of their numbers, it's still very impressive.
How could they not. Queen Morgana is THE only Dark Elf that should ever be used for reference.
Blizzard can no more make up fictious numbers than you can scream FIRE in a crowded theater. Why you seem to think company can willfully lie to the public and investors about their performance is beyond me. Why don't you prove that they don't have that many subscribers or that they can say whatever they want since you are speaking so authoritatively?
How do you explain the game staying in the top ten selling software spots since launch and several of those spots since the expanion? How many subscribers do you think can play on any of the almost 500 game servers for the US/European community? The math adds up despite your claims.
It isn't that hard to believe the figures that blizzard is claiming. It is very difficult to believe anything you are saying since you have no real evidence to back up your theories.
In fact I bet you when Warhammer reaches its first million subscribers they have a proportionally close number of servers as WoW does.
How could they not. Queen Morgana is THE only Dark Elf that should ever be used for reference.
WIN!
I seriously cannot believe this guy is trying to pull this kids cartoon thing over to every thread this is just freaking hilarious.
Alrighty, I'm done. You obviously don't even understand basic financial reporting procedures in business. These numbers weren't just press releases, they were numbers included in financial reports required, by law, to their investors (since they are public). Unless they want to spend some time in prison, they simply don't make those numbers up - it's that serious in the financial world on things like that. It's almost the same as filing false tax returns. Blizzard is the ONLY people with these real numbers - it's THIER business. I'll let you argue with others from here on out.
Those numbers are not public... It's just what Blizzard has said they are and nothing more.
Who cares, theres 5.5m asian players. From the left 4.5m, 3m are kids. From the left 1.5m, 1m even do not like to play MMO, and the left 500k valuable MMO players play WoW just because they are Warcraft fans.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
From your sig I can see that you played WoW. So, which group do you fall into?
Both games copied from Tolkien. He had orcs before anyone else.
As far as the art goes, now that I've played the game I didn't feel that WAR looked that much like WoW. It looks a lot more like LotRO.
The character and environmental models have more polygons, which makes them smoother. Most of the textures are also higher resolution and more realistic. Yes, there's stylization. But it's not in a cartoon-like way as with WoW.
Of course everyone has different tastes, but my personal take is that WAR looks better than WoW.
Except that Blizzard themselves - by their own say so - have not introduced anything new to the genre, but have gotten their ideas from other MMOs that came before. They simply streamlined them and put them into a more accessible package; which is Blizzard's specialty.
So if one wants to say "WAR has implemented concepts common to many MMOs, including those that pre-date WoW - such as Mythic's own DAoC", then that's accurate.
Which raises another point.. It's not like Mythic are complete newbs on the MMO front... They *have* a history with developing and running an MMO. Heck, if memory serves, before DAoC, they created MUDs.... though don't quote me on that, I might be confusing them with another company.
Point is, they certainly have enough of their own experience, ideas and resources to pull from.
For example, RvR is totally one of their own "signature" concepts and that's what a big part of WAR is based around.
But anyway, for one say, "It's copying from WoW" and leave it at that is disingenuous at best.. Ignorant at worst.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Mike, I agree with most of what you are saying word for word.
However there are many games that have been pillaging each other for years as far as concepts go. I am also certain Warhammer has plenty of its own twists and turns on common MMO themes and plenty of new innovations. I can't for the life of me think of two more similar games in appearance, UI, style, presentation, etc.
Please consider that I am not saying this is a bad thing at all. Mythic is smart to present their game in a fashion that will be familiar and comfortable to the largest population of MMO players on the market. I am 100% in favor of games taking what works and making it better, but I am not going to pretend it isn't happening. This didn't happen by accident.
It isn't some coincidence that almost every MMO reviewers first comments are how the game looks, feels and plays just like WoW. Then after getting into the game for a while they start to see the little differences and new game play mechanics that give the game its own feel.
I wrealy hope that WAR will be a nice game cause Blizz sux evrything that they took from Warhammer lore epic and 40k doesent changes one thing they STOLE that and modified it a bit ffs I should make a list of that which I hawe seen in all Blizz products that got Warhammer signature all over it it`s jsut that I hope that game will be a huge succes so that people will get a bit into Warhammer lore and c years of hard work GWorkshop spend to create lore and characters .Most disturbing thing imho is that such great lore must to fight it`s own shadow now to be presented to audience.
And Tolkien copied from vikings, who actually had dwarves and elves in their mythology.
I wonder from who the vikings copied from?
ok.....i swear...reading comprehension isnt the forte of many people hear as I have seen people misunderstand sarcasm and, now, the OP.
Now, Ive read 3 straight pages of this thread and I swear I think only 4 of you actually understood what the original poster was talking about.
He's saying, in a nutshell, that Warcraft got their artistic designs and "environment" from Warhammer....not the other way around. Many of you guys are talking as if he saying Warhammer copied from Warcraft; in which he isn't saying that at all.
Before some (not all of you) begin to bash the OP as a WoW fanboi (and even if he was a fan of WoW...so what?) you seriously need to take the time to fully read his post.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
WoW is a completely derivative work. I can't think of a single thing in it that is original.
McDonalds for the masses.
Read the title of the thread.
Therein lay the confusion.
Read the title of the thread.
Therein lay the confusion.
There is also a question mark at the end of the title of the thread; hence a decision to think about or a question to be raised.
Read the post guys. Just not the title of the thread. This is exactly what I am talking about; people read the topic, assumes what the OP is saying and then post something that makes no damn sense!
Take the time to read the post from the OP fellas. You may have a different opinion next time.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
WAR had a large tabletop community before the internet was even in full swing.
WoW created mmos the like Nabster put pirating on the internet. It was still going on, they just put it in the spot light.
Clever things.
War copied WOW.
WOW copied many other games, not a single original thing in it, and it is still doing well financially. Why can't WAR do the same?
No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.
Warcraft used ideas from Warhammer who used ideas from Lord of the Rings.
Warhammer Online used ideas from World of Warcraft.