Funny how you all complain about yet still play the game. Now if i was still playing the game and they did this i would have quit right on the spot. Now they should make the game F2P since they are trying to have a cash shop but to make a cash shop in a P2P game is just horrible and to be honest everyone should just cancel there account. Let the game die already it is not worth it if they are trying to do this to the players. So instead of complaining and playing, complain and cancel your subscription. Is it that hard to do seriously? They are trying to sell you game content that should be free with that monthly fee they charge you and yet you are all still playing the game and paying them.
Also, you have an equal chance of getting a loot card from a free pack as you from a bought pack.
You might want to see some hard data confirming that before you set that opinion in stone. I unpacked 8 free packs and got nothing of any substance at all, my luck stinks though and I'm only one player so it's hardly indicative of the overall situation but still, makes me somewhat dubious.
I've picked up a few booster packs to get some better cards for my deck in the TCG and recieved no loot cards from them. In the last 2 sets of free booster packs I picked up 4 loot cards (nothing flash, just a jacket, display case, fountain and Jawa vendor). So based on that, I wouldn't bother buying Booster packs if you only want loot cards.
But that is the whole point. SOE knows some people will. And that is why the put them in there in the first place. That and so the 3rd party sites would buy them in bulk. Which is why not only the regular cards, but the loot cards are tradable. So that someone would buy a crapload of the things from SOE. Period. It is a way for SOE to sell more, regardless of what it does to gameplay.
What I said, was that your chance of getting this buff card for free is "exceedingly small". In an unscientific but decent sampling, among a number of people, is that people get a loot card in about 1 in 4 booster packs. Since there are currently 20+ loot cards and another 20+ coming, it makes the chances of pulling a specific card about 1 in 80-100 packs, 160-200 after the change. At the rate of free ones, that is up to 40 months, and that is if SOE is not bending the math, which is in their own best interest to do.
Bottom Line: People that want to buy an advantage, can. SOE is happy to sell it to them. SOE is happy to sell packs to 3rd party sites too. SOE puts loot cards in the packs so people will buy them and buy more, and they will (and continue to) make the loot cards increasingly powerful to get people to want them.
And SOE does not care how they affect SWG gameplay when they do it.
Again, where is the advantage? If you can quite easily get an equivilent from in game content I don't see how you're buying an advantage, you're wasting money on alternative. There is no current evidence to say that the cards are becoming "increasingly powerful."
Well, they are not purely "cosmetic" are they? The advantage, is you can buy your way to an ability not otherwise available, except by beating some huge odds on the free side. Sure, some thing are close, but you can't pay cash and get them, and you don't have to spend any time to get the equivalent, only real money. And that, is what we call RMT.
In an already existing subscription game.
Gorax ear, next is this Skull of whatever, more are coming, I am sure....
I'd accept that it was RMT if you were guaranteed to get the loot card you wanted. Considering the numbers you posted previously, that isn't the case. So what's easier and quicker? Buying lots of card packs trying to get that loot card OR going out and doing the quick quest in an hour or two and getting the same result?
The point is, this is as much RMT as SOE can get in there alienating what is left of the playerbase. Call it an RMT lottery, call it RMT light, call it whatever you want. You must pay, to get anything more than a statically terrible chance of getting the highly desirable loot cards for "free". These loot cards have "value" because other sites are selling them for bigger sums of real money. SOE knows and counts on this. More to the point, in several US States, SOE is having big problems with this whole deal, because it is/may be breaking lottery laws.
That is why that TCG announcement recently cited that players from several states as not being eligible.
Very simply, you pay money, for a chance at something worth money. Many state laws define this as a lottery or gamling. Some US states already have a problem with this, especially in a product targeted to children/young adults.
All of that is secondary.
SOE wants to keep their $15/mo subs. They also want RMT money. They have figured that the TCG is a way for them to get both. The loot card items can and do influence gameplay (no getting away from that) and you have to pay to get a reasonable chance at them. Judgeing by other SOE games, this will continue and the items from bought packs will increase in importance.
What is "easy" to people that want things now? Have to go grind in game, or a few clicks and a dozen or 2 card packs and you get what you want or something worth just as much.
SOE doesn't care jack about what the loot cards do to the game, they just want the added income. Period.
The note about states/countries being excluded is for the tournaments/sprints and have nothing to do with Loot cards.
Back to the topic of loot cards, in your own words you said "Since there are currently 20+ loot cards and another 20+ coming, it makes the chances of pulling a specific card about 1 in 80-100 packs, 160-200 after the change." The quests for the equivilents only take at most, an hour. If someone wants to throw that much cash at a chance of a loot card that may be some minor buff (and they really are minor) then I'm sure the TCG is probably not the only thing they waste their money on.
Unless they buy them by the box. Which is what some people do. Which is what the 3rd party sites do. Which is what SOE wants them to do. Which is the whole point: to get the people that want these things to spend unreasonable sums on. If SOE didn't want people to spend $100 at a time on this stuff, the boxes wouldn't be available. But they are.
Maybe an hour for you. Maybe not for other people. Doesn't even matter.
SOE allows people to get equivalent or better game influencing items, by paying them money.
That is an RMT, and that is what SOE is doing.
Saying anything besides that, is Spin.
Yes, I'm sure the actual TCG game is just a cover for the obvious RMT SOE is trying to force into the game.../sigh.
My impression is that this is not an either/or scenario. I think SOE wants to sell a card game, AND get money from people via a lottery mechanic. The one is not a cover for the other. They are two money making strategies. One seems like simply selling a card game, the other seems like unregulated gambling, marketted to minors.
The loot card mechanic kind of reminds me of those scratch and win lottery tickets. You can buy 10 tickets at a time, to ever so slightly increase your chance of winning (and usually still lose), or you can buy one ticket a month in the hope of winning (and still probably lose). The 1 time in 50 or so that you win something small, keeps you trying. It's referred to in behaviour science as an intermittent, positive reinforcement strategy, and it happens to be very powerful.
In the case of SWG, someone could argue that you're paying for the fun of playing scratch and win, and that actually winning is just a bonus. The reinforcement strategy is still there, however. The main difference with the tickets versus loot cards, is that the tickets are properly regulated by the gambling commission. Someone could argue that SWG is more fun than scratch and win, but others would disagree.
Also, when this whole loot card deal started, I posted that SOE could change the odds in their favour at any time. It now seems from one of the posts above that they are doing this. I'm really not surprised.
Funny how you all complain about yet still play the game. Now if i was still playing the game and they did this i would have quit right on the spot. Now they should make the game F2P since they are trying to have a cash shop but to make a cash shop in a P2P game is just horrible and to be honest everyone should just cancel there account. Let the game die already it is not worth it if they are trying to do this to the players. So instead of complaining and playing, complain and cancel your subscription. Is it that hard to do seriously? They are trying to sell you game content that should be free with that monthly fee they charge you and yet you are all still playing the game and paying them.
A lot of the people that comment on the game cancelled their subs a long time ago, but periodically return to the game via free trials to see if it has improved. Just an fyi .
In the context of this thread, it seems that people aren't pleased with what they've found, that SOE seems to be hurting the game, and fleecing players via some kind of loot card lottery system.
And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked:
Amellie:
SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£
Sephiroth445:
I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
GlargtheKelfn:
yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....
Celaro:
I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them?
Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.
ArchRafael:
the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement.
now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior.
from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so.
from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.
And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked: Amellie: SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£
Sephiroth445: I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
GlargtheKelfn: yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....
Celaro: I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them? Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.
ArchRafael: the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement. now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior. from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so. from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.
Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)". Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM). It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards. S
Yeah and worse, a scratch and win something that's no bloody use to anyone other than bragging rights in a video game. It's preying on the weak willed idiots that will gladly pay. Really dumb move, in a way it's even worse than RMT's.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked: Amellie: SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£
Sephiroth445: I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
GlargtheKelfn: yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....
Celaro: I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them? Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.
ArchRafael: the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement. now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior. from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so. from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.
Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)". Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
S
The mods must have gotten their marching order from SOE about any badmouthingof the TCG, the thread I copied these from was deleted not 10 minutes after I posted bits from it here....
And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked: Amellie: SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£
Sephiroth445: I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
GlargtheKelfn: yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....
Celaro: I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them? Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.
ArchRafael: the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement. now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior. from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so. from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.
Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)". Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
S
The mods must have gotten their marching order from SOE about any badmouthingof the TCG, the thread I copied these from was deleted not 10 minutes after I posted bits from it here....
Yep, they removed it. I think someone has started another one though. SOE doesn't want anyone interfering with their illegal internet lottery errrr The Scamming Card game (TM).
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
What I find funny is how fast SOE can pump out expansions for something that is an addition revenue source to a subscription fee and yet how long it takes to make game content, let alone an actual game expansion.
What I find funny is how fast SOE can pump out expansions for something that is an addition revenue source to a subscription fee and yet how long it takes to make game content, let alone an actual game expansion.
Why doesn't that seem to concern anyone?
I agree. The Trading Scam lottery is a disgusting slap in the face to all the people who still play.
A few more non-disgruntled vet opinions from the official boards on the TCG:
Niibersen:
Yea, I'm pretty sick of them adding everything is some stupid grind collection or the freaking TCG. So many nice items in the TCG that I'm not paying more money for that should be added into the game for free. I know, I know, "just buy em with credits" but people are charing huge sums of credits for em, which is insane.
Ceras:
Because SOE's management only want to make fast money and dont care what players want ?!?
They need six month to bring hoth to live , remember its only a pve encounter which becomes boring after doing it 20 times , but allow for money to give their right to bring in game starwars items that are not obtainable trouhg normal gameplay a outstanding firm ? Joke !
BigDgrant:
As a veteran player I would like the opportunity to obtain these vehicles but have absolutely no interest in the TCG or spending my own money to get these rewards.
Seems totally unfair for someone who's been playing for years to be asked to fork out more money.To me its just a cynical money making ploy to fleece players.I hate greed and thats what this is.
ArchRaefael:
undock TCG from SWG entirely. make it entirely seperate with no ingame items, no ingame launching, no cross-marketing, no loot-cards in-game, none of that.
so they wont do that of course because TCG is nothing but a marketing gimmick to hook fanbois for their lunch money.
Stuff in that thread likely won't last long either, but a lot of the same.
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
What I find funny is how fast SOE can pump out expansions for something that is an addition revenue source to a subscription fee and yet how long it takes to make game content, let alone an actual game expansion.
Why doesn't that seem to concern anyone?
Well it is only a card game, there's not as many complexities as a traditional MMO liek SWG....
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things. The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own". Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off". You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc. That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. S
I'd be interested to see how the legal side goes, one huge concern I have with the TCG, aside from the potential for exploitation by SOE is that fact that it's purely in digital medium, the controls are completely in SOE's hands. I mean, it's akin to wandering into a casino, strolling up to the blackjack table, putting a blindfold on before playing and accepting the dealers word throughout, probably until your wallet is empty lol
It's funny, I doubt anyone would really be having these thoughts if it wasn't SOE, but someone else. I guess that's what happens when you screw your customers over though, some shit always sticks.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things. The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own". Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off". You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc. That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. S
I'd be interested to see how the legal side goes, one huge concern I have with the TCG, aside from the potential for exploitation by SOE is that fact that it's purely in digital medium, the controls are completely in SOE's hands. I mean, it's akin to wandering into a casino, strolling up to the blackjack table, putting a blindfold on before playing and accepting the dealers word throughout, probably until your wallet is empty lol
It's funny, I doubt anyone would really be having these thoughts if it wasn't SOE, but someone else. I guess that's what happens when you screw your customers over though, some shit always sticks.
I disliked the NGE but as I have stated before, I feel the game has vastly improved since then and I genuinely enjoy it, this TCG crap is a whole other kettle of fish and needs to be dealt with. We pay for the game and we pay the subscription, that is enough for a virtual world with virtual items.
While the TCG loot is not better than anything in game YET, it is only a matter of time before it will be. If I pay for an expansion and I get a free gift, then that is fine. I know what I am paying for and I know what I am getting.
As much as I still dislike the idea, offering these items at a set price would be the ethical way to do this, not a scratch and win lottery with horrible odds of winning something that only exists in the blue nowhere.
The TCG is unethical and when SWG still has so many problems (most of which I can live with), it is a real insult to implement something that we have to PAY for, with a slim chance of winning an item to use in the still broken original game.
What I find funny is how fast SOE can pump out expansions for something that is an addition revenue source to a subscription fee and yet how long it takes to make game content, let alone an actual game expansion.
Why doesn't that seem to concern anyone?
Well it is only a card game, there's not as many complexities as a traditional MMO liek SWG....
This is the sort of indifference that helped speed SWG to the state it is in today.
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
S
Ugh, I've been through this whole discussion in another thread when the TCG first came out. No, it's not gambling. It's like buying a pack of cereal and getting a free random toy. The booster packs are designed to induce new cards into your TCG deck.
Locations aren't excluded from getting the loot cards, they're excluded from participating in the TCG tournaments and sprints because they give rewards. Due to international laws, it's complex for companies to give rewards internationally. No one is restricted from getting the free booster packs or buying them.
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
S
Ugh, I've been through this whole discussion in another thread when the TCG first came out. No, it's not gambling. It's like buying a pack of cereal and getting a free random toy. The booster packs are designed to induce new cards into your TCG deck.
Locations aren't excluded from getting the loot cards, they're excluded from participating in the TCG tournaments and sprints because they give rewards. Due to international laws, it's complex for companies to give rewards internationally. No one is restricted from getting the free booster packs or buying them.
Yes it is Im afraid. Its no different than a scratch and win card and that is gambling. Its fine to defend SWG, but you simply aren't objective. Denying the fact that the TCG is gambling is the same as denying that water is wet. It is gambling by definition and in practice.
International Law? Certain states are not allowed to participate. Thats got sod all to do with international law. Further, when certain state lottery commissions get wind of what SOE is up to it will be Soyonara TCG and good riddance in my book.
S
PS : And again, you miss the point, allow me to illustrate.
You buy a box of cereal and on the box it says "Free random toy inside". You are getting a toy, no matter what.
Crappy Trading Scam (TCG) You buy a booster pack and you are guaranteed NOTHING except virtual cards. That is gambling by definition. If you buy a scratch and win Lotto card you are essentially buying a piece of cardboard with a random chance of winning. In the TCG you buy virtual cardboard with a random chance of winning.
Comments
You could just have asked us EQ2 or EQ players, we could have told you that a long while ago.
You can probably find those boosters rarely in the game however, at least you can it in EQ2.
Funny how you all complain about yet still play the game. Now if i was still playing the game and they did this i would have quit right on the spot. Now they should make the game F2P since they are trying to have a cash shop but to make a cash shop in a P2P game is just horrible and to be honest everyone should just cancel there account. Let the game die already it is not worth it if they are trying to do this to the players. So instead of complaining and playing, complain and cancel your subscription. Is it that hard to do seriously? They are trying to sell you game content that should be free with that monthly fee they charge you and yet you are all still playing the game and paying them.
You might want to see some hard data confirming that before you set that opinion in stone. I unpacked 8 free packs and got nothing of any substance at all, my luck stinks though and I'm only one player so it's hardly indicative of the overall situation but still, makes me somewhat dubious.
I've picked up a few booster packs to get some better cards for my deck in the TCG and recieved no loot cards from them. In the last 2 sets of free booster packs I picked up 4 loot cards (nothing flash, just a jacket, display case, fountain and Jawa vendor). So based on that, I wouldn't bother buying Booster packs if you only want loot cards.
But that is the whole point. SOE knows some people will. And that is why the put them in there in the first place. That and so the 3rd party sites would buy them in bulk. Which is why not only the regular cards, but the loot cards are tradable. So that someone would buy a crapload of the things from SOE. Period. It is a way for SOE to sell more, regardless of what it does to gameplay.
What I said, was that your chance of getting this buff card for free is "exceedingly small". In an unscientific but decent sampling, among a number of people, is that people get a loot card in about 1 in 4 booster packs. Since there are currently 20+ loot cards and another 20+ coming, it makes the chances of pulling a specific card about 1 in 80-100 packs, 160-200 after the change. At the rate of free ones, that is up to 40 months, and that is if SOE is not bending the math, which is in their own best interest to do.
Bottom Line: People that want to buy an advantage, can. SOE is happy to sell it to them. SOE is happy to sell packs to 3rd party sites too. SOE puts loot cards in the packs so people will buy them and buy more, and they will (and continue to) make the loot cards increasingly powerful to get people to want them.
And SOE does not care how they affect SWG gameplay when they do it.
Again, where is the advantage? If you can quite easily get an equivilent from in game content I don't see how you're buying an advantage, you're wasting money on alternative. There is no current evidence to say that the cards are becoming "increasingly powerful."
Well, they are not purely "cosmetic" are they? The advantage, is you can buy your way to an ability not otherwise available, except by beating some huge odds on the free side. Sure, some thing are close, but you can't pay cash and get them, and you don't have to spend any time to get the equivalent, only real money. And that, is what we call RMT.
In an already existing subscription game.
Gorax ear, next is this Skull of whatever, more are coming, I am sure....
I'd accept that it was RMT if you were guaranteed to get the loot card you wanted. Considering the numbers you posted previously, that isn't the case. So what's easier and quicker? Buying lots of card packs trying to get that loot card OR going out and doing the quick quest in an hour or two and getting the same result?
The point is, this is as much RMT as SOE can get in there alienating what is left of the playerbase. Call it an RMT lottery, call it RMT light, call it whatever you want. You must pay, to get anything more than a statically terrible chance of getting the highly desirable loot cards for "free". These loot cards have "value" because other sites are selling them for bigger sums of real money. SOE knows and counts on this. More to the point, in several US States, SOE is having big problems with this whole deal, because it is/may be breaking lottery laws.
That is why that TCG announcement recently cited that players from several states as not being eligible.
Very simply, you pay money, for a chance at something worth money. Many state laws define this as a lottery or gamling. Some US states already have a problem with this, especially in a product targeted to children/young adults.
All of that is secondary.
SOE wants to keep their $15/mo subs. They also want RMT money. They have figured that the TCG is a way for them to get both. The loot card items can and do influence gameplay (no getting away from that) and you have to pay to get a reasonable chance at them. Judgeing by other SOE games, this will continue and the items from bought packs will increase in importance.
What is "easy" to people that want things now? Have to go grind in game, or a few clicks and a dozen or 2 card packs and you get what you want or something worth just as much.
SOE doesn't care jack about what the loot cards do to the game, they just want the added income. Period.
The note about states/countries being excluded is for the tournaments/sprints and have nothing to do with Loot cards.
Back to the topic of loot cards, in your own words you said "Since there are currently 20+ loot cards and another 20+ coming, it makes the chances of pulling a specific card about 1 in 80-100 packs, 160-200 after the change." The quests for the equivilents only take at most, an hour. If someone wants to throw that much cash at a chance of a loot card that may be some minor buff (and they really are minor) then I'm sure the TCG is probably not the only thing they waste their money on.
Unless they buy them by the box. Which is what some people do. Which is what the 3rd party sites do. Which is what SOE wants them to do. Which is the whole point: to get the people that want these things to spend unreasonable sums on. If SOE didn't want people to spend $100 at a time on this stuff, the boxes wouldn't be available. But they are.
Maybe an hour for you. Maybe not for other people. Doesn't even matter.
SOE allows people to get equivalent or better game influencing items, by paying them money.
That is an RMT, and that is what SOE is doing.
Saying anything besides that, is Spin.
Yes, I'm sure the actual TCG game is just a cover for the obvious RMT SOE is trying to force into the game.../sigh.
My impression is that this is not an either/or scenario. I think SOE wants to sell a card game, AND get money from people via a lottery mechanic. The one is not a cover for the other. They are two money making strategies. One seems like simply selling a card game, the other seems like unregulated gambling, marketted to minors.
The loot card mechanic kind of reminds me of those scratch and win lottery tickets. You can buy 10 tickets at a time, to ever so slightly increase your chance of winning (and usually still lose), or you can buy one ticket a month in the hope of winning (and still probably lose). The 1 time in 50 or so that you win something small, keeps you trying. It's referred to in behaviour science as an intermittent, positive reinforcement strategy, and it happens to be very powerful.
In the case of SWG, someone could argue that you're paying for the fun of playing scratch and win, and that actually winning is just a bonus. The reinforcement strategy is still there, however. The main difference with the tickets versus loot cards, is that the tickets are properly regulated by the gambling commission. Someone could argue that SWG is more fun than scratch and win, but others would disagree.
Also, when this whole loot card deal started, I posted that SOE could change the odds in their favour at any time. It now seems from one of the posts above that they are doing this. I'm really not surprised.
A lot of the people that comment on the game cancelled their subs a long time ago, but periodically return to the game via free trials to see if it has improved. Just an fyi
.
In the context of this thread, it seems that people aren't pleased with what they've found, that SOE seems to be hurting the game, and fleecing players via some kind of loot card lottery system.
And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked:
Amellie:
SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£
Sephiroth445:
I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
GlargtheKelfn:
yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....
Celaro:
I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them?
Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.
ArchRafael:
the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement.
now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior.
from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so.
from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.
Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)".
Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
S
Yeah and worse, a scratch and win something that's no bloody use to anyone other than bragging rights in a video game. It's preying on the weak willed idiots that will gladly pay. Really dumb move, in a way it's even worse than RMT's.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
S
The mods must have gotten their marching order from SOE about any badmouthingof the TCG, the thread I copied these from was deleted not 10 minutes after I posted bits from it here....
The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).
It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.
S
The mods must have gotten their marching order from SOE about any badmouthingof the TCG, the thread I copied these from was deleted not 10 minutes after I posted bits from it here....
Yep, they removed it. I think someone has started another one though. SOE doesn't want anyone interfering with their illegal internet lottery errrr The Scamming Card game (TM).
For an MMO with monthly fees this is an outrageous way of ripping customers.
I would understand paying services and items if you are certain to get it.
This is pure lottery and as so forbidden in many countries I know of.
Guess it's the time to teach Sony you don't mess with people like that.
I hope people will start reporting this in their own countries and as such their IP would be banned, even more face trials.
It's really sad to see how low they are when you know it could be such a successful story. Blame the managers with the big salaries.
I guess many original SWG devs are ashamed of what it became and it's not their fault, far from it.
I am writing a letter to my local lottery commission as we speak.
The TCG needs to end, NOW.
S
Once again, this forum creates a Storm in a Teacup...
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
What I find funny is how fast SOE can pump out expansions for something that is an addition revenue source to a subscription fee and yet how long it takes to make game content, let alone an actual game expansion.
Why doesn't that seem to concern anyone?
I agree. The Trading Scam lottery is a disgusting slap in the face to all the people who still play.
S
A few more non-disgruntled vet opinions from the official boards on the TCG:
Niibersen:
Yea, I'm pretty sick of them adding everything is some stupid grind collection or the freaking TCG. So many nice items in the TCG that I'm not paying more money for that should be added into the game for free. I know, I know, "just buy em with credits" but people are charing huge sums of credits for em, which is insane.
Ceras:
Because SOE's management only want to make fast money and dont care what players want ?!?
They need six month to bring hoth to live , remember its only a pve encounter which becomes boring after doing it 20 times , but allow for money to give their right to bring in game starwars items that are not obtainable trouhg normal gameplay a outstanding firm ? Joke !
BigDgrant:
As a veteran player I would like the opportunity to obtain these vehicles but have absolutely no interest in the TCG or spending my own money to get these rewards.
Seems totally unfair for someone who's been playing for years to be asked to fork out more money.To me its just a cynical money making ploy to fleece players.I hate greed and thats what this is.
ArchRaefael:
undock TCG from SWG entirely. make it entirely seperate with no ingame items, no ingame launching, no cross-marketing, no loot-cards in-game, none of that.
so they wont do that of course because TCG is nothing but a marketing gimmick to hook fanbois for their lunch money.
Stuff in that thread likely won't last long either, but a lot of the same.
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Well it is only a card game, there's not as many complexities as a traditional MMO liek SWG....
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
S
I'd be interested to see how the legal side goes, one huge concern I have with the TCG, aside from the potential for exploitation by SOE is that fact that it's purely in digital medium, the controls are completely in SOE's hands. I mean, it's akin to wandering into a casino, strolling up to the blackjack table, putting a blindfold on before playing and accepting the dealers word throughout, probably until your wallet is empty lol
It's funny, I doubt anyone would really be having these thoughts if it wasn't SOE, but someone else. I guess that's what happens when you screw your customers over though, some shit always sticks.
...The spread of secondary and latterly of tertiary education has created a large population of people, often with well developed literary and scholarly tastes, who have been educated far beyond their capacity to undertake analytical thought.
I'd be interested to see how the legal side goes, one huge concern I have with the TCG, aside from the potential for exploitation by SOE is that fact that it's purely in digital medium, the controls are completely in SOE's hands. I mean, it's akin to wandering into a casino, strolling up to the blackjack table, putting a blindfold on before playing and accepting the dealers word throughout, probably until your wallet is empty lol
It's funny, I doubt anyone would really be having these thoughts if it wasn't SOE, but someone else. I guess that's what happens when you screw your customers over though, some shit always sticks.
I disliked the NGE but as I have stated before, I feel the game has vastly improved since then and I genuinely enjoy it, this TCG crap is a whole other kettle of fish and needs to be dealt with. We pay for the game and we pay the subscription, that is enough for a virtual world with virtual items.
While the TCG loot is not better than anything in game YET, it is only a matter of time before it will be. If I pay for an expansion and I get a free gift, then that is fine. I know what I am paying for and I know what I am getting.
As much as I still dislike the idea, offering these items at a set price would be the ethical way to do this, not a scratch and win lottery with horrible odds of winning something that only exists in the blue nowhere.
The TCG is unethical and when SWG still has so many problems (most of which I can live with), it is a real insult to implement something that we have to PAY for, with a slim chance of winning an item to use in the still broken original game.
S
Obviously SOE is gonna use SWG to test the waters to see how far they can go in their new games. Isn't that how it works?
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Well it is only a card game, there's not as many complexities as a traditional MMO liek SWG....
This is the sort of indifference that helped speed SWG to the state it is in today.
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
S
How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
S
Ugh, I've been through this whole discussion in another thread when the TCG first came out. No, it's not gambling. It's like buying a pack of cereal and getting a free random toy. The booster packs are designed to induce new cards into your TCG deck.
Locations aren't excluded from getting the loot cards, they're excluded from participating in the TCG tournaments and sprints because they give rewards. Due to international laws, it's complex for companies to give rewards internationally. No one is restricted from getting the free booster packs or buying them.
I dont think so. Im usually fairly pro SWG but the TCG is a scam and its also illegal, so it needs to go.
It is optional as you have rightly pointed out but as Burntvet pointed out, there is yet another buff item being introduced and a Ship, They do one space update in 5 years and now they want us to pay for the CHANCE at a ship?
Sorry, there is no excusing this kind of blatant"scammery". I will do whatever I can to get the TCG shutdown.
We pay a subscription fee for continued content etc, the TCG should be seperate from SWG. The only problem as far as SOE is concerned is that the TCG wouldnt make above 10p if it wasnt for the "scratch and win" aspect of it.
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How is it any different to every other purchase item reward they and nearly every other MMO has done? The Mustafarian bunker, the BARC, the Lava flea, Varactyl, ITV's, etc. There is no scam, it's pretty clear that booster packs have a chance of having a loot card. There's nothing illegal about it.
The "there's a buff item!" point doesn't really make a good argument. As is seen with the buff item for the current loot line up, it's pretty insignificant and is barely used by anyone. I could be wrong, but this latest buff is probably no different. You're also a little off on your space updates - JTL came out November 2004 (4 years ago), RoTW included a space content update (which you had to pay for and came out in May 2005) and then the latest space update of Jan this year.
Yes, you pay a subscription for content in SWG and that's what you have been getting. Chapter 11 just came out with your subscription money and there's GU6 not too far away and Chapter 12 in the new year. The TCG and SWG ARE seperate, the Austin team had nothing to do with this TCG expansion, other then the art assets they created for it back in August when the TCG was released.
Ok, well as for the Bunker etc, these are guaranteed. It is not a game of chance, if you buy said expansion, you WILL receive these things.
The TCG is a lottery, and as SOE are quickly finiding out, gambling is regulated and you are not allowed to simply "start your own".
Yes, my timeline was off concerning space BUT again you know what you are getting when you pay for an expansion so it is your argument that is "a little off".
You dont seem to understand that the TCG does not guarantee anything except Virtual cards with the CHANCE of a loot card. Games of chance are gambling and gambling, as I stated before, is regulated by State, Province, Government etc.
That is actually why many places are being excluded and I intend to see to it that the list does not stop there. Gambling with real money has no place in SWG, if you cant see why its inclusion is very different from buying an expansion, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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Ugh, I've been through this whole discussion in another thread when the TCG first came out. No, it's not gambling. It's like buying a pack of cereal and getting a free random toy. The booster packs are designed to induce new cards into your TCG deck.
Locations aren't excluded from getting the loot cards, they're excluded from participating in the TCG tournaments and sprints because they give rewards. Due to international laws, it's complex for companies to give rewards internationally. No one is restricted from getting the free booster packs or buying them.
Yes it is Im afraid. Its no different than a scratch and win card and that is gambling. Its fine to defend SWG, but you simply aren't objective. Denying the fact that the TCG is gambling is the same as denying that water is wet. It is gambling by definition and in practice.
International Law? Certain states are not allowed to participate. Thats got sod all to do with international law. Further, when certain state lottery commissions get wind of what SOE is up to it will be Soyonara TCG and good riddance in my book.
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PS : And again, you miss the point, allow me to illustrate.
You buy a box of cereal and on the box it says "Free random toy inside". You are getting a toy, no matter what.
Crappy Trading Scam (TCG) You buy a booster pack and you are guaranteed NOTHING except virtual cards. That is gambling by definition. If you buy a scratch and win Lotto card you are essentially buying a piece of cardboard with a random chance of winning. In the TCG you buy virtual cardboard with a random chance of winning.