Dungeons and Dragons Online

rohbshop · August 2004

whats wrong with some twitch in rpg combat? I guess these are the same people who love to craft in mmorpgs hitting the same button in the same robotic manner over and over again until you get to the point where everyone needs stuff from you so you can feel special

I thought AC1's combat was cool simply because you could dodge spells if your paying attention. Of course the bot'ers, macroers, and crafter-lovers, including everyone over 80 years old probably hates anything that may take some skill.

JustinJoseph · August 2004

"In a world full of heroes, there is no longer heroes. Because it's as such. In a world full of newtons & einsteins, no longer is their geniuses. Because being genius is the norm. In a world where everyone slays dragons, no longer is there heroes, because its the norm."

I don't think I've seen anyone put down that well in my life, this is going in my sig for sure!

----------------------------
Justin Joseph
-MMORPG.COM Co-Founder-
justinjoseph@mmorpg.com

Unknown · August 2004

Originally posted by Finwe

I played DAoC at...pretty much the first month of retail. It wasn't the lag that made me turn away, it was the level grind. And I was sick of it, it offered RvR, but so did that one server on EQ1. Which I played on...What was it called, Rallos zek? Or some crap like that, haven't played that in forever. It may of been more tweaked to the PvP aspect then EQ1, but I sensed alot of the same-o. And didn't feel more of the level grind.

   I will agree with you, there is still the same EQ-esqe level grind in DAoC. Though DAoC still leans more heavily towards PvP than EQ does. Even more than that 1 server in EQ. Because in DAoC the winning side actually gains something that helps them. The losing side actually loses something that hurts them.

Finwe said:

SWG...Need I say more about that hell game? Good example of an easy game. Max out in a month. If you die, shoot yourself with medicine and your back to normal. PvP in it, I just laughed it was so tedious. You die, go and fight. Die, fight. Keep on until your stats are too low. Then sit around for 5 minutes. And shoot yourself with stim's. Boom. All healed.

Xplororor said:

You are forgetting about the subject of what each games intentions are. DAoC has different intentions than EQ. Thus both games cannot be played with the same engame goal in mind. SWG also had different intentions than EQ, and every single other MMORPG.

1. SWG is NOT intended for powergamers. It is intended first for Star Wars fans. Next for gamers with 1 to 3 hours of free time each session to play. If you are a powergamer to not play SWG. If you are a powergamer and do play SWG, do not complain about how "easy" SWG is after you burn yourself out in 1 to 4 months of playing 8 to 16 hours a day, each session.

   Finwe said:

1. Even the Star Wars fans didn't even like it. It was EQ with saber's (which the dev lied about for the first 6 months.)

   Well, enough Star Wars fans DO like it enough that it has sold as much as EQ. SWG has between 300k to 400k accounts. (Yeah I know SONY is now claiming 500k accounts. I'm still investigating that.) SWG is not EQ with sabers. There is far, far, more to do in SWG than in EQ. There are over 30+ professions in SWG. And SWG has absolutly no templates. SWG also has a 95% player run economy. New players have a chance to make things that veteran players will want and pay them for. EQ is the opposite.

2. I'm a moderate powergamer, it took about 3 months to completely max out. I was TKM, CHM, and moderate doctor...Or no, wasn't doctor, that was a specialize profession, I was the base profession. Whatever it was called.

The word "powergamer" is in your description of yourself. Do not be afraid to say you are a powergamer. There is nothing wrong with being a powergamer. Guess what? During the first 6 months SWG was out, I was a die hard powergamer. I even had 2 accounts! I played 16 hours a day non-stop. I've checked out every profession except Squad Leader, Mayor, and Jedi if that can be considered a profession.

2. When was the last time you played SWG? How long did you even play SWG? On what server? When you die in SWG you cannot "shoot yourself with medicine" and go back into combat! LOL!

I played SWG of the first 3 months of retail. Then quit. I played on bloodfin. The "unofficial" PvP server.

   SWG right now is 100% different from what it was during its first 3 months of release. Even the uber-SWG haters posting on the SWG forums at this here site MMORPG.com admitted it when they re-checked it out. Many of them are still playing SWG after checking out how it currently is. It is still not a perfect game. BUT it definatly is playable enough to have fun it. Especially if one is not a powergamer in anyway, shape, or form.

Xplororor said:

3. If you die in PvP in SWG your stats keep going lower and lower. If you try to immediatly re-join a PvP battle, it will be even easier for you to die again and again. Better off not re-joining the battle and accept the fact you got owned in PvP and go take care of healing your stats. BTW nowhere in SWG can you "sit around for 5 mins, shoot yourself up with stims, and boom all healed." Nowhere in the entire game can anyone do this. It never was in the game ever. Go get your facts about SWG straight before ranting off about it.

Finwe said:

Yes, you can, it's those stims for stamina & health that doctors make that if you have high medical skill, and own a couple. You can heal yourself extremely quick. For mind just go to the cantina for 2 minutes. I remember being able to heal myself completely up within about 5 minutes. I'd just go to the cantina, listen to a musician while using the stims, and just go back into the fight.

It wasn't hard to heal at all. It may of been awhile ago when I played it, but that game was so half-assed & easy it was pathetic. Unless they removed the speed you can heal, I have my facts straight.

My latest response:

You claim you can fully reheal in 5 mins. Here goes:

You are in a PvP battle. Depending on where it takes place, if you die, it takes a few mins for you to re-clone. Then you have to go visit the hospital for a Master Doctor, who can take roughly 5 mins to heal all physical damage to your major HAM bars, and sub HAM bars. Or lower level player doctor to heal you, who will take 5 anywhere from 5 mins to 20 mins to fully reheal you. And getting to the hospital itself is not instant. It takes roughly 5 mins just to travel to the hospitial.

IF you have SOME doctor skills, you can heal yourself. BUT you still will NOT be able to heal yourself as fast as another player Master Doctor healing you. You can re-heal yourself on the spot taking 5 mins to 15 mins depending on how badly drained your stats are. And how many and how high up the Doctor skill tree the branches in the skill tree you have.

   Then you have to go to a cantina to get your mindpool healed. If you have some doctor skills you can heal your body while your mindpool is getting healed in the cantina. The time it takes for you to die + time it takes to clone + time it takes to go to the cantina is easily 5 mins right there. Then depending on the Level of the Dancer and/or Musician in the cantina decides how quickly your mindpool gets healed. If it is a Master Dancer and/or a Master Musician then it will take them roughly 5 mins to completly heal your entire mindpool. If they are not a master, it will take anywhere from 5 mins to 15 mins to completly heal your mind pool.

Also most Masters like getting tipped. You might be able to shortchange them once or twice. But they will remember you and later refuse to help heal you. AND a master Doctor, Master Musician, Master Dancer, will not be guaranteed to be around and/or available every time you die and go to the hospital and/or the Cantina. You are far more likely to see a medium level Doctor at the hospitial. And/or medium level Dancer and Mucisian at the cantina.

Avarage time it actually takes a player to get fully healed after dying in a PvP fight is:

- roughly 10 to 12 mins if they luck out - they make a straight beeline to the cantina and have some Doctor Skills, Meet up with a Master Dancer and/or Master Musician at the cantina.

- Roughly 12 to 15 mins if they have some doctor skills, make a beeline for the cantina, and meet up with a mid level or low level Dancer and/or Musician.

- Roughly 20 to 30 minutes if they have little to no Doctor skills. And must first visit a Hospitial, hoping they find a Master Doctor to heal them quickly. Or a mid level, or low level Doctor to heal them. Then go to the cantina and hope a Master Dancer and/or Master Musician is there. Or a mid level, or low level Dancer and/or Musician is there.

5 mins is not enough time to cover walking to a cantina, and letting a Master Dancer and/or Master Musician work on your mind pool while you use some Doctor skills to heal your body pool.

BTW PvP players who have little or no skills invested into the Doctor profession have better chances of succeeding at PvP since they are more combat oriented.

Not only unlikely. Near impossible. That would have to be one idiot of a navy seal to be allowed to be killed by a 9 year old. He'd practically have to be sleeping.

   Nope it happens in real life. There was a super-famous picture on the cover of the NY Times back when the USA invaded Mogadishu (sp). It showed a 12 yr old kid with a gun, firing it.

Also in sticking with my example, in Level Based games the high level player can stand still and allow the lower level player to take 1,000 swings and still not be hurt at all. It is like a Navy Seal, who is fully awake, on purpose letting a 12 yr old kid take as many shots at him and never getting hit.

Anyhow, with a gun, alot of people are put on a fairly even playing field. We're talking about a world usually set 800 years ago. You could get shot by an arrow without blocking with your shield. But you got an experienced swordsman against some little 16 year old kid with little skill, the kid unless by some meer streak of luck and the more experienced with plenty of bad luck.

If this was a grand theft auto setting, ya, a noob with a crappy pistol against some crimelord with a m16 it'd be possible. But not in a medieval setting sword against sword.

My example still holds. In EQ, DAoC, and somewhat in AO, in all games with levels, in all Level Based games, the high level player can on purpose stand still, never swing, and let a low level player swing at them 5,000 times and never get hit, never get hurt. They are automatically invincible because of their level.
Even in medieval times if an experienced, veteran, swordsman stood still, and allowed a 12yr old, or 16yr old, to take 5,000 swings at them, sooner or later they will get hurt by the inexperienced 12yr old, or 16 yr old. Sooner or later they would die. They are not automatically invincible.