Your first incorrect assumption is that all subscribers in WoW pay in US dollar
Second you assume everyone pays the same $15 across the board.
I am fairly sure that players in asia pay much less than that. Also those revenues are shared with hosting companies over there.
Third you can't just randomly cut $5 off $15 and call it conservative. You are just making a blind guess.
Personally I have had anywhere between 2-4 accounts active all year and my total cost to play has been $11 dollars, yes that has been my total cost. That came from purchasing a game time card online, which I am certain Blizzard didn't see all $11 dollars of that money. The rest of my subscription time has been free. 100% free.
You can disbelieve their numbers by making up some simple math that somehow proves your theories, but other metrics say you are dead wrong. 3 titles in the best selling PC software category for almost 4 years straight (well since BC at least). 475 US/Eurpean active servers for the 4.5+ million subscribers Blizzard claims to be in that region. Do you know just how many players it takes to fill those servers up?
Maybe by your simple math things do not look right, but everything that discounts your wildly speculative numbers looks to be true.
Yeah well the people who left WoW for WAR and or AoC. I don't play WoW it was dumb IMHO and i gave it a start up once and found out it was EQ in a new wrapper. But yeah i know the people who did play it and gave it a chance will come back and WAR and AoC will be ghost town MMO's
Age of Conan and Warhammer Online is already a ghost town. Where the hell have you been?. I have a few friends and family members who quit within the two weeks of playing because the two games are lame as hell.
mmorpg's flop faster then mcdonalds cheese burgers these days.
Thank you for your post, not lets re-examine those numbers. First lets take into my account of the numbers then and adjust, lets drop the number to an average of $5 per month per active subscription. In others words $660 per year. The reports BTW are all done in US dollars and so that is what we must work in.
With this incredible low number in mind we still find that this number of subscriptions generates more supposed income than the PC division of Activision Blizzard. Now remember WoW is NOT the only title Blizzard prodcues so i am sure some percentage, probably small is from other titles. Additionally you have to realize that purchase of an expansion would not be money directed toward the subscription number as an addition so we must discount that percentage of the PC division income as well.
Next comes the very issue we are looking at as well, Blizzard has advertised this number as both subscriptions and subscribers. Now this is misleading since it gives the sense that currently there are 11 million individuals playing WoW. A number based on what you said alone is OBVIOUSLY untrue. I find it hard to believe you are the only person with multiple accounts.
Being a best selling title for three years means a lot of sales of that I have no doubt, I do not in any way doubt that Blizzard has sold 11 million copies. But does that sales number really mean active players, lets get real. The average MMO player stays with a game what, about 7 months to a year? That means a ton of players over the years has been lost. Also I have found that most MMOs do not keep all the people that buy the game after the first month, so I think it is safe to say a fair number of those 11 million bought the game, it was not for them and moved on. With this in mind yearly sales figures are not ANY kind of accurate indicator of active players.
You asked if I know how many players it takes to fill the servers, no I do not, do you?
My math may be simple but it does show the issue, sure the numbers will have to be adjusted for various factors but in the end in NO WAY can Blizzard show the number of active users at the level they state and make it line up with their financial statements.
I am sure many people enjoy playing WOW. I have no doubt it likely has the current largest active player base of any MMO out there. But to give such outrageous numbers, in other words lie, one has to wonder why.
I personally do not enjoy Wow. I have MANY friends and family that do and I say more power to them. However in the end they keep using the reason WoW is great is just look at how many people play it. I keep trying to explain to them, first the number and not accurate and second the number does NOT mean the game is great. Look at how many people play solitare world wide, I am sure MANY more than what play Wow and Solitare is not what I would call a great game.
In the end I think It would be interesting to see Blizzard come forward with a serious breakdown of the numbers, show the public, which they should do as a publically traded company, how this all works out. But in the end it is easier for them I guess to put more spin on their numbers than either the democrats of the republicans have ever done.
Daffid011, Thank you for your post, not lets re-examine those numbers. First lets take into my account of the numbers then and adjust, lets drop the number to an average of $5 per month per active subscription. In others words $660 per year. The reports BTW are all done in US dollars and so that is what we must work in. With this incredible low number in mind we still find that this number of subscriptions generates more supposed income than the PC division of Activision Blizzard. Now remember WoW is NOT the only title Blizzard prodcues so i am sure some percentage, probably small is from other titles. Additionally you have to realize that purchase of an expansion would not be money directed toward the subscription number as an addition so we must discount that percentage of the PC division income as well. Next comes the very issue we are looking at as well, Blizzard has advertised this number as both subscriptions and subscribers. Now this is misleading since it gives the sense that currently there are 11 million individuals playing WoW. A number based on what you said alone is OBVIOUSLY untrue. I find it hard to believe you are the only person with multiple accounts. Being a best selling title for three years means a lot of sales of that I have no doubt, I do not in any way doubt that Blizzard has sold 11 million copies. But does that sales number really mean active players, lets get real. The average MMO player stays with a game what, about 7 months to a year? That means a ton of players over the years has been lost. Also I have found that most MMOs do not keep all the people that buy the game after the first month, so I think it is safe to say a fair number of those 11 million bought the game, it was not for them and moved on. With this in mind yearly sales figures are not ANY kind of accurate indicator of active players. You asked if I know how many players it takes to fill the servers, no I do not, do you? My math may be simple but it does show the issue, sure the numbers will have to be adjusted for various factors but in the end in NO WAY can Blizzard show the number of active users at the level they state and make it line up with their financial statements. I am sure many people enjoy playing WOW. I have no doubt it likely has the current largest active player base of any MMO out there. But to give such outrageous numbers, in other words lie, one has to wonder why. I personally do not enjoy Wow. I have MANY friends and family that do and I say more power to them. However in the end they keep using the reason WoW is great is just look at how many people play it. I keep trying to explain to them, first the number and not accurate and second the number does NOT mean the game is great. Look at how many people play solitare world wide, I am sure MANY more than what play Wow and Solitare is not what I would call a great game. In the end I think It would be interesting to see Blizzard come forward with a serious breakdown of the numbers, show the public, which they should do as a publically traded company, how this all works out. But in the end it is easier for them I guess to put more spin on their numbers than either the democrats of the republicans have ever done.
Blizzard has stated time and time again that the 11 million number is active paying accounts. I don't know how much clearer they can be about this. Not 11 million copies sold, but 11 million accounts that in the past 30 days had an active subscription. There is a list somewhere around that shows rough total units sold and it is much higher than 11 million. It was a list of best selling software and I'll see if I can't find it. If I'm not mistaken it was taken from NPD figures?
Also I don't think they are claiming 11 million unique individuals playing the game, but that often does get misrepresented here on the forums by posters. I wouldn't doubt I've made the same mistake in a tongue in cheek sort of way.
Now I don't know what the blizzard computer division has listed as the gross income or how they report earnings even in the slightest. Maybe if you supplied some of those figures it would make a little more sense of what you are getting at. Are you looking at quarterly reports or annuals? Right now all you seem to be doing is multiplying 11 million times some figure and producing a results from that when compared to a number that you don't list.
Maybe you have a good point, but with so many unknowns in your post it is hard to follow your logic.
Using the net revenue figures with the costs fo expenditures it is fairly EASY to show the gorss income. Why is this so hard for people to look at or understand. If you have a set number of so called active accounts, you figure out a probably average income per account so you can consider accountings brining in less than $15 per month and you use the adjusted estimated avergae against the so called subscriber base to get a rought indicagtor of the potential gross income that the company would recieve from ONLY WoW. A further examination of the breakdown shows that the net income listed is company wide and that the console division is by FAR the largest contributer to the income listed.
When you take what is left over after the console sales you need to then consider that a percentage of that income must come from other products than just WoW, unless they no longer sell anything esle for the PC market. The numbere you have left should come up near the estimate and yet it is WAY short why it that?
Because Blizzard lies and does not have 11 million plus active accounts. It is fairly simple math for anyone willing to actually think it through. The math is amazingly simple and I am even more amazed that the WoW fan base ignores it. Enjoy your game sure but to buy into an obvious marketting lie?
Here is the most recent financial report for Activision Blizzard. http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1104659-08-50976 Using the net revenue figures with the costs fo expenditures it is fairly EASY to show the gorss income. Why is this so hard for people to look at or understand. If you have a set number of so called active accounts, you figure out a probably average income per account so you can consider accountings brining in less than $15 per month and you use the adjusted estimated avergae against the so called subscriber base to get a rought indicagtor of the potential gross income that the company would recieve from ONLY WoW. A further examination of the breakdown shows that the net income listed is company wide and that the console division is by FAR the largest contributer to the income listed. When you take what is left over after the console sales you need to then consider that a percentage of that income must come from other products than just WoW, unless they no longer sell anything esle for the PC market. The numbere you have left should come up near the estimate and yet it is WAY short why it that? Because Blizzard lies and does not have 11 million plus active accounts. It is fairly simple math for anyone willing to actually think it through. The math is amazingly simple and I am even more amazed that the WoW fan base ignores it. Enjoy your game sure but to buy into an obvious marketting lie?
So umm thank you for the link to the financial reports, which I have already admitted is an area that I am not very well versed in. Since you are the one making claims based on some math with figured taken out of there, could you be so kind as to point out those numbers and where they might be found?
I just don't want to guess or assume what numbers you are basing your math off of when you can point them out quicker and more accuratly than anyone else might. I'm not trying to spin this or put an angle on it, it would just be easier and more concise if you stated the actual numbers instead of expecting people to research and guess what you are using as a basis.
I don't think there is any way for me to type this over the internets without it coming off as harsh or aggressive. That is not my intention and I am very genuinly interested in hearing your numbers play out.
Daff to be honest I hate the fact that the internet makes peopel stop doing their own research and instead have others do it for them. The document is fairly easy to read and the math behind this is very basic. I have given a source for the base information and provided an explination of my position, I really do not want to spend the time teaching basic math in a forum.
I know this will be spun as I cannot do it but we all know that is not the case and that this is just spin. So please feel free to spin as you wish but the spin does change the facts and Blizzard needs to explain why their financails do not match their subscription claims.
Daff to be honest I hate the fact that the internet makes peopel stop doing their own research and instead have others do it for them. The document is fairly easy to read and the math behind this is very basic. I have given a source for the base information and provided an explination of my position, I really do not want to spend the time teaching basic math in a forum. I know this will be spun as I cannot do it but we all know that is not the case and that this is just spin. So please feel free to spin as you wish but the spin does change the facts and Blizzard needs to explain why their financails do not match their subscription claims.
Hey all I ask is that if you want to make claims at least have the integrity to post that information you talk about and not make everyone do your homework for you. Even your math teacher would have asked for you to show your work and not just show the results.
I don't understand why you expect every single person who might read your opinion to do the research needed to prove what you are claiming. Remember, this isn't everyone elses research we are talking about, this is yours. You are the one saying how so many people are missing the big obvious here. Why you just didn't show a little effort in presenting some decent information other than "Simple math proves Blizzard is liars and everyone else is stupid that doesn't see that. blah blah blah"
I honestly found what you said very interesting but for whatever reason, you have decided to hate everyone for not looking up the information you could easily type in a few minutes. Heaven forbid the entire internet doesn't drop what they are doing to research your less that information filled opinions.
For some reason when I played and was on one of the 3 most populated servers at practically all hrs it didn't seem like a population of 11mil divided onto all these servers really added up. The population seemed quite empty to be honest. Even in places such as main towns such as SW. I remember EQ at around PoP expansion seemed to have more players on there server and EQs sub numbers are suppose to be around 400-500k around that time.
Havin' a hard time swallowin' these massive numbers? Here ya go....a site that tells the population on EVERY single server. This is ONE of the two servers I play on:
WoWJutsu keeps tabs on guild progression, active players, guild rankings, Alliance:Horde pop ratios, etc. Have a look. It's easy to see how many people ARE playing.
Oh, and just an FYI, Blizzard has so MANY servers, that I couldn't COUNT them all. I tried. I about went blind. Look for yourself, then multiply about 10k or more players per that many realms. I think you'll see the numbers very rapidly add up.
Whether people who post on MMORPG.com LIKE the game or not....whether some of the elitists think it's a GOOD game or not (whoever the hell defines what good is for people other than themSELVES, I don't know)....there is ONE thing that cannot be argued, and that is the MASSIVE number of players, and the success of Blizzard.
Anyone can make a site and make up false pop numbers. Experience speaks louder than words and the experience did not show these high , magical pop numbers.
Comments
Thank you for sharing Mopar.
Your first incorrect assumption is that all subscribers in WoW pay in US dollar
Second you assume everyone pays the same $15 across the board.
I am fairly sure that players in asia pay much less than that. Also those revenues are shared with hosting companies over there.
Third you can't just randomly cut $5 off $15 and call it conservative. You are just making a blind guess.
Personally I have had anywhere between 2-4 accounts active all year and my total cost to play has been $11 dollars, yes that has been my total cost. That came from purchasing a game time card online, which I am certain Blizzard didn't see all $11 dollars of that money. The rest of my subscription time has been free. 100% free.
You can disbelieve their numbers by making up some simple math that somehow proves your theories, but other metrics say you are dead wrong. 3 titles in the best selling PC software category for almost 4 years straight (well since BC at least). 475 US/Eurpean active servers for the 4.5+ million subscribers Blizzard claims to be in that region. Do you know just how many players it takes to fill those servers up?
Maybe by your simple math things do not look right, but everything that discounts your wildly speculative numbers looks to be true.
Yeah well the people who left WoW for WAR and or AoC. I don't play WoW it was dumb IMHO and i gave it a start up once and found out it was EQ in a new wrapper. But yeah i know the people who did play it and gave it a chance will come back and WAR and AoC will be ghost town MMO's
Age of Conan and Warhammer Online is already a ghost town. Where the hell have you been?. I have a few friends and family members who quit within the two weeks of playing because the two games are lame as hell.
mmorpg's flop faster then mcdonalds cheese burgers these days.
Daffid011,
Thank you for your post, not lets re-examine those numbers. First lets take into my account of the numbers then and adjust, lets drop the number to an average of $5 per month per active subscription. In others words $660 per year. The reports BTW are all done in US dollars and so that is what we must work in.
With this incredible low number in mind we still find that this number of subscriptions generates more supposed income than the PC division of Activision Blizzard. Now remember WoW is NOT the only title Blizzard prodcues so i am sure some percentage, probably small is from other titles. Additionally you have to realize that purchase of an expansion would not be money directed toward the subscription number as an addition so we must discount that percentage of the PC division income as well.
Next comes the very issue we are looking at as well, Blizzard has advertised this number as both subscriptions and subscribers. Now this is misleading since it gives the sense that currently there are 11 million individuals playing WoW. A number based on what you said alone is OBVIOUSLY untrue. I find it hard to believe you are the only person with multiple accounts.
Being a best selling title for three years means a lot of sales of that I have no doubt, I do not in any way doubt that Blizzard has sold 11 million copies. But does that sales number really mean active players, lets get real. The average MMO player stays with a game what, about 7 months to a year? That means a ton of players over the years has been lost. Also I have found that most MMOs do not keep all the people that buy the game after the first month, so I think it is safe to say a fair number of those 11 million bought the game, it was not for them and moved on. With this in mind yearly sales figures are not ANY kind of accurate indicator of active players.
You asked if I know how many players it takes to fill the servers, no I do not, do you?
My math may be simple but it does show the issue, sure the numbers will have to be adjusted for various factors but in the end in NO WAY can Blizzard show the number of active users at the level they state and make it line up with their financial statements.
I am sure many people enjoy playing WOW. I have no doubt it likely has the current largest active player base of any MMO out there. But to give such outrageous numbers, in other words lie, one has to wonder why.
I personally do not enjoy Wow. I have MANY friends and family that do and I say more power to them. However in the end they keep using the reason WoW is great is just look at how many people play it. I keep trying to explain to them, first the number and not accurate and second the number does NOT mean the game is great. Look at how many people play solitare world wide, I am sure MANY more than what play Wow and Solitare is not what I would call a great game.
In the end I think It would be interesting to see Blizzard come forward with a serious breakdown of the numbers, show the public, which they should do as a publically traded company, how this all works out. But in the end it is easier for them I guess to put more spin on their numbers than either the democrats of the republicans have ever done.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
Blizzard has stated time and time again that the 11 million number is active paying accounts. I don't know how much clearer they can be about this. Not 11 million copies sold, but 11 million accounts that in the past 30 days had an active subscription. There is a list somewhere around that shows rough total units sold and it is much higher than 11 million. It was a list of best selling software and I'll see if I can't find it. If I'm not mistaken it was taken from NPD figures?
Also I don't think they are claiming 11 million unique individuals playing the game, but that often does get misrepresented here on the forums by posters. I wouldn't doubt I've made the same mistake in a tongue in cheek sort of way.
Now I don't know what the blizzard computer division has listed as the gross income or how they report earnings even in the slightest. Maybe if you supplied some of those figures it would make a little more sense of what you are getting at. Are you looking at quarterly reports or annuals? Right now all you seem to be doing is multiplying 11 million times some figure and producing a results from that when compared to a number that you don't list.
Maybe you have a good point, but with so many unknowns in your post it is hard to follow your logic.
So... a lot of people play WoW. Nothing more, nothing less.
Here is the most recent financial report for Activision Blizzard.
http://investor.activision.com/secfiling.cfm?filingID=1104659-08-50976
Using the net revenue figures with the costs fo expenditures it is fairly EASY to show the gorss income. Why is this so hard for people to look at or understand. If you have a set number of so called active accounts, you figure out a probably average income per account so you can consider accountings brining in less than $15 per month and you use the adjusted estimated avergae against the so called subscriber base to get a rought indicagtor of the potential gross income that the company would recieve from ONLY WoW. A further examination of the breakdown shows that the net income listed is company wide and that the console division is by FAR the largest contributer to the income listed.
When you take what is left over after the console sales you need to then consider that a percentage of that income must come from other products than just WoW, unless they no longer sell anything esle for the PC market. The numbere you have left should come up near the estimate and yet it is WAY short why it that?
Because Blizzard lies and does not have 11 million plus active accounts. It is fairly simple math for anyone willing to actually think it through. The math is amazingly simple and I am even more amazed that the WoW fan base ignores it. Enjoy your game sure but to buy into an obvious marketting lie?
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
So umm thank you for the link to the financial reports, which I have already admitted is an area that I am not very well versed in. Since you are the one making claims based on some math with figured taken out of there, could you be so kind as to point out those numbers and where they might be found?
I just don't want to guess or assume what numbers you are basing your math off of when you can point them out quicker and more accuratly than anyone else might. I'm not trying to spin this or put an angle on it, it would just be easier and more concise if you stated the actual numbers instead of expecting people to research and guess what you are using as a basis.
I don't think there is any way for me to type this over the internets without it coming off as harsh or aggressive. That is not my intention and I am very genuinly interested in hearing your numbers play out.
Daff to be honest I hate the fact that the internet makes peopel stop doing their own research and instead have others do it for them. The document is fairly easy to read and the math behind this is very basic. I have given a source for the base information and provided an explination of my position, I really do not want to spend the time teaching basic math in a forum.
I know this will be spun as I cannot do it but we all know that is not the case and that this is just spin. So please feel free to spin as you wish but the spin does change the facts and Blizzard needs to explain why their financails do not match their subscription claims.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
Hey all I ask is that if you want to make claims at least have the integrity to post that information you talk about and not make everyone do your homework for you. Even your math teacher would have asked for you to show your work and not just show the results.
I don't understand why you expect every single person who might read your opinion to do the research needed to prove what you are claiming. Remember, this isn't everyone elses research we are talking about, this is yours. You are the one saying how so many people are missing the big obvious here. Why you just didn't show a little effort in presenting some decent information other than "Simple math proves Blizzard is liars and everyone else is stupid that doesn't see that. blah blah blah"
I honestly found what you said very interesting but for whatever reason, you have decided to hate everyone for not looking up the information you could easily type in a few minutes. Heaven forbid the entire internet doesn't drop what they are doing to research your less that information filled opinions.
Havin' a hard time swallowin' these massive numbers? Here ya go....a site that tells the population on EVERY single server. This is ONE of the two servers I play on:
Lothar - Population 13,533
http://www.wowjutsu.com/us/lothar/
WoWJutsu keeps tabs on guild progression, active players, guild rankings, Alliance:Horde pop ratios, etc. Have a look. It's easy to see how many people ARE playing.
Oh, and just an FYI, Blizzard has so MANY servers, that I couldn't COUNT them all. I tried. I about went blind. Look for yourself, then multiply about 10k or more players per that many realms. I think you'll see the numbers very rapidly add up.
Realm Status page:
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/realmstatus/
Whether people who post on MMORPG.com LIKE the game or not....whether some of the elitists think it's a GOOD game or not (whoever the hell defines what good is for people other than themSELVES, I don't know)....there is ONE thing that cannot be argued, and that is the MASSIVE number of players, and the success of Blizzard.
Anyone can make a site and make up false pop numbers. Experience speaks louder than words and the experience did not show these high , magical pop numbers.