Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Did TBC ruin WOW ?
geetornsage
Member Posts: 40
It did. I'm positive that the game was ruined. First by wrecking the powerful incentive to raid for PVP gains. Second for the loss of relative parity in 1 v 1. Third and about the worse is arena...a horrible routine akin to torture that nobody but the most frenzied players enjoy.
You agree?
Comments
The game was already terrible.
Darkfall Travelogues!
It sounds like your only reason is PvP and then only because of Arenas.
So, your answer is No.
PS - raiders being allowed to dominate PvP was the worst thing about PvP in vanilla WoW. You may not like Arenas but tier 3 Rogues slaughtering everything in sight was way worse.
TBC was a blessing or the game would have died already a year ago.
Stupid thread for something that has been discussed a zillion times already.
TBC Wow = 8.5 / Old Wow = 7.5 (in context of todays standards).
I hope WotLK will be 9.0 tx to the incredible PvP action seen in Lake Winter in game videos and the new 10/25 men Raid options.
It fixed it for me.
I would not say "ruined", but there is definately a real disconnect between the "old" and "new" game.
It is like when you hit 58, you are in a totally different game and everything you did and everything you have from the pre-TBC period is totally useless and/or meaningless.
Of the thousands of items in the game, the only one I can think of that is still useful after 58 is the level 30 fishing pole.
There were many things that were 'wrong' with the old game that were fixed in BC. Now if you were in certain groups, you benefited and then lost that benefit
1. Too much content was being seen by too few people. The whole 'raid2play' mentality was greatly reduced in BC and is being eliminated in Wraith. Yes, if you were the cutting edge raider, you got epeen for seeing content that nobody else saw, but the vast majority of players were paying for content they were never seeing. Also the developers time was spent too much on that stuff. In Vanilla, updates were AQ, Nax etc...in BC, the updates were quest lines, dailies and 5 and 10 man content mostly. In other words, most of the developers time was spent on things that most players had to do.
2. The entire pvp system where you had to play ALL the time to get gear. You didn't even have to win, you just had to be logged in basically 24x7. They changed it to where everyone could get better gear by competing, and 'winners' could get better gear because of Arena ratings. This isn't perfect, but much better than the old ranking systems.
3. The amount of things to do at endgame has greatly increased for most players. Better rep 'grinds', heroics/badges, dailies etc all have made being at level cap much more enjoyable for the average player. Does anyone remember what endgame was like for a non-raider in Vanilla?
I think the new 10/25 man format, LW, and the new tabard/rep thing ( wearing a tabard in a dungeon grants you that rep no matter with dungeon you are in) will greatly increae the fun of being a lvl 80.
Only problem I see with TBC is that they should have gone back and revamped the old endgame dungeons to make them something that people wanted to do.
In an a way different from what you are stating...yes. I don't think that any particular function of the expansion ruined the game, I think that everything it brought to the table enhanced the game. I for one really enjoy Arena. I think it gives those who love PvP a real chance to shine where BG doesn't, due to the high dependecy on other people doing what they are suppoesd to do.
How I feel the expansion ruined WoW is two in part...for the way it screwed the veteran players by not offering them a true expansion to the game they had played for 2 years and by bringing in tons of new players, therefore making Blizzard more money and giving them more reason to be lazy.
Sadly, WOTLK seems to be about to do the exact same thing. See the wizards at Blizzard are geniuses. They fully understand the art of giving just enough to keep you (and me) coming back. BC wasn't a proper expansion for those of us that had been there since the beginning. We had been playing the same content, same characters...most of us having in upwards of 4-8 level 60's. We deserved something new. Not 10 more levels and 2 races, we needed more classes. So there would be something new for us to do. We needed different content in the current world of Azeroth so that we weren't doing the exact same starter quests for the 100th time. We deserved more customization, player housing, being able to carry someone else on your mount, a mentoring system... Those that are addicted to WoW might as well be addicted to meth. They are hooked. I have known people taking vacations from work, or hell, calling in sick from, planning their real social lives around game-play. I have done some of that myself. So we have done it all, seen it all...a lot of people that have played since BC have...if you are not one of us vets, can you imagine having played longer than you have?
We deserve more than what Blizzard is offering. I doubt we would have even gotten the new PvP zone and seige weapons if it hadn't been for Warhammer coming out and Blizzard seeing their first real threat. I just hope that something drastic happens that will open their eyes and show them that they have to appreciate us, we're the reason they get to brag on commercials how massive they are. Maybe it's us that need to open our eyes and stop subscribing...
Currently Playing: Aion
Trying Out:
Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A.
Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
I tend to agree with Horusra. Although I have to say for me the game died because of the rudeness of the community base. The gimmee, gimmee attitude of most players makes it hard for those of us who enjoy helping others for no reason other then to be a good community member.
I think if more players were helpful to others rising up in the game skill levels the old dungeons wouldn't be obsolete. I tried to return to WOW after leaving for over two years. Upon my return I found that all my great blue gear was now junk. That shouldn't have happened. I think the developers really screwed the players when they added TBC as far at that goes. The players should have been given some sort of upgrade on their old blues and purples. Maybe adding sockets to them or something. But it was a bit disheartening to me to come back and see that even level 61 green gear was a huge step up from my old uber blue and purple gear.
I think if more players would change their mindset out of gimmee, gimmee the game would thrive. However an mmo is only as good as it's player base imho. So with that said WOW is in a downward spiral due to player greed and rudeness.
No!
PS: It still amazes me the amount of people that claim to not like the game but are constanty hanging around it's forums to post to that effect, are they trying to convince themselves???
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Space goats, arena and outland... hated it all. Regardless, grinded all the way to BT but didn't really enjoy it. I miss vanilla WoW, or maybe that's just nostalgia talking, meh. Oh well, happy for all the fun I did have in WoW.
BT? SP? Both 25man raids included in content released after TBC.
BT? SP? Both 25man raids included in content released after TBC.
not to mention Zul'Aman?
Burning Crusade introduced a lot of content, and they patched in a crap ton more content after its offical "release." Infact there were more dungeons in BC than before it, Gruul, Mag, TK, Kara, BT, ZA, Hyjal, Sunwell, SSC.
thats more than Molten Core, Nax, BWL, ZG, and AQ.
More = Better, especially when they're better dungeons.
I tend to agree with Horusra. Although I have to say for me the game died because of the rudeness of the community base. The gimmee, gimmee attitude of most players makes it hard for those of us who enjoy helping others for no reason other then to be a good community member.
I think if more players were helpful to others rising up in the game skill levels the old dungeons wouldn't be obsolete. I tried to return to WOW after leaving for over two years. Upon my return I found that all my great blue gear was now junk. That shouldn't have happened. I think the developers really screwed the players when they added TBC as far at that goes. The players should have been given some sort of upgrade on their old blues and purples. Maybe adding sockets to them or something. But it was a bit disheartening to me to come back and see that even level 61 green gear was a huge step up from my old uber blue and purple gear.
I think if more players would change their mindset out of gimmee, gimmee the game would thrive. However an mmo is only as good as it's player base imho. So with that said WOW is in a downward spiral due to player greed and rudeness.
I totally agree with you. But I had a friend, just last night say, "A community is only as good as the game allows it to be." I think he's right. And since Blizzard is a gimme gimme (your money) company, it in turn attracts the same community.
Currently Playing: Aion
Trying Out:
Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A.
Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
So, you're upset at WoW because other players wouldnt give you free hand outs? Your sense of Entitlement is just as bad as other players greed.
I thought The Burning Crusade was incredible. But I don't look at the game from a PvP perspective anymore.
I quit right after (~2 months) TBC so I guess I have a say at this.
Let's see what TBC took away and brought new:
1. TBC killed the already suffering world PvP.
2. TBC killed the already suffering lore. (lol @ Drenai, lol @ trying to balance the factions by giving paladins to Horde and Shaman to Alliance... stupid, stupid, stupid)
3. It did not bring any new class.
4. It brought 1-2 useful new skills to existing classes, and 1-2 new useless/crap skills (lol @ mage invisibility) in total.
5. It brought 1 additional BG to 3 existing ones, no additional BG whatsoever after TBC.
6. It brought Faction Grinding. Yay! The most idiotic implementation/clone (I bet some other crap MMOs went that approach) ever seen! This was the final nail in the coffin for me.
7. Same type of quests, more instanced PvP, nothing new, breaking the "good" things about WoW.
So yeah, TBC was a disaster. Literally everyone in my guild quit the game max 3 months after TBC. But the kids become young adults, they buy the most "popular" MMO when they become 15 years old, so that's how WoW got bigger and bigger.
-----------------------------
Osbourne Cox: You are the guy from the gym.
Ted Treffon: I don't represent Hardbodies.
Osbourne Cox: I know very well what you represent. You represent the idiocy of today.
Ted Treffon: No, I don't represent that either.
Osbourne Cox: You are part of a league of morons. Oh, yes. You see you're one of the morons I've been fighting my whole life. But guess what. Today, I win.
It wasn't TBC that ruined the World of Warcraft experience. Blizzard was adjusting around the same time TBC was released, and instead of making a worthwhile expansion, they just added what the playerbase wanted: a lot of purps. Did it go downhill from there? Absolutely. Purples are easily obtained by sitting AFK in battlegrounds, running repetitive heroics and even doing dailies for badges; it's ridiculous.
The PvE aspect was expanded, and for people who loved raiding, there was still a ton of things to do. Those of us who preferred PvP were stuck with liking PvE, or finding another game to play. Sadly, at the time there was nothing else. I'm glad for WAR now.
In short, did TBC ruin the game's PvP aspect? Hell yes. Arenas? Pathetic. PvE? Not so much. The PvE events were mildly entertaining, and I kept playing a while after PvP was completely dead.
What's to come in the future? Siege? It's been done in other games before, and better. I don't think WoW can salvage its PvP aspect, but for the players that are in it for the long PvE haul, it'll provide a few minutes of something other than scripted events to repeat.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
"Everyone I know quit this game" Didn't realize you were such an athority.
Then you say all the kids grew up and bought their own game.
Well everyone in my guild is an adult, but thats just my guild, I'm sorry you had a horrible experiance playing with children, perhaps you still are one?
I like how you repeat all the well known problems of WoW as if they're brand new ideas. World PvP failed ZOMG!!?? Thats why they made Lake wintergrasp in the next expantion.
Don't be dumb, yes TBC did "only" add a few class spells and balanced the game.
Your suggesting they should have just kept it unbalanced? They are making a new BG for this expantion, how many battle grounds do you seriously want?
Faction grinding exsisted before TBC, maybe you didn't actually play then... or have you never heard of The ardent dawn, the timbermaw, goblin factions, the entire alliance / horde faction, the steamwheel cartel. ECT and so on and so forth.
It didn't bring a new class, thats a bad thing? Why bring in new stuff when the game was admitedly unbalanced.
Funny how someone who quit the game amonth or two after its expantion release feels qualitfied to comment on it when hes experianced a tiny fraction of it.
L A W L
OP :
There should be another option in your poll:
"I quit to play WARHAMMERZ (or Conan, or LotrO, or Tabula Rasa etc--).... and came back 10 days later to Wow in shame".
All those wanting a false beard and sun glasses to line up in the queues of Nov 13 th can contact me.
Only 3 Euro for each set and you'll be sure not one of MMORPG.COM members will recognize you.
So, you're upset at WoW because other players wouldnt give you free hand outs? Your sense of Entitlement is just as bad as other players greed.
LOL oh so not what I meant. I never asked for a hand out. What I mean is when in guilds (which if I wasn't trying to help run one I was in others) your guildmates are supposed to be there to support one another. If john doe needs to do a dungeon for his level of 55 and asks in guild chat if anyone is willing to help and gets no replies but dead silence there's a problem. However if level 70 guild mates would come on and say hey who wants to go do such and such in BC dungeon such and such they would all start answering I do I do. In other words, if it didn't benefit them they weren't interested what so ever. That's a bad community imho. I don't know how many players I would help do things for and when I would ask them if they could help my alt with a dungeon run or a hard quest I'd get excuses.
The last guild I was in was a very large guild with mostly level 70's yet they actively recruited lower levels to keep their numbers up. However when those lower level players would ask for some mentoring they were ignored. When I finally had enough of the gimmee gimmee attitude of the community in WOW I told my guild I was leaving..what was their reply..can I have all your gold and can you give our guild bank all the mats your crafter alts have etc. I laughed so hard, like I would give them the 15,000 gold I had worked all by myself to earn to buy my flying mount if I ever made it to level 70..that's what I'm talking about. I never needed a hand out in any game, I'm always one of the first to offer a hand up though, and after playing in WOW it changed my game play alot, I now tend to hold back with my help and time because I can't be sure I'll get the same in return.
1 PVP zone, 1 hero class, level cap to 80, same old gear grind, +10 man raids for 1 tier lower then max on gear sets. That my friends is what I call too little, and over 4 years? way too damn late. WoW only needs to add a good pvp system and get rid of the Gear grind that they created with TBC and it wouldve been a great game. Its too much of a Time Sync...you play for hours to get gear that becomes useless with the next expansion and most of the tradeskills are useless. No thanks.
its absolutly the worst thing happand to wow, and some futures pre tbc..
the worst things happand to wow imo is:
- Removal of the rank14 system, and introducing Arena
- The new stat --> Resilence
- Cross server Battlegrounds (destroyed PVP community on the server i whas on)
- Destorying AV to a 10min boredom, instead of the good old 2 days of FUN
Want to play: Lego Universe
1 PVP zone, 1 hero class, level cap to 80, same old gear grind, +10 man raids for 1 tier lower then max on gear sets. That my friends is what I call too little, and over 4 years? way too damn late. WoW only needs to add a good pvp system and get rid of the Gear grind that they created with TBC and it wouldve been a great game. Its too much of a Time Sync...you play for hours to get gear that becomes useless with the next expansion and most of the tradeskills are useless. No thanks.
If quantity is your biggest problem, then howmuch would be enough? Howmany new classes, howmany new dungeons, howmany new battlegrounds, howmany new things would be enough for you and "your" people?
I don't get the part about creating a gear grind in TBC, gear grind was there from the beginning and it is basicly the backbone of WoW, can that still count as an argument?
Creating a good PVP system? Yes, that would suit me to because I like PVP, but it would just make a great game better.
Tradeskills are usefull, for making money, and you get some epics in the end.
The game changed, and went into a different direction based on what the major part of the community had to say.
There were people who were complaining about how hard it was to get epics, and how their weren't so many pvp options, TBC addressed that.
People will always complain. People complain about Halaa and all the other pvp zones, but another poster made a point that a lot of the WoW pvper are more or less gankers rather than real pvpers, and the thought of fighting someone their lvl is OMG SCARY.
The game isn't ruined in my experience. I loved TBC when it came out, and even though I'm kind of burnt out on wow, I still like it.
As far as how much content there is in the game, how about looking at the game at launch, and looking at it now. Lots of changes, updates, and additions have been made. True, some remain untouched now, but the game is still big and getting bigger.
The next expac will change the game again. I think its retarded how people sit here and bitch about how their epics will be worthless when they also bitch about how the game as it is in its current state is getting stale.
I'm ready for something different. I would like a change.
Groovy.