My only problem is I didn't start with MMORPGs I started with regular RPG games. So I'm a graphic heavy kind of gal. I tired playing Dark Age of Camelot but I can't look past the graphics and that my be superfisal of me. But it doesn't matter because it's my money. I'm quitting WOW for Aion simply because I'm bored. I've played WOW for the last 3 years and I think I've had enough. I don't even really play it anymore. Just because I'm that bored. I really wait in bated breath for Aion to come out because it's refreshing and something new. No, I don't think I'll be going back to WOW but FFXIII might pull me in.
I hate this as well, but the people who do point out think like grind and wow clone, arent really the ones who care to do any research. They just want another game to bash so they can justify to themselves staying in WoW or whatever game they are.
I also hate it when fanbois of a particular game go onto another game's forums (most often WoW) touting X will kill Y (most often WoW) or im leaving Y for X, Y sucks. Seriously, its not going to help your game, and its only troll bait for people to start bashing the game you suposedly like in a public place full of potential (albeit slight) customers for your new game.
i think these "wow clone" people should take a step back and see which mmo's came out first and see how much their game is like THEM. Maybe we should start calling everything an EQ clone? or maybe a UO clone? maybe D&D clones?
"To me, AION is a pointless game... they give every player everything, then ask them to develope their character?
Where is the triumph..?
The funny thing is all these new games are focused around PvP and Clan vs Clan or RvR and glitzy features... in hopes of grabbing just a small percentage (%) of the WoW'tards trying to prove they aren't carebear and are really tugh kids by turning on Blizzard and seeking anything that perceived "hardcore".
And today, that means anything thatn slaps PvP or Siege on their website.
WoW kiddies are growing up and wanting to prove themselves... but cannot find a stomping ground, so they are eating up any game that comes along... and that just enough to make this piss poor game designers MILLIONS..!
Go play Dark Age of Camelot... all of you! You'll thank me and then 3 years from now, you understand simple and diverse is better than complex and balanced."
Aion is a lot more more DAoC than WoW. It's more of a progressed version of EQ and DAoC than WoW. WoW tried to give everybody everything with minimal effort. The way people are trying to compare Aion and WoW is not the ease to get things, but the "grind" (again a failed argument but there it is). Most of the basic things to get with AP isn't going to be easy (in terms of upper scale gear). WoW kiddies growing up? Yes I agree. ALOT of people have outgrown WoW like they outgrew EQ, they outgrew DAoC, they outgrew many games. Progression does that. WoW hit the markets when the gaming scene blossomed, or they helped make the gaming scene blossom... either way. Actually has a positive impact moreso than a negative one.
"Seems like Aion is gonna be infested with wow tards. The army of carebears and pro 1-2-3warlock playaz ready to take on Aion.
Viel Gluck!"
That's me! I was a 1-2-3 warlock. I also did very well. Except I didn't have 1-2-3 for my binds. I had T, G, Shift 1-0, alt 1-0 for all different things. And I didn't use a gaming keyboard either! Interesting how you pick one of the few classes that have more binds needed for pvp than most... but meh to each their own .
"I hate this as well, but the people who do point out think like grind and wow clone, arent really the ones who care to do any research. They just want another game to bash so they can justify to themselves staying in WoW or whatever game they are.
I also hate it when fanbois of a particular game go onto another game's forums (most often WoW) touting X will kill Y (most often WoW) or im leaving Y for X, Y sucks. Seriously, its not going to help your game, and its only troll bait for people to start bashing the game you suposedly like in a public place full of potential (albeit slight) customers for your new game."
I agree. I don't understand using "clone" for everything when those same people fight so hard to say they don't "grind". It's all jacked up. I also do not understand how Aion is a clone for anything. There's nothing I've seen with Aion that shows any sort of copying on any huge scale. Share the same elements? Of course. Many games share the same elements, it's why the same people play many different games! But copied? Aion is probably the farthest from "copying" anything. They didn't even use the same Crysis engine. They didn't use the sme storyline, they didn't use the same factions as anything else. It's not humans and dwarves and elves and monsters. Aion also CHANGED and introduced many different things. They progressed.
Yes I am a fan of Aion, but do I think I'm a fanboi? No. I enjoyed WoW when I played it, I still miss EQ, I load up my Guild Wars every now and then as well. I am a fanboi of mmos though. Love them. Absolutely.
IF anything, Aion is a "mmo clone" not a specific game clone.
I hate Left4Dead, it's such a grind fest just killing stuff. My solitaire game sucks, also a grind fest.
What do rational people expect of a MMORPG? You want to craft without gathering? Well, actually Aion allows this by providing repeatable quests at the trainers. You can skill up and then use items you find out in the world to craft useful stuff for yourself.
You can take away leveling, but then why not just go play Team Fortress 2? If you are going to have levels, then you have to level. Not really anyway around that so the question becomes, how much fun is it to level? The Beta of Aion I played a couple of weeks ago was massively fun. I consider doing quests playing the game, if you think doing quests is grinding then you aren't playing the right genre of game.
I just hope I don't waste my entire weekend playing with the character customization like I did previously. After seeing the screenshots of the guy that made his character look like Wolverine and another that looked like Michael Jackson I'll probably, once again, spend way too much time customizing my character, but at least I'll get that out of my system before release!
If you are participating in the last closed Beta tomorrow, then look for Madonna, that will be me!
Doing quests is still grinding. The only difference is is that it isn't necessarily a "bad" grind. But it's still repeating something to attain a goal, which is what grinding equates to in a mmo .
I don't think doing quests is grinding. Especially if the quests are actual quests. For some reason there is a prevalence of "go kill x of y and bring me their z" quests.
Doesn't have to be that way.grinding is doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yeah, grinding is doing the same thing over and over and over again. That's my point. "Grinding" incorporates many different things to meet a criteria to be called it. It's not a huge monster. It's a very subtle thing. If you need 25 essence to make a staff and only have 5, but your current goal is to make that staff (for a skill point or gear whatever), you are "grinding" out that 20 essence to make your item.
If you are lvl 18 but REALLY want lvl 21 for a new skill, some people choose to just race or "grind" that 2.X levels to get that new skill.
If you are doing a repeatable quest for either A)craft materials B)XP or C)Reputation, you are grinding it out to make that target goal.
There's been another thread that has gotten to over 15 pages long talking about this very thing. It's not something that needs an argument, or has any negative implication. It just is what it is .
So whether I think it is, or you think it isn't, doesn't really matter in the long run hehe. We could just as well be discussing whether the sky is blue or clear.
Perhaps developers should start differentiating between tasks and quests. One is small and can be mundane, other is long and more epic in feeling. Such a distinction is present in Aion's quest interface I believe, it's just that they are both named quests.
I've said it many times but I'll say it again all MMOs have grinds of one kind or another. The point is to have fun along the way. If you're not having fun then it's bad grind if you are having fun then it's good grind. Grind has become the standard (though that might change with games like GW2 and FFXIV.) Calling Aion a WoW clone is rediculous though. That's like calling an apple a banana clone.
I don't understand the need to distinct between the 2. Well, atleast to me a quest is a "job" that someone gives you and rewards you for it. A task kind of has a bit more .. no reward to it... like a "step" in an epic quest.
I think what happens is too many people play too many mmo/fps/rpg/whatever games and try to assume their terminology is better, or atleast their interpretation of it.
I know I'm guilty of it, but I'm assuming that is because I've played too many various games and you can only have so many words explain such overlapping ideals lol.
Take legions for instance.
It is a clan. Also a guild. But it's a legion.
An alliance in Aion is a raid. In other games when multiple guilds get together to form a raid the players refer to it as an "alliance" of "sister guilds" since they are friends and not really in competition.
It's all muddled.
Probably why I argue about grinding so much. I see people make extreme words for simple uses, and most of it negative. Like when someone wins a fight, and barely wins at that... it's "I R&ped you". Horrible. Not just "I won" or "I barely beat you".
I see "grind" in that same fashion. Grinding is just something that takes you off your main goal that involves repetitive actions to complete the "task" to attain your goal, even if it's a "quest" (see what I did there? =P).
Yeah, grinding is doing the same thing over and over and over again. That's my point. "Grinding" incorporates many different things to meet a criteria to be called it. It's not a huge monster. It's a very subtle thing. If you need 25 essence to make a staff and only have 5, but your current goal is to make that staff (for a skill point or gear whatever), you are "grinding" out that 20 essence to make your item. If you are lvl 18 but REALLY want lvl 21 for a new skill, some people choose to just race or "grind" that 2.X levels to get that new skill. If you are doing a repeatable quest for either A)craft materials B)XP or C)Reputation, you are grinding it out to make that target goal. There's been another thread that has gotten to over 15 pages long talking about this very thing. It's not something that needs an argument, or has any negative implication. It just is what it is . So whether I think it is, or you think it isn't, doesn't really matter in the long run hehe. We could just as well be discussing whether the sky is blue or clear.
/facepalm.... i can't believe this argument is still going on... in EVERY MMORPG you have to grind SOMETHING. be it skills, or exp, so in essence, ALL MMORPG'S are "grindfests" the grind is part of why i play these games, to get a sense that i accomplished or earned the end result, be it a better weapon, or another level with new skill or spells. If you do not like grinding then you should not play mmorpg's, let alone be subscribed to these forums.
I've said it many times but I'll say it again all MMOs have grinds of one kind or another. The point is to have fun along the way. If you're not having fun then it's bad grind if you are having fun then it's good grind. Grind has become the standard (though that might change with games like GW2 and FFXIV.) Calling Aion a WoW clone is rediculous though. That's like calling an apple a banana clone.
That makes no sense....a banana is a berry. An apple, is an apple!
Do you have the willpower to delete YOUR wow toons? XD
EQ clone...only the truly uninformed call ANYTHING a wow clone. NC soft sucks horribly, i dont see why you would put any faith in them to deliver anything BUT a P.O.S.
I got extremely pissed off at NCsoft with the tabula rasa bull crap. But I'm back one more time to see if Aion is gonna turn the tide and if PvP isn't that fun, I'll give it up.
thats rediculous, everyone knows apples are overpriced pc clones with lousy software selection!
Please don't start it again! :-)
it's becoming a standard practice among many people to state one game of "clone of X" (mostly WoW clone) in order to desperately prove themselves a know-it-all critic. I think they don't know the meaning of the word "CLONE". WoW isn't a truly unique RPG. it has some core RPG characteristics in it's hearts. so calling a MMO a WoW clone is as dumb as calling WoW a multiplayer online version of Dungeon and Dragon or Diablo clone (as it has questing system, NPCs, leveling, skills, professions etc.). each game shares some basic game style and have some completely unique game style, and in combination each game becomes unique. so rather tagging a game as a clone of X, people should try to find out the different gaming experience that game is offering.
A good programmer is the person who creates thousands of bugs while fixing hundreds!
It is a "WoW clone" and a grindfest: The very core playing style of the Aion assassin is extremely reminiscent of the WoW rogue; everything about them is isomorphic. The same can be said about mages and spiritmasters vs. warlocks. The biggest difference is the flying mechanic and the "combo" system, which is nothing more than slightly heavier skill restriction through skill chains instead of rage/energy and other mechanics.
The crafting system, while it permits easier leveling and the ability to actually level the skill with almost no resource gathering at early levels, is basically the same as well with merely a random chance added to fail; there are no skills you use additionally while crafting to change the outcome.
The grind, much like WoW's, does not begin until the later levels and is attributed to the lack of quests more than anything, atlhough WoW's grind manifests itself differently in the form of gear rather than levels.
If you absolutely hate every aspect of WoW, then you will not like Aion; if you do, then it is purely out of some kind of emotional gratification you get from bashing WoW, or because Aion has superior music and graphics (superb graphic engine).
All of that garbage having been said, it's a good game and the gameplay isn't dumbed down to the extent that WAR's was (unless you're a gladiator/templar/cleric).
Please, hate away.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
My only problem is I didn't start with MMORPGs I started with regular RPG games. So I'm a graphic heavy kind of gal. I tired playing Dark Age of Camelot but I can't look past the graphics and that my be superfisal of me. But it doesn't matter because it's my money. I'm quitting WOW for Aion simply because I'm bored. I've played WOW for the last 3 years and I think I've had enough. I don't even really play it anymore. Just because I'm that bored. I really wait in bated breath for Aion to come out because it's refreshing and something new. No, I don't think I'll be going back to WOW but FFXIII might pull me in.
I hate this as well, but the people who do point out think like grind and wow clone, arent really the ones who care to do any research. They just want another game to bash so they can justify to themselves staying in WoW or whatever game they are.
I also hate it when fanbois of a particular game go onto another game's forums (most often WoW) touting X will kill Y (most often WoW) or im leaving Y for X, Y sucks. Seriously, its not going to help your game, and its only troll bait for people to start bashing the game you suposedly like in a public place full of potential (albeit slight) customers for your new game.
i think these "wow clone" people should take a step back and see which mmo's came out first and see how much their game is like THEM. Maybe we should start calling everything an EQ clone? or maybe a UO clone? maybe D&D clones?
"To me, AION is a pointless game... they give every player everything, then ask them to develope their character?
Where is the triumph..?
The funny thing is all these new games are focused around PvP and Clan vs Clan or RvR and glitzy features... in hopes of grabbing just a small percentage (%) of the WoW'tards trying to prove they aren't carebear and are really tugh kids by turning on Blizzard and seeking anything that perceived "hardcore".
And today, that means anything thatn slaps PvP or Siege on their website.
WoW kiddies are growing up and wanting to prove themselves... but cannot find a stomping ground, so they are eating up any game that comes along... and that just enough to make this piss poor game designers MILLIONS..!
Go play Dark Age of Camelot... all of you! You'll thank me and then 3 years from now, you understand simple and diverse is better than complex and balanced."
Aion is a lot more more DAoC than WoW. It's more of a progressed version of EQ and DAoC than WoW. WoW tried to give everybody everything with minimal effort. The way people are trying to compare Aion and WoW is not the ease to get things, but the "grind" (again a failed argument but there it is). Most of the basic things to get with AP isn't going to be easy (in terms of upper scale gear). WoW kiddies growing up? Yes I agree. ALOT of people have outgrown WoW like they outgrew EQ, they outgrew DAoC, they outgrew many games. Progression does that. WoW hit the markets when the gaming scene blossomed, or they helped make the gaming scene blossom... either way. Actually has a positive impact moreso than a negative one.
"Seems like Aion is gonna be infested with wow tards. The army of carebears and pro 1-2-3warlock playaz ready to take on Aion.
Viel Gluck!"
That's me! I was a 1-2-3 warlock. I also did very well. Except I didn't have 1-2-3 for my binds. I had T, G, Shift 1-0, alt 1-0 for all different things. And I didn't use a gaming keyboard either! Interesting how you pick one of the few classes that have more binds needed for pvp than most... but meh to each their own
.
"I hate this as well, but the people who do point out think like grind and wow clone, arent really the ones who care to do any research. They just want another game to bash so they can justify to themselves staying in WoW or whatever game they are.
I also hate it when fanbois of a particular game go onto another game's forums (most often WoW) touting X will kill Y (most often WoW) or im leaving Y for X, Y sucks. Seriously, its not going to help your game, and its only troll bait for people to start bashing the game you suposedly like in a public place full of potential (albeit slight) customers for your new game."
I agree. I don't understand using "clone" for everything when those same people fight so hard to say they don't "grind". It's all jacked up. I also do not understand how Aion is a clone for anything. There's nothing I've seen with Aion that shows any sort of copying on any huge scale. Share the same elements? Of course. Many games share the same elements, it's why the same people play many different games! But copied? Aion is probably the farthest from "copying" anything. They didn't even use the same Crysis engine. They didn't use the sme storyline, they didn't use the same factions as anything else. It's not humans and dwarves and elves and monsters. Aion also CHANGED and introduced many different things. They progressed.
Yes I am a fan of Aion, but do I think I'm a fanboi? No. I enjoyed WoW when I played it, I still miss EQ, I load up my Guild Wars every now and then as well. I am a fanboi of mmos though. Love them. Absolutely.
IF anything, Aion is a "mmo clone" not a specific game clone.
I hate Left4Dead, it's such a grind fest just killing stuff. My solitaire game sucks, also a grind fest.
What do rational people expect of a MMORPG? You want to craft without gathering? Well, actually Aion allows this by providing repeatable quests at the trainers. You can skill up and then use items you find out in the world to craft useful stuff for yourself.
You can take away leveling, but then why not just go play Team Fortress 2? If you are going to have levels, then you have to level. Not really anyway around that so the question becomes, how much fun is it to level? The Beta of Aion I played a couple of weeks ago was massively fun. I consider doing quests playing the game, if you think doing quests is grinding then you aren't playing the right genre of game.
I just hope I don't waste my entire weekend playing with the character customization like I did previously. After seeing the screenshots of the guy that made his character look like Wolverine and another that looked like Michael Jackson I'll probably, once again, spend way too much time customizing my character, but at least I'll get that out of my system before release!
If you are participating in the last closed Beta tomorrow, then look for Madonna, that will be me!
Doing quests is still grinding. The only difference is is that it isn't necessarily a "bad" grind.
But it's still repeating something to attain a goal, which is what grinding equates to in a mmo
.
I don't think doing quests is grinding. Especially if the quests are actual quests. For some reason there is a prevalence of "go kill x of y and bring me their z" quests.
Doesn't have to be that way.grinding is doing the same thing over and over and over again.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yeah, grinding is doing the same thing over and over and over again. That's my point. "Grinding" incorporates many different things to meet a criteria to be called it. It's not a huge monster. It's a very subtle thing. If you need 25 essence to make a staff and only have 5, but your current goal is to make that staff (for a skill point or gear whatever), you are "grinding" out that 20 essence to make your item.
If you are lvl 18 but REALLY want lvl 21 for a new skill, some people choose to just race or "grind" that 2.X levels to get that new skill.
If you are doing a repeatable quest for either A)craft materials B)XP or C)Reputation, you are grinding it out to make that target goal.
There's been another thread that has gotten to over 15 pages long talking about this very thing. It's not something that needs an argument, or has any negative implication. It just is what it is
.
So whether I think it is, or you think it isn't, doesn't really matter in the long run hehe. We could just as well be discussing whether the sky is blue or clear.
Perhaps developers should start differentiating between tasks and quests. One is small and can be mundane, other is long and more epic in feeling. Such a distinction is present in Aion's quest interface I believe, it's just that they are both named quests.
I've said it many times but I'll say it again all MMOs have grinds of one kind or another. The point is to have fun along the way. If you're not having fun then it's bad grind if you are having fun then it's good grind. Grind has become the standard (though that might change with games like GW2 and FFXIV.) Calling Aion a WoW clone is rediculous though. That's like calling an apple a banana clone.
I don't understand the need to distinct between the 2. Well, atleast to me a quest is a "job" that someone gives you and rewards you for it. A task kind of has a bit more .. no reward to it... like a "step" in an epic quest.
I think what happens is too many people play too many mmo/fps/rpg/whatever games and try to assume their terminology is better, or atleast their interpretation of it.
I know I'm guilty of it, but I'm assuming that is because I've played too many various games and you can only have so many words explain such overlapping ideals lol.
Take legions for instance.
It is a clan. Also a guild. But it's a legion.
An alliance in Aion is a raid. In other games when multiple guilds get together to form a raid the players refer to it as an "alliance" of "sister guilds" since they are friends and not really in competition.
It's all muddled.
Probably why I argue about grinding so much. I see people make extreme words for simple uses, and most of it negative. Like when someone wins a fight, and barely wins at that... it's "I R&ped you". Horrible. Not just "I won" or "I barely beat you".
I see "grind" in that same fashion. Grinding is just something that takes you off your main goal that involves repetitive actions to complete the "task" to attain your goal, even if it's a "quest" (see what I did there? =P).
/facepalm.... i can't believe this argument is still going on... in EVERY MMORPG you have to grind SOMETHING. be it skills, or exp, so in essence, ALL MMORPG'S are "grindfests" the grind is part of why i play these games, to get a sense that i accomplished or earned the end result, be it a better weapon, or another level with new skill or spells. If you do not like grinding then you should not play mmorpg's, let alone be subscribed to these forums.
Yeah that's what I'm saying!
Whats wow never heard of it Aion`s awesome tho.
That makes no sense....a banana is a berry. An apple, is an apple!
Do you have the willpower to delete YOUR wow toons? XD
[Retired: WoW, RO, EvE, WaR, AoC, LoTR]
thats rediculous, everyone knows apples are overpriced pc clones with lousy software selection!
Do you have the willpower to delete YOUR wow toons? XD
[Retired: WoW, RO, EvE, WaR, AoC, LoTR]
hot dam an official twiggly facepalm response *screenshot for posterity*
I've been itching to use it. Figured this thread was good for the time being.
Do you have the willpower to delete YOUR wow toons? XD
[Retired: WoW, RO, EvE, WaR, AoC, LoTR]
I got extremely pissed off at NCsoft with the tabula rasa bull crap. But I'm back one more time to see if Aion is gonna turn the tide and if PvP isn't that fun, I'll give it up.
Please don't start it again! :-)
it's becoming a standard practice among many people to state one game of "clone of X" (mostly WoW clone) in order to desperately prove themselves a know-it-all critic. I think they don't know the meaning of the word "CLONE". WoW isn't a truly unique RPG. it has some core RPG characteristics in it's hearts. so calling a MMO a WoW clone is as dumb as calling WoW a multiplayer online version of Dungeon and Dragon or Diablo clone (as it has questing system, NPCs, leveling, skills, professions etc.). each game shares some basic game style and have some completely unique game style, and in combination each game becomes unique. so rather tagging a game as a clone of X, people should try to find out the different gaming experience that game is offering.
A good programmer is the person who creates thousands of bugs while fixing hundreds!
It is a "WoW clone" and a grindfest: The very core playing style of the Aion assassin is extremely reminiscent of the WoW rogue; everything about them is isomorphic. The same can be said about mages and spiritmasters vs. warlocks. The biggest difference is the flying mechanic and the "combo" system, which is nothing more than slightly heavier skill restriction through skill chains instead of rage/energy and other mechanics.
The crafting system, while it permits easier leveling and the ability to actually level the skill with almost no resource gathering at early levels, is basically the same as well with merely a random chance added to fail; there are no skills you use additionally while crafting to change the outcome.
The grind, much like WoW's, does not begin until the later levels and is attributed to the lack of quests more than anything, atlhough WoW's grind manifests itself differently in the form of gear rather than levels.
If you absolutely hate every aspect of WoW, then you will not like Aion; if you do, then it is purely out of some kind of emotional gratification you get from bashing WoW, or because Aion has superior music and graphics (superb graphic engine).
All of that garbage having been said, it's a good game and the gameplay isn't dumbed down to the extent that WAR's was (unless you're a gladiator/templar/cleric).
Please, hate away.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.