As much as I hate to say it, we will never find PvP like we had in UO because that generation of gamers has passed. The new generation is all about smack talking and griefing. PvP is no longer about meaningful and honorable fights, but instead about who's got the bigger epeen, corpse camping, and zerging. This is why open PvP/looting games don't find much success. People just don't enjoy all the garbage that comes with it. I, too, was in love with UO in it's glory days. Sure I had my fair share of being killed, probably more than my fair share actually since I'm not an amazing PvPer. Still, it was fun and, once upon a time, you could usually count on the person who killed you also rezzing you and leaving something on your corpse. It just won't happen anymore. Today's gamers are generally too immature and too full of themselves to consider playing the way we did back then. There are, of course, still some like you and I who still have the honor and decency to not get a kick out of doing things just to ruin someone's day, but we really are the rare finds anymore.
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
The problem with this is simple.
There hasnt been a game AT ALL, that closely resembled the reward and consequence system in UO.
The market was flooded by games NOT EVEN REMOTELY on track with PvP and meaning.
The irony is that only a game like UO can create a community of players who have to think about what they do and say.
It was the game that created that 'great community' you guys are remembering.
Stop being silly, you already knew this because of common sense.
Viva La Darkfall!
It don't matter if they're laughing with you or at you, so long as they're laughing.
It seems to me that you all are remembering things the way you want to, not the way they actually happened.
First a little history:
I played UO for 7 years. In 2001 when I first heard about DF, after the cancellation of UO2, I couldn't be happier. I thought that in a couple of years I would be playing the next upgrade to the sandbox world that UO was.
Well, we all know that didn't happen.
UO was a fantastic sandbox game, the best MMO to ever come out in my opinion. The problem is, people here seem to be blocking out all of the bad things the game had as well.
There were TONS of gank squads who would kill you, loot you, cut up your body, and then take your body parts home as a trophy they kept in a chest in their house.
The entire housing area north of the Britannia Graveyard was full of PKers who loved to do nothing more than kill the noobs who just started a character and were trying to figure out how to play the game. People would stealth camp dungeons, wait for you to attack a mob, and then come kill and loot you. All of these things also came with insults, name calling, etc...
In today's games there are players that get no greater satisfaction then helping someone else, just like in UO.
I doubt DF will be any different then the way UO was... but if you think the community there was any different then it is in today's games, I would have to say you are completely wrong.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
It seems to me that you all are remembering things the way you want to, not the way they actually happened. First a little history: I played UO for 7 years. In 2001 when I first heard about DF, after the cancellation of UO2, I couldn't be happier. I thought that in a couple of years I would be playing the next upgrade to the sandbox world that UO was. Well, we all know that didn't happen. UO was a fantastic sandbox game, the best MMO to ever come out in my opinion. The problem is, people here seem to be blocking out all of the bad things the game had as well. There were TONS of gank squads who would kill you, loot you, cut up your body, and then take your body parts home as a trophy they kept in a chest in their house. The entire housing area north of the Britannia Graveyard was full of PKers who loved to do nothing more than kill the noobs who just started a character and were trying to figure out how to play the game. People would stealth camp dungeons, wait for you to attack a mob, and then come kill and loot you. All of these things also came with insults, name calling, etc... In today's games there are players that get no greater satisfaction then helping someone else, just like in UO. I doubt DF will be any different then the way UO was... but if you think the community there was any different then it is in today's games, I would have to say you are completely wrong.
I dont have the time to educate you on common sense, im sorry. So ill keep it short-
I will say this, its a game that enforces consequences for a player's actions.
Majority of the games since UO, have not done this so perfectly.
I dont ignore the bad parts of Ultima Online, I look at them as good things, cause honestly it was all about freedom.
If you dont realize why DF will have a better community then over current games, I pity you.
It don't matter if they're laughing with you or at you, so long as they're laughing.
This game will come im sure of it, i promote it for longtime now here on mmorpg.com for years. But its a fact majority nomatter how hard you try explain full open pvp and full loot is not for all and i respect that, you can,t say they miss something or misslead its just not for them. Some like apples others orange. Some like rap some like hardrock. Some like controlled save pvp in battlegrounds/arena's/pve. Some like free for all pvp with full loot. The latter one will always be for nich market, its for those who dont care to die in pvp and lose stuff who dont mind play a game without any guidance by game. Some like sandbox Majority like themepark this will always be case. I realy hope darkfall will get at least 200k players becouse it deserves it. Sandbox games like darkfall are new hope for mmo'market not to save it but for showing that a game like this can also be alot of fun and can have a life next to the big ones like wow.
Woot FFA PvP with full loot!
but yes darkfall looks really good. hopefully it will match UO i loved UO where i would kill someone and it mattered to the community rather than the npc. become a criminal and npcs wont trade with you. thats fine but now with newer mmorpg's players don't care and just assume you are a bot killer now. no i am a pk. i kill real players and take their real gear. and then from doing this players come after you rather than npc guards killing you in 1 hit.
It seems to me that you all are remembering things the way you want to, not the way they actually happened. First a little history: I played UO for 7 years. In 2001 when I first heard about DF, after the cancellation of UO2, I couldn't be happier. I thought that in a couple of years I would be playing the next upgrade to the sandbox world that UO was. Well, we all know that didn't happen. UO was a fantastic sandbox game, the best MMO to ever come out in my opinion. The problem is, people here seem to be blocking out all of the bad things the game had as well. There were TONS of gank squads who would kill you, loot you, cut up your body, and then take your body parts home as a trophy they kept in a chest in their house. The entire housing area north of the Britannia Graveyard was full of PKers who loved to do nothing more than kill the noobs who just started a character and were trying to figure out how to play the game. People would stealth camp dungeons, wait for you to attack a mob, and then come kill and loot you. All of these things also came with insults, name calling, etc... In today's games there are players that get no greater satisfaction then helping someone else, just like in UO. I doubt DF will be any different then the way UO was... but if you think the community there was any different then it is in today's games, I would have to say you are completely wrong.
I dont have the time to educate you on common sense, im sorry. So ill keep it short-
I will say this, its a game that enforces consequences for a player's actions.
Majority of the games since UO, have not done this so perfectly.
I dont ignore the bad parts of Ultima Online, I look at them as good things, cause honestly it was all about freedom.
If you dont realize why DF will have a better community then over current games, I pity you.
Uo was about freedom. you didn't have to follow the laws and a linear storyline. you could go criminal (pk aka me) and steal things from players, but then the anti-pk or pkk would come and kill you and give everything you own to your victims.
And also a full loot system game will attract some players like me, but thats a small price to pay to possibly rid the game of bots, and children who spam. bots would pronbably be gone because they would be killed and fully looted if they bot and cant fight back because they are not there. the children would be gone because they are to scared to loose their newest ebayed gear.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
The problem with this is simple.
There hasnt been a game AT ALL, that closely resembled the reward and consequence system in UO.
The market was flooded by games NOT EVEN REMOTELY on track with PvP and meaning.
The irony is that only a game like UO can create a community of players who have to think about what they do and say.
It was the game that created that 'great community' you guys are remembering.
Stop being silly, you already knew this because of common sense.
As much as I hate to say it, we will never find PvP like we had in UO because that generation of gamers has passed. The new generation is all about smack talking and griefing. PvP is no longer about meaningful and honorable fights, but instead about who's got the bigger epeen, corpse camping, and zerging. This is why open PvP/looting games don't find much success. People just don't enjoy all the garbage that comes with it. I, too, was in love with UO in it's glory days. Sure I had my fair share of being killed, probably more than my fair share actually since I'm not an amazing PvPer. Still, it was fun and, once upon a time, you could usually count on the person who killed you also rezzing you and leaving something on your corpse. It just won't happen anymore. Today's gamers are generally too immature and too full of themselves to consider playing the way we did back then. There are, of course, still some like you and I who still have the honor and decency to not get a kick out of doing things just to ruin someone's day, but we really are the rare finds anymore.
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
this saddens me when i talk about being a UO pk, because the first thing that comes to peoples mind is that i grieve/insult my victims. no i just kill the player loot them and leave things i dont want or need (i do take the head as a trophy tho XD) then i leave them alone. kill them once and be on your way, if they COME AFTER you then kill them againand do the same thing, dont corpse camp, grieve, ect. just kill, loot, then leave.
If you dont realize why DF will have a better community then over current games, I pity you.
You're entitled to your opinion just like I'm entitled to mine. I completely agree with you that UO was all about freedom and consequences and that the community was fantastic.
My only disagreement is that it's the same community that plays today's MMO games. All the complaints that I've read about "today's" MMO community were also present in UO.
I hope that DF's community is just like UO and, honestly, I hope the game is AT LEAST as good as UO was. The only point that I am trying to make is that the community has not changed, only the games.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
..... Alot of gamers cannot grasp the enjoyment of a looting enviroment. They think its griefing and everyone who plays it just wants to annoy people. Its because they havent played it, plain and simply. .....
I played a full looting hardcore eventual perma death MUD for years, it was the best online RPG experience I even had.
But I'm still able to enjoy other games. My gaming live isn't crippled because I had one experience that I can't recreate again.
I enjoy games that have full looting and games that don't. Games that are seamless and games that aren't.
I enjoy MMOs, MUDs, FPSs, RTSs, TBSs, Rockband, Racing games, Old school intellivision and atari games, board card and p&p RPG games.
My dream game doesn't exist, but I don't cry about, complain about, rip on other games that aren't like it. I appreciate all games – period.
And one thing I definitely don't do is put my hopes in a game this isn't released yet, even the ones I'm making.
UO had great freedom and offered sandbox play that is still unmatched.
BUT UO had one big flaw: no endgame what so ever. By this I mean, that after you learned the game inside out, there wasn't much left to do other than become a trader, RP or chaotic PK. And that's what I'm hoping Darkfall will fix, ingame politics and with player made towns, guilds will form kingdoms that will not tolerate random ganksquads in their area. Things become organized and the nature of the game changes, bit like in EVE 0.0 space.
Comments
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
The problem with this is simple.
There hasnt been a game AT ALL, that closely resembled the reward and consequence system in UO.
The market was flooded by games NOT EVEN REMOTELY on track with PvP and meaning.
The irony is that only a game like UO can create a community of players who have to think about what they do and say.
It was the game that created that 'great community' you guys are remembering.
Stop being silly, you already knew this because of common sense.
Viva La Darkfall!
It don't matter if they're laughing with you or at you, so long as they're laughing.
It seems to me that you all are remembering things the way you want to, not the way they actually happened.
First a little history:
I played UO for 7 years. In 2001 when I first heard about DF, after the cancellation of UO2, I couldn't be happier. I thought that in a couple of years I would be playing the next upgrade to the sandbox world that UO was.
Well, we all know that didn't happen.
UO was a fantastic sandbox game, the best MMO to ever come out in my opinion. The problem is, people here seem to be blocking out all of the bad things the game had as well.
There were TONS of gank squads who would kill you, loot you, cut up your body, and then take your body parts home as a trophy they kept in a chest in their house.
The entire housing area north of the Britannia Graveyard was full of PKers who loved to do nothing more than kill the noobs who just started a character and were trying to figure out how to play the game. People would stealth camp dungeons, wait for you to attack a mob, and then come kill and loot you. All of these things also came with insults, name calling, etc...
In today's games there are players that get no greater satisfaction then helping someone else, just like in UO.
I doubt DF will be any different then the way UO was... but if you think the community there was any different then it is in today's games, I would have to say you are completely wrong.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I dont have the time to educate you on common sense, im sorry. So ill keep it short-
I will say this, its a game that enforces consequences for a player's actions.
Majority of the games since UO, have not done this so perfectly.
I dont ignore the bad parts of Ultima Online, I look at them as good things, cause honestly it was all about freedom.
If you dont realize why DF will have a better community then over current games, I pity you.
It don't matter if they're laughing with you or at you, so long as they're laughing.
Woot FFA PvP with full loot!
but yes darkfall looks really good. hopefully it will match UO i loved UO where i would kill someone and it mattered to the community rather than the npc. become a criminal and npcs wont trade with you. thats fine but now with newer mmorpg's players don't care and just assume you are a bot killer now. no i am a pk. i kill real players and take their real gear. and then from doing this players come after you rather than npc guards killing you in 1 hit.
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
I dont have the time to educate you on common sense, im sorry. So ill keep it short-
I will say this, its a game that enforces consequences for a player's actions.
Majority of the games since UO, have not done this so perfectly.
I dont ignore the bad parts of Ultima Online, I look at them as good things, cause honestly it was all about freedom.
If you dont realize why DF will have a better community then over current games, I pity you.
Uo was about freedom. you didn't have to follow the laws and a linear storyline. you could go criminal (pk aka me) and steal things from players, but then the anti-pk or pkk would come and kill you and give everything you own to your victims.
And also a full loot system game will attract some players like me, but thats a small price to pay to possibly rid the game of bots, and children who spam. bots would pronbably be gone because they would be killed and fully looted if they bot and cant fight back because they are not there. the children would be gone because they are to scared to loose their newest ebayed gear.
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
The problem with this is simple.
There hasnt been a game AT ALL, that closely resembled the reward and consequence system in UO.
The market was flooded by games NOT EVEN REMOTELY on track with PvP and meaning.
The irony is that only a game like UO can create a community of players who have to think about what they do and say.
It was the game that created that 'great community' you guys are remembering.
Stop being silly, you already knew this because of common sense.
Viva La Darkfall!
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
I fully agree with everything you said.
Today's gamer leaves a LOT to be desired. They have zero honor and sportmanship. They don't play a game to have a good time. They solely play to stroke their e-peen.
The problems today for full loot PVP games are different than years past. We all would agree that it's an exciting, meaningfull way to play IF everyone is on a somewhat level playing field. BUT... That no longer exists in today's MMO world.
Most PVPers have LARGE e-peens. They will cheat, hack, buy gold online, twink and power level... Well, you get my point. Anything to have an advantage that the actual game developers DIDN'T intend. Then, they will take their e-peens and hunt the weakest (mostly lower level) players they can find. Sort of like a pack of lions in the wild.
This leads to a very small playerbase over time, as most NON e-peen stroking players will NOT put up with the griefing, bad behavior and other teenager nonsense. So, even a very well developed and thought-out game can be brought to it's knees by jerks. We see it time and time again.
If you could develop a full loot, pvp game where you could only have ONE character per server. NO direct player to player trading (which would eliminate gold sellers) and NO player to player emailing of items or gold, THEN, you would have an interesting game. Building your character actually WITHIN the game's design would lead to a much more balanced pvp game.
But... Because the e-peen strokers wouldn't be able to have the advantage, this will never come to pass.
this saddens me when i talk about being a UO pk, because the first thing that comes to peoples mind is that i grieve/insult my victims. no i just kill the player loot them and leave things i dont want or need (i do take the head as a trophy tho XD) then i leave them alone. kill them once and be on your way, if they COME AFTER you then kill them againand do the same thing, dont corpse camp, grieve, ect. just kill, loot, then leave.
Let Them HATE, so long as they FEAR
You're entitled to your opinion just like I'm entitled to mine. I completely agree with you that UO was all about freedom and consequences and that the community was fantastic.
My only disagreement is that it's the same community that plays today's MMO games. All the complaints that I've read about "today's" MMO community were also present in UO.
I hope that DF's community is just like UO and, honestly, I hope the game is AT LEAST as good as UO was. The only point that I am trying to make is that the community has not changed, only the games.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Good post.
I played a full looting hardcore eventual perma death MUD for years, it was the best online RPG experience I even had.
But I'm still able to enjoy other games. My gaming live isn't crippled because I had one experience that I can't recreate again.
I enjoy games that have full looting and games that don't. Games that are seamless and games that aren't.
I enjoy MMOs, MUDs, FPSs, RTSs, TBSs, Rockband, Racing games, Old school intellivision and atari games, board card and p&p RPG games.
My dream game doesn't exist, but I don't cry about, complain about, rip on other games that aren't like it. I appreciate all games – period.
And one thing I definitely don't do is put my hopes in a game this isn't released yet, even the ones I'm making.
I've waited for a full-loot Risk vs Reward PvP game for SO LONG....
UO had great freedom and offered sandbox play that is still unmatched.
BUT UO had one big flaw: no endgame what so ever. By this I mean, that after you learned the game inside out, there wasn't much left to do other than become a trader, RP or chaotic PK. And that's what I'm hoping Darkfall will fix, ingame politics and with player made towns, guilds will form kingdoms that will not tolerate random ganksquads in their area. Things become organized and the nature of the game changes, bit like in EVE 0.0 space.