Its a trading card game. Trading card. You may be paying a monthly service to SWG...but you opt to play the TCG. And just like regular trading cards..people dump shitloads of money into many packs or boxes of packs...in hopes to get that one rookie card or hologram that they want. Its not gambling...other wise the various lottery commissions would be all over Fleer or Topps or whoever makes TCs these days. Cause we all know what price some of those rare card-types can fetch. Not to mention the same for other TCG like Magic the gathering.
Its also funny how a "dead" game has so much life on the forums.
Its a trading card game. Trading card. You may be paying a monthly service to SWG...but you opt to play the TCG. And just like regular trading cards..people dump shitloads of money into many packs or boxes of packs...in hopes to get that one rookie card or hologram that they want. Its not gambling...other wise the various lottery commissions would be all over Fleer or Topps or whoever makes TCs these days. Cause we all know what price some of those rare card-types can fetch. Not to mention the same for other TCG like Magic the gathering.
Its also funny how a "dead" game has so much life on the forums.
Comparing the loot card lottery to other trading card game misses some important differences. The most obvious is that the loot cards aren't actually part of the trading card game. They are dangled perks for the MMO. SOE dangles them, and people who play the MMO are enticed to gamble for them. There's nothing like this in the trading card games you mention.
Also, people are already paying a subscription fee for the MMO, but now they need to gamble for loot cards to get the fastest vehicle, or to obtain additional buffs to combat statistics. So, even though they're paying a subscription fee, they become less competitive and cannot obtain collectibles without playing the lottery.
Also, these are virtual, not actual, cards. So you pay money to gamble for them, and even if you win, you actually own--nothing. Furthermore the rarity of desirable "cards" can be manipulated by SOE at any time, at their sole discretion.
These issues don't apply to the actual trading card games on the market today. SOE is charting new territory here in a number of ways.
Re. life on the forums, SOE seems to have a way of managing this game that goes from one controversy to the next. From a broken and dissappointing release, to a number of unwanted revamps, to allegations of bait and switch and massive refunds, to a loot card lottery system, SOE has taken an internationally known IP and dragged it through the mud for years. This seems to hold people's attention. Also, many former players have had the progress and game they enjoyed removed or altered beyond recognition. All that remains is to discuss the latest scandal and ponder what might have been.
Its a trading card game. Trading card. You may be paying a monthly service to SWG...but you opt to play the TCG. And just like regular trading cards..people dump shitloads of money into many packs or boxes of packs...in hopes to get that one rookie card or hologram that they want. Its not gambling...other wise the various lottery commissions would be all over Fleer or Topps or whoever makes TCs these days. Cause we all know what price some of those rare card-types can fetch. Not to mention the same for other TCG like Magic the gathering.
Its also funny how a "dead" game has so much life on the forums.
Comparing the loot card lottery to other trading card game misses some important differences. The most obvious is that the loot cards aren't actually part of the trading card game. They are dangled perks for the MMO. SOE dangles them, and people who play the MMO are enticed to gamble for them. There's nothing like this in the trading card games you mention.
Also, people are already paying a subscription fee for the MMO, but now they need to gamble for loot cards to get the fastest vehicle, or to obtain additional buffs to combat statistics. So, even though they're paying a subscription fee, they become less competitive and cannot obtain collectibles without playing the lottery.
Also, these are virtual, not actual, cards. So you pay money to gamble for them, and even if you win, you actually own--nothing. Furthermore the rarity of desirable "cards" can be manipulated by SOE at any time, at their sole discretion.
These issues don't apply to the actual trading card games on the market today. SOE is charting new territory here in a number of ways.
Re. life on the forums, SOE seems to have a way of managing this game that goes from one controversy to the next. From a broken and dissappointing release, to a number of unwanted revamps, to allegations of bait and switch and massive refunds, to a loot card lottery system, SOE has taken an internationally known IP and dragged it through the mud for years. This seems to hold people's attention. Also, many former players have had the progress and game they enjoyed removed or altered beyond recognition. All that remains is to discuss the latest scandal and ponder what might have been.
nah, there is lots of discussion on the forums outside of the usual SOE bashing. No, its not cool to like SWG and people pretend to not like it while playing every day. Its funny, tbh
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Originally posted by Sharkypal Originally posted by Aethios Originally posted by Sharkypal Originally posted by xaldraxius Things are different now than they have been before. The game has suffered a lot since 2005 and admittedly has kept going despite many people figuring it would get closed, but now the franchise has been sold and a new Star Wars MMO is on the horizon. They will have zero chance of gaining new players once there is another Star Wars game out there. They are desperate at this point.
Save your "predictions" about SWG's imminent demise for the Veteran's refuge. This thread is about the TCG. S
Looks to me like this thread is about the game's dying throes, and SOE's attempted manipulation of the TCG to leech as much money out of it as possible. Predictions of the game's future while discussing these things seems perfectly normal to me.
No its not, its about the TCG. If you'd like to make predictions about SWG's demise, there are have been threads pertaining to that in the Veteran's refuge since 2005. Some people dont realise that there are games with lower populations that are still around. There is no reason to believe that SWG wont be around for a least another 3 or 4 years. Some people think SW:TOR will kill SWG, I dont believe that either. It will certainly entice a good part of the SWG player base to try it but since they are so different in terms of type of game, I really dont see it "killing" SWG. The NGE didnt kill SWG outright (although it was a damn good try), so I dont think anything else will. S
I am, and was talking about the financial reasoning behind the TCG, which is completely on topic.
I'm not going to debate the merits or detrimental quality of this loot system via card game. People have already debated that enough. Nor am I going to debate whether it is legal gambling, illegal gambling, or not gambling. I think we all know what it is.
What I am going to talk about is how clear it all seems now: why crafting had to die, why decay had to die, why loot and non-trade had to be mandated. It isn't the reasons wew were given by Rubenfield, Smed, and Torres. It was because you can't do the sort of crazy promotional stunts SOE did with the old Pre-CU game.
But answer me this, fanbois. How do vet rewards add to the game? How do pre-order items and free items in expansions add to the game? How do these loot cards add to the game?
They don't add anything to the game, but not because they aren't good items that are desirable. They don't add anything to the game because you don't even have to play to get them, you only have to pay.
Now of course, that's the intent. They offer these neat things like the AT walker and the holograms to get people to buy the products and services they want the players to buy. It works. Nobody is denying that, but how much better would the game be if these items were crafted or quested for, rather than simply given for a pricetag? In short, these items are expensive, but the very expense of these things belies a "cheap" game: one that has to rely on promotional gimmicks to survive rather than a good experience.
Now I know full well that SOE is a business and making money is important. But nobody ever became important in business without having a vision about something more than money. What does SOE want MMOs to look like in the next ten years? Is it someplace you'd want to be with rich gameplay, immersiveness, and depth? Or is it going to be an endless array of promotional stunts and gimmicks to get more money out of you, like the casinos do, but without all the cheap drinks, girlys, and ambiance of a real casino?
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
From what I've read in this thread it seems obvious to me that SWG is now an open alpha test for the Agency ...... and you're paying a subscription for it too! The people left playing SWG have taken so much BS in the past, like a wife that's been abused over several years by a violent husband, what difference does another beating make?
There are so few left playing SWG that Smedley is just using it as a testing ground for future "enterprises" now. He's crazy about micro transactions but realizes that western audiences dislike this method of payment as it is so easily abused by both unscrupolous players and companies alike. So perhaps this is his method of weening the western playerbase onto the micro transaction system he's been trying so hard to sell us for years?
Obraik you defend your beligerent partner eloquently however, you're paying money not for an item, but for the hope of getting an item. The more times you purchase that hope, the higher your chances increase in getting it. You don't have to pay, you can get these packs for free ingame, but isn't that just a method of getting your hopes up so that Smedley can draw you into his scam?
I understand some refuse to buy these packs, but isn't it unfair to put this in a game with children, and disguise it as a fun side game to play for free inorder to lure them to the cash shop? Also let's be honest even SOE believes the mental age of the NGE target audience to be lower than your average MMO gamer "there was too much reading", "They want more kill/loot/repeat".
Also all the time you're paying SOE to run a tiny Dev team of amatuers to patch in old content as new and they have the front to ask you to pay more money in the hope of getting it!
SWG is a dying animal and Smed is now testing it in his lab of evil fleecing scams in preperation for the Agency. Any crazy idea that normally would get an executive or lead developer fired for suggesting is now tested out on the remenants of SWG. There is one question I'd like to ask Obraik and those that defend this method of trying to squeeze blood from a stone, is this TGC "Starwarsy"? I mean let's be serious, Chewbacca wastes a stormtrooper and Han shouts "Chewie check to see if he has any playing cards in his belt!". Then back on the Falcon they can't jump to Hyperspace and Liea shouts "Han give me the pack of cards!", opens them up and Han screams "Yeeee hhhhaaaa we just got a new hyperdrive, this could really save our necks!". Or how about when they were checking out Anekin "What are you doing?", "I'm checking your blood for Micro transactions", "Micro transactions? What are they?", "They are what give Jedi the power of the force, buffs and sexy pod racers!".
The previous statment is only my own opinion and is in now way to be taken as fact,
Agricola.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
From what I've read in this thread it seems obvious to me that SWG is now an open alpha test for the Agency ...... and you're paying a subscription for it too! The people left playing SWG have taken so much BS in the past, like a wife that's been abused over several years by a violent husband, what difference does another beating make? There are so few left playing SWG that Smedley is just using it as a testing ground for future "enterprises" now. He's crazy about micro transactions but realizes that western audiences dislike this method of payment as it is so easily abused by both unscrupolous players and companies alike. So perhaps this is his method of weening the western playerbase onto the micro transaction system he's been trying so hard to sell us for years? Obraik you defend your beligerent partner eloquently however, you're paying money not for an item, but for the hope of getting an item. The more times you purchase that hope, the higher your chances increase in getting it. You don't have to pay, you can get these packs for free ingame, but isn't that just a method of getting your hopes up so that Smedley can draw you into his scam? I understand some refuse to buy these packs, but isn't it unfair to put this in a game with children, and disguise it as a fun side game to play for free inorder to lure them to the cash shop? Also let's be honest even SOE believes the mental age of the NGE target audience to be lower than your average MMO gamer "there was too much reading", "They want more kill/loot/repeat". Also all the time you're paying SOE to run a tiny Dev team of amatuers to patch in old content as new and they have the front to ask you to pay more money in the hope of getting it! SWG is a dying animal and Smed is now testing it in his lab of evil fleecing scams in preperation for the Agency. Any crazy idea that normally would get an executive or lead developer fired for suggesting is now tested out on the remenants of SWG. There is one question I'd like to ask Obraik and those that defend this method of trying to squeeze blood from a stone, is this TGC "Starwarsy"? I mean let's be serious, Chewbacca wastes a stormtrooper and Han shouts "Chewie check to see if he has any playing cards in his belt!". Then back on the Falcon they can't jump to Hyperspace and Liea shouts "Han give me the pack of cards!", opens them up and Han screams "Yeeee hhhhaaaa we just got a new hyperdrive, this could really save our necks!". Or how about when they were checking out Anekin "What are you doing?", "I'm checking your blood for Micro transactions", "Micro transactions? What are they?", "They are what give Jedi the power of the force, buffs and sexy pod racers!". The previous statment is only my own opinion and is in now way to be taken as fact, Agricola.
TCG's are very commonplace and have been for years, christ I remember football TCG's from 30 years ago and i know there were predecessors of this around in the 1950's. It's nothing new, companies have been doing it for decades in one form or another. Sure they are aimed at kids, they have always been aimed at kids, but so are gobstoppers and ice-cream, whats the problem?
Get off your high-horse and open your eyes to the world around you, it's been that way for years and it will always be that way, QQing at SoE for doing what others already do is ludicrous. There is obviously a market for it, if there wasn't then no-one would pay. Basic supply and demand economics for gods sake.
You don't like it or disagree with the ethics, then protest by not buying into it. Thats all you can do.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
From what I've read in this thread it seems obvious to me that SWG is now an open alpha test for the Agency ...... and you're paying a subscription for it too! The people left playing SWG have taken so much BS in the past, like a wife that's been abused over several years by a violent husband, what difference does another beating make? There are so few left playing SWG that Smedley is just using it as a testing ground for future "enterprises" now. He's crazy about micro transactions but realizes that western audiences dislike this method of payment as it is so easily abused by both unscrupolous players and companies alike. So perhaps this is his method of weening the western playerbase onto the micro transaction system he's been trying so hard to sell us for years? Obraik you defend your beligerent partner eloquently however, you're paying money not for an item, but for the hope of getting an item. The more times you purchase that hope, the higher your chances increase in getting it. You don't have to pay, you can get these packs for free ingame, but isn't that just a method of getting your hopes up so that Smedley can draw you into his scam? I understand some refuse to buy these packs, but isn't it unfair to put this in a game with children, and disguise it as a fun side game to play for free inorder to lure them to the cash shop? Also let's be honest even SOE believes the mental age of the NGE target audience to be lower than your average MMO gamer "there was too much reading", "They want more kill/loot/repeat". Also all the time you're paying SOE to run a tiny Dev team of amatuers to patch in old content as new and they have the front to ask you to pay more money in the hope of getting it! SWG is a dying animal and Smed is now testing it in his lab of evil fleecing scams in preperation for the Agency. Any crazy idea that normally would get an executive or lead developer fired for suggesting is now tested out on the remenants of SWG. There is one question I'd like to ask Obraik and those that defend this method of trying to squeeze blood from a stone, is this TGC "Starwarsy"? I mean let's be serious, Chewbacca wastes a stormtrooper and Han shouts "Chewie check to see if he has any playing cards in his belt!". Then back on the Falcon they can't jump to Hyperspace and Liea shouts "Han give me the pack of cards!", opens them up and Han screams "Yeeee hhhhaaaa we just got a new hyperdrive, this could really save our necks!". Or how about when they were checking out Anekin "What are you doing?", "I'm checking your blood for Micro transactions", "Micro transactions? What are they?", "They are what give Jedi the power of the force, buffs and sexy pod racers!". The previous statment is only my own opinion and is in now way to be taken as fact, Agricola.
TCG's are very commonplace and have been for years, christ I remember football TCG's from 30 years ago and i know there were predecessors of this around in the 1950's. It's nothing new, companies have been doing it for decades in one form or another. Sure they are aimed at kids, they have always been aimed at kids, but so are gobstoppers and ice-cream, whats the problem?
Get off your high-horse and open your eyes to the world around you, it's been that way for years and it will always be that way, QQing at SoE for doing what others already do is ludicrous. There is obviously a market for it, if there wasn't then no-one would pay. Basic supply and demand economics for gods sake.
You don't like it or disagree with the ethics, then protest by not buying into it. Thats all you can do.
Well, that's fine and all, and I am not disagreeing. But so far, the state lottery commisions of 7 US states have disageed. That is why TCG card tournament entrants are not allow from various US states with more on the way. Why? Because you pay an entry fee, and "play" for prizes. Were this Texas Holdem, no one would argue it is gambling. The game is different, in this case, but not the mechanics, behind hiding behind the figleaf of a TCG and virtual property.
Also why non-US residents can not participate. SOE's lawyers told them not to allow it.
Originally posted by Obraik Well, it just makes sense :P I can't understand why a company should be forced to provide a reward to someone who doesn't even support their product. With "no purchase necessary" someone that's a fan of Pepsi and never buys Coke could enter the promotion - that makes no sense to me.
It also has something to do with requiring people to spend money on a product to have the chance to win a prize, which in essence is a lottery. Imagine if you will any company can sell a paperclip for $1.00, but you get the chance to win 1 million dollars.
I know I am missing the real meat of the reason this was put into law, but the general idea is that it is bad to require people to pay for something in order to have a chance to win something.
Ah, you are using the term "required," which is wrong. You get 5 free packs of cards each month. You are paying extra for more packs, i.e. more chances at the prize. But you are certainly not "required" to do so to play SWG, or to have at least some chance at the prize.
We were talking about the "no purchase necessary laws", but I see you missed the point of the discussion as usual.
The five "free" card packs aren't free, since you need to buy a subscription.
Not only that, but you can't compare these "cards" to Magic: The Gathering cards, because they aren't really "cards" at all. Collectors cards are owned, placed in a shoebox, and have a resale value long after they are printed. These virtual cards have none of those properties. They are virtual items that can be taken away, modified, or deleted at the will of the provider. The owner doesn't own them in any true sense. Once the game goes belly up, the ruse is over.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
The five "free" card packs aren't free, since you need to buy a subscription. Not only that, but you can't compare these "cards" to Magic: The Gathering cards, because they aren't really "cards" at all. Collectors cards are owned, placed in a shoebox, and have a resale value long after they are printed. These virtual cards have none of those properties. They are virtual items that can be taken away, modified, or deleted at the will of the provider. The owner doesn't own them in any true sense. Once the game goes belly up, the ruse is over.
Actually, you can compare the two.
Why?
Because magic the gathering has an online version too of course.
The five "free" card packs aren't free, since you need to buy a subscription. Not only that, but you can't compare these "cards" to Magic: The Gathering cards, because they aren't really "cards" at all. Collectors cards are owned, placed in a shoebox, and have a resale value long after they are printed. These virtual cards have none of those properties. They are virtual items that can be taken away, modified, or deleted at the will of the provider. The owner doesn't own them in any true sense. Once the game goes belly up, the ruse is over.
Actually, you can compare the two.
Why?
Because magic the gathering has an online version too of course.
Still can't compare the two, because Star Wars Galaxies TCG doesn't have a physical counterpart.
Not that the physical counterpart would sell, because I suspect that SOE knows that the only reason people are bothering with the TDC is for the loot cards.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Some of we "Vets" saw the implementation of the TCG as a "backdoor" RMT and called SOE on it. Looks like they are opening the front door.... This is from the official SOE site....
The Star Wars Galaxies Dodonna Tournament Pack is now available at the Station Store for a limited time. Just $10.00 USD (plus applicable taxes) gets you this pack, which contains the following: One (1) Jan Dodonna (1P3) promo card
One Ewok Vendor (1SWGP5) loot card
Three (3) Star Wars Galaxies Trading Card Game: Champions of the Force booster packs
We said the TCG = RMT . What else is this then? Add to this the fact that SOE has said it is acceptable to trade booster packs for in-game credits, and you have SOE-sponsored credit selling too, only with SOE pocketing the real cash. For all the people that shouted down the "vets" as whatever, all I have to say is SWG-NGERMT is here. It has begun..... UPDATE..... • New Loot Cards – More than 20 new Loot Cards will be available, including the V-wing Starfighter and a powerful buff, the Sanyassan Skull, that can be redeemed with an active account* in the Star Wars Galaxies MMO.
Pay SOE more money, get an advantage. Yeah, we vets didn't know what we were talking about or what was coming.....
Ummm I'd say it didn't take a Vet to know this. All your good ol boy backslapping is just making you look silly. If you want to prove that SWG Vets are somehow better then everyone else do something worthwhile like cure cancer or something already instead of parading around like some kinda self important asshat.
Ummm I'd say it didn't take a Vet to know this. All your good ol boy backslapping is just making you look silly. If you want to prove that SWG Vets are somehow better then everyone else do something worthwhile like cure cancer or something already instead of parading around like some kinda self important asshat.
Well I don't think anyone could be much more upset about what happened to SWG than *I* am...
But imho you pretty much hit the target dead on.
I mean just the way its presented... SWG Vets aka people who had their game ruined.. but also as if its unique to SWG or that SOE randomly decided to come into the remains of SWG for a money grab.
Forget the fact that the TCG was implemented in EQ1 and EQ2 before it was added to SWG. Forget the fact it was implemented in the exact same manner.. with the exact same issues.
It obviously would take a SWG "vet" to have the future seeing powers to know this was coming or what would happen. Because no one that plays EQ1 and/or EQ2 would already know.
Right down to the claims about moving resources from SWG to create this..
I mean that Denver studio that was set up a couple years ago to do TCG's exclusively... was just a myth.
I honestly don't think I can even relate to people who call themselves "swg vets" anymore.. or at least many of them.. even tho I played the game and miss it a lot.. because now it seems to enter a realm that requires medication to leave..
I would like to note that for anything, including games, it is typically 'whoever spends more is better'.
It's not for a flaw in the system or game itself, but because there is and always will be people willing to pay for just about anything so they can just sit back and 'reap the rewards'. Even if it's some thing as simple as getting some money in a game, leveling up, or finding a swanky item.
Gotta say, you would have to be one delusional kook to think this has not been going on in the game for some time all ready. Or would it be more the situation that by SOE creating a legal method along similar veins as all the companies that do it through illegal means too much of an undeniable actualization to the situation for one to cope with in their bubble?
In that light, I'm inclined to say that cards in the long run change absolutely nothing. The game willl continue to limp on be it with the 'veterans' or the new people, and everyone will just have to deal with it.
Wrong, in SWGs case anyway. You cant buy things like the "Cloak of Hate" etc. They can ONLY be achieved through the quests and collections.
I do concede part of your point however. There are always people who buy credits/isk/gold etc and they are time and time again the WORST players.
S
A big difference here, is that this is official sanctioned by SOE. Both the selling of card packs for cash, going to SOE, and people who buy and then resell for credits, again, sanctioned by SOE.
What game that is not a F2P does this?
So you have credit selling by a company and a RMT lottery in one.
Both negatively affect game play, and both sanctioned here by SOE.
I would also like to say that I'm not actually wrong in the case of SWG as I wasn'tsaying that you could outright buy an item for the game...through legal means.
The point I was making is that people are buying items in the game for real money on E-bay and other sites all the time in games that it is technically illegal to do so in. That's why 'farmers' and bots are such a rampant problemin pretty much every major mmo out there.
True, you have to do quests, collections, etc in order to get certain items. This doesn't stop the player in any way from paying other people to more or less do it for them still.
The point I was making is that SOE making these cards changes absolutely nothing about the situation in that regard save for it makes the situation the game is all ready in come to light in a legal sense.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Ummm I'd say it didn't take a Vet to know this. All your good ol boy backslapping is just making you look silly. If you want to prove that SWG Vets are somehow better then everyone else do something worthwhile like cure cancer or something already instead of parading around like some kinda self important asshat.
Well I don't think anyone could be much more upset about what happened to SWG than *I* am...
But imho you pretty much hit the target dead on.
I mean just the way its presented... SWG Vets aka people who had their game ruined.. but also as if its unique to SWG or that SOE randomly decided to come into the remains of SWG for a money grab.
Forget the fact that the TCG was implemented in EQ1 and EQ2 before it was added to SWG. Forget the fact it was implemented in the exact same manner.. with the exact same issues.
It obviously would take a SWG "vet" to have the future seeing powers to know this was coming or what would happen. Because no one that plays EQ1 and/or EQ2 would already know.
Right down to the claims about moving resources from SWG to create this..
I mean that Denver studio that was set up a couple years ago to do TCG's exclusively... was just a myth.
I honestly don't think I can even relate to people who call themselves "swg vets" anymore.. or at least many of them.. even tho I played the game and miss it a lot.. because now it seems to enter a realm that requires medication to leave..
Gee, hateful much?
If people that played EQ/EQ2 had all this stuff happen to them, why didn't they say anything? Why didn't they call SOE on it? Why didn't they start such a ruckus about this issue, that it caused public scrutiny to be put on SOE and its business practices? Why did it fall on us "vets" to call SOE on it and start writing State lottery commisions and consumer affairs agencies over this (sent 4 myself, and got 3 answers so far)? If EQ/EQ2 players did, would SOE have even bothered doing it to SWG?
Who is an SWG "Vet"? One, primarily at this point, who used to play SWG and got the business end of SOE's shady business practices. We also aren't going to be quiet about our experiences. By speaking out, if we cause other game companies to not act as SOE has, then that is better for everyone.
Did anyone ever say we were better than anyone or thought we were better than anyone? Nope. But we aren't believing a word SOE says or that they do anything for any reason other than money. Not to put out a better product, not to offer something good to a customer. More money for the next quarter is all SOE cares about, and NO ONE should ever forget that.
I can't think of any other company to pull even 1/10th the shady things SOE has, and if by us calling them on it, some other company will put out a better product or see what happens to a company that takes it customers for granted, then that's fine.
The TCG is just the latest in a long line of SOE scams that were intended to benefit SOE and not the customer.
If EQ/EQ2 players got this same deal, shame on them for not speaking up.
That should be written in stone and put up in SOE's office When has SOE ever lied? hahaha!Sry that really made me laugh so hard haha
It's one big money machine, if they can't get it the normal way they will sqeeze it out of you. Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime.
I can understand they want 1 or 2 months extra out of you, but 1 year that's just insane.
A few more bits from threads on the offical boards, continuing to show things ain't all rosy in SWG over this TCG scam:
Amellie:
This is about the end SWG gameplay effects so please don't lock as the two things are irrepairably linked
in otherwords as long as I don't swear of flame this thread is safe. (Lockproof disclaimer)
Crafters are upset due to V wing. The non TCG playing 3/4 of the playerbase are upset due to exclusive buffs rewards.
And more items coming soonTM to shaft structure traders/engineers too.
When will SOE move away from the loot culture and return to honor the crafting community?
We have AFK looters for RE everywhere as a result of the junkloot. Why not just let resources dictate quality of SEAs etc.
Give the traders back the power and bring community back to SWG.
I know you enjoy the 1.99 each time a sap tries for these loot cards but we are sick of being milked
Our subscription should be enough. Stop the TCG loot scam. Don't make gamblers out of teenagers.
Shame on you SOE for this and for shunning the crafting community.
pqm2b2:
:Well said. The TCG is nothing better than a pure money scam, no better than the Credit farmers we have been plagued with ingame.
I have a combat toon and a Crafter ShipWright and I am personally disgusted that this V-wing is a TCG item.
I have a mind to cancel my 2 accounts as I am not putting up with this kind of nonsense.
Yeh and thats right a paying customer since Oct 2003.......!
Vincerkaden:
SOE is testing its players and may be discovering that "we" are willing to pay for content beyond what our subscription fee gets us.
SOE has us well-conditioned and right where they want us. Here's what's happening.
1. Players purchase TCG cards to acquire the desired content.
2. Clearly the most desirable is more rare. (How many bodyguard jackets do YOU have?)
3. Players urge SOE to stop introducing content via the TCG; mostly because "We don't want the TCG"
4. SOE obliges and begins offering loot from the SOE store, rather then from (in addition to?) the TCG packs
5. SOE has then successfully conditioned us into accepting a "pay for content" policy, and we almost asked for it. We're doing it now through the illusion of the TCG.
And that's when things go from bad to worse. SOE has proven they have no real grasp of "cause and effect" (like the forthcoming server merges that we're not supposed to be able to guess about). The day we can only get new content by paying extra for it is the day I cancel. I don't think I'll be the only one.
Landlord40:
The problem is not that they give us stuff in the TCG, its that the stuff should be crafted. A count dooku bust should be crafted by structures, a vehicle should be crafted by engineers, there should be absolutely no buffs awarded "gorax ear".
They keep bringing down the magical creation path, and that is exactly the reason we dont play the other games.
Plenty more pop up, but the Mods delete these threads very quickly over there....
A few more bits from threads on the offical boards, continuing to show things ain't all rosy in SWG over this TCG scam:
Amellie:
This is about the end SWG gameplay effects so please don't lock as the two things are irrepairably linked
in otherwords as long as I don't swear of flame this thread is safe. (Lockproof disclaimer) Crafters are upset due to V wing. The non TCG playing 3/4 of the playerbase are upset due to exclusive buffs rewards.
And more items coming soonTM to shaft structure traders/engineers too. When will SOE move away from the loot culture and return to honor the crafting community?
We have AFK looters for RE everywhere as a result of the junkloot. Why not just let resources dictate quality of SEAs etc.
Give the traders back the power and bring community back to SWG. I know you enjoy the 1.99 each time a sap tries for these loot cards but we are sick of being milked Our subscription should be enough. Stop the TCG loot scam. Don't make gamblers out of teenagers.
Shame on you SOE for this and for shunning the crafting community.
pqm2b2: :Well said. The TCG is nothing better than a pure money scam, no better than the Credit farmers we have been plagued with ingame. I have a combat toon and a Crafter ShipWright and I am personally disgusted that this V-wing is a TCG item. I have a mind to cancel my 2 accounts as I am not putting up with this kind of nonsense. Yeh and thats right a paying customer since Oct 2003.......!
Vincerkaden: SOE is testing its players and may be discovering that "we" are willing to pay for content beyond what our subscription fee gets us. SOE has us well-conditioned and right where they want us. Here's what's happening. 1. Players purchase TCG cards to acquire the desired content.
2. Clearly the most desirable is more rare. (How many bodyguard jackets do YOU have?)
3. Players urge SOE to stop introducing content via the TCG; mostly because "We don't want the TCG"
4. SOE obliges and begins offering loot from the SOE store, rather then from (in addition to?) the TCG packs
5. SOE has then successfully conditioned us into accepting a "pay for content" policy, and we almost asked for it. We're doing it now through the illusion of the TCG. And that's when things go from bad to worse. SOE has proven they have no real grasp of "cause and effect" (like the forthcoming server merges that we're not supposed to be able to guess about). The day we can only get new content by paying extra for it is the day I cancel. I don't think I'll be the only one.
Landlord40:
The problem is not that they give us stuff in the TCG, its that the stuff should be crafted. A count dooku bust should be crafted by structures, a vehicle should be crafted by engineers, there should be absolutely no buffs awarded "gorax ear". They keep bringing down the magical creation path, and that is exactly the reason we dont play the other games.
Plenty more pop up, but the Mods delete these threads very quickly over there....
These complaints are no surprise to me whatsoever. I mean ask any player of SWG this question: "Would you rather have new vehicles added to the game as part of your subscription fee, or would you like to gamble for them with real cash, and most likely not get what you're after?" What do you think most people are going to say? Well you've just copied and pasted the expected responses of course. Paying a subscription fee for months hoping that a new vehicle will drop randomly for you is also much less appealing I'm sure than being able to craft or purchase one with ingame (i.e. fake, not real) cash.
Remember when MMO's would introduce new rewards along with new quests in content updates? Remember when new schematics would be added as part of subscription fees, and people could actually craft, buy and sell goods with ingame currency? I remember. Good times all around.
That should be written in stone and put up in SOE's office When has SOE ever lied? hahaha!Sry that really made me laugh so hard haha
It's one big money machine, if they can't get it the normal way they will sqeeze it out of you. Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime.
I can understand they want 1 or 2 months extra out of you, but 1 year that's just insane.
Anything to sqeeze the money out of you.
"Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime."
Huh?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Amazing to read people freaking out over this, not sure if they did it first but blizzard came out witha TCG for WoW, its been doing really good and it has the loot card stuff, some people have gotten upset because they want the items and don't want to buy the cards but people buy them like crazy, i've even bought some, not just for the loot cards but to actually play it on the side. (used to play MTG alot hehe)
I don't see the big deal, even the WoW loot cards are just cosmetic or fun stuff, they do give mounts through them but nothing that would alter the game in any way...guess just becuase its SOE people will turn it into more than what it is.
Blizzard is also thinking of putting in paid changes like going beyond the barbershop thing they added, guess once blizzard does this you will see more and more people paying for things.
I won't, i don't see the point but their are tons of people willing to pay for stuff so why wouldn't a company go with it, their goal is to make as much money as possible.
i see a lot of old school gamers freaking out over this stuff more then the new gamers hell i've been playing games for ages lol...anyways i used to get mad about all this stuff but now i realise there's no point in it, i'm either gonna have to adapt if i wanna keep enjoying games or stop playing them...it is sad this is the future of gaming but i enjoy gaming too much to give it up
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Amazing to read people freaking out over this, not sure if they did it first but blizzard came out witha TCG for WoW, its been doing really good and it has the loot card stuff, some people have gotten upset because they want the items and don't want to buy the cards but people buy them like crazy, i've even bought some, not just for the loot cards but to actually play it on the side. (used to play MTG alot hehe) I don't see the big deal, even the WoW loot cards are just cosmetic or fun stuff, they do give mounts through them but nothing that would alter the game in any way...guess just becuase its SOE people will turn it into more than what it is. Blizzard is also thinking of putting in paid changes like going beyond the barbershop thing they added, guess once blizzard does this you will see more and more people paying for things. I won't, i don't see the point but their are tons of people willing to pay for stuff so why wouldn't a company go with it, their goal is to make as much money as possible. i see a lot of old school gamers freaking out over this stuff more then the new gamers hell i've been playing games for ages lol...anyways i used to get mad about all this stuff but now i realise there's no point in it, i'm either gonna have to adapt if i wanna keep enjoying games or stop playing them...it is sad this is the future of gaming but i enjoy gaming too much to give it up
The big problem they are and are going to run into is that it is both gambling or gambling like activity AND targeted at those under the age of 18. In the US at least, no one under 18 can legally gamble, buy a lottery ticket or lay a wager in a casino. Regardless of whether it is legal or not for adults to do so. That fact that it is targeting the under 18 crowd is the thing that is going to get SOE over this.
I personally informed the state lottery commissions and/or consumer protection bureaus for the 4 states surrounding the one I live in about what the SOE TCG is doing, how it is being run and marketed, and multiple websites selling the loot cards for hundreds of dollars, in some cases.
I have so far received 3 responses. One was a form letter type "thank you for bringing this to our attention" kind of mail, and I don't expect anything to come from that one. From the other two, however, I have received more than one follow up email asking me questions for clarification and have even received secondary emails from an investigator from one of these organizations. So, authorities ARE starting to look at this. Their initial feeling is that it probably constitutes a lottery or contest (especially the tournaments), and that they may be violating state gaming laws by doing so. Not my opinion, theirs.
Amazing to read people freaking out over this, not sure if they did it first but blizzard came out witha TCG for WoW, its been doing really good and it has the loot card stuff, some people have gotten upset because they want the items and don't want to buy the cards but people buy them like crazy, i've even bought some, not just for the loot cards but to actually play it on the side. (used to play MTG alot hehe) I don't see the big deal, even the WoW loot cards are just cosmetic or fun stuff, they do give mounts through them but nothing that would alter the game in any way...guess just becuase its SOE people will turn it into more than what it is. Blizzard is also thinking of putting in paid changes like going beyond the barbershop thing they added, guess once blizzard does this you will see more and more people paying for things. I won't, i don't see the point but their are tons of people willing to pay for stuff so why wouldn't a company go with it, their goal is to make as much money as possible. i see a lot of old school gamers freaking out over this stuff more then the new gamers hell i've been playing games for ages lol...anyways i used to get mad about all this stuff but now i realise there's no point in it, i'm either gonna have to adapt if i wanna keep enjoying games or stop playing them...it is sad this is the future of gaming but i enjoy gaming too much to give it up
Terrible comparison Scalebane. Blizzards card game actually gives your a phsyical card. It cannot be played inside the MMO and the cards cannot be sold for gold, traded as in game currency that can be purchased with real life currency.
I think Blizzard is walking a slippery slope by introducing in game items through their card game, but the are all 100% cosmetic and do not take away from any players chosen ingame profession. Furthermore you can see clearly what SOEs motives are and that is to turn their subscription based customers into additional revenue sources with real money transactions.
You can see it in EQ and EQ2 as they are starting to add xp potions, real tangible game effecting items and so forth. They are taking baby steps to see just how far they can push things as a trial run.
I hope all the data they are gathering is wrong, because they have perhaps the largest base of players who will accept whatever mistreatment a company can dish out and this blows up in their face when they launch the agency, free realms and dco.
However this is a very bad and dangerous precident being set. Lets not try to belittle it by saying how ineffective these items are and how harmless this practice is. We all know what this is building up to. People who are trying to downplay this are just not being honest about the potential effects this will have on the future of gaming.
However this is a very bad and dangerous precident being set. Lets not try to belittle it by saying how ineffective these items are and how harmless this practice is. We all know what this is building up to. People who are trying to downplay this are just not being honest about the potential effects this will have on the future of gaming.
I have to agree with this.
I believe they're easing people into it. By making these items only mildly effective now opens the door for people to become increasingly comfortable with paying for items - and therefore encouraging people to become more accepeting of items with greater effectiveness in the future.
I believe this because if it were me (and I had no scrupples) this is exactly how I would do it.
Amazing to read people freaking out over this, not sure if they did it first but blizzard came out witha TCG for WoW, its been doing really good and it has the loot card stuff, some people have gotten upset because they want the items and don't want to buy the cards but people buy them like crazy, i've even bought some, not just for the loot cards but to actually play it on the side. (used to play MTG alot hehe) I don't see the big deal, even the WoW loot cards are just cosmetic or fun stuff, they do give mounts through them but nothing that would alter the game in any way...guess just becuase its SOE people will turn it into more than what it is. Blizzard is also thinking of putting in paid changes like going beyond the barbershop thing they added, guess once blizzard does this you will see more and more people paying for things. I won't, i don't see the point but their are tons of people willing to pay for stuff so why wouldn't a company go with it, their goal is to make as much money as possible. i see a lot of old school gamers freaking out over this stuff more then the new gamers hell i've been playing games for ages lol...anyways i used to get mad about all this stuff but now i realise there's no point in it, i'm either gonna have to adapt if i wanna keep enjoying games or stop playing them...it is sad this is the future of gaming but i enjoy gaming too much to give it up
Terrible comparison Scalebane. Blizzards card game actually gives your a phsyical card. It cannot be played inside the MMO and the cards cannot be sold for gold, traded as in game currency that can be purchased with real life currency.
I think Blizzard is walking a slippery slope by introducing in game items through their card game, but the are all 100% cosmetic and do not take away from any players chosen ingame profession. Furthermore you can see clearly what SOEs motives are and that is to turn their subscription based customers into additional revenue sources with real money transactions.
You can see it in EQ and EQ2 as they are starting to add xp potions, real tangible game effecting items and so forth. They are taking baby steps to see just how far they can push things as a trial run.
I hope all the data they are gathering is wrong, because they have perhaps the largest base of players who will accept whatever mistreatment a company can dish out and this blows up in their face when they launch the agency, free realms and dco.
However this is a very bad and dangerous precident being set. Lets not try to belittle it by saying how ineffective these items are and how harmless this practice is. We all know what this is building up to. People who are trying to downplay this are just not being honest about the potential effects this will have on the future of gaming.
sure about that? i'm pretty sure i seen packs of their TCG on the local walmart card area...guess ill have to look at that again.
Are they really marketting it towards kids? i mean seriously how many kids actually play p2p mmo's, not very many from what i have seen, they are all in the f2p mmo games. Since they couldn't even buy this stuff without their parents then isn't it the responsibility of the parents to not let them have any TCG cards? I personally love TCG's i've played many of them, went to tournaments, seen very very few kids, if any at all and they weren't playing the card games...people say SWG doesn't have very many players right? so how are they selling the cards to kids then, how many kids are gonna be playing swg?
I don't really think this is about companies selling tcg cards is it, i think people are freaking out that the future of this genre is to pay for everything, who knows i don't...i go on the WoW forums and see people willing to shell out cash for everything, can't blame the company for going with it, it sucks and will probably drive me back to single player games but i doubt these TCG's will be shutdown.
Even if they do anything about them, they will just make them follow an age limit to buy them and parents will just buy the cards anyways.
All these TCG's have special cards people go crazy buying boxes/cases for should we shutdown all TCG's?
People tried to sue pokemon and say it was gambling, the case was thrown out of court from what i understand. (been trying to find out for sure what happened thought, but apparently it didn't go anywhere)
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Comments
Its a trading card game. Trading card. You may be paying a monthly service to SWG...but you opt to play the TCG. And just like regular trading cards..people dump shitloads of money into many packs or boxes of packs...in hopes to get that one rookie card or hologram that they want. Its not gambling...other wise the various lottery commissions would be all over Fleer or Topps or whoever makes TCs these days. Cause we all know what price some of those rare card-types can fetch. Not to mention the same for other TCG like Magic the gathering.
Its also funny how a "dead" game has so much life on the forums.
Comparing the loot card lottery to other trading card game misses some important differences. The most obvious is that the loot cards aren't actually part of the trading card game. They are dangled perks for the MMO. SOE dangles them, and people who play the MMO are enticed to gamble for them. There's nothing like this in the trading card games you mention.
Also, people are already paying a subscription fee for the MMO, but now they need to gamble for loot cards to get the fastest vehicle, or to obtain additional buffs to combat statistics. So, even though they're paying a subscription fee, they become less competitive and cannot obtain collectibles without playing the lottery.
Also, these are virtual, not actual, cards. So you pay money to gamble for them, and even if you win, you actually own--nothing. Furthermore the rarity of desirable "cards" can be manipulated by SOE at any time, at their sole discretion.
These issues don't apply to the actual trading card games on the market today. SOE is charting new territory here in a number of ways.
Re. life on the forums, SOE seems to have a way of managing this game that goes from one controversy to the next. From a broken and dissappointing release, to a number of unwanted revamps, to allegations of bait and switch and massive refunds, to a loot card lottery system, SOE has taken an internationally known IP and dragged it through the mud for years. This seems to hold people's attention. Also, many former players have had the progress and game they enjoyed removed or altered beyond recognition. All that remains is to discuss the latest scandal and ponder what might have been.
Comparing the loot card lottery to other trading card game misses some important differences. The most obvious is that the loot cards aren't actually part of the trading card game. They are dangled perks for the MMO. SOE dangles them, and people who play the MMO are enticed to gamble for them. There's nothing like this in the trading card games you mention.
Also, people are already paying a subscription fee for the MMO, but now they need to gamble for loot cards to get the fastest vehicle, or to obtain additional buffs to combat statistics. So, even though they're paying a subscription fee, they become less competitive and cannot obtain collectibles without playing the lottery.
Also, these are virtual, not actual, cards. So you pay money to gamble for them, and even if you win, you actually own--nothing. Furthermore the rarity of desirable "cards" can be manipulated by SOE at any time, at their sole discretion.
These issues don't apply to the actual trading card games on the market today. SOE is charting new territory here in a number of ways.
Re. life on the forums, SOE seems to have a way of managing this game that goes from one controversy to the next. From a broken and dissappointing release, to a number of unwanted revamps, to allegations of bait and switch and massive refunds, to a loot card lottery system, SOE has taken an internationally known IP and dragged it through the mud for years. This seems to hold people's attention. Also, many former players have had the progress and game they enjoyed removed or altered beyond recognition. All that remains is to discuss the latest scandal and ponder what might have been.
nah, there is lots of discussion on the forums outside of the usual SOE bashing. No, its not cool to like SWG and people pretend to not like it while playing every day. Its funny, tbh
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
Save your "predictions" about SWG's imminent demise for the Veteran's refuge. This thread is about the TCG.
S
Looks to me like this thread is about the game's dying throes, and SOE's attempted manipulation of the TCG to leech as much money out of it as possible. Predictions of the game's future while discussing these things seems perfectly normal to me.
No its not, its about the TCG. If you'd like to make predictions about SWG's demise, there are have been threads pertaining to that in the Veteran's refuge since 2005.
Some people dont realise that there are games with lower populations that are still around. There is no reason to believe that SWG wont be around for a least another 3 or 4 years.
Some people think SW:TOR will kill SWG, I dont believe that either. It will certainly entice a good part of the SWG player base to try it but since they are so different in terms of type of game, I really dont see it "killing" SWG.
The NGE didnt kill SWG outright (although it was a damn good try), so I dont think anything else will.
S
I am, and was talking about the financial reasoning behind the TCG, which is completely on topic.
XD
I'm not going to debate the merits or detrimental quality of this loot system via card game. People have already debated that enough. Nor am I going to debate whether it is legal gambling, illegal gambling, or not gambling. I think we all know what it is.
What I am going to talk about is how clear it all seems now: why crafting had to die, why decay had to die, why loot and non-trade had to be mandated. It isn't the reasons wew were given by Rubenfield, Smed, and Torres. It was because you can't do the sort of crazy promotional stunts SOE did with the old Pre-CU game.
But answer me this, fanbois. How do vet rewards add to the game? How do pre-order items and free items in expansions add to the game? How do these loot cards add to the game?
They don't add anything to the game, but not because they aren't good items that are desirable. They don't add anything to the game because you don't even have to play to get them, you only have to pay.
Now of course, that's the intent. They offer these neat things like the AT walker and the holograms to get people to buy the products and services they want the players to buy. It works. Nobody is denying that, but how much better would the game be if these items were crafted or quested for, rather than simply given for a pricetag? In short, these items are expensive, but the very expense of these things belies a "cheap" game: one that has to rely on promotional gimmicks to survive rather than a good experience.
Now I know full well that SOE is a business and making money is important. But nobody ever became important in business without having a vision about something more than money. What does SOE want MMOs to look like in the next ten years? Is it someplace you'd want to be with rich gameplay, immersiveness, and depth? Or is it going to be an endless array of promotional stunts and gimmicks to get more money out of you, like the casinos do, but without all the cheap drinks, girlys, and ambiance of a real casino?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
From what I've read in this thread it seems obvious to me that SWG is now an open alpha test for the Agency ...... and you're paying a subscription for it too! The people left playing SWG have taken so much BS in the past, like a wife that's been abused over several years by a violent husband, what difference does another beating make?
There are so few left playing SWG that Smedley is just using it as a testing ground for future "enterprises" now. He's crazy about micro transactions but realizes that western audiences dislike this method of payment as it is so easily abused by both unscrupolous players and companies alike. So perhaps this is his method of weening the western playerbase onto the micro transaction system he's been trying so hard to sell us for years?
Obraik you defend your beligerent partner eloquently however, you're paying money not for an item, but for the hope of getting an item. The more times you purchase that hope, the higher your chances increase in getting it. You don't have to pay, you can get these packs for free ingame, but isn't that just a method of getting your hopes up so that Smedley can draw you into his scam?
I understand some refuse to buy these packs, but isn't it unfair to put this in a game with children, and disguise it as a fun side game to play for free inorder to lure them to the cash shop? Also let's be honest even SOE believes the mental age of the NGE target audience to be lower than your average MMO gamer "there was too much reading", "They want more kill/loot/repeat".
Also all the time you're paying SOE to run a tiny Dev team of amatuers to patch in old content as new and they have the front to ask you to pay more money in the hope of getting it!
SWG is a dying animal and Smed is now testing it in his lab of evil fleecing scams in preperation for the Agency. Any crazy idea that normally would get an executive or lead developer fired for suggesting is now tested out on the remenants of SWG. There is one question I'd like to ask Obraik and those that defend this method of trying to squeeze blood from a stone, is this TGC "Starwarsy"? I mean let's be serious, Chewbacca wastes a stormtrooper and Han shouts "Chewie check to see if he has any playing cards in his belt!". Then back on the Falcon they can't jump to Hyperspace and Liea shouts "Han give me the pack of cards!", opens them up and Han screams "Yeeee hhhhaaaa we just got a new hyperdrive, this could really save our necks!". Or how about when they were checking out Anekin "What are you doing?", "I'm checking your blood for Micro transactions", "Micro transactions? What are they?", "They are what give Jedi the power of the force, buffs and sexy pod racers!".
The previous statment is only my own opinion and is in now way to be taken as fact,
Agricola.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
TCG's are very commonplace and have been for years, christ I remember football TCG's from 30 years ago and i know there were predecessors of this around in the 1950's. It's nothing new, companies have been doing it for decades in one form or another. Sure they are aimed at kids, they have always been aimed at kids, but so are gobstoppers and ice-cream, whats the problem?
Get off your high-horse and open your eyes to the world around you, it's been that way for years and it will always be that way, QQing at SoE for doing what others already do is ludicrous. There is obviously a market for it, if there wasn't then no-one would pay. Basic supply and demand economics for gods sake.
You don't like it or disagree with the ethics, then protest by not buying into it. Thats all you can do.
Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy
TCG's are very commonplace and have been for years, christ I remember football TCG's from 30 years ago and i know there were predecessors of this around in the 1950's. It's nothing new, companies have been doing it for decades in one form or another. Sure they are aimed at kids, they have always been aimed at kids, but so are gobstoppers and ice-cream, whats the problem?
Get off your high-horse and open your eyes to the world around you, it's been that way for years and it will always be that way, QQing at SoE for doing what others already do is ludicrous. There is obviously a market for it, if there wasn't then no-one would pay. Basic supply and demand economics for gods sake.
You don't like it or disagree with the ethics, then protest by not buying into it. Thats all you can do.
Well, that's fine and all, and I am not disagreeing. But so far, the state lottery commisions of 7 US states have disageed. That is why TCG card tournament entrants are not allow from various US states with more on the way. Why? Because you pay an entry fee, and "play" for prizes. Were this Texas Holdem, no one would argue it is gambling. The game is different, in this case, but not the mechanics, behind hiding behind the figleaf of a TCG and virtual property.
Also why non-US residents can not participate. SOE's lawyers told them not to allow it.
It also has something to do with requiring people to spend money on a product to have the chance to win a prize, which in essence is a lottery. Imagine if you will any company can sell a paperclip for $1.00, but you get the chance to win 1 million dollars.
I know I am missing the real meat of the reason this was put into law, but the general idea is that it is bad to require people to pay for something in order to have a chance to win something.
Ah, you are using the term "required," which is wrong. You get 5 free packs of cards each month. You are paying extra for more packs, i.e. more chances at the prize. But you are certainly not "required" to do so to play SWG, or to have at least some chance at the prize.
We were talking about the "no purchase necessary laws", but I see you missed the point of the discussion as usual.
The five "free" card packs aren't free, since you need to buy a subscription.
Not only that, but you can't compare these "cards" to Magic: The Gathering cards, because they aren't really "cards" at all. Collectors cards are owned, placed in a shoebox, and have a resale value long after they are printed. These virtual cards have none of those properties. They are virtual items that can be taken away, modified, or deleted at the will of the provider. The owner doesn't own them in any true sense. Once the game goes belly up, the ruse is over.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Actually, you can compare the two.
Why?
Because magic the gathering has an online version too of course.
Actually, you can compare the two.
Why?
Because magic the gathering has an online version too of course.
Still can't compare the two, because Star Wars Galaxies TCG doesn't have a physical counterpart.
Not that the physical counterpart would sell, because I suspect that SOE knows that the only reason people are bothering with the TDC is for the loot cards.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Ummm I'd say it didn't take a Vet to know this. All your good ol boy backslapping is just making you look silly. If you want to prove that SWG Vets are somehow better then everyone else do something worthwhile like cure cancer or something already instead of parading around like some kinda self important asshat.
Well I don't think anyone could be much more upset about what happened to SWG than *I* am...
But imho you pretty much hit the target dead on.
I mean just the way its presented... SWG Vets aka people who had their game ruined.. but also as if its unique to SWG or that SOE randomly decided to come into the remains of SWG for a money grab.
Forget the fact that the TCG was implemented in EQ1 and EQ2 before it was added to SWG. Forget the fact it was implemented in the exact same manner.. with the exact same issues.
It obviously would take a SWG "vet" to have the future seeing powers to know this was coming or what would happen. Because no one that plays EQ1 and/or EQ2 would already know.
Right down to the claims about moving resources from SWG to create this..
I mean that Denver studio that was set up a couple years ago to do TCG's exclusively... was just a myth.
I honestly don't think I can even relate to people who call themselves "swg vets" anymore.. or at least many of them.. even tho I played the game and miss it a lot.. because now it seems to enter a realm that requires medication to leave..
Wrong, in SWGs case anyway. You cant buy things like the "Cloak of Hate" etc. They can ONLY be achieved through the quests and collections.
I do concede part of your point however. There are always people who buy credits/isk/gold etc and they are time and time again the WORST players.
S
A big difference here, is that this is official sanctioned by SOE. Both the selling of card packs for cash, going to SOE, and people who buy and then resell for credits, again, sanctioned by SOE.
What game that is not a F2P does this?
So you have credit selling by a company and a RMT lottery in one.
Both negatively affect game play, and both sanctioned here by SOE.
I would also like to say that I'm not actually wrong in the case of SWG as I wasn'tsaying that you could outright buy an item for the game...through legal means.
The point I was making is that people are buying items in the game for real money on E-bay and other sites all the time in games that it is technically illegal to do so in. That's why 'farmers' and bots are such a rampant problemin pretty much every major mmo out there.
True, you have to do quests, collections, etc in order to get certain items. This doesn't stop the player in any way from paying other people to more or less do it for them still.
The point I was making is that SOE making these cards changes absolutely nothing about the situation in that regard save for it makes the situation the game is all ready in come to light in a legal sense.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Well I don't think anyone could be much more upset about what happened to SWG than *I* am...
But imho you pretty much hit the target dead on.
I mean just the way its presented... SWG Vets aka people who had their game ruined.. but also as if its unique to SWG or that SOE randomly decided to come into the remains of SWG for a money grab.
Forget the fact that the TCG was implemented in EQ1 and EQ2 before it was added to SWG. Forget the fact it was implemented in the exact same manner.. with the exact same issues.
It obviously would take a SWG "vet" to have the future seeing powers to know this was coming or what would happen. Because no one that plays EQ1 and/or EQ2 would already know.
Right down to the claims about moving resources from SWG to create this..
I mean that Denver studio that was set up a couple years ago to do TCG's exclusively... was just a myth.
I honestly don't think I can even relate to people who call themselves "swg vets" anymore.. or at least many of them.. even tho I played the game and miss it a lot.. because now it seems to enter a realm that requires medication to leave..
Gee, hateful much?
If people that played EQ/EQ2 had all this stuff happen to them, why didn't they say anything? Why didn't they call SOE on it? Why didn't they start such a ruckus about this issue, that it caused public scrutiny to be put on SOE and its business practices? Why did it fall on us "vets" to call SOE on it and start writing State lottery commisions and consumer affairs agencies over this (sent 4 myself, and got 3 answers so far)? If EQ/EQ2 players did, would SOE have even bothered doing it to SWG?
Who is an SWG "Vet"? One, primarily at this point, who used to play SWG and got the business end of SOE's shady business practices. We also aren't going to be quiet about our experiences. By speaking out, if we cause other game companies to not act as SOE has, then that is better for everyone.
Did anyone ever say we were better than anyone or thought we were better than anyone? Nope. But we aren't believing a word SOE says or that they do anything for any reason other than money. Not to put out a better product, not to offer something good to a customer. More money for the next quarter is all SOE cares about, and NO ONE should ever forget that.
I can't think of any other company to pull even 1/10th the shady things SOE has, and if by us calling them on it, some other company will put out a better product or see what happens to a company that takes it customers for granted, then that's fine.
The TCG is just the latest in a long line of SOE scams that were intended to benefit SOE and not the customer.
If EQ/EQ2 players got this same deal, shame on them for not speaking up.
That should be written in stone and put up in SOE's office
When has SOE ever lied? hahaha!Sry that really made me laugh so hard haha 
It's one big money machine, if they can't get it the normal way they will sqeeze it out of you. Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime.
I can understand they want 1 or 2 months extra out of you, but 1 year that's just insane.
Anything to sqeeze the money out of you.
A few more bits from threads on the offical boards, continuing to show things ain't all rosy in SWG over this TCG scam:
Amellie:
This is about the end SWG gameplay effects so please don't lock as the two things are irrepairably linked
in otherwords as long as I don't swear of flame this thread is safe. (Lockproof disclaimer)
Crafters are upset due to V wing. The non TCG playing 3/4 of the playerbase are upset due to exclusive buffs rewards.
And more items coming soonTM to shaft structure traders/engineers too.
When will SOE move away from the loot culture and return to honor the crafting community?
We have AFK looters for RE everywhere as a result of the junkloot. Why not just let resources dictate quality of SEAs etc.
Give the traders back the power and bring community back to SWG.
I know you enjoy the 1.99 each time a sap tries for these loot cards but we are sick of being milked
Our subscription should be enough. Stop the TCG loot scam. Don't make gamblers out of teenagers.
Shame on you SOE for this and for shunning the crafting community.
pqm2b2:
:Well said. The TCG is nothing better than a pure money scam, no better than the Credit farmers we have been plagued with ingame.
I have a combat toon and a Crafter ShipWright and I am personally disgusted that this V-wing is a TCG item.
I have a mind to cancel my 2 accounts as I am not putting up with this kind of nonsense.
Yeh and thats right a paying customer since Oct 2003.......!
Vincerkaden:
SOE is testing its players and may be discovering that "we" are willing to pay for content beyond what our subscription fee gets us.
SOE has us well-conditioned and right where they want us. Here's what's happening.
1. Players purchase TCG cards to acquire the desired content.
2. Clearly the most desirable is more rare. (How many bodyguard jackets do YOU have?)
3. Players urge SOE to stop introducing content via the TCG; mostly because "We don't want the TCG"
4. SOE obliges and begins offering loot from the SOE store, rather then from (in addition to?) the TCG packs
5. SOE has then successfully conditioned us into accepting a "pay for content" policy, and we almost asked for it. We're doing it now through the illusion of the TCG.
And that's when things go from bad to worse. SOE has proven they have no real grasp of "cause and effect" (like the forthcoming server merges that we're not supposed to be able to guess about). The day we can only get new content by paying extra for it is the day I cancel. I don't think I'll be the only one.
Landlord40:
The problem is not that they give us stuff in the TCG, its that the stuff should be crafted. A count dooku bust should be crafted by structures, a vehicle should be crafted by engineers, there should be absolutely no buffs awarded "gorax ear".
They keep bringing down the magical creation path, and that is exactly the reason we dont play the other games.
Plenty more pop up, but the Mods delete these threads very quickly over there....
These complaints are no surprise to me whatsoever. I mean ask any player of SWG this question: "Would you rather have new vehicles added to the game as part of your subscription fee, or would you like to gamble for them with real cash, and most likely not get what you're after?" What do you think most people are going to say? Well you've just copied and pasted the expected responses of course. Paying a subscription fee for months hoping that a new vehicle will drop randomly for you is also much less appealing I'm sure than being able to craft or purchase one with ingame (i.e. fake, not real) cash.
Remember when MMO's would introduce new rewards along with new quests in content updates? Remember when new schematics would be added as part of subscription fees, and people could actually craft, buy and sell goods with ingame currency? I remember. Good times all around.
That should be written in stone and put up in SOE's office
When has SOE ever lied? hahaha!Sry that really made me laugh so hard haha 
It's one big money machine, if they can't get it the normal way they will sqeeze it out of you. Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime.
I can understand they want 1 or 2 months extra out of you, but 1 year that's just insane.
Anything to sqeeze the money out of you.
"Heck if you missed a monthly payment they will lock/ban your account until you pay a year's of subscription and that's only for unban/unlocking it again without playtime."
Huh?
So I started to walk into the water. I won't lie to you boys...I was terrified. But I pressed on, and as I made my way past the breakers, a strange calm came over me. I don't know if it was divine intervention or the kinship of all living things, but I tell you, Jerry, at that moment ... I was a marine biologist.
Amazing to read people freaking out over this, not sure if they did it first but blizzard came out witha TCG for WoW, its been doing really good and it has the loot card stuff, some people have gotten upset because they want the items and don't want to buy the cards but people buy them like crazy, i've even bought some, not just for the loot cards but to actually play it on the side. (used to play MTG alot hehe)
I don't see the big deal, even the WoW loot cards are just cosmetic or fun stuff, they do give mounts through them but nothing that would alter the game in any way...guess just becuase its SOE people will turn it into more than what it is.
Blizzard is also thinking of putting in paid changes like going beyond the barbershop thing they added, guess once blizzard does this you will see more and more people paying for things.
I won't, i don't see the point but their are tons of people willing to pay for stuff so why wouldn't a company go with it, their goal is to make as much money as possible.
i see a lot of old school gamers freaking out over this stuff more then the new gamers hell i've been playing games for ages lol...anyways i used to get mad about all this stuff but now i realise there's no point in it, i'm either gonna have to adapt if i wanna keep enjoying games or stop playing them...it is sad this is the future of gaming but i enjoy gaming too much to give it up
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
The big problem they are and are going to run into is that it is both gambling or gambling like activity AND targeted at those under the age of 18. In the US at least, no one under 18 can legally gamble, buy a lottery ticket or lay a wager in a casino. Regardless of whether it is legal or not for adults to do so. That fact that it is targeting the under 18 crowd is the thing that is going to get SOE over this.
I personally informed the state lottery commissions and/or consumer protection bureaus for the 4 states surrounding the one I live in about what the SOE TCG is doing, how it is being run and marketed, and multiple websites selling the loot cards for hundreds of dollars, in some cases.
I have so far received 3 responses. One was a form letter type "thank you for bringing this to our attention" kind of mail, and I don't expect anything to come from that one. From the other two, however, I have received more than one follow up email asking me questions for clarification and have even received secondary emails from an investigator from one of these organizations. So, authorities ARE starting to look at this. Their initial feeling is that it probably constitutes a lottery or contest (especially the tournaments), and that they may be violating state gaming laws by doing so. Not my opinion, theirs.
Terrible comparison Scalebane. Blizzards card game actually gives your a phsyical card. It cannot be played inside the MMO and the cards cannot be sold for gold, traded as in game currency that can be purchased with real life currency.
I think Blizzard is walking a slippery slope by introducing in game items through their card game, but the are all 100% cosmetic and do not take away from any players chosen ingame profession. Furthermore you can see clearly what SOEs motives are and that is to turn their subscription based customers into additional revenue sources with real money transactions.
You can see it in EQ and EQ2 as they are starting to add xp potions, real tangible game effecting items and so forth. They are taking baby steps to see just how far they can push things as a trial run.
I hope all the data they are gathering is wrong, because they have perhaps the largest base of players who will accept whatever mistreatment a company can dish out and this blows up in their face when they launch the agency, free realms and dco.
However this is a very bad and dangerous precident being set. Lets not try to belittle it by saying how ineffective these items are and how harmless this practice is. We all know what this is building up to. People who are trying to downplay this are just not being honest about the potential effects this will have on the future of gaming.
I have to agree with this.
I believe they're easing people into it. By making these items only mildly effective now opens the door for people to become increasingly comfortable with paying for items - and therefore encouraging people to become more accepeting of items with greater effectiveness in the future.
I believe this because if it were me (and I had no scrupples) this is exactly how I would do it.
Terrible comparison Scalebane. Blizzards card game actually gives your a phsyical card. It cannot be played inside the MMO and the cards cannot be sold for gold, traded as in game currency that can be purchased with real life currency.
I think Blizzard is walking a slippery slope by introducing in game items through their card game, but the are all 100% cosmetic and do not take away from any players chosen ingame profession. Furthermore you can see clearly what SOEs motives are and that is to turn their subscription based customers into additional revenue sources with real money transactions.
You can see it in EQ and EQ2 as they are starting to add xp potions, real tangible game effecting items and so forth. They are taking baby steps to see just how far they can push things as a trial run.
I hope all the data they are gathering is wrong, because they have perhaps the largest base of players who will accept whatever mistreatment a company can dish out and this blows up in their face when they launch the agency, free realms and dco.
However this is a very bad and dangerous precident being set. Lets not try to belittle it by saying how ineffective these items are and how harmless this practice is. We all know what this is building up to. People who are trying to downplay this are just not being honest about the potential effects this will have on the future of gaming.
sure about that? i'm pretty sure i seen packs of their TCG on the local walmart card area...guess ill have to look at that again.
Are they really marketting it towards kids? i mean seriously how many kids actually play p2p mmo's, not very many from what i have seen, they are all in the f2p mmo games. Since they couldn't even buy this stuff without their parents then isn't it the responsibility of the parents to not let them have any TCG cards? I personally love TCG's i've played many of them, went to tournaments, seen very very few kids, if any at all and they weren't playing the card games...people say SWG doesn't have very many players right? so how are they selling the cards to kids then, how many kids are gonna be playing swg?
I don't really think this is about companies selling tcg cards is it, i think people are freaking out that the future of this genre is to pay for everything, who knows i don't...i go on the WoW forums and see people willing to shell out cash for everything, can't blame the company for going with it, it sucks and will probably drive me back to single player games but i doubt these TCG's will be shutdown.
Even if they do anything about them, they will just make them follow an age limit to buy them and parents will just buy the cards anyways.
All these TCG's have special cards people go crazy buying boxes/cases for should we shutdown all TCG's?
People tried to sue pokemon and say it was gambling, the case was thrown out of court from what i understand. (been trying to find out for sure what happened thought, but apparently it didn't go anywhere)
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas