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Want to become a game designer (or somthing like it)
gizma99k
Member Posts: 239
Hello,
My name is Chris and I go to a charter school (we pick what we do and only have one class Math). I love games and I would seriously love to become a game designer or somthing to do with games! Please don't laugh at me ^_^. People tell me it is a hard job but other people have done it so why not me??? I'm posting this because I am looking for information about Game Designing and such!! Please help me because I really want to do a project on it. If you need to know anything else just ask on here... email me at jayandsilentchris@yahoo.com or IM me on AIM at Unknowenclient21.
Thanks for your time
Chris
MMO's
PLAYING
N/A
RETIRED
Planetside
uo
swg
FFXI (only played about 20 min)
AC2
Comments
IT IS ALOT ALOT ALOT harder then you might think , just makeing a game like pong is nasty lol and takes a bit of work lol.
Heres some stuff.
Also to make a game you'll need to know c++ which i hear takes about half a year to a year to learn you should get a book on it. Then theres free engines to make the games and some of the free ones are pritty good , then you also need to know howta model which takes time like animations and all that crap and the list goes on.
some info/tutorials to get started in c++:
www.gamedev.net ....valuable info on making gamez
www.cplusplus.com .... some basix in learnin to code c++
www.gametutorials.com .....c++/directx/opengl tutorialz
www.nehe.gamedev.net .....opengl tutorialz
www.nexe.gamedev.net ....directx tutorialz
free game engines for mmorpg/rpg/shooterz/etc.:
www.revolution3d.de ....nice for an engine
www.crystal.sourceforge.net ....real nice engine
www.3dstate.com ....nice for an engine
www.truevision3d.com ....pretty wicked engine
want to write your own engine?:
www.flipcode.com/tutorials/tut_el_engine.shtml ....basix of a game engine
want to build a game makin career?:
http://www2.ravensoft.com/getajob.htm
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
Learning programming takes a long long time...especially to get the point of being able to make a game. Simple games like pong and such are fairly easy to do nowadays. If you already know C++ then what you want to do is make mods and levels and small games. Unreal games or any game you can mod that is on the Unreal engine is a great way to show off your skills and get your name out.
If your more into visual design again the Unreal engine is a great way to get your name out. Creating levels for games will get you noticed quickly and you'd be amazed as to how many people get jobs in the industry by making levels for games in their spare time. As far as actual 3D modeling I believe 3DStudio Max is still the industry standard though Lightwave is personally my first choice. Most of the programs can import and export to each other so learning one over the other won't hurt too much.
Just build up your resume making small games and mods and then start applying to companies. 
Good luck!
"Feel free to hate me, but hate me for the right reasons."
"Your still ignorant if you believe the first thing you see when the blindfold is removed."
"Be smart enough to know I'm smarter than you."
_______________________________________________
- Edit: Nooblet beat me to the link so nm, but here is a clickable link to the page.
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
No not much money is needed to make a game.
As long as one is making a profit, or recouping their investment, they are successful, no matter how small, medium, big, or super huge the game is.
Strive for Power cost roughly 1,000.oo (USA) to make. 1 guy made it in his free time, while working a full time job. I think he is British. It is a bona fid MMORPG. A combination of text, ascii, and basic graphics (like the cities in the world map.). It costs him roughly 5,000.oo a year to run it. This is also the ONLY MMORPG with... permadeath! Muhahahaaaa! Not a game for the soft, faint of heart, thoughtless, or cowardly! Yes death stings the MOST in this MMORPG out of every single MMORPG ever made in history.
http://sfp.plit.dk/
TDZK cost roughly 5,000.oo (USA) to make. 2-3 women programmers did it on their own free time. It costs roughly 30,000.oo per year for them to run it.
http://www.tdzk.net/
Dark Galaxy is run by 2-5 programmers in their spare time. (I think they are German?) They were able to make it while still working at their full time jobs. It has roughly the same costs and upkeep as TDZK.
http://www.darkgalaxy.com/
Before EvE online, Earth and Beyond, Jumpgate, ... there was Edge of Chaos. Before EoC there was..... Star Wars Combine! Believe it or not SWG tried to SUE SWC! LOL! I was in the thick of it and help influence SONY and LucasArts to lay off SWC.
A group of (Canadian?) game designers in their own free time made SWC. It cost them roughly 20,000.oo to make initially. They have been updating the game many times over throughout the years. It also is a comination text and graphics, though the extra money they invested shows in how much better looking the graphics are. I estimate it costs them 50,000.oo a year to run it.
http://www.swcombine.com/
The next level is games lilke Astonia aka Astonia III. It cost roughly 30,000.oo to make. And (an educated estimate) 50,000.oo a year to run. Further proof of this is the bouts of lag the game constantly suffers (they need to upgrade their game more lol. Still playable though. And a decent game in its own light.) After Strive For Power, death stings the most in Astonia III. You have 30 mins to do a corpse run or else all is *sniff* lost. It helps to keep an extra set of keys, armor, and weapons heheh.
http://www.astonia.com/
Also Runescape. Now THIS is a game worth studying! The guy made his own company, did his own programming. Built this game from the ground up. It has recently undergone its third revision. It is the worlds oldest free MMORPG. With roughly 20,000 to 50,000 players online at peak time! And it is in all JavaScript! (Shows one does not HAVE to make games in C+++, PHP, Maya, etc...). There is nothing to download too! Beyond incredible!
It cost roughly 30,000.oo to 50,000.oo to make. And now costs roughly 100,000.oo a year to run it.
http://www.runescape.com/
The next level is games with larger world sizes. Astonia III for example uses the same/simular game engine as UO, but UO has a far, far, far, larger game world, along with far, far, far, more items, monsters, dungeons, etc.. etc... At this point it is the cost of more servers (aka hardware) that is the problem with costs. Not the salaries, software, or floorspace. The server for TDZK can fit on top of a desk. The servers for Runescape take up a room the size of an avarage bedroom. (They now have servers spread around the world.) The server for UO will need warehouse size space. And backup servers because games in the league of UO are dealing with some serious subscriber money!
Ultima Online cost roughly 2.5 million to 3 million to make. IF the game DEVs worked for free (like they do in smaller mom and pop games like TDZK, Astonia, Runescape, etc....), with no medical, no benifits, no vacation, then one can say UO would/could cost roughly 500,000.oo to make the game itself. Then factor in the number of new servers to hold such an immense gameworld size = 100,000.oo for each new server machine. Yes, just 5 servers = 1 million total!
EverQuest cost 5 million to make. The game engine technology behind it is good enough that players will not mind the graphics as long as the gameplay is there. So any new Mom and Pop game made with the EQ game engine (or simular game engine) has the potiential to sell well enough to pull in a profit. And if all the game devs worked for free, etc.... the cost would be roughly 2.5 million with the costs of the new servers. Still within reach of a mom and pop programmer if they can get a few personal loans from friends, family, and mortgage the house, car, their life...
The next level is a game with the same/simular game engine technology of AO, DAoC, EvE, etc... Costing roughly 12 million to 15 million to make.
Then the next level is AC2, SWG, HZ and the upcoming EQ2, and... and...and STO !!!
. Costing a solid 25 million to make!
Bottom line, start small. Concentrate on the buisness end aka quality over graphics. It is STILL possible for 1 person to make their own MMORPG. But be prepared to work for yourself, while holding down a regular full time job. Or work 2-3 full time jobs, save up, then spend 1-2 years not working any jobs except on your dream MMORPG game! If you can save 1,000.oo you can make your own game that other gamers will want to play. It is even possible for one person to save 30,000.oo and even 100,000.oo without needing a loan. It just takes 1 year of extreem sacrifice - but hey how badly do you want to persue your dreams of making your own MMORPG (or even RPG, etc...) they way YOU want to make it, and/or wish one were made?
The small games all have extreemly unique game features, mechanics, and gameplay none of the major HUGE games have. Like Strive for Power having perma-death (as well as other features), TDZK allowing players to land on planets, and own planets. Runescape having unique PvP in the wilderness area, and tons of static quests that are easy to start. I like how in Astonia players need to use TORCHES to light up the dark dungeons. If you wield 1 weapon you can carry a torch in the other hand. If you wield a 2-Hander weapon, you need to drop the torch on the ground while fighting.
IMHO the hardest part of making a game, is not learning the computer languages, or getting the graphic software, or the server hardware..... the hardest part is simply never giving up.
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
MMORPG games I've played:
---------------------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
DAoC (coming soon)
---------------------------
Also Runescape. Now THIS is a game worth studying! The guy made his own company, did his own programming. Built this game from the ground up. It has recently undergone its third revision. It is the worlds oldest free MMORPG. With roughly 20,000 to 50,000 players online at peak time! And it is in all JavaScript! (Shows one does not HAVE to make games in C+++, PHP, Maya, etc...). There is nothing to download too! Beyond incredible! It cost roughly 30,000.oo to 50,000.oo to make. And now costs roughly 100,000.oo a year to run it.
WTf?? lol , he must be pritty rich man 100k a year and the game is free.
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
For roughly the past 1 1/2 years Runescape has been both free and pay to play. Half of the game world is free (a large enough part to keep one busy for 6 months to 1 year), and the newest part of the gameworld requires paying to play in order to experience it. There are also new skills, quests, and features that only paying players are able to experience. (Like pickpocketing, etc..)
At peak time there are up to 50,000 players playing. Total players can be estimated at 150,000. Each server has a maximum number of total players allowed to be online at the same time. Then no more players can login. They have to wait for someone to log off. Out of them if only 20,000 pay to play he can easily afford the 100,000.oo yearly upkeep cost. Plus many players go back and forth paying to play, and playing for free. RS is also not his full time job. It is not his "bread and butter". He has a regular job he works at to pay his personal bills (his food, car payments, rent, travel expenses. etc LOL!) Though I am sure if he made a couple extra 10,000.oo from RS it would be his choice if he wants to keep the money himself.
=========================
======= SIGNATURE =========
MMORPG games I've played:
---------------------------------------
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor
Star Wars Galaxies:
http://community.webshots.com/user/capt_xplororor
More games:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01
EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01
DAoC (coming soon)
---------------------------
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33.333333333333336% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?
Killer 100%
Achiever 53%
Explorer 33%
Socializer 13%
--------------------------------------------
Wow thats some interesting stuff there
I had no idea on these numbers, thought they were much higher. Damn, considering UO only cost 2-3 mill to make, someone hit the lottery. Same with EQ. I wonder how much they've grossed up to this point w/ 100's of thousands of subscribers payinig monthy for years. Now thats a profit!
Guess i cant really blame the influx of so many mmorpg's lately.
--------------------------------------------
lol the gaming business cant be this cutthroat. I could've sworn hz's did the same thing to David Allen, i think his name was?
MMO's
PLAYING
N/A
RETIRED
Planetside
uo
swg
FFXI (only played about 20 min)
AC2
I wrote to him once to thank him for the informative article and he responded of course, but I'm not sure he has much time to respond to all inquiries upon his article but your best source for raw info will always be from people on the inside so do everything you need to succeed.
Also you must realize especially early on that the road to getting a job within the industry is long, hard, and can be sometimes monotanus, its tough road getting in and getting to the point at which you feal you are satisfied by your accomplishments upon changes you make within the game. Esspecially once you become a Dev for an mmo, the community can be a double bladed sword everyday that you interact with them praiseing you for listening then spiting upon your ideas because they don't satisfy there wants/needs and ridicule there existance and creation. Satisfying the masses is never easy and sometimes seems impossible because those who yell the loudest are usually the only ones you hear, and most of the time are not the voice of the majority.
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
Your scathing wit and daring insight into the turbulent political crags of the internet are shining beacons of truth and purity for the slight remaining masses of visionless hypocriticial sheep who bleat at the thought of your glory
You have to remember the time period that UO and EQ were built in...at that time 2.5-5 million dollars would probobly be worth almost double nowadays. ESPECIALLY with all the new graphics and hardware you'd need today.
rohbshop: yes David Allen was his name and his company was taken over by some very bad people using some nigh on illegal methods. Many of them were actually sued for that and other "hostile takovers" they performed in the gaming industry. You have to know business to understand what really happened and even those of us who study business and law aren't really sure who did what and how...however, they did remove him from his role as CEO and they did take the game rights and company rights away from him. That is why Artifact and Horizons suck so much. lol.
My advice to anyone who wants to create their own dev studio is to have a business manager that has NO monitary value in your company. Someone you pay and that actually works as a business manager. That or goto school and learn business. Even then be very careful because the gaming industry is a VERY VERY mean business. Take it from someone who has been watching and working in it. :P
"Feel free to hate me, but hate me for the right reasons."
"Your still ignorant if you believe the first thing you see when the blindfold is removed."
"Be smart enough to know I'm smarter than you."
_______________________________________________
People are actaully paying to play this? ...man that is just wrong.
EQ2 Qeynos Guild- http://www.imperium-arcanum.com
1. In-game looks better than that screenshot, more smooth.
2. The current 3d graphics suck, I liked those old ones more (if you didn't know, they made it fully 3d, no sky though)
3. Graphics aren't everything
4. The game used to be good, when the community was 500% more mature than now, no free beggers going "free itams plzplzplzplzplz", like what you encounter every 5 seconds nowadays.
So to sum it up, Runescape used to be decent, now it sucks.
_______________________________________________
Just to tell you, the gamedev.net forums are the worst place to get people to help you make a game. most of them try to discourage you to enter anything. I was lucky to find a programmer and a webmaster there. I just had 2 or 3 people who accually werent @$$holes. Alot of spammers
BUT if you really want to get into the game industry, go ahead and do it. Just need to research alot. You dont really need to learn programming to start out in the industry but a good basic knowlage of the architecture of game engines is very helpful.
There's a gaming University in Florida called Fullsail. I hear it's like 40 hours of classes a week, so it's not for the faint of heart.
http://www.fullsail.com
---------------------------------
UO - 4 years
AC - 2 years
AC2 - 6 months
DAoC - 1 month
FFXI - 7 months
Diablo2 - 9 months
Shadowbane - Beta tested
Lineage2 - Beta tested
Risk Your Life - Beta Testing
Saga of Ryzom - Beta Testing
World of Warcraft - Beta Testing
mmoRPG'er since October 1997
---------------------------------
UO - 4 years
AC - 2 years
AC2 - 6 months
DAoC - 1 month
FFXI - 7 months
Diablo2 - 9 months
Shadowbane - Beta Tested
Lineage2 - Beta Tested
Saga of Ryzom - Beta Tested
Risk Your Life - Beta Tested
World of Warcraft - Currently Playing
mmoRPG'er since October 1997
______________________
"Just to tell you, the gamedev.net forums are the worst place to get people to help you make a game. most of them try to discourage you to enter anything. I was lucky to find a programmer and a webmaster there. I just had 2 or 3 people who accually werent @$$holes. Alot of spammers"
_________________________________________
Gamedev.net is the best place on the web to guide you for free. If you go to Gamedev you will not find people sugar-coating their explanation of what it takes to get into the industry. This upsets the 20/week "oMg How du i make an MMo/rPg/Rts!!!" kiddies that pop in w/o a spec of programming/API experience.
If you have no programming experience be prepared to spend atleast three hours a day for three weeks before being able to comfortably code and understand any Tetris/Pong clone.
I have recently begun work on sprites in DirectDraw7.0 using C++ and you would vomit at the amount of code it takes to draw the simplist things.
___________________
"BUT if you really want to get into the game industry, go ahead and do it. Just need to research alot. You dont really need to learn programming to start out in the industry but a good basic knowlage of the architecture of game engines is very helpful."
______________________
This is pretty much gibberish. To get into the industry you have to be either a great artist (models, concept art, animation, composer etc) or a great programmer (AI, graphics, general logic). And as for Game Designers, the people who decide how the mechanics work ( eg. how much HP a class gets), there is no such thing as an entry level position. Designers are programmers and artists that have been in the industry for countless years and have seen numerous games go gold.
You CAN handle the truth...it's just really slippery.
I just spent 6 hours codeing c++ today pulling my hair out screaming WTF WHY DOSEn'T THAT WORK!!! THAT SHOULD WORK!!! DAMMIT THAT DOSEN'T WORK EITHER WTF IS GOING ON!!!!
Then I realized I wasn't useing a C++ compiler...It was a c# compy.
Argh of all the idiotic things I am going to have to explain to my professor tommorow about why I don't have that gene found yet.......
/nitpickmode on
I don't know where you got all those figures Xplororor, do you have any sources, or explicit experience with companies and/or the MMOG field? I'd be interested in hearing the reasoning. I don't want to come off as being an ass with this comment but I find most of your information hard to believe. Sources and references would be great. (Edit: I'm mainly referring to your cost estimates and price tags)
And you probably just slipped up but Runespace wouldn't be written in Javascript, it'd be written in Java.
/nitpickmode off
Something to add to the originator of this topic:
Start off small and at the same time read everything you can get your hands on about programming practices and design, not just language-specific topics. If any classes are offered at your school, take them. Heck, take a class at the community college in your area if possible.
----------------------
Jake
I'd hate to die twice. It's so boring
- Richard P. Feynman, 1988
With a lot of money you can hired the peoples who can make the game and determined how the game will work and say yes or no on anything in the game...
You personnal skills can help design the game, but odds is nobody will ask your opinion beside programming unless you are investing the money, in which case you determine the rules.
- "EQ2 or WoW? I wont touch it! Not even with a stick!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
[quote]Originally posted by nooblet
[b]IT IS ALOT ALOT ALOT harder then you might think , just makeing a game like pong is nasty lol and takes a bit of work lol.
Heres some stuff.
Also to make a game you'll need to know c++ which i hear takes about half a year to a year to learn you should get a book on it. Then theres free engines to make the games and some of the free ones are pritty good , then you also need to know howta model which takes time like animations and all that crap and the list goes on.
some info/tutorials to get started in c++:
www.gamedev.net ....valuable info on making gamez
www.cplusplus.com .... some basix in learnin to code c++
www.gametutorials.com .....c++/directx/opengl tutorialz
www.nehe.gamedev.net .....opengl tutorialz
www.nexe.gamedev.net ....directx tutorialz
free game engines for mmorpg/rpg/shooterz/etc.:
www.revolution3d.de ....nice for an engine
www.crystal.sourceforge.net ....real nice engine
www.3dstate.com ....nice for an engine
www.truevision3d.com ....pretty wicked engine
want to write your own engine?:
www.flipcode.com/tutorials/tut_el_engine.shtml ....basix of a game engine
want to build a game makin career?:
http://www2.ravensoft.com/getajob.htm
True I agree Totally... and you could also try going to a Gaming school like TVG in Arizonia. Were I am going, or in California or NYC
-OSC-
(Akiraosc)