The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.
"How can he be an NDA breaker when external beta has not started."
Anyone who says they are in beta are false. It`s still in internal beta and with friends and fam plus pro-testers.
I know that they have started hardware testing but no one has been invited externally as of yet.
response: yes they have
response: not that you or anyone else can prove.
The argument that external people aren't being invited was countered. Now it's been boiled down to "you have no proof that the devs are telling the truth." I think that once we get to this point we may as well call it /thread.
I will believe Darkfall is in beta when it can be confirmed. This whole thing has become a joke, at least if you have been following the game for many years. They have been in some form of "beta", and just about to start public testing since 2003! Lets take a look at Darkfall and "beta" over the years -
Claus: Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date.
(guess there was no "restart" or "do-over" in 2003, eh?)
GB: Will there be multiple phases to the public beta? Have you arrived at a date when you might begin such a beta?
Claus: Starting from Closed Beta in September, we will slowly add more and more testers. We will have an open beta shortly after, for stress testing.
Tasos: We feel that the Darkfall community deserves an update on the state of the game, this being the last day of Septemeber. We had said that we expect to be in beta this month and there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty about what we meant by that.
We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world. We're slightly behind schedule in some areas of development, ahead of schedule in others, and we're always working on new things, the latest being an optional third person perspective that can fit in with our gameplay design. Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long.
11-27-2003
Tasos: We've been quiet for a while, being in a stage of implementation with little to report. We thought it would be best to start by giving the community an overview with information of where we're at, and what we're doing now. We'll continue with frequent status updates as needed until Darkfall's release.
Tasos: Since our last update we've completed a lot of work and we're busy working on our latest Darkfall build which is on schedule and due to be out on February the 3d. This build is an important step towards community playtesting.
Darkfall is currently in the final stages of internal beta testing. This means that the game is being tested in-house in preparation for public playtesting. A beta registration form will become available on this website soon.
Darkfall is still in internal beta. Delays and development taking longer than anticipated is the norm in the gaming industry as we all know, even in companies and projects with virtually unlimited resources. In our case the time related problems were tied more with the development of the advanced technology and the tools behind the game and not so much with the game itself.
(Munka) I'm sure the biggest thing on the mind of the fans is when the beta is going to be held. Is the team nearing this stage or is there still a great deal to do before you can think about a beta?
Darkfall Team: We've been asked this question often and we know that this is on the mind of the fans, it's on our mind as well since there's nothing we would like more than have people playtesting the game.
We do have an internal milestone for the beta as the fans perceive it, and that's the state where the game can be playtested and fun could be had. We're nearing this stage. Other than that, we've been testing the game internally for quite some time now.
Tasos Flambouras: We're preparing for beta testing as we speak; you can apply on this page of our website. It's a huge job, and we want it done right. The start of the beta is affected by multiple variables, and not just development ones. The same goes for Darkfall's launch date. Once we have a date that we're reasonably sure of, we'll announce it immediately. The additional time taken to work on the game was a decision made in an effort to make Darkfall directly competitive with the largest MMOG titles out there. Nobody is going to feel they've stepped down by switching to Darkfall, or play Darkfall as an alternative to their main game.
They've kept their game fairly low on the PR radar until this year. "Too many MMOs are released before they're ready to go to market," said Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras. "We want the beta to be almost finished before we show it to the world."
When I asked how far along they were with their game, they seemed pretty confident that the engine was almost ready. "We're spending a lot of our efforts tuning the graphics and art assets right now," explained Flambournas.
Tasos: We're in the middle of an effort of maintaining beta preparations while continuing to develop the game. In regards to that, I understand that the main information you need is a date, and we're getting closer to locking a schedule in.
MMORPG.com: As Darkfall continues its development cycle when can we expect to see a Beta? Also do you have a target for production?
Tasos Flambouras: We've mentioned before that it's difficult to run a beta test while continuing development on the game, especially when all our human resources are in development. We are now at a stage where we can and we are preparing the beta test which will allow external beta testers in and this is now a high priority for us. We do have a target for production but realistically the target date will be tweaked during testing. We think it's better to hold off on an announcement until then.
MMORPG.com: What is in the near future for Darkfall? After launch are there plans for an expansion?
Tasos Flambouras: We're moving towards external testing in the near future. As for after launch, Darkfall follows a timeline and the design looks past the release of the game. We already have plans and guidelines for part of our first updates.
The beta development milestone was met early in December. Since then we've had a fully functional and stable beta build up on remote servers, which is being patched regularly.
Tasos: We've been throwing around the word beta quite a bit, and it's not to churn the waters, it's because it's what we're working on right now. An editorial on this site urged us to come out with a date. Well that's nice, and we will when we have one. We've specified that our internal target date is this summer and we can't get more specific yet, but we will when we're ready to make an announcement.
Tasos: If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met.
Overall, we have a near complete implementation of the game, speaking of the technology and our feature list. We're running the game through proper QA testing at the moment, and doing full optimizations to make sure everything will run smoothly even when demands on the game are high.
Tasos: Darkfall is feature complete and we're doing beta testing using professional testers as we've said before.
(HUH? Seems they have wanted players testing this game as early as possible...guess they changed their mind!)
Tasos: Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
Well, they have been lying for 6 years. Are they telling the truth now? Who knows. Do you know the story of the shepherd and the wolf? Ok.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
The rebuild from Razorwax to Aventurine can be found in these three links. The first is the first update where we have confirmation that Aventurine has taken over (by the sig in the forum mods post). The second describes what the build entails. The third is the completion of the build.
Judging by what we see in this video and what we see in the newer trailer, DF underwent a second rebuild following the clan beta signups. However, never before have they claimed to actually be in a form of beta that includes random community members.
To actually have outside people testing their product is to be done re-building the game.
I do not trust them blindly. I am aware that there is a possibility that they are lying. Possibilities abound. I am just saying that you can not say for certain that they are not telling the truth. Nowhere in the past have they lied. They may have made the decision to improve the game and thereby break the promise that the community perceived to have been made, but I can not see any place in which they actually lied.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
Have a nice one
Come on now Aragon, what do you mean "hopefully" the game is soon to be? You know the devs have said the game will be out within 2008. Further, you know Tasos has said this about the release date:
"So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall."
So you should know for sure that the game will release no later than December. Unless...you dont believe the devs?
You have countered none of my points, though you have tried. Of course, I use dev quotes, so to discredit me, you have to discredit them or try to change the meaning of their words. Good luck with that. I can agree though - the time for talk is just about over. Open beta is due in less than 2 weeks. Release in less than 3 months.
Those are not random delevoper quotes, they are official recent dev quotes with signed publishers and events like whats going on in athens greece on the 16th of this month to back up the statements.
You are all ignorent and just think of anything possible to be skepticle. in fact you guys go through alot of trouble to try and find reasons to be skeptical like bring up quotes from an entirely differnt game in the making from 2003. The game has been pushed back numerous times to modernize the graphics engine and also because new technology has given them access to putting features in the game that would of otherwise been scrapped. if you can put in features origionally intended rather then release a product your not happy with, wouldnt you choose the delay and better product?
Bringing up past quotes that were mostly "we intend to have" or "our goal is to reach" have little bearing on OFFICIAL news. the majority of past quotes were nothing but vauge statements that were blown up by others imaginations and hopes and not official features or promises. the only ones lying are the haters to themselves.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
Have a nice one
Come on now Aragon, what do you mean "hopefully" the game is soon to be? You know the devs have said the game will be out within 2008. Further, you know Tasos has said this about the release date:
"So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall."
So you should know for sure that the game will release no later than December. Unless...you dont believe the devs?
You have countered none of my points, though you have tried. Of course, I use dev quotes, so to discredit me, you have to discredit them or try to change the meaning of their words. Good luck with that. I can agree though - the time for talk is just about over. Open beta is due in less than 2 weeks. Release in less than 3 months.
There's been numerous of threads on wether Darkfall missed any beta dates before.
They havent missed one so far. The only company promise Aventurine delivered from late 2003 is the last one, the 2008 one. All others werent set dates. This is the only set date we seen before the 2008 end set date -
Intentions and assumings of beta dates isnt the same as a set beta date promise.
The only set beta date Aventurine ever promised is the end of 2008. All else have been hopes and assumptions. They choosed not to go through on any of the earlier attempts.
Darkfall have been updated over the years. They wanted a better Darkfall then the 2003 one. They wanted a better Darkfall then the 2005 one. A better then the 2007 one.
Im very glad they took that long time to produce this game. The chance they succeed with their intentions have increased by the years. Having hi dreams and expectations on the game you wanna play and develop isnt bad as i see it.
Like i said, you refuse to believe anything at all, thus its pointless to argure with you. Moving on.
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
Well every company has to start somewhere, at one time all of them were small independent devs.
Blizzard started off doing dodgy game ports and look at them now.
Some of you guys seem to have a real problem with small businesses. You can't expect them to be as professional as powerhouses like EA, they don't employ people to manage PR or spin information to the public.
So what if development has taken a lot longer than they expected? That's no reason to flame everything said regarding this game.
You should know very well that projects of all kinds often take much longer than expected and cost a lot more than anticipated, if you don't then try reading a newspaper once in while.
You haven't paid them any money for guaranteed delivery by a certain date so what right do you have to complain?
If they release the game and it's unplayable, severely bugged or does not contain what they have stated on the box then flame away.
Like i said, you refuse to believe anything at all, thus its pointless to argure with you. Moving on.
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
Like i said, you refuse to believe anything at all, thus its pointless to argure with you. Moving on.
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
dont know about that do we
No, we don't, that's true. But chances are that is what will happen.
Too me, it seems like their trying to make this game as perfect as possible. Isn't anyone else tired of huge patching during launch week? Isn't anyone else tired of games getting thrashed on www.mmorpg.com for not being ready? We'll i am.
Too me, it seems like their trying to make this game as perfect as possible. Isn't anyone else tired of huge patching during launch week? Isn't anyone else tired of games getting thrashed on www.mmorpg.com for not being ready? We'll i am.
I agree with you there. It amaze's me that people can complain about the quality of MMORPG's and then turn around and complain an MMORPG is taking so long.
Bottom line is which is it that you want? Quality or speed? If fast food resteraunts and 5 star resteraunts where the same price which would you eat at? A T Bone steak or a 99cent hamburger from McDonalds ( Keep in mind that 99cent hamburger is now the price of the T Bone) ?
Too me, it seems like their trying to make this game as perfect as possible. Isn't anyone else tired of huge patching during launch week? Isn't anyone else tired of games getting thrashed on www.mmorpg.com for not being ready? We'll i am.
Well said. Some people never seems to be satisfied,
@signs Those are not random delevoper quotes, they are official recent dev quotes with signed publishers and events like whats going on in athens greece on the 16th of this month to back up the statements. You are all ignorent and just think of anything possible to be skepticle. in fact you guys go through alot of trouble to try and find reasons to be skeptical like bring up quotes from an entirely differnt game in the making from 2003. The game has been pushed back numerous times to modernize the graphics engine and also because new technology has given them access to putting features in the game that would of otherwise been scrapped. if you can put in features origionally intended rather then release a product your not happy with, wouldnt you choose the delay and better product?
Bringing up past quotes that were mostly "we intend to have" or "our goal is to reach" have little bearing on OFFICIAL news. the majority of past quotes were nothing but vauge statements that were blown up by others imaginations and hopes and not official features or promises. the only ones lying are the haters to themselves.
The quotes that were brought up earlier are just as "official" as the ones you allude to. Just to make that clear. It's official Aventurine employees speaking about their game. Nothing "unofficial" about them.
Pushing a game back to have a better game is a good thing sometimes, it also depends however on how you do it. And there is no "we aim to" and "we hope" in many of Tasos statements that the game is nearly feature complete and has been for the past 5 years.
If they spent 5 years on polishing the game, superb, excellent and we shall see when it comes out. I have no qualms with DF, I don't hate it, but what I do hate is the obnoxious way the supporters put down any possible bad thing about the game as a) irrelevant or b) unfounded. It is much the same way as the obnoxious haters continue to claim the game is vapor-ware and whatnot, just the other side of the medal.
We are all ignorant? We only look for things to be skeptical? If I weren't this interested in the game, I would not bother to point out worries and possible problems with the game. I would ot bother to read through Tasos interviews and through all the developer quotes. Fact is, some people believe the man, some people don't believe everything. Who's to say who is right hm?
The only way we will find out is when the game releases and we can test it. No matter how recent your quotes, no matter how much you try to make quotes from the past be "unimportant", that is a fact. Supposedly we have a beta soon and a release this year. I'll keep DF to that promise and wait for the game to pass final judgement. But to put down every possible flaw or problem or discrepancy as irrelevant is just plain silly, just as silly as to point and yell Vaporware anytime a thread about DF pops up.
The only way we will find out is when the game releases and we can test it. No matter how recent your quotes, no matter how much you try to make quotes from the past be "unimportant", that is a fact. Supposedly we have a beta soon and a release this year. I'll keep DF to that promise and wait for the game to pass final judgement. But to put down every possible flaw or problem or discrepancy as irrelevant is just plain silly, just as silly as to point and yell Vaporware anytime a thread about DF pops up.
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
The only way we will find out is when the game releases and we can test it. No matter how recent your quotes, no matter how much you try to make quotes from the past be "unimportant", that is a fact. Supposedly we have a beta soon and a release this year. I'll keep DF to that promise and wait for the game to pass final judgement. But to put down every possible flaw or problem or discrepancy as irrelevant is just plain silly, just as silly as to point and yell Vaporware anytime a thread about DF pops up.
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
My apologies. You are right, I should have said that we are soon to have an "Open" Beta and/or that we already are in a Beta. My mistake.
Incidentally, no one has ever bothered to answer my question earlier i the thread. What exactly is (in this case) the difference between the Hardware-Tests and the Play-testing (which is currently still only being handled by Internal professionals)?
The only way we will find out is when the game releases and we can test it. No matter how recent your quotes, no matter how much you try to make quotes from the past be "unimportant", that is a fact. Supposedly we have a beta soon and a release this year. I'll keep DF to that promise and wait for the game to pass final judgement. But to put down every possible flaw or problem or discrepancy as irrelevant is just plain silly, just as silly as to point and yell Vaporware anytime a thread about DF pops up.
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
My apologies. You are right, I should have said that we are soon to have an "Open" Beta and/or that we already are in a Beta. My mistake.
Incidentally, no one has ever bothered to answer my question earlier i the thread. What exactly is (in this case) the difference between the Hardware-Tests and the Play-testing (which is currently still only being handled by Internal professionals)?
Guess they are testing the hardware on a wider range of selected players' computers, wider than the computers being used during the Play test.
Guess they are testing the hardware on a wider range of selected players' computers, wider than the computers being used during the Play test.
Yes, but how? In my understanding, Hardware-Testing is basically running the game and doing specific tasks designed to stress the hardware in certain areas to get feedback from the testers on performance and the like (in form of reports and logs), while play-testing is testing game-mechanics and the like. However, both are done "In-Game" as in, the game-client is actually running and you "play" for lack of a better word.
However from quotes and statements it seems like the external "hardware-Testers" do not get to -play- the game yet. So I'm confused. Do they just have a program that determines their system and how well it theoretically would run DF? Or do they actually have the client and run around in the world? Or what?
Comments
LOL Darkfall makes poltergeist phenomena look trivial.
The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense.
"How can he be an NDA breaker when external beta has not started."
Anyone who says they are in beta are false. It`s still in internal beta and with friends and fam plus pro-testers.
I know that they have started hardware testing but no one has been invited externally as of yet.
response: yes they have
response: not that you or anyone else can prove.
The argument that external people aren't being invited was countered. Now it's been boiled down to "you have no proof that the devs are telling the truth." I think that once we get to this point we may as well call it /thread.
I will believe Darkfall is in beta when it can be confirmed. This whole thing has become a joke, at least if you have been following the game for many years. They have been in some form of "beta", and just about to start public testing since 2003! Lets take a look at Darkfall and "beta" over the years -
08-03-2003
http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php
Claus: Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date.
(guess there was no "restart" or "do-over" in 2003, eh?)
GB: Will there be multiple phases to the public beta? Have you arrived at a date when you might begin such a beta?
Claus: Starting from Closed Beta in September, we will slowly add more and more testers. We will have an open beta shortly after, for stress testing.
9-30-2003
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=5542
Tasos: We feel that the Darkfall community deserves an update on the state of the game, this being the last day of Septemeber. We had said that we expect to be in beta this month and there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty about what we meant by that.
We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world. We're slightly behind schedule in some areas of development, ahead of schedule in others, and we're always working on new things, the latest being an optional third person perspective that can fit in with our gameplay design. Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long.
11-27-2003
Tasos: We've been quiet for a while, being in a stage of implementation with little to report. We thought it would be best to start by giving the community an overview with information of where we're at, and what we're doing now. We'll continue with frequent status updates as needed until Darkfall's release.
1-26-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=7202
Tasos: Since our last update we've completed a lot of work and we're busy working on our latest Darkfall build which is on schedule and due to be out on February the 3d. This build is an important step towards community playtesting.
4-6-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=8495
When is Beta?
Darkfall is currently in the final stages of internal beta testing. This means that the game is being tested in-house in preparation for public playtesting. A beta registration form will become available on this website soon.
7-9-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=9970
Darkfall is still in internal beta. Delays and development taking longer than anticipated is the norm in the gaming industry as we all know, even in companies and projects with virtually unlimited resources. In our case the time related problems were tied more with the development of the advanced technology and the tools behind the game and not so much with the game itself.
5-4-2005
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/86/gameID/4/
MMORPG.com:
(Munka) I'm sure the biggest thing on the mind of the fans is when the beta is going to be held. Is the team nearing this stage or is there still a great deal to do before you can think about a beta?
Darkfall Team: We've been asked this question often and we know that this is on the mind of the fans, it's on our mind as well since there's nothing we would like more than have people playtesting the game.
We do have an internal milestone for the beta as the fans perceive it, and that's the state where the game can be playtested and fun could be had. We're nearing this stage. Other than that, we've been testing the game internally for quite some time now.
11-28-2005
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
Tasos Flambouras: We're preparing for beta testing as we speak; you can apply on this page of our website. It's a huge job, and we want it done right. The start of the beta is affected by multiple variables, and not just development ones. The same goes for Darkfall's launch date. Once we have a date that we're reasonably sure of, we'll announce it immediately. The additional time taken to work on the game was a decision made in an effort to make Darkfall directly competitive with the largest MMOG titles out there. Nobody is going to feel they've stepped down by switching to Darkfall, or play Darkfall as an alternative to their main game.
8-26-2006
http://www.womengamers.com/articles/editorials/passion-behind-darkfall-online/1/
They've kept their game fairly low on the PR radar until this year. "Too many MMOs are released before they're ready to go to market," said Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras. "We want the beta to be almost finished before we show it to the world."
When I asked how far along they were with their game, they seemed pretty confident that the engine was almost ready. "We're spending a lot of our efforts tuning the graphics and art assets right now," explained Flambournas.
10-11-2006
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=26783
Tasos: We're in the middle of an effort of maintaining beta preparations while continuing to develop the game. In regards to that, I understand that the main information you need is a date, and we're getting closer to locking a schedule in.
11-30-2006
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/4/setView/features/loadFeature/733/InterviewwithTasosFlambouras.html
MMORPG.com: As Darkfall continues its development cycle when can we expect to see a Beta? Also do you have a target for production?
Tasos Flambouras: We've mentioned before that it's difficult to run a beta test while continuing development on the game, especially when all our human resources are in development. We are now at a stage where we can and we are preparing the beta test which will allow external beta testers in and this is now a high priority for us. We do have a target for production but realistically the target date will be tweaked during testing. We think it's better to hold off on an announcement until then.
MMORPG.com: What is in the near future for Darkfall? After launch are there plans for an expansion?
Tasos Flambouras: We're moving towards external testing in the near future. As for after launch, Darkfall follows a timeline and the design looks past the release of the game. We already have plans and guidelines for part of our first updates.
1-17-2007
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=30347
The beta development milestone was met early in December. Since then we've had a fully functional and stable beta build up on remote servers, which is being patched regularly.
5-31-2007
http://df.warcry.com/forums/read/270.42541
Tasos: We've been throwing around the word beta quite a bit, and it's not to churn the waters, it's because it's what we're working on right now. An editorial on this site urged us to come out with a date. Well that's nice, and we will when we have one. We've specified that our internal target date is this summer and we can't get more specific yet, but we will when we're ready to make an announcement.
9-28-2007
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2289-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-15-A-Visit-From-a-Fan
Tasos: If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met.
1-11-2008
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2796-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-21-Summary-Status
Overall, we have a near complete implementation of the game, speaking of the technology and our feature list. We're running the game through proper QA testing at the moment, and doing full optimizations to make sure everything will run smoothly even when demands on the game are high.
4-11-2008
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3570-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-25-Philosophy
Tasos: Darkfall is feature complete and we're doing beta testing using professional testers as we've said before.
(HUH? Seems they have wanted players testing this game as early as possible...guess they changed their mind!)
Tasos: Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall.
Wow I didn't know Tasos was already there in 2003. This guy should be a politician, he can really keep people's hope on nothing.
When will anyone realise that us fans will never get through to the haters on these forums? there really is no point to argueing with any of them because even tho we are right and have official quotes from the developers themselves, they dont believe the developers. its pure ignorance at its finest. when any other game goes into closed beta with an NDA and it is not broken, noone doubts the existence of it or doesnt belive them when they officially announce it. its pure hate for DF and nothing else. the next time the haters come into our threads dont even bother argueing with them and go along with it because youll only get frustrated by their blatent hate and ignorence.
Yes this game is vaporware and will never come out!! the devs do nothing but lie to all their fans and followers of 6+ years!! nothing they say is EVER true and they are just trying to hype thier game that they do absolutly no advertising for because they dont want it overhyped!!! wait...what?
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Well, they have been lying for 6 years. Are they telling the truth now? Who knows. Do you know the story of the shepherd and the wolf? Ok.
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
Have a nice one
@altairzq
Like i said, you refuse to believe anything at all, thus its pointless to argure with you. Moving on.
Fine, I will post some form of a counter argument then...
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=6472
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=7202
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=7653
The rebuild from Razorwax to Aventurine can be found in these three links. The first is the first update where we have confirmation that Aventurine has taken over (by the sig in the forum mods post). The second describes what the build entails. The third is the completion of the build.
http://files.darkfallonline.com/darkfallgameplay.mpg
Judging by what we see in this video and what we see in the newer trailer, DF underwent a second rebuild following the clan beta signups. However, never before have they claimed to actually be in a form of beta that includes random community members.
To actually have outside people testing their product is to be done re-building the game.
I do not trust them blindly. I am aware that there is a possibility that they are lying. Possibilities abound. I am just saying that you can not say for certain that they are not telling the truth. Nowhere in the past have they lied. They may have made the decision to improve the game and thereby break the promise that the community perceived to have been made, but I can not see any place in which they actually lied.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
Have a nice one
Come on now Aragon, what do you mean "hopefully" the game is soon to be? You know the devs have said the game will be out within 2008. Further, you know Tasos has said this about the release date:
"So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall."
So you should know for sure that the game will release no later than December. Unless...you dont believe the devs?
You have countered none of my points, though you have tried. Of course, I use dev quotes, so to discredit me, you have to discredit them or try to change the meaning of their words. Good luck with that. I can agree though - the time for talk is just about over. Open beta is due in less than 2 weeks. Release in less than 3 months.
@signs
Those are not random delevoper quotes, they are official recent dev quotes with signed publishers and events like whats going on in athens greece on the 16th of this month to back up the statements.
You are all ignorent and just think of anything possible to be skepticle. in fact you guys go through alot of trouble to try and find reasons to be skeptical like bring up quotes from an entirely differnt game in the making from 2003. The game has been pushed back numerous times to modernize the graphics engine and also because new technology has given them access to putting features in the game that would of otherwise been scrapped. if you can put in features origionally intended rather then release a product your not happy with, wouldnt you choose the delay and better product?
Bringing up past quotes that were mostly "we intend to have" or "our goal is to reach" have little bearing on OFFICIAL news. the majority of past quotes were nothing but vauge statements that were blown up by others imaginations and hopes and not official features or promises. the only ones lying are the haters to themselves.
The "haters" quote the Dev's, too you know. And the skeptics.
For example, how do you explain all the quotes in Theodgrim's post? Ranging from 2003 to 2008? Going by the quotes, the game has been nearly feature-complete for these past 5 years.
Not saying the game won't come out, but you'll have to do a bit better than to just toss random developer quotes at people to convince them by this point. Namely, the game will have to go into Open beta and people will have to play it. Only fail-safe proof there is in this mad world.
Isnt it nice then that beta started and the release of the game is hopefully soon to be.
To be honest, the time for digging into old statements is long over as i see it. I have countered everything Theodgrim's mentioned not once but maybe 10 times before.
Wont go through looking up all the quotes once more. Cant be bothered.
Release is hopefully before the end of 2008.
Then we will see the endproduct and have a discussion on if the game features is all in or it's a lagfeast or not. Graphics and on and on ......
Theodgrim's post smells alot of old Darkfall no-sayers replies. Too me - he is out of time.
Have a nice one
Come on now Aragon, what do you mean "hopefully" the game is soon to be? You know the devs have said the game will be out within 2008. Further, you know Tasos has said this about the release date:
"So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall."
So you should know for sure that the game will release no later than December. Unless...you dont believe the devs?
You have countered none of my points, though you have tried. Of course, I use dev quotes, so to discredit me, you have to discredit them or try to change the meaning of their words. Good luck with that. I can agree though - the time for talk is just about over. Open beta is due in less than 2 weeks. Release in less than 3 months.
There's been numerous of threads on wether Darkfall missed any beta dates before.
They havent missed one so far. The only company promise Aventurine delivered from late 2003 is the last one, the 2008 one. All others werent set dates. This is the only set date we seen before the 2008 end set date -
http://www.betawatcher.com/game.aspx?gameid=51 - this was Razorwax beta announcement, not Aventurines.
Prove me wrong on that.
Intentions and assumings of beta dates isnt the same as a set beta date promise.
The only set beta date Aventurine ever promised is the end of 2008. All else have been hopes and assumptions. They choosed not to go through on any of the earlier attempts.
Darkfall have been updated over the years. They wanted a better Darkfall then the 2003 one. They wanted a better Darkfall then the 2005 one. A better then the 2007 one.
Im very glad they took that long time to produce this game. The chance they succeed with their intentions have increased by the years. Having hi dreams and expectations on the game you wanna play and develop isnt bad as i see it.
Have a nice one.
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
Well every company has to start somewhere, at one time all of them were small independent devs.
Blizzard started off doing dodgy game ports and look at them now.
Some of you guys seem to have a real problem with small businesses. You can't expect them to be as professional as powerhouses like EA, they don't employ people to manage PR or spin information to the public.
So what if development has taken a lot longer than they expected? That's no reason to flame everything said regarding this game.
You should know very well that projects of all kinds often take much longer than expected and cost a lot more than anticipated, if you don't then try reading a newspaper once in while.
You haven't paid them any money for guaranteed delivery by a certain date so what right do you have to complain?
If they release the game and it's unplayable, severely bugged or does not contain what they have stated on the box then flame away.
Until then it's just small minded whinging.
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
dont know about that do we
Hmmm no wait, I will keep believing Tasos for the next 6 years.
These guys are learning how to develope an MMO. If they can produce a half assed game they will be really happy, they will have learned a lot and can think of working in a real company with some experience.
Oh... sorry I forgot Darkfall is going to be the best game ever. Just forget what I said.
dont know about that do we
No, we don't, that's true. But chances are that is what will happen.
Too me, it seems like their trying to make this game as perfect as possible. Isn't anyone else tired of huge patching during launch week? Isn't anyone else tired of games getting thrashed on www.mmorpg.com for not being ready? We'll i am.
I give no mercy
I agree with you there. It amaze's me that people can complain about the quality of MMORPG's and then turn around and complain an MMORPG is taking so long.
Bottom line is which is it that you want? Quality or speed? If fast food resteraunts and 5 star resteraunts where the same price which would you eat at? A T Bone steak or a 99cent hamburger from McDonalds ( Keep in mind that 99cent hamburger is now the price of the T Bone) ?
Well said. Some people never seems to be satisfied,
The quotes that were brought up earlier are just as "official" as the ones you allude to. Just to make that clear. It's official Aventurine employees speaking about their game. Nothing "unofficial" about them.
Pushing a game back to have a better game is a good thing sometimes, it also depends however on how you do it. And there is no "we aim to" and "we hope" in many of Tasos statements that the game is nearly feature complete and has been for the past 5 years.
If they spent 5 years on polishing the game, superb, excellent and we shall see when it comes out. I have no qualms with DF, I don't hate it, but what I do hate is the obnoxious way the supporters put down any possible bad thing about the game as a) irrelevant or b) unfounded. It is much the same way as the obnoxious haters continue to claim the game is vapor-ware and whatnot, just the other side of the medal.
We are all ignorant? We only look for things to be skeptical? If I weren't this interested in the game, I would not bother to point out worries and possible problems with the game. I would ot bother to read through Tasos interviews and through all the developer quotes. Fact is, some people believe the man, some people don't believe everything. Who's to say who is right hm?
The only way we will find out is when the game releases and we can test it. No matter how recent your quotes, no matter how much you try to make quotes from the past be "unimportant", that is a fact. Supposedly we have a beta soon and a release this year. I'll keep DF to that promise and wait for the game to pass final judgement. But to put down every possible flaw or problem or discrepancy as irrelevant is just plain silly, just as silly as to point and yell Vaporware anytime a thread about DF pops up.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
My apologies. You are right, I should have said that we are soon to have an "Open" Beta and/or that we already are in a Beta. My mistake.
Incidentally, no one has ever bothered to answer my question earlier i the thread. What exactly is (in this case) the difference between the Hardware-Tests and the Play-testing (which is currently still only being handled by Internal professionals)?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Note: I have no substantial problem with the rest of your post, hence the truncation.
According to this update, the first phase of the beta test has already begun. It is not "supposedly we have a beta soon." It is: allegedly beta has begun. If you had said this then your post would be unassailable.
My apologies. You are right, I should have said that we are soon to have an "Open" Beta and/or that we already are in a Beta. My mistake.
Incidentally, no one has ever bothered to answer my question earlier i the thread. What exactly is (in this case) the difference between the Hardware-Tests and the Play-testing (which is currently still only being handled by Internal professionals)?
Guess they are testing the hardware on a wider range of selected players' computers, wider than the computers being used during the Play test.
Yes, but how? In my understanding, Hardware-Testing is basically running the game and doing specific tasks designed to stress the hardware in certain areas to get feedback from the testers on performance and the like (in form of reports and logs), while play-testing is testing game-mechanics and the like. However, both are done "In-Game" as in, the game-client is actually running and you "play" for lack of a better word.
However from quotes and statements it seems like the external "hardware-Testers" do not get to -play- the game yet. So I'm confused. Do they just have a program that determines their system and how well it theoretically would run DF? Or do they actually have the client and run around in the world? Or what?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7