They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game?
People having to have a certain set of armour to partake in City seiges is a bad move and hopefully it doesn't happen that way as it just seems to be an easy way for them to extend the life of the game rather than making the end game better.
When the game came out, Mythic had my trust that this game would be fun and do well.
With every decision and change they make, from the changes to itemization, to the changes in gear progression, to the changes to EXP and renown calculations in scenarios, they lose a little bit of my trust.
Why? Because these are kneejerk changes that are so ridiculously near-sighted, it's obvious that Mythic isn't actually thinking before they make decisions, they are simply scrambling to appeal to six different audiences with no clear direction as to where the game is going or what their intentions are.
Perfect example is pre-release compared to now. Gear isn't important? Sounds good. Can do everything in PvP and do well? Perfect. Campaign system pits your entire realm against the other entire realm in massive PvP battles where an entire realm can contribute to the endgame, killing a king? Awesome.
All empty marketing slogans. ALL of them. Gear means little? Pretty obviously not their design plan. Everything in PvP? Not when the gear most important is gotten through pure PvE. Campaign makes it so everyone contributes? Not with this system. Sure, maybe I'll be part of the random zerg to take zones, but when push comes to shove and the realm needs to take a fort, I won't be able to even touch the Fort Lord without dieing.
Now, I have no question that this will be changed. Mythic would have to be, well, idiots not to change it after 75% of their playerbase paniced at the sign of this news.
That's not the point. The point is, decisions like this which are so near-sighted I can't even comprehend them making it past the concept stage are obviously signs of panic and the fact that Mythic doesn't have the presence of mind to realize this was a stupid idea only makes me trust them less.
At release, I thought this game was amazing. Now that I've experienced what the 'endgame' has to offer, I realize this game is far from amazing, it's not even complete yet. What's worse, every time a Dev. speaks to the defence of the game or the plans they have for the future, I lose even more faith. If a Dev. can't even spin their own game enough to make it at least sound a bit less like the POS it's becoming, it means it's time to cancel.
Whats worse is that people are still high on all the media they put out to soften you all up before release.
The direction this game is now going is Different to the one promised and you all know it.
Everyone finally realised that the game can only hold you a very short time before coming repetitive (more so than other mmo's) mythic knew this and made the game with impossible time sinks to keep you longer whilst jacobs fathoms the failure of not having official forums int he 21st century..
Originally posted by tikovoo At release, I thought this game was amazing. Now that I've experienced what the 'endgame' has to offer, I realize this game is far from amazing, it's not even complete yet. What's worse, every time a Dev. speaks to the defence of the game or the plans they have for the future, I lose even more faith. If a Dev. can't even spin their own game enough to make it at least sound a bit less like the POS it's becoming, it means it's time to cancel.
You've been constantly flaming this game before release, at release, and post release. Your post history shows you making a thread saying you cancelled your preorder and not being there at release. You have 100's of posts doing nothing but flaming the game or the people that enjoy it, with short breaks praising AoC. Now you are saying you thought the game was amazing at release until you found out what the endgame was?
I don't buy this agenda you keep pushing. Didn't buy it months ago, not buying it now.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence. Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game? People having to have a certain set of armour to partake in City seiges is a bad move and hopefully it doesn't happen that way as it just seems to be an easy way for them to extend the life of the game rather than making the end game better.
When the game came out, Mythic had my trust that this game would be fun and do well. With every decision and change they make, from the changes to itemization, to the changes in gear progression, to the changes to EXP and renown calculations in scenarios, they lose a little bit of my trust. Why? Because these are kneejerk changes that are so ridiculously near-sighted, it's obvious that Mythic isn't actually thinking before they make decisions, they are simply scrambling to appeal to six different audiences with no clear direction as to where the game is going or what their intentions are. Perfect example is pre-release compared to now. Gear isn't important? Sounds good. Can do everything in PvP and do well? Perfect. Campaign system pits your entire realm against the other entire realm in massive PvP battles where an entire realm can contribute to the endgame, killing a king? Awesome. All empty marketing slogans. ALL of them. Gear means little? Pretty obviously not their design plan. Everything in PvP? Not when the gear most important is gotten through pure PvE. Campaign makes it so everyone contributes? Not with this system. Sure, maybe I'll be part of the random zerg to take zones, but when push comes to shove and the realm needs to take a fort, I won't be able to even touch the Fort Lord without dieing. Now, I have no question that this will be changed. Mythic would have to be, well, idiots not to change it after 75% of their playerbase paniced at the sign of this news. That's not the point. The point is, decisions like this which are so near-sighted I can't even comprehend them making it past the concept stage are obviously signs of panic and the fact that Mythic doesn't have the presence of mind to realize this was a stupid idea only makes me trust them less. At release, I thought this game was amazing. Now that I've experienced what the 'endgame' has to offer, I realize this game is far from amazing, it's not even complete yet. What's worse, every time a Dev. speaks to the defence of the game or the plans they have for the future, I lose even more faith. If a Dev. can't even spin their own game enough to make it at least sound a bit less like the POS it's becoming, it means it's time to cancel. Whats worse is that people are still high on all the media they put out to soften you all up before release. The direction this game is now going is Different to the one promised and you all know it. Everyone finally realised that the game can only hold you a very short time before coming repetitive (more so than other mmo's) mythic knew this and made the game with impossible time sinks to keep you longer whilst jacobs fathoms the failure of not having official forums int he 21st century..
Ok, people don't need a certain set of armor to take part in city-sieges or "king"/faction leader fights at all. Do the sets have bonuses that will help in said situations? Of course, that's called "item/gear progression" and is standard for all MMOs.
They also did NOT make any changes to XP/Renown in Scenarios, except to increase them. I have a feeling what you are refering to is the recent changes that they made to Renown and XP gains in World, Skirmish, and Objective RvR/PvP. Those changes were only increases to XP and Renown in said situations and did NOT affect Renown and XP gain in scenarios at all. So, either you are misinformed, or are trying to pass off an increase in XP and Renown as a bad thing???
They also NEVER said that gear will not be a factor in RvR/PvP. They said it won't have as much as impact as it does in games like WoW, and it doesn't. Leveling, and gaining new gear that corresponds to your new level DOES have an affect, of course and that should be expected. And gaining Renown Rank levels is no different then gaining normal levels, and you get better gear as you go. it's called progression and the game would be totally boring without it.
I also have an issue with your statements that you thought the game was great at launch. You're lying, I took a look at your post history and you have been flaming WAR all along, all the way back to July you have nothing but negative posts regarding WAR, who are you trying to kid?
to everyone complaining about the "RAIDS"- the sets are trash unless you have all of them........in 1.1 we will have RvR influence which will keep RvR gear on par with PQs (hopefully)
ohh man I CANT BELIEVE mythic they are putting content into their game which will add to the expirence of PvEers
man Mythic how could you....
(There may be a lot of negativity of these fourms but servers are still running with plenty of people to group and RvR with no DOOM call from me)
They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game?
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
and it seems that it isn't required that you've got the amour but the amoursets are basically made for that type of highlevel enemies so yeah chances are you'll be ripped to pieces without hehe
Mr Doom and Gloom might also want to read this a bit more closely. They added the Ward ability to additional sets so they are available from both PvE and PvP. Time to move along. Nothing more to see here....
So I have been playing WAR on and off the past few weeks, admist all the bugs and crashes there still can be a fun game under it all only in small area's though. well i wonder the direction the game is going to and to my horror it is going to be like WoW all over again... Raid Armor Farming is IN! /sigh F*** Me http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=397 "On these high end sets, there are five pieces of armor which grant a 10% reduction in damage per piece when worn in specific endgame encounters, for a possible cumulative of around 50% reduction. With these set pieces, players can emerge victorious from what would otherwise be much more difficult battles." Again who said gear doesn't matter? Remember this massive thread on it? www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/166791 You need the gear to do the content its basically saying. I say GAME OVER I don't wanna play another game where I spend forever grinding boring encounters over and over, just to get the special gear to make it possible to grind even more encounters.
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
So I have been playing WAR on and off the past few weeks, admist all the bugs and crashes there still can be a fun game under it all only in small area's though. well i wonder the direction the game is going to and to my horror it is going to be like WoW all over again... Raid Armor Farming is IN! /sigh F*** Me http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=397 "On these high end sets, there are five pieces of armor which grant a 10% reduction in damage per piece when worn in specific endgame encounters, for a possible cumulative of around 50% reduction. With these set pieces, players can emerge victorious from what would otherwise be much more difficult battles." Again who said gear doesn't matter? Remember this massive thread on it? www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/166791 You need the gear to do the content its basically saying. I say GAME OVER I don't wanna play another game where I spend forever grinding boring encounters over and over, just to get the special gear to make it possible to grind even more encounters.
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
Well popular opinion according to other forums around the web is that this is a bad idea and it is turning the game into more like WoW - expect their this stuff is done better.
where is the PvP progression, why do we have to gather up each lot of gear to do the end game which is mainly PvE.
So I have been playing WAR on and off the past few weeks, admist all the bugs and crashes there still can be a fun game under it all only in small area's though. well i wonder the direction the game is going to and to my horror it is going to be like WoW all over again... Raid Armor Farming is IN! /sigh F*** Me http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=397 "On these high end sets, there are five pieces of armor which grant a 10% reduction in damage per piece when worn in specific endgame encounters, for a possible cumulative of around 50% reduction. With these set pieces, players can emerge victorious from what would otherwise be much more difficult battles." Again who said gear doesn't matter? Remember this massive thread on it? www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/166791 You need the gear to do the content its basically saying. I say GAME OVER I don't wanna play another game where I spend forever grinding boring encounters over and over, just to get the special gear to make it possible to grind even more encounters.
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
Well popular opinion according to other forums around the web is that this is a bad idea and it is turning the game into more like WoW - expect their this stuff is done better.
where is the PvP progression, why do we have to gather up each lot of gear to do the end game which is mainly PvE.
its a grinder and the drop rates are major suck
Depends on what class you play. And it just makes it easier. Doesnt mean its not possible without the armor.
If your character is that pathetic maybe it needs to stay out of endgame.
I'm very concerned about this as well. I do not want to grind for armor. That looks like a vertical, stupid grind. Maybe that one guy was right- perhaps FPS is the only place for people like me tired of grinding for gear.
Just not right man- why isnt it enough people grind 40 ranks to hit end game. Then get smacked in the face with an outrageous forced PVE grind
Would like more input on this. Will help me to decide to stick with it or bail now before my free month is out
Why are people surprised and acting like this is something new? Everyone knew that raiding was part of the original design and of course items matter. I knew Warhammer was gonna be a WoW clone which is why I passed on it.
They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game?
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
It's not the 'no PvE' issue, it is the 'you have to PvE to be competitive in RvR' that is turning people off.
"If you’re looking for the best RvR [Realm vs. Realm] in any online game, you come to “Warhammer.” This is what we do well. This is the most core reason to play our game. If you’re looking for the latest and greatest RvR of any MMO, you come to play our game."
It is turning out that RvR isn't the core of the game, but PvE. Mtyhic said you could progress your character from start to finish just by RvR if you wanted to; I'm sure you could, but it would be like saying you could swim to China - you probably could, but it would be very hard. Right now PvE is the best mechanism for getting gear - not just these epic sets - which leaves RvR out in the cold.
They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game?
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
It's not the 'no PvE' issue, it is the 'you have to PvE to be competitive in RvR' that is turning people off.
"If you’re looking for the best RvR [Realm vs. Realm] in any online game, you come to “Warhammer.” This is what we do well. This is the most core reason to play our game. If you’re looking for the latest and greatest RvR of any MMO, you come to play our game."
It is turning out that RvR isn't the core of the game, but PvE. Mtyhic said you could progress your character from start to finish just by RvR if you wanted to; I'm sure you could, but it would be like saying you could swim to China - you probably could, but it would be very hard. Right now PvE is the best mechanism for getting gear - not just these epic sets - which leaves RvR out in the cold.
Why are you lying so obviously?
Are you just sadly misinformed or is it intentional?
The best gear in form of armor sets can come from EITHER PvE OR RvR encounters.
Or are you maybe saying that keep sieging and RvR PQ encounters involving player opposition are somehow PvE and not RvR?
Maybe those armor sets should drop off randomly from players or bought by effing scenario tokens for them to be "proper" RvR? You have no idea whatsoever what RvR means.
Wtf are you talking about? Why do you lie?
The original text states quite clearly how you get those sets and it is perfectly clear that one half of them are obtained through endgeme RvR. What do you want? Arena rating system? Are you insane?
A lot of information in this thread is intentionally misleading.
People that jumped up and down screaming like OP, Pheace... have 0 experience in City siege. ZERO, NOTHING... All they do is nitpicking the grab bag and make it sounds like the sky is falling.
This is FACT and this FACT has been proven: "You don't need any of those set armors to successfully siege a capital city". There are nothing "REQUIRED" whatsoever.
Proof: Remember the Altdorf raid on server Averheim? There were none of this gear progression crap. They had done none of this PvE gear raid/grind crap. Not all their raider were 40. Their gears were nothing special. They charged into Altdorf with none of these complete gear sets, only skills and very high degree of coordination. They were able to do all PQs. They were able to kill almost all sub-boss except the bugged one.
What does it tell you? You don't have to do any of the gear grind crap to enjoy end-game city siege. Saying so and so sets are required to do something is a complete LIE because people have done it without them. Saying PvE raid, gear progression,... are required to participate in end-game city siege is a complete LIE because people have done it without them.
Frankly, I don't think that people like OP doesn't know better. I just think that they purposely push these issues for their own agenda.
A lot of information in this thread is intentionally misleading. People that jumped up and down screaming like OP, Pheace... have 0 experience in City siege. ZERO, NOTHING... All they do is nitpicking the grab bag and make it sounds like the sky is falling. This is FACT and this FACT has been proven: "You don't need any of those set armors to successfully siege a capital city". There are nothing "REQUIRED" whatsoever. Proof: Remember the Altdorf raid on server Averheim? There were none of this gear progression crap. They had done none of this PvE gear raid/grind crap. Not all their raider were 40. Their gears were nothing special. They charged into Altdorf with none of these complete gear sets, only skills and very high degree of coordination. They were able to do all PQs. They were able to kill almost all sub-boss except the bugged one. What does it tell you? You don't have to do any of the gear grind crap to enjoy end-game city siege. Saying so and so sets are required to do something is a complete LIE because people have done it without them. Saying PvE raid, gear progression,... are required to participate in end-game city siege is a complete LIE because people have done it without them. Frankly, I don't think that people like OP doesn't know better. I just think that they purposely push these issues for their own agenda.
I agree, I avidly play WAR and yeah, gear makes a bit of a difference, but you don't need to best of the best to do sieges or even to be in a warband to kill a King. It helps, sure, but its not required. That's like saying that you must have a calculator to do math. Yeh, it helps, but it's really not required.
so you guys got two pieces of annihilator gear that are available from vendors and AH and say the system is super fine because of that?
Return when you have at least a whole annihilator set lol, which is just the beginning of this stupid chain
the other pieces, which you'll have to roll against 10-100 people for, IF a gold bag drops. The first time some random guy who walked up at the end, hits the lord once and wins it you'll be looking to just pve for your pieces.
That's sort of the point that people are making. This is a game that overwhelmingly rewards pve. That is not something that people can make an intelligent argument against. Farming pve instances with a 6 man is far more effective for getting gear than keep sieges. I could have sworn that I read/heard something about gear not being the only thing important in WAR, but that may just have been wishful thinking.
Pve is the centerpiece of a "pvp" game, and the pve is nothing special. If changes are made soon, the problems are acknowledged and general outlines on how to fix it are disseminated then this game has a chance. Otherwise, why play a pve centric game with pvp tacked on?
Wow is flat out better at that model of play and they will implement everything that is successful/fun that War comes up with.
I think the thing is, most people see this, along with other realizations as an indication that the development team is woefully disconnected with what the players want. Sure, they might rectify their mistakes afterward, but that basically forces the player into a very uneven experience.
Today, game is borked due to xxx.
Next month, game is better because xxx was changed.
Month after, game is borked due to yyy.
Constantly releasing stuff to try to feel out the audience, and then correcting it later doesn't work for a live game. It works great in Beta, or if you have a Test server. But the Live game is for stable additions to your game, and require that you have considered the ramifications to your actions. Surely someone had to think "I think people might get upset if they realize that we are adding an artificial cockblock in the form of gear farming" when this idea came up. That person was obviously shouted down, and that leads one to believe that in the future, more decisions that are antithetical to this games general premise may come about.
You basically just described every MMO in existance that isn't a sandbox game. If all you do is plan to constantly RvR in the lakes it'd be impossible not to collect all the gear set for RvR .... if you plan to farm Scenarios well then your screwing yourself guess people who like to PvP should do something other than play mini games if they want the gear. If they don't want the gear and just want to mini game it wont matter much about the gear anyway since the only reason to get the set is to have an extra advantage over the King and a couple of high level mobs. THe gear isn't necessary to win but you know drama queens will be drama queens.
I'm not even sure why the OP cares he hated this game before it even launched.
Raiding sucks and Paul Barnett lied about gear not being important.
Teh, Paul hyper hyper Barnet lied about many things. Some folks really should watch his movies again, comparing it to reality will cause a great laugh. Or cry, as your mentality works. Its an entire telephone book of lies, misleading and failed concepts. People who were hyped have for very human reasons a difficult time to admit it. I can understand that. If you loved something its hard to say "I was wrong", for me like for any other guy. But truth be told, WAR is altogether a mediocre borefest. Some just take a bit longer to realize. Be patient with them. Understanding comes in due time.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Raiding sucks and Paul Barnett lied about gear not being important.
Teh, Paul hyper hyper Barnet lied about many things. Some folks really should watch his movies again, comparing it to reality will cause a great laugh. Or cry, as your mentality works. Its an entire telephone book of lies, misleading and failed concepts. People who were hyped have for very human reasons a difficult time to admit it. I can understand that. If you loved something its hard to say "I was wrong", for me like for any other guy. But truth be told, WAR is altogether a mediocre borefest. Some just take a bit longer to realize. Be patient with them. Understanding comes in due time.
Your just angry it doesn't cater to your RP Lord of the Rings type nature..please move on.
I think this has been said already, but the OP and his supporters are not using their brains too well.
The 'raid' gear is directed towards those who want to get into end game raiding. The reduction pieces allow for guilds/people who want to raid to get a sense of progression (i.e. need X gear before you can move on to Y gear successfully). It does NOT say you NEED these raid pieces to be successful in the casual aspects of WAR, namely casual PvE dungeons, quests, open RVR (keeps etc.) and scenarios.
This gear is in place for those who do enjoy raiding and do want to raid, it's not mandetory and it does not give anyone a particularly unfair advantage over the casuals (unlike WoW). It gives special bonuses against RAIDING mobs and bosses, not normal areas (like you who like to complain so much), so you wont have people in 'l33t epix' owning the people who don't have the time to farm it.
Work on reading what is really being said, please. Mythic is just giving people as many options as they can to benefit different play styles while hopefully not gimping others.
That's sort of the point that people are making. This is a game that overwhelmingly rewards pve. That is not something that people can make an intelligent argument against. Farming pve instances with a 6 man is far more effective for getting gear than keep sieges. I could have sworn that I read/heard something about gear not being the only thing important in WAR, but that may just have been wishful thinking. They are not that important in WAR, not just your wishful thinking but people have proven it before. Overwhelmingly reward PvE? What if I just skip the whole lower set, just kill King and get the best set? Or just skip the whole lower set and get second best set from sub-boss in city? People have proven that they don't need any lower set to kill sub-bosses, you don't even need to be rank 40. The lower set are there as rewards for certain activities but you don't need them to do something else. Pve is the centerpiece of a "pvp" game, and the pve is nothing special. If changes are made soon, the problems are acknowledged and general outlines on how to fix it are disseminated then this game has a chance. Otherwise, why play a pve centric game with pvp tacked on? You are wrong. PvE can't be a centerpiece of a game when almost everything end-game were designed around PvP. You can argue that keeps or cities without players defend them are just PvE but that's not the game intended to. And certainly, you cannot farm a PvP objective just like you farm an instance in PvE. PvE instances are always the same no matter how many times you do them, people are unpredictable. Everything involve players will be unpredictable and that make it funs. High level instances in WAR are also contested, if you are in open RvR servers there will be PvP activities there too, you can't safely farm anything without PvP.
Wow is flat out better at that model of play and they will implement everything that is successful/fun that War comes up with. Well, than WAR will come up with something new again and then WoW will have to keep catching up copying new things from WAR. It calls competition. A healthy competition is actually better for players. If it wasn't because of WAR, would WoW implement all those fun stuffs? And in the field of PvE, people keep saying WoW is the best, it's not. Game with the best PvE contents is Final Fantasy XI, not WoW. Final Fantasy XI is the only game that was not affected by WoW release. It was able to keep 500K sub stable and flat despite of WoW release while other games drop left and right.
I think the thing is, most people see this, along with other realizations as an indication that the development team is woefully disconnected with what the players want. Sure, they might rectify their mistakes afterward, but that basically forces the player into a very uneven experience. Today, game is borked due to xxx. Next month, game is better because xxx was changed. Month after, game is borked due to yyy. Constantly releasing stuff to try to feel out the audience, and then correcting it later doesn't work for a live game. It works great in Beta, or if you have a Test server. But the Live game is for stable additions to your game, and require that you have considered the ramifications to your actions. Surely someone had to think "I think people might get upset if they realize that we are adding an artificial cockblock in the form of gear farming" when this idea came up. That person was obviously shouted down, and that leads one to believe that in the future, more decisions that are antithetical to this games general premise may come about. And that is why everyone is up in arms. The things you just described are not for WAR in particular. They can be applied to any MMORPG out there including WoW. And look at how many people up in arm in WoW when they change something, does it make the game any less successfull? Not even close. And WoW developers are not even listen and communicate to players that much. They only do what they think is right no matter what players think, did they fail because of that? Not even close.
I think this has been said already, but the OP and his supporters are not using their brains too well.
The 'raid' gear is directed towards those who want to get into end game raiding. The reduction pieces allow for guilds/people who want to raid to get a sense of progression (i.e. need X gear before you can move on to Y gear successfully). It does NOT say you NEED these raid pieces to be successful in the casual aspects of WAR, namely casual PvE dungeons, quests, open RVR (keeps etc.) and scenarios.
This gear is in place for those who do enjoy raiding and do want to raid, it's not mandetory and it does not give anyone a particularly unfair advantage over the casuals (unlike WoW). It gives special bonuses against RAIDING mobs and bosses, not normal areas (like you who like to complain so much), so you wont have people in 'l33t epix' owning the people who don't have the time to farm it. Work on reading what is really being said, please. Mythic is just giving people as many options as they can to benefit different play styles while hopefully not gimping others.
I hit reply before I see your post. Couln't have said it better my self.
Comments
They nerfed the hell out of renown gear right before release to encourage pve. Looks like they're doing even more to encourage pve at end game. I can't wrap my head around this thought process, at the last second did they decide they wanted to be a crappy version of wow instead of a pvp based game?
People having to have a certain set of armour to partake in City seiges is a bad move and hopefully it doesn't happen that way as it just seems to be an easy way for them to extend the life of the game rather than making the end game better.
When the game came out, Mythic had my trust that this game would be fun and do well.
With every decision and change they make, from the changes to itemization, to the changes in gear progression, to the changes to EXP and renown calculations in scenarios, they lose a little bit of my trust.
Why? Because these are kneejerk changes that are so ridiculously near-sighted, it's obvious that Mythic isn't actually thinking before they make decisions, they are simply scrambling to appeal to six different audiences with no clear direction as to where the game is going or what their intentions are.
Perfect example is pre-release compared to now. Gear isn't important? Sounds good. Can do everything in PvP and do well? Perfect. Campaign system pits your entire realm against the other entire realm in massive PvP battles where an entire realm can contribute to the endgame, killing a king? Awesome.
All empty marketing slogans. ALL of them. Gear means little? Pretty obviously not their design plan. Everything in PvP? Not when the gear most important is gotten through pure PvE. Campaign makes it so everyone contributes? Not with this system. Sure, maybe I'll be part of the random zerg to take zones, but when push comes to shove and the realm needs to take a fort, I won't be able to even touch the Fort Lord without dieing.
Now, I have no question that this will be changed. Mythic would have to be, well, idiots not to change it after 75% of their playerbase paniced at the sign of this news.
That's not the point. The point is, decisions like this which are so near-sighted I can't even comprehend them making it past the concept stage are obviously signs of panic and the fact that Mythic doesn't have the presence of mind to realize this was a stupid idea only makes me trust them less.
At release, I thought this game was amazing. Now that I've experienced what the 'endgame' has to offer, I realize this game is far from amazing, it's not even complete yet. What's worse, every time a Dev. speaks to the defence of the game or the plans they have for the future, I lose even more faith. If a Dev. can't even spin their own game enough to make it at least sound a bit less like the POS it's becoming, it means it's time to cancel.
Whats worse is that people are still high on all the media they put out to soften you all up before release.
The direction this game is now going is Different to the one promised and you all know it.
Everyone finally realised that the game can only hold you a very short time before coming repetitive (more so than other mmo's) mythic knew this and made the game with impossible time sinks to keep you longer whilst jacobs fathoms the failure of not having official forums int he 21st century..
You've been constantly flaming this game before release, at release, and post release. Your post history shows you making a thread saying you cancelled your preorder and not being there at release. You have 100's of posts doing nothing but flaming the game or the people that enjoy it, with short breaks praising AoC. Now you are saying you thought the game was amazing at release until you found out what the endgame was?
I don't buy this agenda you keep pushing. Didn't buy it months ago, not buying it now.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Ok, people don't need a certain set of armor to take part in city-sieges or "king"/faction leader fights at all. Do the sets have bonuses that will help in said situations? Of course, that's called "item/gear progression" and is standard for all MMOs.
They also did NOT make any changes to XP/Renown in Scenarios, except to increase them. I have a feeling what you are refering to is the recent changes that they made to Renown and XP gains in World, Skirmish, and Objective RvR/PvP. Those changes were only increases to XP and Renown in said situations and did NOT affect Renown and XP gain in scenarios at all. So, either you are misinformed, or are trying to pass off an increase in XP and Renown as a bad thing???
They also NEVER said that gear will not be a factor in RvR/PvP. They said it won't have as much as impact as it does in games like WoW, and it doesn't. Leveling, and gaining new gear that corresponds to your new level DOES have an affect, of course and that should be expected. And gaining Renown Rank levels is no different then gaining normal levels, and you get better gear as you go. it's called progression and the game would be totally boring without it.
I also have an issue with your statements that you thought the game was great at launch. You're lying, I took a look at your post history and you have been flaming WAR all along, all the way back to July you have nothing but negative posts regarding WAR, who are you trying to kid?
to everyone complaining about the "RAIDS"- the sets are trash unless you have all of them........in 1.1 we will have RvR influence which will keep RvR gear on par with PQs (hopefully)
ohh man I CANT BELIEVE mythic they are putting content into their game which will add to the expirence of PvEers
man Mythic how could you....
(There may be a lot of negativity of these fourms but servers are still running with plenty of people to group and RvR with no DOOM call from me)
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
sounds true enough, just found this small post
warherald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war
and it seems that it isn't required that you've got the amour but the amoursets are basically made for that type of highlevel enemies so yeah chances are you'll be ripped to pieces without hehe
Mr Doom and Gloom might also want to read this a bit more closely. They added the Ward ability to additional sets so they are available from both PvE and PvP. Time to move along. Nothing more to see here....
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
Well popular opinion according to other forums around the web is that this is a bad idea and it is turning the game into more like WoW - expect their this stuff is done better.
where is the PvP progression, why do we have to gather up each lot of gear to do the end game which is mainly PvE.
its a grinder and the drop rates are major suck
ditto. thats not the main issue but it did help on my decision to stop playing when free month runs out.
Well popular opinion according to other forums around the web is that this is a bad idea and it is turning the game into more like WoW - expect their this stuff is done better.
where is the PvP progression, why do we have to gather up each lot of gear to do the end game which is mainly PvE.
its a grinder and the drop rates are major suck
Depends on what class you play. And it just makes it easier. Doesnt mean its not possible without the armor.
If your character is that pathetic maybe it needs to stay out of endgame.
I'm very concerned about this as well. I do not want to grind for armor. That looks like a vertical, stupid grind. Maybe that one guy was right- perhaps FPS is the only place for people like me tired of grinding for gear.
Just not right man- why isnt it enough people grind 40 ranks to hit end game. Then get smacked in the face with an outrageous forced PVE grind
Would like more input on this. Will help me to decide to stick with it or bail now before my free month is out
Why are people surprised and acting like this is something new? Everyone knew that raiding was part of the original design and of course items matter. I knew Warhammer was gonna be a WoW clone which is why I passed on it.
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
It's not the 'no PvE' issue, it is the 'you have to PvE to be competitive in RvR' that is turning people off.
As to where people came up with this crap... straight from Mark Jacobs:
"If you’re looking for the best RvR [Realm vs. Realm] in any online game, you come to “Warhammer.” This is what we do well. This is the most core reason to play our game. If you’re looking for the latest and greatest RvR of any MMO, you come to play our game."
It is turning out that RvR isn't the core of the game, but PvE. Mtyhic said you could progress your character from start to finish just by RvR if you wanted to; I'm sure you could, but it would be like saying you could swim to China - you probably could, but it would be very hard. Right now PvE is the best mechanism for getting gear - not just these epic sets - which leaves RvR out in the cold.
It was NEVER supposed to be PVP game ... yes PVP is a big part of the endgame but they never said there would be no PVE. in fact they always said you would be able to get equal level gear from PVP or PVE.
where people come up with thsi crap I will never understand.
It's not the 'no PvE' issue, it is the 'you have to PvE to be competitive in RvR' that is turning people off.
As to where people came up with this crap... straight from Mark Jacobs:
"If you’re looking for the best RvR [Realm vs. Realm] in any online game, you come to “Warhammer.” This is what we do well. This is the most core reason to play our game. If you’re looking for the latest and greatest RvR of any MMO, you come to play our game."
It is turning out that RvR isn't the core of the game, but PvE. Mtyhic said you could progress your character from start to finish just by RvR if you wanted to; I'm sure you could, but it would be like saying you could swim to China - you probably could, but it would be very hard. Right now PvE is the best mechanism for getting gear - not just these epic sets - which leaves RvR out in the cold.
Why are you lying so obviously?
Are you just sadly misinformed or is it intentional?
The best gear in form of armor sets can come from EITHER PvE OR RvR encounters.
Or are you maybe saying that keep sieging and RvR PQ encounters involving player opposition are somehow PvE and not RvR?
Maybe those armor sets should drop off randomly from players or bought by effing scenario tokens for them to be "proper" RvR? You have no idea whatsoever what RvR means.
Wtf are you talking about? Why do you lie?
The original text states quite clearly how you get those sets and it is perfectly clear that one half of them are obtained through endgeme RvR. What do you want? Arena rating system? Are you insane?
The only thing I wish to add to the conversation.
End game is not broken. The Cities were sieged when players had mass exploited a series of bugs to advance the campaign forward.
Thats all.
A lot of information in this thread is intentionally misleading.
People that jumped up and down screaming like OP, Pheace... have 0 experience in City siege. ZERO, NOTHING... All they do is nitpicking the grab bag and make it sounds like the sky is falling.
This is FACT and this FACT has been proven: "You don't need any of those set armors to successfully siege a capital city". There are nothing "REQUIRED" whatsoever.
Proof: Remember the Altdorf raid on server Averheim? There were none of this gear progression crap. They had done none of this PvE gear raid/grind crap. Not all their raider were 40. Their gears were nothing special. They charged into Altdorf with none of these complete gear sets, only skills and very high degree of coordination. They were able to do all PQs. They were able to kill almost all sub-boss except the bugged one.
What does it tell you? You don't have to do any of the gear grind crap to enjoy end-game city siege. Saying so and so sets are required to do something is a complete LIE because people have done it without them. Saying PvE raid, gear progression,... are required to participate in end-game city siege is a complete LIE because people have done it without them.
Frankly, I don't think that people like OP doesn't know better. I just think that they purposely push these issues for their own agenda.
I agree, I avidly play WAR and yeah, gear makes a bit of a difference, but you don't need to best of the best to do sieges or even to be in a warband to kill a King. It helps, sure, but its not required. That's like saying that you must have a calculator to do math. Yeh, it helps, but it's really not required.
so you guys got two pieces of annihilator gear that are available from vendors and AH and say the system is super fine because of that?
Return when you have at least a whole annihilator set lol, which is just the beginning of this stupid chain
the other pieces, which you'll have to roll against 10-100 people for, IF a gold bag drops. The first time some random guy who walked up at the end, hits the lord once and wins it you'll be looking to just pve for your pieces.
That's sort of the point that people are making. This is a game that overwhelmingly rewards pve. That is not something that people can make an intelligent argument against. Farming pve instances with a 6 man is far more effective for getting gear than keep sieges. I could have sworn that I read/heard something about gear not being the only thing important in WAR, but that may just have been wishful thinking.
Pve is the centerpiece of a "pvp" game, and the pve is nothing special. If changes are made soon, the problems are acknowledged and general outlines on how to fix it are disseminated then this game has a chance. Otherwise, why play a pve centric game with pvp tacked on?
Wow is flat out better at that model of play and they will implement everything that is successful/fun that War comes up with.
I think the thing is, most people see this, along with other realizations as an indication that the development team is woefully disconnected with what the players want. Sure, they might rectify their mistakes afterward, but that basically forces the player into a very uneven experience.
Today, game is borked due to xxx.
Next month, game is better because xxx was changed.
Month after, game is borked due to yyy.
Constantly releasing stuff to try to feel out the audience, and then correcting it later doesn't work for a live game. It works great in Beta, or if you have a Test server. But the Live game is for stable additions to your game, and require that you have considered the ramifications to your actions. Surely someone had to think "I think people might get upset if they realize that we are adding an artificial cockblock in the form of gear farming" when this idea came up. That person was obviously shouted down, and that leads one to believe that in the future, more decisions that are antithetical to this games general premise may come about.
And that is why everyone is up in arms.
You basically just described every MMO in existance that isn't a sandbox game. If all you do is plan to constantly RvR in the lakes it'd be impossible not to collect all the gear set for RvR .... if you plan to farm Scenarios well then your screwing yourself guess people who like to PvP should do something other than play mini games if they want the gear. If they don't want the gear and just want to mini game it wont matter much about the gear anyway since the only reason to get the set is to have an extra advantage over the King and a couple of high level mobs. THe gear isn't necessary to win but you know drama queens will be drama queens.
I'm not even sure why the OP cares he hated this game before it even launched.
Teh, Paul hyper hyper Barnet lied about many things. Some folks really should watch his movies again, comparing it to reality will cause a great laugh. Or cry, as your mentality works. Its an entire telephone book of lies, misleading and failed concepts. People who were hyped have for very human reasons a difficult time to admit it. I can understand that. If you loved something its hard to say "I was wrong", for me like for any other guy. But truth be told, WAR is altogether a mediocre borefest. Some just take a bit longer to realize. Be patient with them. Understanding comes in due time.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Teh, Paul hyper hyper Barnet lied about many things. Some folks really should watch his movies again, comparing it to reality will cause a great laugh. Or cry, as your mentality works. Its an entire telephone book of lies, misleading and failed concepts. People who were hyped have for very human reasons a difficult time to admit it. I can understand that. If you loved something its hard to say "I was wrong", for me like for any other guy. But truth be told, WAR is altogether a mediocre borefest. Some just take a bit longer to realize. Be patient with them. Understanding comes in due time.
Your just angry it doesn't cater to your RP Lord of the Rings type nature..please move on.
Paul Barnett lied about a lot of things.
Paul Barnett lied about a lot of things.
Funny you don't hear from him so much anymore...
I think this has been said already, but the OP and his supporters are not using their brains too well.
The 'raid' gear is directed towards those who want to get into end game raiding. The reduction pieces allow for guilds/people who want to raid to get a sense of progression (i.e. need X gear before you can move on to Y gear successfully). It does NOT say you NEED these raid pieces to be successful in the casual aspects of WAR, namely casual PvE dungeons, quests, open RVR (keeps etc.) and scenarios.
This gear is in place for those who do enjoy raiding and do want to raid, it's not mandetory and it does not give anyone a particularly unfair advantage over the casuals (unlike WoW). It gives special bonuses against RAIDING mobs and bosses, not normal areas (like you who like to complain so much), so you wont have people in 'l33t epix' owning the people who don't have the time to farm it.
Work on reading what is really being said, please. Mythic is just giving people as many options as they can to benefit different play styles while hopefully not gimping others.
I hit reply before I see your post. Couln't have said it better my self.