Problem isnt mythic, but players. Everyone is soloing quests and not balancing the game. I been playing since Beta, did the whole Collectors Edition Launch and I just NOW reached level 20. Lvl 15 was made doing nothing but RvRing. The gae has more sides to it and the majority of the players are doing Solo quests, your playing a MSO and not a MMO. When you realize what you need to do and what others need to do, you will find this game to benefit in more areas then most games out there now. Blaming Mythic for the lack of knowledge from other players or saying RvR sycks, cause PLAYERS dont want to do it, is insane. I ran through T1 area and found 1, just 1 enemy and its funny cause I am order and destruction usually is the controlling realm. When players stop being idiots and start exploreing all aspects of the game, then RvR will explode. Plus, if your not doing Open RvR, your not RvRing, let alone MMOing.
another blame the player not the game blame me all you want , but the fact is several hundred thousand of us found out quick where the cancel button was
Im sorry but I do blame the player, as well as the WoW infection that turned the social aspect of MMOing into a console based solo the whole game attitude.
Good luck with that. You will never get a good game if you have designers who believe that.
The old saying "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way". This is often misapplied/misunderstood in the context of MMOs. The designers have to lead, because most people either want to follow or get in the way. Only a select few will naturally attempt to lead and only a very small percent of those will actually lead effectively.
The developers must lead or the game fails. Period.
The numbers are just not right if you put the burden on the players. There are not enough effective leaders. There never are in any endeavor.
Players make the game, Im sorry, the whole concept of a sandbox is around because of exactly that.
Having the developers take the lead is hand holding theme park play.
I actually think WAR suffers from too much hand holding.
There burden SHOULD go on the players.
This attitude that you just described is the classic failure of leadership. Just because the game has a number of Rear Admirials and Captains does not mean the developers are not the Admiral. It is the Admiral's responibility to create an environment where Captains flourish and a select few become competent Rear Admirals.
What good is leadership if all the soldiers say, "I dont wanna, taking initive is too hard, hold my hand and que me up for a fight, I dont wanna go find it myself.......
That is the secret of good leadership. Ask Horatio Nelson why men died for him and hated other officers. That is why I used the word "inspire".
Let me clear something up, I'm trying to talk anyone to sticking around, I could care less if you play or not or what you do. WAR does fine with or without you, sure it's taken a population hit since release, oh well I have NO problems with population on my server.
Second No I dont think WAR is a broken piece of crap, the game is rather good as far as MMO's go. YES it has problems, I think they will get fixed.
What I was trying to say in my OP was that I think, given a month or two, the Open RvR will pick up, I was not trying to get anyone to stick around, again I dont really care if you play WAR or not. What I was trying to say is that I certainly think that WAR open rvr has some serious potential and I really think it will pick up.
Have most of you even played the game past T2? have any of you played to T4? Look at the open rvr places like Praag, man that place looks just awsome for open rvr, fighting on the streets of a burning city. I really think there is some great potential, thats all I was saying.
Let me clear something up, I'm trying to talk anyone to sticking around, I could care less if you play or not or what you do. WAR does fine with or without you, sure it's taken a population hit since release, oh well I have NO problems with population on my server.
Second No I dont think WAR is a broken piece of crap, the game is rather good as far as MMO's go. YES it has problems, I think they will get fixed. What I was trying to say in my OP was that I think, given a month or two, the Open RvR will pick up, I was not trying to get anyone to stick around, again I dont really care if you play WAR or not. What I was trying to say is that I certainly think that WAR open rvr has some serious potential and I really think it will pick up.
Have most of you even played the game past T2? have any of you played to T4? Look at the open rvr places like Praag, man that place looks just awsome for open rvr, fighting on the streets of a burning city. I really think there is some great potential, thats all I was saying.
Yes that stuff is fun for a week. But until they fix zone control it will only last a week. And they have not said anything about fixing zone control. It has been completely ignored.
The T4 campaign is a ship with no sails on a becalmed ocean. You can swim around for a bit and have some fun but you get nowhere.
It is pretty hard to deny that Mythic did not give the following tools to the players to take charge and effectively make RvR happen:
1) Forums to communicate, discuss, recruit, schedule open RvR raids, etc. People can whine and cry about game forums all they want, but they are a great source of information more often than not.
2) Until last week they hamstruck players ability to even communicate in the game. The chat system was absolute crap and was next to useless to try to rally troops or muster a decent group to do something.
3) A decent looking for group tool to form warbands, etc. The open group system is cute, but there is no way of knowing what the group you join is going to be doing. They might be listed as PvE/RvR/PQ just because the leader is running through some area on his way to another destination. Having the simple ability to put a little note next to your group to describe your goals would help a large bit.
4) The utter lack of incentives or motivation to raid the RvR lakes. Scenario xp/renown... why didn't they see it coming?
5) Scenarios them selves offer quick action, fun PvP with a much higher chance of fighting at even odds than any RvR might offer.
6) Population caps and to many servers have thinned out the playerbase way to much. It is a large problem for many servers right now.
I am sure there are exceptions to every point I made and they can be overcome with enough effort, but that doesn't make them the norm. How can anyone realistically blame the players when Mythic did such a piss poor job of giving players the tools and incentives to get out there do open world PvP?
I squarely place the blame on hand holding, icon above the head quest giving, minimap highlighting, scenario queuing, quest journaling, 10 rabbit feet turning in apathy.
Everything easy, and served to you on a silver platter, so no one wants to actually DO anything for themselves.
In EQ, we didnt have any of that on the pvp servers, we had to go look for fights, and we did. With no leadership whatsoever, and trust me when I say the devs had nothing to do with it.
I squarely place the blame on hand holding, icon above the head quest giving, minimap highlighting, scenario queuing, quest journaling, 10 rabbit feet turning in apathy. Everything easy, and served to you on a silver platter, so no one wants to actually DO anything for themselves. In EQ, we didnt have any of that on the pvp servers, we had to go look for fights, and we did. With no leadership whatsoever, and trust me when I say the devs had nothing to do with it.
i didn't play EQ but i agree about Devs and the silver platter and hand holding
Men dying for an officer is a far cry from people taking the time to find the fun they want to have.
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
Men dying for an officer is a far cry from people taking the time to find the fun they want to have.
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
This fails to explain why people still pvp'd in EQ without any "developer" inspiration.
Men dying for an officer is a far cry from people taking the time to find the fun they want to have.
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
This fails to explain why people still pvp'd in EQ without any "developer" inspiration.
lately I've noticed a lot of complaints or bad reviews against WAR, while many things pointed out in these I believe are correct I disagree with the views on Open RvR being a failure.
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
I squarely place the blame on hand holding, icon above the head quest giving, minimap highlighting, scenario queuing, quest journaling, 10 rabbit feet turning in apathy. Everything easy, and served to you on a silver platter, so no one wants to actually DO anything for themselves. In EQ, we didnt have any of that on the pvp servers, we had to go look for fights, and we did. With no leadership whatsoever, and trust me when I say the devs had nothing to do with it.
don't know if it was me you were asking but this is what i was refering to
I squarely place the blame on hand holding, icon above the head quest giving, minimap highlighting, scenario queuing, quest journaling, 10 rabbit feet turning in apathy. Everything easy, and served to you on a silver platter, so no one wants to actually DO anything for themselves. In EQ, we didnt have any of that on the pvp servers, we had to go look for fights, and we did. With no leadership whatsoever, and trust me when I say the devs had nothing to do with it.
don't know if it was me you were asking but this is what i was refering to
I guess what Im asking, is back in the day I feel like pvp in EQ was completely player driven, there was no "developer inspiration"
So if you feel its up to the developers to prod the pvp into the right direction to make it work, Im curious as to your explanation of why pvp in EQ with absolutely no direction set by developers worked for a lot of people at the time.
did you have a choice of open or instanced pvp in EQ?
now look at the hand holding pvp in WAR (scenarios
you had to stay in the world IN EQ and felt like it was your world
in War i don't feel like i'm in a world i feel like i'm in a bunch of zones
like in eq was there a rvr lake
was there instanced pvp
i just can't get the feeling that the RVR lakes are a part of a world as there is nothing worldly in them
and then to be in them alone in your war group and just capping BO by killing pve bosses
just never felt like a world i needed to care about
edit when i played WOW i was in a world pvp guild (i have never raided and don't plan to start)we did town attacks because they were fun no other reason when Blizzard decided to make guard zergs i quit and haven't been back
did you have a choice of open or instanced pvp in EQ? now look at the hand holding pvp in WAR (scenarios you had to stay in the world IN EQ and felt like it was your world in War i don't feel like i'm in a world i feel like i'm in a bunch of zones like in eq was there a rvr lake was there instanced pvp i just can't get the feeling that the RVR lakes are a part of a world as there is nothing worldly in them and then to be in them alone in your war group and just capping BO by killing pve bosses just never felt like a world i needed to care about
there were no instances to pvp in, there were no RvR lakes, you simply searched for a zone til you found trouble. Granted some areas you were more apt to find pvp than others, however there was no way to tell except to go look for yourself.
Ive been spending sometime the last week sitting in the area that people fight over for the control points and keep.
And what ive seen is almost always the same.
A faction gets together a large group and makes a run on the area.They encounter next to no PC opposition, and fight the PvE battles with the areas npc defenders.They win and capture the area (keep and points).
Later,usually within 12 hours,the other faction gets together a large group and does the same.Again facing little to no PC opposition.
I can usually predict, by time of day i look, which faction will have the most control.Its so cyclic,and really NON-RvR oriented ,its kinda funny.
When I first heard about WAR I was under the impression that the game was exclusively RVR PVP and that all experience gained was through PVP....... This is what they should have stuck with and jsut perfected it...... I really wasnt Ok with scenarios because of them being instanced and also because they gave players too much XP........Players will almost always take the fastest path, especially if it is easy and convenient.......WAR should have stuck with DAoC style of gameplay and just perfected it..... There is little doubt in my mind that they brought in scenarios to try and grab some of the WoW players......
lately I've noticed a lot of complaints or bad reviews against WAR, while many things pointed out in these I believe are correct I disagree with the views on Open RvR being a failure.
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
I was referring to and only too player reviews.
I dont think all the bad reviews have been without merit either. I do think that there are problems with open RvR, certainly with the social aspect and such but to me these are minor and will be fixed. I also think it was a big mistake not to have an official message board.
On the other side, my god yes these people are NEVER happy, I've played almost every mmo and man no one is ever happy, I think thats just human nature. As far as MMOs go that list to the left is the best of the best thats out right now. There isn't going to be anything incredible appearing overnight. Yes there is hope, darkfall in my opinion, but we will see, certainly people will complain about it too though. But at this point im not sure what people want anymore, they want the absolute perfect game and its NOT going to happen.
I do agree though I think WAR is great, and I think it has great potential, I'm sticking around, as for what others do I say play where your happy.
1. MMO = Competitive play even in solely PVE games as players strive to show off the greatest achievements and progress. Scenarios 1, RvR 0.
2. Substantive rewards are only gained on capture of objectives and keeps iirc, there is little point defending your keeps, vs losing and recapturing.
3. And this is before we even go into the fact that its a res/zerg/res/zerg fest on a decently populated server with no attrition on the other side whatsoever. However I dont think many players have got to the stage to experience that with the lack of activity.
lately I've noticed a lot of complaints or bad reviews against WAR, while many things pointed out in these I believe are correct I disagree with the views on Open RvR being a failure.
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
I was referring to and only too player reviews.
I dont think all the bad reviews have been without merit either. I do think that there are problems with open RvR, certainly with the social aspect and such but to me these are minor and will be fixed. I also think it was a big mistake not to have an official message board.
On the other side, my god yes these people are NEVER happy, I've played almost every mmo and man no one is ever happy, I think thats just human nature. As far as MMOs go that list to the left is the best of the best thats out right now. There isn't going to be anything incredible appearing overnight. Yes there is hope, darkfall in my opinion, but we will see, certainly people will complain about it too though. But at this point im not sure what people want anymore, they want the absolute perfect game and its NOT going to happen.
I do agree though I think WAR is great, and I think it has great potential, I'm sticking around, as for what others do I say play where your happy.
I do not complain about most bugs or lack of polish. When I say something is borked or broken it is IMPORTANT. I have not even mentioned the multitude little bugs like chat problems, lag, crashes or the tons of display things.
I played Neocron for the love of Pete. NEOCRON. When I say a mechanic is broken you can take it to the bank that something is up. Not that I am right, but certainly I am not whining and probably there is something that really needs looking into.
I'm having a complete blast in T2 Destruction side on Skull Throne. There may not be a whole lot of organization, but all the T2 RvR areas are drowning in blood. I do wish there was more organization sometimes just to stem the constant zerg from both sides so that one side may actually be declared a winner once in awhile, but its nice to log on and be able to jump in the action for as long as you like, or for as long as you have time. Its really not that hard to set up flank groups or to take a group away from the main keep to capture the boon objectives. It is hard getting players to give a shit, but there are plenty that do and they are willing to listen, just need some good leaders imo.
I don't think its so important to rush to max level to enjoy the pvp in this game. The game is designed so that there is no huge race to max level. From what I hear T2 is where the real fun is at because there are alot more people, and alot nicer people participating than in T3 or T4 atm.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I'm having a complete blast in T2 Destruction side on Skull Throne. There may not be a whole lot of organization, but all the T2 RvR areas are drowning in blood. I do wish there was more organization sometimes just to stem the constant zerg from both sides so that one side may actually be declared a winner once in awhile, but its nice to log on and be able to jump in the action for as long as you like, or for as long as you have time. Its really not that hard to set up flank groups or to take a group away from the main keep to capture the boon objectives. It is hard getting players to give a shit, but there are plenty that do and they are willing to listen, just need some good leaders imo. I don't think its so important to rush to max level to enjoy the pvp in this game. The game is designed so that there is no huge race to max level. From what I hear T2 is where the real fun is at because there are alot more people, and alot nicer people participating than in T3 or T4 atm.
You have to join a guild for organization. That is Mythic's design and I do not see any other alternative for them either.
Best you can hope to do is get a friends list going, but that is pretty spotty.
Skull throne is the most populace server and one of the most active servers for RvR. I play alts on skul thorne precisely because of that. Most servers are not working like Skull Throne.
Gestalt - I was not replying to you, I was replying to someone else.
I am a bit lost on what you were telling me, but I do agree there are broken parts of WAR, there are broken parts of every game. and they should be fixed.
1. I think Mythic is looking into these things, the game has been out a month or so.
2. The point of my post was not to talk you or anyone else into staying, again I care not what you do, if you dont have fun, then dont play it.
3. My point was that I think things will get smoothed out in the next month or so, I really do, they wont be perfect but none of the games to the left are, NONE, not even the almighty WOW, which for some reason has become the standard for rating mmo's by for a reason unknown to me, I couldent stand wow.
This game like all others will have parts be fixed and some parts remain broken, however these post that war is a broken, crap game are total bs. WAR is a pretty good game by todays standards, I look at the list to the left and there are few games there as worthy of my time as WAR right now. Maybe the future for MMOs is bright I dont really know, but this magical perfect MMO that people are looking for isn't going to happen.
There wont be a MMO with great PVP, PVE, graphics, mechanics, flawlessly runs, perfect upon release, caters to casual and hardcore players, very social, no population problems, excellent support. ITS not going to happen...
warhammers rvr compared to daocs rvr is a failure at best, and now we are all seeing the ,wait please do not go, we are raising the xp in rvr as a last ditch attempt to get people back,
in comparison, sieging a keep in daoc was way more fun then in warhammer, , why ? cause the players had to actully be there to defend it, guards were not the issue and last but not least , it was fun !!!
warhammers version of sieging is, place siege weapons here, place ram here, kill guards, kill guards, kill guard, kill guards that just poped, make your way on stairs, wait , wait, wait, push push push, go back , go back , go gack, enemy player , notice its only 1 person, wait , wait, wait, push push push, get owned by guards, run back to keep after getting wiped out.
in daoc , the only threat was the players who were defending, not the guards, never !!!!
and there were more then one way to attack a keep and defend it also !!! people put holes into walls, people were actully going to war with each other,
in warhammer, no one rvr's compared to daoc. , daoc had thidranki , molvik, and frontiers, what dose war have ? empty empty empty zones.
all warhammer is good for is scenarios. and thats about it.
it sucks but its the truth. can mythic fix it ? yes , they could do it now and get to work, will they ? nope, what makes you think they will when they have yet to fix daoc ? when they messed that game up., SCREW YOU EA !!!!!
Comments
another blame the player not the game blame me all you want , but the fact is several hundred thousand of us found out quick where the cancel button was
Im sorry but I do blame the player, as well as the WoW infection that turned the social aspect of MMOing into a console based solo the whole game attitude.
Good luck with that. You will never get a good game if you have designers who believe that.
The old saying "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way". This is often misapplied/misunderstood in the context of MMOs. The designers have to lead, because most people either want to follow or get in the way. Only a select few will naturally attempt to lead and only a very small percent of those will actually lead effectively.
The developers must lead or the game fails. Period.
The numbers are just not right if you put the burden on the players. There are not enough effective leaders. There never are in any endeavor.
Players make the game, Im sorry, the whole concept of a sandbox is around because of exactly that.
Having the developers take the lead is hand holding theme park play.
I actually think WAR suffers from too much hand holding.
There burden SHOULD go on the players.
This attitude that you just described is the classic failure of leadership. Just because the game has a number of Rear Admirials and Captains does not mean the developers are not the Admiral. It is the Admiral's responibility to create an environment where Captains flourish and a select few become competent Rear Admirals.
What good is leadership if all the soldiers say, "I dont wanna, taking initive is too hard, hold my hand and que me up for a fight, I dont wanna go find it myself.......
That is the secret of good leadership. Ask Horatio Nelson why men died for him and hated other officers. That is why I used the word "inspire".
Let me clear something up, I'm trying to talk anyone to sticking around, I could care less if you play or not or what you do. WAR does fine with or without you, sure it's taken a population hit since release, oh well I have NO problems with population on my server.
Second No I dont think WAR is a broken piece of crap, the game is rather good as far as MMO's go. YES it has problems, I think they will get fixed.
What I was trying to say in my OP was that I think, given a month or two, the Open RvR will pick up, I was not trying to get anyone to stick around, again I dont really care if you play WAR or not. What I was trying to say is that I certainly think that WAR open rvr has some serious potential and I really think it will pick up.
Have most of you even played the game past T2? have any of you played to T4? Look at the open rvr places like Praag, man that place looks just awsome for open rvr, fighting on the streets of a burning city. I really think there is some great potential, thats all I was saying.
Yes that stuff is fun for a week. But until they fix zone control it will only last a week. And they have not said anything about fixing zone control. It has been completely ignored.
The T4 campaign is a ship with no sails on a becalmed ocean. You can swim around for a bit and have some fun but you get nowhere.
Why do people keep blaming the players?
It is pretty hard to deny that Mythic did not give the following tools to the players to take charge and effectively make RvR happen:
1) Forums to communicate, discuss, recruit, schedule open RvR raids, etc. People can whine and cry about game forums all they want, but they are a great source of information more often than not.
2) Until last week they hamstruck players ability to even communicate in the game. The chat system was absolute crap and was next to useless to try to rally troops or muster a decent group to do something.
3) A decent looking for group tool to form warbands, etc. The open group system is cute, but there is no way of knowing what the group you join is going to be doing. They might be listed as PvE/RvR/PQ just because the leader is running through some area on his way to another destination. Having the simple ability to put a little note next to your group to describe your goals would help a large bit.
4) The utter lack of incentives or motivation to raid the RvR lakes. Scenario xp/renown... why didn't they see it coming?
5) Scenarios them selves offer quick action, fun PvP with a much higher chance of fighting at even odds than any RvR might offer.
6) Population caps and to many servers have thinned out the playerbase way to much. It is a large problem for many servers right now.
I am sure there are exceptions to every point I made and they can be overcome with enough effort, but that doesn't make them the norm. How can anyone realistically blame the players when Mythic did such a piss poor job of giving players the tools and incentives to get out there do open world PvP?
Men dying for an officer is a far cry from people taking the time to find the fun they want to have.
I squarely place the blame on hand holding, icon above the head quest giving, minimap highlighting, scenario queuing, quest journaling, 10 rabbit feet turning in apathy.
Everything easy, and served to you on a silver platter, so no one wants to actually DO anything for themselves.
In EQ, we didnt have any of that on the pvp servers, we had to go look for fights, and we did. With no leadership whatsoever, and trust me when I say the devs had nothing to do with it.
i didn't play EQ but i agree about Devs and the silver platter and hand holding
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
This fails to explain why people still pvp'd in EQ without any "developer" inspiration.
Most people never take the time for anything that is fairly large, that is why they need to be inspired.
It is not a far cry at all. In fact it is exactly the same thing, it merely differs in degree and in what it inspires. IN the case of Nelson he inspired many things but Love and Respect are probably what were the most crucial
Any game that fails to inspire its players in the appropriate ways will be a game that fails. I guarantee you that. Doesn't matter who plays it.
This fails to explain why people still pvp'd in EQ without any "developer" inspiration.
see your post above that pretty much sums it up
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
Sinister Savant MMORPG Community
Hmm Im not getting your point. Elaborate please?
don't know if it was me you were asking but this is what i was refering to
don't know if it was me you were asking but this is what i was refering to
I guess what Im asking, is back in the day I feel like pvp in EQ was completely player driven, there was no "developer inspiration"
So if you feel its up to the developers to prod the pvp into the right direction to make it work, Im curious as to your explanation of why pvp in EQ with absolutely no direction set by developers worked for a lot of people at the time.
did you have a choice of open or instanced pvp in EQ?
now look at the hand holding pvp in WAR (scenarios
you had to stay in the world IN EQ and felt like it was your world
in War i don't feel like i'm in a world i feel like i'm in a bunch of zones
like in eq was there a rvr lake
was there instanced pvp
i just can't get the feeling that the RVR lakes are a part of a world as there is nothing worldly in them
and then to be in them alone in your war group and just capping BO by killing pve bosses
just never felt like a world i needed to care about
edit when i played WOW i was in a world pvp guild (i have never raided and don't plan to start)we did town attacks because they were fun no other reason when Blizzard decided to make guard zergs i quit and haven't been back
there were no instances to pvp in, there were no RvR lakes, you simply searched for a zone til you found trouble. Granted some areas you were more apt to find pvp than others, however there was no way to tell except to go look for yourself.
And it worked.
Im simply not seeing very much "open" RvR at all.
Ive been spending sometime the last week sitting in the area that people fight over for the control points and keep.
And what ive seen is almost always the same.
A faction gets together a large group and makes a run on the area.They encounter next to no PC opposition, and fight the PvE battles with the areas npc defenders.They win and capture the area (keep and points).
Later,usually within 12 hours,the other faction gets together a large group and does the same.Again facing little to no PC opposition.
I can usually predict, by time of day i look, which faction will have the most control.Its so cyclic,and really NON-RvR oriented ,its kinda funny.
When I first heard about WAR I was under the impression that the game was exclusively RVR PVP and that all experience gained was through PVP....... This is what they should have stuck with and jsut perfected it...... I really wasnt Ok with scenarios because of them being instanced and also because they gave players too much XP........Players will almost always take the fastest path, especially if it is easy and convenient.......WAR should have stuck with DAoC style of gameplay and just perfected it..... There is little doubt in my mind that they brought in scenarios to try and grab some of the WoW players......
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
I was referring to and only too player reviews.
I dont think all the bad reviews have been without merit either. I do think that there are problems with open RvR, certainly with the social aspect and such but to me these are minor and will be fixed. I also think it was a big mistake not to have an official message board.
On the other side, my god yes these people are NEVER happy, I've played almost every mmo and man no one is ever happy, I think thats just human nature. As far as MMOs go that list to the left is the best of the best thats out right now. There isn't going to be anything incredible appearing overnight. Yes there is hope, darkfall in my opinion, but we will see, certainly people will complain about it too though. But at this point im not sure what people want anymore, they want the absolute perfect game and its NOT going to happen.
I do agree though I think WAR is great, and I think it has great potential, I'm sticking around, as for what others do I say play where your happy.
2. Substantive rewards are only gained on capture of objectives and keeps iirc, there is little point defending your keeps, vs losing and recapturing.
3. And this is before we even go into the fact that its a res/zerg/res/zerg fest on a decently populated server with no attrition on the other side whatsoever. However I dont think many players have got to the stage to experience that with the lack of activity.
Where are these bad reviews 'couse I have not seen a singe one and pretty much every magazine and site allready did theirs. Are you taking about the idiots on various forums who whine ? They whine about all mmos they play, just check this forum ( best example actually ) and check their posts.
Like the guy who made the long post about WAR going down, look at his posts, he said exactly thesame garbage about pretty much every game.
It's just sad that this vermin is allowed to even post.
WAR is a great game, it's really far better then anything else out there and I can tell everyone that at least I and my guild ( banner in my sig ) are having a great time in it.
I was referring to and only too player reviews.
I dont think all the bad reviews have been without merit either. I do think that there are problems with open RvR, certainly with the social aspect and such but to me these are minor and will be fixed. I also think it was a big mistake not to have an official message board.
On the other side, my god yes these people are NEVER happy, I've played almost every mmo and man no one is ever happy, I think thats just human nature. As far as MMOs go that list to the left is the best of the best thats out right now. There isn't going to be anything incredible appearing overnight. Yes there is hope, darkfall in my opinion, but we will see, certainly people will complain about it too though. But at this point im not sure what people want anymore, they want the absolute perfect game and its NOT going to happen.
I do agree though I think WAR is great, and I think it has great potential, I'm sticking around, as for what others do I say play where your happy.
I do not complain about most bugs or lack of polish. When I say something is borked or broken it is IMPORTANT. I have not even mentioned the multitude little bugs like chat problems, lag, crashes or the tons of display things.
I played Neocron for the love of Pete. NEOCRON. When I say a mechanic is broken you can take it to the bank that something is up. Not that I am right, but certainly I am not whining and probably there is something that really needs looking into.
I'm having a complete blast in T2 Destruction side on Skull Throne. There may not be a whole lot of organization, but all the T2 RvR areas are drowning in blood. I do wish there was more organization sometimes just to stem the constant zerg from both sides so that one side may actually be declared a winner once in awhile, but its nice to log on and be able to jump in the action for as long as you like, or for as long as you have time. Its really not that hard to set up flank groups or to take a group away from the main keep to capture the boon objectives. It is hard getting players to give a shit, but there are plenty that do and they are willing to listen, just need some good leaders imo.
I don't think its so important to rush to max level to enjoy the pvp in this game. The game is designed so that there is no huge race to max level. From what I hear T2 is where the real fun is at because there are alot more people, and alot nicer people participating than in T3 or T4 atm.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You have to join a guild for organization. That is Mythic's design and I do not see any other alternative for them either.
Best you can hope to do is get a friends list going, but that is pretty spotty.
Skull throne is the most populace server and one of the most active servers for RvR. I play alts on skul thorne precisely because of that. Most servers are not working like Skull Throne.
Gestalt - I was not replying to you, I was replying to someone else.
I am a bit lost on what you were telling me, but I do agree there are broken parts of WAR, there are broken parts of every game. and they should be fixed.
1. I think Mythic is looking into these things, the game has been out a month or so.
2. The point of my post was not to talk you or anyone else into staying, again I care not what you do, if you dont have fun, then dont play it.
3. My point was that I think things will get smoothed out in the next month or so, I really do, they wont be perfect but none of the games to the left are, NONE, not even the almighty WOW, which for some reason has become the standard for rating mmo's by for a reason unknown to me, I couldent stand wow.
This game like all others will have parts be fixed and some parts remain broken, however these post that war is a broken, crap game are total bs. WAR is a pretty good game by todays standards, I look at the list to the left and there are few games there as worthy of my time as WAR right now. Maybe the future for MMOs is bright I dont really know, but this magical perfect MMO that people are looking for isn't going to happen.
There wont be a MMO with great PVP, PVE, graphics, mechanics, flawlessly runs, perfect upon release, caters to casual and hardcore players, very social, no population problems, excellent support. ITS not going to happen...
warhammers rvr compared to daocs rvr is a failure at best, and now we are all seeing the ,wait please do not go, we are raising the xp in rvr as a last ditch attempt to get people back,
in comparison, sieging a keep in daoc was way more fun then in warhammer, , why ? cause the players had to actully be there to defend it, guards were not the issue and last but not least , it was fun !!!
warhammers version of sieging is, place siege weapons here, place ram here, kill guards, kill guards, kill guard, kill guards that just poped, make your way on stairs, wait , wait, wait, push push push, go back , go back , go gack, enemy player , notice its only 1 person, wait , wait, wait, push push push, get owned by guards, run back to keep after getting wiped out.
in daoc , the only threat was the players who were defending, not the guards, never !!!!
and there were more then one way to attack a keep and defend it also !!! people put holes into walls, people were actully going to war with each other,
in warhammer, no one rvr's compared to daoc. , daoc had thidranki , molvik, and frontiers, what dose war have ? empty empty empty zones.
all warhammer is good for is scenarios. and thats about it.
it sucks but its the truth. can mythic fix it ? yes , they could do it now and get to work, will they ? nope, what makes you think they will when they have yet to fix daoc ? when they messed that game up., SCREW YOU EA !!!!!