Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

War is on the decline, want to know why?

1235»

Comments

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by Aethios


    Psychology studies have shown that if you reward a person for doing something, they are compelled to do it more often. However, if those rewards are taken away at a later time, their interest in that activity drops to almost zero, even if they previously enjoyed that activity a great deal.
    I think people are so used to playing WoW for the last few years, and so used to getting rewarded for every silly little thing, so now that the opportunity to have some real fun (but without all the other rewards) has presented itself, nobody knows what to do.

     

    While that study might be true, I don't think it applies to what is happening here.

    In MMOs with levels, the primary driving force that most people strive for is moving the exeperience bar forward.  Rewards other than experience are a secondary concern which is why people tend to congregate around activities that offer the path of least resistance.  Scenarios in this game for example.  The fact that scenarios also offer decent item rewards makes them a no brainer and eliminates much of the incentive of other activities.

     

    Just like that study you cite shows people will stop doing activites they enjoy if the incentives are removed, people will also do activities they hate if the incentives are better than anything else. 

     

    This is part of the reason I don't like the whole level based system.

     

     

  • ArckenArcken Member Posts: 2,431
    Originally posted by Aethios


    Psychology studies have shown that if you reward a person for doing something, they are compelled to do it more often. However, if those rewards are taken away at a later time, their interest in that activity drops to almost zero, even if they previously enjoyed that activity a great deal.
    I think people are so used to playing WoW for the last few years, and so used to getting rewarded for every silly little thing, so now that the opportunity to have some real fun (but without all the other rewards) has presented itself, nobody knows what to do.



     

    Hmm never thought of this, but it makes sense.

  • kwaikwai Member UncommonPosts: 825
    Originally posted by Aethios


    Psychology studies have shown that if you reward a person for doing something, they are compelled to do it more often. However, if those rewards are taken away at a later time, their interest in that activity drops to almost zero, even if they previously enjoyed that activity a great deal.
    I think people are so used to playing WoW for the last few years, and so used to getting rewarded for every silly little thing, so now that the opportunity to have some real fun (but without all the other rewards) has presented itself, nobody knows what to do.



     

    That is quite true, but most game developers dont think that way, their concern is money, not your psyche :)

  • TalinTalin Member UncommonPosts: 923

    WAR is what it is... straight to the fun. It doesn't make you:

     

    1. Wait for hours for a group to experience content

    2. Wait for hours to experience PvP

    3. Run around for hours to get to a location where you can do something

     

    Yes, it doesn't have some of the features of other games, and down the road, I would imagine they would be added. What they do have is a game that cuts out the "crap" and gets you right into the action. they may need to enrich the experience to increase longevity, but for now, it is my game of choice.

  • sandboxysandboxy Member Posts: 153

    OP is spot on, WAR is shallow. Mythic can, and will, take steps to fix this, but I wonder what will be destroyed while doing it. The game has to change tremendously in order to... unshallow it.

  • SouvecSouvec Member UncommonPosts: 693
    Originally posted by sandboxy


    OP is spot on, WAR is shallow. Mythic can, and will, take steps to fix this, but I wonder what will be destroyed while doing it. The game has to change tremendously in order to... unshallow it.

     

    The only people who say WAR is shallow have no idea truly what is in-game.  Not everything is as plain as day and at the surface, as there is much to unlock.  I'm not just talking the Tomes as well.  As long as the game continues to keep its focus on RvR, people as a whole create a brand new game everytime I log on.

    This alone... a brand new experience everyday is far from shallow in comparison to a game that is the same old boring treadmill.

  • JenneroflokJenneroflok Member Posts: 126
    Originally posted by Rubakai


    I agree and disagree.
     
    The RvR and "World" element are missing in WAR at the minute but this is something that can be put right and I guarantee it will be, hopefully sooner rather than later. Progression through levels is also a bit shallow, although no game will be successful at this until they return to the system used in Utlima Online where you could do almost anything if you put the time and the effort into using that skill (thats the best method)
     
    I think WAR does everything else right and i love the combat and will be continuing to play it through all the beautiful updates (hopefully)
     
    What i dont agree with is most people's idea at this site about "sandbox" games, like that is some sort of idea..."make a sandbox game it will be brilliant and millions will subscribe". Thats rubbish, that is not an idea, and will not happen anytime soon. You have to have boundaries to a game, some form of goal and the quicker people realise this and strive for other ways to achieve this the better. I dont want a company to just chuck as many half-baked ideas into a game so someone can "do loads of things"

     

    You know, I agree,  there has only been 2 sandbox games I have played,  The Original Ultima Online (I was free to play a Bowyer/Lumberjack/Archer) and the PRE CU Starwars Galaxies.  Game Companies need to get away from this leveling system that is the current WOW mindset.  That being Said, I am having Fun in War, simple for the RvR aspect of the game.

  • sandboxysandboxy Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by Souvec

    Originally posted by sandboxy


    OP is spot on, WAR is shallow. Mythic can, and will, take steps to fix this, but I wonder what will be destroyed while doing it. The game has to change tremendously in order to... unshallow it.

     

    The only people who say WAR is shallow have no idea truly what is in-game.  Not everything is as plain as day and at the surface, as there is much to unlock.  I'm not just talking the Tomes as well.  As long as the game continues to keep its focus on RvR, people as a whole create a brand new game everytime I log on.

    This alone... a brand new experience everyday is far from shallow in comparison to a game that is the same old boring treadmill.



     

    Yes, RvR. Playing against another human being does that, gives you challenge and new experince every time. But I get that same thing from any FPS game, WAR is supposed to be something much more, an MMORPG. It delivers MMO (well, sort of. Lots of people, sure. But no community), but RPG is where it fails hard.

  • TalinTalin Member UncommonPosts: 923



    Yes, RvR. Playing against another human being does that, gives you challenge and new experince every time. But I get that same thing from any FPS game, WAR is supposed to be something much more, an MMORPG. It delivers MMO (well, sort of. Lots of people, sure. But no community), but RPG is where it fails hard.

    I completely disagree. Between my guild of 130 people, and the increased player interaction added through "global" channels, the game feels more alive and active than most MMORPGs now.

    Two weeks ago, if you were a solo player in WAR I would have agreed. Now, the ability to interact (and the increased focus on ORvR), the community is shaping up dramatically.

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453

    I have to agree with most of the OPs post.  For me its not about the 'PvP vs PvE' argument.  WAR has made a massive mistake in my book.  They have targeted not one demographic group but EVERY singe demographic group.  It reminds me of restaurants that serve Italian, Greek, Indian and Chinese food from the same menu. You eat there but no matter which cuisine you try, you know there are much better restaurants that make only one kind of cuisine. 

    There are elements of WAR that I really like but it like an early post said, its like eating vanilla ice cream.  The world doesn't make me want to log in and roam around and feel like I am part of it.  The combat is way too simple and if I want a PvP centric game with great combat I can go to Team Fortress or any other uber FPS for a fix.  So then I turned to crafting in WAR..maybe that was amazing..nope..simple again and bland.  For me they tried to put their eggs in every basket and personally they would have been better off aiming for a hard core audience and pushing the game one direction. 

    I so wanted to love this game but in my 25 years of gaming and probably my 10th MMO, WAR is the only game that has really left an empty pit in my stomach.  Even PotBS got 3 months out of me...

     

  • YunbeiYunbei Member Posts: 898
    Originally posted by Netzoko


    Hey Mythic, your game is dying and apparently you don't know why. When you take a successful setup (Like Daoc), then join EA and try to copy WoW you get a bloody mess. I'm going to be concise and tell why this game is declining, and will not be a long term success.
    - Failure to create the social aspects of MMOs. (Deep craft systems, social hubs, guild halls and housing, player cities, economy). This game is shallow.
    - Too much dumbing down for the inbreds and WoW players. It's alright to make a complex game, most people like that. This game requires NO skill or intellectual thought to succeed in any way. Even WoW's combat is more diverse, complex, and interesting. They tried to make this game playable for 7 year olds instead of making it satisfying for the true MMO players. Another thing is the utter lack of character customization in talent trees. You basically get 3 choices, all of which don't make the slightest difference, and every class has 1 tree that's totally worthless. Oh, you rolled X class? Pick from these 3 choices for your build! <-- that is not character custimization, its dumbed down crap.
    - Scenarios. Let's make an RvR game, but put Areana games accessable anywhere, anytime, with tons of rewards! Wait, what? Why would people play RvR? I don't blame them for grinding scenarios, War gave them no choice.
    - Poor server planning syndrome. Side effects include massive numbers of empty servers due to poor planning and incompetence. Even on the highest pop servers you walk for hours and never see anyone.
    - Far, far too casual. This isn't a hardcore v casual argument, what I mean is simply that you can't really progress in the game enough. The game caters to the FPS crowd in the sense that you hop in and kill shit, nothing more. In result you get a bunch of foaming at the mouth, instant-gradification players refusing to take the time to organize a keep raid, because they'd rather just quickly do a scenario. Mythic, if you make something very easy to do, and another thing hard to do, what do you think the population will choose? The game is overrun by casuals because the game mechanics force it.
    - Items, money, and it's lack of effect. Mythic could remove items, gold, vendors, and everything associated and the game would honestly not be much different. Items look the same, and barely alter the character. I suppose this was a poorly planned and implemented way of not letting the gear kings pwn everything. The AH is empty, just like the capital cities. Items are worthless, simple as that. This is once again showing like an FPS game. You don't worry about stuff like items, economy, and money.  You get in and kill shit, WAR is just like this. It just isn't the MMO way.
     
    It's obvious that EA wanted a piece of the WoW pie, they made a -somewhat- unique version of WoW, but they don't realize that this saturated MMO market is sick of bullshit. One day EA will realize that they can make tons of money with integirty and quality games instead of regurgitated excrement. Just read these forums, a top notch sandbox MMO would get subs in the millions.



     

    You know I never thought I would say to a MMO it is too less hardcore. But WAR is. The result is most ppl mindlessly zerg and loosing doesnt mean a shit. People just have zero reason to defend keeps or their capitals and they all zerg in those thrice damn scenarios.

    I agree with everything. And that kinda shocks me.

    image

  • YunbeiYunbei Member Posts: 898
    Originally posted by Meridion


    @people who say the game does not have decreasing player numbers:


    Log in during prime time, between 7 pm and 9 pm on weekdays, and browse through the server list. Then, remember how it was 2 and 4 weeks ago. No more queues, half the servers on low, 90% on medium, 1-3 on high. If you still say that player numbers are not decreasing after that, well, you should definitely see a doctor.


    @people who think argumenting against WAR is WoW-trolling or backwards thinking:




    It is evident that hardly anyone joins open RvR. The game was intended as an open RvR game, but no one's actually joining in, and if, they team random players up and take a keep without resistence. So THE major game mechanic is not working.


    This has nothing to do with WoW or with how things would be better, or worse. This game was intened as an RvR game and in fact, nobody plays RvR. this stems first and foremost from the lack of rewards, but also from the worst communication possibilities EVER in an MMO, and last not least from the lack of community forming. I won't join the "but in WoW" bandwagon, but in this game  need tight-knit groups to achieve major goals. So this might not be very backwards concerning it is one major factor in the most successful MMO ever.


    M



     

    IMO one of the things you NEED in a RVR/PVP game is forming communities. You need to know the names of your comrades from many fights and adventures - and conversations! As it is, most people fighting about keeps and in scenarios are strangers to each other. With WAR designed like a large tunnel with no going back and no working social hub and no working channels (NEVER seen such a silent MMO before!) its no wonder the RVR doesnt really work. But wasnt that what WAR was to be about?

    Its the same blasted denial as in so many other MMOs before. They will deny the problem until its too late and the crowd passes on. Its a shame some just dont realize we point to the problems because we hope they are remedied, not denied, because we would like to see the game improve. Same story every time around.

    image

  • ardohainardohain Member Posts: 103

    couldn't have said it better myself. OP took care of it all.

    i don't mean to speak down to people who enjoy this game, but i'm very easy to please and WAR really isn't worth my time. i have a very hard time comprehending how anyone above 15yrs old could maintain interest in this game.

  • monothmonoth Member Posts: 551

    You spend several hours to get a keep, then afterwards you take an hour break to eat lunch, come back and the enemy has taken the keep back again... So whats the point of even doing RvR?

    This game is so dumb down and so pointless, it's becoming boring for a lot of people, Money is easy to get and because the game is loot centric and armor/weapons are given to you via quests or PQ's there's no reason to spend money... That's why people are leaving...

    IMO, The biggest problems are:

    1) Loot Centric Game play (everything is given to you via looting so you don't need money)

    2) Useless crafting system

    3) No incentive to take keeps as the other team will just take them back right away

    4) No Player Economy

    5) Boring Combat (take a page from AOC and add some blood and limbs)

    6) No story arc to follow in PvE

  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,088

    I agree with the OP about the scenarios. I wouldnt miss them if they would be removed. Maybe the RvR areas would become more busy. If I do the PVE quests in the RvR areas, I rarely see other players.

    On the customisation thing. I dont care if its WoW, Lotro, NGE SWG or WAR. The character customisation (skills, talents/expertise/mastery) is poor in all these games. I prefer preCU SWG system or GW system (atributes, second profession etc). As long as the combat is ok, Im fine with this. Though I still have to get used to the very slow general cooldown of WAR's skills (2s!!). I turned of autoqueing, but I still cant get used to it.

    I do like the PVE content from WAR though (except DEvsHE pairing), it just needs more of it. Especially Greenskin area is fun to play.

    Crafting in this game is crap. They clearly didnt think this through. For example if you dont craft you will have more then enough inv space. If you craft however, you will run out of space before reaching the AH. I hate running out of inv space.

  • Tyvolus1Tyvolus1 Member Posts: 815
    Originally posted by Talin


    WAR is what it is... straight to the fun. It doesn't make you:
     
    1. Wait for hours for a group to experience content
    2. Wait for hours to experience PvP
    3. Run around for hours to get to a location where you can do something
     
    Yes, it doesn't have some of the features of other games, and down the road, I would imagine they would be added. What they do have is a game that cuts out the "crap" and gets you right into the action. they may need to enrich the experience to increase longevity, but for now, it is my game of choice.

    Very true -- WAR is about having fun without all the BS in a MMO that takes away from the fun.  there are so many MMOs I have loved but the boring, mindless timesinks destroy it for me.  WAR thrusts you into the fight from the second your character steps into the world and the action is always around the corner.  To each their own -- but I am having fun and I love the pvp.  I also see the dev team with a vision for the future of this game with patches and xpansions.  I think its going to get even better in a short time.

     

  • berniebearberniebear Member Posts: 228

    Not trying to start a fight but seen your little war with the brew guy. As much as I hate him for his non-stop flaming he did actually win. He was right you did make pretty bold and horrible assumptions. Not trying to start anything but you really should lay off he's a bit out of your league

  • BoneserinoBoneserino Member UncommonPosts: 1,768

    And you are just Brewer's alias Bernie.

    You really are pathetic!

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • chryseschryses Member UncommonPosts: 1,453
    Originally posted by Yunbei

    Originally posted by Meridion


    @people who say the game does not have decreasing player numbers:


    Log in during prime time, between 7 pm and 9 pm on weekdays, and browse through the server list. Then, remember how it was 2 and 4 weeks ago. No more queues, half the servers on low, 90% on medium, 1-3 on high. If you still say that player numbers are not decreasing after that, well, you should definitely see a doctor.


    @people who think argumenting against WAR is WoW-trolling or backwards thinking:




    It is evident that hardly anyone joins open RvR. The game was intended as an open RvR game, but no one's actually joining in, and if, they team random players up and take a keep without resistence. So THE major game mechanic is not working.


    This has nothing to do with WoW or with how things would be better, or worse. This game was intened as an RvR game and in fact, nobody plays RvR. this stems first and foremost from the lack of rewards, but also from the worst communication possibilities EVER in an MMO, and last not least from the lack of community forming. I won't join the "but in WoW" bandwagon, but in this game  need tight-knit groups to achieve major goals. So this might not be very backwards concerning it is one major factor in the most successful MMO ever.


    M



     

    IMO one of the things you NEED in a RVR/PVP game is forming communities. You need to know the names of your comrades from many fights and adventures - and conversations! As it is, most people fighting about keeps and in scenarios are strangers to each other. With WAR designed like a large tunnel with no going back and no working social hub and no working channels (NEVER seen such a silent MMO before!) its no wonder the RVR doesnt really work. But wasnt that what WAR was to be about?

    Its the same blasted denial as in so many other MMOs before. They will deny the problem until its too late and the crowd passes on. Its a shame some just dont realize we point to the problems because we hope they are remedied, not denied, because we would like to see the game improve. Same story every time around.

     

    I have to agree with this a lot.  When you look at other PvP centric games like EVE there are characters that everyone knows and if you play factional warfare then you will get to know the main pilots as well.  WAR is a PvP centric game yet does not have any 'US' vs 'Them' feel.  By simplifying the game to a point where winning or losing means FA on the most part then it doesn't encourage the community to bond together.  

    The directors needed to grow some balls and make the penalties tough for the side which loses a keep or zone.   Imagine if you could get pushed right back to the starter map by the enemy?  Have level 30 players fighting alongside level 10 players to hold back the storm.  Right now it feels like a tunnel and I for one hated the fact that when I was enjoying the game at the start, when I turned level 13 mid combat I suddenly turned into a chicken for being too high a level.  I remember logging off in disgust since I had spent 2-3 hours fighting in a group and finally getting to know other players and better still it was RvR. 

    For players who say you cant have veterans with noobs fighting alongside each other, you are wrong. EVE can have a group with a 5 year old character and a 2 week old character and they both contribute to the battle.  Imagine if in WAR you could use different weapons to buff other players.  This would give a level 8 player some meaning if in a high level group. 

    My thoughts anyway

  • lovesandylovesandy Member Posts: 32

    declinie???  oh ,you made me depressed .im so sorry to hear that, but i cant see it in my friends. anyhow, we love it

    RUN FORREST RUN!!

Sign In or Register to comment.