I don't think they look terrible, but they look somewhat plastic-y like action figures, which seems out of place compared to the more realistic looking landscape
The avatar issue is a bit odd in LOTRO -- I'm surprised it's such a game breaker for many and suspect it's far worse on lower graphics settings (I wouldn't know for sure to be honest I play on ultra high direct x 9 even in the moors)
However the weakest avatar is the elves -- which ironically is my main character so I look at it a lot. The posture is just odd. I don't see the issue with the waste that is constantly mentioned with the man model though -- but again it could be the model you're looking at. You can change the body size and type with sliders in the character creation screen which may be why I've not noticed the issue. Hand size is a bit odd on both the taller avatars. Hobbits seem to be the best avatar and dwarves seem ok but depending on how you customize can look really dumpy and wobble a lot.
I have yet to see the whole *photo shopped in* issue demonstrated in a screen shot and I've yet to see the issue in game -- although I would venture to say that if you choose a pale skin tone some of the elven males specifically can look *white washed* against the landscape graphics -- if you let the skin tones go too dark though they look pretty unnatural on avatars other than man. The faces in LOTRO are unfortunately the weakest part of the game which is super unfortunate -- they actually look far better on the character creation screen than in game so that's a bit of a let down when you log in for the first time.
So with everything I just said -- the LOTRO avatar isn't perfect, needs work, but it's never effected my game play. Even when the animations were horrible (I used to reguarly cut off my head with my shield every time I saluted which was quite comical to me) it never seemed to effect my game play hehe.
However, after trying many games -- I just don't see avatars in other games being signigicantly better -- that Vanguard screen shot did absolutely nothing for the avatars in that game actually the following LOTRO screen shot looked better imho. So my only exception to critique about LOTRO"s avatars vs other games is that it's usually exagerated and excessive. AoC's avatars don't appeal to me at all -- that's strictly aesthetically -- I just wouldn't want a character to look like that. I can't criticize them really just not my cup of tea but then again I've never actually played the game only going by screenshots but believe it or not the screenshots of AoC are what convinced me not to try it oddly enough. Which is funny because so many people rave about the graphics that I find pretty average and boring (based on screen shots)
I've yet to see an avatar I"m 100 percent happy with -- must be the hardest part to get right in graphical devlopment I suppose. Probably my favorite avatars at the moment are from WAR -- if I weren't happy with playing LOTRO I'd probably try WAR based on how it looks but I"m more of a PvE person than a PvP person.
I can't find much to criticize with the textures but allot of the animations just plain suck. Seriously, the walking animation, when they did the motion capture - just how big was the stick they crammed up the poor guys butt to get that stilted gate? Just plain horrible.
I don't think they look terrible, but they look somewhat plastic-y like action figures, which seems out of place compared to the more realistic looking landscape
I know what you mean. They do have that look when the light hits them just right. Still, VG has some pretty amazing graphics, and the only MMO I've seen better avatars on so far is AoC.
The LOTRO characters look pretty darned good, but to be honest, I hate the armor. I don't like the style or the colors.
My 49 captain in front of the Prancing Pony. Looks good to me!
This is a perfect example of how retarded the avatars look. You honestly see nothing wrong with his SKIN TIGHT body suit? Seriously... how can you NOT see this? Absolutely no depth... even the shadows under his mini-skirt... doesn't look like a shadow, it looks like he pissed himself. I couldn't agree more, the males look like cavemen ballerinas.
Maybe Turbine should add 10 foot swords and 12 foot wide shoulder pads. Then make all the character grotesquely out of proportion to the point of being cartoony. Then they could re-skin all the characters with flashy colors so they look like a bunch of clowns on steroids just the way Tolkien would have wanted it.
Animation coding isn't difficult when you have competent professionals developing them. Turbines animations look like college student's work.
My 49 captain in front of the Prancing Pony. Looks good to me!
Well, the skin is one of the better but the armour really doesn't look realistic, it seems like it is one of those fake armour from a 50s movies, you know when they used cloth instead of real metal.
Still he doesn't really fit into the background as good as characters in Wow and Aoc.
No, the game do need a revamp of the character models, animations and cloths. I am pretty sure it have lost quite a few players on it, to some it isn't a big deal but to others it matters a lot.
It is some work but it would be well worth it. The engine is quite good so the game could only win by doing so. The backgrounds are a litle bit under AoC but the fog and lighting are very good in Dx 10. With a litle work the game would really looks awesome.
Game play is the main thing. All the looks in the world won't make a fun game. Sure the character models could be better and no matter the mmo there will always be those that have something against them. For me though anything they can do to reduce the the load on my system so I can have decent gameplay is worth it. After a few minutes of pvp I can't even remember what the graphics looked like.
Well, not to get new players. Many looks at a game and if they think it's ugly they will not really see the great gameplay.
While it is a lot of work to fix the avatars I am sure that it would help bring a lot of new players to the game.
Also, having a game look good on high setting shouldnt make the game lagg on low. If your'e having problems in LOTRO it might be time to buy a new GFX card, it run well after launch on my old 7900 card and it is at least 4 years old today.
I work in real life with about 14 fellow gamers. We all like to play the same games online. There is nothing better than playing an MMO with lot's of real life friends. I am the oldest gamer of us all and have played many of the old school mmo's in the past 10-12 years or so, so I have seen many styles of mmo characters so LotRO toons are acceptable to me even though there is something weird and wrong with them (i can't quite put my finger on it). Anyways I tried to get my friends to play LotRo with me (several of them are hard core Lord of the Rings fans, they can describe Middle Earth as if they have actually been there as well as identify almost any character from any of the books/movies). Every single one of them could not play the game for more than a day because of the horrible looks of the player character models. They all agree that the models are the worst looking characters they have ever seen in a computer game. Not a single one of my 14 or so friends could handle looking at the toons in LotRO so I finally quit the game after a month because none of them would play the game with me. They were so mad because all thier life they have dreamed of an MMO that would allow you to live in Middle Earth. It is sad really that even die-hard Tolkien fans can not enjoy the game because of the lousy character models. Turbine would have had all of them as life long subscribers had they cared to make decent looking characters. How many other Tolkien fans have Turbine lost out on because of this I wonder *Cry* !
I work in real life with about 14 fellow gamers. We all like to play the same games online. There is nothing better than playing an MMO with lot's of real life friends. I am the oldest gamer of us all and have played many of the old school mmo's in the past 10-12 years or so, so I have seen many styles of mmo characters so LotRO toons are acceptable to me even though there is something weird and wrong with them (i can't quite put my finger on it). Anyways I tried to get my friends to play LotRo with me (several of them are hard core Lord of the Rings fans, they can describe Middle Earth as if they have actually been there as well as identify almost any character from any of the books/movies). Every single one of them could not play the game for more than a day because of the horrible looks of the player character models. They all agree that the models are the worst looking characters they have ever seen in a computer game. Not a single one of my 14 or so friends could handle looking at the toons in LotRO so I finally quit the game after a month because none of them would play the game with me. They were so mad because all thier life they have dreamed of an MMO that would allow you to live in Middle Earth. It is sad really that even die-hard Tolkien fans can not enjoy the game because of the lousy character models. Turbine would have had all of them as life long subscribers had they cared to make decent looking characters. How many other Tolkien fans have Turbine lost out on because of this I wonder *Cry* !
Yeah, that was what I thought. Is there anyone who heard anything from Turbine on the matter? Maybe we should really make a petition about it, Im sure Turbine would earn a lot more cash than it costs if they fixed it.
I really don't understand what's all the fuzz about. The characters looking fine to me?? why are people flaming about this??? It really looks okay!
First of all we are not flaming. I think people are just stating their preference. And though they look fine to you they don't look fine to me. That picture above is just too flamboyant and mishmashed for my taste. There is nothing inspiring about the armor or clothing in this game. Not to say that all of it is bad, just not amazing or "great".
For example, I showed some non-gamer friends (as most of my friends don't play video games) the LOTRO world and they though all the characters looked bad as compared to other games I've had.
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Originally posted by Sovrath First of all we are not flaming. I think people are just stating their preference. And though they look fine to you they don't look fine to me. That picture above is just too flamboyant and mishmashed for my taste. There is nothing inspiring about the armor or clothing in this game. Not to say that all of it is bad, just not amazing or "great". For example, I showed some non-gamer friends (as most of my friends don't play video games) the LOTRO world and they though all the characters looked bad as compared to other games I've had.
Yeah, I never understood why people call constructive ideas flaming... We just believe the game will get more players if they revamp some stuff. Flaming would be if we said we hated the game but we don't.
There is something that needs to be fixed in all game, and in LOTROs case it is the avatars and armours. I havnt really noticed any flamers at all here, the discussion is far more civilised than it is in many other places like in the DF, AoC, Wow or WAR forums.
LOL! One thing I've found in the mmo world is that it's populated with the loudest whiners in any hobby. That being said, I think the armor and animation is fine...so I'm moving on from this thread as it's turning into a broken record.
That might be true but indicating that one doesn't like something has nothign to do with whining.
Whining means to complain in a childish manner.
Quite frankly I think this thread had been very mature until your point of taking your toys and going home.
I'm glad you like the LOTRO avatars. I think it's acceptable for people not to like them. People don't like Jasckson Pollack or later klimt and that doesn't make them whiners to say so.
Are the avatars broken? No. They are just in an art style that a group of people don't like. this has been going on since Beta so it's obvious people have not changed their minds.
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...Anyways I tried to get my friends to play LotRo with me (several of them are hard core Lord of the Rings fans, they can describe Middle Earth as if they have actually been there as well as identify almost any character from any of the books/movies). Every single one of them could not play the game for more than a day because of the horrible looks of the player character models. They all agree that the models are the worst looking characters they have ever seen in a computer game. Not a single one of my 14 or so friends could handle looking at the toons in LotRO so I finally quit the game after a month because none of them would play the game with me. They were so mad because all thier life they have dreamed of an MMO that would allow you to live in Middle Earth. It is sad really that even die-hard Tolkien fans can not enjoy the game because of the lousy character models. Turbine would have had all of them as life long subscribers had they cared to make decent looking characters. How many other Tolkien fans have Turbine lost out on because of this I wonder *Cry* !
This is exacly the point and I can say I agree with your friends.
The main issue is not the textures, shaders and animation, it is the absolute non Tolkien/Lord of the rings looks in all playable characters.
I'm glad you like the LOTRO avatars. I think it's acceptable for people not to like them. People don't like Jasckson Pollack or later klimt and that doesn't make them whiners to say so.
I agree with your point Sovrath, but I dont think it is right to include Klimt here, usually people doesnt like expressionism and abstractic expressionism because most people thinks art is only "decorative/portrait of something obvious" and doesnt has a concept and ideas behind the aestheticall expression.
There is no such thing among characters in MMO or Lotro, sorry, even when I agree with your point about Lotro, I think you made a mistake using these artists as example, even with the fact I belive the art of Klimt and Schiele is more expressive and important than Pollack´s art... sure, you may disagree about my opinion related to these artists, but I just want to point that it is not a fair comparition between people that doesnt understand expressionism and people that cant accept Lotro´s characters.
I find that the movement and animations of the game is very good IMO. Clothing and armour at low levels are a bit ugly. But that improves a lot with apperance clothing/armour.
I could wish for more options and diversity in character creation when it comes to face and body.
But all in all I think its a lot better than most other mmo's ive tried. The best one yet when it comes to character creation was SWG. That was awsome imo.
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I'm glad you like the LOTRO avatars. I think it's acceptable for people not to like them. People don't like Jasckson Pollack or later klimt and that doesn't make them whiners to say so.
I agree with your point Sovrath, but I dont think it is right to include Klimt here, usually people doesnt like expressionism and abstractic expressionism because most people thinks art is only "decorative/portrait of something obvious" and doesnt has a concept and ideas behind the aestheticall expression.
There is no such thing among characters in MMO or Lotro, sorry, even when I agree with your point about Lotro, I think you made a mistake using these artists as example, even with the fact I belive the art of Klimt and Schiele is more expressive and important than Pollack´s art... sure, you may disagree about my opinion related to these artists, but I just want to point that it is not a fair comparition between people that doesnt understand expressionism and people that cant accept Lotro´s characters.
...
Actually it's a perfectly apt comparison. especially when you look at klimt's early work as compared to his later work. There is obviously a difference. People who prefer a more classical art style WOULD like his early work.
Having said that, whether or not people like these works or not, it's all about what they consider good art or pleasing. Just like whether or not people like how the rendering of the LOTRO avatars is dependent on their taste.
Sure it might be a somewhat extreme comparison as you wouldn't find such a wide range in styles comparing Pollack to say a Rembrandt or a Vermeer, there is still a wide enough gap that someone can look at the avatars of EQ II or WoW or LOTRO or Lineage 2 or Conan and realize that there are so many ways to make the representation.
LOTRO went for a realistic style which I highly applaud. However I feel a game like Conan was better able to capture what actually fit in the world as opposed to LOTRO which didn't go far enough.
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Comments
I don't think they look terrible, but they look somewhat plastic-y like action figures, which seems out of place compared to the more realistic looking landscape
Here's a pic of my character
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
The avatar issue is a bit odd in LOTRO -- I'm surprised it's such a game breaker for many and suspect it's far worse on lower graphics settings (I wouldn't know for sure to be honest I play on ultra high direct x 9 even in the moors)
However the weakest avatar is the elves -- which ironically is my main character so I look at it a lot. The posture is just odd. I don't see the issue with the waste that is constantly mentioned with the man model though -- but again it could be the model you're looking at. You can change the body size and type with sliders in the character creation screen which may be why I've not noticed the issue. Hand size is a bit odd on both the taller avatars. Hobbits seem to be the best avatar and dwarves seem ok but depending on how you customize can look really dumpy and wobble a lot.
I have yet to see the whole *photo shopped in* issue demonstrated in a screen shot and I've yet to see the issue in game -- although I would venture to say that if you choose a pale skin tone some of the elven males specifically can look *white washed* against the landscape graphics -- if you let the skin tones go too dark though they look pretty unnatural on avatars other than man. The faces in LOTRO are unfortunately the weakest part of the game which is super unfortunate -- they actually look far better on the character creation screen than in game so that's a bit of a let down when you log in for the first time.
So with everything I just said -- the LOTRO avatar isn't perfect, needs work, but it's never effected my game play. Even when the animations were horrible (I used to reguarly cut off my head with my shield every time I saluted which was quite comical to me) it never seemed to effect my game play hehe.
However, after trying many games -- I just don't see avatars in other games being signigicantly better -- that Vanguard screen shot did absolutely nothing for the avatars in that game actually the following LOTRO screen shot looked better imho. So my only exception to critique about LOTRO"s avatars vs other games is that it's usually exagerated and excessive. AoC's avatars don't appeal to me at all -- that's strictly aesthetically -- I just wouldn't want a character to look like that. I can't criticize them really just not my cup of tea but then again I've never actually played the game only going by screenshots but believe it or not the screenshots of AoC are what convinced me not to try it oddly enough. Which is funny because so many people rave about the graphics that I find pretty average and boring (based on screen shots)
I've yet to see an avatar I"m 100 percent happy with -- must be the hardest part to get right in graphical devlopment I suppose. Probably my favorite avatars at the moment are from WAR -- if I weren't happy with playing LOTRO I'd probably try WAR based on how it looks but I"m more of a PvE person than a PvP person.
You can discuss if you like the art style of AoC chars but they do really fit in the background.
I can't find much to criticize with the textures but allot of the animations just plain suck. Seriously, the walking animation, when they did the motion capture - just how big was the stick they crammed up the poor guys butt to get that stilted gate? Just plain horrible.
My 49 captain in front of the Prancing Pony. Looks good to me!
I know what you mean. They do have that look when the light hits them just right. Still, VG has some pretty amazing graphics, and the only MMO I've seen better avatars on so far is AoC.
The LOTRO characters look pretty darned good, but to be honest, I hate the armor. I don't like the style or the colors.
This is a perfect example of how retarded the avatars look. You honestly see nothing wrong with his SKIN TIGHT body suit? Seriously... how can you NOT see this? Absolutely no depth... even the shadows under his mini-skirt... doesn't look like a shadow, it looks like he pissed himself. I couldn't agree more, the males look like cavemen ballerinas.
ugh...
Those shoulder armors would pierce your throat if you raise your hands
Until your character moves and looks like a gimp.
-----------------------
...I'm in your panties
Animation coding isn't difficult when you have competent professionals developing them. Turbines animations look like college student's work.
-----------------------
...I'm in your panties
They just took them from Asheron's Call 2.
They look basically the same..
[--pink cat stalking me again--]
Well, the skin is one of the better but the armour really doesn't look realistic, it seems like it is one of those fake armour from a 50s movies, you know when they used cloth instead of real metal.
Still he doesn't really fit into the background as good as characters in Wow and Aoc.
No, the game do need a revamp of the character models, animations and cloths. I am pretty sure it have lost quite a few players on it, to some it isn't a big deal but to others it matters a lot.
It is some work but it would be well worth it. The engine is quite good so the game could only win by doing so. The backgrounds are a litle bit under AoC but the fog and lighting are very good in Dx 10. With a litle work the game would really looks awesome.
Well, not to get new players. Many looks at a game and if they think it's ugly they will not really see the great gameplay.
While it is a lot of work to fix the avatars I am sure that it would help bring a lot of new players to the game.
Also, having a game look good on high setting shouldnt make the game lagg on low. If your'e having problems in LOTRO it might be time to buy a new GFX card, it run well after launch on my old 7900 card and it is at least 4 years old today.
I work in real life with about 14 fellow gamers. We all like to play the same games online. There is nothing better than playing an MMO with lot's of real life friends. I am the oldest gamer of us all and have played many of the old school mmo's in the past 10-12 years or so, so I have seen many styles of mmo characters so LotRO toons are acceptable to me even though there is something weird and wrong with them (i can't quite put my finger on it). Anyways I tried to get my friends to play LotRo with me (several of them are hard core Lord of the Rings fans, they can describe Middle Earth as if they have actually been there as well as identify almost any character from any of the books/movies). Every single one of them could not play the game for more than a day because of the horrible looks of the player character models. They all agree that the models are the worst looking characters they have ever seen in a computer game. Not a single one of my 14 or so friends could handle looking at the toons in LotRO so I finally quit the game after a month because none of them would play the game with me. They were so mad because all thier life they have dreamed of an MMO that would allow you to live in Middle Earth. It is sad really that even die-hard Tolkien fans can not enjoy the game because of the lousy character models. Turbine would have had all of them as life long subscribers had they cared to make decent looking characters. How many other Tolkien fans have Turbine lost out on because of this I wonder *Cry* !
Yeah, that was what I thought. Is there anyone who heard anything from Turbine on the matter? Maybe we should really make a petition about it, Im sure Turbine would earn a lot more cash than it costs if they fixed it.
I really don't understand what's all the fuzz about. The characters looking fine to me?? why are people flaming about this??? It really looks okay!
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waiting for ... nothing..
It's the thing with platemail looking like tight swimsuit that divers use.
First of all we are not flaming. I think people are just stating their preference. And though they look fine to you they don't look fine to me. That picture above is just too flamboyant and mishmashed for my taste. There is nothing inspiring about the armor or clothing in this game. Not to say that all of it is bad, just not amazing or "great".
For example, I showed some non-gamer friends (as most of my friends don't play video games) the LOTRO world and they though all the characters looked bad as compared to other games I've had.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yeah, I never understood why people call constructive ideas flaming... We just believe the game will get more players if they revamp some stuff. Flaming would be if we said we hated the game but we don't.
There is something that needs to be fixed in all game, and in LOTROs case it is the avatars and armours. I havnt really noticed any flamers at all here, the discussion is far more civilised than it is in many other places like in the DF, AoC, Wow or WAR forums.
LOL! One thing I've found in the mmo world is that it's populated with the loudest whiners in any hobby.
That being said, I think the armor and animation is fine...so I'm moving on from this thread as it's turning into a broken record.
That might be true but indicating that one doesn't like something has nothign to do with whining.
Whining means to complain in a childish manner.
Quite frankly I think this thread had been very mature until your point of taking your toys and going home.
I'm glad you like the LOTRO avatars. I think it's acceptable for people not to like them. People don't like Jasckson Pollack or later klimt and that doesn't make them whiners to say so.
Are the avatars broken? No. They are just in an art style that a group of people don't like. this has been going on since Beta so it's obvious people have not changed their minds.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is exacly the point and I can say I agree with your friends.
The main issue is not the textures, shaders and animation, it is the absolute non Tolkien/Lord of the rings looks in all playable characters.
...
I agree with your point Sovrath, but I dont think it is right to include Klimt here, usually people doesnt like expressionism and abstractic expressionism because most people thinks art is only "decorative/portrait of something obvious" and doesnt has a concept and ideas behind the aestheticall expression.
There is no such thing among characters in MMO or Lotro, sorry, even when I agree with your point about Lotro, I think you made a mistake using these artists as example, even with the fact I belive the art of Klimt and Schiele is more expressive and important than Pollack´s art... sure, you may disagree about my opinion related to these artists, but I just want to point that it is not a fair comparition between people that doesnt understand expressionism and people that cant accept Lotro´s characters.
...
I find that the movement and animations of the game is very good IMO. Clothing and armour at low levels are a bit ugly. But that improves a lot with apperance clothing/armour.
I could wish for more options and diversity in character creation when it comes to face and body.
But all in all I think its a lot better than most other mmo's ive tried. The best one yet when it comes to character creation was SWG. That was awsome imo.
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The waists are too narrow and the waist line is too low. Hips seem non-existant. They need to take a look at Da Vinci's Vitruvian man.
I agree with your point Sovrath, but I dont think it is right to include Klimt here, usually people doesnt like expressionism and abstractic expressionism because most people thinks art is only "decorative/portrait of something obvious" and doesnt has a concept and ideas behind the aestheticall expression.
There is no such thing among characters in MMO or Lotro, sorry, even when I agree with your point about Lotro, I think you made a mistake using these artists as example, even with the fact I belive the art of Klimt and Schiele is more expressive and important than Pollack´s art... sure, you may disagree about my opinion related to these artists, but I just want to point that it is not a fair comparition between people that doesnt understand expressionism and people that cant accept Lotro´s characters.
...
Actually it's a perfectly apt comparison. especially when you look at klimt's early work as compared to his later work. There is obviously a difference. People who prefer a more classical art style WOULD like his early work.
Having said that, whether or not people like these works or not, it's all about what they consider good art or pleasing. Just like whether or not people like how the rendering of the LOTRO avatars is dependent on their taste.
Sure it might be a somewhat extreme comparison as you wouldn't find such a wide range in styles comparing Pollack to say a Rembrandt or a Vermeer, there is still a wide enough gap that someone can look at the avatars of EQ II or WoW or LOTRO or Lineage 2 or Conan and realize that there are so many ways to make the representation.
LOTRO went for a realistic style which I highly applaud. However I feel a game like Conan was better able to capture what actually fit in the world as opposed to LOTRO which didn't go far enough.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo