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I changed the feature list in Darkfall. Would you still play?
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Well, we are dividing the reality fo what your character does, and what you do. That's pretty much the essense of a Roleplaying Game.
YOU the person, can't really swing a sword and kill dragons, but your Character can.
We are doing the same thing here. You the person did not click your mouse swinging your sword a billion times to get better at sword swinging. Your character, however, went to sword training camp, and got much better at sword swining.l
We dont' make YOU the real life person actually go to sword training camp. We make YOU the real life person, decide to send the character to sword training camp. Or Archery school, or Kung FU, or Wizardry school, or whatever. YOU the real life person do that by spending a skill point.
Your CHARACTER then spent the time training, and now he's ready to use his new skills.
It would work, quite simply, like this:
You spend a skill point in Archery. Zobogo goes off to learn Archery from the greatest Archer in the land. 3 months later he returns, now a master of the bow. (you just read the sentence, it doesn't actually take 3 months of real time).
Ta da, Role Playing.
Wow sorry to confuse you but I never meant YOU the player I mean YOU the character...
Yes, YOU the character did use his sword to get better at sword fighting. YOU the real life person, did not. In other words, YOU the real life person did not have to click the mouse to swing the sword.
YOU the character, did swing his sword a million times to get better. We just dont' make YOU the real life person watch it.
Just like when you play a paper and pencil game, and the Game Master says, You travel for two weeks, nothing happens. Your Character was bored for two weeks, not YOU the real life person.
So the answer is, your character DID train in magic , which is why it increases.
Do you think you must do everything your character must do, for it to make sense?
No
Because study is often as important as real expirience.
So while you were fighting with that sword you were reading about using spells??
Nice try but not even close to a good argument...
Read my statement above. Young wizards quite often rely on daggers and staves, why not swords?
Don't get insulting here, I am not insulting you, I am just trying to demonstrate a point, maybe you should think a bit more about what you are saying.
Exactly and giving them experience when they use that sword or dagger or whatever is ok, but allowing them to build xp in magic while killing with a sword is kinda odd...
There is no reason you could not make a game like this but I would not be interested in it....
Because study is often as important as real expirience.
So while you were fighting with that sword you were reading about using spells??
Nice try but not even close to a good argument...
Umm...No.
Your character goes to train. He takes a break from adventuring, and goes to train in his new skill.
It may take a day, a month, a year. But we dont' make you the real person sit through it, we just say it happened, and then continue on with the game.
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
So, would you call Asheron's Call a level based game?
Yeah, which is one of the reasons I quit playing. They kept raising the level cap. Last I knew is was 125, but it could have gone much higher by now.
I don't believe you played Asheron's Call.
Levels were just a number... basically showing you how much XP you earned. All skills/stats everything was raised manually. They didn't "keep raising the level cap". They raised it once. In 2005. And the levels were just a number as in, when your level hit 126, you kept earning xp. But at 275, you stopped.
Point: A level based game has nothing to do with levels, but auto raising skills and restrictions based on where you can travel due to your level. Not Skill.
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What's to say that you didn't spend your off time studying magic? The skill costs for magic would mean that you wouldn't advance much in your swordsmanship if you were spending your points on magic, so eventually you would just ditch the sword altogether, but wouldn't a fledgling wizard have to depend on something else anyways until they learned powerful enough spells?
Your option is viable for a game that you would make, but I would not accept it as a replacement for skill based game mechanics...
As for you bieng attacked telling you your argument is not valid is not an attack!
My argument is valid, just not for the game You want to play. That's the only issue here. I am explaining how it could make sense, while you continually go 'No, that makes no sense!'. It does make sense, it's just that you don't like it. I also didn't say 'attacked' I said 'insulting' you telling me that my perfectly logical assessment is invalid is insulting to me. Now to say that you wouldn't like a game with this set up is completely up to your opinion and I'd not argue that for a moment.
My reasoning behind the skill based progression system that allows free use of skill points is still valid.
What's to say that you didn't spend your off time studying magic? The skill costs for magic would mean that you wouldn't advance much in your swordsmanship if you were spending your points on magic, so eventually you would just ditch the sword altogether, but wouldn't a fledgling wizard have to depend on something else anyways until they learned powerful enough spells?
Your option is viable for a game that you would make, but I would not accept it as a replacement for skill based game mechanics...
As for you bieng attacked telling you your argument is not valid is not an attack!
My argument is valid, just not for the game You want to play. That's the only issue here. I am explaining how it could make sense, while you continually go 'No, that makes no sense!'. It does make sense, it's just that you don't like it. I also didn't say 'attacked' I said 'insulting' you telling me that my perfectly logical assessment is invalid is insulting to me. Now to say that you wouldn't like a game with this set up is completely up to your opinion and I'd not argue that for a moment.
My reasoning behind the skill based progression system that allows free use of skill points is still valid.
Yes but valid only to you, like my opinion is valid only to me...
Because study is often as important as real expirience.
So while you were fighting with that sword you were reading about using spells??
Nice try but not even close to a good argument...
Read my statement above. Young wizards quite often rely on daggers and staves, why not swords?
Don't get insulting here, I am not insulting you, I am just trying to demonstrate a point, maybe you should think a bit more about what you are saying.
Exactly and giving them experience when they use that sword or dagger or whatever is ok, but allowing them to build xp in magic while killing with a sword is kinda odd...
There is no reason you could not make a game like this but I would not be interested in it....
They aren't getting xp in magic. They are just getting xp, in other words experience and money.
They then take a break from delving into dungeons, and spend the money on a trainer to learn a new skill, or get better at one.
The experience is general experience in combat, dealing with monsters, NPC's, etc.
The actual training, the actual casting the spell a million times, or swinging a sword a million time, happens while you are NOT playing the character.
Is that really so difficult or confusing?
Because study is often as important as real expirience.
So while you were fighting with that sword you were reading about using spells??
Nice try but not even close to a good argument...
Read my statement above. Young wizards quite often rely on daggers and staves, why not swords?
Don't get insulting here, I am not insulting you, I am just trying to demonstrate a point, maybe you should think a bit more about what you are saying.
Exactly and giving them experience when they use that sword or dagger or whatever is ok, but allowing them to build xp in magic while killing with a sword is kinda odd...
There is no reason you could not make a game like this but I would not be interested in it....
They aren't getting xp in magic. They are just getting xp, in other words experience and money.
They then take a break from delving into dungeons, and spend the money on a trainer to learn a new skill, or get better at one.
The experience is general experience in combat, dealing with monsters, NPC's, etc.
The actual training, the actual casting the spell a million times, or swinging a sword a million time, happens while you are NOT playing the character.
Is that really so difficult or confusing?
It was an example replace magic with whatever skill you would like ....
Based on your description of what you do during your play time why don't you just not play any game and save some money, instead you can sit there and imagine yourself going on crazy adventures.
This is a game, I want to see my character advancing based on what I am actually doing, no imagination needed. I ain't paying $15 a month if I have to use my imagination to fill in what is actually happening. I thought the idea of paying for entertainment was that the person you are paying is providing the entertainment, not that you have to invent it yourself.
What? You say there were levels, but it wasn't a level based game, and don't believe I've played it? That's insane. You can quibble over semantics all you like, but if the game has levels, it's level based. You also got 'skill points' that you could spend on buying new skills every few levels, so the levels were more than just a measurement of how much expirience you had. And I have no idea what your whole thing about level restrictions based on where you can go comes from. I think you have played too much WoW.
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
So, would you call Asheron's Call a level based game?
Yeah, which is one of the reasons I quit playing. They kept raising the level cap. Last I knew is was 125, but it could have gone much higher by now.
I don't believe you played Asheron's Call.
Levels were just a number... basically showing you how much XP you earned. All skills/stats everything was raised manually. They didn't "keep raising the level cap". They raised it once. In 2005. And the levels were just a number as in, when your level hit 126, you kept earning xp. But at 275, you stopped.
Point: A level based game has nothing to do with levels, but auto raising skills and restrictions based on where you can travel due to your level. Not Skill.
What? You say there were levels, but it wasn't a level based game, and don't belive I've played it? That's insane. You can quible over semantics all you like, but if the game has levels, it's level based. You also got 'skill points' that you could spend on buying new skills every few levels, so the levels were more than just a measurement of how much expirience you had. And I have no idea what your whole thing about level restrictions based on where you can go comes from. I think you have played too much WoW.
LOL dont feel bad I didnt really understand that one either...
Sorry, but we both know that is not a valid criticism. The game mechanics in Darkfall already work that way.
How do you get new skills?
you buy them. That's right, you want to learn to bake pies? you BUY the pie baking skill, then you bake over and over to get good at it. You want to learn the Bow skill? YOU BUY the bow skill, then shoot the bow over and over to get good at it.
Now justify that. You can't. You have to use your imaginiation. How on earth can you BUY a skill? What's going on there?
Why are you willing to use your imagination in this example, not not in another?
This might make more sense.
I think some people are just, OMG! He's trying to change Darkfall! Heresy! Heresy!
Ok, I get it.
Let's say it's NOT Darkfall, and Darkfall never releases.
This game has EVERY feature fo Darkfall, EXCEPT you get to spend skill points on skills. WOuld you play it?
I'm not using my imagination, I go to a "npc" I pay some ingame currency and it's changes baking 0 to baking 1 in the character database. Why would I need to imagine that? Thats my interpretation of what is happening and that is what is actually happening. I don't sit there pretending that I am my character anymore than I would imagine that I am bat in pong.
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
So, would you call Asheron's Call a level based game?
Yeah, which is one of the reasons I quit playing. They kept raising the level cap. Last I knew is was 125, but it could have gone much higher by now.
I don't believe you played Asheron's Call.
Levels were just a number... basically showing you how much XP you earned. All skills/stats everything was raised manually. They didn't "keep raising the level cap". They raised it once. In 2005. And the levels were just a number as in, when your level hit 126, you kept earning xp. But at 275, you stopped.
Point: A level based game has nothing to do with levels, but auto raising skills and restrictions based on where you can travel due to your level. Not Skill.
What? You say there were levels, but it wasn't a level based game, and don't believe I've played it? That's insane. You can quibble over semantics all you like, but if the game has levels, it's level based. You also got 'skill points' that you could spend on buying new skills every few levels, so the levels were more than just a measurement of how much expirience you had. And I have no idea what your whole thing about level restrictions based on where you can go comes from. I think you have played too much WoW.
And how did you reach this conclusion?
Darkfall NO level number but the SKILLS will still be leveled. So, I guess darkfall will be a level based game. Right?
You fail at all of your assumptions, although, you are right, you did get skill points at certain levels. Dark fall just won't have those "milestones" but instead you'll START with all of the skills. Now, tell me how Darkfall is SOOOOO much different that Asheron's Call.
I'll wait. and get popcorn.
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I'm not using my imagination, I go to a "npc" I pay some ingame currency and it's changes baking 0 to baking 1 in the character database. Why would I need to imagine that? Thats my interpretation of what is happening and that is what is actually happening. I don't sit there pretending that I am my character anymore than I would imagine that I am bat in pong.
LOL.
How is that different from you spent a skill point, changed your magic skill from 0 to 1?
Got an answer for that?
to feel entertained and fill in entertainment in case you miss it is up to you on the other hand :P
But i agree fully to your point no one should invite you to a party and then say "but you have to imagine the hot chicks yourself" :P
Train sword with a shield should get you + sword xp + buckler xp or +1 handed xp + shield xp
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
No, I wouldn't play it because I have a feeling that open PvP and full looting is going to be the death of any game it's in. Call me a carebear if you like, but I feel that PvP should be an option, not a feature. A lot of the kids that play MMOs now take too much pleasure from harassing people for no reason. They haven't learned that there are consequences for their actions because every year the government seems to take more and more of a parent's ability to punish their children away. Leaving behind a generation of spoiled, self centered brats.
to feel entertained and fill in entertainment in case you miss it is up to you on the other hand :P
But i agree fully to your point no one should invite you to a party and then say "but you have to imagine the hot chicks yourself" :P
Train sword should get you sword xp or 1 handed xp
The hot chicks are there.
The game is adventuring with your friends, not swinging your sword over and over so your sword skill goes up.
Someone already stated you can just get a friend, hit him, he hits you, and you do that till you max out in sword swinging.
How is that the "hot chick"?
I'm saying, I don't need to get a friend, and hit him, while he hits me, to max out skills. I can skip that part, and just spend a skill point.
You're saying, but hey, hitting my friend over and over, and him hitting me over and over to max out a skill is the best part of teh game! Why would I want to skip that?
But you have the chance to teach them the meaning of "consequences" yourself ? isn't that an fantastic option ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
But you have the chance to teach them the meaning of "consequences" yourself ? isn't that an fantastic option ?
Online games don't work this way. This is why "Bounty Hunting" is a feature players ask for, but never works.
After you gank someone you log off and play again tomorrow, or next week.
But you have the chance to teach them the meaning of "consequences" yourself ? isn't that an fantastic option ?
Eh, no, that actually sounds like work...lol
How can a person that fights with a sword gain the magic skill?
you tell me, because that's teh way Darkfall works.
You fight with a sword, get money, and then you BUY the magic skill. That's Darkfall right now.
How does that work? Why is that so different from spending skill points to increase your magic skill?
Somehow BUYING a magic skill makes sense, but spending a skill point on a magic skill doesn't?
How?
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
thats y its no good cause a level 30 could be a BETTER fighter DEPENDING on how he spent his skills.
So really he isnt better/more skilled he just made wiser decisions.
Example of how this system would make skill meaningless and favor the person who spends more time playing.
Lets say the level 30 guy uses swords all the time and he decided to put every skill point that he could into swords and its like 90 or something, then comes the lvl 50 guy who alos uses swords all the time and decides to put every skill point that he gets into swords so his sword skill is 150, now if they fight eachother with the exact same sword and the exact same equipment and theres no technical issues then the 50 guy wins.
I dnt like