As a note I hate the roll system on end loot distibution. Why does most of the all the players that participate in a RAID don't get a reward? How fair is that?
Either give an item or the same token to all of them.
Were is the excitement in that? If something is given to you everytime, then it becomes common and pretty boring.
With dropped items it would come from the random choice and a big list of possible items.
With tokens the exitement could come in different ways.
Example 1:
1 token = choice, even random, of tier 1 item
2 tokens = choice, even random, of tier 2 item
3 tokens = choice, even random, of tier 3 item
4 ...
Example 2:
1 tokens = 20% chance of getting an item.
2 tokens = 40% chance of getting an item.
3 ...
& tokens lost at usage even if you don't get an item
I'll flock to whatever... or nothing. The game finally fizzled for me... or I fizzled. I can't get interested even a couple hours a month now with two 70's and being in the middle of capping two other classes. Account down just before big patch and I'm not even curious.
The exp? I just don't have the energy to go through it all again. I'm also losing respect for how they're adding quick fixes to add things that WAR has like attacking capitols for some useless achievement points and being able to enter bg's anywhere. Come on. Use your little bit of competition blizz and take it to the next level not this shameless "me too" crap. I'm in no way defending WAR. Game's horrible but that's fine. I don't need a replacement.
I really didn't want to get bored of it. Just happened. I feel like a fool even thinking about buying the exp. I'm looking forward to their other games but hate some of the decisions like selling s2 in 3 parts and no LAN play for diablo? I dunno. 'Ol blizz is flaking out.
So I spend 100 hours getting gear for my char and now I might as well have never played. Blizzard wrecked the game again but this time watch the mass exodus to alternates. Blizzard got drunk on profits and forgot that the customer matters first. WOTLK is all the same stuff with new colors.
First of all, what are you talking about? WotLK hasn't been released yet. And if you're actually even PLAYING WoW, then you know that we're presently in the middle of a patch, and no one has been logged in to say what the patch has or hasn't done yet for sure.
Secondly, you join the forums TODAY and have all of what.....8 posts? Did you just sign up to come here and pretend you play WoW and complain or what? I could be wrong, but frankly...it looks a tad bit suspicious, if not downright troll-ish.
Oh yeah, and last but not least...you spent 100 hours getting gear? What are you wearing, all white, greys and greens? O.o 100 hours wouldn't come NEAR being worth gettin' your panties in a twist over. Before you try another one of these kinds of posts....do a bit of research and find out how many hours some of us have played to be wearing t4-t6 epics or Brutal gear and then come whine. It MIGHT make you more believable.
When TBC came out I was annoyed that my uber raiding priest was now on the same level as everyone else, but I took it as an opportunity to start fresh and I rolled up a shammy.
I don't play WoW anymore (I got tired of raiding...), but I'd suggest the OP can either deal with the gear reset (it won't be the last time), reroll, or find something else to play. Personally I've been playing Eve about 18 months now and while it occasionally pisses me off, at least gear isn't really an issue - it's the means to the end, not the end in itself.
10 new levels with new talents and new spells for all classes
Same great gameplay that is enjoyed by 10.7 million players.
What game do you play?
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
10 new levels with new talents and new spells for all classes
Same great gameplay that is enjoyed by 10.7 million players.
What game do you play?
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
Ok, so lets stop using 10.7M because you don't think asian people count even though they have to pay to play.
Let's go use the 4.5M. that is still 10 times larger than Warhammer, which is in second place in NA/EU.
You don't think players are happy in WOW? look at the preorders for Wrath.. it has been #1 on every chart since the day the release date was published. That is an aweful lot of unhappy people who are planning on paying $40 to continue to play a bad game they don't like. This isn't a new game like Warhammer or AOC with a lot of hype.. this is a preorder for a game people are already playing and they know exactly what they are getting in Wrath.
Yeah.. WOW is dead.. wait until Wrath sells 3.5M copies on the first day
As a note I hate the roll system on end loot distibution. Why does most of the all the players that participate in a RAID don't get a reward? How fair is that?
Either give an item or the same token to all of them.
Were is the excitement in that? If something is given to you everytime, then it becomes common and pretty boring.
...and running the same raid a zillion times to equip the whole guild aint? Raids are what get people burnt out on WoW, cause their loot distribution system sucks beyond measure. Sadly its the same in almost every game that feature raiding. I haven't seen one that doesn't use that mind numbing grind mechanic.
Pretty much my only gripe is that there's not really meaningful pvp. All BG's are instanced and really capping anything in open world doesn't help you too much. Other than that I found WoW to be a lot of fun. The only reason I went to WAR was for really meaningful open world pvp. That and taco night.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
Pretty much my only gripe is that there's not really meaningful pvp. All BG's are instanced and really capping anything in open world doesn't help you too much. Other than that I found WoW to be a lot of fun. The only reason I went to WAR was for really meaningful open world pvp. That and taco night.
Ironically this thread is about Wrath offering nothing new. When one of the neatest things in wow (in my opinion) is the new open world pvp zone.
Moveable seige weapons.. you actually steer the catapults etc
personal carriers
destructable buldings, walls and landscape
Aerial combat (bombers and fighter planes)
Gamewide implications for the winning side.
On the beta servers it is a lot of fun. But blizzard has a terrible track recored for openworld pvp.. some of their attempts have been fun, but most aren't. On Beta, I think they succeeded, but I don't know if that will transfer over to the live servers.
I got burned out on Warhammer. There simply was not enough actual RvR.. everyone was queueing for scenarios (bgs). For two weeks I'd run through the RvR areas and barely see an enemy player.
Pretty much my only gripe is that there's not really meaningful pvp. All BG's are instanced and really capping anything in open world doesn't help you too much. Other than that I found WoW to be a lot of fun. The only reason I went to WAR was for really meaningful open world pvp. That and taco night.
Ironically this thread is about Wrath offering nothing new. When one of the neatest things in wow (in my opinion) is the new open world pvp zone.
Moveable seige weapons.. you actually steer the catapults etc
personal carriers
destructable buldings, walls and landscape
Aerial combat (bombers and fighter planes)
Gamewide implications for the winning side.
On the beta servers it is a lot of fun. But blizzard has a terrible track recored for openworld pvp.. some of their attempts have been fun, but most aren't. On Beta, I think they succeeded, but I don't know if that will transfer over to the live servers.
I got burned out on Warhammer. There simply was not enough actual RvR.. everyone was queueing for scenarios (bgs). For two weeks I'd run through the RvR areas and barely see an enemy player.
Yeah I've heard some really good things about Wintergrasp - shame they it's only one zone. I've heard comments along the lines that it's better than WAR as it includes siege engines etc. But we won't get into that ...
10 new levels with new talents and new spells for all classes
Same great gameplay that is enjoyed by 10.7 million players.
What game do you play?
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
While I am not a particular fan of Blizzard at the moment, I found the two highlighted statements quite amusing.
4 to 5 Million active players. OH NOEZ, the game is dead!!!!!
yeah.. if WOW is dead with 4M players.. I wonder what he would call games like Warhammer, LoTRO and AOC who have only 100-400k players... what is worse then 'dead'... decomposed?
Originally posted by woody1974 Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....Many websites Ive been to have said ""The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers..... WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
LMAO at this post, is it just me or do some people 'want' to hate this game so much that they will spew any line possible to try and justify their hatred towards something they know to be good whatever they say?
Just a few notes on your post;
1: Yes, you are right that it isn't 10.7M players but if you think that every player has several accounts then you are wandering well into the dilusional zone yourself. Saying that, even if every player had 5 accounts, they would still add up to more than the next most popular MMO's put together.
2: Blizzard have always been very up front about how they count 'active accounts' in the ways that you have described, at the end of the day as long as the account has been paid for, it is active and this is regardless of how many hours, minutes or seconds that someone actually plays on it for.
3: FYI, Asia is a continent, not a country! Maybe take some time out and read up some info and realise that it also accounts for around 60% of the worlds population, so the fact that they have so few subs is probably more shocking than saying they have so many. The fact that they outnumber subs in US/EU is in no way surprising or shocking, it is just a matter of numbers and as i said previously i am shocked the difference is not bigger. If i was a resident of that continent i would also find it very insulting that you pigeon hole everyone there as a gold seller, VERY insulting.
4: Most of the gold seller ads in game come from people creating trial accounts which are of course deleted after use and are never counted towards subs numbers anyway, only those that actually upgrade to a full account are counted towards the subs numbers.
5: I really do hope you can back up your 'fact' that the 10.7M subs number 'is a fabricated number' by Blizzard/Vivendi as they have investors to answer to and as such it would be a very serious accusation if it were true. Do you think that it is more your 'opinion' than fact?
If you are gonna drop into threads to make statements like these, at least do a little research first, otherwise it is just a 'wow hater' rant and nothing more.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
SIgh at people replying to an obvious troll (I know I replied to prove my point). I bet he's laughing his/her fat *** right now making us feel stupid about this dumb topic.
10 new levels with new talents and new spells for all classes
Same great gameplay that is enjoyed by 10.7 million players.
What game do you play?
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
there are less than 700k gold farmers distributed around all mmorpg in the world.
so max i would say is that wow has 100k gold famrers..
which still means there are 10.6 million active subs...
also in every mmo there are multi-boxers....you cant hold that against wow...
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers.... Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Yes. He pays for 36 accounts. That IS 36 active subscriptions. Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts.... You're forgetting about all the accounts that are played by multiple people. I know people that have 1 account and 3 or 4 people play on it. You telling me that's only 1 subscriber? You can't have it both ways. If you are going to count 1 person with 36 accounts as 1 subscriber, then you got to count 1 account that 4 people play at once as 4 subscribers. Unfortunately there's no way of knowing those numbers. Blizzard doesn't count subscribers, they count subscriptions. They know it's not a 1 for 1 number, but for arguments sake it doesn't really matter. All games do it this way because it's the only way they can do it. Many websites Ive been to have said " "The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service" So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys... Thousands? What's a few thousand gold sellers? They have over 5 MILLION subscpriptions in Asia and your talking about a few thousand gold sellers? Ok, take them away and what do you have? You STILL have 5 million subscriptions. You're not even making any sense. and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers..... Actually they get rid of gold sellers all the time, as soon as they identify them as gold sellers. What do you want Blizzard to do, just ASSUME they have a set number of gold sellers and pull them out of the numbers? How on earth would that make the number more accurate? It would be a total guess. That's not MORE accurate, it's LESS accurate. And please tell me what OTHER developers don't count gold sellers? That's right, NONE. WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players IMO, your opinion is based on nothing but pure speculation and bias.
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts.... Many websites Ive been to have said ""The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service" So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close... 10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
LMAO at this post, is it just me or do some people 'want' to hate this game so much that they will spew any line possible to try and justify their hatred towards something they know to be good whatever they say?
Just a few notes on your post;
1: Yes, you are right that it isn't 10.7M players but if you think that every player has several accounts then you are wandering well into the dilusional zone yourself. Saying that, even if every player had 5 accounts, they would still add up to more than the next most popular MMO's put together.
2: Blizzard have always been very up front about how they count 'active accounts' in the ways that you have described, at the end of the day as long as the account has been paid for, it is active and this is regardless of how many hours, minutes or seconds that someone actually plays on it for.
3: FYI, Asia is a continent, not a country! Maybe take some time out and read up some info and realise that it also accounts for around 60% of the worlds population, so the fact that they have so few subs is probably more shocking than saying they have so many. The fact that they outnumber subs in US/EU is in no way surprising or shocking, it is just a matter of numbers and as i said previously i am shocked the difference is not bigger. If i was a resident of that continent i would also find it very insulting that you pigeon hole everyone there as a gold seller, VERY insulting.
4: Most of the gold seller ads in game come from people creating trial accounts which are of course deleted after use and are never counted towards subs numbers anyway, only those that actually upgrade to a full account are counted towards the subs numbers.
5: I really do hope you can back up your 'fact' that the 10.7M subs number 'is a fabricated number' by Blizzard/Vivendi as they have investors to answer to and as such it would be a very serious accusation if it were true. Do you think that it is more your 'opinion' than fact?
If you are gonna drop into threads to make statements like these, at least do a little research first, otherwise it is just a 'wow hater' rant and nothing more.
WOW hey guess what I have an island off the coast of Florida I want to sell you for $5...Jeez cmon are you that naive...
If I ran a business that made lots of money, id blow smoke up your a** too just to keep you around...
Name me a mmo game that hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket from gold and powerlvling garbage, thanx to the Asian subscribers. I can name you several. EQ2, Lineage2, DAOC, LOTR, and WOW.....
Go to the lick below, copy and paste it and you will get the picture.
The BBC reports that gold farming, a practice much despised by some MMO gamers, is a $500 million global business, employing a half-million people.
Citing research conducted by Prof. Richard Heeks of Manchester University, the BBC reports that 80% of worldwide gold farming is based in China. (and where is China located? uh Asia.)Workers there earn about $145 per month for their efforts. Said Heeks:
I initially became aware of gold farming through my own games-playing but assumed it was just a cottage industry. In a way that is still true. It's just that instead of a few dozen cottages, there turn out to be tens of thousands... I was drawn to write about gold farming due to my perception that it's a significant phenomenon that academics and development organisations are unaware of...
It is also a glimpse into the digital underworld. Or at least the edges of a digital underworld populated by scammers and hackers and pornographers and which has spread to the "Third World" far more than we typically realise.
Heeks maintains that the worldwide gold farming business has already surpassed the annual revenue of India's booming software outsourcing market:
Meanwhile, Secure Play exec Steven Davis doesn't expect an end to gold farming anytime soon:
When you get people with more money than time and time than money the two will find a way to meet... You could get rid of it," he said, "but you would get rid of one of the most fundamental parts of player-to-player interaction.
I did my research but I can see all you did was post on the fly....
I love battle of wits with people that are unarmed.
Originally posted by woody1974 I did my research but I can see all you did was post on the fly....I love battle of wits with people that are unarmed.
I wouldn't consider myself naive, i would consider myself a person that reads reportsand articles and then makes up his own mind about the given facts rather than someone that takes them as gospel and spews them back as fact on any given subject.
See, now, here is the problem.
These are some nice little articles, bits of unsubstantiated reports (not solid research), so to quote all this as fact is misleading to say the least. Even the BBC report says that "Nearly 500,000 people in developing nations earn a wage making virtual goods in online games to sell to players", so if you even give WoW a bulk of that at 150,000 that would still put the number of traders at a minimum compared to the number of subscribers in total which would mean that the 'Majority' of Asian subscribers are just players like everyone else. So with that in mind, to say that Asia 'fills' MMO's with gold and power levelling services is not only ill informed and misleading, it is also a slight against all of the decent Asian subscribers out there.
Also bear in mind that those making money from this would have to have accounts on the US/EU servers and wouldn't be counted on the Asian market subs numbers either (lets ignore for a moment how stringent China is about accessing the internet outside their own country).
To give a comlpetely stupid example of the numbers, if half the asian subs were just doing dailies to sell on the gold you would be looking at a market worth $8,250,000/day, $247,500,000/month or over $3 Billion/year (based on $15 per 1000g).
I could of course be wrong and i of course stand to be corrected at any time by a valid piece of research that can quote 'fact' rather than assumption and speculation, but until that time i will continue to make up my own mind rather than bleet back other peoples so called info.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
Blizzard wrecked the game again but this time watch the mass exodus to alternates.
And yet another business analyst visit these forums, and will of course be around for the evaluation after the sales and customer numbers are announced after WotLK launch...
I did my research but I can see all you did was post on the fly....
I love battle of wits with people that are unarmed.
I wouldn't consider myself naive, i would consider myself a person that reads reportsand articles and then makes up his own mind about the given facts rather than someone that takes them as gospel and spews them back as fact on any given subject.
See, now, here is the problem.
These are some nice little articles, bits of unsubstantiated reports (not solid research), so to quote all this as fact is misleading to say the least. Even the BBC report says that "Nearly 500,000 people in developing nations earn a wage making virtual goods in online games to sell to players", so if you even give WoW a bulk of that at 150,000 that would still put the number of traders at a minimum compared to the number of subscribers in total which would mean that the 'Majority' of Asian subscribers are just players like everyone else. So with that in mind, to say that Asia 'fills' MMO's with gold and power levelling services is not only ill informed and misleading, it is also a slight against all of the decent Asian subscribers out there.
Also bear in mind that those making money from this would have to have accounts on the US/EU servers and wouldn't be counted on the Asian market subs numbers either (lets ignore for a moment how stringent China is about accessing the internet outside their own country).
To give a comlpetely stupid example of the numbers, if half the asian subs were just doing dailies to sell on the gold you would be looking at a market worth $8,250,000/day, $247,500,000/month or over $3 Billion/year (based on $15 per 1000g).
I could of course be wrong and i of course stand to be corrected at any time by a valid piece of research that can quote 'fact' rather than assumption and speculation, but until that time i will continue to make up my own mind rather than bleet back other peoples so called info.
Some sites suggest that its a Bllion dollar a year industry and of course the one I put in my post says 500 million, either way you can't deny that this isn't a huge amount of money being made.
I came across another site that where a guy that runs a sweatshop says:
"It's unimaginable how big this is," said Chen Yu, 27, who employs 20 full-time gamers in Fuzhou. "They say that in some of these popular games, 40 or 50 percent of the players are actually Chinese farmers."
Popular games: WOW, DAOC, EQ2, Lineage2, AOC.
40% or 50% is huge, if we went 50% on WOW's so called 10 mill sub base, thats 1/2 their sub base. 5.5 Million of WOW's subs are from Asia, not everyone in Asia is apart of this garbage, but the facts show that 80% of the gold farmers and powerleveling services come from the continent of Asia.
Is it really fair to claim them as active subscribers as WOW is claiming to have? The facts says NO. I don't think I have came across any sites that say otherwise about the impact the Asian market has on MMO's
Im not making this stuff up, go google search it and you will see the amounts of sites that discuss this.
My problem is this about WOW claim of 10 million subs is fabricated and yes if I was in charge of a billion dollar industry I would lie to you too. Why the heck would I tell you the truth and risk losing all that money that buys me nice houses, cars, boats, vacations.
Some sites suggest that its a Bllion dollar a year industry and of course the one I put in my post says 500 million, either way you can't deny that this isn't a huge amount of money being made. I came across another site that where a guy that runs a sweatshop says: "It's unimaginable how big this is," said Chen Yu, 27, who employs 20 full-time gamers in Fuzhou. "They say that in some of these popular games, 40 or 50 percent of the players are actually Chinese farmers." Popular games: WOW, DAOC, EQ2, Lineage2, AOC. 40% or 50% is huge, if we went 50% on WOW's so called 10 mill sub base, thats 1/2 their sub base. 5.5 Million of WOW's subs are from Asia, not everyone in Asia is apart of this garbage, but the facts show that 80% of the gold farmers and powerleveling services come from the continent of Asia. Is it really fair to claim them as active subscribers as WOW is claiming to have? The facts says NO. I don't think I have came across any sites that say otherwise about the impact the Asian market has on MMO's Im not making this stuff up, go google search it and you will see the amounts of sites that discuss this. My problem is this about WOW claim of 10 million subs is fabricated and yes if I was in charge of a billion dollar industry I would lie to you too. Why the heck would I tell you the truth and risk losing all that money that buys me nice houses, cars, boats, vacations.
The 10.9 (!) million active and paid subscriptions come from the official Vivendi AUDITED financial reports.
Last update was June 2008.
As you know Vivendi is a stock rated company that has to apply to all international financial laws and there fore has to put forward AUDITED numbers of financial results.
There you WILL find that Blizzard group is responsible for about 1.2 BILLION dollars of revenus on a yearly basis.
So there are TWO possibilities: OR Vivendi and blizzard are up to their neck in illegal Columbian drug dealing traffic to obtain those 1.2 billion dollars revenus OR they just could and might get this figure out of the gaming industry.
Your choice.
Also Wow has about 55%_ 60% of the complete western market in the MMORPG industry (free MMO's INCLUDED !) in GAME PLAY time.
Xfire is a pure Western used tool to analyse this and YES during the last 2 days when Wow servers were down to implement the pre launch patch of WotLK it showed on Xfire.
So you have the official FINANCIAL reports, you have the users playings reports and you have your thoughts ...
Comments
Were is the excitement in that? If something is given to you everytime, then it becomes common and pretty boring.
Example 1:
1 token = choice, even random, of tier 1 item
2 tokens = choice, even random, of tier 2 item
3 tokens = choice, even random, of tier 3 item
4 ...
Example 2:
1 tokens = 20% chance of getting an item.
2 tokens = 40% chance of getting an item.
3 ...
& tokens lost at usage even if you don't get an item
What do you think?
QFE.
QFE.
And that's why we all PAY to play the damned thing.
Who's this? I haven't played World of Warcraft for YEARS.
I'll flock to whatever... or nothing. The game finally fizzled for me... or I fizzled. I can't get interested even a couple hours a month now with two 70's and being in the middle of capping two other classes. Account down just before big patch and I'm not even curious.
The exp? I just don't have the energy to go through it all again. I'm also losing respect for how they're adding quick fixes to add things that WAR has like attacking capitols for some useless achievement points and being able to enter bg's anywhere. Come on. Use your little bit of competition blizz and take it to the next level not this shameless "me too" crap. I'm in no way defending WAR. Game's horrible but that's fine. I don't need a replacement.
I really didn't want to get bored of it. Just happened. I feel like a fool even thinking about buying the exp. I'm looking forward to their other games but hate some of the decisions like selling s2 in 3 parts and no LAN play for diablo? I dunno. 'Ol blizz is flaking out.
First of all, what are you talking about? WotLK hasn't been released yet. And if you're actually even PLAYING WoW, then you know that we're presently in the middle of a patch, and no one has been logged in to say what the patch has or hasn't done yet for sure.
Secondly, you join the forums TODAY and have all of what.....8 posts? Did you just sign up to come here and pretend you play WoW and complain or what? I could be wrong, but frankly...it looks a tad bit suspicious, if not downright troll-ish.
Oh yeah, and last but not least...you spent 100 hours getting gear? What are you wearing, all white, greys and greens? O.o 100 hours wouldn't come NEAR being worth gettin' your panties in a twist over. Before you try another one of these kinds of posts....do a bit of research and find out how many hours some of us have played to be wearing t4-t6 epics or Brutal gear and then come whine. It MIGHT make you more believable.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
When TBC came out I was annoyed that my uber raiding priest was now on the same level as everyone else, but I took it as an opportunity to start fresh and I rolled up a shammy.
I don't play WoW anymore (I got tired of raiding...), but I'd suggest the OP can either deal with the gear reset (it won't be the last time), reroll, or find something else to play. Personally I've been playing Eve about 18 months now and while it occasionally pisses me off, at least gear isn't really an issue - it's the means to the end, not the end in itself.
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
Ok, so lets stop using 10.7M because you don't think asian people count even though they have to pay to play.
Let's go use the 4.5M. that is still 10 times larger than Warhammer, which is in second place in NA/EU.
You don't think players are happy in WOW? look at the preorders for Wrath.. it has been #1 on every chart since the day the release date was published. That is an aweful lot of unhappy people who are planning on paying $40 to continue to play a bad game they don't like. This isn't a new game like Warhammer or AOC with a lot of hype.. this is a preorder for a game people are already playing and they know exactly what they are getting in Wrath.
Yeah.. WOW is dead.. wait until Wrath sells 3.5M copies on the first day
Were is the excitement in that? If something is given to you everytime, then it becomes common and pretty boring.
...and running the same raid a zillion times to equip the whole guild aint? Raids are what get people burnt out on WoW, cause their loot distribution system sucks beyond measure. Sadly its the same in almost every game that feature raiding. I haven't seen one that doesn't use that mind numbing grind mechanic.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Pretty much my only gripe is that there's not really meaningful pvp. All BG's are instanced and really capping anything in open world doesn't help you too much. Other than that I found WoW to be a lot of fun. The only reason I went to WAR was for really meaningful open world pvp. That and taco night.
Originally posted by GTwander:
How are you an MMO? Or any of us for that matter?
I say we strike all users from the site for not being MMOs.
Ironically this thread is about Wrath offering nothing new. When one of the neatest things in wow (in my opinion) is the new open world pvp zone.
Moveable seige weapons.. you actually steer the catapults etc
personal carriers
destructable buldings, walls and landscape
Aerial combat (bombers and fighter planes)
Gamewide implications for the winning side.
On the beta servers it is a lot of fun. But blizzard has a terrible track recored for openworld pvp.. some of their attempts have been fun, but most aren't. On Beta, I think they succeeded, but I don't know if that will transfer over to the live servers.
I got burned out on Warhammer. There simply was not enough actual RvR.. everyone was queueing for scenarios (bgs). For two weeks I'd run through the RvR areas and barely see an enemy player.
Ironically this thread is about Wrath offering nothing new. When one of the neatest things in wow (in my opinion) is the new open world pvp zone.
Moveable seige weapons.. you actually steer the catapults etc
personal carriers
destructable buldings, walls and landscape
Aerial combat (bombers and fighter planes)
Gamewide implications for the winning side.
On the beta servers it is a lot of fun. But blizzard has a terrible track recored for openworld pvp.. some of their attempts have been fun, but most aren't. On Beta, I think they succeeded, but I don't know if that will transfer over to the live servers.
I got burned out on Warhammer. There simply was not enough actual RvR.. everyone was queueing for scenarios (bgs). For two weeks I'd run through the RvR areas and barely see an enemy player.
Yeah I've heard some really good things about Wintergrasp - shame they it's only one zone. I've heard comments along the lines that it's better than WAR as it includes siege engines etc. But we won't get into that ...
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
While I am not a particular fan of Blizzard at the moment, I found the two highlighted statements quite amusing.
4 to 5 Million active players. OH NOEZ, the game is dead!!!!!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
yeah.. if WOW is dead with 4M players.. I wonder what he would call games like Warhammer, LoTRO and AOC who have only 100-400k players... what is worse then 'dead'... decomposed?
LMAO at this post, is it just me or do some people 'want' to hate this game so much that they will spew any line possible to try and justify their hatred towards something they know to be good whatever they say?
Just a few notes on your post;
1: Yes, you are right that it isn't 10.7M players but if you think that every player has several accounts then you are wandering well into the dilusional zone yourself. Saying that, even if every player had 5 accounts, they would still add up to more than the next most popular MMO's put together.
2: Blizzard have always been very up front about how they count 'active accounts' in the ways that you have described, at the end of the day as long as the account has been paid for, it is active and this is regardless of how many hours, minutes or seconds that someone actually plays on it for.
3: FYI, Asia is a continent, not a country! Maybe take some time out and read up some info and realise that it also accounts for around 60% of the worlds population, so the fact that they have so few subs is probably more shocking than saying they have so many. The fact that they outnumber subs in US/EU is in no way surprising or shocking, it is just a matter of numbers and as i said previously i am shocked the difference is not bigger. If i was a resident of that continent i would also find it very insulting that you pigeon hole everyone there as a gold seller, VERY insulting.
4: Most of the gold seller ads in game come from people creating trial accounts which are of course deleted after use and are never counted towards subs numbers anyway, only those that actually upgrade to a full account are counted towards the subs numbers.
5: I really do hope you can back up your 'fact' that the 10.7M subs number 'is a fabricated number' by Blizzard/Vivendi as they have investors to answer to and as such it would be a very serious accusation if it were true. Do you think that it is more your 'opinion' than fact?
If you are gonna drop into threads to make statements like these, at least do a little research first, otherwise it is just a 'wow hater' rant and nothing more.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
. . .because no other game company came out with any mold-breaking ideas to rip off?
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You wouldn't understand
SIgh at people replying to an obvious troll (I know I replied to prove my point). I bet he's laughing his/her fat *** right now making us feel stupid about this dumb topic.
MMO Reporter
Your very delusional if you think WOW has 10.7million active subscribers....
Heck 1 of the posts on mmorpg show a WOW player that has 36 accounts alone....So do you count him as 36 subscribers? Of course I guarentee he isnt the only 1 that has multiple accounts....
Many websites Ive been to have said "
"The company counts more than 2 million subscribers in Europe, more than 2.5 million in North America, and about 5.5 million in Asia. Blizzard said it includes as subscribers not only active, long-term members but also prepaid subscription cardholders and players who recently bought the game and are within their first free month of service"
So you have 5.5 million subs in Asia, just about over 1/2 the sub base from a well known country that is guilty of filling mmo's with gold and power lvling services...These people are buying hundreds if not thousands of WOW keys and subscribing to solicit money from the games customers....Yet we count them as active players,,,,lol thats a joke right? They log on send their mass tells for gold and powerlvling services and log off, they qualify as active subscribers.....
WOW is dead, in fact I don't think the game was ever really alive...5.5 Million subs from Asia... EU and US combined don't even come close...
10.7 million "ACTIVE" subs is a fabricated number. WOW imo prob has about 4 or 5 million active players
there are less than 700k gold farmers distributed around all mmorpg in the world.
so max i would say is that wow has 100k gold famrers..
which still means there are 10.6 million active subs...
also in every mmo there are multi-boxers....you cant hold that against wow...
they just count how many accounts they have.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
LMAO at this post, is it just me or do some people 'want' to hate this game so much that they will spew any line possible to try and justify their hatred towards something they know to be good whatever they say?
Just a few notes on your post;
1: Yes, you are right that it isn't 10.7M players but if you think that every player has several accounts then you are wandering well into the dilusional zone yourself. Saying that, even if every player had 5 accounts, they would still add up to more than the next most popular MMO's put together.
2: Blizzard have always been very up front about how they count 'active accounts' in the ways that you have described, at the end of the day as long as the account has been paid for, it is active and this is regardless of how many hours, minutes or seconds that someone actually plays on it for.
3: FYI, Asia is a continent, not a country! Maybe take some time out and read up some info and realise that it also accounts for around 60% of the worlds population, so the fact that they have so few subs is probably more shocking than saying they have so many. The fact that they outnumber subs in US/EU is in no way surprising or shocking, it is just a matter of numbers and as i said previously i am shocked the difference is not bigger. If i was a resident of that continent i would also find it very insulting that you pigeon hole everyone there as a gold seller, VERY insulting.
4: Most of the gold seller ads in game come from people creating trial accounts which are of course deleted after use and are never counted towards subs numbers anyway, only those that actually upgrade to a full account are counted towards the subs numbers.
5: I really do hope you can back up your 'fact' that the 10.7M subs number 'is a fabricated number' by Blizzard/Vivendi as they have investors to answer to and as such it would be a very serious accusation if it were true. Do you think that it is more your 'opinion' than fact?
If you are gonna drop into threads to make statements like these, at least do a little research first, otherwise it is just a 'wow hater' rant and nothing more.
WOW hey guess what I have an island off the coast of Florida I want to sell you for $5...Jeez cmon are you that naive...
If I ran a business that made lots of money, id blow smoke up your a** too just to keep you around...
Name me a mmo game that hasn't gone to hell in a handbasket from gold and powerlvling garbage, thanx to the Asian subscribers. I can name you several. EQ2, Lineage2, DAOC, LOTR, and WOW.....
Go to the lick below, copy and paste it and you will get the picture.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?pagewanted=all
and..
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/08/24/report-gold-farming-500-million-industry
Report: Gold Farming a $500 Million Industry
August 24, 2008
The BBC reports that gold farming, a practice much despised by some MMO gamers, is a $500 million global business, employing a half-million people.
Citing research conducted by Prof. Richard Heeks of Manchester University, the BBC reports that 80% of worldwide gold farming is based in China. (and where is China located? uh Asia.)Workers there earn about $145 per month for their efforts. Said Heeks:
I initially became aware of gold farming through my own games-playing but assumed it was just a cottage industry. In a way that is still true. It's just that instead of a few dozen cottages, there turn out to be tens of thousands... I was drawn to write about gold farming due to my perception that it's a significant phenomenon that academics and development organisations are unaware of...
It is also a glimpse into the digital underworld. Or at least the edges of a digital underworld populated by scammers and hackers and pornographers and which has spread to the "Third World" far more than we typically realise.
Heeks maintains that the worldwide gold farming business has already surpassed the annual revenue of India's booming software outsourcing market:
Meanwhile, Secure Play exec Steven Davis doesn't expect an end to gold farming anytime soon:
When you get people with more money than time and time than money the two will find a way to meet... You could get rid of it," he said, "but you would get rid of one of the most fundamental parts of player-to-player interaction.
I did my research but I can see all you did was post on the fly....
I love battle of wits with people that are unarmed.
I wouldn't consider myself naive, i would consider myself a person that reads reportsand articles and then makes up his own mind about the given facts rather than someone that takes them as gospel and spews them back as fact on any given subject.
See, now, here is the problem.
These are some nice little articles, bits of unsubstantiated reports (not solid research), so to quote all this as fact is misleading to say the least. Even the BBC report says that "Nearly 500,000 people in developing nations earn a wage making virtual goods in online games to sell to players", so if you even give WoW a bulk of that at 150,000 that would still put the number of traders at a minimum compared to the number of subscribers in total which would mean that the 'Majority' of Asian subscribers are just players like everyone else. So with that in mind, to say that Asia 'fills' MMO's with gold and power levelling services is not only ill informed and misleading, it is also a slight against all of the decent Asian subscribers out there.
Also bear in mind that those making money from this would have to have accounts on the US/EU servers and wouldn't be counted on the Asian market subs numbers either (lets ignore for a moment how stringent China is about accessing the internet outside their own country).
To give a comlpetely stupid example of the numbers, if half the asian subs were just doing dailies to sell on the gold you would be looking at a market worth $8,250,000/day, $247,500,000/month or over $3 Billion/year (based on $15 per 1000g).
I could of course be wrong and i of course stand to be corrected at any time by a valid piece of research that can quote 'fact' rather than assumption and speculation, but until that time i will continue to make up my own mind rather than bleet back other peoples so called info.
It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.
And yet another business analyst visit these forums, and will of course be around for the evaluation after the sales and customer numbers are announced after WotLK launch...
Right?
I wouldn't consider myself naive, i would consider myself a person that reads reportsand articles and then makes up his own mind about the given facts rather than someone that takes them as gospel and spews them back as fact on any given subject.
See, now, here is the problem.
These are some nice little articles, bits of unsubstantiated reports (not solid research), so to quote all this as fact is misleading to say the least. Even the BBC report says that "Nearly 500,000 people in developing nations earn a wage making virtual goods in online games to sell to players", so if you even give WoW a bulk of that at 150,000 that would still put the number of traders at a minimum compared to the number of subscribers in total which would mean that the 'Majority' of Asian subscribers are just players like everyone else. So with that in mind, to say that Asia 'fills' MMO's with gold and power levelling services is not only ill informed and misleading, it is also a slight against all of the decent Asian subscribers out there.
Also bear in mind that those making money from this would have to have accounts on the US/EU servers and wouldn't be counted on the Asian market subs numbers either (lets ignore for a moment how stringent China is about accessing the internet outside their own country).
To give a comlpetely stupid example of the numbers, if half the asian subs were just doing dailies to sell on the gold you would be looking at a market worth $8,250,000/day, $247,500,000/month or over $3 Billion/year (based on $15 per 1000g).
I could of course be wrong and i of course stand to be corrected at any time by a valid piece of research that can quote 'fact' rather than assumption and speculation, but until that time i will continue to make up my own mind rather than bleet back other peoples so called info.
Some sites suggest that its a Bllion dollar a year industry and of course the one I put in my post says 500 million, either way you can't deny that this isn't a huge amount of money being made.
I came across another site that where a guy that runs a sweatshop says:
"It's unimaginable how big this is," said Chen Yu, 27, who employs 20 full-time gamers in Fuzhou. "They say that in some of these popular games, 40 or 50 percent of the players are actually Chinese farmers."
Popular games: WOW, DAOC, EQ2, Lineage2, AOC.
40% or 50% is huge, if we went 50% on WOW's so called 10 mill sub base, thats 1/2 their sub base. 5.5 Million of WOW's subs are from Asia, not everyone in Asia is apart of this garbage, but the facts show that 80% of the gold farmers and powerleveling services come from the continent of Asia.
Is it really fair to claim them as active subscribers as WOW is claiming to have? The facts says NO. I don't think I have came across any sites that say otherwise about the impact the Asian market has on MMO's
Im not making this stuff up, go google search it and you will see the amounts of sites that discuss this.
My problem is this about WOW claim of 10 million subs is fabricated and yes if I was in charge of a billion dollar industry I would lie to you too. Why the heck would I tell you the truth and risk losing all that money that buys me nice houses, cars, boats, vacations.
The 10.9 (!) million active and paid subscriptions come from the official Vivendi AUDITED financial reports.
Last update was June 2008.
As you know Vivendi is a stock rated company that has to apply to all international financial laws and there fore has to put forward AUDITED numbers of financial results.
www.vivendi.com.
Just do your research next time.
There you WILL find that Blizzard group is responsible for about 1.2 BILLION dollars of revenus on a yearly basis.
So there are TWO possibilities: OR Vivendi and blizzard are up to their neck in illegal Columbian drug dealing traffic to obtain those 1.2 billion dollars revenus OR they just could and might get this figure out of the gaming industry.
Your choice.
Also Wow has about 55%_ 60% of the complete western market in the MMORPG industry (free MMO's INCLUDED !) in GAME PLAY time.
Xfire is a pure Western used tool to analyse this and YES during the last 2 days when Wow servers were down to implement the pre launch patch of WotLK it showed on Xfire.
So you have the official FINANCIAL reports, you have the users playings reports and you have your thoughts ...
Guess which elements I would trust ?