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a griefing prediction..
It's been discussed that the experienced players will prey on new players making them not want to continue..
FACT: The penatly for killing your own kind is a faction hit.
FACT: If you hit someone in your own faction, you become grey (meaning anyone in your own faction can kill you and not take a faction hit)
FACT: Every attack aside from archery, is an AOE attack.
Discuss.
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
Comments
put your gear in the bank or let a rl freind kill you and loot your gear and trade back hahah im GONNA gank EVERYONE LIKE L2 if the game is actualy playable witch is highly unlikely since it says failure from far away
"We are scanning the scene
In the starting city tonight
We are looking for you
To start up a fight
There is an evil feeling
In our brains
But it is nothing new
You know it drives us insane
Running,
On our way
Hiding,
You will pay
Dying,
One thousand deaths
Running,
On our way
Hiding,
You will pay
Dying,
One thousand deaths
Searching,
Seek and destroy"
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
What I'm getting at is that this is a griefers paradise. Let's say you are fighting goblins, and another of your faction comes and stands in front of you so you'll hit him, and then allow him and his posse to kill you with no penalty.
In the end, if you fought back, and won, you'd of taken a faction hit. But, you still would have died to ganking AND taken a faction hit AND Lost all of your gear.
Now, assume you had numbers as well. So, you are fighting goblins.. guy A runs in and stands infront of your group.. effectivly giving everyone in your group the "grey" status..
I don't think Aventurine thought this through very well.. Or.. if one of the devoted followers could expound the actual "Grey" system. That'd be great.
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
Fact #1: The only way this will work is if there is some godly reward for keeping your faction " loyalty " high.
Fact #2: I guess people will not do something stupid if their " rival " or " hate buddy " is near them.
Fact #3: As long as its believeable I don't really mind it. If a single sword swing knocks down a couple of little flying bats thats fine by me, but a single sword swing cuts through 2 people standing next to each other thats a bit overboard.
This game will probably atract afew WoW kids after 1 month (soo they can get a nice ebay char),then they will gank all they long.
What I'm getting at is that this is a griefers paradise. Let's say you are fighting goblins, and another of your faction comes and stands in front of you so you'll hit him, and then allow him and his posse to kill you with no penalty.
In the end, if you fought back, and won, you'd of taken a faction hit. But, you still would have died to ganking AND taken a faction hit AND Lost all of your gear.
Now, assume you had numbers as well. So, you are fighting goblins.. guy A runs in and stands infront of your group.. effectivly giving everyone in your group the "grey" status..
I don't think Aventurine thought this through very well.. Or.. if one of the devoted followers could expound the actual "Grey" system. That'd be great.
The problem is you can't just say every attack besides archery is AoE lol. At the most you can call it splash damage.
You may hit an ally if your not careful or they aren't but I don't see people making that mistake to often after the first few weeks.
What I'm getting at is that this is a griefers paradise. Let's say you are fighting goblins, and another of your faction comes and stands in front of you so you'll hit him, and then allow him and his posse to kill you with no penalty.
In the end, if you fought back, and won, you'd of taken a faction hit. But, you still would have died to ganking AND taken a faction hit AND Lost all of your gear.
Now, assume you had numbers as well. So, you are fighting goblins.. guy A runs in and stands infront of your group.. effectivly giving everyone in your group the "grey" status..
I don't think Aventurine thought this through very well.. Or.. if one of the devoted followers could expound the actual "Grey" system. That'd be great.
There will be developed player driven mechanisms to prevent griefing that will be more effective then what game mechanic can offer for prevention ...
We have a whole server in a current game NOT attacking anyone because of politics...(k just consensual PvP mostly but will happen in any game with politics, just to not such a extreme )
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You either missed the point, completely ignored it, or you know more on how the grey thing works.
The problem is that people can earn a free kill against you if they take any damage from your attacks. This is ok as long as the attack has to be directed at you. If you can get grey from just splash damage as another player is attacking a different target then this system will fail. There is nothing stopping a group of players to send one of their members in your line of fire to make you a consequence free kill.
Thats a pretty broad carebear statement. You know this game is mainly geared toward pvp situations right?
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
You either missed the point, completely ignored it, or you know more on how the grey thing works.
The problem is that people can earn a free kill against you if they take any damage from your attacks. This is ok as long as the attack has to be directed at you. If you can get grey from just splash damage as another player is attacking a different target then this system will fail. There is nothing stopping a group of players to send one of their members in your line of fire to make you a consequence free kill.
You need minimum a KILL to getting red (not grey) -in fact last time the number was 2 kills
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
You either missed the point, completely ignored it, or you know more on how the grey thing works.
The problem is that people can earn a free kill against you if they take any damage from your attacks. This is ok as long as the attack has to be directed at you. If you can get grey from just splash damage as another player is attacking a different target then this system will fail. There is nothing stopping a group of players to send one of their members in your line of fire to make you a consequence free kill.
Difference between AoE and Splash damage is a lot. Splash damage will only effect you if your actual in the way of the attack, this is avoidable. Simply keep a few steps apart, or stand on the opposite side of the mob.
AoE, is unavoidable if you are within the area of effect. Infront of, behind, etc it doesn't matter.
A bit of difference from splash damage and AoE damage. Once is easy to avoid the other is not.
With friendly fire always on you will have to watch where you swing. If every attack is an AoE this would not be possible.
I don't think I missed the point of the post, I think you missed the point of my correction.
No you did miss it. The OP doesn't care whether it is an AoE or splash damage. Look at the example that the OP gave.
The OP doesn't like the idea that if they are attacking a mob and someone from the same faction gets hit with any type of damage they would get flagged grey. This means the person can be killed by the same faction without a consequence.
So what does that all mean? If you wanna gank just roll a same faction toon and run into the line of fire. You are free to kill the person that hit you ( unintentionally ).
This doesn't really cause a problem if it was a 1 vs 1 fight. However, if you get group of buddys and send 1 person from your group to make another character a consequence free kill, then it becomes a serious exploit of the rules.
Its anarchy PvP.
- No areanas
- No guild wars
- No RvR or factional warefare.
The game will have no direction or reason to PvP other than to grief.
-------------------------
You either missed the point, completely ignored it, or you know more on how the grey thing works.
The problem is that people can earn a free kill against you if they take any damage from your attacks. This is ok as long as the attack has to be directed at you. If you can get grey from just splash damage as another player is attacking a different target then this system will fail. There is nothing stopping a group of players to send one of their members in your line of fire to make you a consequence free kill.
Difference between AoE and Splash damage is a lot. Splash damage will only effect you if your actual in the way of the attack, this is avoidable. Simply keep a few steps apart, or stand on the opposite side of the mob.
AoE, is unavoidable if you are within the area of effect. Infront of, behind, etc it doesn't matter.
A bit of difference from splash damage and AoE damage. Once is easy to avoid the other is not.
With friendly fire always on you will have to watch where you swing. If every attack is an AoE this would not be possible.
I don't think I missed the point of the post, I think you missed the point of my correction.
Maybe I'm not understanding your response. What I said was that the "enemy" wants to get hit by you to make you a free kill, so splash/aoe damage does the trick.. and all they'll need to do is stand next to your intended target... Boom.. You swing and.. You're grey. With the FPS perspective in combat mode, you won't be able to see someone trying to make you a free kill, either.
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
I could be wrong about this because I read it on the forums and not from an official quote, but I believe that you're giving a choice upon death to penalize.
So, if it's a friend they won't take a hit, but if you're a ganker you'll get tagged. I'm sure that there will be times when you're jumping in to help another person from the same faction and they flag you for splash or AE damage. That's the drama I love in the game, keeps things lively.
If you're at war with another guild I don't think there's any faction hit so there will be some free killing going on.
Asdar
These two statements are wrong.
One -- THERE WILL be guild wars, I can promise that.
Two -- did you even read the OP? THERE ARE FACTIONS.. just not the WoW bs with pretend friends..
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
We are not aware as such until the game goes live, but you will have racial PvP so you are wrong to assume total anarchy will be present. You will be joining this game in a PvP format and if you are not prepared to accept that then the answer is not to.
There are always going to be players in any PvP situation who are going to grief others, sadly that's the nature of the beast and this has gone on for many years and will go on for ever no matter what system you put in place and it will never please 100% of the gaming population.
We can debate this until the game goes live but until we see it then we are all just guessing.
Asbo
I don't think a lot of players on this forum really know what 'anti-social' players are. They are thinking you are talking about 'accidently' being damaged by someone elses spells. In UO, we called it a 'noto' kill.. for 'noteriety'... or 'making someone go grey".
You are out killing something. You are at half-health. I can't kill you because I don't want to take the faction hit.
So instead, I wait for you to cast a spell, then I step 'into' it and take a small amount of damage. YOU GO GREY because you damaged me. I kill you without any faction reduction. If you happen to kill me, you get a murder count.
That is just the most basic example. UO had a ton of exploits and way more elaborate ways of making someone go grey so you could kill them. Red players were ok, because you knew they were killers. Players that noto'd you weren't as noticable because they never got murder-counts for killing people. They used game mechanisms into tricking players into going grey.
Another way noto players will work.
You are out hunting. I start hunting in the same area. I invite you to group with me so we can kill stuff faster. I may even offer to heal for you. My friends walk up. I cast a small damage spell on one of my friends and you and I both go grey. My friends then proceed to kill you without getting a murder count.
Now you might say " well, they would not do it that way.. they wouldn't make 'me' go grey because you attacked someone". Well then what will happen is that everyone will bring along a 'blue healer'. Me and my friend willl walk around til we see someone. I'll kill you while my friend heals me, and you won't be able to attack him.
This is the main problem with the ruleset that Darkfall is bringing.. it is identical to what was exploited to death in UO.
That is after death. There needs to be a flagging system while you are still alive. Otherwise, your attacker will simply attack you to the brink of death and let another person or an npc kill you. It would be ridiculous to not allow the person to fight back after being attacked.
Ahh, my mistake, I misunderstood the direction of the thread.
I have seen just what you're talking about, and how to get around the limitations. I always felt it wasn't too bad, I just learned who I grouped with and we didn't take in strangers. I'm sure some people will use the healer trick, but I don't think it's a game stopper.
The biggest worry I had about darkfall was players going invisible. If they have to hang out and skulk, then I can avoid most of these situations. I do think you had a good point, it would be nice if they could do something about people abusing the system instead of taking the faction hit they deserve. I think in a sandbox you try to control that with reputation. Reporting someone abusing the system will mean something to good guilds.
Asdar
Easy way to fix problem 1. Make it where if you have dealt damage to a enemy like a goblin, not another player, you can not go grey for hitting some1 else who intentionally, or not intentionally, stepped into your attack from someone for about 5 seconds. Meaning if im killin a goblin then you try to make me hit you with splash damage or sumthing, then i would not go grey.
also if the other person decided to attack a goblin so he wouldnt go to grey either just so he could attack you intentionally would still get the murder charge if he finish him/her off.
But there is 1 flaw with that. If i hit you then you may think that i go grey then started trying to kill me gettin you to go to grey.
Get rid of grey completely.
If you attack someone, and kill them.. you get a hit to faction.. same goes for if they attack you and you kill them. Then, if someones going to be a killer.. than they are going to be a killer.. If you kill them.. you get their stuff..
"Luckily I know that while you make nonsnese baiting threads that get locked....threads I make get sticked by the mods on this forum...." -imbant (greatest board warrior EVER)
Darkfall Countdown: http://darkfallreleasedate.com/
yes thats a even better idea.
But lets face it. We know the hardcore people would like that but most people will find this game and will hate that idea becuz they like carebear games.
for example your out in the woodand you find a noob fighting running from gobblins. you decide to damage him so he dies from the goblins more easily. the noob dies hates the game then gives it bad reviews cuz he died. then,not all, but sum people will not want to try this game cuz that 1 review he read.
ANTI SQUADS already waiting to kill the griefers/pk dont worrie:)
We will protect the weak and new arrivals all who try disturb the piece with feel our ANTI WRATH fall upon you:)
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.