Home › Game Forums › Darkfall
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I changed the feature list in Darkfall. Would you still play?
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
LOL.
How is that different from you spent a skill point, changed your magic skill from 0 to 1?
Got an answer for that?
Because I want my 1's to be added in very small increments (ie indivdually) whilst engaging in an activity that is directly related to what they are being added to, I want everyone else who is playing to have to go through this process as well. I do not want grind "xp" and be given a whole load of 1's at predetermind intervals. There are too many games with xp, I do not want to play another.
Thats not really fair either, just because a game has a ruleset or feature set you dont like does not make it doomed for failure.
I may not want to play a game using the skill based XP you guys described but that does not mean that somebody else wouldnt like it...
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
thats y its no good cause a level 30 could be a BETTER fighter DEPENDING on how he spent his skills.
So really he isnt better/more skilled he just made wiser decisions.
Example of how this system would make skill meaningless and favor the person who spends more time playing.
Lets say the level 30 guy uses swords all the time and he decided to put every skill point that he could into swords and its like 90 or something, then comes the lvl 50 guy who alos uses swords all the time and decides to put every skill point that he gets into swords so his sword skill is 150, now if they fight eachother with the exact same sword and the exact same equipment and theres no technical issues then the 50 guy wins.
I dnt like
But that's the same right now. A person who spend 50 hours playing with the sword will have a higher skill in swords than the one playing for 30 hours. Will he automatically win? I doubt it, but he will have an advantage. How serious? No one knows.
No different from the other option.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
thats y its no good cause a level 30 could be a BETTER fighter DEPENDING on how he spent his skills.
So really he isnt better/more skilled he just made wiser decisions.
Example of how this system would make skill meaningless and favor the person who spends more time playing.
Lets say the level 30 guy uses swords all the time and he decided to put every skill point that he could into swords and its like 90 or something, then comes the lvl 50 guy who alos uses swords all the time and decides to put every skill point that he gets into swords so his sword skill is 150, now if they fight eachother with the exact same sword and the exact same equipment and theres no technical issues then the 50 guy wins.
I dnt like
But you are going to get that in the current system anyway. If that level 50 has played more time than you, then he has more skill points than you, thus he has an advantage. Otherwise it's not an RPG it's an FPS. I like FPSs, don't get me wrong, but without a system of advancement of some sort you just have an FPS with swords and magic.
LOL.
How is that different from you spent a skill point, changed your magic skill from 0 to 1?
Got an answer for that?
Because I want my 1's to be added in very small increments (ie indivdually) whilst engaging in a activity that is directly related to what they are being added to, I want everyone else who is playing to have to go through this process as well. I do not want grind "xp" and be given a whole load of 1's at predetermind intervals. There are too many games with xp, I do not want to play another.
You didn't answer the question.
You stated, it's not believable that some guy uses his sword, then gets good at magic. The system I outlined is that he earns a skill point, and then spends the skill point on a magic spell.
However, in the Darkfall System, you BUY a skill. You want to get good at Archery? You BUY the archery skill.
How is this believable, but spending a skill point is not?
Could you go out today and BUY a skill? You give somebody money, and you are instantly better at something?
What's happening here? They are training you right? You give them the money and the teach you the skill. But you don't really see this happen.
I'm saying the exact same thing. You spend a skill point, and someone teaches you the skill, but you don't actually see it.
But you keep saying one is ok, and the other is not. Why?
Thats not rally fair either, just because a game has a ruleset or feature set you dont like does not make it doomed for failure.
I may not want to play a game using the skill based XP you guys described but that does not mean that somebody else wouldnt like it...
That's why I said I have a feeling that it will be that way. The truth may be different and they may have a good system in the works to deal with that issue. That's what time will tell. I'm not saying the game is doomed at all. I am just saying that I probably wont like it.
But you have the chance to teach them the meaning of "consequences" yourself ? isn't that an fantastic option ?
Eh, no, that actually sounds like work...lol
I know it seems like it's work but thats not really the idea behind it.
The idea is that you are going to fight, craft, use magic during your adventures. The more you adventure the higher your USED skills will become allowing you bigger and better adbventures. (all skills mentioned are only examples)
Grinding is always a choice....I have always chose agaisnt doing it and I play the way I want to.
I have always found grinding to be the playstyle of so called PowerGamers.
Just my opinion...
I did answer the question, I said I wanted the point to be added to a skill that is directly related to the activity. If you are using a sword you are getting 1 handed sword points. It has nothing to do with believable or unbelieve, it is my prefered game mechanic that is all.
Thats not rally fair either, just because a game has a ruleset or feature set you dont like does not make it doomed for failure.
I may not want to play a game using the skill based XP you guys described but that does not mean that somebody else wouldnt like it...
That's why I said I have a feeling that it will be that way. The truth may be different and they may have a good system in the works to deal with that issue. That's what time will tell. I'm not saying the game is doomed at all. I am just saying that I probably wont like it.
Fair enough...
First i wouldent play DF if they got xp and shit.
Secondly: You BUY the sword as well. Then you learn the skill. Same with Magic. You buy the skill then train it.
I read your last post.. you aren't even worth replying to anymore..
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
But you have the chance to teach them the meaning of "consequences" yourself ? isn't that an fantastic option ?
Eh, no, that actually sounds like work...lol
I know it seems like it's work but thats not really the idea behind it.
The idea is that you are going to fight, craft, use magic during your adventures. The more you adventure the higher your USED skills will become allowing you bigger and better adbventures. (all skills mentioned are only examples)
Grinding is always a choice....I have always chose agaisnt doing it and I play the way I want to.
I have always found grinding to be the playstyle of so called PowerGamers.
Just my opinion...
The gameplay sounds great, it's just that I don't have as much time to play as many gamers do, so I will likely be less skilled, so they are just going to kill me. There's not a lot I can do about teaching them anything if they have no fear, or respect for me. Now in an FPS I can 'pwn some noobs' but that's because the amount of time I play isn't an issue, just my skill. I don't want MMOs to be like that, because I like adventuring and exploring in MMOs, I just don't get into MMO PvP.
Never mind.. I'm wasting my time talking to you..
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
First i wouldent play DF if they got xp and shit.
Secondly: You BUY the sword as well. Then you learn the skill. Same with Magic. You buy the skill then train it.
That doesn't make much sense.
I can buy a sword right now, in real life. I can log on to swords.com and buy a sword.
I can't buy the Kung Fu skill. I can't buy the archery skill. I can't just go to a store, and say, here's 100 bucks, now press a button and I know how to shoot a bow.
How is that the same as buying a sword? That's what happens in Darkfall. Here's 100 gold pieces, now I know how to shoot a bow, but before I didn't.
I still don't see how buying a skill with money, is so vastly different than buying a skill with skill points.
What if I turned the skill points into gold pieces? Would that be better? If not, why not? What's the difference?
I've played Dungeon Siege, and it's not bad. I'm not totally against skills that increase with use. But honeslty those that are arguing that spending skill points to raise a skill is "unrealistic" but somehow buying a skill in Darkfall is realistic, seem kinda dense.
It's different because when you use money you are getting a skill level of 1 or maybe even 0, you will not be proficient at it. It is merely signalling your intent to use it to the game engine. To get good at you then need to go and use it.
With skill points no use is necessary, you don't need to go through the process of increasing it by hand.
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
thats y its no good cause a level 30 could be a BETTER fighter DEPENDING on how he spent his skills.
So really he isnt better/more skilled he just made wiser decisions.
Example of how this system would make skill meaningless and favor the person who spends more time playing.
Lets say the level 30 guy uses swords all the time and he decided to put every skill point that he could into swords and its like 90 or something, then comes the lvl 50 guy who alos uses swords all the time and decides to put every skill point that he gets into swords so his sword skill is 150, now if they fight eachother with the exact same sword and the exact same equipment and theres no technical issues then the 50 guy wins.
I dnt like
But that's the same right now. A person who spend 50 hours playing with the sword will have a higher skill in swords than the one playing for 30 hours. Will he automatically win? I doubt it, but he will have an advantage. How serious? No one knows.
No different from the other option.
Theres 2 differences the first being he wont auto win just cause he has a higher skill lvl, the second is the guy whose lvl 50 wont get extra points to put in other skills just cause hes higher lvl than the 30 guy
Better example. As before the lvl 30 guy put all his extra skill points into swords so its 90, now the 50 guy comes along and has 150 points to spend(every level u get 3 points) and he decides 100 is enough for swords and he decides to put 50 into shields, or even 25 shields 25 healing magick so now when he fights the lvl 30 guy he has a huge advantage just because he could lvl other skills without using them.
Thats y i dont want a skill point, where the ammount of skillpoints u get has anything to do with XP/Levels, and not with how long u use the skill, or even better how WELL u use the skill.
First i wouldent play DF if they got xp and shit.
Secondly: You BUY the sword as well. Then you learn the skill. Same with Magic. You buy the skill then train it.
That doesn't make much sense.
I can buy a sword right now, in real life. I can log on to swords.com and buy a sword.
I can't buy the Kung Fu skill. I can't buy the archery skill. I can't just go to a store, and say, here's 100 bucks, no press a button and I know how to shoot a bow.
How is that the same as buying a sword?
I still don't see how buying a skill with money, is so vastly different than buying a skill with skill points.
What if I turned the skill points into gold pieces? Would that be better? If not, why not? What's the difference?
Imo..
you are trying to argue two different points. And your points contridict each other.
Realife: If you play fight with your friend, you will eventually get better at sword fighting. Now, lets apply this to darkfall (which is what the devs did)
And your saying you want to use your sword to kill someone, but not be pigeonholed into being better with your sword because of it.. Put in a real life situation, that's illogical. You can't use a bow for 10 years, but be somewhat good with a bow, and a sword master, when you've never swung a sword. This is the same concept in Darkfall.
sure, there could be an exploit available where you could just "play fight" with your friend, and become a mster swordsman, but that makes sense. You get better using the skill.
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
Yes, I would still play.
However, I wouldn't categorize it as gaining xp. I would like to see more of an accomplishment-based skill point system.
This is what I mean...
Rather than just doing repeatitive skills over and over to cause your skills to rise you would gain skill points for the different tasks or accomplishments that you do. Beginning tasks and actions would gain you just a single point after a set amount of successful attempts.
Then the more challenging the task or the more impressive your victory over ever increasing odds... the higher the amount of points awarded.
For instance, killing a player below your total skill point amount might only gain you a single point. Killing someone at your same amount might gain you 3, and someone above you might gain you 10.
Same for NPC's. The harder the fight the more you gain from it.
All these points go into the pool for you to distribute as you wish. Perhaps seperated into Combat, Crafting and Adventure/Exploring pools?
The higher you advance a skill the more it takes to keep increasing it.
Basically you choose to do what you want... and then you choose again to put the points where you want. Heh... I like choices.
It's different because when you use money you are getting a skill level of 1 or maybe even 0, you will not be proficient at it. To get good at you then need to go and use it.
With skill points no use is necessary, you don't need to go through the process of increasing it by hand.
I don't get the desire to do the boring part, swing a sword a bazillion times.
Why can't we skip it, and just say we did it?
This gets rid of things like standing there with your buddy, whacing each other over and over to max your skill, or shooting a bow at something 20 times to kill it so you can raise your skill, when you could kill it with one blow of your sword, but your sword is already maxed so you use the bow.
This seems exceedingly dull to me, that the "game" is in the action of the sword swinging.
I tend to look at the game in terms of the completion of the objectives. Killing the mobs, completing the quests, killing your enemy, taking over the city.
How many times I swing the sword should be irrelevant, but so many people seem to find this to be the most fun part of the game. /shrug
It seems like an utter lack of imagination. I don't know how else to describe it.
If you're playing a paper and pencil game, sometimes the Game Master will say, you travel for two weeks, and nothing happens... and then you get on with teh exciting part of teh game.
It would seem the people that don't quite get teh spending skill points concept would insist on playing every day of the two weeks, or they would insist it just wasn't realistic, adn they didn't understand it.
Yes, I would still play.
However, I wouldn't categorize it as gaining xp. I would like to see more of an accomplishment-based skill point system.
This is what I mean...
Rather than just doing repeatitive skills over and over to cause your skills to rise you would gain skill points for the different tasks or accomplishments that you do. Beginning tasks and actions would gain you just a single point after a set amount of successful attempts.
Then the more challenging the task or the more impressive your victory over ever increasing odds... the higher the amount of points awarded.
For instance, killing a player below your total skill point amount might only gain you a single point. Killing someone at your same amount might gain you 3, and someone above you might gain you 10.
Same for NPC's. The harder the fight the more you gain from it.
All these points go into the pool for you to distribute as you wish. Perhaps seperated into Combat, Crafting and Adventure/Exploring pools?
The higher you advance a skill the more it takes to keep increasing it.
Basically you choose to do what you want... and then you choose again to put the points where you want. Heh... I like choices.
Well, yes, that would be precisely the system. You would gain points, spend them as you wish. It would be understood that your character trained in these skills, but YOU the player did not.
There are levels yes, but rather than having certain skills that improve automatically as you level, or stats that do the same, you can control exactly what you do with those points, so you have full control over your character's advancement. Also, depending on how wisely you spend your points, a level 30 could actually be a better fighter than a level 50, you don't know just by their level. So say I spent all of my time crafting and was a level 50 blacksmith, it would just say level 50. Thus the playing field is leveled by not knowing just how dangerous your opponent actually is.
So, would you call Asheron's Call a level based game?
Yeah, which is one of the reasons I quit playing. They kept raising the level cap. Last I knew is was 125, but it could have gone much higher by now.
I don't believe you played Asheron's Call.
Levels were just a number... basically showing you how much XP you earned. All skills/stats everything was raised manually. They didn't "keep raising the level cap". They raised it once. In 2005. And the levels were just a number as in, when your level hit 126, you kept earning xp. But at 275, you stopped.
Point: A level based game has nothing to do with levels, but auto raising skills and restrictions based on where you can travel due to your level. Not Skill.
What? You say there were levels, but it wasn't a level based game, and don't believe I've played it? That's insane. You can quibble over semantics all you like, but if the game has levels, it's level based. You also got 'skill points' that you could spend on buying new skills every few levels, so the levels were more than just a measurement of how much expirience you had. And I have no idea what your whole thing about level restrictions based on where you can go comes from. I think you have played too much WoW.
And how did you reach this conclusion?
Darkfall NO level number but the SKILLS will still be leveled. So, I guess darkfall will be a level based game. Right?
You fail at all of your assumptions, although, you are right, you did get skill points at certain levels. Dark fall just won't have those "milestones" but instead you'll START with all of the skills. Now, tell me how Darkfall is SOOOOO much different that Asheron's Call.
I'll wait. and get popcorn.
What? Have you been smoking crack? You don't make any sense at all. I wasn't saying that it was, or wasn't like AC. I was saying that if it had a skill system like AC it would make sense.
Explaining how a person who fights with a sword could advance in magic at the same time.
You are all over the map. I have no idea what you are trying to say, but you certainly leave a lot to be desired in your communication skills. Perhaps you should sidle on down to the library and buy the appropriate skill for intelligent discussion while you are getting that popcorn.
Wow.. you feel the need to insult my intelligence... yet.. you can't even read what you wrote..
You describe DF as not being a level based game because your skill do not auto raise.
You, than say, you can allocate your points how you wish, thus, perhaps, making you a better fighter.
This is where I come in and say "Did you classify Asheron's call as a level based game" To which you reply "Yes" then go on to state .. well.. not facts about AC and them raising the level cap.
Now, I reply back stating that you haven't infact, played AC because of how you viewed the advancement structure being different than darkfall., and that structure being a number given to the amount of XP you've earned, as well as how many skills you could have.
To which, you replied, that I must be smoking crack, and I lack communication skills..
To that I reply.. Learn to read.. Moron.
I'm now confused by what you are trying so vainly to communicate.
Does Darkfall have levels? Does Darkfall have points that can be allocated as you wish? Does Darkfall have a skill system that allows you to buy new skills as you advance in level?
No.
But the OP was saying would you play the game if it did. Someone then asked:
-Explain exactly how getting a set amount of xp and then spending it on character points is different from a level based game, except that there is no visible level number. If you count how many batches of points you have recieved that is your level.-
And I was explaining the Asheron's Call system as it is akin to what I was assuming the OP was thinking of.
They you come along and ask if AC was a level based game, which I said yes it was. It is a hybrid level based game with some differences, but it was still level based. You could spend your skill points in health and stats as well as skills as you pleased, but it was still measured in levels as your skills came in level increments. You didn't have to wait till you reached the next level to spend those points, which made it feel less like it was level based, but in the end it was.
Then you started going on about certain areas and not being able to get into them until certain levels, and how that it what makes a level based game. Which is completely outside of my expirience as far as the definition of 'level based'.
As your continual saying that I haven't played AC...I played AC in beta. I was there for the Fire from the Sky event. I was there for the first two years through the Shadow Wars. I was there when Bael'Zharon fought with Asheron. I stood face to face with Martine in Qalibar and was struck down by him repeatedly. So, I'm pretty sure I've played the game. And also, they raised the cap to 126, then in the next expansion they made it so that you could continue to gain skill points to an effective level 275.
First i wouldent play DF if they got xp and shit.
Secondly: You BUY the sword as well. Then you learn the skill. Same with Magic. You buy the skill then train it.
That doesn't make much sense.
I can buy a sword right now, in real life. I can log on to swords.com and buy a sword.
I can't buy the Kung Fu skill. I can't buy the archery skill. I can't just go to a store, and say, here's 100 bucks, no press a button and I know how to shoot a bow.
How is that the same as buying a sword?
I still don't see how buying a skill with money, is so vastly different than buying a skill with skill points.
What if I turned the skill points into gold pieces? Would that be better? If not, why not? What's the difference?
Imo..
you are trying to argue two different points. And your points contridict each other.
Realife: If you play fight with your friend, you will eventually get better at sword fighting. Now, lets apply this to darkfall (which is what the devs did)
And your saying you want to use your sword to kill someone, but not be pigeonholed into being better with your sword because of it.. Put in a real life situation, that's illogical. You can't use a bow for 10 years, but be somewhat good with a bow, and a sword master, when you've never swung a sword. This is the same concept in Darkfall.
sure, there could be an exploit available where you could just "play fight" with your friend, and become a mster swordsman, but that makes sense. You get better using the skill.
Hits head on brick wall.
no, no, a thousand times no, I'm not saying that at all. I'm not saying using a sword makes you better at a bow. How can you be so dense? Seriously.
I'm saying your character trained with the bow. You the player did not.
Just like in Darkfall when you BUY the archery skill. Your character was obviously shown how ot use a bow, he didn't suddenly become able to use a bow because he gave some one a coin, but before he couldn't use a bow. Something happened to your CHARACTER, but not YOU the person.
Get it?
I read your last post.. you aren't even worth replying to anymore..
........oh goody, so I don't have to school you in reading comprehension anymore?
We are talking about what happens in the game not what happens in peoples imaginations, you can imagine whatever you want but it won't manifest itself ingame. In the game you have used your sword and as a result you have improved your bow skill.
We are talking about what happens in the game not what happens in peoples imaginations, you can imagine whatever you want but it won't manifest itself ingame. In the game you have used your sword and as a result you have improved your bow skill.
How do you get new skills in Darkfall? You buy them.
You can't shoot a bow right now, because you don't have the archery skill.
You hand someone a coin, and now you ahve the archery skill.
How? What happened in the game to give you the archery skill? We both know shooting a bow makes you get better at shooting a bow.
You're telling me that placing a coin in someone's hand makes you learn a skill you didn't have before?
hits head on brick wall.
Are you really that dense? I give up.