...and say that I am really looking foward to DF, and that I am now, after maintaining a neutrality on it for a long time to see how things play out, an official fan and outright supporter of not only what it represents for the genre, but the game and it's reality as well. Call me a 'fanboy' now if you want, I don't care. The insult means nothing to me. I also don't care about the percieved 'insults' that the hateboys keep banging on about, I don't feel lied to at all, and I don't care about how long it has taken to arrive. I also don't care if the Devs are 'nice guys' or not. This has nothing to do with finished product or a good game. I want to play DF, not have a beer with Tasos.... ...and to be honest, if I was trying to build something as challenging as a quality mmorpg on an Indie's staff base and budget WHILE having to put up with the hormonal whinging of mouthy teenagers just looking to push my buttons, I would be less then happy talking to the public as well. I would just want to get on with my work in silence and prove them all so wrong. I have read everything that you hateboys have to say, and to me it just gets weaker and weaker, while the pro DF guys are getting stronger and stronger as they are proven more and more right by the building body of evidence. The fact is that it just looks, from beta previews and SS, to be a solid and great game. Been doing some research recently, and I have to say that if a pre-order was offered now that I would take it. And no, I don't pre-order mmorpgs usually for obvious reasons, but I have a growing faith in this one. Say what you like about this, it's just the truth. For the first time, I am starting to really believe in DF, and have hope for the genre. I like a lot of what I am seeing out there, and am loving all the little details in the mix... like the backpack that opens up as a jumbled pile of loot that your have to click and drag to rummage through, while looking over your shoulder 'cause you know someone wants to do the same thing to you.... Great Also loving the graphics. Just the right mix of realism and cartoon for my personal tastes, while keeping the specs low enough for PvP. The environments look stunning to me, and even the character models look a LOT better the other recent games (LoTR and WAR for instance). I am no Dirty Harry, but I started playing MMOs seriously on a team PvP EQ server and I miss the extra zest that environment brings to a MMORPG... DF looks like it will have that. I can't wait for the politics and power brokering that will come out of it. All I can say is hurry up the 22nd of Jan, and hope to see you guys here (who are actually interested in the game rather then picking petty fights on forums) in game. I honestly think this is gonna be a LOT of fun oh, btw, just also want to say a big thank you to all you long term fans out there that have kept your hopes alive through the sleet of sewerage that has been thrown at you down the years. I have come in late, but without you guys as a fanbase this may have stalled way before now. This is your time of victory, as the Hateboys gig ever deeper for ever more desperate and transparent ways to provoke you all, so enjoy it
Iver never seen a more obvious attempt at garnering applause. Its like standing up in church and yelling "Im a (insert denomination here) Im one of you, love me!
Im sure the psychology behind this whole thing would creep me out.
Ill be sure to necro this one if Darkfall bombs, then you'll really feel sheepish.
Thats a pretty silly thing to say. If anyone should be feeling sheepish then it should be you for posting this.
The OP is simply expressing his thoughts about the game just like everyone else. Who is he supposed to be garnering applause from anyway? The Darkfall fans and other people who are looking forward to the game? If he said the complete opposite and instead stated a load of reasons why he feels the game will fail then would you have still posted your comment stating that he is garnering applause from the opposite "faction"?
Like the OP said, will you apologise if Darkfall succeeds or will you slink off and pretend you never said this. Hmmm I wonder.
Has nothing to do with Darkfall sir, I was simply pointing out that the whole post seemed rather attention garnering. And thats just creepy to me.
As for my stance, you are mistaken, Ive never said either way the game is going to suck or going to rule. All Ive ever said is that Im skeptical that theyll pull it off, I dislike the way theyve handled the game, and I dont like Tasos. My whole guild is poisod to play it, but Im skeptical of their promises, to me its far too eerily similar to DnL.
I dont have my eggs in either basket, I wont be suprised it if bombs, and Ill be pleasantly suprised if its a good game. See how that works?
Again, you ASSUME a lot of things, just like he did, just like the fanboi camp does, its like flies to shit anytime someone questions anything about Darkfall. Thanks for yet again proving that creepy is still in fashion.
You see, thats the point.
You DIDNT question anything about DF.
You went straight for the personal attack.
And then tried to make it look like we have the issues...
You see, I know you now Arcken and I see how it 'works' for you. Your one of those guys who is just negative, rude and nasty, while sitting on the fence so that he can just jump either way and say 'I told ya!' when the answer finally comes in. It's called hedging your bets, and your pretty good at it. Tbh though, all it really just shows a weakness of character, as does your need to be rude and insulting in every post.
But, don't worry, we can still be buddies!
Again, my whole point was that Darkfall fans really go far too overboard and are setting themselves up for disappointment. Again, the difference here between you and me, is Im not operating under and assumption, I think your whole OP was wierd, and its reminiscent of the way people acted about DnL. I felt the same way about them, they were acting just like the way Darkfall fans are now.
As for weakness of character, again, merely an assumption. Mine was an opinion, your post was creepy like a lot of posts I see from Darkfall fans. . I didnt say you were this or you were that, or call you any names, or say that you have weak character.
So yeah, keep sitting around the campfire with your pals singing koom bah ya, and Ill keep the more realistic approach so I dont end up looking the fool for overdoing it either way.
...and say that I am really looking foward to DF, and that I am now, after maintaining a neutrality on it for a long time to see how things play out, an official fan and outright supporter of not only what it represents for the genre, but the game and it's reality as well. Call me a 'fanboy' now if you want, I don't care. The insult means nothing to me. I also don't care about the percieved 'insults' that the hateboys keep banging on about, I don't feel lied to at all, and I don't care about how long it has taken to arrive. I also don't care if the Devs are 'nice guys' or not. This has nothing to do with finished product or a good game. I want to play DF, not have a beer with Tasos.... ...and to be honest, if I was trying to build something as challenging as a quality mmorpg on an Indie's staff base and budget WHILE having to put up with the hormonal whinging of mouthy teenagers just looking to push my buttons, I would be less then happy talking to the public as well. I would just want to get on with my work in silence and prove them all so wrong. I have read everything that you hateboys have to say, and to me it just gets weaker and weaker, while the pro DF guys are getting stronger and stronger as they are proven more and more right by the building body of evidence. The fact is that it just looks, from beta previews and SS, to be a solid and great game. Been doing some research recently, and I have to say that if a pre-order was offered now that I would take it. And no, I don't pre-order mmorpgs usually for obvious reasons, but I have a growing faith in this one. Say what you like about this, it's just the truth. For the first time, I am starting to really believe in DF, and have hope for the genre. I like a lot of what I am seeing out there, and am loving all the little details in the mix... like the backpack that opens up as a jumbled pile of loot that your have to click and drag to rummage through, while looking over your shoulder 'cause you know someone wants to do the same thing to you.... Great Also loving the graphics. Just the right mix of realism and cartoon for my personal tastes, while keeping the specs low enough for PvP. The environments look stunning to me, and even the character models look a LOT better the other recent games (LoTR and WAR for instance). I am no Dirty Harry, but I started playing MMOs seriously on a team PvP EQ server and I miss the extra zest that environment brings to a MMORPG... DF looks like it will have that. I can't wait for the politics and power brokering that will come out of it. All I can say is hurry up the 22nd of Jan, and hope to see you guys here (who are actually interested in the game rather then picking petty fights on forums) in game. I honestly think this is gonna be a LOT of fun oh, btw, just also want to say a big thank you to all you long term fans out there that have kept your hopes alive through the sleet of sewerage that has been thrown at you down the years. I have come in late, but without you guys as a fanbase this may have stalled way before now. This is your time of victory, as the Hateboys gig ever deeper for ever more desperate and transparent ways to provoke you all, so enjoy it
DF will bring revolution. 5-7 years from now, we will be inundated with free form sandbox mmo's with realism abound, promising real time combat and ffa full loot, yada, much like we have a glut of linear leveling treadmill carrot/stick mmo's today.
What i think will happen, because what Barnum says is true, there is a sucker born every minute, is that there will be 2 "classes" or "age ranges" of mmo gamers. The linear carrot stick, leveling treadmills will cater to the younger crowd, while us more sophisticated, jaded, long time mmo gamers, will crave something more, as we grow sick of the status quo.
Well, 3 I think if we build in the Hello KItty and Lego type of games, but yeah your probably very right.
I have never claimed this game will revolutionise the genre, I have only said that niche gaming is healthy, even essential, for the hobby.
I am a bit confused though by the Barnum quote... One, he didnt actually say it, his rival Hannum did, and Two, I can't see how it applies...
...and say that I am really looking foward to DF, and that I am now, after maintaining a neutrality on it for a long time to see how things play out, an official fan and outright supporter of not only what it represents for the genre, but the game and it's reality as well. Call me a 'fanboy' now if you want, I don't care. The insult means nothing to me. I also don't care about the percieved 'insults' that the hateboys keep banging on about, I don't feel lied to at all, and I don't care about how long it has taken to arrive. I also don't care if the Devs are 'nice guys' or not. This has nothing to do with finished product or a good game. I want to play DF, not have a beer with Tasos.... ...and to be honest, if I was trying to build something as challenging as a quality mmorpg on an Indie's staff base and budget WHILE having to put up with the hormonal whinging of mouthy teenagers just looking to push my buttons, I would be less then happy talking to the public as well. I would just want to get on with my work in silence and prove them all so wrong. I have read everything that you hateboys have to say, and to me it just gets weaker and weaker, while the pro DF guys are getting stronger and stronger as they are proven more and more right by the building body of evidence. The fact is that it just looks, from beta previews and SS, to be a solid and great game. Been doing some research recently, and I have to say that if a pre-order was offered now that I would take it. And no, I don't pre-order mmorpgs usually for obvious reasons, but I have a growing faith in this one. Say what you like about this, it's just the truth. For the first time, I am starting to really believe in DF, and have hope for the genre. I like a lot of what I am seeing out there, and am loving all the little details in the mix... like the backpack that opens up as a jumbled pile of loot that your have to click and drag to rummage through, while looking over your shoulder 'cause you know someone wants to do the same thing to you.... Great Also loving the graphics. Just the right mix of realism and cartoon for my personal tastes, while keeping the specs low enough for PvP. The environments look stunning to me, and even the character models look a LOT better the other recent games (LoTR and WAR for instance). I am no Dirty Harry, but I started playing MMOs seriously on a team PvP EQ server and I miss the extra zest that environment brings to a MMORPG... DF looks like it will have that. I can't wait for the politics and power brokering that will come out of it. All I can say is hurry up the 22nd of Jan, and hope to see you guys here (who are actually interested in the game rather then picking petty fights on forums) in game. I honestly think this is gonna be a LOT of fun oh, btw, just also want to say a big thank you to all you long term fans out there that have kept your hopes alive through the sleet of sewerage that has been thrown at you down the years. I have come in late, but without you guys as a fanbase this may have stalled way before now. This is your time of victory, as the Hateboys gig ever deeper for ever more desperate and transparent ways to provoke you all, so enjoy it
Iver never seen a more obvious attempt at garnering applause. Its like standing up in church and yelling "Im a (insert denomination here) love me!
Im sure the psychology behind this whole thing would creep me out.
Ill be sure to necro this one if Darkfall bombs, then you'll really feel sheepish.
hehe ok, see it as you will. It dosent matter to me
The fact that you resorted straight away to a postitive post with a personal attack tells me exactly what you are.
Oh, btw, if DF is a success then I do hope, in return, that you will come here and start a new thread saying sorry for all your rudeness and the offense that you have caused?
Or will you just slink off and hope noone remembers you?
Dont fool yourself, my post history proves Ive supported the concept of this game, and have said many times in the past that Ill play it, and hope they can pull this whole thing off. My beef is with that segment of the fans that act all wierd, in fact just like you do, over a video game. Two, I think theyre a little nutso for the way theyve handled it, but Ill forgive if they deliver. And finally, Tasos himself, I just think the guys a jerk, and you can tell hes never held a position like the one hes currently in, fire him already, there are far more qualified people to speak for Aventurine. That is all, keep up the worship.
From an OP who was neutral till just now, You are confusing worship with support. I beleive you are trying too hard to read into OP, you have NO idea what his motives or intent is, so why are you guessing.
Arcken I have seen posts by you completely contradicting what you are saying now, you've said almost exactly what I am saying to you right now about reading too far into other people, yet you make this same mistake, HOW?
I dont think OP is trying to get attention in any way, well, "Arent we all to an extent, thats what the "REPLY BUTTON" was invented for". But I think OP posted specificly to share his views, and he successfully did so, I dont see a single problem with that, yet you where pretty nasty, dont try to play naive.
I actually said after reading that, I dont want to know what his motives were. This sort of support needs to be out there AFTER the game is out, not before, not when its just blind faith and good intentions. I think its its nuts to set yourself up for a fall like that without full on proof first.
And yeah, still a little wierd that someone would specifically start a thread whose whole purpose is to say look at me Ive converted without solid proof! Sorry but I find it creepy that someone suddenly joined the club that is based on blind faith because now he suddenly believes in what hasnt been proven. And if that wasnt strange enough, he wants to come here and shout it from the roof tops?
DF will bring revolution. 5-7 years from now, we will be inundated with free form sandbox mmo's with realism abound, promising real time combat and ffa full loot, yada, much like we have a glut of linear leveling treadmill carrot/stick mmo's today.
What i think will happen, because what Barnum says is true, there is a sucker born every minute, is that there will be 2 "classes" or "age ranges" of mmo gamers. The linear carrot stick, leveling treadmills will cater to the younger crowd, while us more sophisticated, jaded, long time mmo gamers, will crave something more, as we grow sick of the status quo.
I think, the more -sophisticated- among us, will pick a game that they enjoy, regardless of what quasi-stereotype certain fanatics attach to different types of MMO's. And those who are caught up in the illusion that playing a certain type of game makes you more sophisticated than other people will continue to bicker and complain about the lack of good games.
Meanwhile, the -sophisticated- people will enjoy playing wherever they enjoy themselves. Be that linear, sandbox or FPS games. ^^
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Subjective
"Placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."
Not superstition.
"Any blindly accepted belief or notion "
Which is what you're mixing it up with. But don't let me stop you , please do carry on.
DF will bring revolution. 5-7 years from now, we will be inundated with free form sandbox mmo's with realism abound, promising real time combat and ffa full loot, yada, much like we have a glut of linear leveling treadmill carrot/stick mmo's today.
What i think will happen, because what Barnum says is true, there is a sucker born every minute, is that there will be 2 "classes" or "age ranges" of mmo gamers. The linear carrot stick, leveling treadmills will cater to the younger crowd, while us more sophisticated, jaded, long time mmo gamers, will crave something more, as we grow sick of the status quo.
I think, the more -sophisticated- among us, will pick a game that they enjoy, regardless of what quasi-stereotype certain fanatics attach to different types of MMO's. And those who are caught up in the illusion that playing a certain type of game makes you more sophisticated than other people will continue to bicker and complain about the lack of good games.
Meanwhile, the -sophisticated- people will enjoy playing wherever they enjoy themselves. Be that linear, sandbox or FPS games. ^^
Just my thought on this particular idea.
I agree to an extent, now has never been a better time to jump on the DF bandwaggon. But I can also see why people still speculate on this issue. I just wish those who speculate so strongly werent so deffensive of it calling fanbois ect stupid. Everyone who wanted to could have gotton plenty of proof about DF at the athens digital if they wanted to.
And no im not talking about Arcken, he is a moderate speculator/supportor, somewhat of a limbo. I am talking about those nutzos with half eaten brains which takes up about a quarter of the speculator population.
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Subjective
"Placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."
Not superstition.
"Any blindly accepted belief or notion "
Which is what you're mixing it up with. But don't let me stop you , please do carry on.
Actually, 'subjective' has a few meanings, I meant this one;
"existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective )."
I'm not talking about you in specifics. I am talking about the general atmosphere that suddenly seems to be present on this board.
Seriously, this is sad. People are getting excited on about a game that they've been waiting for some years, on their own forums in this here site, and that is bad? I don't understand you people. Troll sometimes is too light to describe you.
I'm not talking about you in specifics. I am talking about the general atmosphere that suddenly seems to be present on this board.
Seriously, this is sad. People are getting excited on about a game that they've been waiting for some years, on their own forums in this here site, and that is bad? I don't understand you people. Troll sometimes is too light to describe you.
o.O Yeah....right.
Like you people calling anyone who has been "skeptic" of the game in the past but then expressing happiness about a release date a hypocrite and a shizo. Like people smashing down any kind of discussion about possible problems come launch and/or discussions about the reasons why certain things are being done in a certain way.
Riiiiiiiiight. That's totally just being excited and happy. I get it now.
Actually, I hope Darkfall does well... I just dont expect it to = If there is one thing that has been learned from all the MMO releases, it is that when an MMO developer announces a release date, and there is a lot of coverage and information about the game available, it is never a good sign.
Fixed.
Oh stop that garbage already, that little joke isnt funny, and it wasnt funny in the first place.
It's not supposed to be funny, it's a fact.
It doesn't matter if there is a lot of information or no information, it has no bearing on the end result.
This is not true.
This is a business where the developers are trying to get sales. That is why EVERY game developer releases more and more information about the game up until the release - to get more players ready to buy the game.
If there is a lack of information, and surplus of hype, that means that their marketing scheme is reliant solely on hype. It should be noted that nearly every time in the past this has happened, it has been bad for the game.
Now is the time to show what you have to get more sales in the eyes of the marketing team. If they are not showing anything, what does that say about the end result?
Its funny that you can pretty much tell what side of the fence a person here is on based on what they think of Aventurines marketing strategy. The trolls point out that theyve not done nearly enough and thats the sign of something bad. The fans on the other hand have about 100 different reasons why its the right way to have done it, everything from advertising is bad for the game to, they wanted to use money otherwise spent on marketing to improve the game itself.
I'd actually love for the game to succeed, being an avid MMO player and loving PvP.
I'm just being realistic.
Let me ask you all a question. If you were head of the marketing team for Darkfall, what would you be doing right now?
If it was me, I would be providing information to show that everything we claimed and promised in the release is true. I would be showing the players the small features of the game that have not been seen yet. I would be showing them some examples of the more graphic-intense or "prettier" areas, I would be showing the PvP players things they are going to have in Darkfall that they will not find anywhere else. Especially with all the doubt going on in the community, I would be doing my part to clear that up.
I would be providing beta updates of everything that is going on, what has recently been worked on and finished. I would show the players the current state of the game.
What would YOU do?
I can guarantee that your answer would not include -
A) Saying things such as "we dont care about the negative things players have to say about us - we have tough skin"
Saying in an interview "We're not going to sink development resources into traditional marketing before Darkfall is out."
C) Sitting and waiting patiently until the game comes out, not addressing the problem that all the doubters of the game are potential customers
Do you really think it is just a coincidence that they are not doing any of the things that traditional MMO developers are doing?
Do you really think it is a coincidence that they are not doing any of the things I listed as what I would do if it was me marking the game?
Are they doing the things you said that YOU would do if you were marketing the game?
Do you really think "not sinking development resources in to marketing" is a choice they made becasue they dont WANT marketing? This is the sinker here... Take the biggest movie of the year "The Dark Knight" for example. Did you see them say "we have enough of a following - we arent going to bother marketing before the movie is out, we'll wait until its out". OF COURSE NOT! The developers are here to make money. ANY TIME that ANY DEVELOPER claims that they are doing something that results in them making LESS MONEY in the end - it is not true. They are doing this to make money and dont fool yourself in to thinking it is anything else. Not putting resources in to marketing was not because "the game doesnt need it" - it is because they dont have the resources to sink in to it in the first place.
The same reason they did not delay the game, and instead remove features to make the release date.
Anyway, I've tried to bring the little things to everyones attention. If you are still justifying their actions, then you are being ignorant of the information right in front of you.
I'd love to be proven wrong, and I seen someone say earlier would you admit to being wrong if you are - and I would be the first one to admit it. But I doubt I will be, because there is a legitimate reason for doubt. Right now it would be the marketing teams first priority to get rid of that doubt - something that they have not been working on and that they claim "they are not going to sink resources in to until the game is out".
That line right there is just too fishy - "we are not going to sink resources until the game is out" - the phrase it sounds like they meant to say is "we wont have the resources to sink in to marketing until the game is out". That is what happens in most MMO releases anyway - the alarming thing here is that they are trying to act like this is not the case. Developers not being honest with their consumers has been one of the leading problems that causes players to leave MMO's lately.
Originally posted by singsofdeath o.O Yeah....right.
Like you people calling anyone who has been "skeptic" of the game in the past but then expressing happiness about a release date a hypocrite and a shizo. Like people smashing down any kind of discussion about possible problems come launch and/or discussions about the reasons why certain things are being done in a certain way.
Riiiiiiiiight. That's totally just being excited and happy. I get it now.
Where? So me.
I can't remember any time that a skeptic said he was happy about the release date and got flamed.
And give me a fucking break, if you count threads like daccans as a normal discussion about problems with launch etc, then you must have a bit of a reading problem. As for the normal threads, I don't recall anyone flaming in there either. Or are you believe that objecting to those is smashing them down?
Originally posted by singsofdeath o.O Yeah....right.
Like you people calling anyone who has been "skeptic" of the game in the past but then expressing happiness about a release date a hypocrite and a shizo. Like people smashing down any kind of discussion about possible problems come launch and/or discussions about the reasons why certain things are being done in a certain way.
Riiiiiiiiight. That's totally just being excited and happy. I get it now.
Where? So me.
I can't remember any time that a skeptic said he was happy about the release date and got flamed.
And give me a fucking break, if you count threads like daccans as a normal discussion about problems with launch etc, then you must have a bit of a reading problem. As for the normal threads, I don't recall anyone flaming in there either. Or are you believe that objecting to those is smashing them down?
That's your problem right there. Because most of the "fans" of this game readily jump on any kind of criticism, but when rational discussion is being put forward, those kind of things get less and less replies. It's so much easier bashing on troll and hate-posts than actually discussing things.
Both sides in this "conflict" are equally to blame for the state of the DF boards here. Rational discussion and critical view of things is not encouraged, it is left rotting by the road in favor of flaming the next fanatic/hater.
Again, my whole point was that Darkfall fans really go far too overboard and are setting themselves up for disappointment.
So what?
What do we have to loose when we don`t have a mmo at all?
Fine, we might get dissapointed over a mmo again, we have all been there (wow, AoC, war). But right now we are happy as a child waiting for christmas.
Why walk through life worrying about stuff we have no control over anyway. We DF fans have had a blast the last months, and yes we get hyped up. But I can`t see whats wrong with having some expectation about an upcoming mmo.
We know they have made similar games 10 years ago, so why shouldn`t they be able to make them now? It`s not some new stuff Aventurine are making, it`s old with a little polish.
Arcken, you are a troll. At least accept it like the others, and retain some dignity.
You want to argue that you're not a troll, just skeptical? Well, you can be skeptical AND a troll, I'm afraid. It's not exactly a hard criteria to fill, troll-hood;
1. You post nothing but negativity on a specific topic, usually for attention.
2. No wait, that's it.
You are always negative about Darkfall. You are a troll. Simple fact. Whether you believe that negativity is founded is entirely irrelevant.
Saying 'I am interested in Darkfall and want to play it, I'm just certain it will fail' isn't being positive, by the way. It's just egotistical and trolling, the equivalent of saying 'I'm friendly and thoughtful, I just have to insult everyone because they're so stupid all the time'.
If I were going to call people 'creepy' because of what they post on internet forums, I'd start with the people posting negative things for attention, not those posting positive things. You're the same as the child who purposely misbehaves to get attention from his parents.
Only you're an adult.
Creepy.
EDIT
Leave the fanbois have their fun. It migh only last for 46 days.
Ooh ooh, see Arcken? This is an example of posting skepticism without trolling! The 'might' makes it neutral. He isn't trying to say the game will suck, like you do.
Originally posted by SpyridonZ This is the sinker here... Take the biggest movie of the year "The Dark Knight" for example.
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
Originally posted by SpyridonZ This is the sinker here... Take the biggest movie of the year "The Dark Knight" for example.
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
Deep Throat is still the most profitable movie ever made isnt it?
Seeing as the emotions start to bubble and boil with release nearing, I'll keep posting here to a minimum. It's not worth it, seeing that there is more interested in across-the-board head-bashing, on both sides, than there is in actual communication.
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
I'll hold Tasos to his word. On the 22nd of January, I will expect to get a game that is completely ready for release, moreso than any other game out there, has all the features that were promised (I'm "nice" enough to ignore that their website still states more features than actually will be in), -AND- will run smoothly in any kind of situation (100v100 (or 200v200) at 60 FPS). This is what has been promised, nothing more, nothing less. I'd toss in the free trial thing, but IIRC that actually hasn't been -promised- per se. Unless you count the fact that Tasos said they want everyone to be able to try the game before they buy it. I'll count an Open-Beta (non restricted) as a Free trial.
Originally posted by SpyridonZ This is the sinker here... Take the biggest movie of the year "The Dark Knight" for example.
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
How good of a product it is in the end was not my point - I made no claims as to how good of a movie Dark Knight is.
My point was, the marketers job is to find the best method to make as much money as possible.
Just because they have a big following and alot of hype, does not mean that they could not make more money with marketing.
Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so.
As I already said (in slightly different words) if a developer is claiming that their maketing is making a choice that will result in LESS money, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. That is not a choice they would make unless it was the only option.
This hurts the credibility, and makes it hard to believe many of the other claims they have made in the interviews.
BTW, Jan 22nd release is for the EU version only. NA does not have a date yet - I dont think many people have realized that. Take that for what it is worth.
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Arcken, you are a troll. At least accept it like the others, and retain some dignity. You want to argue that you're not a troll, just skeptical? Well, you can be skeptical AND a troll, I'm afraid. It's not exactly a hard criteria to fill, troll-hood; 1. You post nothing but negativity on a specific topic, usually for attention. 2. No wait, that's it. You are always negative about Darkfall. You are a troll. Simple fact. Whether you believe that negativity is founded is entirely irrelevant. Saying 'I am interested in Darkfall and want to play it, I'm just certain it will fail' isn't being positive, by the way. It's just egotistical and trolling, the equivalent of saying 'I'm friendly and thoughtful, I just have to insult everyone because they're so stupid all the time'. If I were going to call people 'creepy' because of what they post on internet forums, I'd start with the people posting negative things for attention, not those posting positive things. You're the same as the child who purposely misbehaves to get attention from his parents. Only you're an adult. Creepy.
EDIT Leave the fanbois have their fun. It migh only last for 46 days.
Ooh ooh, see Arcken? This is an example of posting skepticism without trolling! The 'might' makes it neutral. He isn't trying to say the game will suck, like you do. See the difference?
To be fair, Im a fairly negative and skeptical person, its a counterbalance to my incredible sense of humor when it comes to the reality of things.
Now, lets break down this nasty piece of work into some semblance of civility.
My negativity about Darkfall is well founded, after many inferred betas and releases, combined with the fact that most hyped MMOs from more established companies have failed, I feel its better to approach Darkfall like its a grenade that may explode at anytime, killing everyones faith and hope in one fell swoop.
As for being a troll, to me its irrelevant, your opinion, or for that matter anyone elses that I dont personally know means nothing to me. Fortunately, as you get older you gain a certain confidence that affords you such liberty.
At no point have I said Darkfall will fail, I think Darkfall is going to have a very tough time of it, based on how its been handled, the company behind it having no experience, and how few people are really going to be into ffa full loot pvp.
Now if you look back at my previous posts, I didnt call anyone creepy, I simply said that the post was creepy, and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy. I even said that I find the actions and attitude of some of its fanbois to be creepy. However did I say vesuvius was creepy? No, not even after he called me on having a "weak character", even though it was just a baseless assumption.
As far as if Im the same as a child that misbehaves in a misguided attempt for attention from ones parents, Id have to disagree there too. Ive always disliked the foisting of ones beliefs, especially unsubstantiated ones. Ive never been religious, Im open to the concept of it, however I find it to be "creepy" too. Im not alone in that boat trust me. And Im not the only one paddling that boat, many times Ive seen other people commenting on how far overboard the fanbois go, to the point where the word "cult" gets thrown out there. So again I have to disagree with your assessment, its just what you choose to believe in a misguided attempt to get under my skin.
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
You really weren't taking the piss? I was being serious! I wasn't trying to imply anything. The fanboys take everything Aventurine say at face value - every feature will be in at launch and will work perfectly just how they individually imagine, Tasos says the game will be bug free so it will dammit (despite the impossibilities), etc.
Just like the fanboys of every MMO ever. That's what I thought you were taking the piss out of, sorry if I was mistaken.
I don't think you're a troll, for the record. My memory of forum personae is god-awful, but if I recall correctly you've said some positive things and your negative comments at least make sense (well, I've never seen you claim that Darkfall was made using the Torque engine, anyway).
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
You really weren't taking the piss? I was being serious! I wasn't trying to imply anything. The fanboys take everything Aventurine say at face value - every feature will be in at launch and will work perfectly just how they individually imagine, Tasos says the game will be bug free so it will dammit (despite the impossibilities), etc.
Just like the fanboys of every MMO ever. That's what I thought you were taking the piss out of, sorry if I was mistaken.
I don't think you're a troll, for the record. My memory of forum personae is god-awful, but if I recall correctly you've said some positive things and your negative comments at least make sense (well, I've never seen you claim that Darkfall was made using the Torque engine, anyway).
My apologies then if I misunderstood your post. No, I was not taking the piss out of anyone. My opinions on the game and on the whole "situation" have been stated and I stand by them.
As is, only January 22nd will be able to clear up most of the things in any case.
Originally posted by SpyridonZ How good of a product it is in the end was not my point - I made no claims as to how good of a movie Dark Knight is. My point was, the marketers job is to find the best method to make as much money as possible. Just because they have a big following and alot of hype, does not mean that they could not make more money with marketing. Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so. As I already said (in slightly different words) if a developer is claiming that their maketing is making a choice that will result in LESS money, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. That is not a choice they would make unless it was the only option. This hurts the credibility, and makes it hard to believe many of the other claims they have made in the interviews. BTW, Jan 22nd release is for the EU version only. NA does not have a date yet - I dont think many people have realized that. Take that for what it is worth.
My only concern is what my playing experience will be like.
But from the devs point of view they currently have 200,000 people registered on the forums.
"Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so."
Maybe they think that 200,000 is enough of a following, here is why:
They have no experience at launching an mmorpg. They have no pre existing customer service set up unlike Mythic and Funcom. They have no billing system. They have no existing server hardware. All of their relationships with 3rd parties are untested. They have a limited amount of money with which to provide this infrastructure.
Trying to go from 0 to 1 million customers overnight due to marketing hype would not be the way to make money in the long run, it would the fastest route to disaster. Why would they overhype a game and end up with more customers than they could reasonably deal with?
It's the same as any small enterprise, if you owned sausage factory and you were comfortable producing 1,000 packets of sausage a week why would you go around all the major supermarkets and take orders for 100,000 packets of sausages a week knowing full well that it was likely to be beyond your capability.
In the real world I would think it would be doubtful that they would be able to cope with the amount of customers that they would get if a fully fledged campaign was launched.
If it was always possible to maximise profit then products would never run out of stock at xmas for instance.
If I was in their position I would do exactly the same thing, start off at a level I felt comfortable with and then scale up. Would you or would you say fuck it and sell as many copies as possible and then not provide any customer service for it?
Comments
Iver never seen a more obvious attempt at garnering applause. Its like standing up in church and yelling "Im a (insert denomination here) Im one of you, love me!
Im sure the psychology behind this whole thing would creep me out.
Ill be sure to necro this one if Darkfall bombs, then you'll really feel sheepish.
Thats a pretty silly thing to say. If anyone should be feeling sheepish then it should be you for posting this.
The OP is simply expressing his thoughts about the game just like everyone else. Who is he supposed to be garnering applause from anyway? The Darkfall fans and other people who are looking forward to the game? If he said the complete opposite and instead stated a load of reasons why he feels the game will fail then would you have still posted your comment stating that he is garnering applause from the opposite "faction"?
Like the OP said, will you apologise if Darkfall succeeds or will you slink off and pretend you never said this. Hmmm I wonder.
Has nothing to do with Darkfall sir, I was simply pointing out that the whole post seemed rather attention garnering. And thats just creepy to me.
As for my stance, you are mistaken, Ive never said either way the game is going to suck or going to rule. All Ive ever said is that Im skeptical that theyll pull it off, I dislike the way theyve handled the game, and I dont like Tasos. My whole guild is poisod to play it, but Im skeptical of their promises, to me its far too eerily similar to DnL.
I dont have my eggs in either basket, I wont be suprised it if bombs, and Ill be pleasantly suprised if its a good game. See how that works?
Again, you ASSUME a lot of things, just like he did, just like the fanboi camp does, its like flies to shit anytime someone questions anything about Darkfall. Thanks for yet again proving that creepy is still in fashion.
You see, thats the point.
You DIDNT question anything about DF.
You went straight for the personal attack.
And then tried to make it look like we have the issues...
You see, I know you now Arcken and I see how it 'works' for you. Your one of those guys who is just negative, rude and nasty, while sitting on the fence so that he can just jump either way and say 'I told ya!' when the answer finally comes in. It's called hedging your bets, and your pretty good at it. Tbh though, all it really just shows a weakness of character, as does your need to be rude and insulting in every post.
But, don't worry, we can still be buddies!
Again, my whole point was that Darkfall fans really go far too overboard and are setting themselves up for disappointment. Again, the difference here between you and me, is Im not operating under and assumption, I think your whole OP was wierd, and its reminiscent of the way people acted about DnL. I felt the same way about them, they were acting just like the way Darkfall fans are now.
As for weakness of character, again, merely an assumption. Mine was an opinion, your post was creepy like a lot of posts I see from Darkfall fans. . I didnt say you were this or you were that, or call you any names, or say that you have weak character.
So yeah, keep sitting around the campfire with your pals singing koom bah ya, and Ill keep the more realistic approach so I dont end up looking the fool for overdoing it either way.
DF will bring revolution. 5-7 years from now, we will be inundated with free form sandbox mmo's with realism abound, promising real time combat and ffa full loot, yada, much like we have a glut of linear leveling treadmill carrot/stick mmo's today.
What i think will happen, because what Barnum says is true, there is a sucker born every minute, is that there will be 2 "classes" or "age ranges" of mmo gamers. The linear carrot stick, leveling treadmills will cater to the younger crowd, while us more sophisticated, jaded, long time mmo gamers, will crave something more, as we grow sick of the status quo.
Well, 3 I think if we build in the Hello KItty and Lego type of games, but yeah your probably very right.
I have never claimed this game will revolutionise the genre, I have only said that niche gaming is healthy, even essential, for the hobby.
I am a bit confused though by the Barnum quote... One, he didnt actually say it, his rival Hannum did, and Two, I can't see how it applies...
Iver never seen a more obvious attempt at garnering applause. Its like standing up in church and yelling "Im a (insert denomination here) love me!
Im sure the psychology behind this whole thing would creep me out.
Ill be sure to necro this one if Darkfall bombs, then you'll really feel sheepish.
hehe ok, see it as you will. It dosent matter to me
The fact that you resorted straight away to a postitive post with a personal attack tells me exactly what you are.
Oh, btw, if DF is a success then I do hope, in return, that you will come here and start a new thread saying sorry for all your rudeness and the offense that you have caused?
Or will you just slink off and hope noone remembers you?
Dont fool yourself, my post history proves Ive supported the concept of this game, and have said many times in the past that Ill play it, and hope they can pull this whole thing off. My beef is with that segment of the fans that act all wierd, in fact just like you do, over a video game. Two, I think theyre a little nutso for the way theyve handled it, but Ill forgive if they deliver. And finally, Tasos himself, I just think the guys a jerk, and you can tell hes never held a position like the one hes currently in, fire him already, there are far more qualified people to speak for Aventurine. That is all, keep up the worship.
From an OP who was neutral till just now, You are confusing worship with support. I beleive you are trying too hard to read into OP, you have NO idea what his motives or intent is, so why are you guessing.
Arcken I have seen posts by you completely contradicting what you are saying now, you've said almost exactly what I am saying to you right now about reading too far into other people, yet you make this same mistake, HOW?
I dont think OP is trying to get attention in any way, well, "Arent we all to an extent, thats what the "REPLY BUTTON" was invented for". But I think OP posted specificly to share his views, and he successfully did so, I dont see a single problem with that, yet you where pretty nasty, dont try to play naive.
I actually said after reading that, I dont want to know what his motives were. This sort of support needs to be out there AFTER the game is out, not before, not when its just blind faith and good intentions. I think its its nuts to set yourself up for a fall like that without full on proof first.
And yeah, still a little wierd that someone would specifically start a thread whose whole purpose is to say look at me Ive converted without solid proof! Sorry but I find it creepy that someone suddenly joined the club that is based on blind faith because now he suddenly believes in what hasnt been proven. And if that wasnt strange enough, he wants to come here and shout it from the roof tops?
I think, the more -sophisticated- among us, will pick a game that they enjoy, regardless of what quasi-stereotype certain fanatics attach to different types of MMO's. And those who are caught up in the illusion that playing a certain type of game makes you more sophisticated than other people will continue to bicker and complain about the lack of good games.
Meanwhile, the -sophisticated- people will enjoy playing wherever they enjoy themselves. Be that linear, sandbox or FPS games. ^^
Just my thought on this particular idea.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
No it isn't. It's either real or it isn't.
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Subjective
"Placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."
Not superstition.
"Any blindly accepted belief or notion "
Which is what you're mixing it up with. But don't let me stop you , please do carry on.
I think, the more -sophisticated- among us, will pick a game that they enjoy, regardless of what quasi-stereotype certain fanatics attach to different types of MMO's. And those who are caught up in the illusion that playing a certain type of game makes you more sophisticated than other people will continue to bicker and complain about the lack of good games.
Meanwhile, the -sophisticated- people will enjoy playing wherever they enjoy themselves. Be that linear, sandbox or FPS games. ^^
Just my thought on this particular idea.
I agree to an extent, now has never been a better time to jump on the DF bandwaggon. But I can also see why people still speculate on this issue. I just wish those who speculate so strongly werent so deffensive of it calling fanbois ect stupid. Everyone who wanted to could have gotton plenty of proof about DF at the athens digital if they wanted to.
And no im not talking about Arcken, he is a moderate speculator/supportor, somewhat of a limbo. I am talking about those nutzos with half eaten brains which takes up about a quarter of the speculator population.
No it isn't. It's either real or it isn't.
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Subjective
"Placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric."
Not superstition.
"Any blindly accepted belief or notion "
Which is what you're mixing it up with. But don't let me stop you , please do carry on.
Actually, 'subjective' has a few meanings, I meant this one;
"existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective )."
Seriously, this is sad. People are getting excited on about a game that they've been waiting for some years, on their own forums in this here site, and that is bad? I don't understand you people. Troll sometimes is too light to describe you.
Seriously, this is sad. People are getting excited on about a game that they've been waiting for some years, on their own forums in this here site, and that is bad? I don't understand you people. Troll sometimes is too light to describe you.
o.O Yeah....right.
Like you people calling anyone who has been "skeptic" of the game in the past but then expressing happiness about a release date a hypocrite and a shizo. Like people smashing down any kind of discussion about possible problems come launch and/or discussions about the reasons why certain things are being done in a certain way.
Riiiiiiiiight. That's totally just being excited and happy. I get it now.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Fixed.
Oh stop that garbage already, that little joke isnt funny, and it wasnt funny in the first place.
It's not supposed to be funny, it's a fact.
It doesn't matter if there is a lot of information or no information, it has no bearing on the end result.
This is not true.
This is a business where the developers are trying to get sales. That is why EVERY game developer releases more and more information about the game up until the release - to get more players ready to buy the game.
If there is a lack of information, and surplus of hype, that means that their marketing scheme is reliant solely on hype. It should be noted that nearly every time in the past this has happened, it has been bad for the game.
Now is the time to show what you have to get more sales in the eyes of the marketing team. If they are not showing anything, what does that say about the end result?
Its funny that you can pretty much tell what side of the fence a person here is on based on what they think of Aventurines marketing strategy. The trolls point out that theyve not done nearly enough and thats the sign of something bad. The fans on the other hand have about 100 different reasons why its the right way to have done it, everything from advertising is bad for the game to, they wanted to use money otherwise spent on marketing to improve the game itself.
I'd actually love for the game to succeed, being an avid MMO player and loving PvP.
I'm just being realistic.
Let me ask you all a question. If you were head of the marketing team for Darkfall, what would you be doing right now?
If it was me, I would be providing information to show that everything we claimed and promised in the release is true. I would be showing the players the small features of the game that have not been seen yet. I would be showing them some examples of the more graphic-intense or "prettier" areas, I would be showing the PvP players things they are going to have in Darkfall that they will not find anywhere else. Especially with all the doubt going on in the community, I would be doing my part to clear that up.
I would be providing beta updates of everything that is going on, what has recently been worked on and finished. I would show the players the current state of the game.
What would YOU do?
I can guarantee that your answer would not include -
A) Saying things such as "we dont care about the negative things players have to say about us - we have tough skin"
C) Sitting and waiting patiently until the game comes out, not addressing the problem that all the doubters of the game are potential customers
Do you really think it is just a coincidence that they are not doing any of the things that traditional MMO developers are doing?
Do you really think it is a coincidence that they are not doing any of the things I listed as what I would do if it was me marking the game?
Are they doing the things you said that YOU would do if you were marketing the game?
Do you really think "not sinking development resources in to marketing" is a choice they made becasue they dont WANT marketing? This is the sinker here... Take the biggest movie of the year "The Dark Knight" for example. Did you see them say "we have enough of a following - we arent going to bother marketing before the movie is out, we'll wait until its out". OF COURSE NOT! The developers are here to make money. ANY TIME that ANY DEVELOPER claims that they are doing something that results in them making LESS MONEY in the end - it is not true. They are doing this to make money and dont fool yourself in to thinking it is anything else. Not putting resources in to marketing was not because "the game doesnt need it" - it is because they dont have the resources to sink in to it in the first place.
The same reason they did not delay the game, and instead remove features to make the release date.
Anyway, I've tried to bring the little things to everyones attention. If you are still justifying their actions, then you are being ignorant of the information right in front of you.
I'd love to be proven wrong, and I seen someone say earlier would you admit to being wrong if you are - and I would be the first one to admit it. But I doubt I will be, because there is a legitimate reason for doubt. Right now it would be the marketing teams first priority to get rid of that doubt - something that they have not been working on and that they claim "they are not going to sink resources in to until the game is out".
That line right there is just too fishy - "we are not going to sink resources until the game is out" - the phrase it sounds like they meant to say is "we wont have the resources to sink in to marketing until the game is out". That is what happens in most MMO releases anyway - the alarming thing here is that they are trying to act like this is not the case. Developers not being honest with their consumers has been one of the leading problems that causes players to leave MMO's lately.
Where? So me.
I can't remember any time that a skeptic said he was happy about the release date and got flamed.
And give me a fucking break, if you count threads like daccans as a normal discussion about problems with launch etc, then you must have a bit of a reading problem. As for the normal threads, I don't recall anyone flaming in there either. Or are you believe that objecting to those is smashing them down?
Where? So me.
I can't remember any time that a skeptic said he was happy about the release date and got flamed.
And give me a fucking break, if you count threads like daccans as a normal discussion about problems with launch etc, then you must have a bit of a reading problem. As for the normal threads, I don't recall anyone flaming in there either. Or are you believe that objecting to those is smashing them down?
That's your problem right there. Because most of the "fans" of this game readily jump on any kind of criticism, but when rational discussion is being put forward, those kind of things get less and less replies. It's so much easier bashing on troll and hate-posts than actually discussing things.
Both sides in this "conflict" are equally to blame for the state of the DF boards here. Rational discussion and critical view of things is not encouraged, it is left rotting by the road in favor of flaming the next fanatic/hater.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
So what?
What do we have to loose when we don`t have a mmo at all?
Fine, we might get dissapointed over a mmo again, we have all been there (wow, AoC, war). But right now we are happy as a child waiting for christmas.
Why walk through life worrying about stuff we have no control over anyway. We DF fans have had a blast the last months, and yes we get hyped up. But I can`t see whats wrong with having some expectation about an upcoming mmo.
We know they have made similar games 10 years ago, so why shouldn`t they be able to make them now? It`s not some new stuff Aventurine are making, it`s old with a little polish.
Arcken, you are a troll. At least accept it like the others, and retain some dignity.
You want to argue that you're not a troll, just skeptical? Well, you can be skeptical AND a troll, I'm afraid. It's not exactly a hard criteria to fill, troll-hood;
1. You post nothing but negativity on a specific topic, usually for attention.
2. No wait, that's it.
You are always negative about Darkfall. You are a troll. Simple fact. Whether you believe that negativity is founded is entirely irrelevant.
Saying 'I am interested in Darkfall and want to play it, I'm just certain it will fail' isn't being positive, by the way. It's just egotistical and trolling, the equivalent of saying 'I'm friendly and thoughtful, I just have to insult everyone because they're so stupid all the time'.
If I were going to call people 'creepy' because of what they post on internet forums, I'd start with the people posting negative things for attention, not those posting positive things. You're the same as the child who purposely misbehaves to get attention from his parents.
Only you're an adult.
Creepy.
EDIT
Leave the fanbois have their fun. It migh only last for 46 days.
Ooh ooh, see Arcken? This is an example of posting skepticism without trolling! The 'might' makes it neutral. He isn't trying to say the game will suck, like you do.
See the difference?
Leave the fanbois have their fun. It migh only last for 46 days.
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
Deep Throat is still the most profitable movie ever made isnt it?
Needless to say, I agree
Seeing as the emotions start to bubble and boil with release nearing, I'll keep posting here to a minimum. It's not worth it, seeing that there is more interested in across-the-board head-bashing, on both sides, than there is in actual communication.
I'm going to assume the game will come out Jan. 22nd. I'm also going to assume there will be a Free Trial. Furthermore, I am going to assume that I was not lied to in any shape or form during these last months and won't be lied to in the coming months (regarding official statement). I've stated my concerns and my problems often enough, they are still valid in my eyes.
I'll hold Tasos to his word. On the 22nd of January, I will expect to get a game that is completely ready for release, moreso than any other game out there, has all the features that were promised (I'm "nice" enough to ignore that their website still states more features than actually will be in), -AND- will run smoothly in any kind of situation (100v100 (or 200v200) at 60 FPS). This is what has been promised, nothing more, nothing less. I'd toss in the free trial thing, but IIRC that actually hasn't been -promised- per se. Unless you count the fact that Tasos said they want everyone to be able to try the game before they buy it. I'll count an Open-Beta (non restricted) as a Free trial.
So, see you all when we get there. ^_^
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The problem with this is that "The Dark Knight" may have been the biggest movie of the year but it was far from the best movie of year. The best movie of the year, in my opinion, had a tiny fraction of the marketing budget of The Dark Knight. I do not judge things based on how much profit they produce, neither do most other people with any kind of discerning taste.
How good of a product it is in the end was not my point - I made no claims as to how good of a movie Dark Knight is.
My point was, the marketers job is to find the best method to make as much money as possible.
Just because they have a big following and alot of hype, does not mean that they could not make more money with marketing.
Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so.
As I already said (in slightly different words) if a developer is claiming that their maketing is making a choice that will result in LESS money, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. That is not a choice they would make unless it was the only option.
This hurts the credibility, and makes it hard to believe many of the other claims they have made in the interviews.
BTW, Jan 22nd release is for the EU version only. NA does not have a date yet - I dont think many people have realized that. Take that for what it is worth.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
To be fair, Im a fairly negative and skeptical person, its a counterbalance to my incredible sense of humor when it comes to the reality of things.
Now, lets break down this nasty piece of work into some semblance of civility.
My negativity about Darkfall is well founded, after many inferred betas and releases, combined with the fact that most hyped MMOs from more established companies have failed, I feel its better to approach Darkfall like its a grenade that may explode at anytime, killing everyones faith and hope in one fell swoop.
As for being a troll, to me its irrelevant, your opinion, or for that matter anyone elses that I dont personally know means nothing to me. Fortunately, as you get older you gain a certain confidence that affords you such liberty.
At no point have I said Darkfall will fail, I think Darkfall is going to have a very tough time of it, based on how its been handled, the company behind it having no experience, and how few people are really going to be into ffa full loot pvp.
Now if you look back at my previous posts, I didnt call anyone creepy, I simply said that the post was creepy, and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy. I even said that I find the actions and attitude of some of its fanbois to be creepy. However did I say vesuvius was creepy? No, not even after he called me on having a "weak character", even though it was just a baseless assumption.
As far as if Im the same as a child that misbehaves in a misguided attempt for attention from ones parents, Id have to disagree there too. Ive always disliked the foisting of ones beliefs, especially unsubstantiated ones. Ive never been religious, Im open to the concept of it, however I find it to be "creepy" too. Im not alone in that boat trust me. And Im not the only one paddling that boat, many times Ive seen other people commenting on how far overboard the fanbois go, to the point where the word "cult" gets thrown out there. So again I have to disagree with your assessment, its just what you choose to believe in a misguided attempt to get under my skin.
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
You really weren't taking the piss? I was being serious! I wasn't trying to imply anything. The fanboys take everything Aventurine say at face value - every feature will be in at launch and will work perfectly just how they individually imagine, Tasos says the game will be bug free so it will dammit (despite the impossibilities), etc.
Just like the fanboys of every MMO ever. That's what I thought you were taking the piss out of, sorry if I was mistaken.
I don't think you're a troll, for the record. My memory of forum personae is god-awful, but if I recall correctly you've said some positive things and your negative comments at least make sense (well, I've never seen you claim that Darkfall was made using the Torque engine, anyway).
So you want Aventurine to act differently from every MMO developer in the last decade?
Oh right, you were taking the piss out of the (we?) fanboys. Carry on!
Since Aventurine has repeatedly stated they are doing things differently, yes, I expect them to do that. I assuzme they have not lied to us and are -better- than all the other Developers out there. That's what people claim, that's what they want us to believe so this is the standard they have to measure up to.
I was not taking the "piss" out of anyone. I was writing my expectations come launch. Are we at a point where everything just gets flamed on for the heck of it? Good job of representing the DF Followers sir, I salute you.
But then again, this is exactly why I said I'd cut down on posting for a while. Heated emotions, overzealous posting, accusation and head-bashing left and right. Thank you for proving my point.
You really weren't taking the piss? I was being serious! I wasn't trying to imply anything. The fanboys take everything Aventurine say at face value - every feature will be in at launch and will work perfectly just how they individually imagine, Tasos says the game will be bug free so it will dammit (despite the impossibilities), etc.
Just like the fanboys of every MMO ever. That's what I thought you were taking the piss out of, sorry if I was mistaken.
I don't think you're a troll, for the record. My memory of forum personae is god-awful, but if I recall correctly you've said some positive things and your negative comments at least make sense (well, I've never seen you claim that Darkfall was made using the Torque engine, anyway).
My apologies then if I misunderstood your post. No, I was not taking the piss out of anyone. My opinions on the game and on the whole "situation" have been stated and I stand by them.
As is, only January 22nd will be able to clear up most of the things in any case.
Again, sorry for misunderstanding you.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My only concern is what my playing experience will be like.
But from the devs point of view they currently have 200,000 people registered on the forums.
"Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so."
Maybe they think that 200,000 is enough of a following, here is why:
They have no experience at launching an mmorpg. They have no pre existing customer service set up unlike Mythic and Funcom. They have no billing system. They have no existing server hardware. All of their relationships with 3rd parties are untested. They have a limited amount of money with which to provide this infrastructure.
Trying to go from 0 to 1 million customers overnight due to marketing hype would not be the way to make money in the long run, it would the fastest route to disaster. Why would they overhype a game and end up with more customers than they could reasonably deal with?
It's the same as any small enterprise, if you owned sausage factory and you were comfortable producing 1,000 packets of sausage a week why would you go around all the major supermarkets and take orders for 100,000 packets of sausages a week knowing full well that it was likely to be beyond your capability.
In the real world I would think it would be doubtful that they would be able to cope with the amount of customers that they would get if a fully fledged campaign was launched.
If it was always possible to maximise profit then products would never run out of stock at xmas for instance.
If I was in their position I would do exactly the same thing, start off at a level I felt comfortable with and then scale up. Would you or would you say fuck it and sell as many copies as possible and then not provide any customer service for it?