Originally posted by Arcken 1. ...My negativity about Darkfall is well founded, after many inferred betas and releases... 2. ...Now if you look back at my previous posts, I didnt call anyone creepy, I simply said that the post was creepy, and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy...
I'm just picking out these two points, as the rest of it read as 'nuh uh!' and damage control.
1. I count lying as negativity as well. The game promised beta once before now, and this is the first time release has been announced.
Unless you want to count the release date being pushed back from December 2008 to Jan 2009 as two seperate release dates?
To counter what I predict will be your next argument - they've 'hoped' to release beta/the game constantly, yes. They've been in a constant state of 'hoping' for 7 years.
If you want to imply that 'we hope to release sometime soon(tm) possibly perhaps maybe if things go well' was an inferred release date, I would say that a release date, inferred or not, contains an actual date. It's sort of a requirement.
2. You didn't call him creepy, you just called his post creepy and found his motive creepy?
Seriously, did you read that before you hit the 'post message' button?
Originally posted by Arcken 1. ...My negativity about Darkfall is well founded, after many inferred betas and releases... 2. ...Now if you look back at my previous posts, I didnt call anyone creepy, I simply said that the post was creepy, and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy...
I'm just picking out these two points, as the rest of it read as 'nuh uh!' and damage control.
1. I count lying as negativity as well. The game promised beta once before now, and this is the first time release has been announced.
Unless you want to count the release date being pushed back from December 2008 to Jan 2009 as two seperate release dates?
To counter what I predict will be your next argument - they've 'hoped' to release beta/the game constantly, yes. They've been in a constant state of 'hoping' for 7 years.
If you want to imply that 'we hope to release sometime soon(tm) possibly perhaps maybe if things go well' was an inferred release date, I would say that a release date, inferred or not, contains an actual date. It's sort of a requirement.
2. You didn't call him creepy, you just called his post creepy and found his motive creepy?
Seriously, did you read that before you hit the 'post message' button?
lol good point, arcken has flip flopped a lot and never really takes a stance btw. he seems to want to not be "proven wrong" as if anyone actually will remember his name after the game releases.
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
Arcken, you are a troll. At least accept it like the others, and retain some dignity. You want to argue that you're not a troll, just skeptical? Well, you can be skeptical AND a troll, I'm afraid. It's not exactly a hard criteria to fill, troll-hood; 1. You post nothing but negativity on a specific topic, usually for attention. 2. No wait, that's it. You are always negative about Darkfall. You are a troll. Simple fact. Whether you believe that negativity is founded is entirely irrelevant. Saying 'I am interested in Darkfall and want to play it, I'm just certain it will fail' isn't being positive, by the way. It's just egotistical and trolling, the equivalent of saying 'I'm friendly and thoughtful, I just have to insult everyone because they're so stupid all the time'. If I were going to call people 'creepy' because of what they post on internet forums, I'd start with the people posting negative things for attention, not those posting positive things. You're the same as the child who purposely misbehaves to get attention from his parents. Only you're an adult. Creepy.
EDIT Leave the fanbois have their fun. It migh only last for 46 days.
Ooh ooh, see Arcken? This is an example of posting skepticism without trolling! The 'might' makes it neutral. He isn't trying to say the game will suck, like you do. See the difference?
To be fair, Im a fairly negative and skeptical person,
Yep, I think most of us here get that heh.
its a counterbalance to my incredible sense of humor when it comes to the reality of things.
Hrm, ok...
I have only seen the one side of you in any post I have read though, and it's the very negative and skeptical one.
You may wanna work on showing more of your 'incredible sense of humour' to counterbalance your negative and skeptical side here?
It would give us all a break.
Now, lets break down this nasty piece of work into some semblance of civility.
My negativity about Darkfall is well founded,
You see, my point has always been here is that you didnt even want to talk about DF. I did, you didnt.
You wanted to talk about my post being 'creepy', and you questioned it's motivation as being creepy, again inferring I did it for some kind of creepy need for love or acceptance...
In short, you ignored the game, and went for me.
THIS is why I said you had a weak character, and to be honest being constantly negative while sitting on the fence (in case things work out against you) is the definition of a weak character, NOT because you said anything about the game.
Because you didnt.
As for being a troll, to me its irrelevant, your opinion.
Yep, I get this.
I get the feeling that most people's opinions are irrelevant to you, based on what you post and how you phrase it.
Now if you look back at my previous posts...
ok...
I didnt call anyone creepy
ok...
I simply said that the post was creepy
er...
and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy.
ah!
I even said that I find the actions and attitude of some of its fanbois to be creepy. However did I say vesuvius was creepy?
So... The post was creepy, as was my motive and reasoning for posting it, but you are claiming you didnt call me anything?
c'mon... lol
This is sooo typical of how you post. At least have the conviction to stand behind your words. This is what I mean by a weak character. Your so slippery lol... It's all hedge sitting and word twisting with you isnt it?
No, not even after he called me on having a "weak character", even though it was just a baseless assumption.
No, an assumption based on your wriggly worm posts, that try and be as nasty and rude as possible, while still always leaving an escape hatch, because you havent the strength of conviction to make a defined stand on anything.
All you want is a fight. One that you can slime out of if you are losing.
I called you as I saw you, based on your words. They are my base for opinion of you.
As far as if Im the same as a child that misbehaves.... /snip
...Mainly 'cause your oily wriggling gives me a headache.
I think we are done now though.
As far as I am concerned you have come into a postive thread, made personal attacks and been generally rude, tried to blame it on others, and then re-invent what was said to make yourself look like the hero.
Well, good for you. I will even give you the (inevitable) last word. People can read what was written by me and written by you and make up their own minds, if they want to.
You would think would realise that 3rd party previews are meaningless, look at the previews that aoc and war got. Really if you trust information from these websites you have a lot to learn and are far less savvy than you think you are. The only way to asess a game is by playing it.
Actually, it's not about being savvy or assessing how good a game is. Rather, I see mainstream media reviews as a form of validation. Let's be honest. A large portion of the people on these boards didn't even believe the game was real prior to the last few months. A large portion is still very doubtful that the game promised is the game we'll get. A few real previews from reputable sources would go a long way towards fixing that and solidifying the game in a lot of players' minds.
Anywho, I do hope the game is a success. If it is, I'll be giving it a go myself. Again, January will be a telling month.
Originally posted by Deathstrike2 Actually, it's not about being savvy or assessing how good a game is. Rather, I see mainstream media reviews as a form of validation. Let's be honest. A large portion of the people on these boards didn't even believe the game was real prior to the last few months. A large portion is still very doubtful that the game promised is the game we'll get. A few real previews from reputable sources would go a long way towards fixing that and solidifying the game in a lot of players' minds. Anywho, I do hope the game is a success. If it is, I'll be giving it a go myself. Again, January will be a telling month.
Are these the same sources that encouraged hundreds of thousands of people to buy AoC in the knowledge that it had working end game sieges or that in WAR war was everywhere? These sources are just circle jerking to increase profits for all concerned as far as I can see. There is no such thing as a reputable source, except maybe print media newspapers / magazines which have a gaming section which isn't the type of media people are asking for. People want to see DF reported on sites like gamespot because they think that it makes it more legitimate even though that is where they got hit with the sucker punch only a few months ago, how short people's memories are hehe.
Actually, I hope Darkfall does well... I just dont expect it to = If there is one thing that has been learned from all the MMO releases, it is that when an MMO developer announces a release date, and there is still a lack of coverage and information about the game, it is never a good sign. As of recent I seen the same thing happen with WAR. WAR - everyone on here was swearing it would be the best game ever. Yet I made sure to let everyone know - if they go in to the game expecting that, they will be dissapointed. The first sign of success of WAR was when open beta started a month before release, and all the hype about how when a game is confident of what they have to offer they up the NDA and start open beta a month in advance. Yet they did not tell you that this test only shows the state of the game in low levels, much the same as AoC did. Now here we are 2 months later - and although they are patching at a very fast rate for an MMO, people are still unhappy. They have seen all the game has to offer - which is inevitable with a newly released game. Back to Darkfall... the open beta isnt even dated yet and its approaching that same 1 month mark. Assuming it started today even... we would not have time for people to see the real game. That wont happen till after release - same as with every other MMO release. Inevitably, people will be dissapointed by the amount of content the game offers as well. People complain that WAR is unfinished... in the state of MMO's at release, WAR was better then most. It actually was more finished and less buggy then pretty much all MMO's. But another thing people dont realize, is that the first 6 months to a year of an MMO release is a survival game. Take the best MMO's out now - all those games were crap for the first 6 months to year. Yes, even games like WoW. Now considering both aspects - the first 6 months (survival game) and what things look like after 6 months.... Given the amount of scenes, mechanics, content, etc, I think it would be foolish to believe that they have more to offer then the most recent release - WAR. In comparison, we had much, much more information about WAR then we do about Darkfall at this point. Also theres the over-confident Dev issue, that I have last seen only in AoC and Hellgate, which is also worrysome. With the little bit they showed us, do you really think they are going to have enough content to keep you playing for 1 month? 2 month? 6 months? I've seen some say "just because they havent showed us, doesnt mean they dont have anything to show" - well thats somewhat true, but you have to understand, this is a game industry. They are running a business. They want to get sales. Providing little information about your product does not gain sales UNLESS if the information they recieve would hurt the sales even more. At this point, if they had something that would entice players to increase their chance of purchase, now would be the time they let the cat out of the bag. That should worry all of the people who hope the game succeeds (including myself) I would love to be proven wrong, but when common sense implies that things are not on the up and up, they typically arent.
1.) This is a sandbox MMO. There is no endgame. The game is what the players make it. There is no way to rush to the endgame. You can go anywhere you choose at anytime . . . and succeed if you are good. You won't have to rush through the grind to get to the endgame and then raid for years on end.
2.) Seing as how there is no mandatory questing . . . that should lower alot of bugs, and people won't cry because they lvled faster than the devs could finsih adding content.
3.) AV has had professional testing being done for awhile now. The way I think it was done was whenever new things where added, the pro testers played it thouroughly making ure the kinks where out. It was a kind of rolling testing that was going on.
4.) They are not going for the WoW kill. They are making a niche game, and they know it. 200k subscribers is a pretty good number to start, no? Especially for an indie company . . . start small and work your way up. You don't see a mom and pop restaurant chain open up 500 stores across the USA to start off with. They open one or two locally, then expand from there. That is smart business.
5.) Lack of info does not mean failure. In fact . . . seeing recent trend . . . over information means failure. i.e. WAR/AOC.
6.) Things being cut does not mean failure. The devs have stated that the two things that were cut could not be worked into the mechanics. And this was stated a long while back . . . not right before open beta . . . heck . . . not even right before closed beta.
Actually, I hope Darkfall does well... I just dont expect it to = If there is one thing that has been learned from all the MMO releases, it is that when an MMO developer announces a release date, and there is still a lack of coverage and information about the game, it is never a good sign. As of recent I seen the same thing happen with WAR. WAR - everyone on here was swearing it would be the best game ever. Yet I made sure to let everyone know - if they go in to the game expecting that, they will be dissapointed. The first sign of success of WAR was when open beta started a month before release, and all the hype about how when a game is confident of what they have to offer they up the NDA and start open beta a month in advance. Yet they did not tell you that this test only shows the state of the game in low levels, much the same as AoC did. Now here we are 2 months later - and although they are patching at a very fast rate for an MMO, people are still unhappy. They have seen all the game has to offer - which is inevitable with a newly released game. Back to Darkfall... the open beta isnt even dated yet and its approaching that same 1 month mark. Assuming it started today even... we would not have time for people to see the real game. That wont happen till after release - same as with every other MMO release. Inevitably, people will be dissapointed by the amount of content the game offers as well. People complain that WAR is unfinished... in the state of MMO's at release, WAR was better then most. It actually was more finished and less buggy then pretty much all MMO's. But another thing people dont realize, is that the first 6 months to a year of an MMO release is a survival game. Take the best MMO's out now - all those games were crap for the first 6 months to year. Yes, even games like WoW. Now considering both aspects - the first 6 months (survival game) and what things look like after 6 months.... Given the amount of scenes, mechanics, content, etc, I think it would be foolish to believe that they have more to offer then the most recent release - WAR. In comparison, we had much, much more information about WAR then we do about Darkfall at this point. Also theres the over-confident Dev issue, that I have last seen only in AoC and Hellgate, which is also worrysome. With the little bit they showed us, do you really think they are going to have enough content to keep you playing for 1 month? 2 month? 6 months? I've seen some say "just because they havent showed us, doesnt mean they dont have anything to show" - well thats somewhat true, but you have to understand, this is a game industry. They are running a business. They want to get sales. Providing little information about your product does not gain sales UNLESS if the information they recieve would hurt the sales even more. At this point, if they had something that would entice players to increase their chance of purchase, now would be the time they let the cat out of the bag. That should worry all of the people who hope the game succeeds (including myself) I would love to be proven wrong, but when common sense implies that things are not on the up and up, they typically arent.
1.) This is a sandbox MMO. There is no endgame. The game is what the players make it. There is no way to rush to the endgame. You can go anywhere you choose at anytime . . . and succeed if you are good. You won't have to rush through the grind to get to the endgame and then raid for years on end.
2.) Seing as how there is no mandatory questing . . . that should lower alot of bugs, and people won't cry because they lvled faster than the devs could finsih adding content.
3.) AV has had professional testing being done for awhile now. The way I think it was done was whenever new things where added, the pro testers played it thouroughly making ure the kinks where out. It was a kind of rolling testing that was going on.
4.) They are not going for the WoW kill. They are making a niche game, and they know it. 200k subscribers is a pretty good number to start, no? Especially for an indie company . . . start small and work your way up. You don't see a mom and pop restaurant chain open up 500 stores across the USA to start off with. They open one or two locally, then expand from there. That is smart business.
5.) Lack of info does not mean failure. In fact . . . seeing recent trend . . . over information means failure. i.e. WAR/AOC.
6.) Things being cut does not mean failure. The devs have stated that the two things that were cut could not be worked into the mechanics. And this was stated a long while back . . . not right before open beta . . . heck . . . not even right before closed beta.
1) Just because it is a sandbox does not mean there is going to be very much to do.
2) True, but just the same, the loss of mandatory questing is one less thing to keep players busy.
3) I didnt even get on to the issue of testing, but all game companies have in-house testers. The spin that this game does not need testers is just that - a spin. All MMO's need testing on a large-scale which is not possible if they only have a couple hundred players in beta as they claim.
4) 200k accounts on the forum does NOT mean 200k subscriptions. This means 200k POTENTIAL customers. Which is all the more reason that the days leading up to a release are all the more important for marketing teams. This is a game - a piece of software that is downloadable - it is not a "mom and pop chain resturaunt" - they are completely different types of service. Resturaunt service which depends on taking existing ingredients, making sure they stay stocked on ingredients, preparing them in a timely manner, and doing so in a way that gives a good profit margin. Each individual customer comes in, take a certain amount of time to prepare their food, and then leaves. This effictively limits them much more then a game does.
Compare that to a game service, where to supply more players they simply have to set up more servers with existing code - something they can easily do by the time of release once a game ships (which is typically a month in advance)
5) It does not indicate failure, but lack of information when there is as much doubt as there is at the current time is very alarming because it is not "smart business" as you put it.
6) I never said things being cut means failure, I said thing being cut means a lack of funds.
With that said, I dont know how anyone could call the marketing actions of AV/DF "smart business". A large portion of their fanbase is hoping for the game to be a great game, but can not confidently say that it WILL be, and this is directly due to the developers actions.
They see the players doubting, and instead of providing reassurance to potential customers, they are saying "we dont let it bother us, we have tough skin, our game could be shipped now if we wanted". The old phrase "actions speak louder then words" comes to mind here. We have alot of words. Where are the actions?
I cant even believe that so many people are trying to justify their actions and call it smart business, when we have very little to none of the following - beta updates on their progress, in-game footage, customer interaction in general, information on the actual game mechanics, developer diaries, no coverage of in-game content, no coverage of the mechanics of all the features that are supposed to be unique to the game, no city capturing, no racial wars, no information on prestige classes, no in depth skill information, no crafting information, no housing design information, no third party interviews, no racial information that they promised to give us years ago, These are only the things that come to mind right now - I'm sure I could think of more if I tried.
To believe that they havent showed any of those things as a "smart business decision" would be completely foolish. It would take mere minutes for them to make a short video of what they have to offer and put it up - even FREE MMO games do such things. We have nothing to confirm that any of these things even made it to game.
A smart business decision for them right now, would be to put a simple video up of ANY of those features, to dispell all the doubt that the customers have right now, and to make players say "Wow, thats awesome, I'm definately going to buy this game!". With such a big list of unique features that Darkfall is supposed to have, it should be easy for them to make a video to get people to say that. They could just make a vid of, lets say, their housing design system or city building, with a simple voice over describing the details. Hell, AoC was able to do that without even having the player-cities work properly at release. For a game where the developers claim "it could be released today" they are pretty reluctant to prove it.
Furthermore they are putting a spin on their decisions to make them seem like it is for the better of the game, when it simply is not. They dont need testers because they have in-house testers? NO MMO GAME can make such claims. Having in-house testers is not something exclusive to them - ALL MMO's have them. This is just a spin their putting on it to make it sound good. Tasos claims development has only been since 2003, which is not true and is another spin on things to make it sound like its in development for as long as other MMO's.
They dismiss the fact that they are not proving to us the game is not vaporware and instead misdirect customers by saying "its easy being skeptic, they just want to get a reaction out of us, but we have a thick skin we dont let it bother us, thats how we know we are on the right track". Funny way to spin the fact that there is a large amount of people who arent quite sure that the game is going to be able to deliver all that it promises. Imagine the state of the gaming industry if they went by such logic as "doubters let us know we're on the right track"....
Their marketing (up until this point) leaves very much to be desired. Can they make a good game? Lets hope so, because that is yet to be determined...
post above me there suppose to be aa fewweeks of public beta chill guess what how many in house testers do most companies have? and does there servers tell the diffrence between npc and players yes it does. darkfall cant tellt eh diffrence . but dont really matter i know what they have so meh
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Actually he's right.. reality IS subjective... damn boy everyone knows that by now
Originally posted by SpyridonZ Their marketing (up until this point) leaves very much to be desired. Can they make a good game? Lets hope so, because that is yet to be determined...
So I suppose that given the very long list of things you want for free from developers, as I assume that you are not willing to pay for them, you are able to determine if a game will be good? Very unusual skill you have there, possibly bordering on the paranormal being that hundreds of thousands of other mmorpg gamers or even professional reviewers are not able to do this. The game buying public is regularly scammed even with this information, in fact because of it I would say.
You didn't answer my question regarding whether you would rather sell a large amount of boxes and then not be able to support your customers due limited infrastructure thereby metaphorically spitting in their faces, or would start off with a smaller number of customers that you could cope with. For a small startup this would be a real and very expensive problem, providing this background support is not as straight forward as plugging in some new servers.
Darkfall does look intriguing, and now that we are getting some commitments it is looking all the better.
While I am stoked, I am cautious. I truly believe that Adventurine plans to deliver on all its promises, yet I am being cautious.
The source of my caution stems from all the hype, hope, salivating, and all the pimping that the community here has heaped upon the game. I hear many folks going, "This game is gonna be great! (Insert reasons for why here)." While it does look good, I think many folks have built their expectations way too high.
I mean, some folks act like this game will not only be a good play, but it will make all of us a millionaires and usher in a new era of peace & harmony by solving the economic crisis, global warming, and even terrorism. Ok, I exagerate, but if you read what some folks are saying then you will see my point is valid.
The problem in anticipating something for so long is that what we expect and what lies in our mind's eye gets amplified and magnified way beyond reason. Many folks see some "golden gaming panacea" or "salvation for MMO's" in DF.
I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds.
When fantasy fails to live up to reality dissapointment is the result, even if the product really is, "all that."
We have a release date. We now should chill and back off on what we expect this game to do. DF will be more fun that way.
Originally posted by Korhindi I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds.
Yes I agree that will there will definitely be a lot of flaws, however I think most fans have been deprived of this kind of game for so long that they will be willing to forgive a lot. If it is solid and built well as you described it that will be more than enough for me and I suspect a lot of others.
Darkfall does look intriguing, and now that we are getting some commitments it is looking all the better. While I am stoked, I am cautious. I truly believe that Adventurine plans to deliver on all its promises, yet I am being cautious. The source of my caution stems from all the hype, hope, salivating, and all the pimping that the community here has heaped upon the game. I hear many folks going, "This game is gonna be great! (Insert reasons for why here)." While it does look good, I think many folks have built their expectations way too high. I mean, some folks act like this game will not only be a good play, but it will make all of us a millionaires and usher in a new era of peace & harmony by solving the economic crisis, global warming, and even terrorism. Ok, I exagerate, but if you read what some folks are saying then you will see my point is valid. The problem in anticipating something for so long is that what we expect and what lies in our mind's eye gets amplified and magnified way beyond reason. Many folks see some "golden gaming panacea" or "salvation for MMO's" in DF. I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds. When fantasy fails to live up to reality dissapointment is the result, even if the product really is, "all that." We have a release date. We now should chill and back off on what we expect this game to do. DF will be more fun that way.
You can't stop people for being more enthusiastic as they maybe should ...
See for some is the first opportunity to play their favorite feature set since years and since the time good MMO's..
Last years was like wondering in desert with only few MMO worth playing ..and mostly crap
You have to think of people dying with thirst see a oasis in horizon, Oasis coming near with every step..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
1) Just because it is a sandbox does not mean there is going to be very much to do. 2) True, but just the same, the loss of mandatory questing is one less thing to keep players busy. 3) I didnt even get on to the issue of testing, but all game companies have in-house testers. The spin that this game does not need testers is just that - a spin. All MMO's need testing on a large-scale which is not possible if they only have a couple hundred players in beta as they claim. 4) 200k accounts on the forum does NOT mean 200k subscriptions. This means 200k POTENTIAL customers. Which is all the more reason that the days leading up to a release are all the more important for marketing teams. This is a game - a piece of software that is downloadable - it is not a "mom and pop chain resturaunt" - they are completely different types of service. Resturaunt service which depends on taking existing ingredients, making sure they stay stocked on ingredients, preparing them in a timely manner, and doing so in a way that gives a good profit margin. Each individual customer comes in, take a certain amount of time to prepare their food, and then leaves. This effictively limits them much more then a game does. Compare that to a game service, where to supply more players they simply have to set up more servers with existing code - something they can easily do by the time of release once a game ships (which is typically a month in advance) 5) It does not indicate failure, but lack of information when there is as much doubt as there is at the current time is very alarming because it is not "smart business" as you put it. 6) I never said things being cut means failure, I said thing being cut means a lack of funds.
With that said, I dont know how anyone could call the marketing actions of AV/DF "smart business". A large portion of their fanbase is hoping for the game to be a great game, but can not confidently say that it WILL be, and this is directly due to the developers actions. They see the players doubting, and instead of providing reassurance to potential customers, they are saying "we dont let it bother us, we have tough skin, our game could be shipped now if we wanted". The old phrase "actions speak louder then words" comes to mind here. We have alot of words. Where are the actions? I cant even believe that so many people are trying to justify their actions and call it smart business, when we have very little to none of the following - beta updates on their progress, in-game footage, customer interaction in general, information on the actual game mechanics, developer diaries, no coverage of in-game content, no coverage of the mechanics of all the features that are supposed to be unique to the game, no city capturing, no racial wars, no information on prestige classes, no in depth skill information, no crafting information, no housing design information, no third party interviews, no racial information that they promised to give us years ago, These are only the things that come to mind right now - I'm sure I could think of more if I tried. To believe that they havent showed any of those things as a "smart business decision" would be completely foolish. It would take mere minutes for them to make a short video of what they have to offer and put it up - even FREE MMO games do such things. We have nothing to confirm that any of these things even made it to game. A smart business decision for them right now, would be to put a simple video up of ANY of those features, to dispell all the doubt that the customers have right now, and to make players say "Wow, thats awesome, I'm definately going to buy this game!". With such a big list of unique features that Darkfall is supposed to have, it should be easy for them to make a video to get people to say that. They could just make a vid of, lets say, their housing design system or city building, with a simple voice over describing the details. Hell, AoC was able to do that without even having the player-cities work properly at release. For a game where the developers claim "it could be released today" they are pretty reluctant to prove it. Furthermore they are putting a spin on their decisions to make them seem like it is for the better of the game, when it simply is not. They dont need testers because they have in-house testers? NO MMO GAME can make such claims. Having in-house testers is not something exclusive to them - ALL MMO's have them. This is just a spin their putting on it to make it sound good. Tasos claims development has only been since 2003, which is not true and is another spin on things to make it sound like its in development for as long as other MMO's. They dismiss the fact that they are not proving to us the game is not vaporware and instead misdirect customers by saying "its easy being skeptic, they just want to get a reaction out of us, but we have a thick skin we dont let it bother us, thats how we know we are on the right track". Funny way to spin the fact that there is a large amount of people who arent quite sure that the game is going to be able to deliver all that it promises. Imagine the state of the gaming industry if they went by such logic as "doubters let us know we're on the right track".... Their marketing (up until this point) leaves very much to be desired. Can they make a good game? Lets hope so, because that is yet to be determined...
1.) Did you ever play SWG? There was never lack of something to do.
2.) Once again, I will refer to SWG. No mandatory questing. Never a lack of anything to do.
3.) They are not in house testers. They hired someone from the outside.
4.) Fine . . . cut that number in half, if you wish. But I firmly believe that the game will have well over 100k subs. And, no . . . the smart business model . . . especially for a small indie company that does not have a money tree, is to start small and grow from there. Not start big, then downsize. If they do it the latter, it is a waste of moeny on servers that ultimately will not be needed. If you fail to see this, I am sorry.
5. ) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
6.) They told us it was not lack of funds. It was lack of playability in their system. What was cut did not fit the mechanics.
7.) Word of mouth is just as good an advertisement as any. In fact, it is the best advertisement available.
8.) They have many videos up. Trolls decide to ignore them.
Darkfall does look intriguing, and now that we are getting some commitments it is looking all the better. While I am stoked, I am cautious. I truly believe that Adventurine plans to deliver on all its promises, yet I am being cautious. The source of my caution stems from all the hype, hope, salivating, and all the pimping that the community here has heaped upon the game. I hear many folks going, "This game is gonna be great! (Insert reasons for why here)." While it does look good, I think many folks have built their expectations way too high. I mean, some folks act like this game will not only be a good play, but it will make all of us a millionaires and usher in a new era of peace & harmony by solving the economic crisis, global warming, and even terrorism. Ok, I exagerate, but if you read what some folks are saying then you will see my point is valid. The problem in anticipating something for so long is that what we expect and what lies in our mind's eye gets amplified and magnified way beyond reason. Many folks see some "golden gaming panacea" or "salvation for MMO's" in DF. I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds. When fantasy fails to live up to reality dissapointment is the result, even if the product really is, "all that." We have a release date. We now should chill and back off on what we expect this game to do. DF will be more fun that way.
You can't stop people for being more enthusiastic as they maybe should ...
See for some is the first opportunity to play their favorite feature set since years and since the time good MMO's..
Last years was like wondering in desert with only few MMO worth playing ..and mostly crap
You have to think of people dying with thirst see a oasis in horizon, Oasis coming near with every step..
I hear you. And I too am wandering through the "desert" you mention.
But, keep in mind, that one could be too enthusiastic. That was the point of my post.
Using your "oasis in the desert" analogy, an over enthusiastic/needy or thirsty traveler will never see the illusions for what they are, and will die of thirst chasing mirages. And should they actually find a true oasis, many will drink so much that they will die anyways (yes you can die from drinking too much after suffering severe thirst).
Originally posted by SpyridonZ How good of a product it is in the end was not my point - I made no claims as to how good of a movie Dark Knight is. My point was, the marketers job is to find the best method to make as much money as possible. Just because they have a big following and alot of hype, does not mean that they could not make more money with marketing. Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so. As I already said (in slightly different words) if a developer is claiming that their maketing is making a choice that will result in LESS money, DO NOT BELIEVE THEM. That is not a choice they would make unless it was the only option. This hurts the credibility, and makes it hard to believe many of the other claims they have made in the interviews. BTW, Jan 22nd release is for the EU version only. NA does not have a date yet - I dont think many people have realized that. Take that for what it is worth.
My only concern is what my playing experience will be like.
But from the devs point of view they currently have 200,000 people registered on the forums.
"Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so."
Maybe they think that 200,000 is enough of a following, here is why:
They have no experience at launching an mmorpg. They have no pre existing customer service set up unlike Mythic and Funcom. They have no billing system. They have no existing server hardware. All of their relationships with 3rd parties are untested. They have a limited amount of money with which to provide this infrastructure.
Trying to go from 0 to 1 million customers overnight due to marketing hype would not be the way to make money in the long run, it would the fastest route to disaster. Why would they overhype a game and end up with more customers than they could reasonably deal with?
It's the same as any small enterprise, if you owned sausage factory and you were comfortable producing 1,000 packets of sausage a week why would you go around all the major supermarkets and take orders for 100,000 packets of sausages a week knowing full well that it was likely to be beyond your capability.
In the real world I would think it would be doubtful that they would be able to cope with the amount of customers that they would get if a fully fledged campaign was launched.
If it was always possible to maximise profit then products would never run out of stock at xmas for instance.
If I was in their position I would do exactly the same thing, start off at a level I felt comfortable with and then scale up. Would you or would you say fuck it and sell as many copies as possible and then not provide any customer service for it?
Good point.
I have my doubts about DF but non of its due to marketing or lack of it.
I realy do hope its like uo and not just the pvp part.
Originally posted by Korhindi I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds.
Yes I agree that will there will definitely be a lot of flaws, however I think most fans have been deprived of this kind of game for so long that they will be willing to forgive a lot. If it is solid and built well as you described it that will be more than enough for me and I suspect a lot of others.
Yep, I am expecting flaws, thats a given in any game. I'm not one to throw a hissy fit if something isnt perfect and 100% up to my expectations.
Hell, how flawed was EQ? I still loved it.
As long as good outweighs the bad, the fun outweighs the pain, and DF stays true to it's philosophy of freedom and challenge, then I'm on board for sure
Comments
I'm just picking out these two points, as the rest of it read as 'nuh uh!' and damage control.
1. I count lying as negativity as well. The game promised beta once before now, and this is the first time release has been announced.
Unless you want to count the release date being pushed back from December 2008 to Jan 2009 as two seperate release dates?
To counter what I predict will be your next argument - they've 'hoped' to release beta/the game constantly, yes. They've been in a constant state of 'hoping' for 7 years.
If you want to imply that 'we hope to release sometime soon(tm) possibly perhaps maybe if things go well' was an inferred release date, I would say that a release date, inferred or not, contains an actual date. It's sort of a requirement.
2. You didn't call him creepy, you just called his post creepy and found his motive creepy?
Seriously, did you read that before you hit the 'post message' button?
I'm just picking out these two points, as the rest of it read as 'nuh uh!' and damage control.
1. I count lying as negativity as well. The game promised beta once before now, and this is the first time release has been announced.
Unless you want to count the release date being pushed back from December 2008 to Jan 2009 as two seperate release dates?
To counter what I predict will be your next argument - they've 'hoped' to release beta/the game constantly, yes. They've been in a constant state of 'hoping' for 7 years.
If you want to imply that 'we hope to release sometime soon(tm) possibly perhaps maybe if things go well' was an inferred release date, I would say that a release date, inferred or not, contains an actual date. It's sort of a requirement.
2. You didn't call him creepy, you just called his post creepy and found his motive creepy?
Seriously, did you read that before you hit the 'post message' button?
lol good point, arcken has flip flopped a lot and never really takes a stance btw. he seems to want to not be "proven wrong" as if anyone actually will remember his name after the game releases.
Also very nice post OP.
~~
Darkfall Releases on: February 25th, 2009
Darkfall Recap of everything that has happened the last 3 months: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/213296
"The monsters are tough. I was looking for a challenge, but these things are just too damn smart." -DF Beta Tester
"If people were dismissing it, then they wouldn't be talking about it. The well-meaning gamers root for efforts that try to raise the bar. So who's left? It's so easy being a skeptic." -Tasos
To be fair, Im a fairly negative and skeptical person,
Yep, I think most of us here get that heh.
its a counterbalance to my incredible sense of humor when it comes to the reality of things.
Hrm, ok...
I have only seen the one side of you in any post I have read though, and it's the very negative and skeptical one.
You may wanna work on showing more of your 'incredible sense of humour' to counterbalance your negative and skeptical side here?
It would give us all a break.
Now, lets break down this nasty piece of work into some semblance of civility.
My negativity about Darkfall is well founded,
You see, my point has always been here is that you didnt even want to talk about DF. I did, you didnt.
You wanted to talk about my post being 'creepy', and you questioned it's motivation as being creepy, again inferring I did it for some kind of creepy need for love or acceptance...
In short, you ignored the game, and went for me.
THIS is why I said you had a weak character, and to be honest being constantly negative while sitting on the fence (in case things work out against you) is the definition of a weak character, NOT because you said anything about the game.
Because you didnt.
As for being a troll, to me its irrelevant, your opinion.
Yep, I get this.
I get the feeling that most people's opinions are irrelevant to you, based on what you post and how you phrase it.
Now if you look back at my previous posts...
ok...
I didnt call anyone creepy
ok...
I simply said that the post was creepy
er...
and that Im sure Id find the motive and reasoning behind it creepy.
ah!
I even said that I find the actions and attitude of some of its fanbois to be creepy. However did I say vesuvius was creepy?
So... The post was creepy, as was my motive and reasoning for posting it, but you are claiming you didnt call me anything?
c'mon... lol
This is sooo typical of how you post. At least have the conviction to stand behind your words. This is what I mean by a weak character. Your so slippery lol... It's all hedge sitting and word twisting with you isnt it?
No, not even after he called me on having a "weak character", even though it was just a baseless assumption.
No, an assumption based on your wriggly worm posts, that try and be as nasty and rude as possible, while still always leaving an escape hatch, because you havent the strength of conviction to make a defined stand on anything.
All you want is a fight. One that you can slime out of if you are losing.
I called you as I saw you, based on your words. They are my base for opinion of you.
As far as if Im the same as a child that misbehaves.... /snip
...Mainly 'cause your oily wriggling gives me a headache.
I think we are done now though.
As far as I am concerned you have come into a postive thread, made personal attacks and been generally rude, tried to blame it on others, and then re-invent what was said to make yourself look like the hero.
Well, good for you. I will even give you the (inevitable) last word. People can read what was written by me and written by you and make up their own minds, if they want to.
Actually, it's not about being savvy or assessing how good a game is. Rather, I see mainstream media reviews as a form of validation. Let's be honest. A large portion of the people on these boards didn't even believe the game was real prior to the last few months. A large portion is still very doubtful that the game promised is the game we'll get. A few real previews from reputable sources would go a long way towards fixing that and solidifying the game in a lot of players' minds.
Anywho, I do hope the game is a success. If it is, I'll be giving it a go myself. Again, January will be a telling month.
Are these the same sources that encouraged hundreds of thousands of people to buy AoC in the knowledge that it had working end game sieges or that in WAR war was everywhere? These sources are just circle jerking to increase profits for all concerned as far as I can see. There is no such thing as a reputable source, except maybe print media newspapers / magazines which have a gaming section which isn't the type of media people are asking for. People want to see DF reported on sites like gamespot because they think that it makes it more legitimate even though that is where they got hit with the sucker punch only a few months ago, how short people's memories are hehe.
1.) This is a sandbox MMO. There is no endgame. The game is what the players make it. There is no way to rush to the endgame. You can go anywhere you choose at anytime . . . and succeed if you are good. You won't have to rush through the grind to get to the endgame and then raid for years on end.
2.) Seing as how there is no mandatory questing . . . that should lower alot of bugs, and people won't cry because they lvled faster than the devs could finsih adding content.
3.) AV has had professional testing being done for awhile now. The way I think it was done was whenever new things where added, the pro testers played it thouroughly making ure the kinks where out. It was a kind of rolling testing that was going on.
4.) They are not going for the WoW kill. They are making a niche game, and they know it. 200k subscribers is a pretty good number to start, no? Especially for an indie company . . . start small and work your way up. You don't see a mom and pop restaurant chain open up 500 stores across the USA to start off with. They open one or two locally, then expand from there. That is smart business.
5.) Lack of info does not mean failure. In fact . . . seeing recent trend . . . over information means failure. i.e. WAR/AOC.
6.) Things being cut does not mean failure. The devs have stated that the two things that were cut could not be worked into the mechanics. And this was stated a long while back . . . not right before open beta . . . heck . . . not even right before closed beta.
1.) This is a sandbox MMO. There is no endgame. The game is what the players make it. There is no way to rush to the endgame. You can go anywhere you choose at anytime . . . and succeed if you are good. You won't have to rush through the grind to get to the endgame and then raid for years on end.
2.) Seing as how there is no mandatory questing . . . that should lower alot of bugs, and people won't cry because they lvled faster than the devs could finsih adding content.
3.) AV has had professional testing being done for awhile now. The way I think it was done was whenever new things where added, the pro testers played it thouroughly making ure the kinks where out. It was a kind of rolling testing that was going on.
4.) They are not going for the WoW kill. They are making a niche game, and they know it. 200k subscribers is a pretty good number to start, no? Especially for an indie company . . . start small and work your way up. You don't see a mom and pop restaurant chain open up 500 stores across the USA to start off with. They open one or two locally, then expand from there. That is smart business.
5.) Lack of info does not mean failure. In fact . . . seeing recent trend . . . over information means failure. i.e. WAR/AOC.
6.) Things being cut does not mean failure. The devs have stated that the two things that were cut could not be worked into the mechanics. And this was stated a long while back . . . not right before open beta . . . heck . . . not even right before closed beta.
1) Just because it is a sandbox does not mean there is going to be very much to do.
2) True, but just the same, the loss of mandatory questing is one less thing to keep players busy.
3) I didnt even get on to the issue of testing, but all game companies have in-house testers. The spin that this game does not need testers is just that - a spin. All MMO's need testing on a large-scale which is not possible if they only have a couple hundred players in beta as they claim.
4) 200k accounts on the forum does NOT mean 200k subscriptions. This means 200k POTENTIAL customers. Which is all the more reason that the days leading up to a release are all the more important for marketing teams. This is a game - a piece of software that is downloadable - it is not a "mom and pop chain resturaunt" - they are completely different types of service. Resturaunt service which depends on taking existing ingredients, making sure they stay stocked on ingredients, preparing them in a timely manner, and doing so in a way that gives a good profit margin. Each individual customer comes in, take a certain amount of time to prepare their food, and then leaves. This effictively limits them much more then a game does.
Compare that to a game service, where to supply more players they simply have to set up more servers with existing code - something they can easily do by the time of release once a game ships (which is typically a month in advance)
5) It does not indicate failure, but lack of information when there is as much doubt as there is at the current time is very alarming because it is not "smart business" as you put it.
6) I never said things being cut means failure, I said thing being cut means a lack of funds.
With that said, I dont know how anyone could call the marketing actions of AV/DF "smart business". A large portion of their fanbase is hoping for the game to be a great game, but can not confidently say that it WILL be, and this is directly due to the developers actions.
They see the players doubting, and instead of providing reassurance to potential customers, they are saying "we dont let it bother us, we have tough skin, our game could be shipped now if we wanted". The old phrase "actions speak louder then words" comes to mind here. We have alot of words. Where are the actions?
I cant even believe that so many people are trying to justify their actions and call it smart business, when we have very little to none of the following - beta updates on their progress, in-game footage, customer interaction in general, information on the actual game mechanics, developer diaries, no coverage of in-game content, no coverage of the mechanics of all the features that are supposed to be unique to the game, no city capturing, no racial wars, no information on prestige classes, no in depth skill information, no crafting information, no housing design information, no third party interviews, no racial information that they promised to give us years ago, These are only the things that come to mind right now - I'm sure I could think of more if I tried.
To believe that they havent showed any of those things as a "smart business decision" would be completely foolish. It would take mere minutes for them to make a short video of what they have to offer and put it up - even FREE MMO games do such things. We have nothing to confirm that any of these things even made it to game.
A smart business decision for them right now, would be to put a simple video up of ANY of those features, to dispell all the doubt that the customers have right now, and to make players say "Wow, thats awesome, I'm definately going to buy this game!". With such a big list of unique features that Darkfall is supposed to have, it should be easy for them to make a video to get people to say that. They could just make a vid of, lets say, their housing design system or city building, with a simple voice over describing the details. Hell, AoC was able to do that without even having the player-cities work properly at release. For a game where the developers claim "it could be released today" they are pretty reluctant to prove it.
Furthermore they are putting a spin on their decisions to make them seem like it is for the better of the game, when it simply is not. They dont need testers because they have in-house testers? NO MMO GAME can make such claims. Having in-house testers is not something exclusive to them - ALL MMO's have them. This is just a spin their putting on it to make it sound good. Tasos claims development has only been since 2003, which is not true and is another spin on things to make it sound like its in development for as long as other MMO's.
They dismiss the fact that they are not proving to us the game is not vaporware and instead misdirect customers by saying "its easy being skeptic, they just want to get a reaction out of us, but we have a thick skin we dont let it bother us, thats how we know we are on the right track". Funny way to spin the fact that there is a large amount of people who arent quite sure that the game is going to be able to deliver all that it promises. Imagine the state of the gaming industry if they went by such logic as "doubters let us know we're on the right track"....
Their marketing (up until this point) leaves very much to be desired. Can they make a good game? Lets hope so, because that is yet to be determined...
post above me there suppose to be aa fewweeks of public beta chill guess what how many in house testers do most companies have? and does there servers tell the diffrence between npc and players yes it does. darkfall cant tellt eh diffrence . but dont really matter i know what they have so meh
No it isn't. It's either real or it isn't.
What you're describing is delusion. Which isn't surprising considering most people who follow and believe in blind faith bullshit which can't be proven to exist as described are deluded.
There is not 1 single thing that has been released about this game over the course of the last month that proves they have anything that they have been talking about all these years.
A shitty video recorded by two italians with the most basic gameplay possible in it that looks like it was built by a buynch of college kids using Torque.
That's about it.
Actually he's right.. reality IS subjective... damn boy everyone knows that by now
So I suppose that given the very long list of things you want for free from developers, as I assume that you are not willing to pay for them, you are able to determine if a game will be good? Very unusual skill you have there, possibly bordering on the paranormal being that hundreds of thousands of other mmorpg gamers or even professional reviewers are not able to do this. The game buying public is regularly scammed even with this information, in fact because of it I would say.
You didn't answer my question regarding whether you would rather sell a large amount of boxes and then not be able to support your customers due limited infrastructure thereby metaphorically spitting in their faces, or would start off with a smaller number of customers that you could cope with. For a small startup this would be a real and very expensive problem, providing this background support is not as straight forward as plugging in some new servers.
Darkfall does look intriguing, and now that we are getting some commitments it is looking all the better.
While I am stoked, I am cautious. I truly believe that Adventurine plans to deliver on all its promises, yet I am being cautious.
The source of my caution stems from all the hype, hope, salivating, and all the pimping that the community here has heaped upon the game. I hear many folks going, "This game is gonna be great! (Insert reasons for why here)." While it does look good, I think many folks have built their expectations way too high.
I mean, some folks act like this game will not only be a good play, but it will make all of us a millionaires and usher in a new era of peace & harmony by solving the economic crisis, global warming, and even terrorism. Ok, I exagerate, but if you read what some folks are saying then you will see my point is valid.
The problem in anticipating something for so long is that what we expect and what lies in our mind's eye gets amplified and magnified way beyond reason. Many folks see some "golden gaming panacea" or "salvation for MMO's" in DF.
I think it will just be a game. A good game, but one that has its flaws; one that may well have launch issues, bugs, features not in at release and so on. Am I saying, the game is gonna suck? No, I am saying that no release is perfect and the game WILL have some issues, for they all do. DF will most likely be built good and solid, but it cannot possibly live up to the Darkfall that many fans have built in THEIR minds.
When fantasy fails to live up to reality dissapointment is the result, even if the product really is, "all that."
We have a release date. We now should chill and back off on what we expect this game to do. DF will be more fun that way.
Yes I agree that will there will definitely be a lot of flaws, however I think most fans have been deprived of this kind of game for so long that they will be willing to forgive a lot. If it is solid and built well as you described it that will be more than enough for me and I suspect a lot of others.
You can't stop people for being more enthusiastic as they maybe should ...
See for some is the first opportunity to play their favorite feature set since years and since the time good MMO's..
Last years was like wondering in desert with only few MMO worth playing ..and mostly crap
You have to think of people dying with thirst see a oasis in horizon, Oasis coming near with every step..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
1.) Did you ever play SWG? There was never lack of something to do.
2.) Once again, I will refer to SWG. No mandatory questing. Never a lack of anything to do.
3.) They are not in house testers. They hired someone from the outside.
4.) Fine . . . cut that number in half, if you wish. But I firmly believe that the game will have well over 100k subs. And, no . . . the smart business model . . . especially for a small indie company that does not have a money tree, is to start small and grow from there. Not start big, then downsize. If they do it the latter, it is a waste of moeny on servers that ultimately will not be needed. If you fail to see this, I am sorry.
5. ) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
6.) They told us it was not lack of funds. It was lack of playability in their system. What was cut did not fit the mechanics.
7.) Word of mouth is just as good an advertisement as any. In fact, it is the best advertisement available.
8.) They have many videos up. Trolls decide to ignore them.
8.) It will all be decided January 22, 2009
You can't stop people for being more enthusiastic as they maybe should ...
See for some is the first opportunity to play their favorite feature set since years and since the time good MMO's..
Last years was like wondering in desert with only few MMO worth playing ..and mostly crap
You have to think of people dying with thirst see a oasis in horizon, Oasis coming near with every step..
I hear you. And I too am wandering through the "desert" you mention.
But, keep in mind, that one could be too enthusiastic. That was the point of my post.
Using your "oasis in the desert" analogy, an over enthusiastic/needy or thirsty traveler will never see the illusions for what they are, and will die of thirst chasing mirages. And should they actually find a true oasis, many will drink so much that they will die anyways (yes you can die from drinking too much after suffering severe thirst).
My only concern is what my playing experience will be like.
But from the devs point of view they currently have 200,000 people registered on the forums.
"Their job is to make more money, and Darkfalls claims that "we are not doing marketing until its out because we have enough of a following". As a marketer, the ONLY reason you would make that choice, is because your team is lacking the funding to do so."
Maybe they think that 200,000 is enough of a following, here is why:
They have no experience at launching an mmorpg. They have no pre existing customer service set up unlike Mythic and Funcom. They have no billing system. They have no existing server hardware. All of their relationships with 3rd parties are untested. They have a limited amount of money with which to provide this infrastructure.
Trying to go from 0 to 1 million customers overnight due to marketing hype would not be the way to make money in the long run, it would the fastest route to disaster. Why would they overhype a game and end up with more customers than they could reasonably deal with?
It's the same as any small enterprise, if you owned sausage factory and you were comfortable producing 1,000 packets of sausage a week why would you go around all the major supermarkets and take orders for 100,000 packets of sausages a week knowing full well that it was likely to be beyond your capability.
In the real world I would think it would be doubtful that they would be able to cope with the amount of customers that they would get if a fully fledged campaign was launched.
If it was always possible to maximise profit then products would never run out of stock at xmas for instance.
If I was in their position I would do exactly the same thing, start off at a level I felt comfortable with and then scale up. Would you or would you say fuck it and sell as many copies as possible and then not provide any customer service for it?
Good point.
I have my doubts about DF but non of its due to marketing or lack of it.
I realy do hope its like uo and not just the pvp part.
Yes I agree that will there will definitely be a lot of flaws, however I think most fans have been deprived of this kind of game for so long that they will be willing to forgive a lot. If it is solid and built well as you described it that will be more than enough for me and I suspect a lot of others.
Yep, I am expecting flaws, thats a given in any game. I'm not one to throw a hissy fit if something isnt perfect and 100% up to my expectations.
Hell, how flawed was EQ? I still loved it.
As long as good outweighs the bad, the fun outweighs the pain, and DF stays true to it's philosophy of freedom and challenge, then I'm on board for sure