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Why is discussion on this game so heated?
I first heard about Darkfall somewhere in late 04 / early 05. I had been searching for a game with a very specific list of features that would allow for a type of game experience that I enjoy and at that time Darkfall was about the only thing on the horizon.
I've followed several online games before and I knew from experience that such titles tend to spend a lot of time in development. After checking aout their forums and their home page it seemed like they were in the early to mid stages of development. The impression I got was that they had put together the first draft of a new engine by that point and were starting to build art resources and models. Given how long I've followed some other titles, (WoW, for example, was under development for ages and SWG also spent a long time in dev), I assumed that I'd probably be seeing some real progress in late 07 / early 08 and a late 08 / early 09 release.
I stopped following the title and figured I'd check it out after it had a few years to bake. I was a bit suprised that I didn't hear about the game again until mid 08, but given that it's a new and very small company I figured that five to six months was a fair grace period.
Since that time I've seen a lot of footage (easily an hour and a half) a good number of screen shots, read several interviews, and even read a few beta reports from the media. Sure most of it is from European sources, but given that the company is in Europe and the game is launching in Europe first, that didn't seem odd to me in the slightest.
I double checked their releases since I first heard about their game, and their feature list hasn't changed too much in the areas I care about. Most of what they're promising isn't all that revolutionary even seeming as the bulk of such features have been spattered throughout other games.
It remains the only game on the horizon that has the specific combo of features that I feel are important to a sandbox style game with a solid economy and good pvp system, so I imagine that even though most of the features have been done before, the gameplay will feel unique and innovative (at least in the fantasy genere - EvE at the moment also has a fairly solid feature list for the economic/political type of game play I enjoy). In all, it seems reasonable that they can accomplish the majority of what they claim.
I'm not sure it'll be a great game, but it still seems very promising and the company (and its partners) are acting in a way that strongly suggests an impending release.
Am I alone in seeing things this way? Everyone seems to either love or hate this game already and it hasn't even hit shelves. The company hasn't acted too differently from most other devs, in fact in many ways it looks like they've provided a bit more information than most do. Where does all this passion come from?
Comments
It boggles the mind doesn't it.
You would think that, as gamers, we would all be rooting for a game to release and do well in our genre that hasn't had good releases lately. Instead you see people trying to bring the developers or the game down, and heated discussion comes of it.
The only thing that matters is the product on release and how the company communicates when that happens.
We should be rooting for them and not picking on every little thing that may go wrong during development when none of us are paying customers yet. They haven't wronged us in anyway as we are not invested in the game at all. Except those who have "invested time", but that was their choice.
January 22nd will end it all. Then we will discuss how good or bad the game is (and trust me there will be 2 sides)
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
If people dont have a good game to pvp in, they'll do it on a forum...
nice one
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Good question OP,
had a bit of luck to find out about DF just end of 2007 but coming to these place as in an attempt to collect first impressions about the game, i ran into a place seemingly populated by anti-DF crowd ...
Really weird ..with the progress and available info about the game through 2008 ...you mind the anti - df crowd changed somewhat ? No ..just more people who like DF joined / dare to speak up..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
In a nutshell, the developers have promised so much it's hard to believe they will be able to deliver on half of what they have promised. Plus, they have a history of breaking promises.
I wish the game the best of luck but I'm not holding my breath.
Here is an example OP of why discussion is heated...people posting false info.
Aventurine has never broken a single promise...not one. People like to think they have because they feel entitled to stuff, but facts are facts.
The only promise they have maybe slightly broken (and it happened today so a "history" of it is wrong) is that they are missing their release goal by 22 days. WOAH LIARS!.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
In my entirely time here (not much but after all about a year) they didn't break any promise and sticked to every promise - yes 22 days later release as announced at April.. .boo.. big deal.. ...
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Good response... if the question posed was why there is skepticism. Skepticism doesn't necessarily translate into hate or heated arguments.
The only reason I can think of is that people don't want it to succeed so they started being really negative and hostile.
"Some people doubt it's possible, others worry that it is." -Tasos
This sums it up for me.
I'll believe/try it when/if it releases.
Then I'll load up DNF and give that a whirl.
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
I don't see what all the fuss is about either, I view DF in the same fashion as the op.
There is not really anything that hasn't been done before in Darkfalls feature list, it's just not been done in this particular combination.
When devs state their intentions regarding things like dates and features that is all it is, an intention. It is not a promise it is what they are aiming for. When release gets very close with confirmed offical release dates, like todays, then you can take it more seriously.
This should not need explaining but some people seem to take everything literally. Considering some of these people claim to be veteran gamers you would think that they would know this by now this but apparently they do not or are feigning ignorance.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if released was pushed back again and it still wouldn't be lying, this is perfectly normal and happens with most games.
Add in the fact that other people's PvP games have not turned out exactly as they hoped or how their companies had extensively hyped them, and then find that 'misery loves company'.
"My game is weaksauce, so I want EVERY game to be weaksauce."
"TO MICHAEL!"
This sums it up for me.
I'll believe/try it when/if it releases.
Then I'll load up DNF and give that a whirl.
Here is another example that adds to the mystery...
Someone's first post in these forum (and site at all) is spend on agree to the "long history of broken promises"
mysterious
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Here is an example OP of why discussion is heated...people posting false info.
Aventurine has never broken a single promise...not one. People like to think they have because they feel entitled to stuff, but facts are facts.
The only promise they have maybe slightly broken (and it happened today so a "history" of it is wrong) is that they are missing their release goal by 22 days. WOAH LIARS!.
actually, they did announce a few prior betas, clan betas and such that never happened. Although I wouldn't go as far as to say they have a history of lying. At any rate I can't wait to finally play this game!
I think a lot of the DF hate is spill-over from the trainwreck(s) that were DnL, Mourning, and a few other epic mmo failures. When these games collapsed, each of their haters (and prolly a few of their fanbois) needed a new game to bash...
Some people can only feel good if they are spreading misery and hate. No worries though, since DF is now releasing, they will move on to yet another game to bash!
This sums it up for me.
I'll believe/try it when/if it releases.
Then I'll load up DNF and give that a whirl.
Here is another example that adds to the mystery...
Someone's first post in these forum is spend on agree to the "long history of broken promises"
mysterious
To be fair weve been seeing a lot of 1 post wonders with newly created accounts defending darkfall as of late. With certain fan club members being mysteriously absent, (Originalegg anyone?) Id be willing to bet its banned fans who are making new accounts to get in on the action.
Here is an example OP of why discussion is heated...people posting false info.
Aventurine has never broken a single promise...not one. People like to think they have because they feel entitled to stuff, but facts are facts.
The only promise they have maybe slightly broken (and it happened today so a "history" of it is wrong) is that they are missing their release goal by 22 days. WOAH LIARS!.
actually, they did announce a few prior betas, clan betas and such that never happened. Although I wouldn't go as far as to say they have a history of lying. At any rate I can't wait to finally play this game!
Yep that is well known, and extremely exagerrated to be a negative thing. They planned to have betas to help develop the game. No one was a customer and didnt deserve anything. Beta wasnt "promised" and no one was entitled to it. They made the decision to delay for development reasons and they were well within their right to do so.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
This sums it up for me.
I'll believe/try it when/if it releases.
Then I'll load up DNF and give that a whirl.
Here is another example that adds to the mystery...
Someone's first post in these forum is spend on agree to the "long history of broken promises"
mysterious
To be fair weve been seeing a lot of 1 post wonders with newly created accounts defending darkfall as of late. With certain fan club members being mysteriously absent, (Originalegg anyone?) Id be willing to bet its banned fans who are making new accounts to get in on the action.
omg conspiracy!
lol please arcken get over yourself as usual. you are certainly part of your own club...who are much more guilty of what you are accusing me of.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
This is why, and it is only a sample I had laying around:
08-03-2003
http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/darkfall2-1.php
Claus: Darkfall is entering closed beta testing in September this year. The closed beta is fully playable, with most core features implemented. We will be adding features and content during closed beta, while we gear up for the next beta stages.
GB: In the past couple of years, have any of your design goals changed? Has anything been cut/added from the development process?
Claus: Very little has changed. We have stayed true to the original design, and kept almost all of the features promised when we launched the Darkfall site two years ago. We sadly had to remove some popular features such as flying mounts, for reasons having to do with game balance issues related to sieges, and deformable terrain, due to possible latency issues. We have tried to make up for it by adding more content than originally planned. We'll be looking at possibly implementing these features at a later date.
GB: Will there be multiple phases to the public beta? Have you arrived at a date when you might begin such a beta?
Claus: Starting from Closed Beta in September, we will slowly add more and more testers. We will have an open beta shortly after, for stress testing.
9-30-2003
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=5542
Tasos: We feel that the Darkfall community deserves an update on the state of the game, this being the last day of Septemeber. We had said that we expect to be in beta this month and there has been a lot of speculation and uncertainty about what we meant by that.
We've been in a tech beta since September 2nd, testing, working on bugs, tuning and tweaking, adding content, and building the world. We're slightly behind schedule in some areas of development, ahead of schedule in others, and we're always working on new things, the latest being an optional third person perspective that can fit in with our gameplay design. Overall we're very happy with the progress, we don't have any serious problems, and we believe that we'll be able to deliver an advanced beta build for playtesting before long.
11-27-2003
Tasos: We've been quiet for a while, being in a stage of implementation with little to report. We thought it would be best to start by giving the community an overview with information of where we're at, and what we're doing now. We'll continue with frequent status updates as needed until Darkfall's release.
1-26-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=7202
Tasos: Since our last update we've completed a lot of work and we're busy working on our latest Darkfall build which is on schedule and due to be out on February the 3d. This build is an important step towards community playtesting.
4-6-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=8495
When is Beta?
Darkfall is currently in the final stages of internal beta testing. This means that the game is being tested in-house in preparation for public playtesting. A beta registration form will become available on this website soon.
7-9-2004
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=9970
Darkfall is still in internal beta. Delays and development taking longer than anticipated is the norm in the gaming industry as we all know, even in companies and projects with virtually unlimited resources. In our case the time related problems were tied more with the development of the advanced technology and the tools behind the game and not so much with the game itself.
5-4-2005
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/86/gameID/4/
MMORPG.com:
(Munka) I'm sure the biggest thing on the mind of the fans is when the beta is going to be held. Is the team nearing this stage or is there still a great deal to do before you can think about a beta?
Darkfall Team: We've been asked this question often and we know that this is on the mind of the fans, it's on our mind as well since there's nothing we would like more than have people playtesting the game.
We do have an internal milestone for the beta as the fans perceive it, and that's the state where the game can be playtested and fun could be had. We're nearing this stage. Other than that, we've been testing the game internally for quite some time now.
11-28-2005
http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
Tasos Flambouras: We're preparing for beta testing as we speak; you can apply on this page of our website. It's a huge job, and we want it done right. The start of the beta is affected by multiple variables, and not just development ones. The same goes for Darkfall's launch date. Once we have a date that we're reasonably sure of, we'll announce it immediately. The additional time taken to work on the game was a decision made in an effort to make Darkfall directly competitive with the largest MMOG titles out there. Nobody is going to feel they've stepped down by switching to Darkfall, or play Darkfall as an alternative to their main game.
8-26-2006
http://www.womengamers.com/articles/editorials/passion-behind-darkfall-online/1/
They've kept their game fairly low on the PR radar until this year. "Too many MMOs are released before they're ready to go to market," said Associate Producer Tasos Flambouras. "We want the beta to be almost finished before we show it to the world."
When I asked how far along they were with their game, they seemed pretty confident that the engine was almost ready. "We're spending a lot of our efforts tuning the graphics and art assets right now," explained Flambournas.
10-11-2006
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=26783
Tasos: We're in the middle of an effort of maintaining beta preparations while continuing to develop the game. In regards to that, I understand that the main information you need is a date, and we're getting closer to locking a schedule in.
11-30-2006
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/4/setView/features/loadFeature/733/InterviewwithTasosFlambouras.html
MMORPG.com: As Darkfall continues its development cycle when can we expect to see a Beta? Also do you have a target for production?
Tasos Flambouras: We've mentioned before that it's difficult to run a beta test while continuing development on the game, especially when all our human resources are in development. We are now at a stage where we can and we are preparing the beta test which will allow external beta testers in and this is now a high priority for us. We do have a target for production but realistically the target date will be tweaked during testing. We think it's better to hold off on an announcement until then.
MMORPG.com: What is in the near future for Darkfall? After launch are there plans for an expansion?
Tasos Flambouras: We're moving towards external testing in the near future. As for after launch, Darkfall follows a timeline and the design looks past the release of the game. We already have plans and guidelines for part of our first updates.
1-17-2007
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=30347
The beta development milestone was met early in December. Since then we've had a fully functional and stable beta build up on remote servers, which is being patched regularly.
5-31-2007
http://df.warcry.com/forums/read/270.42541
Tasos: We've been throwing around the word beta quite a bit, and it's not to churn the waters, it's because it's what we're working on right now. An editorial on this site urged us to come out with a date. Well that's nice, and we will when we have one. We've specified that our internal target date is this summer and we can't get more specific yet, but we will when we're ready to make an announcement.
9-28-2007
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2289-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-15-A-Visit-From-a-Fan
Tasos: If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met.
1-11-2008
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2796-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-21-Summary-Status
Overall, we have a near complete implementation of the game, speaking of the technology and our feature list. We're running the game through proper QA testing at the moment, and doing full optimizations to make sure everything will run smoothly even when demands on the game are high.
4-11-2008
http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/3570-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-25-Philosophy
Tasos: Darkfall is feature complete and we're doing beta testing using professional testers as we've said before.
Tasos: Based on the above, it's conceivable that we may be further along in development than several games in beta, or with announced release dates. So why don't we announce a date already? It's because there's no way we'll miss a release date and we're not going to just set a date as a goal, and either postpone or be forced to release something unfinished. We resolve to stick with our release date because we know how people tend to plan around this as far as organization, time and hardware goes when they're looking to make a commitment to an MMORPG, especially a competitive one like Darkfall.
After many years of "almost ready", you start to think that maybe...just maybe...they are not being very honest about the state of their game. Even if they did not "lie", they did not tell us the truth either. Some take this better than others.
Here is an example OP of why discussion is heated...people posting false info.
Aventurine has never broken a single promise...not one. People like to think they have because they feel entitled to stuff, but facts are facts.
The only promise they have maybe slightly broken (and it happened today so a "history" of it is wrong) is that they are missing their release goal by 22 days. WOAH LIARS!.
Agree, they havent broken a single promise......except the 22 day delay. So the history of broken promises is all made up by the haters of this game. Intentions of opening beta have been arround before but never promised. Game have been upgraded several times which explains the old beta info, they didnt go for beta and release and instead decided to work abit more on the game. Make it a better one.
Im glad they decided to continue the development and not go for a beta 2005.
Bottom Line-----------------------------
Anyone who is here and NOT a supporter or waiting to play DF must be a sad soul who needs to get out more and stop being emo. Why be here if you want nothing to do with DF?? Exactly... go DO SOMETHING ANYTHING
Yes, they have. If you followed the development and release of WAR, it's been very very different from the development and imminent release of DF.
Yes, they have. If you followed the development and release of WAR, it's been very very different from the development and imminent release of DF.
and look at the failure War was... maybe we NEED devs to do it differently... kthxbai
I agree. If anyone is not at all interested in this game, they should go somewhere else.
And lets not forget - it is not my fault.
Yes, they have. If you followed the development and release of WAR, it's been very very different from the development and imminent release of DF.
and look at the failure War was... maybe we NEED devs to do it differently... kthxbai
So you agree with me that the OP was wrong. kthxbai
Delete the text in red and you have what many people were saying to the Darkfall supporters posting about how they can't wait for a release over the last 4 YEARS! I'm just saying why not be the better man and not stoop to thier level?
I admit I called it vapourware for the last few years and if it does release next month I will apologize to every DF supporter I may have scorned over that time. Though it probably won't matter as they'll all be playing the game by that time!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis