If someone could make a mmorpg that would inspire the vast untapped masses of pvp gamers to pay $15 a month it would be the pvp game.
Who in gods name would pay to play a silly PvP game when there are so many FREE to play ALT + TAB games out now, not to mention the extra added bonus of Bot programs now built it.
Get with the times IT"S freee ee ee and made in China LMAO, free will cost ya 5 x the price of any 15$ a month to play. lalalalal. hehehehe
Who in gods name would pay to play a silly PvP game when there are so many FREE to play ALT + TAB games out now, not to mention the extra added bonus of Bot programs now built it. Get with the times IT"S freee ee ee and made in China LMAO, free will cost ya 5 x the price of any 15$ a month to play. lalalalal. hehehehe
Yes but they aren't playing free Chinese games they playing these games, there's almost 2 World of Warcrafts worth of players there based on minutes played, and thats just pc gamers from western world alone:
/flame suit on
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Multiplayer
8,358,289
Call of Duty 2 Multiplayer
5,431,011
Call of Duty: World at War Multiplayer
3,165,141
Counter-Strike: Source
2,310,857
Battlefield 2
1,513,498
Warcraft III - The Frozen Throne
1,205,437
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
911,883
If you could make even 25% (or 5% even) of these people cough up $15 a month by providing persistance to their game you would be on to a winner. People using Xbox to play some of these game are already paying so it's not as if non mmorpg people can't be made to pay. If I was designing a new mmorpg it would be a rpg / fps hybrid pvp game and on console.
Both would sell well tbh, but I would personally buy PvE only as I'm not really interested in PvP at all. If I want PvP gameplay I'd go play CoD or something.
That is the most retarded argument against pvp, and it gets thrown around so often by the carebear crowd.
Yes, I used the C word.
Perhaps you would care to enlighten me as to why that argument is 'retarded' as you so eloquently put it?
It's perfectly valid because most MMOs have retarded pvp - it's that simple.
I have seen exactly one MMO that has pvp that makes sense within an MMO context - Eve. And.. well.. it's a game I love but it's most definately *not* for everyone.
Most pvp'ers really are better off playing Counterstrike (the other C word), sadly.
Imo there are alot more players that enjoy Pve gameplay than Pvp.
Raids, questing, crafting/gathering people love this shit way more than Instanced pvp and world pvp.
Think players play a game like WoW for pvp?!? LOL! no way. the majority of wows playerbase is on a pve server. they love raiding ..... the majority of them anyway.
Imagine if wow had nothing but faction pvp, battlegrounds and world pvp objectives. the game would have about 2-3 million players world wide at the most.
Which is sad imo, the games I enjoy are ones that actually revolve around pvp, the pve in my games exist to let players farm cash or craft to pay for pvpers lost gear.
PvE is by far more popular in MMORPG's. I love PvP but not in my MMO's. FPS games have by far a higher quality of PvP than any MMORPG ever will have. Even fighting games are better PvP. Its a nightmare to truely get class balance in an mmo unlike the ease of geting guns balanced in FPS.
IMO PvP'ers are "a fish out of water" in an MMORPG. Like I said other genres gives sooooooooooo much beter PvP quality. MMO pvpers always complain about skill vs gear. well in a fps skill is what matters, gear doesnt. So in short when I have a PvP erge I throw in CoD4 or Socom confronttion, or PvE I boot up an MMORPG, or an old fashion JRPG.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think intial sales a pvp game would sell more boxes. I think a PVE game would have better stability and keep subscribers longer.
My only beef with with pve/pvp games is when my character is changed due to pvp balancing. I dont pvp and never will. Just not my cup of tea , but sure doesnt mean i feel that pvp shouldnt be in agame if its done fairly.
But back to the subject, i think pvp demands more from the game because of constant balancing of classes so as not to see a server full of 1 class or build.
Its hard to say. WoW suffers a bit because Blizzard mixes the two. Alot of people here say WoW is easy because they've never tried to level on a PVP server. Try doing the same quests and level at the same pace on a PVP server. All of a sudden WoW's not so easy anymore.
The best arguement for PVP-only is you can mail in the content. Create 4 or 5 simple PVP zones and the PVP kiddies will live in them, killing each other mindlessly for hours on end.
Designing quests, scripts and deep content for PVE costs alot more money and requires alot more development time.
O look Im playing the same person in a new arena.... o boy.
PvE can have some diversity. I think PvP is locked with basicly new skins battle areas. PvE can create a epic story.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Its hard to say. WoW suffers a bit because Blizzard mixes the two. Alot of people here say WoW is easy because they've never tried to level on a PVP server. Try doing the same quests and level at the same pace on a PVP server. All of a sudden WoW's not so easy anymore. The best arguement for PVP-only is you can mail in the content. Create 4 or 5 simple PVP zones and the PVP kiddies will live in them, killing each other mindlessly for hours on end. Designing quests, scripts and deep content for PVE costs alot more money and requires alot more development time.
I don't know. That may have been true pre-BC, but BC kinda killed world PVP. You can get ganked now and ten, but nothing to really slow you down. Every time some annoying rogue shows up trying to gank lowbies another better rogue comes by and kills him for you. Or an unkillable resto drood would annoy him so much that they would give up.
Either way, wow is mostly PVE and catersw more to that crowd, and look at the numbers. I think your answer is right there.
Why don't PvEers just go play Left 4 Dead, or Fable 2 Co-op?
I have no problem with people wanting to PvE 100% of the time, but I do lash out when I see them come out in force to stop pvp elements of a game from happening just because they want devs to work on even more content for them, even though the last 100 patches have been PvE. I see it in every mmo, and it get's old fast.
No offense OP ...but Monster Hunter 2 was released on the PS2 for the US within its first 2 years and it was an online game. Honestly I beta tested it and didn't see the appeal I don't even think typical PvE MMO players will enjoy it.
In this market right now the only thing thats going to sell big right now is a game that can match WoW in the amount of activities it offers (not necessarily the style or dumbdownness)...that could be a PVP or a PVE game to be honest though its most likely going to be a pure PVE game. Pure PVP games have always been an extremely niche market.
The minority for me, pure PvP. AI is unsatisfying; I want real opponents to work with and against. Thus I stick with EVE.
MMOs should focus on different skills since the 'massively' part means individual skill can be overcome with numbers. Take EVE for instance. While there is a need for older pilots who can fly capital ships, it still requires more skill in planning and fleet commanding than individual pilot execution, like a real war. Individuals can make a minor difference here and there, mainly a morale boost, but in the end it comes down to a well organized group with a great plan.
That is what I'd like to see PvP in MMOs focus on; not trying to emulate FPS combat but also with levels and gear disparity.
But I know everyone else wants to be hero #10,000,000 in a world that is so f'd up it needs ten million heroes.
If I were investing in an mmorpg, I would make its focus PVE first, since numbers and sales show that PVE games do far better and hit a larger crowd. Obviously, the best type to have is the mixed games,pve/pvp in one, like WoW, LOTRO, EQ2, etc. If WAR and AOC would develop there current PVE as much as their PVP, they might actually start pulling people in.
Personally, I only dabble in PVP in my mmorpgs, I prefer the pve side of the games. Many reasons that I don't feel like expounding on here, as that is another topic unto itself.
i voted PVE because i think a pure PVE mmo would be easier to start as compared to a pure PVP one. since most likely, an mmo will start with a small amount of players, then it would really be hard to keep them playing if it is a pure PVP one. in a pure PVE mmo, there would already be a great range of enemies to start with.
The only successful mmos we have ever had that were designed around PvP were UO nearly 10 years ago and EVE so obviously we need more of them. The mmo market is saturated with PvE games.
People constantly say that PvP games dont work and yet every game that they refer to is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought. None of them were designed so that the players would fight against each other so of course their PvP aspects would fail. Does that mean that an mmo designed for it will fail? Obviously it doesnt.
I wish people would stop whining about ganking. This only happens in level based themepark games. In those games the person with the highest number over their head wins so of course you're gonna get ganked. Its an idiotic reason to be against PvP.
WAR is an epic failure but it is also a prime example of what happens when you "say" you are releasing a PvP game but actually release a level-based PvE game with PvP playpens attached (aka copying WoW).
I fail to see the point in releasing more PvE games just so that thousands of players can go online to play a giant single player game in massive co-op mode. I want realism and variety and dont see any point in restricting that. Thousands of players having the same experience, doing the same PvE quests and the same computer scripted encounters?
If a decent PvP game (apart from EvE) came along then all the naysayers would quickly realise that they were full of shit and would find it very hard to go back to the old fashioned boring single player mmos where everything is static and brainless.
We have had loads of PvE games that have failed and yet we keep seeing more of them and yet everyone seems to think that PvP games will fail. Well.......how about actually SEEING some fail then. The only other PvP mmo that I can think of which failed was Shadowbane. So thats 1 PvP mmo failure. Its an absolute joke that in 10 years only 3 noticeable PvP mmos have been released!
Thankfully there are some promising PvP games on the way such as Darkfall, Earthrise, Fallen Earth and Crusades. Finally I might be able to log onto an mmo and actually interact with people properly for once.
Pure PvP isn't as popular a ruleset as pure PvE. Most games try to provide both, so that they can get the large PvE crowd and at least some of the much smaller PvP crowd. The PvP crowd is vocal on the internet, but greatly outnumbered in the playing community by PvE players, really.
Take a look at the list to the left. Now say this to yourself, I wonder how many have somesort of Cheat code for them all. Now also while in the thought mode, You may say this as well, Never will there be another Online game AGAIN EVER in your or my life time that will be fun to play, Why, Because Online games have become a Solo place to play agains others, The best Scripters, Hackers, Cheats, liers, and of course the ones that just do not give a hoot about anything at all except to make others notice they do not care and leave or just ALT + TAB to another MMO. Free i might add =The best of the best in Crime.
FFXI has no pvp that is worth mentioning, Ballista limits you to like 1-2matches a day, and its rarely done now days. In my server there are usually not enough players to get it going anymore to a good game.
However FFXI has over 1 million accounts made on its game, and over 100,000 active ones. So..Its doing quite well for itself as a pure PvE game.
I would NEVER subscribe to a pure PvP game, I would BUY a pure pvp game as a one time buy like I did with Call of duty 4. I would play Free 2 play pure PvP games like Exteel. I would NEVER waste my money just to PvP in a game every single month.
I would subscribe to a pure PvE game, And I would buy a pure PvE game.
PVE, because in most cases a PVP'er can handle a PVE game (with some amount of grumbling), but a PVE'er has a much tougher time accepting the ganking in a PVP world.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.
Comments
Who in gods name would pay to play a silly PvP game when there are so many FREE to play ALT + TAB games out now, not to mention the extra added bonus of Bot programs now built it.
Get with the times IT"S freee ee ee and made in China LMAO, free will cost ya 5 x the price of any 15$ a month to play. lalalalal. hehehehe
Yes but they aren't playing free Chinese games they playing these games, there's almost 2 World of Warcrafts worth of players there based on minutes played, and thats just pc gamers from western world alone:
/flame suit on
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare Multiplayer
8,358,289
Call of Duty 2 Multiplayer
5,431,011
Call of Duty: World at War Multiplayer
3,165,141
Counter-Strike: Source
2,310,857
Battlefield 2
1,513,498
Warcraft III - The Frozen Throne
1,205,437
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
911,883
If you could make even 25% (or 5% even) of these people cough up $15 a month by providing persistance to their game you would be on to a winner. People using Xbox to play some of these game are already paying so it's not as if non mmorpg people can't be made to pay. If I was designing a new mmorpg it would be a rpg / fps hybrid pvp game and on console.
That is the most retarded argument against pvp, and it gets thrown around so often by the carebear crowd.
Yes, I used the C word.
Perhaps you would care to enlighten me as to why that argument is 'retarded' as you so eloquently put it?
It's perfectly valid because most MMOs have retarded pvp - it's that simple.
Die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn, die, respawn. Collect gear. Rinse. Repeat.
I have seen exactly one MMO that has pvp that makes sense within an MMO context - Eve. And.. well.. it's a game I love but it's most definately *not* for everyone.
Most pvp'ers really are better off playing Counterstrike (the other C word), sadly.
Imo there are alot more players that enjoy Pve gameplay than Pvp.
Raids, questing, crafting/gathering people love this shit way more than Instanced pvp and world pvp.
Think players play a game like WoW for pvp?!? LOL! no way. the majority of wows playerbase is on a pve server. they love raiding ..... the majority of them anyway.
Imagine if wow had nothing but faction pvp, battlegrounds and world pvp objectives. the game would have about 2-3 million players world wide at the most.
Which is sad imo, the games I enjoy are ones that actually revolve around pvp, the pve in my games exist to let players farm cash or craft to pay for pvpers lost gear.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
PvE is by far more popular in MMORPG's. I love PvP but not in my MMO's. FPS games have by far a higher quality of PvP than any MMORPG ever will have. Even fighting games are better PvP. Its a nightmare to truely get class balance in an mmo unlike the ease of geting guns balanced in FPS.
IMO PvP'ers are "a fish out of water" in an MMORPG. Like I said other genres gives sooooooooooo much beter PvP quality. MMO pvpers always complain about skill vs gear. well in a fps skill is what matters, gear doesnt. So in short when I have a PvP erge I throw in CoD4 or Socom confronttion, or PvE I boot up an MMORPG, or an old fashion JRPG.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think intial sales a pvp game would sell more boxes. I think a PVE game would have better stability and keep subscribers longer.
My only beef with with pve/pvp games is when my character is changed due to pvp balancing. I dont pvp and never will. Just not my cup of tea , but sure doesnt mean i feel that pvp shouldnt be in agame if its done fairly.
But back to the subject, i think pvp demands more from the game because of constant balancing of classes so as not to see a server full of 1 class or build.
Its hard to say. WoW suffers a bit because Blizzard mixes the two. Alot of people here say WoW is easy because they've never tried to level on a PVP server. Try doing the same quests and level at the same pace on a PVP server. All of a sudden WoW's not so easy anymore.
The best arguement for PVP-only is you can mail in the content. Create 4 or 5 simple PVP zones and the PVP kiddies will live in them, killing each other mindlessly for hours on end.
Designing quests, scripts and deep content for PVE costs alot more money and requires alot more development time.
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O look Im playing the same person in a new arena.... o boy.
PvE can have some diversity. I think PvP is locked with basicly new skins battle areas. PvE can create a epic story.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I don't know. That may have been true pre-BC, but BC kinda killed world PVP. You can get ganked now and ten, but nothing to really slow you down. Every time some annoying rogue shows up trying to gank lowbies another better rogue comes by and kills him for you. Or an unkillable resto drood would annoy him so much that they would give up.
Either way, wow is mostly PVE and catersw more to that crowd, and look at the numbers. I think your answer is right there.
Why should pvpers "Just go play Counter-Strike"?
Why don't PvEers just go play Left 4 Dead, or Fable 2 Co-op?
I have no problem with people wanting to PvE 100% of the time, but I do lash out when I see them come out in force to stop pvp elements of a game from happening just because they want devs to work on even more content for them, even though the last 100 patches have been PvE. I see it in every mmo, and it get's old fast.
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No offense OP ...but Monster Hunter 2 was released on the PS2 for the US within its first 2 years and it was an online game. Honestly I beta tested it and didn't see the appeal I don't even think typical PvE MMO players will enjoy it.
In this market right now the only thing thats going to sell big right now is a game that can match WoW in the amount of activities it offers (not necessarily the style or dumbdownness)...that could be a PVP or a PVE game to be honest though its most likely going to be a pure PVE game. Pure PVP games have always been an extremely niche market.
The minority for me, pure PvP. AI is unsatisfying; I want real opponents to work with and against. Thus I stick with EVE.
MMOs should focus on different skills since the 'massively' part means individual skill can be overcome with numbers. Take EVE for instance. While there is a need for older pilots who can fly capital ships, it still requires more skill in planning and fleet commanding than individual pilot execution, like a real war. Individuals can make a minor difference here and there, mainly a morale boost, but in the end it comes down to a well organized group with a great plan.
That is what I'd like to see PvP in MMOs focus on; not trying to emulate FPS combat but also with levels and gear disparity.
But I know everyone else wants to be hero #10,000,000 in a world that is so f'd up it needs ten million heroes.
Currently MMOs have more PvE players than PvP players and therefore a PvE only game would probably sell better.
On the other hand FPS have a lot of players so a mix between a FPS and a MMO could become really big also.
Both could sell very well, but I still would guess on PvE.
pure pve, but forme personally i would like a mix between pve&pvp
Pure PvP would get more box sales.
Pure PvE would retain more subsciptions.
If I were investing in an mmorpg, I would make its focus PVE first, since numbers and sales show that PVE games do far better and hit a larger crowd. Obviously, the best type to have is the mixed games,pve/pvp in one, like WoW, LOTRO, EQ2, etc. If WAR and AOC would develop there current PVE as much as their PVP, they might actually start pulling people in.
Personally, I only dabble in PVP in my mmorpgs, I prefer the pve side of the games. Many reasons that I don't feel like expounding on here, as that is another topic unto itself.
world of warcraft has shown what a pure PVE game will do. The matter is settled.
A really good game would sell extremely well, regardless of whether it is pure PVE or pure PVP.
i voted PVE because i think a pure PVE mmo would be easier to start as compared to a pure PVP one. since most likely, an mmo will start with a small amount of players, then it would really be hard to keep them playing if it is a pure PVP one. in a pure PVE mmo, there would already be a great range of enemies to start with.
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The only successful mmos we have ever had that were designed around PvP were UO nearly 10 years ago and EVE so obviously we need more of them. The mmo market is saturated with PvE games.
People constantly say that PvP games dont work and yet every game that they refer to is a PvE game with PvP added as an after thought. None of them were designed so that the players would fight against each other so of course their PvP aspects would fail. Does that mean that an mmo designed for it will fail? Obviously it doesnt.
I wish people would stop whining about ganking. This only happens in level based themepark games. In those games the person with the highest number over their head wins so of course you're gonna get ganked. Its an idiotic reason to be against PvP.
WAR is an epic failure but it is also a prime example of what happens when you "say" you are releasing a PvP game but actually release a level-based PvE game with PvP playpens attached (aka copying WoW).
I fail to see the point in releasing more PvE games just so that thousands of players can go online to play a giant single player game in massive co-op mode. I want realism and variety and dont see any point in restricting that. Thousands of players having the same experience, doing the same PvE quests and the same computer scripted encounters?
If a decent PvP game (apart from EvE) came along then all the naysayers would quickly realise that they were full of shit and would find it very hard to go back to the old fashioned boring single player mmos where everything is static and brainless.
We have had loads of PvE games that have failed and yet we keep seeing more of them and yet everyone seems to think that PvP games will fail. Well.......how about actually SEEING some fail then. The only other PvP mmo that I can think of which failed was Shadowbane. So thats 1 PvP mmo failure. Its an absolute joke that in 10 years only 3 noticeable PvP mmos have been released!
Thankfully there are some promising PvP games on the way such as Darkfall, Earthrise, Fallen Earth and Crusades. Finally I might be able to log onto an mmo and actually interact with people properly for once.
Pure PvP isn't as popular a ruleset as pure PvE. Most games try to provide both, so that they can get the large PvE crowd and at least some of the much smaller PvP crowd. The PvP crowd is vocal on the internet, but greatly outnumbered in the playing community by PvE players, really.
Take a look at the list to the left. Now say this to yourself, I wonder how many have somesort of Cheat code for them all. Now also while in the thought mode, You may say this as well, Never will there be another Online game AGAIN EVER in your or my life time that will be fun to play, Why, Because Online games have become a Solo place to play agains others, The best Scripters, Hackers, Cheats, liers, and of course the ones that just do not give a hoot about anything at all except to make others notice they do not care and leave or just ALT + TAB to another MMO. Free i might add =The best of the best in Crime.
FFXI has no pvp that is worth mentioning, Ballista limits you to like 1-2matches a day, and its rarely done now days. In my server there are usually not enough players to get it going anymore to a good game.
However FFXI has over 1 million accounts made on its game, and over 100,000 active ones. So..Its doing quite well for itself as a pure PvE game.
I would NEVER subscribe to a pure PvP game, I would BUY a pure pvp game as a one time buy like I did with Call of duty 4. I would play Free 2 play pure PvP games like Exteel. I would NEVER waste my money just to PvP in a game every single month.
I would subscribe to a pure PvE game, And I would buy a pure PvE game.
I will never understand the level of cowardice and fear of PVP you see from PVEers, especially when these people spend up to 4 hours a night repeatedly being rolled by AI-controlled scripted bosses for tiny incremental improvements in gear, yet they scream and whine when killed a couple of times by an actual player that doesn't have super boss powers.
doesn't make any sense to me.
I think that the reason is fairly obvious: in PvE everyone wins (eventually), while PvP has winners and losers. People don't like to lose. The number of PvEers who do the challenging endgame raids is small for the same reason: people don't like to die. This is why PvE is more popular than PvP, and why games will continue to have dumbed down PvE outside of endgame raids -- because the vast majority of people do not like to raid or do PvP, but want PvE content that they can "casually" play through and not die.