Kaiser, you seem like someone who enjoys arguing for arguments sake. In reality every issue you mentioned has been met with a definitive answer to prove otherwise. Facts most importantly have shown that you simply do not have to follow any set plan other than the one in which you have made for yourself. If there is an issue with freedom, it is completely in your own hands. You don't have to wear heavy armor to me a melee fighter, nor do you have to use amplifiers to cast magic. The choice is yours, and no one is pressuring you to play in any different manor. If anything, the players as well as Ryzoms tutorials are merely showing you the various possibilities within. Its your choice on how effective you want to be... but let me reitterate for the umphteenth time.... it is still all your choice. I have been with Ryzom for quite some time and truly I don't see the logic in your theory simply because you have taken choice and turned it against yourself.
I am sorry but for now I got almost no arguments on the topic, but I did get quite a few "I know better", "shut up and listen" and a character assassination posts.
That proves what actually? That discussing Ryzom on Ryzom forum with Ryzom veteran players is posible only if one lavishes praises on the game.
I simply stated Ryzom has its limitations, those limitations are game based. I can either be jack of all trades or run with a group, how is that freedom? WoW offers you freedom to grind instances or battlegounds, that is no freedom at all.
Now, I can understand that min-maxers enjoy grinding everything across the chart. I can understand that some people like to play jack of all trades or run around grouped. That is actually a very limited number of choices, most games have limited number of choices.
I subscribed to Ryzom because I beleived what veterans spread around, I tried it and my observation is of a different experince. While playing I noted that am not the only one with that impression. My post stands and I am happy if it provides a counter balance to the others that might shown interest in the game.
Oddly enough I have issues with the game but I do like it or I wouldn't bother with comments. I started as a fence sitter however after tonight it is unlikely I will subscribe to Ryzom when it goes pay to play. While I beleive that community is healthy and friendly I saw extremes tonight and I am not inclined to pay for that privilege.
My special thanks to gatheris and Zorvan for civilized replies
Well I apologize if it seemed as if I was coming off rude, but if you continue to refuse to listen what more can you expect?
Discussing Ryzom is one thing, but spreading mistruths about the games skill system and freedom is another. You have made attempt after attempt to convince us of Ryzom's lack of freedom, yet you can not free yourself from your own thoughts. It has been said time after time, there are alternative paths, and there are ways you can purchase items without even going into other skill trees. That and no one person whether NPC or PC is telling you how or what to do in the game.
The only pressure you are facing is your own self-induced pressures. If your post stands only to counter-balance the positive things in Ryzom, then its purpose it lost. Intentionally making up certain issues, even when faced with the facts truly does nothing to support your entire argument.
While you raise some key issues with Ranged Weaponry, I have yet to disagree with such. If you wish to point out more of its prevalent flaws please feel free to do so. This is the place to do so, but don't expect for others who know the "in's and outs" of Ryzom to call you out on something as blatently false as freedom.
Simply put, we have a disagreement, imagine that happening on the internet.
Ryzom has freedom of action that might be above other games but level of the freedom is limited, at the same time it is presented by the number of vocal posts in absolute terms.
Simply put I received a flaming barrage because I said what few people, yourself included, didn't like to hear. For me that is a form of abuse and I am not interested to hear the justification of the same (especially as this is a trivial matter like a video game). Therefore discussing with you and others of your ilk is closed from my end.
Thank you jackoba and Gilgameesh, the things that you mentioned are those that I learned by hard experience of trials and errors and it would be very useful if I knew them in advance. However, that being said, you did give me a few useful pointers.
You mentioned what works and restrictions that are there for better or for worse. I do beleive that Ryzom offers freedom, most likely above other games on the market at the moment, however that is often presented in absolute terms and that is simply false. In essence it is the issue how you perceive freedom, for some I beleive freedom is absolute in Ryzom while I (and possibly some others) see it as limited.
Naturally I belong to those who don't appreciate the logic that if you find shortcommings in Ryzom there must be something wrong with you. It is a video game after all and I do get a good chuckle fromt he comments like "people cannot handle the freedom!" Of course not, but being Ryzom player you can handle it and thus you are superior to the riff-raff (who is probably so mentally challenged as to be only fit to play asian grinders). Elitism is a double edged sword and I don't think it is a good addition tot he game that is trying to gather new followers.
I don't plan to discuss the matter further however I would appreciate more constructive comments like those made by jackoba, Sasi, and Gilgameesh.
On the unrelated note, for me it is both sad and funny that people pour so much passion into the issue of online gaming. I could understand it if the topic of discussion was politics or maybe economy but instead the focus are pixels on the screen. Talk about priorities.
#1 The bugs I mentioned are, for example, ranged combat always reverting to auto attack after special attack. That auto attack cannot be stopped unless the desired special attack is double clicked after which it repeats itself. The ammo loss is enormous and damage is insignificant. #2 As the things stand now that is impossible in Ryzom, quite simply you cannot be whatever you want to be - instead you have to be everything or your character will simply not be competitive.
#1 Those are not bugs. Like in almost any game Melee auto attack is the default attack and auto attack continues between special moves. Secondly the other melee/ranged item you talk about as a bug is actually one of the best features. You can double tap a melee/ranged ability in order to keep that the default action to repeat; which is awesome.
Don't forget that any action can be canceled by hitting ctrl+s. You can remap that to a different key if you want as well.
#2 With all due respect your entire #2 argument is flawed at best. Don't take offense to that comment. Let me explain why. In other games you can't go solo a dungeon as a healer, or a tank, or a damage dealer. You depend on others and form a group that cover all your weaknesses with each others strengths. In other games some people create "Alt" characters to try other roles.
In Ryzom however you can pursue any of these on one character. If you put in the time and master both 2h melee and healing or both elemental magic and 1h melee that means you can switch gear/jewels/weapons out and serve 1 of 2 roles in a group and makes you that much more flexible. As an added bonus in the game when you master more skills there are bonuses that you can receive such as higher resistances etc. No one forces you to level melee to have more points to spend on your HP. =P
On one more sidenote the game is balanced well this way too. You can't launch a huge ball of fire from a mile away, smash someone with your hammer and then heal yourself to full because you have all 3 skills up high. Self heal is on a timer, and all other heal spells only work on others. If you cast in heavy armor there are severe range and spell cost penalties. When in caster gear your weapon is "amps" you wear on your hands that double the strength and halve the time of your casting spells. It's a very very well thought out system.
We're people supporting something we enjoy. You're like deporting something you hate when there are more important things like an election, world hunger, and global warming about.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
When I first started playing ryzom all I was interested in was offensive magic, so thats all I pretty much did. Sure I picked up a few heal levels here and there on the way but my main focus was off magic. My friends and guild helped me out with equipment at later levels and I went all the way to 250.
Now that I had magic set I wanted to set myself a new goal. I played around with diggin and crafting but wasn't feeling it so much. I decided to max my melee and gain those extra HP points. I mostly leveled in light armour, I had less protection but a higher dodge factor. This also enabled me to easily switch between melee and magic.
All gear has Pros and Cons it's your choice how you mix these combinations to get a style of play that suits you. Ryzom is about setting yourself a goal and then achieving it, what that goal might be is entirely up to you.
You could aim to have the best PVP character and Gear.
Maybe you'd like to be the best crafter and make the most player wanted gear.
Maybe you just want to make some friends you can hang out in thesos bar with and for a chat.
Or even run from one side of the map to the other wearing just your pants!
Its totally up to you.
------------------------------------------------ Founder ofThe Divine Council of Pyr MMO:Ryzom - RF Online ------------------------------------------------ Ryzom FREE Trial: PLAY NOW!!! - The must play MMO!
Ahh yes, I see metalhead980 is promoting that friendly Ryzom community and that is the veteran attitude I was mentioning before. Thank you for proving my point.
I could be wrong, but I think metalhead980 started playing only recently so how is he proving your point exactly?
Thank you jackoba and Gilgameesh, the things that you mentioned are those that I learned by hard experience of trials and errors and it would be very useful if I knew them in advance. However, that being said, you did give me a few useful pointers. You mentioned what works and restrictions that are there for better or for worse. I do beleive that Ryzom offers freedom, most likely above other games on the market at the moment, however that is often presented in absolute terms and that is simply false. In essence it is the issue how you perceive freedom, for some I beleive freedom is absolute in Ryzom while I (and possibly some others) see it as limited. Naturally I belong to those who don't appreciate the logic that if you find shortcommings in Ryzom there must be something wrong with you. It is a video game after all and I do get a good chuckle fromt he comments like "people cannot handle the freedom!" Of course not, but being Ryzom player you can handle it and thus you are superior to the riff-raff (who is probably so mentally challenged as to be only fit to play asian grinders). Elitism is a double edged sword and I don't think it is a good addition tot he game that is trying to gather new followers. I don't plan to discuss the matter further however I would appreciate more constructive comments like those made by jackoba, Sasi, and Gilgameesh. On the unrelated note, for me it is both sad and funny that people pour so much passion into the issue of online gaming. I could understand it if the topic of discussion was politics or maybe economy but instead the focus are pixels on the screen. Talk about priorities.
First of all, you have appreciated some answer, and I thank you for this.
Just to show my point of view on some of the arguments presented:
The elitism is something always present in any game, more or less. I don't think it's possible to avoid it totally. And the recent problems of the game have 'packed' the community against the misfortunes of the game. In any community there is the good and bad. I think the good is much more than the bad in Ryzom, but this can be true in any game you settled successfuly and spent some time having fun.
To specifiy more about the 'freedom' I can speak something about my experience in the past, considering I played, since 2003, a lot of MMORPGs.
When I started Ryzom in 2004 i also started EQ2 at the same time. They were both new games, and my only experience at the time were Anarchy Online (my first ever MMO) and Myst/URU Live Prologue.
When I started playing EQ2, I was, at first, amazed of the graphics, then I was suddenly overwhelmed by quests that i had to do to continue further into game. I didn't liked it. Was not a game fault, just my tastes: looking the quest journal just gave me a bad feelings... I was not having fun.
When I started playing Ryzom, I found myself in the old training islands (Silan was not there at the time), specifically I started in the tryker training island. That kind of starting area were much more similar to the mainland than Silan today (that, you know, is quest driven).
Now, have you ever read any sci-fi book? Something like you awake and, instead of finding yourself in your bed, you are in a strange, unknown place: you don't know how you arrived there, you know nothing about what's happened, you feels just 'lost'. Then the story move on till the last page.
That was my feeling when I started Ryzom. I was just in a strange place, without any knowledge on what I had to do to understand what's happening. I feeled lost, but at the same time, I started doing what I would have done (with my fantasy, trying to anticipate the following story) if Ryzom was a book: going to explore, to understand the places, what npc's could tell me, etc....
And I found me totally free to approach the story, trying to move on:
I found a dangerous world, where you need to be strong to survive;
I found other people having the same problem and trying to figure out what to do in Atys.
The same freedom I found (partially but still good) in Anarchy Online, despite that game has more restrictions, it has a good 'sandbox' feeling built into it. Not as Ryzom, tho, because of the incredible living ecosystem built in Atys.
Of course, the freedom is how you want to discover what you can do, how you do it, and what the limitations are, or what counter-actions you need to fullfill your goals.
I know, I'm speaking as a fan of the game, but, being a mature player (i'm not so young), i can tell you:
I liked AO, I liked CoH (that's the opposite of Ryzom), liked EVE... there are many good games around.
But at the end, the freedom is in your mind. You can be repetitive in Ryzom the same as in CoH, the difference is that in CoH you have no other choices other than following the predetermined missions, in Ryzom you can choose: I've seen players in Ryzom just going to kill plants over and over, because someone told that's the best way to level. I killed no more than 200-300 plants in 4 years and I preferred doing also less efficient things, but a lot more fun (for me). I don't think that the players killing just the plants are wrong, just that the freedom is there, it's up to you to decide how to play.
Originally posted by Machieltje Ahh yes, I see metalhead980 is promoting that friendly Ryzom community and that is the veteran attitude I was mentioning before. Thank you for proving my point.
I could be wrong, but I think metalhead980 started playing only recently so how is he proving your point exactly?
While there is no way for the passerby (or the OP) to know this, the posters who have made the most reasonable and helpful posts in this thread are also the most veteran players of Ryzom in the thread.
(I'll always be a noob, still learning at the feet of my elders. Except Jack, I only ever see him afk. Something about him being several hours ahead of me, go figure)
I think this holds true for the in-game experience as well. The loudest mouths are rarely the ones you should listen to.
Perhaps there's a life lesson in that...
@Kaiserjager: I'd still love to hear from you in-game. I should be around this weekend quite a bit.
Ahh yes, I see metalhead980 is promoting that friendly Ryzom community and that is the veteran attitude I was mentioning before. Thank you for proving my point.
I could be wrong, but I think metalhead980 started playing only recently so how is he proving your point exactly?
While there is no way for the passerby (or the OP) to know this *snip*
Which was the point I was making, who are the veterans and who are new players defending a game they've recently discovered and grown to like/love?
(though in the case of metalhead it is merely a matter of reading this forum...)
One of the things that bugs me is the way some people assume that if there's any smugness going on or any elitisting being commited it must be the veterans doing it...
I just started in this game Saturday and Im having a blast still on noob island Im planning to be everything (causeI like having that option :O ) Im seeing none of these bugs Im seeing no problems with the vets as they are very friendly and helpful. And I look forward to going to the mainland soon which wont be much longer all my combat and magic skills are almost 50 now cant wait
Welcome to Ryzom Firefly. Glad you are enjoying the game.
------------------------------------------------ Founder ofThe Divine Council of Pyr MMO:Ryzom - RF Online ------------------------------------------------ Ryzom FREE Trial: PLAY NOW!!! - The must play MMO!
Originally posted by firefly2003 I just started in this game Saturday and Im having a blast still on noob island Im planning to be everything (causeI like having that option :O ) Im seeing none of these bugs Im seeing no problems with the vets as they are very friendly and helpful. And I look forward to going to the mainland soon which wont be much longer all my combat and magic skills are almost 50 now cant wait
I also start playng this game after a long watching on this one but never got the chance to actualy doo trie it out, but 3 days a go i download it and log in for the first time.This game is a blast for me and i realy enjoy it a lot.I have played in the past many games but to give u an example about wot freedom means i will take Lineage 2 that i play for about 3 years.I love to pve-pvp so in L2 i was a crafter-spoiler-bladedancer.3 dieferent caracters to feed my need of making wot i like.But in Ryzom will not be the case to do that and i like that.One caracter,all clases that i can trie,craft my items with same caracter,of course it is in the ande my choice,and that is what not soo many games out ther have. I will play this game from now till Aion release as primal option. On the topic:pls guys continue this debate becouse i always have somthing new and helpful to learn about the game:P
Comments
Freedom is out there. Just find your way in to it
"Don't argue with dick-heads, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"
I am sorry but for now I got almost no arguments on the topic, but I did get quite a few "I know better", "shut up and listen" and a character assassination posts.
That proves what actually? That discussing Ryzom on Ryzom forum with Ryzom veteran players is posible only if one lavishes praises on the game.
I simply stated Ryzom has its limitations, those limitations are game based. I can either be jack of all trades or run with a group, how is that freedom? WoW offers you freedom to grind instances or battlegounds, that is no freedom at all.
Now, I can understand that min-maxers enjoy grinding everything across the chart. I can understand that some people like to play jack of all trades or run around grouped. That is actually a very limited number of choices, most games have limited number of choices.
I subscribed to Ryzom because I beleived what veterans spread around, I tried it and my observation is of a different experince. While playing I noted that am not the only one with that impression. My post stands and I am happy if it provides a counter balance to the others that might shown interest in the game.
Oddly enough I have issues with the game but I do like it or I wouldn't bother with comments. I started as a fence sitter however after tonight it is unlikely I will subscribe to Ryzom when it goes pay to play. While I beleive that community is healthy and friendly I saw extremes tonight and I am not inclined to pay for that privilege.
My special thanks to gatheris and Zorvan for civilized replies
Well I apologize if it seemed as if I was coming off rude, but if you continue to refuse to listen what more can you expect?
Discussing Ryzom is one thing, but spreading mistruths about the games skill system and freedom is another. You have made attempt after attempt to convince us of Ryzom's lack of freedom, yet you can not free yourself from your own thoughts. It has been said time after time, there are alternative paths, and there are ways you can purchase items without even going into other skill trees. That and no one person whether NPC or PC is telling you how or what to do in the game.
The only pressure you are facing is your own self-induced pressures. If your post stands only to counter-balance the positive things in Ryzom, then its purpose it lost. Intentionally making up certain issues, even when faced with the facts truly does nothing to support your entire argument.
While you raise some key issues with Ranged Weaponry, I have yet to disagree with such. If you wish to point out more of its prevalent flaws please feel free to do so. This is the place to do so, but don't expect for others who know the "in's and outs" of Ryzom to call you out on something as blatently false as freedom.
Simply put, we have a disagreement, imagine that happening on the internet.
Ryzom has freedom of action that might be above other games but level of the freedom is limited, at the same time it is presented by the number of vocal posts in absolute terms.
Simply put I received a flaming barrage because I said what few people, yourself included, didn't like to hear. For me that is a form of abuse and I am not interested to hear the justification of the same (especially as this is a trivial matter like a video game). Therefore discussing with you and others of your ilk is closed from my end.
Thank you jackoba and Gilgameesh, the things that you mentioned are those that I learned by hard experience of trials and errors and it would be very useful if I knew them in advance. However, that being said, you did give me a few useful pointers.
You mentioned what works and restrictions that are there for better or for worse. I do beleive that Ryzom offers freedom, most likely above other games on the market at the moment, however that is often presented in absolute terms and that is simply false. In essence it is the issue how you perceive freedom, for some I beleive freedom is absolute in Ryzom while I (and possibly some others) see it as limited.
Naturally I belong to those who don't appreciate the logic that if you find shortcommings in Ryzom there must be something wrong with you. It is a video game after all and I do get a good chuckle fromt he comments like "people cannot handle the freedom!" Of course not, but being Ryzom player you can handle it and thus you are superior to the riff-raff (who is probably so mentally challenged as to be only fit to play asian grinders). Elitism is a double edged sword and I don't think it is a good addition tot he game that is trying to gather new followers.
I don't plan to discuss the matter further however I would appreciate more constructive comments like those made by jackoba, Sasi, and Gilgameesh.
On the unrelated note, for me it is both sad and funny that people pour so much passion into the issue of online gaming. I could understand it if the topic of discussion was politics or maybe economy but instead the focus are pixels on the screen. Talk about priorities.
#1 Those are not bugs. Like in almost any game Melee auto attack is the default attack and auto attack continues between special moves. Secondly the other melee/ranged item you talk about as a bug is actually one of the best features. You can double tap a melee/ranged ability in order to keep that the default action to repeat; which is awesome.
Don't forget that any action can be canceled by hitting ctrl+s. You can remap that to a different key if you want as well.
#2 With all due respect your entire #2 argument is flawed at best. Don't take offense to that comment. Let me explain why. In other games you can't go solo a dungeon as a healer, or a tank, or a damage dealer. You depend on others and form a group that cover all your weaknesses with each others strengths. In other games some people create "Alt" characters to try other roles.
In Ryzom however you can pursue any of these on one character.
If you put in the time and master both 2h melee and healing or both elemental magic and 1h melee that means you can switch gear/jewels/weapons out and serve 1 of 2 roles in a group and makes you that much more flexible. As an added bonus in the game when you master more skills there are bonuses that you can receive such as higher resistances etc. No one forces you to level melee to have more points to spend on your HP. =P
On one more sidenote the game is balanced well this way too. You can't launch a huge ball of fire from a mile away, smash someone with your hammer and then heal yourself to full because you have all 3 skills up high. Self heal is on a timer, and all other heal spells only work on others. If you cast in heavy armor there are severe range and spell cost penalties. When in caster gear your weapon is "amps" you wear on your hands that double the strength and halve the time of your casting spells. It's a very very well thought out system.
- Sarc
We're people supporting something we enjoy. You're like deporting something you hate when there are more important things like an election, world hunger, and global warming about.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
When I first started playing ryzom all I was interested in was offensive magic, so thats all I pretty much did. Sure I picked up a few heal levels here and there on the way but my main focus was off magic. My friends and guild helped me out with equipment at later levels and I went all the way to 250.
Now that I had magic set I wanted to set myself a new goal. I played around with diggin and crafting but wasn't feeling it so much. I decided to max my melee and gain those extra HP points. I mostly leveled in light armour, I had less protection but a higher dodge factor. This also enabled me to easily switch between melee and magic.
All gear has Pros and Cons it's your choice how you mix these combinations to get a style of play that suits you. Ryzom is about setting yourself a goal and then achieving it, what that goal might be is entirely up to you.
You could aim to have the best PVP character and Gear.
Maybe you'd like to be the best crafter and make the most player wanted gear.
Maybe you just want to make some friends you can hang out in thesos bar with and for a chat.
Or even run from one side of the map to the other wearing just your pants!
Its totally up to you.
------------------------------------------------
Founder of The Divine Council of Pyr
MMO: Ryzom - RF Online
------------------------------------------------
Ryzom FREE Trial: PLAY NOW!!! - The must play MMO!
Me too
I could be wrong, but I think metalhead980 started playing only recently so how is he proving your point exactly?
First of all, you have appreciated some answer, and I thank you for this.
Just to show my point of view on some of the arguments presented:
The elitism is something always present in any game, more or less. I don't think it's possible to avoid it totally. And the recent problems of the game have 'packed' the community against the misfortunes of the game. In any community there is the good and bad. I think the good is much more than the bad in Ryzom, but this can be true in any game you settled successfuly and spent some time having fun.
To specifiy more about the 'freedom' I can speak something about my experience in the past, considering I played, since 2003, a lot of MMORPGs.
When I started Ryzom in 2004 i also started EQ2 at the same time. They were both new games, and my only experience at the time were Anarchy Online (my first ever MMO) and Myst/URU Live Prologue.
When I started playing EQ2, I was, at first, amazed of the graphics, then I was suddenly overwhelmed by quests that i had to do to continue further into game. I didn't liked it. Was not a game fault, just my tastes: looking the quest journal just gave me a bad feelings... I was not having fun.
When I started playing Ryzom, I found myself in the old training islands (Silan was not there at the time), specifically I started in the tryker training island. That kind of starting area were much more similar to the mainland than Silan today (that, you know, is quest driven).
Now, have you ever read any sci-fi book? Something like you awake and, instead of finding yourself in your bed, you are in a strange, unknown place: you don't know how you arrived there, you know nothing about what's happened, you feels just 'lost'. Then the story move on till the last page.
That was my feeling when I started Ryzom. I was just in a strange place, without any knowledge on what I had to do to understand what's happening. I feeled lost, but at the same time, I started doing what I would have done (with my fantasy, trying to anticipate the following story) if Ryzom was a book: going to explore, to understand the places, what npc's could tell me, etc....
And I found me totally free to approach the story, trying to move on:
I found a dangerous world, where you need to be strong to survive;
I found other people having the same problem and trying to figure out what to do in Atys.
The same freedom I found (partially but still good) in Anarchy Online, despite that game has more restrictions, it has a good 'sandbox' feeling built into it. Not as Ryzom, tho, because of the incredible living ecosystem built in Atys.
Of course, the freedom is how you want to discover what you can do, how you do it, and what the limitations are, or what counter-actions you need to fullfill your goals.
I know, I'm speaking as a fan of the game, but, being a mature player (i'm not so young), i can tell you:
I liked AO, I liked CoH (that's the opposite of Ryzom), liked EVE... there are many good games around.
But at the end, the freedom is in your mind. You can be repetitive in Ryzom the same as in CoH, the difference is that in CoH you have no other choices other than following the predetermined missions, in Ryzom you can choose: I've seen players in Ryzom just going to kill plants over and over, because someone told that's the best way to level. I killed no more than 200-300 plants in 4 years and I preferred doing also less efficient things, but a lot more fun (for me). I don't think that the players killing just the plants are wrong, just that the freedom is there, it's up to you to decide how to play.
Nickname registered on www.mynickname.org
While there is no way for the passerby (or the OP) to know this, the posters who have made the most reasonable and helpful posts in this thread are also the most veteran players of Ryzom in the thread.
(I'll always be a noob, still learning at the feet of my elders. Except Jack, I only ever see him afk. Something about him being several hours ahead of me, go figure)
I think this holds true for the in-game experience as well. The loudest mouths are rarely the ones you should listen to.
Perhaps there's a life lesson in that...
@Kaiserjager:
I'd still love to hear from you in-game. I should be around this weekend quite a bit.
===============================
Sasi
Guild Leader of Pegasus Foundation
in Ryzom
I could be wrong, but I think metalhead980 started playing only recently so how is he proving your point exactly?
While there is no way for the passerby (or the OP) to know this *snip*
Which was the point I was making, who are the veterans and who are new players defending a game they've recently discovered and grown to like/love?
(though in the case of metalhead it is merely a matter of reading this forum...)
One of the things that bugs me is the way some people assume that if there's any smugness going on or any elitisting being commited it must be the veterans doing it...
I just started in this game Saturday and Im having a blast still on noob island Im planning to be everything (causeI like having that option :O ) Im seeing none of these bugs Im seeing no problems with the vets as they are very friendly and helpful. And I look forward to going to the mainland soon
which wont be much longer all my combat and magic skills are almost 50 now 
cant wait 
Welcome to Ryzom Firefly. Glad you are enjoying the game.
------------------------------------------------
Founder of The Divine Council of Pyr
MMO: Ryzom - RF Online
------------------------------------------------
Ryzom FREE Trial: PLAY NOW!!! - The must play MMO!
I will play this game from now till Aion release as primal option.
On the topic:pls guys continue this debate becouse i always have somthing new and helpful to learn about the game:P