Right now it's not hard because there's hardly anyone outside the "Aventurine circle of trust" playing Beta! Besides how would they prosecute a Chinese player? All they could do is find out who it was and ban thier IP, which let's face it is a minor deterent at best! For a proper closed Beta it would be too difficult to pinpoint who breaks an NDA if they just black out certain stuff in screenshots/videos, but this isn't a proper closed Beta in my opinion.
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
thers is truly around 500-700 testers and this increases daily
and no its not like a normal closed beta
Down, I can promise you, if anyone outside of Greece signed that contract and breached it, there would be no way to enforce it no matter what Aventurine put in it.
What do you think, a country is going to pay to extradite someone to Greece for breaching a friggin' NDA for a game? I know for sure a U.S. court would be too busy laughing their ass off at Tasos' audacity to even try to consider enforcing the contract.
Even if Down were to prove it to you that he were in beta, what makes you think that you're so special that we'd all believe it because you verify it? Down wants to say he has friends in beta, so be it. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But to come off with the "prove it and I'll tell everyone you're for real", like anyone takes your opinion/statements so highly that we'll all say "Oh, look! Reaper verified it!", is quite funny.
The punishment of being banned from game alone seems to be a fairly harsh penalty
looks lik,e the testers like to play it ...
True, not really possible to stop them playing after release but I think it's more of a moral question. I'm there to help make the game better, even if it sux at the moment it's no excuse to tell the world. Only if I saw they were testing out features they told the playerbase weren't going to happen let's say an NGE or cash shop situation then I'd have no reason to leak anything, in my opinion.
I suppose it's down to the individual's own morality, not legal threats we know will not be followed through on.
BTW: Yes I played pre-CU!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I don't give a shit about any of these bullshit Q&A's by this monkey Tasos. This Q&A could of been held 4 years ago and the EXACT same thing would have been said in it. Which goes back to my comment on how they started giving info too early. If they had waiting till now, it would've been new. Of course the scrap they did kind of made that hard. The fact of the matter is it's 1 month from a commercial launch and THEY STILL can't let in people from the general public to play test this thing. That is planned for January. In fact there's a press beta that's not confirmed, but implied by the 1 beta contest post on mmorpg.it. Want to know why they don't have USA servers? Because they don't have a USA publisher because the game is too muych of a POS to get one...... but beyond that they're going to use this half assed Euro launch as a pay to play Beta launch.. No, they "can't" get a publisher because all the publishers they have want more than just a piece of the pie. Most publishers want FULL rights to the game.
MMO companies have never gone through with prosecuting a person over breaking the NDA of a closed Beta, no matter what the offenders nation of residence was.
You prosecute someone for a criminal offense, like robbery or fraud. A breach of an NDA would be a civil matter, basically a breach of contract, and you do not "prosecute" someone over this, you would sue them. To prevail in a lawsuit and win money, you'd have to show damages, unless the NDA contract has a provision for liquidated damages, which game NDA's never do.
For example, the NDA would state that if you breach the NDA you owe the game company liquidated damages of 10K. Who's going to sign that just to play a game? The liquidated damages clause would mean they don't have to prove damages in court, since both parties agreed in the contract ahead of time what the damage amount would be.
It's unlikely you could show any court real damages, and if you sued someone for breach on an NDA they might prevail in counter-suing you for a frivolous lawsuit, and forcing you to pay all their court costs and attorney fees.
That's why the only recourse when someone breaks a game NDA is usually to ban them from the game, and that's about it.
Are you implying that no NDA's can be enforced, ever, in any company? Are you a law student? Because if you are, you might want to look that subject up again. Not saying they can sue anyone that breaks it, but they can ban them easily. Suing happens when the info actually damages the company such as if your an employee giving source code.
Triple posting makes you smarter!
I believe the argument was regarding game NDA's...don't warp the argument to make yourself look "smarter".
Why would it matter if he was a law student? If you know anything about law school you'd know that game NDA cases/breech of contract issues regarding game NDA's aren't a blip on the radar in the course materials. Nice try.
That is what most were saying would happen, a simple ban would be the consequence. Those that think a suit would follow are delusional.
The information must be actively protected by the company for them to be able to seek monetary damages, which if you signed an NDA would be true. You also need to weigh legal costs against what would be gained from actively pursuing NDA breakers -- in this case, not worth anything more than a account ban.
That's what pisses me off about these forums, the thread has been taken completely off-topic by just one sad little dude. It only took but one person to F- up an actual decant discussion / semi-debate on MMORPG.com, lol.
--
Oh and about the handful of newbies being able to take on a veteran, don't take that totally out of context. These 'newbies' would've probably have to of been playing for a couple of weeks already, to have slightly OK armor, and skills. And, I do believe the actual quote said something along the lines of the veteran being average in skill.
Keep in mind, that these newbies would have to be pretty damn good players (they'll be worrying about friendly fire, whilst the one veteran can slash his weapon all over the place hitting multiple targets (which can be done according to the tester impressions)), so yeah. The Veteran would have to be a fairly low-skilled player, whilst the newbs probably being rather great players. Plus, there needs to be a handful of these newbies.
So don't go thinking gear in this game is totally worthless, because it's not. And don't go thinking that as soon as you start out in newbie camp, you can compete against a decant player right away, because you can't due to your skills and gear.
But yeah, a "handful" of decant new players, will apparently be able to compete with an average-skilled Vet.
_________ Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
this game sounds more and more like Vanguard with full loot PVP than ever, not that this is bad. I just hope they launch a heck of alot more ready than VG launched lol
exceept vanguard had a flaw and that is levels also needed alot more time in beta
DF has levels, it may not be literaly called a level as you progress through the game, but it HAS levels.
PS "levels" as such have been a major part or P&P and Computer RPG's since thier conception, in one form or another, just as they are a part of Darkfall.
50 newbs cant touch a hgih level person in a game like wow or even vanguard sorry cant be dont
4 newbs can take a vet in darkfall
LOL statetement of the day award...
wow= 3 noobs can kill a vet its just icon mouse spamming no skilll required
DF= 3 noobs wiil kill eachother or miss with their swords trying to hit the vet since its manual and up to player skill combat
P.S. u r in serious need to learn to read game features 1st and STOP trolling and telling lies
Right now it's not hard because there's hardly anyone outside the "Aventurine circle of trust" playing Beta! Besides how would they prosecute a Chinese player? All they could do is find out who it was and ban thier IP, which let's face it is a minor deterent at best! For a proper closed Beta it would be too difficult to pinpoint who breaks an NDA if they just black out certain stuff in screenshots/videos, but this isn't a proper closed Beta in my opinion.
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
lol there's some funny s#!t right there!!! opiumkingVS downtoearth the one is clearly talking out of his @$$ without proving anything he says, the other one claims to have proof but he can't use them in public. LIke watching 2 dogs tied to a couple of trees a facing each other couple of feet apart from where their ropes end and trying to bite each others throat without actually being able to reach one another...........and here i thought this thread would be boring *grabs some sunflower seeds and enjoys the show*
Right now it's not hard because there's hardly anyone outside the "Aventurine circle of trust" playing Beta! Besides how would they prosecute a Chinese player? All they could do is find out who it was and ban thier IP, which let's face it is a minor deterent at best! For a proper closed Beta it would be too difficult to pinpoint who breaks an NDA if they just black out certain stuff in screenshots/videos, but this isn't a proper closed Beta in my opinion.
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
thers is truly around 500-700 testers and this increases daily
and no its not like a normal closed beta
Down, I can promise you, if anyone outside of Greece signed that contract and breached it, there would be no way to enforce it no matter what Aventurine put in it.
What do you think, a country is going to pay to extradite someone to Greece for breaching a friggin' NDA for a game? I know for sure a U.S. court would be too busy laughing their ass off at Tasos' audacity to even try to consider enforcing the contract.
Even if Down were to prove it to you that he were in beta, what makes you think that you're so special that we'd all believe it because you verify it? Down wants to say he has friends in beta, so be it. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But to come off with the "prove it and I'll tell everyone you're for real", like anyone takes your opinion/statements so highly that we'll all say "Oh, look! Reaper verified it!", is quite funny.
These forums never fail to entertain, amuse and surprise. I would never have believed that anyone would be silly enough to think anyone would be prosecuted for violating a beta game NDA -- especially if you're playing from a different country. LMAO at the stupidity!
These forums never fail to entertain, amuse and surprise. I would never have believed that anyone would be silly enough to think anyone would be prosecuted for violating a beta game NDA -- especially if you're playing from a different country. LMAO at the stupidity!
It is especially funny that people say the NDA is scary. I signed and faxed some greek legal dribble...
Hah if anyone breached an NDA I doubt they would go bragging about it.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
How is that talking out of the side of your mouth? If you intend to specialize in magery, than of course you would need to learn LESSER power before GREATER power. There will also be plenty of hybrids. A few abilities will be needed before gaining access to others "Oh look, I can can cast such powerful spells, but not those simple ones"? Kind of logical.
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
this game sounds more and more like Vanguard with full loot PVP than ever, not that this is bad. I just hope they launch a heck of alot more ready than VG launched lol
exceept vanguard had a flaw and that is levels also needed alot more time in beta
DF has levels, it may not be literaly called a level as you progress through the game, but it HAS levels.
PS "levels" as such have been a major part or P&P and Computer RPG's since thier conception, in one form or another, just as they are a part of Darkfall.
50 newbs cant touch a hgih level person in a game like wow or even vanguard sorry cant be dont
4 newbs can take a vet in darkfall
LOL statetement of the day award...
wow= 3 noobs can kill a vet its just icon mouse spamming no skilll required
DF= 3 noobs wiil kill eachother or miss with their swords trying to hit the vet since its manual and up to player skill combat
P.S. u r in serious need to learn to read game features 1st and STOP trolling and telling lies
cough cough have oyue ver tried attacking a high level player when you way lower level is not even possible
Right now it's not hard because there's hardly anyone outside the "Aventurine circle of trust" playing Beta! Besides how would they prosecute a Chinese player? All they could do is find out who it was and ban thier IP, which let's face it is a minor deterent at best! For a proper closed Beta it would be too difficult to pinpoint who breaks an NDA if they just black out certain stuff in screenshots/videos, but this isn't a proper closed Beta in my opinion.
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
If this were true then Blizzard would not have been able to sue and win said lawsuit against RMT companies. It was a violation of the user agreement they agreed to.
Aside from that, they would not need to present it to every state etc. All they need is for a decent lawyer specializing in international law. Which is what most companies use for things like this................. but hey, maybe you are right.
Years ago, my law firm used to get a fairly steady stream of panicked callers a month or so after returning from China where they showed their product, prototype or product drawings to Chinese OEM (original equipment manufacturing) companies. They were calling us in a panic because they had shown their product, prototype, or product design drawings around China (in some instances they had even left it there) and now everyone there had gone silent. They would typically ask if we thought a Chinese company might be using their information to copy their product. I would then ask them if they had required the Chinese companies to sign any sort of agreement before turning over the information. After a long pause, they would invariably answer, "no," and then usually ask about suing. I would then explain how the copying of a product in this sort of situation was probably a violation of Chinese law, but . . . .
I realized the other day that these calls have almost completely ceased and I think the increasing use of nondisclosure agreements is why. Our more typical call now is from a consultant or manufacturer seeking our help in drafting a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before heading off to China with a prototype/product/drawing for OEM quotes.
Smart.
We love NDAs. They are simple, effective, and telling.
Simple, because they tend not to vary all that much from company to company or from product to product. We like putting in an attorneys' fee provision and a provision regarding injunctive relief. We always do them in both English and Chinese, nearly always for a flat fee.
Effective, because the Chinese courts are getting familiar with them and will generally enforce them.
Telling, because we have found that if a Chinese manufacturer refuses to sign one, this is probably not the Chinese manufacturer with whom you want to do business.
NDAs: Do not leave home without one.
See other posts in: Legal News
Comments
Good advice indeed. We have NDA's with all suppliers and our customers but I've often wondered how much they are worth given the size of our company and our business in China. I've sat with suppliers who we have NDA's with and they've openly shown us or told us information about our competition that I think they'd considered to be company confidential. It bloody horrifies me sometimes and I have to tell suppliers (even customers sometimes) that we're not interested in getting information like that. When I ask if they have NDA's with the company whose info they are are sharing it's always 'No' - something I find hard to believe given our line of business and the companies we compete with.
We've even been given samples of parts from our competition by (Chinese) senior sourcing and purchasing staff at a large multi-national OEM. I was even more shocked at that since I know for a fact that the person who gave us them had signed a confidentiality/non-disclosure contract with his employer. If we were caught with the samples we'd have to chose between admitting where we go them, and then losing the business through revenge from his colleagues or lying and trying to protect him and possibly losing the business as well.
As always in China - complain all you want but lead by example. *>* :-)
NDA's are enforced world wide for the most part. If you agree to it and break it you can be held accountable, regardless of where you live for the most part. There are some countries that will not necessarily enforce an NDA, those are becoming few and far between though.
But hey again you may be correct, and I may not be.
How is that talking out of the side of your mouth? If you intend to specialize in magery, than of course you would need to learn LESSER power before GREATER power. There will also be plenty of hybrids. A few abilities will be needed before gaining access to others "Oh look, I can can cast such powerful spells, but not those simple ones"? Kind of logical.
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
Unless of course that there are some restrictions on the levels of spells or Schools of Magic that we don't know about yet. We already know that there are prerequisite skills needed for using certain items, and casting certain spells. What other kinds of restrictions there are... we don't know yet.
From the quotes I've posted below from the Dev. Journals it is clear that you will not be able to use anything and everything, nor will you be able to cast whatever spells you want from Day One.
You will either have to actively manage which skills that your character advances so that you gain the skills necessary to use the items you want to use, or cast the spells you want.
Or, you will just play how you want and just use what you can use when you find it.
Either way, without knowing quite a bit more about how the prerequisites works, or how hard it is to maintain the multiple skill levels in various skills needed to be able to accomplish what you've laid out... we don't really know if that is possible or not.
"On item IDs, meaning what you'll find out about an item you've got. You will get information about damage protections, weight, value, durability, critical hit capacity, who crafted it, who enchanted it, minimum skill to use, what enchantment is on it, a basic description and of course the name of the item."
"Spells go up in power based on skill level. Take a fireball for instance; there are a few points in a character's skill progression where the spell gets a power boost until it maxes out. This boost isn't linear. The difference between a 99 skill and a 100 skill fireball for example is really large. You get one really powerful fireball at 100 and then your skill drops to 99 again and you have to get it back up to fire it again.
Another answer to what this question may be asking is that there are skill tree-like prerequisites for casting certain spells. So you need one before you can start casting the other. "
Right now it's not hard because there's hardly anyone outside the "Aventurine circle of trust" playing Beta! Besides how would they prosecute a Chinese player? All they could do is find out who it was and ban thier IP, which let's face it is a minor deterent at best! For a proper closed Beta it would be too difficult to pinpoint who breaks an NDA if they just black out certain stuff in screenshots/videos, but this isn't a proper closed Beta in my opinion.
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
If this were true then Blizzard would not have been able to sue and win said lawsuit against RMT companies. It was a violation of the user agreement they agreed to.
Aside from that, they would not need to present it to every state etc. All they need is for a decent lawyer specializing in international law. Which is what most companies use for things like this................. but hey, maybe you are right.
Years ago, my law firm used to get a fairly steady stream of panicked callers a month or so after returning from China where they showed their product, prototype or product drawings to Chinese OEM (original equipment manufacturing) companies. They were calling us in a panic because they had shown their product, prototype, or product design drawings around China (in some instances they had even left it there) and now everyone there had gone silent. They would typically ask if we thought a Chinese company might be using their information to copy their product. I would then ask them if they had required the Chinese companies to sign any sort of agreement before turning over the information. After a long pause, they would invariably answer, "no," and then usually ask about suing. I would then explain how the copying of a product in this sort of situation was probably a violation of Chinese law, but . . . .
I realized the other day that these calls have almost completely ceased and I think the increasing use of nondisclosure agreements is why. Our more typical call now is from a consultant or manufacturer seeking our help in drafting a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before heading off to China with a prototype/product/drawing for OEM quotes.
Smart.
We love NDAs. They are simple, effective, and telling.
Simple, because they tend not to vary all that much from company to company or from product to product. We like putting in an attorneys' fee provision and a provision regarding injunctive relief. We always do them in both English and Chinese, nearly always for a flat fee.
Effective, because the Chinese courts are getting familiar with them and will generally enforce them.
Telling, because we have found that if a Chinese manufacturer refuses to sign one, this is probably not the Chinese manufacturer with whom you want to do business.
NDAs: Do not leave home without one.
See other posts in: Legal News
Comments
Good advice indeed. We have NDA's with all suppliers and our customers but I've often wondered how much they are worth given the size of our company and our business in China. I've sat with suppliers who we have NDA's with and they've openly shown us or told us information about our competition that I think they'd considered to be company confidential. It bloody horrifies me sometimes and I have to tell suppliers (even customers sometimes) that we're not interested in getting information like that. When I ask if they have NDA's with the company whose info they are are sharing it's always 'No' - something I find hard to believe given our line of business and the companies we compete with.
We've even been given samples of parts from our competition by (Chinese) senior sourcing and purchasing staff at a large multi-national OEM. I was even more shocked at that since I know for a fact that the person who gave us them had signed a confidentiality/non-disclosure contract with his employer. If we were caught with the samples we'd have to chose between admitting where we go them, and then losing the business through revenge from his colleagues or lying and trying to protect him and possibly losing the business as well.
As always in China - complain all you want but lead by example. *>* :-)
NDA's are enforced world wide for the most part. If you agree to it and break it you can be held accountable, regardless of where you live for the most part. There are some countries that will not necessarily enforce an NDA, those are becoming few and far between though.
But hey again you may be correct, and I may not be.
Nice little blurb there about NDA's as to how they relate to equipment manufacturing. I could see how someone breaking an NDA on that would severely impact your business and you could prove a monetary loss. It would make sense to take whatever legal action was necessary against them in that case.
I might have missed it, but where was the part that blurb talked about Video Game Beta NDA's again? Or any legal action taken against someone who had broken a Video Game Beta NDA? Especially if they are from a foreign company?
I'm not all that smart, so it's entirely possible that it was in there, and I just missed it.
If this were true then Blizzard would not have been able to sue and win said lawsuit against RMT companies. It was a violation of the user agreement they agreed to. Aside from that, they would not need to present it to every state etc. All they need is for a decent lawyer specializing in international law. Which is what most companies use for things like this................. but hey, maybe you are right.
Here's a nice little read for ya.......... http://www.chinalawblog.com/2006/12/china_non_disclosure_agreement.html NDA's are enforced world wide for the most part. If you agree to it and break it you can be held accountable, regardless of where you live for the most part. There are some countries that will not necessarily enforce an NDA, those are becoming few and far between though. But hey again you may be correct, and I may not be.
Wow nice. You managed to find a blog talking about manufacturing NDA's. Wait, a blog about manufacturing...thought we were talking about game beta NDA's?? Enforcing protection of real property or real intellectual property (as I'm sure you'll say source code or game mechanics can be considered property) is slightly different than enforcing a "don't tell anyone about our game" NDA.
You are correct, just regarding something completely different. Stealing a prototype or a manufacturing process is not the same as disclosing the status of a video game beta or alpha for that matter.
Also, regarding the Blizzard RMT deal, they were able to bring suit against the RMT company because they were profitting on a large scale by selling in-game virtual items; which essentially all belong to Blizzard because they own the intellectual property rights to the game. It was also against the EULA which gave Blizzard clear justification to sue.
So no, the manufacturing NDA doesn't prove much regarding the game beta NDA. They won't come to your house in black SUV's and waterboard you until you give up all the NDA breaking commies in-game.
How is that talking out of the side of your mouth? If you intend to specialize in magery, than of course you would need to learn LESSER power before GREATER power. There will also be plenty of hybrids. A few abilities will be needed before gaining access to others "Oh look, I can can cast such powerful spells, but not those simple ones"? Kind of logical.
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
Notice, you didn't answer the question. I understand that in theory you will be able to use a two-handed axe as a Mage type character. What I suspect, which has happened to my knowledge in all the other 'classless' games, is that the vast majority of players will be forced into specialized roles. Either PVE or PVP gameplay will force them to. Yes there will be some rebels, but for the most part you'll find players playing ranged DPS, tanks, and healers. And those rebels will be at a disadvantage when trying to find a group, when playing PVP or PVE.
Well, the biggest difference between the Skill system, and min-max classes, is that say you decided to start off as mainly a robe wearing spell caster, but you didn't like it. In a class based game, you'd have to completely reroll, starting over from scratch.. In the skill based game, just grab a sword and some armor- BAM, you can become a melee oriented character with some practice (skill-ups). You don't have to unlearn your magic, and can even use the skills you learned prior in conjunction with the skills you are trying to level up. SO, there may be some skills that are more usefull then others, but if you level other less usefull skills, you can still switch over and learn the more usefull skills and still be as competative as someone who chose to only level the superior skills. You can constantly change your character, and don't have to reroll a new character to try out different styles of playing.
Well, the biggest difference between the Skill system, and min-max classes, is that say you decided to start off as mainly a robe wearing spell caster, but you didn't like it. In a class based game, you'd have to completely reroll, starting over from scratch.. In the skill based game, just grab a sword and some armor- BAM, you can become a melee oriented character with some practice (skill-ups). You don't have to unlearn your magic, and can even use the skills you learned prior in conjunction with the skills you are trying to level up. SO, there may be some skills that are more usefull then others, but if you level other less usefull skills, you can still switch over and learn the more usefull skills and still be as competative as someone who chose to only level the superior skills. You can constantly change your character, and don't have to reroll a new character to try out different styles of playing.
What happens if I want to quickly switch from a robe wearing fire mage to a plate armor wearing knight? A revolutionary idea would be to make two characters, so that I could play either as situation or whim demanded.
If you're letting people in daily then why not save yourself the trouble and just let EVERYONE in.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to hand pick people for testing and have an NDA 1 month before your game is supposed to go public. Especially when he also says there have been no problems.....
There haven't been any problems for the last 7 years... yet here we still are............................................................waiting to play.
Comments
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
thers is truly around 500-700 testers and this increases daily
and no its not like a normal closed beta
Down, I can promise you, if anyone outside of Greece signed that contract and breached it, there would be no way to enforce it no matter what Aventurine put in it.
What do you think, a country is going to pay to extradite someone to Greece for breaching a friggin' NDA for a game? I know for sure a U.S. court would be too busy laughing their ass off at Tasos' audacity to even try to consider enforcing the contract.
@Reaper1122:
Even if Down were to prove it to you that he were in beta, what makes you think that you're so special that we'd all believe it because you verify it? Down wants to say he has friends in beta, so be it. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But to come off with the "prove it and I'll tell everyone you're for real", like anyone takes your opinion/statements so highly that we'll all say "Oh, look! Reaper verified it!", is quite funny.
The punishment of being banned from game alone seems to be a fairly harsh penalty
looks lik,e the testers like to play it ...
True, not really possible to stop them playing after release but I think it's more of a moral question. I'm there to help make the game better, even if it sux at the moment it's no excuse to tell the world. Only if I saw they were testing out features they told the playerbase weren't going to happen let's say an NGE or cash shop situation then I'd have no reason to leak anything, in my opinion.
I suppose it's down to the individual's own morality, not legal threats we know will not be followed through on.
BTW: Yes I played pre-CU!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
A risk of what?
It doesn't matter if anyone signed something or just CLICKED A BUTTON SAYING "AGREE" ON IT.
It's the same damn thing and CANNOT BE ENFORCED.
What do you think they're going to do? Try to drag hundreds of people into a court room to try to enforce a NDA?
Are you implying that no NDA's can be enforced, ever, in any company?
Are you a law student?
Because if you are, you might want to look that subject up again.
Not saying they can sue anyone that breaks it, but they can ban them easily.
Suing happens when the info actually damages the company such as if your an employee giving source code.
You prosecute someone for a criminal offense, like robbery or fraud. A breach of an NDA would be a civil matter, basically a breach of contract, and you do not "prosecute" someone over this, you would sue them. To prevail in a lawsuit and win money, you'd have to show damages, unless the NDA contract has a provision for liquidated damages, which game NDA's never do.
For example, the NDA would state that if you breach the NDA you owe the game company liquidated damages of 10K. Who's going to sign that just to play a game? The liquidated damages clause would mean they don't have to prove damages in court, since both parties agreed in the contract ahead of time what the damage amount would be.
It's unlikely you could show any court real damages, and if you sued someone for breach on an NDA they might prevail in counter-suing you for a frivolous lawsuit, and forcing you to pay all their court costs and attorney fees.
That's why the only recourse when someone breaks a game NDA is usually to ban them from the game, and that's about it.
Triple posting makes you smarter!
I believe the argument was regarding game NDA's...don't warp the argument to make yourself look "smarter".
Why would it matter if he was a law student? If you know anything about law school you'd know that game NDA cases/breech of contract issues regarding game NDA's aren't a blip on the radar in the course materials. Nice try.
That is what most were saying would happen, a simple ban would be the consequence. Those that think a suit would follow are delusional.
The information must be actively protected by the company for them to be able to seek monetary damages, which if you signed an NDA would be true. You also need to weigh legal costs against what would be gained from actively pursuing NDA breakers -- in this case, not worth anything more than a account ban.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
*sigh*
That's what pisses me off about these forums, the thread has been taken completely off-topic by just one sad little dude. It only took but one person to F- up an actual decant discussion / semi-debate on MMORPG.com, lol.
--
Oh and about the handful of newbies being able to take on a veteran, don't take that totally out of context. These 'newbies' would've probably have to of been playing for a couple of weeks already, to have slightly OK armor, and skills. And, I do believe the actual quote said something along the lines of the veteran being average in skill.
Keep in mind, that these newbies would have to be pretty damn good players (they'll be worrying about friendly fire, whilst the one veteran can slash his weapon all over the place hitting multiple targets (which can be done according to the tester impressions)), so yeah. The Veteran would have to be a fairly low-skilled player, whilst the newbs probably being rather great players. Plus, there needs to be a handful of these newbies.
So don't go thinking gear in this game is totally worthless, because it's not. And don't go thinking that as soon as you start out in newbie camp, you can compete against a decant player right away, because you can't due to your skills and gear.
But yeah, a "handful" of decant new players, will apparently be able to compete with an average-skilled Vet.
_________
Currently playing: Black Desert Korea (Waiting for EU)
Always hating on instances in MMOs! Open worlds, open PvP, territory control and housing please. More persistence, more fun.
exceept vanguard had a flaw and that is levels also needed alot more time in beta
DF has levels, it may not be literaly called a level as you progress through the game, but it HAS levels.
PS "levels" as such have been a major part or P&P and Computer RPG's since thier conception, in one form or another, just as they are a part of Darkfall.
50 newbs cant touch a hgih level person in a game like wow or even vanguard sorry cant be dont
4 newbs can take a vet in darkfall
LOL statetement of the day award...
wow= 3 noobs can kill a vet its just icon mouse spamming no skilll required
DF= 3 noobs wiil kill eachother or miss with their swords trying to hit the vet since its manual and up to player skill combat
P.S. u r in serious need to learn to read game features 1st and STOP trolling and telling lies
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
lol
there's some funny s#!t right there!!! opiumking
VS downtoearth
the one is clearly talking out of his @$$ without proving anything he says, the other one claims to have proof but he can't use them in public. LIke watching 2 dogs tied to a couple of trees a facing each other couple of feet apart from where their ropes end and trying to bite each others throat without actually being able to reach one another...........and here i thought this thread would be boring *grabs some sunflower seeds and enjoys the show* 
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
thers is truly around 500-700 testers and this increases daily
and no its not like a normal closed beta
Down, I can promise you, if anyone outside of Greece signed that contract and breached it, there would be no way to enforce it no matter what Aventurine put in it.
What do you think, a country is going to pay to extradite someone to Greece for breaching a friggin' NDA for a game? I know for sure a U.S. court would be too busy laughing their ass off at Tasos' audacity to even try to consider enforcing the contract.
@Reaper1122:
Even if Down were to prove it to you that he were in beta, what makes you think that you're so special that we'd all believe it because you verify it? Down wants to say he has friends in beta, so be it. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. But to come off with the "prove it and I'll tell everyone you're for real", like anyone takes your opinion/statements so highly that we'll all say "Oh, look! Reaper verified it!", is quite funny.
Spot on Zorvan. On both topics.
These forums never fail to entertain, amuse and surprise. I would never have believed that anyone would be silly enough to think anyone would be prosecuted for violating a beta game NDA -- especially if you're playing from a different country. LMAO at the stupidity!
It is especially funny that people say the NDA is scary. I signed and faxed some greek legal dribble...
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Hah if anyone breached an NDA I doubt they would go bragging about it.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
exceept vanguard had a flaw and that is levels also needed alot more time in beta
DF has levels, it may not be literaly called a level as you progress through the game, but it HAS levels.
PS "levels" as such have been a major part or P&P and Computer RPG's since thier conception, in one form or another, just as they are a part of Darkfall.
50 newbs cant touch a hgih level person in a game like wow or even vanguard sorry cant be dont
4 newbs can take a vet in darkfall
LOL statetement of the day award...
wow= 3 noobs can kill a vet its just icon mouse spamming no skilll required
DF= 3 noobs wiil kill eachother or miss with their swords trying to hit the vet since its manual and up to player skill combat
P.S. u r in serious need to learn to read game features 1st and STOP trolling and telling lies
cough cough have oyue ver tried attacking a high level player when you way lower level is not even possible
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
If this were true then Blizzard would not have been able to sue and win said lawsuit against RMT companies. It was a violation of the user agreement they agreed to.
Aside from that, they would not need to present it to every state etc. All they need is for a decent lawyer specializing in international law. Which is what most companies use for things like this................. but hey, maybe you are right.
Here's a nice little read for ya..........
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2006/12/china_non_disclosure_agreement.html
China Non Disclosure Agreements (NDA)-- Don't Leave Home Without One (Or Many)
Posted by Dan on December 21, 2006 at 01:45 PM
Discussion: Comments (6) : TrackBacks (0) : Linking Blogs : Add to del.icio.us
Years ago, my law firm used to get a fairly steady stream of panicked callers a month or so after returning from China where they showed their product, prototype or product drawings to Chinese OEM (original equipment manufacturing) companies. They were calling us in a panic because they had shown their product, prototype, or product design drawings around China (in some instances they had even left it there) and now everyone there had gone silent. They would typically ask if we thought a Chinese company might be using their information to copy their product. I would then ask them if they had required the Chinese companies to sign any sort of agreement before turning over the information. After a long pause, they would invariably answer, "no," and then usually ask about suing. I would then explain how the copying of a product in this sort of situation was probably a violation of Chinese law, but . . . .
I realized the other day that these calls have almost completely ceased and I think the increasing use of nondisclosure agreements is why. Our more typical call now is from a consultant or manufacturer seeking our help in drafting a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before heading off to China with a prototype/product/drawing for OEM quotes.
Smart.
We love NDAs. They are simple, effective, and telling.
Simple, because they tend not to vary all that much from company to company or from product to product. We like putting in an attorneys' fee provision and a provision regarding injunctive relief. We always do them in both English and Chinese, nearly always for a flat fee.
Effective, because the Chinese courts are getting familiar with them and will generally enforce them.
Telling, because we have found that if a Chinese manufacturer refuses to sign one, this is probably not the Chinese manufacturer with whom you want to do business.
NDAs: Do not leave home without one.
See other posts in: Legal News
Comments
Good advice indeed. We have NDA's with all suppliers and our customers but I've often wondered how much they are worth given the size of our company and our business in China. I've sat with suppliers who we have NDA's with and they've openly shown us or told us information about our competition that I think they'd considered to be company confidential. It bloody horrifies me sometimes and I have to tell suppliers (even customers sometimes) that we're not interested in getting information like that. When I ask if they have NDA's with the company whose info they are are sharing it's always 'No' - something I find hard to believe given our line of business and the companies we compete with.
We've even been given samples of parts from our competition by (Chinese) senior sourcing and purchasing staff at a large multi-national OEM. I was even more shocked at that since I know for a fact that the person who gave us them had signed a confidentiality/non-disclosure contract with his employer. If we were caught with the samples we'd have to chose between admitting where we go them, and then losing the business through revenge from his colleagues or lying and trying to protect him and possibly losing the business as well.
As always in China - complain all you want but lead by example. *>* :-)
NDA's are enforced world wide for the most part. If you agree to it and break it you can be held accountable, regardless of where you live for the most part. There are some countries that will not necessarily enforce an NDA, those are becoming few and far between though.
But hey again you may be correct, and I may not be.
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
Unless of course that there are some restrictions on the levels of spells or Schools of Magic that we don't know about yet. We already know that there are prerequisite skills needed for using certain items, and casting certain spells. What other kinds of restrictions there are... we don't know yet.
From the quotes I've posted below from the Dev. Journals it is clear that you will not be able to use anything and everything, nor will you be able to cast whatever spells you want from Day One.
You will either have to actively manage which skills that your character advances so that you gain the skills necessary to use the items you want to use, or cast the spells you want.
Or, you will just play how you want and just use what you can use when you find it.
Either way, without knowing quite a bit more about how the prerequisites works, or how hard it is to maintain the multiple skill levels in various skills needed to be able to accomplish what you've laid out... we don't really know if that is possible or not.
Couple of quotes with links:
www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2661-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-18-Economy-Prestige-Classes-More
"On item IDs, meaning what you'll find out about an item you've got. You will get information about damage protections, weight, value, durability, critical hit capacity, who crafted it, who enchanted it, minimum skill to use, what enchantment is on it, a basic description and of course the name of the item."
www.warcry.com/articles/view/devjournals/darkfalljournals/2868-Darkfall-Dev-Journal-23-Tasos-Answers-29-Fan-Questions.3
"Spells go up in power based on skill level. Take a fireball for instance; there are a few points in a character's skill progression where the spell gets a power boost until it maxes out. This boost isn't linear. The difference between a 99 skill and a 100 skill fireball for example is really large. You get one really powerful fireball at 100 and then your skill drops to 99 again and you have to get it back up to fire it again.
Another answer to what this question may be asking is that there are skill tree-like prerequisites for casting certain spells. So you need one before you can start casting the other. "
umm actully the nda ha s a bit mroe than just an ip ban it doesnt spicify it tho aventurine isnt messing with leakers wtf the point of having an nda if they dont enforce it?
Well say I live in China and break the NDA, what is a 20-30 man team of sem-pro code crunchers gonna do about it? They're gonna ban my IP and kick me out of Beta, nothing else. Even larger companies do the same, unless you have a link to an NDA breaker leaking Bets screenshots or videos getting prosecuted in a court of law for breaking the contract?
the contract/nda places you under greek law
That would be unenforceable in every country except maybe the EU.
For it to be enforceable outside of the EU they would have had to have every country that they were trying to enforce it with look at it before-hand and then approve it. This would have had to be done at the state level, not just lawyers.
For some reason, I doubt that Aventurine took the time or spent the money to do that with every single country. All just to be able to possibly enfore an NDA for a vidoe game? Heh... yeah, didn't happen.
If this were true then Blizzard would not have been able to sue and win said lawsuit against RMT companies. It was a violation of the user agreement they agreed to.
Aside from that, they would not need to present it to every state etc. All they need is for a decent lawyer specializing in international law. Which is what most companies use for things like this................. but hey, maybe you are right.
Here's a nice little read for ya..........
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2006/12/china_non_disclosure_agreement.html
China Non Disclosure Agreements (NDA)-- Don't Leave Home Without One (Or Many)
Posted by Dan on December 21, 2006 at 01:45 PM
Discussion: Comments (6) : TrackBacks (0) : Linking Blogs : Add to del.icio.us
Years ago, my law firm used to get a fairly steady stream of panicked callers a month or so after returning from China where they showed their product, prototype or product drawings to Chinese OEM (original equipment manufacturing) companies. They were calling us in a panic because they had shown their product, prototype, or product design drawings around China (in some instances they had even left it there) and now everyone there had gone silent. They would typically ask if we thought a Chinese company might be using their information to copy their product. I would then ask them if they had required the Chinese companies to sign any sort of agreement before turning over the information. After a long pause, they would invariably answer, "no," and then usually ask about suing. I would then explain how the copying of a product in this sort of situation was probably a violation of Chinese law, but . . . .
I realized the other day that these calls have almost completely ceased and I think the increasing use of nondisclosure agreements is why. Our more typical call now is from a consultant or manufacturer seeking our help in drafting a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before heading off to China with a prototype/product/drawing for OEM quotes.
Smart.
We love NDAs. They are simple, effective, and telling.
Simple, because they tend not to vary all that much from company to company or from product to product. We like putting in an attorneys' fee provision and a provision regarding injunctive relief. We always do them in both English and Chinese, nearly always for a flat fee.
Effective, because the Chinese courts are getting familiar with them and will generally enforce them.
Telling, because we have found that if a Chinese manufacturer refuses to sign one, this is probably not the Chinese manufacturer with whom you want to do business.
NDAs: Do not leave home without one.
See other posts in: Legal News
Comments
Good advice indeed. We have NDA's with all suppliers and our customers but I've often wondered how much they are worth given the size of our company and our business in China. I've sat with suppliers who we have NDA's with and they've openly shown us or told us information about our competition that I think they'd considered to be company confidential. It bloody horrifies me sometimes and I have to tell suppliers (even customers sometimes) that we're not interested in getting information like that. When I ask if they have NDA's with the company whose info they are are sharing it's always 'No' - something I find hard to believe given our line of business and the companies we compete with.
We've even been given samples of parts from our competition by (Chinese) senior sourcing and purchasing staff at a large multi-national OEM. I was even more shocked at that since I know for a fact that the person who gave us them had signed a confidentiality/non-disclosure contract with his employer. If we were caught with the samples we'd have to chose between admitting where we go them, and then losing the business through revenge from his colleagues or lying and trying to protect him and possibly losing the business as well.
As always in China - complain all you want but lead by example. *>* :-)
NDA's are enforced world wide for the most part. If you agree to it and break it you can be held accountable, regardless of where you live for the most part. There are some countries that will not necessarily enforce an NDA, those are becoming few and far between though.
But hey again you may be correct, and I may not be.
Nice little blurb there about NDA's as to how they relate to equipment manufacturing. I could see how someone breaking an NDA on that would severely impact your business and you could prove a monetary loss. It would make sense to take whatever legal action was necessary against them in that case.
I might have missed it, but where was the part that blurb talked about Video Game Beta NDA's again? Or any legal action taken against someone who had broken a Video Game Beta NDA? Especially if they are from a foreign company?
I'm not all that smart, so it's entirely possible that it was in there, and I just missed it.
Wow nice. You managed to find a blog talking about manufacturing NDA's. Wait, a blog about manufacturing...thought we were talking about game beta NDA's?? Enforcing protection of real property or real intellectual property (as I'm sure you'll say source code or game mechanics can be considered property) is slightly different than enforcing a "don't tell anyone about our game" NDA.
You are correct, just regarding something completely different. Stealing a prototype or a manufacturing process is not the same as disclosing the status of a video game beta or alpha for that matter.
Also, regarding the Blizzard RMT deal, they were able to bring suit against the RMT company because they were profitting on a large scale by selling in-game virtual items; which essentially all belong to Blizzard because they own the intellectual property rights to the game. It was also against the EULA which gave Blizzard clear justification to sue.
So no, the manufacturing NDA doesn't prove much regarding the game beta NDA. They won't come to your house in black SUV's and waterboard you until you give up all the NDA breaking commies in-game.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Yes, kind of logical.
Now tell me how what you just described differs from the Wizard class in EQ or WoW.
There are several schools of magic. A wizard is restricted to learning spells within a few schools of magic out of all the possible schools of magic. These schools are picked for you with a class such as wizard.
With Skills instead of classes, you go with any combination of magic schools you want. Not only that but you can use heavy armor if you wish, 2 handed Axe, Crossbow, etc.
Notice, you didn't answer the question. I understand that in theory you will be able to use a two-handed axe as a Mage type character. What I suspect, which has happened to my knowledge in all the other 'classless' games, is that the vast majority of players will be forced into specialized roles. Either PVE or PVP gameplay will force them to. Yes there will be some rebels, but for the most part you'll find players playing ranged DPS, tanks, and healers. And those rebels will be at a disadvantage when trying to find a group, when playing PVP or PVE.
Well, the biggest difference between the Skill system, and min-max classes, is that say you decided to start off as mainly a robe wearing spell caster, but you didn't like it. In a class based game, you'd have to completely reroll, starting over from scratch.. In the skill based game, just grab a sword and some armor- BAM, you can become a melee oriented character with some practice (skill-ups). You don't have to unlearn your magic, and can even use the skills you learned prior in conjunction with the skills you are trying to level up. SO, there may be some skills that are more usefull then others, but if you level other less usefull skills, you can still switch over and learn the more usefull skills and still be as competative as someone who chose to only level the superior skills. You can constantly change your character, and don't have to reroll a new character to try out different styles of playing.
What happens if I want to quickly switch from a robe wearing fire mage to a plate armor wearing knight? A revolutionary idea would be to make two characters, so that I could play either as situation or whim demanded.
I think this Tasos guy is full of shit.
"we're letting more people in Beta daily"
If you're letting people in daily then why not save yourself the trouble and just let EVERYONE in.
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to hand pick people for testing and have an NDA 1 month before your game is supposed to go public. Especially when he also says there have been no problems.....
There haven't been any problems for the last 7 years... yet here we still are............................................................waiting to play.