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How dose WoW come out on top? news story inside
wolffin
Member UncommonPosts: 193
"what happened to this year's new entrants and why did WoW come out on top? Age of Conan had an extremely rough start, with plenty of bugs and incomplete content for higher level characters when it was pushed out. Warhammer seemed to have a smoother launch but as the year closes it already appears to be losing its audience in the face of WoW's latest expansion."
Comments
Playing WoW and WAR atm, this is the first time I have ever played 2 MMO's at the same time. WOW is the king, but I think WAR is a worthy title. I do hope it lasts because other than SW old republic I dont see to many games coming down the road that looks promising...
"It's stunning how game makers tailor their creations only to a tiny niche of folks running bleeding-edge systems and wonder why they're losing audience to game consoles."
The problem is that WoW has years and years of development and polish behind it. We won't get a WoW killer straight out of the gate - it will need to build over time. Remember WoW didn't have 12 Million subs after the first month. It's taken years to get to that number.
The other problem with the current industry is that whereas before games like EQ and SWG held an equal share of the market, WoW holds a disproportionate number of subscribers. This is thanks to its casual-friendly approach, marketing clout, and popular IP.
WoW is a success for the same reason the Wii is...
You forgot the main factor.
You forgot the main factor.
I didnt forget it, I just left it out because 'fun' is subjective. The points I made are pretty much facts I think.
I never found WoW 'fun' for instance.
Fair point, but then 'cheap to set up' and 'easy to use' is subjective too
We have to find common grounds for debating and although you don't find it fun, if you look at the total sum of MMO players in the world, you will find the majority think it's fun = it's fun.
Same with your console analogy - I don't find the Wii fun, but I accept it being a 'fun' product because most people will find it fun
Yeah, I get where your coming from.
I think the fact that you only need a low end system to run WoW means that is is cheap to set up though, and as it has one of the smoothest learning curves of any MMORPGs, I would say that it is easy to use...
I'm never gonna be convinced to define 'fun' by the majority taste though, I'm sorry. I don't find most pop music 'fun' and I don't find the majority of Hollywood films 'fun', and I don't find a trip to McDonalds 'fun'. Others do, fair enough, but no way for me :P
Fun is too vague a term for me... If a friend recommended somehting on the basis of it being 'fun', the first question I would ask would be 'how so?'.
I've never really considered myself a 'mainstream' kind of person. To me, it seems when things get really big and go mainstream, they have a tendancy to turn into crap as whatever things it had that made it awesome tend to be the first things to be sacrificed (or at least toned down) in the name of giving it even greater mass appeal.
You forgot the main factor.
Not for everyone. That's why I quit. It got boring.
No, I am sorry, but you seem to be mising the point that majority preference dosent define 'fun'.
'Fun' is subjective, and not really a valid critical statement to me, unless I already know you and trust your views and opinions in RL. It is just too vague and is defined by personal taste.
Now... if you wanna tell me why you think something is 'fun' I am listening... It only has value if you quantify it.
Even then, they are just the reasons you find something fun. They may strike a chord with me, they may not.
The reasons, though, WoW is so massive are, still;
I'm not really into carrying on a conversation about WoW right now beyond this though to be honest... Even just talking about the game bores me.
I'll duck out of this thread now
Agreed. However I don't think it's simply a matter of choice, but rather a matter of development cost. Blizzard spends a TON of money on programmers and artists to achieve the best possible bang for the buck in terms of graphics and processing horsepower. Other development companies simply don't have the money or the manpower to create a game with better graphics with the same minimum requirements to compete with Blizzard. It's not a matter of choice, it's a matter of ability. Blizzard simply does it better.
I agree here,especially the last point,that is the big reason it kept getting bigger.
It is pretty amazing that they took the all out marketing approach to build this puppy up.They took there initial success and kept with the same marketing approach all along.Instead of building there game up piece by piece,describing to the potential buyers,the proponents of the game,they used a cheap approach ,by telling everyone out there,"Everyone is playing""We have this many subs".
So potential users are joining up,without any knowledge of the actual game,do you think 90% of these users would have even thought of the game if it used the small marketing you see from Square and FFXI?Why?because there is virtually ZERO marketing for FFXI,try to find an add anywhere,however wow is everywhere.Each and every time,it is the same thing "We have 5/6/7/8/9 10 million subs so join us now".
That in theory is a VERY weak marketing strategy,instead of perhaps lying or making your game out to be something it is not,they just flat out say "Join the masses".Blizzard does of course use some false advertising,there video marketing is all false,NONE of the actual game play is ever like they portray it to be.Perhaps,this is a sneaky ploy that works?Perhaps a lot of the NEW gamer,just thinks in there mind,that just maybe that amazing type video i watched really will show up in the game sooner or later.
I noticed the poster after mentions fun/fun FUN .well that is a out right RFLMAO.
WOW and it's game play is no different than any other game out there..AT ALL.The quests are even the same boring ass quests you see everywhere else as well.The gear pretty much functions the EXACT same as any other game,the hotbar,the spells they are all EVERQUEST designed and copied.The game is not about polish at all,i mean they took some former members of EQ,so they had the EXACT idea of how to COPY EQ,they would have to be total boneheads to mess that up.
THE ONLY proponent Blizzard did was make the game easier to play on more systems.I do not believe for a second that this was by design,i believe it was sheer cheapness and wanted the game out fast.It is a good line to use after the fact ,i know they are going to stick to that statement for sure.
The fact WOW runs on weaker systems is perhaps a bigger reason than most may think.All you have to do is wander around all these different simplistic browser games and see how many people out there ,really don't have the systems to play anything decent looking.I have been on a few browser games that have 2+ million subs,that is insane for such a cheap ass product,but it does show how limited people are.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No, I am sorry, but you seem to be mising the point that majority preference dosent define 'fun'.
'Fun' is subjective, and not really a valid critical statement to me, unless I already know you and trust your views and opinions in RL. It is just too vague and is defined by personal taste.
Now... if you wanna tell me why you think something is 'fun' I am listening... It only has value if you quantify it.
Even then, they are just the reasons you find something fun. They may strike a chord with me, they may not.
The reasons, though, WoW is so massive are, still;
I'm not really into carrying on a conversation about WoW right now beyond this though to be honest... Even just talking about the game bores me.
I'll duck out of this thread now
The reasons, though, WoW is so massive are, still;
* It's cheap to set up. (because if people had more money they would play another game?)
* It is easy to use. (because people can't understand other games?)
* It is nicely presented.
* Everyone else is doing it. (Everyone else was doing other games before WoW and they had no trouble moving games)
People are not avoiding other games due to lack of money, lack of ability to understand or no one else is doing it. There are many many reasons why other games are failing to grab bigger subscriber numbers.
While you may not enjoy the game, many other people do for a great number of reasons that have been stated many times. Fine that you don't let other define what is fun, but at the same time don't disregard what the majority of other enjoy just because you refust to acknowledge it. The reasons you list have their place, but in no way to they explain the retention and growth of the game.
WoW is more entertaining to the majority of people in comparison to the rest of the MMOs out. The whys are numberous and do include some of your points to an extent. They however are not by any means the driving force for its popularity.
No, I am sorry, but you seem to be mising the point that majority preference dosent define 'fun'.
'Fun' is subjective, and not really a valid critical statement to me, unless I already know you and trust your views and opinions in RL. It is just too vague and is defined by personal taste.
Now... if you wanna tell me why you think something is 'fun' I am listening... It only has value if you quantify it.
Even then, they are just the reasons you find something fun. They may strike a chord with me, they may not.
The reasons, though, WoW is so massive are, still;
I'm not really into carrying on a conversation about WoW right now beyond this though to be honest... Even just talking about the game bores me.
I'll duck out of this thread now
The reasons, though, WoW is so massive are, still;
* It's cheap to set up. (because if people had more money they would play another game?)
* It is easy to use. (because people can't understand other games?)
* It is nicely presented.
* Everyone else is doing it. (Everyone else was doing other games before WoW and they had no trouble moving games)
People are not avoiding other games due to lack of money, lack of ability to understand or no one else is doing it. There are many many reasons why other games are failing to grab bigger subscriber numbers.
While you may not enjoy the game, many other people do for a great number of reasons that have been stated many times. Fine that you don't let other define what is fun, but at the same time don't disregard what the majority of other enjoy just because you refust to acknowledge it. The reasons you list have their place, but in no way to they explain the retention and growth of the game.
WoW is more entertaining to the majority of people in comparison to the rest of the MMOs out. The whys are numberous and do include some of your points to an extent. They however are not by any means the driving force for its popularity.
When you give "fun" as a reason you have said nothing meaningful as explanation, other than that YOU find the game fun. Now if you can explain why it is fun, then you are starting to say something.
The points Vesavius makes are good ones:
* It's cheap to set up. (because if people had more money they would play another game?) - No. Because system entry requirements are allowing them to try out and play the game when they otherwise might be required to upgrade their computers to play other (newer) MMOs.
* It is easy to use. (because people can't understand other games?) - You've never played EvE.
* It is nicely presented.
* Everyone else [ie. friends] is doing it. (Everyone else was doing other games before WoW and they had no trouble moving games) - Think about it. 11 million players were playing MMOs and all left them to go to WoW? No. WoW created a whole new set of MMO gamers for whom it was (and for many still is) the only MMO they've ever played. This reason cannot be underestimated. Talking with your friends = fun. Playing games with your friends = fun.
And I would add:
* It did more things right than it's competitors. This was particularly true when it first came out. It had good graphics and was a kind of agglomeration and fine tuning of desireable / popular features from other games.
I agree here,especially the last point,that is the big reason it kept getting bigger.
It is pretty amazing that they took the all out marketing approach to build this puppy up.They took there initial success and kept with the same marketing approach all along.Instead of building there game up piece by piece,describing to the potential buyers,the proponents of the game,they used a cheap approach ,by telling everyone out there,"Everyone is playing""We have this many subs".
So potential users are joining up,without any knowledge of the actual game,do you think 90% of these users would have even thought of the game if it used the small marketing you see from Square and FFXI?Why?because there is virtually ZERO marketing for FFXI,try to find an add anywhere,however wow is everywhere.Each and every time,it is the same thing "We have 5/6/7/8/9 10 million subs so join us now".
That in theory is a VERY weak marketing strategy,instead of perhaps lying or making your game out to be something it is not,they just flat out say "Join the masses".Blizzard does of course use some false advertising,there video marketing is all false,NONE of the actual game play is ever like they portray it to be.Perhaps,this is a sneaky ploy that works?Perhaps a lot of the NEW gamer,just thinks in there mind,that just maybe that amazing type video i watched really will show up in the game sooner or later.
I noticed the poster after mentions fun/fun FUN .well that is a out right RFLMAO.
WOW and it's game play is no different than any other game out there..AT ALL.The quests are even the same boring ass quests you see everywhere else as well.The gear pretty much functions the EXACT same as any other game,the hotbar,the spells they are all EVERQUEST designed and copied.The game is not about polish at all,i mean they took some former members of EQ,so they had the EXACT idea of how to COPY EQ,they would have to be total boneheads to mess that up.
THE ONLY proponent Blizzard did was make the game easier to play on more systems.I do not believe for a second that this was by design,i believe it was sheer cheapness and wanted the game out fast.It is a good line to use after the fact ,i know they are going to stick to that statement for sure.
The fact WOW runs on weaker systems is perhaps a bigger reason than most may think.All you have to do is wander around all these different simplistic browser games and see how many people out there ,really don't have the systems to play anything decent looking.I have been on a few browser games that have 2+ million subs,that is insane for such a cheap ass product,but it does show how limited people are.
I'm sorry, but this is just about 90% pure BS. It's a nice theory, the problem is that it has nothing to do with reality.
You are right Tincan in just about everything you listed. Also, I didn't list all the reasons people find WoW fun, because that is a whole different topic. There are plenty of reasons, all subjective, but for reference it is perhaps the most important reason of all.
All of vesuvias points, while valid, are all minor.
-Cheap to set up: There are plenty of people who have nice rigs, but choose not to play games with higher system requirements. Given the choice many people capable of playing other games where cost may be a barrier, they chose WoW. Low system requirements allows more people to try WoW, but it doesn't atuomatically retain them. There are tons of games that can be played on low end systems that just don't do very well. I would go further to say that many of those games that require high end systems only do so, because they just flat out do not perform well. Most of the high end requirements are a necessity due to bad programming and lacking optimization.
-Its easy to play. Yes I have played Eve, but did not much enjoy the game and that is one example of a futurisitic space based sandbox PvP game. It caters to a much different audience. Lets compare WoW to a similar game. EQ2, VG, AoC, Warhammer. Are any of those games beyond normal players ability to understand? If you played any of those games you will understand how to play them all. If you suck at one you will suck at the next one, the same applies if you are great at one you will be great at the next.
-Everyone is doing it? Sure lots of people play WoW now, but that wasn't always the case. Lots of people played EQ, Lineage, etc and they all moved games. Millions of copies of other MMOs have sold just this year in short periods of time. Yes "everyone" was playing those games at launch too, but they sure had problems keeping them. This is very much akin to saying "WoW is only popular, because everyone is playing it". There is a reason so many people play. There is a reason large portions of other games subscribers left their communities and joined WoW.
All of his points, while valid to some degree are all minor. They can be applied to a number of games, but we see the results just are not the same. That means there is far more to the success than he alludes to and specifically what he rails against.
Advertising is a big factor. The only mmorpg I see ads for is WoW. Paying people like Mr. T, William Shatner and Ozzy Osbourne to do adds isn't cheap either. And I see WoW everywhere when browsing.
With Blizzard paying so much more for advertising they would make less profit per $15 than every other mmorpg out there. But when you have 11 million subscribers it doesnt matter.
If you look at all forms of entertainment quantity =/= quality. Britney Spears sells truckloads of records. The new Indiana Jones movie made $600 million worldwide. The [country] Idol format has been a massive success worldwide.
The different between AoC and WAR is that they haven't crossed into mainstream popular culture like WoW has and until another game does (sims, HALO, super mario etc) then WoW will reign. Its got nothing to do with quality. How many new WoW players read reviews of WoW and rival mmog's? How many new WoW players actually look at the mmog market before starting WoW? Very few. Which gets back to the point that everyone else is doing it.
There is no bigger reinforcement of "everyone else is doing it" than advertising.
The big point there is though that quantity doesn't mean it isn't quality either which a lot of people seem to happily argue alongside it.
This is a subscription base service, not a one off purchase or anything. If it didn't have quality it wouldn't be getting the subscribers that it does because they'd be gone after a month or two. I still have friends playing who before WoW would *never* have considered paying monthly for a game and thought the idea in itself was ridiculous yet after I gave them the beta accounts to try it they were won over in a heartbeat.
That's not advertising since there really wasn't any at the time(you could argue viril advertising but I wasn't that adamant since I didn't really expect them to get over the monthly payment anxiety), or popular culture since there wasn't any at the time either. That's simply people getting pulled in by a game on it's own merits. And that's what's surprised me about WoW most of all. It just grabs you and pulls you in, even the people no other MMO would have come close to pulling in. (Showing Daoc to anyone just got a load of yawns back then usually)
WOW did not have 12M subscribers when it launched, but it did have a massively growing player base. While AOC and Warhammer might grow subscribers from their current levels, neither game has ANY chance to ever get back to what they had at launch. All you have to do is look at 'box sales' to see it.
Reasons WOW is 'different'
1. It's polished and fun
2. It runs on every computer
3. It's polished and fun
Since launch, I never had a moment in WOW where I thought " I can tolerate this because I know it will get better in the future". Look at AOC and Warhammer.....all they do is talk about is 'give it time, it's a new game'. WOW was extremely fun from day 1, which is why it's been growing in population since day 1.
There's just one problem with your argument. How do you get to be #1 in the FIRST place? You seem to think it just happens by mere accident. You're wrong. It's no accident that WoW is #1. No, it didn't have 12 million subscribers from day 1, but it had around a million or so and at the time that was huge. Then they continued to add subscriptions at an equally astonishing rate to where they had around 4 million by about the 6 month mark. You think that was some kind of accident? You're fooling yourself. They had a great product and it got around and people joined in because it was great fun, not because of advertising or anything else. In the first couple months of WoW, there wasn't any more advertising for WoW than any other MMO, it was only after it became a smash hit did Blizzard start advertising the game big time when Blizzard knew they had a hit on their hands.
It's fine and dandy to say, well everyone else is doing it, but you can only say that after everyone else IS doing it.
You want to know what it's even better than advertising? Word of mouth and having a great product. I have a group of friends that I have been playing video games with for several years now. A few months before WoW launched we were all playing Enemy Territory together and having an absolute blast. We even bought our own server and recruited more people to play with us. We had a web site with strats and all kinds of other stuff on it. Only 3 guys in that group had played an MMO before, most of them were hard core FPS type guys. I had played Earth and Beyond and really liked it and was dissappointed when they cancelled it. I tried City of Heroes and liked it and tried to get others to play. Others tried it but they all quit. Then I got in the beta for WoW. I realized this was going to take the place of Earth and Beyond for me. I started to tell the others about it, but no one was all that interested. Then the game was released and I had a couple other guys try it. To this day they almost all still play. All those hard core FPS guys could really get into WoW. It's not twitch, but it's as close as you can get to it in an MMO. No other MMO has been able to do that, to get people to swtich to it over there preferred genre. Well WoW did. WoW made people switch. There was a guy in the group that had been playing Guildwars and said that he wouldn't switch because he wasn't going to pay a monthly fee to play a game. I got him to try the demo for just a week to see if he liked it. 4 years later both him AND his wife play and I haven't heard a peep out of him about paying a monthly subscription.
You people just don't get it. No, 12 million subscriptions doesn't equal quality. But quality does equal subscriptions, and I know thousands of satisfied customers.
You are right Tincan in just about everything you listed. Also, I didn't list all the reasons people find WoW fun, because that is a whole different topic. There are plenty of reasons, all subjective, but for reference it is perhaps the most important reason of all.
All of vesuvias points, while valid, are all minor.
-Cheap to set up: There are plenty of people who have nice rigs, but choose not to play games with higher system requirements. Given the choice many people capable of playing other games where cost may be a barrier, they chose WoW. Low system requirements allows more people to try WoW, but it doesn't atuomatically retain them. There are tons of games that can be played on low end systems that just don't do very well. I would go further to say that many of those games that require high end systems only do so, because they just flat out do not perform well. Most of the high end requirements are a necessity due to bad programming and lacking optimization.
-Its easy to play. Yes I have played Eve, but did not much enjoy the game and that is one example of a futurisitic space based sandbox PvP game. It caters to a much different audience. Lets compare WoW to a similar game. EQ2, VG, AoC, Warhammer. Are any of those games beyond normal players ability to understand? If you played any of those games you will understand how to play them all. If you suck at one you will suck at the next one, the same applies if you are great at one you will be great at the next.
-Everyone is doing it? Sure lots of people play WoW now, but that wasn't always the case. Lots of people played EQ, Lineage, etc and they all moved games. Millions of copies of other MMOs have sold just this year in short periods of time. Yes "everyone" was playing those games at launch too, but they sure had problems keeping them. This is very much akin to saying "WoW is only popular, because everyone is playing it". There is a reason so many people play. There is a reason large portions of other games subscribers left their communities and joined WoW.
All of his points, while valid to some degree are all minor. They can be applied to a number of games, but we see the results just are not the same. That means there is far more to the success than he alludes to and specifically what he rails against.
While in isolation I can see how they might seem minor to you, but the fact that they are all mixed together make them and the others mentioned (presentation, doing more things right at the time) quite major in helping explain WoW's popularity. You obviously disagree but don't offer any other explanation besides suggesting that there's "far more." Right...
<Edited by author>
"Subscriptions don't equal quality." Correct.
"Quality does equal subscriptions"? - Wrong. Not always.
You are simply trying to reverse-engineer the Subscriptions = quality fallacy.
Just give it up.
"Subscriptions don't equal quality." Correct.
"Quality does equal subscriptions"? - Wrong. Not always.
You are simply trying to reverse-engineer the Subscriptions = quality fallacy.
Just give it up.
Quality does equal subscriptions. I've seen it dozens of times. All you have to do is get someone to try WoW and usually they will end up paying for it. Not 100% of the time, but enough of the time. They don't even have to like MMO's. They don't have to have ever played an MMO. Heck they don't really even have to like video games. I've seen dozens of friends buy the game only to have their wives try it and even though they never played video games before, suddenly they want their own account. You can't argue with those kinds of stories and it happens ALL the time.
You can INSIST it's a fallacy that WoW is a quality product all you want, that doesn't make it true either. Just give it up.