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PvE Servers
A friend suggested DF have PvE servers to pull in more people. What do you think would happen to DF if they offered PvE servers along side normal servers? I argued against PvE servers pointing to Trammel, but really, isn't it like saying there aren't enough PvPers to sustain a PvP server if a PvE server existed? If it is like saying that, then what sort of population do we expect to have in DF?
I wouldn't mind a non-full loot server personally, but I'd be opposed to a PvE server.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Comments
If you can PvP anywhere, and kill anyone, any time, then the game is going to skew towards PvP. It's unlikely the PvE will be good enough to warrant a PvE server.
What it does and what happened with Trammel was that everyone got divided up into groups. So that the pvpers have no one to hunt and after a while safety gets boring for the pvers. And so you end up with two bored groups and half a game.
As for the PvE what I have seen so far looks way more fun then any other pve I've seen in any game before, but I do believe that the pvp aspect of the game will add to the longevity of the pve.
No good idea, give all players the whole thing...the mediocre MMO's have established a bad habit here offering different instances of the world with other rules. Takes away from the true MMO and cut the range of possible experiences for all.
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The devs already stated there will be no PvE server.
Killer: 100%, Achiever: 47%, Socializer: 27%, Explorer: 27%
if your friend likes PvE better than PvP than he must be in MMO heaven right now, hes got a ton of games to choose from. Those who like PvP have very few good games to choose from.
The entire development and design of this game is for revolutionary PvP.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
You know what i think is odd, if a PVE game comes out and the PVP fans ask for a PVP server the PVE fans go crazy, and if a PVP game comes out and the PVE fans ask for a PVE server the PVP fans go crazy.
Having seperate servers for PVE and PVP as well as some combo servers makes sense. This will get the biggest crowd into a game. I have to think that the real PVPers are afraid that if a PVE server, or less painful PVP server is offered in Darkfall then the full PVP server would be a very lonely place.
I do understand where you are coming from, it isnt like there are a bunch of PVP games out there while there are a ton of PVE games out there but when everyone is so steadfast and will not give in a little it often leads to no one being happy.
Facts are that games that have PVE servers as well as full loot PVP server the lowest population is usually on the PVP server.
But, that being said, i dont really want Darkall to have a PVE server. I would kind of like them to have a server that is not full loot but it isnt real important to me.
Only the first sentence is in reply to you. Everything else is not directed towards anyone in particular.
I think you're the only one that has grasped what I was saying in my OP.
Many are saying the market is full of PvE games, when if fact, the market is full of games that have PvE and PvP. Neither are done exceptionally well and DF is the only game with full freedom to announce its release anytime soon.
A lot of people shy away from DF due to the harsh PvP system, but really love the idea of a MMO that has a skill based system, FPS type combat, city building, and so on. When you look at DF from that angle, PvP is only one feature out of many. You can play DF just fine without PvP in it. However, I argue that the game will get old fast without territory control, which is essentially what the game will be all about once people have skilled up and explored the world.
I don't want a PvE server anymore than you do, but I can be unbiased enough to discuss this without devolving to irrational responses. Why should we fear a PvE server or a server without full loot? Fans of Full Loot PvP or PvP will still have their servers. The devs main focus would still be PvP, so what's the difference between offering PvE servers for DF fans that don't want to PvP and other MMORPG fans wanting a PvP server? Didn't the other companies cater to the PvP crowd by implementing PvP servers, battlegrounds, and other methods of PvP?
If anyones answer is that people would flock to the less severe servers if they are available, then what does that say about the future of DF if they don't offer them? If there aren't enough fans of PvP to sustain PvP servers if they offered PvE servers, what makes you think DF will survive with only PvP servers?
One good point my friend made was that PvE servers bring in more money for the devs to use to further develop DF and create bigger and better updates. Those updates would benefit the PvP and PvE players, and who would turn down bigger and better updates?
While I'd prefer everyone to play on one server, I can see the merits of both sides of the argument
.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Adding a pve server will add more people to the game, and this will assure the game doesn't need to close due to lack of players. But for some reason, the pvpers can't understand this.
Just look at Shadowbane. There aren't enough people to keep the game going.
lol shadowbane didn't fail due to lack of pve subscribers
Why? You could just not playing on it.
The question is more if DF have enough PvE content to support a PvE server.
DF will need any player it can get, it is expensive to run a niche MMO and if some people want a PvE or a PvP server without full looting and with some safe areas that is far better than having economical problem because you have to few players.
The existance of different kind of servers only applies to the people playing there. I rather see that a game have many playsets than that it have to cancel because few players, that is always a risk with new MMOs.
no no the PvPers know that if there was a PvE server, then there PvP server would be a ghost town. So the PvP'er are adimantly oppsed to a PvE server, because they dont want to see there beloved PvP server dwindle away. However DF is a niche game that will start with high subs due to its popularity atm, and slowly shrink to fit the niche players that love the hardcore PvP. These types games always self implode due to the community that they draw. Its a simple fact that the average player and above average player does not like all the ganking and greiving that goes on in these type of games.
As for the PvE in DF I do not think there is enough of it to even come close to sustain a PvE server. It wasnt made with PvE in mind.
The only way different type of server would work, is if they made a more of a, I guess you would call it a "carebear" server with more rules on PvP Like focus on more of faction (alfar) vs faction (human dwarf elf) vs faction (orc mahrim), and you cant fight against your own faction, and limit player looting rights. that type of server would work but again the hardcore PvP'ers would highly oppose it because it would severly take away from their FFA PvP server.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Any kind of alternative server will ruin Darkfall. Darkfall is a true sandbox game.
Sandbox games are about bringing the world to life and being apart of that world. Full immersion.
And sandbox games need every type of player to bring a world to life.
We need crafters, PvEers, townies, socialites, PvPers, guild wars, race wars, PK, anti-PK, hunters,
dungeon crawlers, explores, pirates, bounty hunters, etc... In short, we need you to help us
bring this world to life.
Anyone who played original UO, a FFA PvP game, can tell you that PvE was very rerwarding.
I played for two years and never PvPed and never had problems with it. It did keep me on my
toes, which made the game that much more fun.
Welp, if you were to make a PVE game out of Darkfall, it wouldn't be very fun since the game is based around PVP. Think about it....Ssay you wanna build a city.... ok, you do it....then what?...... oh thats it huh? Noone can attack it, take it over, it just sits there. See my point?
It's no suprise though that PVE is usually more popular then PVP shards. Its the easiest road to take to get what you want (armor, items, so on.... )
Just saying
Let me again state that i am not trying to get a PVE server on Darkfall.
But, i always read about PVPers being upset because they go into a game like EQ, WoW, etc etc and they feel that the PVP is put in as an afterthought. It is difficult to add PVP to a PVE game that was really not built for it so i understand this.
Here you have a game that was built for PVP from the ground up and if they did add a PVE server then that server would be the afterthough. I would think that this would make the PVP crowd happy.
No they should not make a whole new server that is all about loot and quests and crap like that. They could take the Darkfall game as it is now (or when it releases) and just turn off the PVP.
The Devs said that you can play Darkfall completely PVE and it has plenty of content. I dont know if this is true or not , people on here dont seem to think so, but hopeully it is because if not then the game is just going to be a gankfest.
Im hoping Darkfall is the perfect combination of PVE and PVP. There is plenty of me to do PVE be it exploring, solo hunting, group hunting, dungeon crawling, etc, but if some guy pisses me off i want to have the option of trying to cut his freaking head off. And i would love it if all that was on one server type.
I was actualy going to ignore this thread but I gave in lol. If the PvE side of DarkFall is good enough to interest PvE centric players and keep them FFA PvP or not they will be here. Same reason those in UO that did not like FFA PvP stayed even though they had other MMO's to go to if they were truely unhappy with the FFA PvP.
For me personaly with the game designed with FFA PvP being one of the core rules of the world, a server for PvE only would just seem off. It's like playing on a PvP server of a game that was meant to be PvP only. It just doesn't fit. Something always feels like it's either missing or it just feels wrong.
I mean a good example would be, Age of Conan. They herald the game as a PvP game, yet it didn't feel like a PvP game on the PvP servers. The PvP felt akward at best. There trying to fix that but to no prevail, the game just wasn't built to be a PvP game. It is a PvE only game and the PvP was simply tacked on at the end.
War is a good example of a game designed around PvP. I couldn't imagine a PvE server for War. PvP is at it's core. UO is another good example, while PvE in UO was good, it just didn't stand alone very well. Without the PvP it just lacked something.
Every game is inherently either PvP or PvE, what this means is it will work better 1 way or the other. You have to pick a focus and design it based on that perspective.
WoW is another good example. It is clearly a PvE game, with PvP tacked on at the end. This can be seen by the fact that gear plays such a large part in the outcome. Gear > Toon Skill Gear > Player Skill.
DarkFall will have good PvE from what I hear, but it indirectly ties in with PvP due to the way the game is designed. A server without PvP for DarkFall would be like making a server without crafters or a server without melee or a server without casters. It will just feel off because it was never intended to be without it.
Here you have game that was built from the ground up to be a sandbox game. Which involves
PvP and PVE.
So far this is true. My big hope with sandbox games is that they can bring it all together to make
a complete game.
Ive always had a game like darkfall in mind but more faction-centric. So you are free to do anything
but your actions would weigh heavily on you.
Wanted to add something else you may not be considering lol. Another huge problem with a PvE only server with DarkFall is going to be the fact there is collision detection. With FFA PvP, you can potentialy deal with those atempting to hender your progress or atleast get others to deal with them. On a PvE server..... how exactly are you going to deal with people blocking an entrance to a dungeon or shop? You going to call a GM? Are they going to help by removing said players out of your way when you could have done so yourself on a PvP server or atleast had others do it for you?
You have to remember this is a FFA PvP game, the majority of problems will be left for the community to deal with when the problem is between players.
eh, they would just do what UO did. Allow players to walk through each other.
eh, they would just do what UO did. Allow players to walk through each other.
Collision detection is in lol, you can not simply walk through other players lol. That would be bypassing a game mechanic. As I stated the game was designed with FFA PvP in mind , there are numerous problems you would run into on a PvE only server due to this fact that will not be on PvP servers.
Also If they say for example you can walk through people on a PvE server many would cry for the same allowance on PvP servers. PvE only servers are simply not feasible in DarkFall lol.
eh, they would just do what UO did. Allow players to walk through each other.
Collision detection is in lol, you can not simply walk through other players lol. That would be bypassing a game mechanic. As I stated the game was designed with FFA PvP in mind , there are numerous problems you would run into on a PvE only server due to this fact that will not be on PvP servers.
Also If they say for example you can walk through people on a PvE server many would cry for the same allowance on PvP servers. PvE only servers are simply not feasible in DarkFall lol.
Everquest was a PVE game and it had collision detection in it. You could not simply walk through other players in EQ. Have you ever been stuck behind an Ogre standing in a doorway?
You handle it the same was as you did in EQ:
Option 1: "Excuse me, could you move a little so i could get by?"
Option 2: "Hey fat ass, get out of the way!"
Dev's are making the game for the players, so no they will not ruin the game with PvE servers. They have said this multiple times.
eh, they would just do what UO did. Allow players to walk through each other.
Collision detection is in lol, you can not simply walk through other players lol. That would be bypassing a game mechanic. As I stated the game was designed with FFA PvP in mind , there are numerous problems you would run into on a PvE only server due to this fact that will not be on PvP servers.
Also If they say for example you can walk through people on a PvE server many would cry for the same allowance on PvP servers. PvE only servers are simply not feasible in DarkFall lol.
Everquest was a PVE game and it had collision detection in it. You could not simply walk through other players in EQ. Have you ever been stuck behind an Ogre standing in a doorway?
You handle it the same was as you did in EQ:
Option 1: "Excuse me, could you move a little so i could get by?"
Option 2: "Hey fat ass, get out of the way!"
Edited this out and owe you an apology lol apparently I should read slower. Missed one word and it changed the whole meaning of your post lol. Highlighted the word I missed. sorry mate lol.
Asking in some cases may help but in UO we had people that would do this to intentionally keep you out of places.
Lets even move on shall we and go to some problems in combat. Person A is standing infront of the mob you are trying to fight. You are now firing spells and attacks at an invalid target, remember there is no lock on.
Lets move on to Clan cities ect. These will then become permanent fixtures.
Naval combat becomes an unused thing.
And I can go on and on.
Again DarkFall is a PvP game designed around this principle.
The simple fact is the combined Mechanics and features many would enjoy on a PvE server would be removed or simply would not work or would be heavily exploitable without the FFA PvP.
I hope not. Darkfall doesn't need it's Trammel thank you very much.