UO did it to cater to the care bears and attract that type of player which worked for some time. Most people agree though that Trammel was the start of the end for UO. It just became a money maker for EA at that point and they started releasing expansions like Samurai Empire or the elves thing. Just brutal. The fact that DF creators know that they are likely losing a lot of players (yet attracting a fair bit) by doing full loot, is an indication that they care more for a solid and honest gameplay experience as opposed to being focused on making money themselves. Having to replace gear leads to a better ingame economy, people actually buy weapons off other players. What a crazy idea. Khael also made the good point of down time b/w deaths also. Killing someone will actually give an advantage that lasts more than a minute or two on the battlefield and opens up a lot of new strategic decisions. The problem is the MMO mindset that Risk vs. Reward is basically non-existant.
Risk vs. Reward should be a focal theme for all MMOs.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
Farming so that resources can be sunk into PvP is exactly what EVE is all about, and its one of the most successful MMOs out there - why would a similar philosophy not work in DF?
Every time I read a post saying "Full loot PvP is doomed to fail", i think to myself..... but what about EVE?
Yes successful. Most? No way in hell.
At most they only have 250k subs so I've been told on this forums. But I've heard its as low as 150k subs. In a the new MMO generation that's a flippin failure.
So by your standards of success this game will flop!
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
UO did it to cater to the care bears and attract that type of player which worked for some time. Most people agree though that Trammel was the start of the end for UO. It just became a money maker for EA at that point and they started releasing expansions like Samurai Empire or the elves thing. Just brutal. The fact that DF creators know that they are likely losing a lot of players (yet attracting a fair bit) by doing full loot, is an indication that they care more for a solid and honest gameplay experience as opposed to being focused on making money themselves. Having to replace gear leads to a better ingame economy, people actually buy weapons off other players. What a crazy idea. Khael also made the good point of down time b/w deaths also. Killing someone will actually give an advantage that lasts more than a minute or two on the battlefield and opens up a lot of new strategic decisions. The problem is the MMO mindset that Risk vs. Reward is basically non-existant.
Risk vs. Reward should be a focal theme for all MMOs.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
Farming so that resources can be sunk into PvP is exactly what EVE is all about, and its one of the most successful MMOs out there - why would a similar philosophy not work in DF?
Every time I read a post saying "Full loot PvP is doomed to fail", i think to myself..... but what about EVE?
Yes successful. Most? No way in hell.
At most they only have 250k subs so I've been told on this forums. But I've heard its as low as 150k subs. In a the new MMO generation that's a flippin failure.
So by your standards of success this game will flop!
Comparing any MMO to the standard set by WoW automatically makes it a flop in terms of subscription. I'd be content if DF will have 20 servers with 10k players each. But I'm expecting more than that over time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.
History is studied to avoid to repeat the same mistakes. The denial of the past wont help. The prove is the history that we will witnessed and if you didnt witnessed because you werent playing them, then consider to read about them.
I still think a FFA PvP w/full looting is possible but will depend a lot in the core design of the game. We will have to wait and see what Aventurine actually did to know if it will survive or not.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.
History is studied to avoid to repeat the same mistakes. The denial of the past wont help. The prove is the history that we will witnessed and if you didnt witnessed because you werent playing them, then consider to read about them.
I still think a FFA PvP w/full looting is possible but will depend a lot in the core design of the game. We will have to wait and see what Aventurine actually did to know if it will survive or not.
That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.
I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc. I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.
UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all
Having a 2nd character on the same account to supply your PK wasn't out of the norm, was it?
You will be allowed only one char per server. So to supply your PK needs you will need a second account.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
Having a 2nd character on the same account to supply your PK wasn't out of the norm, was it?
You will be allowed only one char per server. So to supply your PK needs you will need a second account.
I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.
1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.
Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you. 1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play. Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you. 1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play. Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
For this to have ANY chance of working there needs to be consequences. You need to be stuck with your character and his actions, if you kill newbies hundred times over then face the consequences that you will be known as a newbie-killer, you will be flagged evil and will be hunted down.
Having the possibility of more characters make you able to hide behind anonymity, and you can have an evil character who can't enter cities. Well, no problem.. just switch over to your other character and make sure he supplies your evil character with whatever he needs.
Want to be a crafter? Why would you, cause you will never be anything special. With multiple characters, everyone will have their own crafter and everybody will be self-sufficient, which takes away the dynamics out of the economy system.
About Full Loot
It's simple. Plan ahead. Before a guild goes into battle you can be sure they will set up a point for re-equiping before heading out again. Besides, everyone starts with basic gear dependant on your skill set. No-one wakes up naked.
Besides, most battles won't be ongoing for hours. If two guilds fight and meet up at a battlefield, the battle should be short enough so that there's no point for killed persons to equip and join up again. The losing side will most likely equip, gather up and meet the other guild at another battlefield, probably closer to their own city (if they have one).
Once again you can easily reference Eve on this. Eve took a few hours, to day, or weeks for replacing ships, depending on what ships you were flying. However, Eve also encouraged alliances and corps to come up with their own policies concerned loss of equipment in battle, such as battleship replacement in a huge war.
I can see the same type of things happening within Darkfall. There will be those that are resource gatherers and econmists only, and big clans are most likely going to make deals with those people to replace lost assets in a war.
This game is not about epic items, and it's not level based; replacing the regular average equipment will be easy and most people as well as guilds will stockpile a ton of it for wear and tear and future conflicts. There are some items that will be higher quality but not overpowering and those will be made by players and guilds who compete over resource spawns and or trade in order to obtain the resources necessary to mass produce these items.
Everything has wear and tear and breaks down, some can be repaired but only up to a certain point; trade and crafing professions will be very important.
If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get. There will be a ton of PVP so expect to be killed and looted, but don't worry guilds as well as individuals will be stockpiling items expect to have at least 5 or 6 sets of armor weapons in your bank. The problem here is not geting the items from NPC's, the problem is competing over resources with other guilds and players; if and when a war starts expect to die and loose items; if its a long drawn out war the armory may be depleted. The key here will be building a city and maintaining it under your control, the city itself is a hudge asset and buildings there will serve as the manufacturing base and the conversion of resources into armors and weapons.
There's no overpowering armor or weapons, the gear produced by players is more valuable then NPC's cause it has more bonuses but it wont effect the outcome by that much, player skill and tactics are much much more important.
If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get.
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get.
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Gives a pretty coin? Or just for a trophy? Besides, i think crafted items will have more endurance/performance than a weapon that a monster have been using.
The speed of the mole and the power of steel is my weapon
I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you. 1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play. Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
It would be hillarious if they implemented logic that said player X appears to be handing over look to someone who by rights should be killing them, faction hit and second account has same problems as the first.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Am I the only one that sees the similarity in this to planetside? The way I see it, gear probably won't be much harder to attain than it was in PS, obviously it will be more than just walking up to an equipment terminal but probably not that much different. Stockpiling gear will probably be very easy and pain free.
In planetside the world fluctuated constantly any battle you won an hour ago would often be taken as soon as you left, very close respawns lead to long stale mates and it never meant much to die. Darkfall the respawns will not be close together, and I doubt many stalements beyond sieging will occur. But clearly in Darkfall gear means close to nothing. There will be plenty of opportunities for everyone to full loot everyone, so if you lose a set or two just pick up someone elses gear when you return to the battle. If you are dying instantly everytime you are returning to that battle, why are you returning?
If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get.
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Gives a pretty coin? Or just for a trophy? Besides, i think crafted items will have more endurance/performance than a weapon that a monster have been using.
But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Not every mob will have weapons and armor, A skeleton soldier will or a simmilar mob that carries them a bear for example wont have drops like that when you kill a bear you will ger fur and maybe bear claws. The items that drop of these NPC mobs is not useless, NPC mobs and their spawns as well as dungeons are also resources that your guild may have access to. Players can craft any items, the differance between NPC items and player crafter ones may be different bonuses, but that does not render NPC items useless since none of the items are level based and GODLY.
Everything from Spawns NPC's and what they carry depending on the mob is still a resource; players will be competing over these and they will trade them. Skill, strategy and tactics come into play here more so then Items do; what good is a sword if you don't know how to weild it. There are no non essential drops or filler items like you see in other games, if it drops off a mob or a player crafts it then it can be used; the question is can you master the tactics that come into play with weilding the weapon. Items are there and they are apart of the Game, they compliment the Game play and add a sense of immersion to it they don't DOMINATE IT.
But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
That is what cities and ships are - activities that have much bigger risk/reward levels. High level PvE encounters might also need top level equipment. It is actually good that you can engage in relatively low-risk activities while still doing PvP - and the level of risk can be adjusted by each person individually.
The thing with equipment is self-regulating - the wealthier can afford to risk more and lose more with it meaning relatively little, while the poor can just use junk equipment and even winning few fights can make them wealthier.
After certain time, the small difference in character power due to higher tier eq will outweight the price. Imagine running 30 minutes looking for fight and then getting barelly killed because using junk eq... look at EvE, where people fly in faction battleships with faction fit that are just a little more powerfull than the ordinary ones, only the cost being bilions instead of 50m (when substracting insurance cost).
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Not every mob will have weapons and armor, A skeleton soldier will or a simmilar mob that carries them a bear for example wont have drops like that when you kill a bear you will ger fur and maybe bear claws. The items that drop of these NPC mobs is not useless, NPC mobs and their spawns as well as dungeons are also resources that your guild may have access to. Players can craft any items, the differance between NPC items and player crafter ones may be different bonuses, but that does not render NPC items useless since none of the items are level based and GODLY. Everything from Spawns NPC's and what they carry depending on the mob is still a resource; players will be competing over these and they will trade them. Skill, strategy and tactics come into play here more so then Items do; what good is a sword if you don't know how to weild it. There are no non essential drops or filler items like you see in other games, if it drops off a mob or a player crafts it then it can be used; the question is can you master the tactics that come into play with weilding the weapon. Items are there and they are apart of the Game, they compliment the Game play and add a sense of immersion to it they don't DOMINATE IT.
you sound as if you have played this game for years. But in truth, nobody has played it. So you don't know how it will work. The only thing we have to go on is UO, since we played that game, and it had similar rules. And it was a failure and was gotten rid of.
So it was a total failure in UO, and Darkfall will do the same thing, and yet it will be a totall success this time? That makes no sense.
So keep dreaming you bizarre fantasises about how wonderful full looting will be. The truth will be much different.
[quote]Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.[/quote]
That's not true. Asheron's Call didn't die, and Darktide is the most populated server, which has FFA PvP and full looting.
I think good loot will exist in this game, it will just be difficult to hold on to. In AC, you drop the items with the highest value. In order to keep the items you use, you have to hunt for death items. This game is different because you will drop whatever you are wearing. So, you will need to keep backup equipment, and spend time getting more. While we don't know the details yet, expect very stat-based loot just as we are getting very stat-based character advancement.
Comments
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
Farming so that resources can be sunk into PvP is exactly what EVE is all about, and its one of the most successful MMOs out there - why would a similar philosophy not work in DF?
Every time I read a post saying "Full loot PvP is doomed to fail", i think to myself..... but what about EVE?
Yes successful. Most? No way in hell.
At most they only have 250k subs so I've been told on this forums. But I've heard its as low as 150k subs. In a the new MMO generation that's a flippin failure.
So by your standards of success this game will flop!
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
If this game does come out will full looting, ill be the jack ass ganking your ass and stealin your shit.
O and my name will the same as my forum name
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
The fact is that some people are going to lose a lot more than they win. And those people are going to have to spend most of their time farming, and not much time pvping. They will get tired of that and quit the game. Eventually there won't be enough people left to keep the game running. So people who want full loot pvp are really just slitting their own throats.
Farming so that resources can be sunk into PvP is exactly what EVE is all about, and its one of the most successful MMOs out there - why would a similar philosophy not work in DF?
Every time I read a post saying "Full loot PvP is doomed to fail", i think to myself..... but what about EVE?
Yes successful. Most? No way in hell.
At most they only have 250k subs so I've been told on this forums. But I've heard its as low as 150k subs. In a the new MMO generation that's a flippin failure.
So by your standards of success this game will flop!
Comparing any MMO to the standard set by WoW automatically makes it a flop in terms of subscription. I'd be content if DF will have 20 servers with 10k players each. But I'm expecting more than that over time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.
History is studied to avoid to repeat the same mistakes. The denial of the past wont help. The prove is the history that we will witnessed and if you didnt witnessed because you werent playing them, then consider to read about them.
I still think a FFA PvP w/full looting is possible but will depend a lot in the core design of the game. We will have to wait and see what Aventurine actually did to know if it will survive or not.
It'll just mean the people who prefer to farm will have to *gasp* work together and rely on one another to ensure their safety. You're right a lot of people will give up and go back to easy mode raids in WoW where if you wipe it's not a big deal, but WoW can keep those players.
DF will offer excitement. People can decide if a more fun atmosphere is worth the risk.
And when everyone leaves you will have no one to gank/grief. And then you wont even have a game to play.
You're not proving anything with baseless assumptions.
Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.
History is studied to avoid to repeat the same mistakes. The denial of the past wont help. The prove is the history that we will witnessed and if you didnt witnessed because you werent playing them, then consider to read about them.
I still think a FFA PvP w/full looting is possible but will depend a lot in the core design of the game. We will have to wait and see what Aventurine actually did to know if it will survive or not.
That's true. However it is important to note that there will be gameplay elements in place that will make being an all out PK'er hard to pull of. You will be an outcast, buying supplies will be hard, you will be hunted etc.
I think the fact the game has been in development for so long is a testament to the thought they are putting into the game.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
UO had the same consequences for pkers. And they didn't work at all
Having a 2nd character on the same account to supply your PK wasn't out of the norm, was it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
You will be allowed only one char per server. So to supply your PK needs you will need a second account.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
You will be allowed only one char per server. So to supply your PK needs you will need a second account.
I was referring to UO where having a 2nd or 3rd character to support your PK was possible. Same point I was trying to make as you.
1 character per account means people will really have to make a difficult choice on what style of character they want to play.
Going on a mass murder spree will have serious consequences since you can't help yourself out with a mule character or w/e... Unless you want to pay for a 2nd account.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
Again, a baseless assumption. I wouldn't mind the option of a second account but paying an extra $15/mo or w/e it is for a game is out of the picture for me. I'm not gonna say some people aren't gonna do it, I just don't see it being the problem you're making it out to be.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Self-confessed DF fanboy. Finally a real ****ing MMO.
About multiple characters (SRA)
Darkfall is FFA PvP.
For this to have ANY chance of working there needs to be consequences. You need to be stuck with your character and his actions, if you kill newbies hundred times over then face the consequences that you will be known as a newbie-killer, you will be flagged evil and will be hunted down.
Having the possibility of more characters make you able to hide behind anonymity, and you can have an evil character who can't enter cities. Well, no problem.. just switch over to your other character and make sure he supplies your evil character with whatever he needs.
Want to be a crafter? Why would you, cause you will never be anything special. With multiple characters, everyone will have their own crafter and everybody will be self-sufficient, which takes away the dynamics out of the economy system.
About Full Loot
It's simple. Plan ahead. Before a guild goes into battle you can be sure they will set up a point for re-equiping before heading out again. Besides, everyone starts with basic gear dependant on your skill set. No-one wakes up naked.
Besides, most battles won't be ongoing for hours. If two guilds fight and meet up at a battlefield, the battle should be short enough so that there's no point for killed persons to equip and join up again. The losing side will most likely equip, gather up and meet the other guild at another battlefield, probably closer to their own city (if they have one).
Once again you can easily reference Eve on this. Eve took a few hours, to day, or weeks for replacing ships, depending on what ships you were flying. However, Eve also encouraged alliances and corps to come up with their own policies concerned loss of equipment in battle, such as battleship replacement in a huge war.
I can see the same type of things happening within Darkfall. There will be those that are resource gatherers and econmists only, and big clans are most likely going to make deals with those people to replace lost assets in a war.
This game is not about epic items, and it's not level based; replacing the regular average equipment will be easy and most people as well as guilds will stockpile a ton of it for wear and tear and future conflicts. There are some items that will be higher quality but not overpowering and those will be made by players and guilds who compete over resource spawns and or trade in order to obtain the resources necessary to mass produce these items.
Everything has wear and tear and breaks down, some can be repaired but only up to a certain point; trade and crafing professions will be very important.
If you get killed and looted then all you have to do is go up to a mob kill it, if the mob carries a bow, sword, armor and sheild this is what you get. There will be a ton of PVP so expect to be killed and looted, but don't worry guilds as well as individuals will be stockpiling items expect to have at least 5 or 6 sets of armor weapons in your bank. The problem here is not geting the items from NPC's, the problem is competing over resources with other guilds and players; if and when a war starts expect to die and loose items; if its a long drawn out war the armory may be depleted. The key here will be building a city and maintaining it under your control, the city itself is a hudge asset and buildings there will serve as the manufacturing base and the conversion of resources into armors and weapons.
There's no overpowering armor or weapons, the gear produced by players is more valuable then NPC's cause it has more bonuses but it wont effect the outcome by that much, player skill and tactics are much much more important.
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Gives a pretty coin? Or just for a trophy? Besides, i think crafted items will have more endurance/performance than a weapon that a monster have been using.
The speed of the mole and the power of steel is my weapon
If having a second account will give you a huge advantage, and let you pk without consequences, you better believe that a large percentage of the population will have second accounts.
It would be hillarious if they implemented logic that said player X appears to be handing over look to someone who by rights should be killing them, faction hit and second account has same problems as the first.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Am I the only one that sees the similarity in this to planetside? The way I see it, gear probably won't be much harder to attain than it was in PS, obviously it will be more than just walking up to an equipment terminal but probably not that much different. Stockpiling gear will probably be very easy and pain free.
In planetside the world fluctuated constantly any battle you won an hour ago would often be taken as soon as you left, very close respawns lead to long stale mates and it never meant much to die. Darkfall the respawns will not be close together, and I doubt many stalements beyond sieging will occur. But clearly in Darkfall gear means close to nothing. There will be plenty of opportunities for everyone to full loot everyone, so if you lose a set or two just pick up someone elses gear when you return to the battle. If you are dying instantly everytime you are returning to that battle, why are you returning?
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Gives a pretty coin? Or just for a trophy? Besides, i think crafted items will have more endurance/performance than a weapon that a monster have been using.
But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If you can get weapons and armor off of any mob, then these items are worthless. So why are you so desperate to loot worthless items off a someone?
Not every mob will have weapons and armor, A skeleton soldier will or a simmilar mob that carries them a bear for example wont have drops like that when you kill a bear you will ger fur and maybe bear claws. The items that drop of these NPC mobs is not useless, NPC mobs and their spawns as well as dungeons are also resources that your guild may have access to. Players can craft any items, the differance between NPC items and player crafter ones may be different bonuses, but that does not render NPC items useless since none of the items are level based and GODLY.
Everything from Spawns NPC's and what they carry depending on the mob is still a resource; players will be competing over these and they will trade them. Skill, strategy and tactics come into play here more so then Items do; what good is a sword if you don't know how to weild it. There are no non essential drops or filler items like you see in other games, if it drops off a mob or a player crafts it then it can be used; the question is can you master the tactics that come into play with weilding the weapon. Items are there and they are apart of the Game, they compliment the Game play and add a sense of immersion to it they don't DOMINATE IT.
But that loot will be more than enough to Quest and Craft and PvE and slowly but surely , there will be no value or challenge to kill peopel doing these types of activity. Especially when you may have to walk for an hour just on the off chance you may find them..
That is what cities and ships are - activities that have much bigger risk/reward levels. High level PvE encounters might also need top level equipment. It is actually good that you can engage in relatively low-risk activities while still doing PvP - and the level of risk can be adjusted by each person individually.
The thing with equipment is self-regulating - the wealthier can afford to risk more and lose more with it meaning relatively little, while the poor can just use junk equipment and even winning few fights can make them wealthier.
After certain time, the small difference in character power due to higher tier eq will outweight the price. Imagine running 30 minutes looking for fight and then getting barelly killed because using junk eq... look at EvE, where people fly in faction battleships with faction fit that are just a little more powerfull than the ordinary ones, only the cost being bilions instead of 50m (when substracting insurance cost).
you sound as if you have played this game for years. But in truth, nobody has played it. So you don't know how it will work. The only thing we have to go on is UO, since we played that game, and it had similar rules. And it was a failure and was gotten rid of.
So it was a total failure in UO, and Darkfall will do the same thing, and yet it will be a totall success this time? That makes no sense.
So keep dreaming you bizarre fantasises about how wonderful full looting will be. The truth will be much different.
[quote]Every single FFA PvP MMO in the MMO history has mutated into a more carebear rule set. The ones that didnt mutated just died.[/quote]
That's not true. Asheron's Call didn't die, and Darktide is the most populated server, which has FFA PvP and full looting.
I think good loot will exist in this game, it will just be difficult to hold on to. In AC, you drop the items with the highest value. In order to keep the items you use, you have to hunt for death items. This game is different because you will drop whatever you are wearing. So, you will need to keep backup equipment, and spend time getting more. While we don't know the details yet, expect very stat-based loot just as we are getting very stat-based character advancement.