The more PvPing that goes on, the better it is for crafters. Who else will buy our equipment, food, potions. PvPers demand the best potions, food, equipment and will pay for it to get an edge over the competition. PvE'rs more often than not, will look for the most economic route. High level PvE'rs will use better armour and weapons but its a one time purchase. A PvPer will regularly depend on you to sell armour sets, bulk potions, food etc. A crafters services will be in constant demand, and they will be considered a valuable part of every cities prosperity and defense.
First, thank you all for the calm discussion to someone who is on the fence from all who are particpating without being overzealous. It's appreciated.
There are many variables that will make such a theory a reality.
Population: How many people will be PvP'ing and dying enough to constitue the economy? How will they afford it if they keep dying? How much will be consumed in your average fight?
Mules: If everyone has a mule, who needs a crafter? Is Darkfall a one-character-per-server setup? Or can everyone have one? My fear is if it's TOO easy to craft, why would anyone look to someone else for their needs?
Resource Gathering: How will it be done? Will ganking prevent and frustrate most crafters from advancing?
Population (And density), consumption, and resource gathering are all key issues in regards to crafting, almost moreso than WHAT can be crafted.. I've heard much more about PvP and combat from Darkfall and posts on various forums than I've really heard about anything else.
In the end, to some degree, crafting NEEDS to be boring. It NEEDS to be dull, because if everyone can do it, no one needs it.
I'm not saying Darkfall may or may not have the answers to these problems, and until they really discuss it at length, then I'm quite content to maintain a wait-and-see approach, although I do find the disucssion fascinating. PvP is the heart of Darkfall, that is certain, but where the crafter fits into the grand scheme of things isn't quite clear, at least to me.
Well just a few small points but they say they dont want people to keep gear forever, it will deteriorate with use i guess and repairs so the crafters will be needed to keep everyone happy, especially if your in a big guild then the crafters will be a great asset. Also apparently there are no npc's that can repair your armour and weapons, only player crafters can which is pretty cool.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
Full looting ffa pvp....will be a nitch game only......and thats ok. I do wish they had some safe areas and factions pvp.They say they won't..so.Look at the hue and cry from ffa pvp in AOC.You will see the same thing in DF.For those that like that...it will be heaven(assuming the have decent marketing and customer support).
Well just a few small points but they say they dont want people to keep gear forever, it will deteriorate with use i guess and repairs so the crafters will be needed to keep everyone happy, especially if your in a big guild then the crafters will be a great asset. Also apparently there are no npc's that can repair your armour and weapons, only player crafters can which is pretty cool.
Interesting. This definitely facilitates the need for crafters. But unfortunately, it raises another concern - Advancement.
Part of skilling up is making items you don't need. Will NPC's be able to purchase items I make in order to skill up? Will I be able to recycle them for materials? How much skill can be gainned from repairing?
Questions, all. I'm sure no one has a definite answer yet (Unless of course, someone can point me the answer to said questions, of course!), but I'd certainly like to see the Devs talk more about it.
Full looting ffa pvp....will be a nitch game only......and thats ok. I do wish they had some safe areas and factions pvp.They say they won't..so.Look at the hue and cry from ffa pvp in AOC.You will see the same thing in DF.For those that like that...it will be heaven(assuming the have decent marketing and customer support).
Well it kinda does have safe areas, just not 100% safe, hehe. People of the same faction as you will get faction hits if they kill you and guards may attack them. Also some factions are hostile to each other so theres your factional pvp.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
I always have to laugh when people try to say DF is not interesting. We have already seen that a MMO without features can get ten millions of players.
And somesay that "DF seems to be all about combat"......as if WoW is not about combat?? And there you dont even have a option to not go into combat!
I really dont know where we are going with this never ending denial? Have we come to the point when we will look back, 30 years from, now and say WoW was the high mark of computergames? That a MMO that give the players more then one option was guaranteed to fail?
Darkfall will find the players that want more. And i would be so daring and say that they will be enough for the game to survive.
Why would it be a joke? Just observe all those Ultima Online worshippers who say they can't wait for Darkfall and that they need its features. What they fail to remember is that Ultima Online had 150k subscriptions while World of Warcraft has over 11 million (and will hit even more after WoTLK comes out). How can a game made for 150 thousend people really stand against a 11 million subcribers titan? They're highly comparable because Darkfall is getting many of WoW's main features and both of them are games from the same genre. Also, during all my years as a happy World of Warcraft player, I've met several Ultima Online ex-players who are more than happy with WoW, so I don't even see Darkfall having 150k subscriptions (if it really launches).
Lol, Bodypass go back under your bridge or better still back to the WAR forums, they are more deserving of your attention than we are.
Well just a few small points but they say they dont want people to keep gear forever, it will deteriorate with use i guess and repairs so the crafters will be needed to keep everyone happy, especially if your in a big guild then the crafters will be a great asset. Also apparently there are no npc's that can repair your armour and weapons, only player crafters can which is pretty cool.
Interesting. This definitely facilitates the need for crafters. But unfortunately, it raises another concern - Advancement.
Part of skilling up is making items you don't need. Will NPC's be able to purchase items I make in order to skill up? Will I be able to recycle them for materials? How much skill can be gainned from repairing?
Questions, all. I'm sure no one has a definite answer yet (Unless of course, someone can point me the answer to said questions, of course!), but I'd certainly like to see the Devs talk more about it.
Well i dont think it will be like other games because you have to remember that items will be flowing around between players all the time, because its full loot and because even npc's can loot, people will be wanting armour and weapons from crafters all the time and so pretty much any items you make by the sounds of things will be useful to someone out there.
I kind of hope npc's cant purchase your made goods because it would be nice to see people going to actual player crafter's for goods, i dont know if you can recycle stuff for materials, who knows about skill gained from repairing but i doubt it will be that much.
I think considering players are the only ones who can repair it sounds like, at a prediction, that people will go to player crafters for the weapons and armour, i just think it would be a little silly if they made it so you have to go to a player to repair but you can just buy any player crafters goods from npc's. Perhaps npc's are mainly just for selling npc monster stuff too. Who knows though.
Started playing mmorpg's in 1996 and have been hooked ever since. It began with Kingdom of Drakkar, Ultima Online, Everquest, DAoC, WoW...
The more PvPing that goes on, the better it is for crafters. Who else will buy our equipment, food, potions. PvPers demand the best potions, food, equipment and will pay for it to get an edge over the competition. PvE'rs more often than not, will look for the most economic route. High level PvE'rs will use better armour and weapons but its a one time purchase. A PvPer will regularly depend on you to sell armour sets, bulk potions, food etc. A crafters services will be in constant demand, and they will be considered a valuable part of every cities prosperity and defense.
First, thank you all for the calm discussion to someone who is on the fence from all who are particpating without being overzealous. It's appreciated.
There are many variables that will make such a theory a reality.
Population: How many people will be PvP'ing and dying enough to constitue the economy? How will they afford it if they keep dying? How much will be consumed in your average fight?
The killing and dying will create the economy not vice versa. A crappy PvPer who keeps dying may have to farm NPC's to finance his PvPing. I don't know how much will be used per fight, but armor and weapons degenerate.
Mules: If everyone has a mule, who needs a crafter? Is Darkfall a one-character-per-server setup? Or can everyone have one? My fear is if it's TOO easy to craft, why would anyone look to someone else for their needs?
From my understanding DF is one character per server. A mule "NPC hireling" can harvest, but nothing is mentioned about crafting. Also an NPC hireling is paid a wage, according to it's skills. So the smarter your mule, the more he costs to operate. Essentially cutting into your profits.
Resource Gathering: How will it be done? Will ganking prevent and frustrate most crafters from advancing?
There is no fun crafting if all resources are at your feet. Essentially then you are just clicking pixels to combine items. If you are afraid of dying, walk around naked while gathering materials. Every crafter will face the same problem, so no one will have an advantage.
Population (And density), consumption, and resource gathering are all key issues in regards to crafting, almost moreso than WHAT can be crafted.. I've heard much more about PvP and combat from Darkfall and posts on various forums than I've really heard about anything else.
Dark fall promises a "virtually limitless item creator system". This should make any hardcore crafter hot and bothered. The crafting is supposedly something never seen before in a MMO, hence the secrecy behind it. Or not.
In the end, to some degree, crafting NEEDS to be boring. It NEEDS to be dull, because if everyone can do it, no one needs it.
Most people dislike crafting, as it is not immediately rewarding. For a crafter, a small change like being able to organize your bank is a break through in crafting. For a non crafter they don't get it. Essentially its the same as putting lipstick on a pig. Its still a pig to them.
I'm not saying Darkfall may or may not have the answers to these problems, and until they really discuss it at length, then I'm quite content to maintain a wait-and-see approach, although I do find the disucssion fascinating. PvP is the heart of Darkfall, that is certain, but where the crafter fits into the grand scheme of things isn't quite clear, at least to me.
I'm not a Darfall Fanboi either. PvP may be the heart for Darkfall, but crafting will always be the backbone.
Ok, I'm going to say what I believe about Darkfall. I believe Darkfall:
A) Exists.
Is basically finished.
C) Will release with 12 months at the VERY most.
D) Will not be the embodiment of the hopes and dreams of the MMO Community that it's fans would like to believe it's going to be.
I believe Darkfall will go down (by which I mean disappear) in history as yet another not enough budget, not enough manpower, undercooked MMO that had some good ideas but never stood a chance of making good on them.
Personally I don't see why this is anything but YET ANOTHER "Like WoW, BUT..." game, which just about every MMO developped since WoW (it's self basically: Take the essential elements of EQ, strip them down, simplify them and then polish the crap out it") has been...
WoW... but with open PvP and corpse looting!
WoW... but without ANY instancing!
WoW... but with RvR!
WoW, but Lord of The Rings!
WoW, but with mild nudity and decapitations!
WoW, but with Player Housing!
You know what the problem with these games is? WoW is what it is and does what it does, and does it well and doesn't pretend to do anything it doesn't. Every MMO since then has basically done a half-ass job of doing what WoW does, and tacked on a half-assed attempt at adding gimics that WoW doesn't do, resulting in two halves of an ass, otherwise known as complete ass.
Even the actual promises made by Adventurine don't represent ANY major phliosophical change to the MMORPG genre, at best it's Taco Bell vs. McDonalds.
WoW with Friendly fire so you can't just jump around and AE like a tard or arrow through your friends
WoW with collision detection providing for tactical group combat
WoW without alot of the squalling whiner community instead we substitute an upbeat mature player base
WoW without gear dependence
Sheesh this doesn't sound much like WoW anymore. I'm not quite sure why ... Can't put my finger on it ... OH WAIT I GOT IT! It's NOT WOW!!! Mmmm making my mouth water already though it smells like they're grilling up a juicy steak to me!
This is too fun lets try a few more =D !!
WoW without classes and the restrictions they place on the player
WoW with player created cities
WoW without ridiculously sized weapons and further cartoon-like graphics
the way i see Darkfall's release will be like eve's.. the game looks quite playable from the new videos.. and it will be a great game, over time I think it will reach 200k subs maybe more eventually..
I think DF will gradully gain numbers instead of have a crap load at launch and then loose them all very quickly.. like AOC..
This will work out great for the devs and the players however.. 200k subs or even 100k subs would make this game a commercial success and worth the investment for the devs, and would keep servers very healthily populated for us players...
its going to be a great game and I'm very excited to play it.. it is a niche game, so is eve, and to a smaller extent so is WAR...
And I hope you are trolling because if not your people postin that stuff seem to be idiots.
It will draw on the old SWG players, EVE online players, WoW players who want something a little more meaningul out of pvp and are tired of that game, and disaffected WAR players who have been tricked into that game only to realise it is a massive scenario grind for items.
Comparisons to potbs are wrong imo.
PoTBS had me filled with hope, but it was a half arsed, non stop instancing, dull, class and faction based boring game full of bugs with disjointed combat.
It had copy paste towns which with about 20 instances each in them and never made its mind up about if it wanted to be full pvp or not therefore ended up with again, a half arsed compromise that made neither camp of players happy.
So it filled no niche, it just fell through the gap in between niche and mainstream and into oblivion.
I think you people are really being over optimistic with this game. They haven't shown us a single proof that the game really exists and people are already talking about subscription numbers. The Darkfall company also didn't chose very wisely a release date because it's way too close to WoTLK launch and if Darkfall really goes out then it'll fail simply because of that. The best move they could do is to merge with Blizzard and maybe implement some WoW kickass features on their game so maybe they can last a few months after release.
I will say this again, The christmas launch Window is widely accepted by many companies as a Great Launch date for many varieties of products especialy in the Entertainment Sector. Also DarkFall and WoW are not competing games. Non-linear vs Linear. Many people that enjoy Linear games do not enjoy non linear ones and vise versa. If they did add some WoW features it would kill the game. Those that like sandbox's would leave because of the WoW features and those that liked WoW would leave because of the Sandbox features.
I don't think the MMORPG market needs games any less linear than WoW now. The gamers are satisfied with World of Warcraft features and they'll be even happier after WoTLK comes out and starts a gaming revolution with its countless new features and polishes. Also I disagree when you say that Darkfall and WoW aren't competing games. Darkfall is stealing many features from WoW (like non-linear gameplay, open pvp) and of course WoW isn't going to stand still. I see that you must never have played WoW in order to claim that it is a linear game (unless you meant Darkfall is linear, then I can fully understand you). Maybe Darkfall could turn in to be some WoW servers with different rules. That would probably be the best bet for its company to go for.
This just boggled my mind a little. How can you compare WoW with Darkfall? The only thing the two have in common more or less, is a Fantasy setting.
Although I am getting the feeling you are making a joke here.
If not, I'm really confused how someone can even remotely compare WoW and DF.
Why would it be a joke? Just observe all those Ultima Online worshippers who say they can't wait for Darkfall and that they need its features. What they fail to remember is that Ultima Online had 150k subscriptions while World of Warcraft has over 11 million (and will hit even more after WoTLK comes out). How can a game made for 150 thousend people really stand against a 11 million subcribers titan? They're highly comparable because Darkfall is getting many of WoW's main features and both of them are games from the same genre.
Also, during all my years as a happy World of Warcraft player, I've met several Ultima Online ex-players who are more than happy with WoW, so I don't even see Darkfall having 150k subscriptions (if it really launches).
I can't believe I didn't see your original post at first..... There's no way you can be serious.......
I have to admit once I read it I was speechless for a full minute. I couldn't believe that claims to have played WoW can say anything even remotely close to what you have said.... I mean you either have no idea what WoW is or like or you have no idea what a sandbox is. It's one ot the other on this and you can not say otherwise after you previous statements. Now that I have collected my thoughts after reading your post and retrieved my jaw from the floor I can reply.
I am going to start with some deffinitions.
A game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots. Some games feature both linear and nonlinear elements, and some games offer a sandbox mode that allows players to explore the game environment independently from the game's main objectives.
A game that is noticeably nonlinear will sometimes be described as open-ended or as a sandbox.[1][2][3][4] Nonlinear games are sometimes described as providing emergent gameplay.[4]
A large amount of World of Warcraft revolves around questing. DarkFall does not.it's a sandbox where you do what you want where you want however you want.
WoW has instance's. DarkFall is a large seamless world.
WoW is level based and class based. DarkFall has no levels or classes, You pick skills for your char (any mixture you want) and build them up by using them. This allows for things like a 2 handed axe wielding healer that wears heavy armor and can use fire magics, there are any number of templates yo ucan make from around 500 skills and 700 spells. You can even base your char off a specific class in game or not if you so desired.
As far as PvP goes DarkFall has FFA (Free for All) PvP with full loot. This means you can kill anyone anywhere at any time and loot everything they have on them. As far as I know WoW does not.
WoW has 2 factions, Horde and Alliance. Here is how they intereact from WoW's website
Can players trade with members of the opposite faction?
No. In general, you cannot trade with players of the opposing faction. However, you can place items up for auction at the neutral auction houses at Everlook, Gadgetzan, and Booty Bay. Players from either faction can bid on these items, meaning you can buy and sell with opposing players at this neutral auction house.
Can I group or communicate with members of the opposite faction?
You cannot form groups with members of the opposite faction, nor can you understand their language - making interpersonal communication with the other faction difficult. Default emotes such as /laugh, /nod, /salute, and /taunt will be your only means of direct communication.
In Darkfall There are 3 factions that exist in the exact same world at the Exact same time. They may group and chat and trade and interact in anyway they see fit. The factions are
1) Human, Mirdain, and Dwarf
2) Orc and Mahirim
3) Alfar
These factions can visit each others territory if they are bold. They may wear disguises and sneak into other factions towns. They may party with each other. This is no where near how WoW has there factions setup.
Moving on, As far as I know WoW has no player housing nor can they build clan cities ect. You can in DarkFall.
WoW has an invisy sneak skill, DarkFall does not making stealth truely skill based.
In WoW Gear makes the player, in DarkFall actually gaming skill will make the player.
This could go on and on and on so I am going to stop here and point out the ONLY things WoW and DarkFall have in commen are Some of the Races, The fact there Both MMORPG's and lastly that they both are High Fantasy MMO's. Other than that there are no similarities between DarkFall and WoW. I mean how can you possibly come up with the assumption DarkFall and WoW are anything even remotely similar? Please make a list of similarities because from what I know about WoW and DarkFall I see next to none.
In no way was this meant as a flame, but you are so far base on what you said that I simply could not believe you meant it till I read your follow up post. You are wrong and I am sorry. WoW is as much like DarkFall as the Earth is like the Sun.
Sure, DF will get released. It even has a good chance of making money, since they have only spent $10 million. The concept is niche market, but that market isnt too small for Darkfall to succeed. The game looks great on paper, and it always has. The videos look good too!
Right now, it is all about execution. If the game actually is technically solid, it will be a success. If the game fails to deliver major advertised features, lags, crashes, or is exploitable, it will be a failure. This is not the first FPS-style sandbox for me, as I played Roma Victor. Most of you likely have not even heard of it, because it failed to deliver on it's promise. We still have to see about Darkfall.
i believe it'll come out but it wont be anything crazy awesome in my opinion.' I see it like Pirates of the Burning Sea. It'll have some population in the first month or so but then it'll be one of those cliche low populated type of games where only the most severe followers of the franchise/idea/premise will be playing. Other examples are Matrix Online, Face of Mankind, Neocon, etc.
^ Here is the winner. On the $. The game will be a C grade game and be forgotten after the first 3-4 months...... and no one will ever try to make another game like it...
i believe it'll come out but it wont be anything crazy awesome in my opinion.' I see it like Pirates of the Burning Sea. It'll have some population in the first month or so but then it'll be one of those cliche low populated type of games where only the most severe followers of the franchise/idea/premise will be playing. Other examples are Matrix Online, Face of Mankind, Neocon, etc.
^ Here is the winner. On the $. The game will be a C grade game and be forgotten after the first 3-4 months...... and no one will ever try to make another game like it...
Mortal online......
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
maybe mortal online will be the first mmorpg to successfully utilize the unreal engine for a mmorpg, or maybe it will fail like the other mmorpgs that used that engine like Vanguard and Fury.
What is mortal online though? I dont think there is too much info available... They basicly say the same stuff that DF has been saying all along, but it is not very detailed information. Sounds more like they are saying what players want to hear.
Some questions: 1) Will it have intances, I am sure it will and I dont like it. 2) Player run economy + cities? 3) Siegeing? 4) Ships, sea warfare?
Anyways, maybe its on purpose they keep the info to a minimum and vague at best. Maybe it will rox, who knows, but we will see.
AoC had like what... 1 mil copies sold? I mean I know there was bluebie servers but a lot of people played on the PvP servers. Only problem, AoC just got worse and couldn't handle the class balance aspect... so they fail.
The great thing about Darkfall, is it supports player cities with player run guards and others to kill any threat of outside hostility. The biggest/most rich guild will have a virtual safe zone, that is just their play style. So the arguement, "Full PvP = RPer/PvErs worst nightmare anywhere in Darkfall", is false. With recall/portals they wont have to travel over vast parts of the land and get ganked by road side hooligans. The game will be more PvE and RPer friendly then a lot of people think.
So... Sandbox, PvP, RPer friendly, PvEer friendly, skill system, worthwhile crafting, and basically a world we're allowed to do whatever we want on.... You can't tell me Darkfall, if good, will not be the 2nd biggest mmo in the USA and have less then a million subs. The game just has to live up to what we where promised.
maybe mortal online will be the first mmorpg to successfully utilize the unreal engine for a mmorpg, or maybe it will fail like the other mmorpgs that used that engine like Vanguard and Fury. What is mortal online though? I dont think there is too much info available... They basicly say the same stuff that DF has been saying all along, but it is not very detailed information. Sounds more like they are saying what players want to hear. Some questions:
1) Will it have intances, I am sure it will and I dont like it.
2) Player run economy + cities?
3) Siegeing?
4) Ships, sea warfare? Anyways, maybe its on purpose they keep the info to a minimum and vague at best. Maybe it will rox, who knows, but we will see.
Caves and dungeons in DarkFall will be instanced too but not to a team ..everyone can enter but it will be an instance...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Comments
First, thank you all for the calm discussion to someone who is on the fence from all who are particpating without being overzealous. It's appreciated.
There are many variables that will make such a theory a reality.
Population: How many people will be PvP'ing and dying enough to constitue the economy? How will they afford it if they keep dying? How much will be consumed in your average fight?
Mules: If everyone has a mule, who needs a crafter? Is Darkfall a one-character-per-server setup? Or can everyone have one? My fear is if it's TOO easy to craft, why would anyone look to someone else for their needs?
Resource Gathering: How will it be done? Will ganking prevent and frustrate most crafters from advancing?
Population (And density), consumption, and resource gathering are all key issues in regards to crafting, almost moreso than WHAT can be crafted.. I've heard much more about PvP and combat from Darkfall and posts on various forums than I've really heard about anything else.
In the end, to some degree, crafting NEEDS to be boring. It NEEDS to be dull, because if everyone can do it, no one needs it.
I'm not saying Darkfall may or may not have the answers to these problems, and until they really discuss it at length, then I'm quite content to maintain a wait-and-see approach, although I do find the disucssion fascinating. PvP is the heart of Darkfall, that is certain, but where the crafter fits into the grand scheme of things isn't quite clear, at least to me.
Well just a few small points but they say they dont want people to keep gear forever, it will deteriorate with use i guess and repairs so the crafters will be needed to keep everyone happy, especially if your in a big guild then the crafters will be a great asset. Also apparently there are no npc's that can repair your armour and weapons, only player crafters can which is pretty cool.
Full looting ffa pvp....will be a nitch game only......and thats ok. I do wish they had some safe areas and factions pvp.They say they won't..so.Look at the hue and cry from ffa pvp in AOC.You will see the same thing in DF.For those that like that...it will be heaven(assuming the have decent marketing and customer support).
Interesting. This definitely facilitates the need for crafters. But unfortunately, it raises another concern - Advancement.
Part of skilling up is making items you don't need. Will NPC's be able to purchase items I make in order to skill up? Will I be able to recycle them for materials? How much skill can be gainned from repairing?
Questions, all. I'm sure no one has a definite answer yet (Unless of course, someone can point me the answer to said questions, of course!), but I'd certainly like to see the Devs talk more about it.
Well it kinda does have safe areas, just not 100% safe, hehe. People of the same faction as you will get faction hits if they kill you and guards may attack them. Also some factions are hostile to each other so theres your factional pvp.
I always have to laugh when people try to say DF is not interesting. We have already seen that a MMO without features can get ten millions of players.
And somesay that "DF seems to be all about combat"......as if WoW is not about combat?? And there you dont even have a option to not go into combat!
I really dont know where we are going with this never ending denial? Have we come to the point when we will look back, 30 years from, now and say WoW was the high mark of computergames? That a MMO that give the players more then one option was guaranteed to fail?
Darkfall will find the players that want more. And i would be so daring and say that they will be enough for the game to survive.
Lol, Bodypass go back under your bridge or better still back to the WAR forums, they are more deserving of your attention than we are.
Interesting. This definitely facilitates the need for crafters. But unfortunately, it raises another concern - Advancement.
Part of skilling up is making items you don't need. Will NPC's be able to purchase items I make in order to skill up? Will I be able to recycle them for materials? How much skill can be gainned from repairing?
Questions, all. I'm sure no one has a definite answer yet (Unless of course, someone can point me the answer to said questions, of course!), but I'd certainly like to see the Devs talk more about it.
Well i dont think it will be like other games because you have to remember that items will be flowing around between players all the time, because its full loot and because even npc's can loot, people will be wanting armour and weapons from crafters all the time and so pretty much any items you make by the sounds of things will be useful to someone out there.
I kind of hope npc's cant purchase your made goods because it would be nice to see people going to actual player crafter's for goods, i dont know if you can recycle stuff for materials, who knows about skill gained from repairing but i doubt it will be that much.
I think considering players are the only ones who can repair it sounds like, at a prediction, that people will go to player crafters for the weapons and armour, i just think it would be a little silly if they made it so you have to go to a player to repair but you can just buy any player crafters goods from npc's. Perhaps npc's are mainly just for selling npc monster stuff too. Who knows though.
First, thank you all for the calm discussion to someone who is on the fence from all who are particpating without being overzealous. It's appreciated.
There are many variables that will make such a theory a reality.
Population: How many people will be PvP'ing and dying enough to constitue the economy? How will they afford it if they keep dying? How much will be consumed in your average fight?
The killing and dying will create the economy not vice versa. A crappy PvPer who keeps dying may have to farm NPC's to finance his PvPing. I don't know how much will be used per fight, but armor and weapons degenerate.
Mules: If everyone has a mule, who needs a crafter? Is Darkfall a one-character-per-server setup? Or can everyone have one? My fear is if it's TOO easy to craft, why would anyone look to someone else for their needs?
From my understanding DF is one character per server. A mule "NPC hireling" can harvest, but nothing is mentioned about crafting. Also an NPC hireling is paid a wage, according to it's skills. So the smarter your mule, the more he costs to operate. Essentially cutting into your profits.
Resource Gathering: How will it be done? Will ganking prevent and frustrate most crafters from advancing?
There is no fun crafting if all resources are at your feet. Essentially then you are just clicking pixels to combine items. If you are afraid of dying, walk around naked while gathering materials. Every crafter will face the same problem, so no one will have an advantage.
Population (And density), consumption, and resource gathering are all key issues in regards to crafting, almost moreso than WHAT can be crafted.. I've heard much more about PvP and combat from Darkfall and posts on various forums than I've really heard about anything else.
Dark fall promises a "virtually limitless item creator system". This should make any hardcore crafter hot and bothered. The crafting is supposedly something never seen before in a MMO, hence the secrecy behind it. Or not.
In the end, to some degree, crafting NEEDS to be boring. It NEEDS to be dull, because if everyone can do it, no one needs it.
Most people dislike crafting, as it is not immediately rewarding. For a crafter, a small change like being able to organize your bank is a break through in crafting. For a non crafter they don't get it. Essentially its the same as putting lipstick on a pig. Its still a pig to them.
I'm not saying Darkfall may or may not have the answers to these problems, and until they really discuss it at length, then I'm quite content to maintain a wait-and-see approach, although I do find the disucssion fascinating. PvP is the heart of Darkfall, that is certain, but where the crafter fits into the grand scheme of things isn't quite clear, at least to me.
I'm not a Darfall Fanboi either. PvP may be the heart for Darkfall, but crafting will always be the backbone.
Watch Led Zeppelin, Darkfall Tribute
Watch Johnny Cash, Darkfall Tribute
Ok, I'm going to say what I believe about Darkfall. I believe Darkfall:
A) Exists.
C) Will release with 12 months at the VERY most.
D) Will not be the embodiment of the hopes and dreams of the MMO Community that it's fans would like to believe it's going to be.
I believe Darkfall will go down (by which I mean disappear) in history as yet another not enough budget, not enough manpower, undercooked MMO that had some good ideas but never stood a chance of making good on them.
Personally I don't see why this is anything but YET ANOTHER "Like WoW, BUT..." game, which just about every MMO developped since WoW (it's self basically: Take the essential elements of EQ, strip them down, simplify them and then polish the crap out it") has been...
WoW... but with open PvP and corpse looting!
WoW... but without ANY instancing!
WoW... but with RvR!
WoW, but Lord of The Rings!
WoW, but with mild nudity and decapitations!
WoW, but with Player Housing!
You know what the problem with these games is? WoW is what it is and does what it does, and does it well and doesn't pretend to do anything it doesn't. Every MMO since then has basically done a half-ass job of doing what WoW does, and tacked on a half-assed attempt at adding gimics that WoW doesn't do, resulting in two halves of an ass, otherwise known as complete ass.
Even the actual promises made by Adventurine don't represent ANY major phliosophical change to the MMORPG genre, at best it's Taco Bell vs. McDonalds.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
You forgot a few...
WoW with Naval Combat
WoW with FPS style gameplay
WoW with Friendly fire so you can't just jump around and AE like a tard or arrow through your friends
WoW with collision detection providing for tactical group combat
WoW without alot of the squalling whiner community instead we substitute an upbeat mature player base
WoW without gear dependence
Sheesh this doesn't sound much like WoW anymore. I'm not quite sure why ... Can't put my finger on it ... OH WAIT I GOT IT! It's NOT WOW!!! Mmmm making my mouth water already though it smells like they're grilling up a juicy steak to me!
This is too fun lets try a few more =D !!
WoW without classes and the restrictions they place on the player
WoW with player created cities
WoW without ridiculously sized weapons and further cartoon-like graphics
Good post OP...
the way i see Darkfall's release will be like eve's.. the game looks quite playable from the new videos.. and it will be a great game, over time I think it will reach 200k subs maybe more eventually..
I think DF will gradully gain numbers instead of have a crap load at launch and then loose them all very quickly.. like AOC..
This will work out great for the devs and the players however.. 200k subs or even 100k subs would make this game a commercial success and worth the investment for the devs, and would keep servers very healthily populated for us players...
its going to be a great game and I'm very excited to play it.. it is a niche game, so is eve, and to a smaller extent so is WAR...
Remember Old School Ultima Online
This game is nothing like WoW.
Don't feed these trolls.
And I hope you are trolling because if not your people postin that stuff seem to be idiots.
It will draw on the old SWG players, EVE online players, WoW players who want something a little more meaningul out of pvp and are tired of that game, and disaffected WAR players who have been tricked into that game only to realise it is a massive scenario grind for items.
Comparisons to potbs are wrong imo.
PoTBS had me filled with hope, but it was a half arsed, non stop instancing, dull, class and faction based boring game full of bugs with disjointed combat.
It had copy paste towns which with about 20 instances each in them and never made its mind up about if it wanted to be full pvp or not therefore ended up with again, a half arsed compromise that made neither camp of players happy.
So it filled no niche, it just fell through the gap in between niche and mainstream and into oblivion.
they said they could do mini expansion if the wanted they didnt say they was going too
I will say this again, The christmas launch Window is widely accepted by many companies as a Great Launch date for many varieties of products especialy in the Entertainment Sector. Also DarkFall and WoW are not competing games. Non-linear vs Linear. Many people that enjoy Linear games do not enjoy non linear ones and vise versa. If they did add some WoW features it would kill the game. Those that like sandbox's would leave because of the WoW features and those that liked WoW would leave because of the Sandbox features.
I don't think the MMORPG market needs games any less linear than WoW now. The gamers are satisfied with World of Warcraft features and they'll be even happier after WoTLK comes out and starts a gaming revolution with its countless new features and polishes. Also I disagree when you say that Darkfall and WoW aren't competing games. Darkfall is stealing many features from WoW (like non-linear gameplay, open pvp) and of course WoW isn't going to stand still. I see that you must never have played WoW in order to claim that it is a linear game (unless you meant Darkfall is linear, then I can fully understand you). Maybe Darkfall could turn in to be some WoW servers with different rules. That would probably be the best bet for its company to go for.
This just boggled my mind a little. How can you compare WoW with Darkfall? The only thing the two have in common more or less, is a Fantasy setting.
Although I am getting the feeling you are making a joke here.
If not, I'm really confused how someone can even remotely compare WoW and DF.
Why would it be a joke? Just observe all those Ultima Online worshippers who say they can't wait for Darkfall and that they need its features. What they fail to remember is that Ultima Online had 150k subscriptions while World of Warcraft has over 11 million (and will hit even more after WoTLK comes out). How can a game made for 150 thousend people really stand against a 11 million subcribers titan? They're highly comparable because Darkfall is getting many of WoW's main features and both of them are games from the same genre.
Also, during all my years as a happy World of Warcraft player, I've met several Ultima Online ex-players who are more than happy with WoW, so I don't even see Darkfall having 150k subscriptions (if it really launches).
I can't believe I didn't see your original post at first..... There's no way you can be serious.......
I have to admit once I read it I was speechless for a full minute. I couldn't believe that claims to have played WoW can say anything even remotely close to what you have said.... I mean you either have no idea what WoW is or like or you have no idea what a sandbox is. It's one ot the other on this and you can not say otherwise after you previous statements. Now that I have collected my thoughts after reading your post and retrieved my jaw from the floor I can reply.
I am going to start with some deffinitions.
A game with nonlinear gameplay presents players with challenges that can be completed in a number of different sequences. Whereas a more linear game will confront a player with a fixed sequence of challenges, a less linear game will allow greater player freedom. For example, a nonlinear game may permit multiple sequences to finish the game, a choice between paths to victory, or optional side-quests and subplots. Some games feature both linear and nonlinear elements, and some games offer a sandbox mode that allows players to explore the game environment independently from the game's main objectives.
A game that is noticeably nonlinear will sometimes be described as open-ended or as a sandbox.[1][2][3][4] Nonlinear games are sometimes described as providing emergent gameplay.[4]
A large amount of World of Warcraft revolves around questing. DarkFall does not.it's a sandbox where you do what you want where you want however you want.
WoW has instance's. DarkFall is a large seamless world.
WoW is level based and class based. DarkFall has no levels or classes, You pick skills for your char (any mixture you want) and build them up by using them. This allows for things like a 2 handed axe wielding healer that wears heavy armor and can use fire magics, there are any number of templates yo ucan make from around 500 skills and 700 spells. You can even base your char off a specific class in game or not if you so desired.
As far as PvP goes DarkFall has FFA (Free for All) PvP with full loot. This means you can kill anyone anywhere at any time and loot everything they have on them. As far as I know WoW does not.
WoW has 2 factions, Horde and Alliance. Here is how they intereact from WoW's website
Can players trade with members of the opposite faction?
No. In general, you cannot trade with players of the opposing faction. However, you can place items up for auction at the neutral auction houses at Everlook, Gadgetzan, and Booty Bay. Players from either faction can bid on these items, meaning you can buy and sell with opposing players at this neutral auction house.
Can I group or communicate with members of the opposite faction?
You cannot form groups with members of the opposite faction, nor can you understand their language - making interpersonal communication with the other faction difficult. Default emotes such as /laugh, /nod, /salute, and /taunt will be your only means of direct communication.
In Darkfall There are 3 factions that exist in the exact same world at the Exact same time. They may group and chat and trade and interact in anyway they see fit. The factions are
1) Human, Mirdain, and Dwarf
2) Orc and Mahirim
3) Alfar
These factions can visit each others territory if they are bold. They may wear disguises and sneak into other factions towns. They may party with each other. This is no where near how WoW has there factions setup.
Moving on, As far as I know WoW has no player housing nor can they build clan cities ect. You can in DarkFall.
WoW has an invisy sneak skill, DarkFall does not making stealth truely skill based.
In WoW Gear makes the player, in DarkFall actually gaming skill will make the player.
This could go on and on and on so I am going to stop here and point out the ONLY things WoW and DarkFall have in commen are Some of the Races, The fact there Both MMORPG's and lastly that they both are High Fantasy MMO's. Other than that there are no similarities between DarkFall and WoW. I mean how can you possibly come up with the assumption DarkFall and WoW are anything even remotely similar? Please make a list of similarities because from what I know about WoW and DarkFall I see next to none.
In no way was this meant as a flame, but you are so far base on what you said that I simply could not believe you meant it till I read your follow up post. You are wrong and I am sorry. WoW is as much like DarkFall as the Earth is like the Sun.
They said they can do mini expansions once a month in the form of patches-updates and a Full expansion once a year which is there schedule.
Sure, DF will get released. It even has a good chance of making money, since they have only spent $10 million. The concept is niche market, but that market isnt too small for Darkfall to succeed. The game looks great on paper, and it always has. The videos look good too!
Right now, it is all about execution. If the game actually is technically solid, it will be a success. If the game fails to deliver major advertised features, lags, crashes, or is exploitable, it will be a failure. This is not the first FPS-style sandbox for me, as I played Roma Victor. Most of you likely have not even heard of it, because it failed to deliver on it's promise. We still have to see about Darkfall.
Eh.
Comparing DF and WoW is like comparing Operation: Flashpoint and DOOM. Just cause they are the same genre doesn't mean they are anything alike.
^ Here is the winner. On the $. The game will be a C grade game and be forgotten after the first 3-4 months...... and no one will ever try to make another game like it...
^ Here is the winner. On the $. The game will be a C grade game and be forgotten after the first 3-4 months...... and no one will ever try to make another game like it...
Mortal online......
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Yeah Mortal Online looks like it may have some potential.
maybe mortal online will be the first mmorpg to successfully utilize the unreal engine for a mmorpg, or maybe it will fail like the other mmorpgs that used that engine like Vanguard and Fury.
What is mortal online though? I dont think there is too much info available... They basicly say the same stuff that DF has been saying all along, but it is not very detailed information. Sounds more like they are saying what players want to hear.
Some questions:
1) Will it have intances, I am sure it will and I dont like it.
2) Player run economy + cities?
3) Siegeing?
4) Ships, sea warfare?
Anyways, maybe its on purpose they keep the info to a minimum and vague at best. Maybe it will rox, who knows, but we will see.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
AoC had like what... 1 mil copies sold? I mean I know there was bluebie servers but a lot of people played on the PvP servers. Only problem, AoC just got worse and couldn't handle the class balance aspect... so they fail.
The great thing about Darkfall, is it supports player cities with player run guards and others to kill any threat of outside hostility. The biggest/most rich guild will have a virtual safe zone, that is just their play style. So the arguement, "Full PvP = RPer/PvErs worst nightmare anywhere in Darkfall", is false. With recall/portals they wont have to travel over vast parts of the land and get ganked by road side hooligans. The game will be more PvE and RPer friendly then a lot of people think.
So... Sandbox, PvP, RPer friendly, PvEer friendly, skill system, worthwhile crafting, and basically a world we're allowed to do whatever we want on.... You can't tell me Darkfall, if good, will not be the 2nd biggest mmo in the USA and have less then a million subs. The game just has to live up to what we where promised.
www.scarybadguys.com
Stop.
Stop comparing darkfall to all of it's predescesors.
Darkfall is it's VERY own unique entity. There is NOTHING even near darkfall in the amount of features and freedom.
Saying it's just like this or will be just like that game because this-and-that is retarded speculation.
UO (preT2A) compares....
except for the whole destroying player towns thing.
oh my goose it's Moose
Caves and dungeons in DarkFall will be instanced too but not to a team ..everyone can enter but it will be an instance...
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$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
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