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Separation of church and state will this destroy America and everything for which it stands?
deviliscious
Member UncommonPosts: 4,359
Okay Many have been discussing the separation of church and stae but my question is how far are they going to take this? I mean look at our history everything that america stands for our national songs, and our fight hymns. If you remove religion entirely you remove everything The United staes was founded upon. examples:
"The Battle hymn of the republic"
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord:
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.
I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His day is marching on.
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my contemners, so with you my grace shall deal;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with his heel,
Since God is marching on."
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Since God is marching on.
He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat:
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.
In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,
While God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
While God is marching on.
He is coming like the glory of the morning on the wave,
He is Wisdom to the mighty, He is Succour to the brave,
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of Time His slave,
Our God is marching on.
(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.
Star Spangled Banner
O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail'd at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, thro' the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watch'd, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof thro' the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
On the shore dimly seen thro' the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected, now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner: O, long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
O thus be it ever when free-men shall stand
Between their lov'd home and the war's desolation;
Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Pow'r that hath made and preserv'd us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: ?In God is our trust!?
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
America the beautiful
O beautiful, for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea.
O beautiful, for pilgrim feet
Whose stern, impassioned stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America! God mend thine ev'ry flaw;
Confirm thy soul in self control, thy liberty in law!
O beautiful, for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America! May God thy gold refine,
'Til all success be nobleness, and ev'ry gain divine!
O beautiful, for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years,
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America! God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea!
The Pledge of Allegiance:
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now if we separate church and state completely we would lose everything this country was founded upon. Our belief in God and his protection has been there from the start, to remove this would be to remove everything this country stands for.
I am trying to figure out why there has been such an attack on Palin's religion, When from everything I have read in history that is the same religion that our country was founded upon. That is the battle hymn that we have sang going into war, and that is the same religion that is the basis for all things "American." Now I can understand that many disagree with alot of what Obama's pastor has said, because he has said much against America itself, but for attacking Palin for holding fast to her Christian religious beliefs isn't making a whole lot of sense to me because even our troops sing about "God's will be done" going into battle. SO our troops are allowed to believe they are doing Gods work but our VP isn't allowed to think so? It seems to me she isn;t the one taking things to extreme here, it would be the people persecuting her for it.
Comments
Because the left is self-hating and self-destructive and they wish to drag everyone else down with them.
The Pledge of Allegience you quoted was not the original. The original pledge was written by a socialist and read:
"I Pledge Allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Ironically the dude was a socialist as well.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Ironically the dude was a socialist as well.
Yep. I hear he was also a socialist.
Try being a non-xian american some time, and you'll realise why this is necessary.
The US is a melting pot of religions, cultures, races, etc. Why should ONE religion in particular hold more power in the government than any other?
Besides...let's look at this sensibly. Any religion is by definition, a system of beliefs. All well and good, until you try to mix that with a system of government. Suddenly you have a ruling body which passes laws and enforces rules not for the good of the people, but based on it's religious dogma.
PLUS, if the religion in question should happen to be one who's god has a flaming superiority complex, you run into a case of a government full of religous prejudice, where anyone who worships a different god is treated as a lower-class citizen, or denied their rights flat-out. (Don't even try to tell me it doesn't happen, 36 years of experience here.)
If we want to FIX this country, one of the things that NEEDS to happen is to get the damn church out of our government once and for all, and let LOGIC instead of belief guide us foreward.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
it would go over fine with everyone except the church, of course.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
it would go over fine with everyone except the church, of course.
As well as those who understand that it would cost billions of dollars of taxpayer money to create a new bill.
It amazes me when the left calls themselves tolerant, but they cannot tolerate Christianity.
I agree with you for the most part Whar, but logic is not always the answer. The logical solution for a problem can and often will ignore the less... concrete consequenses of that action. I will agree with not allowing faith itself to be a deciding factor in laws and the actions of our government, but religion is often associated with moral and ethical concepts that should always remain a factor, lest we embrace that which makes us more efficient and lose that which makes us human.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Christianity is not ONE religion. It is many religions, with very few central tenets. As organized religions go, it is the least organized religion in human history -- and that's a good thing.
As an American Jew, I know America is the most friendly nation to Jews in history, and I am thankful for it. This "Christian" country has welcomed my people and we have prospered here.
As a Taoist, something I picked up from my martial arts studies, I've never felt the pressure of the State against me.
I know my buddhist friends don't have many problems here.
I know a Zoroasterian family, and they do very well and love America for its freedom of religion.
Every Muslim I know feels the same way. Some are concerned, as am I, with the climate, but that has more to do with the war of Terror rather than Christianity. They revere Jesus and respect "People of the Book."
My pagan friends love this country, some enough to enlist in our military to fight against a Jihad which would destroy THEM first. My satanist friends know this is the country which game Anton Lavey the freedom to "create" the modern Satanic movement. he loved this country, and most Satanists are strong patriots as well. In fact Lt. Col. Michael Aquino, who was a bigwig PSYOPS, is the former leader of the Temple of Set. I don't think he feels very oppressed.
Don't know too any Mormon polygamists or practitioners of Aryan Christian Identity, but I imagine yes, they feel somewhat oppressed.
fishermage.blogspot.com
If we have logic without "moral backing" logic would deem it necessary to innilate those that wish to destroy us before they have a chance. Logic would tell us that we must kill their offspring or they will only seek revenge in the future for the deaths of their family. Logic would tell us that we must be supreme in this world in order to survive. That we must attack while they are weak or they will gain too much strength and we will lose more lives in order to stop them. Logic without regret and "good and evil" shows no remorse. This is something you must consider before removing religion entirely from the equation.
And let's not forget our two primary examples of what happens when a government tries to do away with religion entirely: the USSR and communistic China.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
it would go over fine with everyone except the church, of course.
As well as those who understand that it would cost billions of dollars of taxpayer money to create a new bill.
It amazes me when the left calls themselves tolerant, but they cannot tolerate Christianity.
Actually, historically, xtians are the intolerent ones, right? I mean, jews never burned people at the stake, satanists never led crusades, taoists never executed "heretics"...
Get the point?
Maybe what "the left" can't tolerate....is intolerance?
Plus....xtian religion + our government = hypocricy;
"liberty and justice for all....except for anyone who doesn't share our religion."
"all men are created equal....except for those heretics over there"
What would happen, do you think, if religion was no longer an issue, if the church was no longer a "fear factor" in government decision making?
We might actually make some progress.
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
Yup. Can I get an Amen.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Being religious does not automatically equate to being moral. Simply look at history and you can see how many unmoral things religious people have done.
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Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
Every single society in history that has failed to this has collapsed.
Things don't stay the same. Mutate and survive.
On the other hand that bit about government ruling out of a will to do what's best for the people and religion trying to rule out of dogma kind of misses the entire point of religion. I believe it is a tenet of Christianity to do what is right for society and not be ruled by Dogma. Jesus was quite explicit about this as I was taught.
Essentially religion and government both have their roles to play. In order for a society to function smoothly one must be subservient to the other. I don't think it's too mportant which one, as long as one is and they aren't tearing the country apart in a civil war for domination.
So are you suggesting we rewrite every American Anthem amd reprint our money and rewrite everythin g to make it more "religious tolerant"?
How well do you think this would go over? LOL
it would go over fine with everyone except the church, of course.
As well as those who understand that it would cost billions of dollars of taxpayer money to create a new bill.
It amazes me when the left calls themselves tolerant, but they cannot tolerate Christianity.
Actually, historically, xtians are the intolerent ones, right? I mean, jews never burned people at the stake, satanists never led crusades, taoists never executed "heretics"...
Get the point?
Maybe what "the left" can't tolerate....is intolerance?
Plus....xtian religion + our government = hypocricy;
"liberty and justice for all....except for anyone who doesn't share our religion."
"all men are created equal....except for those heretics over there"
What would happen, do you think, if religion was no longer an issue, if the church was no longer a "fear factor" in government decision making?
We might actually make some progress.
Actually, historically, ALL people can be intolerant when they get too much power. The trick is ti limit the authority of government so no one has power. Ask Palestinians how they feel about Jewish power. You also left out how many pagans crucified people. And nobody in power kills more people than athiests.
It's not the religion -- it's the POWER. Limited government and rule of law is the only way you prevent religious (or athiest) oppression. The bigger the government, the more oppression, regardless of faith.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I highly doubt that, especially with the left's blind support of Muslim demands.
Please explain the special treatment of Muslim cab drivers, footbaths in airports paid with taxpayer money or banning books like the Three Little Pigs from schools, just to name a few.
Being religious does not automatically equate to being moral. Simply look at history and you can see how many unmoral things religious people have done.
Being non-religious doesn't equate with being moral either. There are no successful ethical systems that are not religious based. The only one close is Randian Objectivism. Why is that?
fishermage.blogspot.com
Being non-religious doesn't equate with being moral either. There are no successful ethical systems that are not religious based. The only one close is Randian Objectivism. Why is that?
What do you consider to be successful? If you are looking at the actions of the entire population of its followers throughout history then Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism all fail the ethical system test.
---------------------------------------------
Killer 86%, Socializer 53%, Explorer 33%, Achiever 26%
Being religious does not automatically equate to being moral. Simply look at history and you can see how many unmoral things religious people have done.
You are correct it does not. In fact there are religions that specifically call for human sacrifice, and to kill all of those who do not believe in what you believe. In Fact I believe that religion can be a very dangerous tool used to control the masses. I belive that was it's primary purpose since it's creation. Now what I am saying here is that America was founded by Christians, and throughout history Americans fighting for this country have believed that it was "God's will" for this to happen.
This being the case, how can we now persecute our politicians for sharing these religious beliefs when that was what has been believed throughout the history of the United States? Now Moral backing comes into the equation by this because Morals are a result of what people considered to be "good and evil" and the social conditioning of what is right and what is wrong as deemed by different religions throughout history. Without religion how would they deem the murder of children as wrong? Logically it makes sense because they will grow up and seek revenge for the death of their family. "mercy" only exists due to religion, because it is illogical to show mercy to someone who will be a threat if you set them free.
They overthrew tyrannical and oppresive regimes based on the premise that rulers reigned by the divine right of god and replaced them with a peoples party based on the principles of human equality?
and replaced them with a peoples party based on the principles of human equality?
Somebody just returned from imagination land.
and replaced them with a peoples party based on the principles of human equality?
Somebody just returned from imagination land.
LOL! .. yea that one is pretty funny .. Equality .. this is a joke right?
Somebody else hasn't left at all.