I don't quite agree with the poster's view on level less MMO. It is interesting to go in a new direction, but if a game is out that you can achieve your max potential on day one as far as character development goes, I probably won't play for more than a week.
Character development is essential for MMO, even if you take the levels away, you will still need some form of character development, other wise most people might be bored pretty fast after creating all sort of character in a few days, the game would be left with a small amount of enthusiasts. The developer need to make enough money to justify making a game, other wise it is just a crushing loss, and also means some people lose their jobs.
Here is an example of a level less mmo conversation (assuming the archetype of current mmo is still in effect) :
Player A: Wow, that boss was hard.
Player B: Seriously, I can't believe I was one shotted.
Player A: Yeah, I think we need to find more people for this.
Player C: How hard was the boss?
Player A: Very hard.
Player C: About how hard?
Player B: Hmmm, I don't quite know how to put it.
Player C: What do you mean? There as to be a way to describe it.
Player B: I'd say it is stronger than us.
Player C: Ummm, I kinda guessed that.
Player A: I am starting to miss the level system.
GM: I am sorry, this game does not have the notion of leveling. This level talk is considered inappropriate, you three shall be jailed for 12 hours starting now.
Compared to fighting level 80 monsters while being level 70? In most games you reach a point where you can't grind out more levels and levelling becomes pointless. And for a lot of people this is where the game really "starts". Why not simply skip ahead to this stage and not waste all of that time and effort getting to max level, or even desiging content for those lower levels?
1. Above example is really only to show that the level system is a reference used for the entire game, and not just your character. Removing level system is fine, but someone has to come up with another replacement reference system. (Unless you work as a game developer, it is always easier say than done)
2. READ WHAT I WROTE in the previous reply. Game developers NEED to make money, which means they want to keep you playing for as long as possible. This means they will not allow you to cake walk to level cap in any MMORPG. Sure, they can remove the level system, but it won't remove the grind. (It is just replaced by something else to grind)
3. Taking away the level system is fine with me, however, no level doesn't mean you get to do endgame content instantly. It will just become a series of harder requirements to complete before doing certain endgame stuff (except it is not endgame since you can do it from day one). Why? Easy, because the level system is gone, and so changes the whole flow of a MMORPG. (Developer has to maintain profit somehow)
4. The true problem is not the level system, it is only being complained about because it is an easy target. The real problem is lack of interesting gameplay to guide people through the levels and into endgame without being tedious. (Sadly, no MMORPG thus far can be considered as doing a good job at this) However, majority of Asian communities enjoy the process of grinding. The value of "Work for your achievements" means alot more in the Asian population.
5. Lastly, by removing the level system without replacing or modify the game to a great extent, the game will end up more similar to an online action game than a MMORPG. Those numbers aren't going to crunch themselves, and without a system of measurements, math is... well... HARD.
Example of a level less system: (using current MMORPG archetype)
No levels, character earn basic stat bonus with points accumulated from quests, killing monsters, etc etc. (By now the programmer is crying due to the amount of math needed to make this level free)
There are variety of skills, stronger skills is either obtained from using previous weaker skills, or by spending alot more points to obtain stronger version. (Now the game designer crys trying balance the points and the rate a skill can be obtained, calculating various limiting factors that will balance out the game without a level limit imposed, and make sure players get at least enough points to spend on essential skills)
Class or no class doesn't matter, since your basic stat and w/e stat bonus you spend your points on determines what type of character you are. (Game designer crys with the programmers trying to figure out a way for party, PvP, or boss fight to be challenging while allow for no class no level system to work) P.S If you don't know how hard this is, then lucky you.
So on and so forth... I have typed long enough. Those that doesn't get it still won't get it anyways.
Conclusion:
Remove level system is fine, but unless you come up with a working system to do it (Take in development cost/time and calcuations that need to be done), then stop. MMORPG is not for you. If you do get a working system however, then praise the lord.
I agree that it would be a challenge. I dont think it would be as difficult as all that though. Partly as I mean a game with no levels and no skills. You design your character at creation and choose all skills and talents. Would have to be easier to maintain and code if hey dont have to code for all the changes through levels and skills.
What their would be though is a buff system where you use it more ( like skills) you get more and more buffed in that area... but not forever , it would wear off when not in use rather quickly.
That would go for everything including crafting.
As for balancing it with content, that would be just making the experiance more realistic. As I had mentioned needing food to maintain health so you can adventure. That would require someone in the group with a ranger type skill so they can track prey. As the animals would not all group together in pack awaiting slaughter allong trails. Hunting should be a true challenge. Sight, smell and sound should all come into play.
Also as previously mentioned, the weather would be a challenge in it's self. It should affect the character as it does in real life. If it is cold and you get in the water... you better have a change of clothes and a fire to get to fast or it may be game over. I fit is hot as hell and you decide to take a stroll in the desert with one canteen of water, don't be surprised when you see crows flying circles arround you.
The drive would be exploration and the difficulties of said exploration. Not to mention after your difficult journey and you find something new to explore you would need to be rested and prepared enough for whatever encounters you may face.
Now I would think that the difficulty in that would be more towoard the weather and the realisim. Rather than the removal of the need to track every single persons progression through the spectrum of levels. And then apply each individual stat and skill boost durring each roll for each lvl for each player in the battle, especially when you get into the buffs from player to player that vary from lvl to lvl.
Their will be all types of players with all different skill sets but atleast they will know that if this player has this skill it will have the same effect throughout the game and will not need to filtered by levels. Then also they can remove the need for all the extra code needed for writing all the improving clone skills for every single skill from lvl 1-cap.
Their are trade offs and difficulties, but IMO they would all be worth it to have a game that would be interesting and have actual replayability. Due to the player driven content that every player can contribute to from day 1. From battles to politics and the economy of the world. All decided by the communities decisions and actions. And all of the communities decisions could be built on by live events that the devs can come up with on a daily basis, again all based on the decisions the community has made..
Again I know it is not something on the near horrizon... but I hope somewhere out there some dev is thinking like minded and is starting to peice it together.
Shane
Yeah, the point is to create a no level system will actually make the developement process slightly more difficult. Even though there are no level, there has to have a way to upgrade the characters in place of the level system. Without level system means that it is slightly harder to manage, but at the same time remove the need for level modifier. However, the amount of restrictions needed to balance a game becomes rather complex once you take the levels out.
As for player contribution on day one. It is possible to co-exist with the level system depend on how the game is designed. Generally, it isn't as big an issue, it is based on how a game designed.
I also look forward to a revolutionary system that stray away from levels and yet maintain the playability while staying balanced. It is not something easily done, however, I do believe we are moving toward it as we speak. Since plenty of skill system that stray away from the restriction from levels now, so eventually, there might be a way to achieve no level and still remain a good MMORPG.
I don't quite agree with the poster's view on level less MMO. It is interesting to go in a new direction, but if a game is out that you can achieve your max potential on day one as far as character development goes, I probably won't play for more than a week.
Character development is essential for MMO, even if you take the levels away, you will still need some form of character development, other wise most people might be bored pretty fast after creating all sort of character in a few days, the game would be left with a small amount of enthusiasts. The developer need to make enough money to justify making a game, other wise it is just a crushing loss, and also means some people lose their jobs.
Here is an example of a level less mmo conversation (assuming the archetype of current mmo is still in effect) :
Player A: Wow, that boss was hard.
Player B: Seriously, I can't believe I was one shotted.
Player A: Yeah, I think we need to find more people for this.
Player C: How hard was the boss?
Player A: Very hard.
Player C: About how hard?
Player B: Hmmm, I don't quite know how to put it.
Player C: What do you mean? There as to be a way to describe it.
Player B: I'd say it is stronger than us.
Player C: Ummm, I kinda guessed that.
Player A: I am starting to miss the level system.
GM: I am sorry, this game does not have the notion of leveling. This level talk is considered inappropriate, you three shall be jailed for 12 hours starting now.
Compared to fighting level 80 monsters while being level 70? In most games you reach a point where you can't grind out more levels and levelling becomes pointless. And for a lot of people this is where the game really "starts". Why not simply skip ahead to this stage and not waste all of that time and effort getting to max level, or even desiging content for those lower levels?
1. Above example is really only to show that the level system is a reference used for the entire game, and not just your character. Removing level system is fine, but someone has to come up with another replacement reference system. (Unless you work as a game developer, it is always easier say than done)
2. READ WHAT I WROTE in the previous reply. Game developers NEED to make money, which means they want to keep you playing for as long as possible. This means they will not allow you to cake walk to level cap in any MMORPG. Sure, they can remove the level system, but it won't remove the grind. (It is just replaced by something else to grind)
3. Taking away the level system is fine with me, however, no level doesn't mean you get to do endgame content instantly. It will just become a series of harder requirements to complete before doing certain endgame stuff (except it is not endgame since you can do it from day one). Why? Easy, because the level system is gone, and so changes the whole flow of a MMORPG. (Developer has to maintain profit somehow)
4. The true problem is not the level system, it is only being complained about because it is an easy target. The real problem is lack of interesting gameplay to guide people through the levels and into endgame without being tedious. (Sadly, no MMORPG thus far can be considered as doing a good job at this) However, majority of Asian communities enjoy the process of grinding. The value of "Work for your achievements" means alot more in the Asian population.
5. Lastly, by removing the level system without replacing or modify the game to a great extent, the game will end up more similar to an online action game than a MMORPG. Those numbers aren't going to crunch themselves, and without a system of measurements, math is... well... HARD.
Example of a level less system: (using current MMORPG archetype)
No levels, character earn basic stat bonus with points accumulated from quests, killing monsters, etc etc. (By now the programmer is crying due to the amount of math needed to make this level free)
There are variety of skills, stronger skills is either obtained from using previous weaker skills, or by spending alot more points to obtain stronger version. (Now the game designer crys trying balance the points and the rate a skill can be obtained, calculating various limiting factors that will balance out the game without a level limit imposed, and make sure players get at least enough points to spend on essential skills)
Class or no class doesn't matter, since your basic stat and w/e stat bonus you spend your points on determines what type of character you are. (Game designer crys with the programmers trying to figure out a way for party, PvP, or boss fight to be challenging while allow for no class no level system to work) P.S If you don't know how hard this is, then lucky you.
So on and so forth... I have typed long enough. Those that doesn't get it still won't get it anyways.
Conclusion:
Remove level system is fine, but unless you come up with a working system to do it (Take in development cost/time and calcuations that need to be done), then stop. MMORPG is not for you. If you do get a working system however, then praise the lord.
I agree that it would be a challenge. I dont think it would be as difficult as all that though. Partly as I mean a game with no levels and no skills. You design your character at creation and choose all skills and talents. Would have to be easier to maintain and code if hey dont have to code for all the changes through levels and skills.
What their would be though is a buff system where you use it more ( like skills) you get more and more buffed in that area... but not forever , it would wear off when not in use rather quickly.
That would go for everything including crafting.
As for balancing it with content, that would be just making the experiance more realistic. As I had mentioned needing food to maintain health so you can adventure. That would require someone in the group with a ranger type skill so they can track prey. As the animals would not all group together in pack awaiting slaughter allong trails. Hunting should be a true challenge. Sight, smell and sound should all come into play.
Also as previously mentioned, the weather would be a challenge in it's self. It should affect the character as it does in real life. If it is cold and you get in the water... you better have a change of clothes and a fire to get to fast or it may be game over. I fit is hot as hell and you decide to take a stroll in the desert with one canteen of water, don't be surprised when you see crows flying circles arround you.
The drive would be exploration and the difficulties of said exploration. Not to mention after your difficult journey and you find something new to explore you would need to be rested and prepared enough for whatever encounters you may face.
Now I would think that the difficulty in that would be more towoard the weather and the realisim. Rather than the removal of the need to track every single persons progression through the spectrum of levels. And then apply each individual stat and skill boost durring each roll for each lvl for each player in the battle, especially when you get into the buffs from player to player that vary from lvl to lvl.
Their will be all types of players with all different skill sets but atleast they will know that if this player has this skill it will have the same effect throughout the game and will not need to filtered by levels. Then also they can remove the need for all the extra code needed for writing all the improving clone skills for every single skill from lvl 1-cap.
Their are trade offs and difficulties, but IMO they would all be worth it to have a game that would be interesting and have actual replayability. Due to the player driven content that every player can contribute to from day 1. From battles to politics and the economy of the world. All decided by the communities decisions and actions. And all of the communities decisions could be built on by live events that the devs can come up with on a daily basis, again all based on the decisions the community has made..
Again I know it is not something on the near horrizon... but I hope somewhere out there some dev is thinking like minded and is starting to peice it together.
Shane
Yeah, the point is to create a no level system will actually make the developement process slightly more difficult. Even though there are no level, there has to have a way to upgrade the characters in place of the level system. Without level system means that it is slightly harder to manage, but at the same time remove the need for level modifier. However, the amount of restrictions needed to balance a game becomes rather complex once you take the levels out.
As for player contribution on day one. It is possible to co-exist with the level system depend on how the game is designed. Generally, it isn't as big an issue, it is based on how a game designed.
I also look forward to a revolutionary system that stray away from levels and yet maintain the playability while staying balanced. It is not something easily done, however, I do believe we are moving toward it as we speak. Since plenty of skill system that stray away from the restriction from levels now, so eventually, there might be a way to achieve no level and still remain a good MMORPG.
It is a matter of time, as always.
Indeed. Time. And it is not on our side lol.
I do see some slow progression in that direction as you said. I had hopes in RomaVictor but the game was nothing like the description IMO. AoC is not bad I am playing it off and on...more off than on...mainly cause of the combat system being kind of interesting. But I had originaly though that you played to lvl 20 solo and when you left the solo area you were cap... like guildwars in a way, and the the MMO experiance began with some sweet ass battles of epic proportions.... boy did I have that wrong. Still not a bad game just not all I wanted it to be.
______
Edit:
Imagine if AoC was like that. It would have been pretty sweet and we would have some kick ass enormous battles happening with tons of action all over the map... noone is excluded. I would have pictured instead of gaining LvLs after that you would have has some "interesting" chain quests that would have rewarded armor that would increase your shileding in different areas and the weapon rewards would have each had special finishing moves designed for them that would give a bonus to the group or something allong those lines. I think the game would be doing much better mainly cause of all the action.
____
I just really see myself getting older and older and having less and less time to dedicate to games... soon enough many of you will join me if you havent already or beyond. We are gonna need something sooner rather than later or it will be a forced game over and that kinda sux.
Ok well this might get some heat in general but..... Lunia..... The combat mechanics in that are actually quite good.... Yes its level based but at the same time it takes a bit of skill and strategy if you wish to not get your ass handed to you.... Yes its episodic in a way you go into each episode / stage like 1-1 , 1-2 , etc... But you run around and have to cast and the like and your attacks arnt click and hit you gotta press diff buttons like A for normal swings , B for knock up in the air with some or recharging mana with others or a knock out with others , or even a pentagram at times... The cool thing there was they took level based mmo and added an action game/beat em up style combat system to it and i think it works quite well really...
Toss this formula into a mainly skill based game and things could get interesting...... The downfall is im not 100% sure how well it would work in a 100% 3d view enviroment like most mmo's are now (lunia is kind of a 3d isometric view...) Frankly as far as skill based games go.... I'm looking forward to EarthRise the most.... as this frankly looks to be 1. A non fantasy setting and 2 . Not level based... (sure skill levels but those progress a bit differently then levels (i recconmend people to go play entropia universe to see real skill based combat and skill based gameplay..... You have no real skill set..... You learn dodging and athletics and stuff by actually dodging monsters in a fight.... You earn proficiency with weapon by using them you learn to do diff things and up first aid by healing people etc.....) The game isnt grand in some ways but it does have an interesting character progression system that works quite well..... (also will be visually stunning once they finish converting it over to cryengine 2 )
Comments
Compared to fighting level 80 monsters while being level 70? In most games you reach a point where you can't grind out more levels and levelling becomes pointless. And for a lot of people this is where the game really "starts". Why not simply skip ahead to this stage and not waste all of that time and effort getting to max level, or even desiging content for those lower levels?
1. Above example is really only to show that the level system is a reference used for the entire game, and not just your character. Removing level system is fine, but someone has to come up with another replacement reference system. (Unless you work as a game developer, it is always easier say than done)
2. READ WHAT I WROTE in the previous reply. Game developers NEED to make money, which means they want to keep you playing for as long as possible. This means they will not allow you to cake walk to level cap in any MMORPG. Sure, they can remove the level system, but it won't remove the grind. (It is just replaced by something else to grind)
3. Taking away the level system is fine with me, however, no level doesn't mean you get to do endgame content instantly. It will just become a series of harder requirements to complete before doing certain endgame stuff (except it is not endgame since you can do it from day one). Why? Easy, because the level system is gone, and so changes the whole flow of a MMORPG. (Developer has to maintain profit somehow)
4. The true problem is not the level system, it is only being complained about because it is an easy target. The real problem is lack of interesting gameplay to guide people through the levels and into endgame without being tedious. (Sadly, no MMORPG thus far can be considered as doing a good job at this) However, majority of Asian communities enjoy the process of grinding. The value of "Work for your achievements" means alot more in the Asian population.
5. Lastly, by removing the level system without replacing or modify the game to a great extent, the game will end up more similar to an online action game than a MMORPG. Those numbers aren't going to crunch themselves, and without a system of measurements, math is... well... HARD.
Example of a level less system: (using current MMORPG archetype)
No levels, character earn basic stat bonus with points accumulated from quests, killing monsters, etc etc. (By now the programmer is crying due to the amount of math needed to make this level free)
There are variety of skills, stronger skills is either obtained from using previous weaker skills, or by spending alot more points to obtain stronger version. (Now the game designer crys trying balance the points and the rate a skill can be obtained, calculating various limiting factors that will balance out the game without a level limit imposed, and make sure players get at least enough points to spend on essential skills)
Class or no class doesn't matter, since your basic stat and w/e stat bonus you spend your points on determines what type of character you are. (Game designer crys with the programmers trying to figure out a way for party, PvP, or boss fight to be challenging while allow for no class no level system to work) P.S If you don't know how hard this is, then lucky you.
So on and so forth... I have typed long enough. Those that doesn't get it still won't get it anyways.
Conclusion:
Remove level system is fine, but unless you come up with a working system to do it (Take in development cost/time and calcuations that need to be done), then stop. MMORPG is not for you. If you do get a working system however, then praise the lord.
I agree that it would be a challenge. I dont think it would be as difficult as all that though. Partly as I mean a game with no levels and no skills. You design your character at creation and choose all skills and talents. Would have to be easier to maintain and code if hey dont have to code for all the changes through levels and skills.
What their would be though is a buff system where you use it more ( like skills) you get more and more buffed in that area... but not forever , it would wear off when not in use rather quickly.
That would go for everything including crafting.
As for balancing it with content, that would be just making the experiance more realistic. As I had mentioned needing food to maintain health so you can adventure. That would require someone in the group with a ranger type skill so they can track prey. As the animals would not all group together in pack awaiting slaughter allong trails. Hunting should be a true challenge. Sight, smell and sound should all come into play.
Also as previously mentioned, the weather would be a challenge in it's self. It should affect the character as it does in real life. If it is cold and you get in the water... you better have a change of clothes and a fire to get to fast or it may be game over. I fit is hot as hell and you decide to take a stroll in the desert with one canteen of water, don't be surprised when you see crows flying circles arround you.
The drive would be exploration and the difficulties of said exploration. Not to mention after your difficult journey and you find something new to explore you would need to be rested and prepared enough for whatever encounters you may face.
Now I would think that the difficulty in that would be more towoard the weather and the realisim. Rather than the removal of the need to track every single persons progression through the spectrum of levels. And then apply each individual stat and skill boost durring each roll for each lvl for each player in the battle, especially when you get into the buffs from player to player that vary from lvl to lvl.
Their will be all types of players with all different skill sets but atleast they will know that if this player has this skill it will have the same effect throughout the game and will not need to filtered by levels. Then also they can remove the need for all the extra code needed for writing all the improving clone skills for every single skill from lvl 1-cap.
Their are trade offs and difficulties, but IMO they would all be worth it to have a game that would be interesting and have actual replayability. Due to the player driven content that every player can contribute to from day 1. From battles to politics and the economy of the world. All decided by the communities decisions and actions. And all of the communities decisions could be built on by live events that the devs can come up with on a daily basis, again all based on the decisions the community has made..
Again I know it is not something on the near horrizon... but I hope somewhere out there some dev is thinking like minded and is starting to peice it together.
Shane
Yeah, the point is to create a no level system will actually make the developement process slightly more difficult. Even though there are no level, there has to have a way to upgrade the characters in place of the level system. Without level system means that it is slightly harder to manage, but at the same time remove the need for level modifier. However, the amount of restrictions needed to balance a game becomes rather complex once you take the levels out.
As for player contribution on day one. It is possible to co-exist with the level system depend on how the game is designed. Generally, it isn't as big an issue, it is based on how a game designed.
I also look forward to a revolutionary system that stray away from levels and yet maintain the playability while staying balanced. It is not something easily done, however, I do believe we are moving toward it as we speak. Since plenty of skill system that stray away from the restriction from levels now, so eventually, there might be a way to achieve no level and still remain a good MMORPG.
It is a matter of time, as always.
Compared to fighting level 80 monsters while being level 70? In most games you reach a point where you can't grind out more levels and levelling becomes pointless. And for a lot of people this is where the game really "starts". Why not simply skip ahead to this stage and not waste all of that time and effort getting to max level, or even desiging content for those lower levels?
1. Above example is really only to show that the level system is a reference used for the entire game, and not just your character. Removing level system is fine, but someone has to come up with another replacement reference system. (Unless you work as a game developer, it is always easier say than done)
2. READ WHAT I WROTE in the previous reply. Game developers NEED to make money, which means they want to keep you playing for as long as possible. This means they will not allow you to cake walk to level cap in any MMORPG. Sure, they can remove the level system, but it won't remove the grind. (It is just replaced by something else to grind)
3. Taking away the level system is fine with me, however, no level doesn't mean you get to do endgame content instantly. It will just become a series of harder requirements to complete before doing certain endgame stuff (except it is not endgame since you can do it from day one). Why? Easy, because the level system is gone, and so changes the whole flow of a MMORPG. (Developer has to maintain profit somehow)
4. The true problem is not the level system, it is only being complained about because it is an easy target. The real problem is lack of interesting gameplay to guide people through the levels and into endgame without being tedious. (Sadly, no MMORPG thus far can be considered as doing a good job at this) However, majority of Asian communities enjoy the process of grinding. The value of "Work for your achievements" means alot more in the Asian population.
5. Lastly, by removing the level system without replacing or modify the game to a great extent, the game will end up more similar to an online action game than a MMORPG. Those numbers aren't going to crunch themselves, and without a system of measurements, math is... well... HARD.
Example of a level less system: (using current MMORPG archetype)
No levels, character earn basic stat bonus with points accumulated from quests, killing monsters, etc etc. (By now the programmer is crying due to the amount of math needed to make this level free)
There are variety of skills, stronger skills is either obtained from using previous weaker skills, or by spending alot more points to obtain stronger version. (Now the game designer crys trying balance the points and the rate a skill can be obtained, calculating various limiting factors that will balance out the game without a level limit imposed, and make sure players get at least enough points to spend on essential skills)
Class or no class doesn't matter, since your basic stat and w/e stat bonus you spend your points on determines what type of character you are. (Game designer crys with the programmers trying to figure out a way for party, PvP, or boss fight to be challenging while allow for no class no level system to work) P.S If you don't know how hard this is, then lucky you.
So on and so forth... I have typed long enough. Those that doesn't get it still won't get it anyways.
Conclusion:
Remove level system is fine, but unless you come up with a working system to do it (Take in development cost/time and calcuations that need to be done), then stop. MMORPG is not for you. If you do get a working system however, then praise the lord.
I agree that it would be a challenge. I dont think it would be as difficult as all that though. Partly as I mean a game with no levels and no skills. You design your character at creation and choose all skills and talents. Would have to be easier to maintain and code if hey dont have to code for all the changes through levels and skills.
What their would be though is a buff system where you use it more ( like skills) you get more and more buffed in that area... but not forever , it would wear off when not in use rather quickly.
That would go for everything including crafting.
As for balancing it with content, that would be just making the experiance more realistic. As I had mentioned needing food to maintain health so you can adventure. That would require someone in the group with a ranger type skill so they can track prey. As the animals would not all group together in pack awaiting slaughter allong trails. Hunting should be a true challenge. Sight, smell and sound should all come into play.
Also as previously mentioned, the weather would be a challenge in it's self. It should affect the character as it does in real life. If it is cold and you get in the water... you better have a change of clothes and a fire to get to fast or it may be game over. I fit is hot as hell and you decide to take a stroll in the desert with one canteen of water, don't be surprised when you see crows flying circles arround you.
The drive would be exploration and the difficulties of said exploration. Not to mention after your difficult journey and you find something new to explore you would need to be rested and prepared enough for whatever encounters you may face.
Now I would think that the difficulty in that would be more towoard the weather and the realisim. Rather than the removal of the need to track every single persons progression through the spectrum of levels. And then apply each individual stat and skill boost durring each roll for each lvl for each player in the battle, especially when you get into the buffs from player to player that vary from lvl to lvl.
Their will be all types of players with all different skill sets but atleast they will know that if this player has this skill it will have the same effect throughout the game and will not need to filtered by levels. Then also they can remove the need for all the extra code needed for writing all the improving clone skills for every single skill from lvl 1-cap.
Their are trade offs and difficulties, but IMO they would all be worth it to have a game that would be interesting and have actual replayability. Due to the player driven content that every player can contribute to from day 1. From battles to politics and the economy of the world. All decided by the communities decisions and actions. And all of the communities decisions could be built on by live events that the devs can come up with on a daily basis, again all based on the decisions the community has made..
Again I know it is not something on the near horrizon... but I hope somewhere out there some dev is thinking like minded and is starting to peice it together.
Shane
Yeah, the point is to create a no level system will actually make the developement process slightly more difficult. Even though there are no level, there has to have a way to upgrade the characters in place of the level system. Without level system means that it is slightly harder to manage, but at the same time remove the need for level modifier. However, the amount of restrictions needed to balance a game becomes rather complex once you take the levels out.
As for player contribution on day one. It is possible to co-exist with the level system depend on how the game is designed. Generally, it isn't as big an issue, it is based on how a game designed.
I also look forward to a revolutionary system that stray away from levels and yet maintain the playability while staying balanced. It is not something easily done, however, I do believe we are moving toward it as we speak. Since plenty of skill system that stray away from the restriction from levels now, so eventually, there might be a way to achieve no level and still remain a good MMORPG.
It is a matter of time, as always.
Indeed. Time. And it is not on our side lol.
I do see some slow progression in that direction as you said. I had hopes in RomaVictor but the game was nothing like the description IMO. AoC is not bad I am playing it off and on...more off than on...mainly cause of the combat system being kind of interesting. But I had originaly though that you played to lvl 20 solo and when you left the solo area you were cap... like guildwars in a way, and the the MMO experiance began with some sweet ass battles of epic proportions.... boy did I have that wrong. Still not a bad game just not all I wanted it to be.
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Edit:
Imagine if AoC was like that. It would have been pretty sweet and we would have some kick ass enormous battles happening with tons of action all over the map... noone is excluded. I would have pictured instead of gaining LvLs after that you would have has some "interesting" chain quests that would have rewarded armor that would increase your shileding in different areas and the weapon rewards would have each had special finishing moves designed for them that would give a bonus to the group or something allong those lines. I think the game would be doing much better mainly cause of all the action.
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I just really see myself getting older and older and having less and less time to dedicate to games... soon enough many of you will join me if you havent already or beyond. We are gonna need something sooner rather than later or it will be a forced game over and that kinda sux.
Anyways here is hopeing for sooner
Shane
amen
Ok well this might get some heat in general but..... Lunia..... The combat mechanics in that are actually quite good.... Yes its level based but at the same time it takes a bit of skill and strategy if you wish to not get your ass handed to you.... Yes its episodic in a way you go into each episode / stage like 1-1 , 1-2 , etc... But you run around and have to cast and the like and your attacks arnt click and hit you gotta press diff buttons like A for normal swings , B for knock up in the air with some or recharging mana with others or a knock out with others , or even a pentagram at times... The cool thing there was they took level based mmo and added an action game/beat em up style combat system to it and i think it works quite well really...
Toss this formula into a mainly skill based game and things could get interesting...... The downfall is im not 100% sure how well it would work in a 100% 3d view enviroment like most mmo's are now (lunia is kind of a 3d isometric view...) Frankly as far as skill based games go.... I'm looking forward to EarthRise the most.... as this frankly looks to be 1. A non fantasy setting and 2 . Not level based... (sure skill levels but those progress a bit differently then levels (i recconmend people to go play entropia universe to see real skill based combat and skill based gameplay..... You have no real skill set..... You learn dodging and athletics and stuff by actually dodging monsters in a fight.... You earn proficiency with weapon by using them you learn to do diff things and up first aid by healing people etc.....) The game isnt grand in some ways but it does have an interesting character progression system that works quite well..... (also will be visually stunning once they finish converting it over to cryengine 2
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