Here's my perspective as someone who has played since release and has two level 50 characters. Right now, there is more to do than I can possibly hope to accomplish. Yes, at one time a couple months ago level 50s had basically seen and done it all... at least in the adventuring sphere. But not anymore. I have most of Shores of Darkness ahead of me. There are many quests here I want to complete and I do want to progress through the ranks for the learned abilities and in some cases the gear enhancements. We still have not conquered APW and are currently working on how to get by the Core. I'm still working on my temple quests for the Tet faction gear. I haven't even had time to set foot in Bridge of Destiny yet. I'm working on the Griffon Quest with the 2nd level 50 with guildies and friends. I still need the final upgrade to my Griffon on my primary toon. I am still progressing through the New Targonor House quests and earning my diplomatic titles and purchashing land deeds... I'm half done. Once I complete the house quests, I want to return to completing Writs, earning gems and facets and crafting more diplo gear. We are planning to jump into the Isle of Gaz within a week or two, but haven't stepped foot there yet. My main is crafting level 13 and I want to level up as I enjoy crafting and want to be eligible for the 50/50/50 quests. Every now and then we form up swat teams and hit the PvP arena, a great change of pace and I want to get good enough to build my Infamy. I'm respec'ing the gear on both my main and my alt for certain fights in APW. Specially managing down my Spell Damage focus on my Psi and building around Crit Chance rating on my Bloodmage. Gear is anything but sequential in VG, there are many, many choices to make. Fishing is hopelessly addicting. I really enjoy taking my caravel out to a deep sea area with a few friends and see what we can pull in. Along with learning some techniques so I can catch bigger fish.
I probably play more than I should, and everytime I log in I get the feeling of being overwhelmed with all the things I want to do. And beyond that, there are all the things my guildies, friends and complete strangers want to accomplish with some help. There are also some alts that I really enjoy playing but have no time to do so.
There are too many reasons why people should not play VG to boil it down to one. I could list probably ten or twenty core reasons and maybe a hundred smaller reasons.
VG is a failed MMO and is being kept on life support by SOE who just hopes to squeeze a few more dollars out of the suckers foolish enough to continue ladeling money down the throat of SOE's greed monster.
There are too many reasons why people should not play VG to boil it down to one. I could list probably ten or twenty core reasons and maybe a hundred smaller reasons. VG is a failed MMO and is being kept on life support by SOE who just hopes to squeeze a few more dollars out of the suckers foolish enough to continue ladeling money down the throat of SOE's greed monster.
There is nothing like a SOE hater to make him/herself look foolish.
I aint no fan but you make Vg out to be so bad in today's market,I mean my god man you could have taken PoTBS to piece's but you have chosen VG.
You say you could list 10 or 20 core problems,well in your post you have listed 0,hell you even said you could list 100 smaller problems...ermm ok,seems pretty good but again you havent even said 1.
I could say Deadalus732 has alot of problems...stay away from him,I could list the problems he has but it would go into the hundreds,honest pay attention to me as I say he has problems so I am ofc right.......
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
I must say that I feel quite stupid in this post. I am actually enjoying an doomed, ugly and empty mmo with tons of bugs. Even thou I must say that I ve no problems finding groups in low-mid level quests while my guild mates are creating havok in the end game. And all the trolling about bugs. Ive found one (thats 1 for you) bug that ruined a quest line for me and some friends. We sent an alert to an GM that fixed the quest for us.... Stupid SOE that hires good supports like that.
And what I can tell you about the graphics is that the art work is really nice (my taste is maybe not the best ofc) and that the technical aspect is not top notched but it does create some epic views here and there.
Hope this game will florish becuse it gives us mmo players an alternative to the dull wow clones that are so popular atm. Even thou its far from perfect in any aspect. And I also hope you enjoy your game of choice as much as I enjoy VG, but sadly I do suspect that you dont do that.
There is nothing like a SOE hater to make him/herself look foolish. Okay, sure. SOE has destroyed more than one game that I once loved. I think I have every reason to hate them. So what? Why am I not entitled to do so? How does that make me look foolish? The difference between a regular hater and myself is that I can provide you with interviews, videos, and examples of where SOE has lied, cheated, and been punished by the BBB (That's the Better Business Bureau) for their actions. So if you want to dance on this issue, I'm going to lay you out cold pretty fast. I aint no fan but you make Vg out to be so bad in today's market,I mean my god man you could have taken PoTBS to piece's but you have chosen VG. What difference does it make? I never played PoTBS, so I'm not going to comment on it. VG is almost universally known for its total failure almost right out of the box after endless hype as the premier next generation MMO. Sound familiar? *cough* AoC *cough*.
You say you could list 10 or 20 core problems,well in your post you have listed 0,hell you even said you could list 100 smaller problems...ermm ok,seems pretty good but again you havent even said 1. Note the word "could". I didn't list any because it isn't worth my time. Go do some searching and find the interview from the former Sigil employee. Or the many reviews that came out AFTER Brad McQuaid announced that the released version of Vanguard was essentially beta 6. Do some fucking research, and then come talk to me about how great this game is, particularly after the company who made it went down the tubes. Yeah, that's a success alright. Christ. I could say Deadalus732 has alot of problems...stay away from him,I could list the problems he has but it would go into the hundreds,honest pay attention to me as I say he has problems so I am ofc right...... I'm guessing you're about 10 years old? You need some lessons in reading comprehension, because you completely lack the ability to recognize someone talking about what is theoretically possible versus what has actually happened.
Currently SOE does carry a better business accreditation rating. Current status is not rated meaning their status is being reviewed.
ncsoft isn't rated at all
blizzard is accredited and rated BB
EA is not accredited and rated unsatisfactory
Funcom is not accredited and rated satisfactory.
Turbine is not accredited and fated F.
So it looks like compared to most companies SOE is better with the BBB. Will be interesting to see what their rating is after the review. But the fact that the company is accredited says they participating and deal with customer issues.
I understand that there have been some updates to the game, but honestly, doesn't the majority of subscription based MMOs do the same? And offer paid expansions as well? Look at EQ, EQII, LOTRO, etc. All give out free updates and all also develop paid expansions.
The reason VG isn't doing a paid expansion has nothing at all to do with world design. The reason is they have a TINY dev team and they just don't have the time or resources to get the job done.
Don't get me wrong... I really enjoyed most of my time in VG, but go look at some of the dev Q&A posts. I'd say 2/3rds or more of all the requests made by players are answered with "we don't have the time" or "Our team is too small to get it done" or "We'd like to do it, but just don't have the resources."
Even though SOE saved the game from the chopping block, they're also slowly strangling the life out of the game by ignoring it. SOE simply does not take VG seriously and it shows.
The additions are beyond most games free additions. I was very critical of this game and still am, and have been known to be a complete downer at times. But I am willing to give them credit.
In the last couple of months we have gotten a new FFA PvP Arena, loads of higher end content group/raid (SOD, KDQ, Bridge of Destiny, Garazumet), class race combos updated, Galleons, two good holiday events. Soon to be another high end addition with the Pantheon.
These are not little updates or minor fixes. I have played over a dozen mmo's at this point including those you mention, and I have never seen content of this size ever given for free.
They pretty much took most of my big complaints with the game and knocked them off the list over the last couple months. And again provided for free - this would have been an expansion or at least adventure packs in other games.
I think they are trying to make it right with the people that have played the game this long - which is appreciated.
I really don't see how their technology would jive with an expansion. But I'll take the near equivalent of one via free updates. It is still more content than most people are going to ever play through, including with a couple alts or so - and there is more on the way. Pantheon will be huge.
Oh, I acknowledge that the small dev team is doing an excellent job with the resources they do have, and I don't want to take anything away from their efforts. However, the game additions are not any bigger than a lot of other MMO free content updates. CoH for example introduced the invention system, new archtypes, epic archtypes, etc. for free. Look at everything LOTRO has given out for free in addtion to the paid expansion. Lots of games do it, and do it well. Let's not blow the free content that VG has given up into something it's not.
My main point is that the dev team is very small and SOE doesn't do a good job at supporting the game. How much attention did VG get at FF this year again? Not much, that's for sure.
Anywho, everyone will have their own opinions on this. I think VG is a good game as is but damn, it could be so much better given a bigger team (even one of average size) and more attention/resources.
There is nothing like a SOE hater to make him/herself look foolish. Okay, sure. SOE has destroyed more than one game that I once loved. I think I have every reason to hate them. So what? Why am I not entitled to do so? How does that make me look foolish? The difference between a regular hater and myself is that I can provide you with interviews, videos, and examples of where SOE has lied, cheated, and been punished by the BBB (That's the Better Business Bureau) for their actions. So if you want to dance on this issue, I'm going to lay you out cold pretty fast. I aint no fan but you make Vg out to be so bad in today's market,I mean my god man you could have taken PoTBS to piece's but you have chosen VG. What difference does it make? I never played PoTBS, so I'm not going to comment on it. VG is almost universally known for its total failure almost right out of the box after endless hype as the premier next generation MMO. Sound familiar? *cough* AoC *cough*.
You say you could list 10 or 20 core problems,well in your post you have listed 0,hell you even said you could list 100 smaller problems...ermm ok,seems pretty good but again you havent even said 1. Note the word "could". I didn't list any because it isn't worth my time. Go do some searching and find the interview from the former Sigil employee. Or the many reviews that came out AFTER Brad McQuaid announced that the released version of Vanguard was essentially beta 6. Do some fucking research, and then come talk to me about how great this game is, particularly after the company who made it went down the tubes. Yeah, that's a success alright. Christ. I could say Deadalus732 has alot of problems...stay away from him,I could list the problems he has but it would go into the hundreds,honest pay attention to me as I say he has problems so I am ofc right...... I'm guessing you're about 10 years old? You need some lessons in reading comprehension, because you completely lack the ability to recognize someone talking about what is theoretically possible versus what has actually happened.
It isn't worth your time to do research, but it is worth your time to reply to his post? Looks like you put a lot of effort into netrage, maybe put your super powers to better use?
I would like to see where the BBB punished SoE and what for. No sarcasm, it would be interesting. Even though that agency doesn't really have any power.
Originally posted by Hazmal It isn't worth your time to do research, but it is worth your time to reply to his post? Looks like you put a lot of effort into netrage, maybe put your super powers to better use? I would like to see where the BBB punished SoE and what for. No sarcasm, it would be interesting. Even though that agency doesn't really have any power.
First of all, I don't need to do any research because I was around for all of SOE's screw ups since day one in Star Wars Galaxies. I know exactly where to find forum transcripts, contradictory statements made by developers, youtube videos of the same thing, and statements made by a former employee of Sigil regarding Vanguard. It's all out there on the internet, and it's very easily available to someone with five minutes and Google. I refuse to look up and post this information precisely BECAUSE it's so widely available. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't seen it, it's either because you haven't looked for it, or are unwilling to look for it.
The BBB does have some real power over its members, of which SOE is one. And thus, if SOE wants to continue its membership within the BBB, it must abide by its standards. When SOE released an expansion for SWG just before they totally changed the game with the NGE (New Game Enhancements) it made many of the advertised features of this expansion non-existent just a few days after release. As a result, people complained to the BBB, and SOE , probably for the first time in the history of MMO games, gave refunds to people who purchased the expansion.
As I said, all of this information is widely available and easily verifiable.
My reply to his post, and indeed ANY post that speaks well of VG, is aimed at warning people away from a game that could only really be defined as a dead end, and a company who treats their subscribers terribly. Did you know they just started a program called "Station Cash" where people in EQ2 can now buy in-game items with real money? And this came after the game's developers specifically promised nothing of this sort would happen. Additionally, if you play an SOE game, you agree to their EULA which says that SOE is allowed to take all your personal information and distribute it to third parties. That alone would keep me away from a SOE game.
Take a look at the EQ2 forums, specifically the feedback on this feature. It's almost universally despised.
There is nothing like a SOE hater to make him/herself look foolish. Okay, sure. SOE has destroyed more than one game that I once loved. I think I have every reason to hate them. So what? Why am I not entitled to do so? How does that make me look foolish? The difference between a regular hater and myself is that I can provide you with interviews, videos, and examples of where SOE has lied, cheated, and been punished by the BBB (That's the Better Business Bureau) for their actions. So if you want to dance on this issue, I'm going to lay you out cold pretty fast. I aint no fan but you make Vg out to be so bad in today's market,I mean my god man you could have taken PoTBS to piece's but you have chosen VG. What difference does it make? I never played PoTBS, so I'm not going to comment on it. VG is almost universally known for its total failure almost right out of the box after endless hype as the premier next generation MMO. Sound familiar? *cough* AoC *cough*.
You say you could list 10 or 20 core problems,well in your post you have listed 0,hell you even said you could list 100 smaller problems...ermm ok,seems pretty good but again you havent even said 1. Note the word "could". I didn't list any because it isn't worth my time. Go do some searching and find the interview from the former Sigil employee. Or the many reviews that came out AFTER Brad McQuaid announced that the released version of Vanguard was essentially beta 6. Do some fucking research, and then come talk to me about how great this game is, particularly after the company who made it went down the tubes. Yeah, that's a success alright. Christ. I could say Deadalus732 has alot of problems...stay away from him,I could list the problems he has but it would go into the hundreds,honest pay attention to me as I say he has problems so I am ofc right...... I'm guessing you're about 10 years old? You need some lessons in reading comprehension, because you completely lack the ability to recognize someone talking about what is theoretically possible versus what has actually happened.
Well that hit a nerve....
Anyway I never once said this game was great but it is alot better than alot of the releases made in the last 4 years.
You seem to be alot more upset with SOE than with Vanguard,I guess I can understand that but if you want to post a negative response maybe give some substance to it rather than "I can give lots of reasons" like I said before that is a non-starter.
Also I see you have went to the "how old are you and look I can use swear words alot in my posts"
Well I am 35 and I know what I enjoy,atm even with the faults vanguard is still one the better mmo's out there,the game isnt anywhere near perfect but it is enjoyable if player's want to put the effort in and ofc have a good system.
Yes I could sit here and cry a river about some of the bad points but if it is ok with you I will side step that and just enjoy myself.
Vanguard isnt for everyone ....hell it isnt for most player's but if you have a good system and dont mind taking your time and enjoying the game and not rush too end level then yes,vanguard could be for you*
*disclaimer,SOE haters it wont be for you.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
Well that hit a nerve.... Probably because I'm one of the few people who has been around long enough to have been burned by SOE's fire far too often. Anyway I never once said this game was great but it is alot better than alot of the releases made in the last 4 years. Well, that's going to be a personal opinion. I don't think it's true, and had you been around at Vanguard's launch (assuming you weren't) you might not be playing it today. VG, like MANY MMOs, had a lot of potential, but none of that potential will be realized because games on SOE's station access program (other than Everquest) are basically just on life support to get a few more bucks from the few remaining subscription numbers. You seem to be alot more upset with SOE than with Vanguard,I guess I can understand that but if you want to post a negative response maybe give some substance to it rather than "I can give lots of reasons" like I said before that is a non-starter. Actually, it's both. Remember that SOE co-published the game with Sigil, but didn't really do anything in terms of development. Go search for the interview conducted with the ex-Sigil employee who talks about how the game was developed, or rather how it was undeveloped all the way through the project. For starters, this person sums it all up pretty well: http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435 Also I see you have went to the "how old are you and look I can use swear words alot in my posts" If 1 use is a lot, I suppose just about anyone could... Well I am 35 and I know what I enjoy,atm even with the faults vanguard is still one the better mmo's out there,the game isnt anywhere near perfect but it is enjoyable if player's want to put the effort in and ofc have a good system. Vanguard actually has reached the point where it is playable now. That's not its problem, though if you enjoy playing it, there's really nothing stopping you from doing so. The trouble with having a good system is that even a top tier system is going to have issues with VG because the client is so poorly optimized. But that's an entirely different issue. Yes I could sit here and cry a river about some of the bad points but if it is ok with you I will side step that and just enjoy myself. Go ahead. Log in. No one is stopping you. Vanguard isnt for everyone ....hell it isnt for most player's but if you have a good system and dont mind taking your time and enjoying the game and not rush too end level then yes,vanguard could be for you* This is something I unfortunately here from a lot of people: "This game is good, but don't play it too much". Something about that just doesn't sit well with me. *disclaimer,SOE haters it wont be for you.
Vanguard isnt for everyone ....hell it isnt for most player's but if you have a good system and dont mind taking your time and enjoying the game and not rush too end level then yes,vanguard could be for you*
This is something I unfortunately here from a lot of people: "This game is good, but don't play it too much". Something about that just doesn't sit well with me.
Meh, rushing to end game. It is a difference with 10days /played or 100days /played. (Sorry exeggerating to make the point.) Not the same as not rushing to end level would mean that you never actually play the game.
There is alot of things to do, either you outlevel it or you turn off XP, make an alt or go do something else then just "rushing to end level"
Meh, rushing to end game. It is a difference with 10days /played or 100days /played. (Sorry exeggerating to make the point.) Not the same as not rushing to end level would mean that you never actually play the game. There is alot of things to do, either you outlevel it or you turn off XP, make an alt or go do something else then just "rushing to end level"
Most people who play MMOs don't rush to end game. And even if they do, so what? An MMO should be just as fun at level 1 as it is at max level. Most WoW players will tell you that WoW doesn't actually start UNTIL max level.
People have forgotten what an MMO was supposed to be, and now we have games that would better be described as pay to play RPGs. So those of us who remember the first generation of MMOs are often accused of "rushing" through the new ones because they are so limited in their scope.
I always had something to do in Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. And those were the days when you needed a whole new account to create an "alt", if you could call it such.
MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
Originally posted by Daedalus732 And those were the days when you needed a whole new account to create an "alt", if you could call it such. MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
I just want to sy that I agree to that. Especially the underlined one. For various reason.
But that maybe is not something feasible today. Eve does it, in a way, but htat is also an older game.
MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
An MMO with no alts will be a niche game. Period. People like being able to explore a variety of classes and builds in a game on a single account. Maybe they settle on one and play it exclusively, maybe they have two of three they love to play for different reasons, but the fact is, very, very few players these days have only a single character in a game.
It's possible to have a server where a person can only create one character-- EQ1 did that when the RP server first went live -- but for the mainstream audience that makes up the vast majority of players in the MMO market, forcing that on them as a fundamental game mechanic wouldn't work. They'd just go to a game where they can play as many characters as they want on a single server.
Meh, rushing to end game. It is a difference with 10days /played or 100days /played. (Sorry exeggerating to make the point.) Not the same as not rushing to end level would mean that you never actually play the game. There is alot of things to do, either you outlevel it or you turn off XP, make an alt or go do something else then just "rushing to end level"
Most people who play MMOs don't rush to end game. And even if they do, so what? An MMO should be just as fun at level 1 as it is at max level. Most WoW players will tell you that WoW doesn't actually start UNTIL max level.
People have forgotten what an MMO was supposed to be, and now we have games that would better be described as pay to play RPGs. So those of us who remember the first generation of MMOs are often accused of "rushing" through the new ones because they are so limited in their scope.
I always had something to do in Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. And those were the days when you needed a whole new account to create an "alt", if you could call it such.
MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
No alts was a BS move the SWG developers made to keep down the cost of database space. SWG in beta had huge DB issues and they elimintate alts to try to prevent the db from being too large.
A game without alts today would be completely dead and really I don't think not having alts does anything to help the community.
The best game for community was the original EQ because the game was so brutal you had to get help and you had to socialize. Enforced grouping and harsh death made players band together. That created the best community and some of the tightest bonds. But alas this is a chapter in history now because I doubt a game like EQ would ever fly today.
SoE has made some blunders with SWG for sure. I buought the expansion which was disappointing for sure. I canceled two accounts that day. But I've seen good support and good directions in VG development since SoE took over. I'd suggest that SoE is a large company and that they are motivated to make money which means NOT trying to piss customers off. However any change that is significant is gonna piss some people off.
Doing station cash thing is something that was gonna piss people off no matter how they did it. If they said that in 2 months they would do it you would have people leaving and you would have all sorts of rumors about it. Dropping it in we don't have to read all the controversy, fear uncertanty and doubt about it. It is there everyone knows what it is. People can say they don't like it but you can't argue about what it is. SoE decided they want to put this in the game to increase revenue. They decided they could do it without causing a lot of customers to quit and that those that left would be less then the increased revenue. Thats their business.
VG is a good game today and Silias and his team are doing a lot of good work to grow the game. The past couple years have been focused on fixing the bugs and issues. Silias has said that the coming year will be more focused on the "fun" stuff, adding content and features. I think the coming year for VG is gonna be an exciting year.
An MMO with no alts will be a niche game. Period. People like being able to explore a variety of classes and builds in a game on a single account.
SWG was set up to allow people to completely customize their professions, so you could explore any combination or variety of classes without having to remake your charachter. I think it worked really well.
You don't care about your characters in a game where their are alts aplenty, nor can you really put community sanctions on someone for being an asshat when they can just go and make another alt.
An MMO with no alts might be a niche game, but then again, it might take off fast. Maybe people need to be forced to focus their time on to ONE character, and make the character truly unique.
That's what is missing from the newer MMOs. There's no uniqueness. Everyone looks like and plays like everyone else. People choose rediculous names for themselves, and the communities are generally trash and populated by kids who just want to fool around.
Yeah, I'll take a niche game if it keeps those people out.
VG is a good game today and Silias and his team are doing a lot of good work to grow the game. The past couple years have been focused on fixing the bugs and issues. Silias has said that the coming year will be more focused on the "fun" stuff, adding content and features. I think the coming year for VG is gonna be an exciting year.
VG is a stable game today, but if far from "good". The same criticisms levied in this article are still true today:
Why would anyone play a game that took years just to hammer out bugs and issues? And frankly, there still are TONS of them. My wife and I subbed a couple of months ago to see what had become of the game, and we still found plenty of bugs and memory leaks. It's playable, but far from fixed.
I wouldn't trust SOE developers on anything, and you can't deny that Vanguard is not going to recover. It's the dictionary definition of failure for an MMO. Every time someone sees an MMO start to tank, the first question is always: "Is this another Vangaurd"?
You can't get much lower than that, when your game is used as a benchmark for failure.
So here are the links. It took me actually 15 minutes to get them (the FoH one was a bit tricky).
If there are others out there, let me know.
Why would anyone play a game that took years just to hammer out bugs and issues?
Because the game is good and Im paying for the game now and not years ago.
And frankly, there still are TONS of them.
There are bugs. There arent TONS of them. Whats your definition of TONS?
It's playable, but far from fixed.
Its playable , there are still bugs.
I wouldn't trust SOE developers on anything, and you can't deny that Vanguard is not going to recover.
I dont trust any developer on anything and VG is and will be a niche game. There is no mmorpg out which ever recovered from a bad launch with the only exception of Eve Online.
It's the dictionary definition of failure for an MMO. Every time someone sees an MMO start to tank, the first question is always: "Is this another Vangaurd"?
Wasnt there a guy which claimed the same about Anarchy Online? Hellgate, Auto Assault and soon Tabula Rasa are/will be gone. VG is still there after 2 years.
Btw a lot of player today never heared anything from VG or SWG.
You can't get much lower than that, when your game is used as a benchmark for failure.
I dont care about getting "lower". Were talking here about some virtual game I pay a monthly subscription for. Seems you take this far too serious. "I think I have every reason to hate them." Whatever.
Maybe Jumpgate Evolution will be the space VG? BOO!
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true.
Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start.
The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago. Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged.
Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true
It does matter. Else Ford Model T would be still the best car in the world.
Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start.
I posted the link to the employee interview. If there is another one, give me the source please.
Well they payed for the launch. Sigil isnt anymore, only a name left when you start VG.
The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago.
I disagree. The game IS good, thats my opinion and thats why I pay for it. The game could be a LOT better though. And VG today isnt so much different to VG at launch.
That doesnt mean that I will stick forever to VG, but atm Im good. I see a point in the future that I will stop my sub, but that point isnt reached so far.
Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged.
The plastic looks shows inside rooms, thats hardly everything.
The arrangement of mobs is bizarre? I dont understand that. I prefer games where I dont run every meter into a mob. Yeah, sometimes I have to walk around a bit.
Diplomacy is a very simple version of magic the gathering. Use google to find info about that. Btw EA is just putting out such a cardgame as major release: http://www.battleforge.com. The basics are the same.
I dont craft so I cant comment on that, but there seem to be a lot of crafters in VG.
Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
Lets hope that the not-so-whiny guys provide enough subs.
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true. Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start. The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago. Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged. Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
Well I'd say any credability you had went out with this post. Thanks for the input.
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true. Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start. The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago. Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged. Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
Well I'd say any credability you had went out with this post. Thanks for the input.
No kidding. The difference between VG then and now is night and day. I have no clue why anyone would say a 2007 review has any merit whatsoever.
Here was something someone posted in that thread which I think states things pretty well.
I think the new additions added to Vanguard combined from this past year could have been delivered as a mini x-pansion. But you guys just gave it to us. I've mentioned before that sometimes people only like/enjoy to focus/highlight/dwell on negative and bypass/forget/skip positive. This past 2008 you delivered alot of positive optimization improvements & new content. Isle of Dawn alone was a big chunk of positive. Flying mount griffon and wyvrn quest, new faction based system, new racial mounts, new overland targets, Isle of Dawn (newbie island), galleons, fishing, m.e.s.t quests, character customization returned, new character models, additional classes to some races, new player helmets, armor styles revamped, armor enchantments, new faction based armor, new pvp arena, harvest day, grim harvest, player costumes, shores of darkness, karax,varking,guar,si'imr, the telon global exchange, you also increased our market cap & added an expiration, riftways were revamped, you gave us 4 additional character slots, new diplomacy clothing/cards, new diplomacy masks. And this doesnt even include all of the bug fixes/optimizations that improved vanguards performance. Vanguard is definately a playable game now. thanks for taking the time to answer all of those questions, looking forward to vanguard 2009! (and a Black Peagusus)
Oh ya V was a great game right out of launch ,i loved it and enjoyed playing it and had zero problems whatsoever.I play on Vista,so if anyone is going to have problems i would be the guy.It was very apparent from the outset,that many DID NOT have the systems to run the game as high as they were trying to and chose to blame Sigil lmao.Too many hyper ventilated stories about V are pretty much all false.
V pushed the graphical part of gaming higher than any other game had previous,so it was sort of a shock to many.IDK maybe some gamers are a lot smarter?take FFXI for example,the Besieged battles are just god awful lag,yet you don't hear the constant bicker or whining or complaining like you do in other games.The reason is simple,they understand that tons of action on a screen=lag for sure.I mean FFXI uses all low resolution graphics and can lag just horrible,so imagine a game that uses high polys and a MUCH longer view distance and of course shaders in V cause a lot of extra graphic lag.
As far as complaining about content,i find that hilarious because V has a ton of content,there is enough there to keep you busy for years,that is if you choose to do it all,if not,then your own fault.There is also something called "take a break"if you try to game 12 hours a day,then yes you might run out of content sooner than later.Games are meant to be past times ,they are not meant to be a replacement for REAL LIFE,so like i said ..take a break.
The part about probable updates is again hilarious,because you know what i actually heard IN Everquest al lthe time ?I heard people mumbling SOE does to MANY updates/expansions lmao,now i get one guy here saying SOE will not deliver,gee i wonder who i would believe?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Lmao.
Tecmo Bowl.
There are too many reasons why people should not play VG to boil it down to one. I could list probably ten or twenty core reasons and maybe a hundred smaller reasons.
VG is a failed MMO and is being kept on life support by SOE who just hopes to squeeze a few more dollars out of the suckers foolish enough to continue ladeling money down the throat of SOE's greed monster.
There is nothing like a SOE hater to make him/herself look foolish.
I aint no fan but you make Vg out to be so bad in today's market,I mean my god man you could have taken PoTBS to piece's but you have chosen VG.
You say you could list 10 or 20 core problems,well in your post you have listed 0,hell you even said you could list 100 smaller problems...ermm ok,seems pretty good but again you havent even said 1.
I could say Deadalus732 has alot of problems...stay away from him,I could list the problems he has but it would go into the hundreds,honest pay attention to me as I say he has problems so I am ofc right.......
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
I must say that I feel quite stupid in this post. I am actually enjoying an doomed, ugly and empty mmo with tons of bugs. Even thou I must say that I ve no problems finding groups in low-mid level quests while my guild mates are creating havok in the end game. And all the trolling about bugs. Ive found one (thats 1 for you) bug that ruined a quest line for me and some friends. We sent an alert to an GM that fixed the quest for us.... Stupid SOE that hires good supports like that.
And what I can tell you about the graphics is that the art work is really nice (my taste is maybe not the best ofc) and that the technical aspect is not top notched but it does create some epic views here and there.
Hope this game will florish becuse it gives us mmo players an alternative to the dull wow clones that are so popular atm. Even thou its far from perfect in any aspect. And I also hope you enjoy your game of choice as much as I enjoy VG, but sadly I do suspect that you dont do that.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
Currently SOE does carry a better business accreditation rating. Current status is not rated meaning their status is being reviewed.
ncsoft isn't rated at all
blizzard is accredited and rated BB
EA is not accredited and rated unsatisfactory
Funcom is not accredited and rated satisfactory.
Turbine is not accredited and fated F.
So it looks like compared to most companies SOE is better with the BBB. Will be interesting to see what their rating is after the review. But the fact that the company is accredited says they participating and deal with customer issues.
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Ethion
The additions are beyond most games free additions. I was very critical of this game and still am, and have been known to be a complete downer at times. But I am willing to give them credit.
In the last couple of months we have gotten a new FFA PvP Arena, loads of higher end content group/raid (SOD, KDQ, Bridge of Destiny, Garazumet), class race combos updated, Galleons, two good holiday events. Soon to be another high end addition with the Pantheon.
These are not little updates or minor fixes. I have played over a dozen mmo's at this point including those you mention, and I have never seen content of this size ever given for free.
They pretty much took most of my big complaints with the game and knocked them off the list over the last couple months. And again provided for free - this would have been an expansion or at least adventure packs in other games.
I think they are trying to make it right with the people that have played the game this long - which is appreciated.
I really don't see how their technology would jive with an expansion. But I'll take the near equivalent of one via free updates. It is still more content than most people are going to ever play through, including with a couple alts or so - and there is more on the way. Pantheon will be huge.
Oh, I acknowledge that the small dev team is doing an excellent job with the resources they do have, and I don't want to take anything away from their efforts. However, the game additions are not any bigger than a lot of other MMO free content updates. CoH for example introduced the invention system, new archtypes, epic archtypes, etc. for free. Look at everything LOTRO has given out for free in addtion to the paid expansion. Lots of games do it, and do it well. Let's not blow the free content that VG has given up into something it's not.
My main point is that the dev team is very small and SOE doesn't do a good job at supporting the game. How much attention did VG get at FF this year again? Not much, that's for sure.
Anywho, everyone will have their own opinions on this. I think VG is a good game as is but damn, it could be so much better given a bigger team (even one of average size) and more attention/resources.
It isn't worth your time to do research, but it is worth your time to reply to his post? Looks like you put a lot of effort into netrage, maybe put your super powers to better use?
I would like to see where the BBB punished SoE and what for. No sarcasm, it would be interesting. Even though that agency doesn't really have any power.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
First of all, I don't need to do any research because I was around for all of SOE's screw ups since day one in Star Wars Galaxies. I know exactly where to find forum transcripts, contradictory statements made by developers, youtube videos of the same thing, and statements made by a former employee of Sigil regarding Vanguard. It's all out there on the internet, and it's very easily available to someone with five minutes and Google. I refuse to look up and post this information precisely BECAUSE it's so widely available. As far as I'm concerned, if you haven't seen it, it's either because you haven't looked for it, or are unwilling to look for it.
The BBB does have some real power over its members, of which SOE is one. And thus, if SOE wants to continue its membership within the BBB, it must abide by its standards. When SOE released an expansion for SWG just before they totally changed the game with the NGE (New Game Enhancements) it made many of the advertised features of this expansion non-existent just a few days after release. As a result, people complained to the BBB, and SOE , probably for the first time in the history of MMO games, gave refunds to people who purchased the expansion.
As I said, all of this information is widely available and easily verifiable.
My reply to his post, and indeed ANY post that speaks well of VG, is aimed at warning people away from a game that could only really be defined as a dead end, and a company who treats their subscribers terribly. Did you know they just started a program called "Station Cash" where people in EQ2 can now buy in-game items with real money? And this came after the game's developers specifically promised nothing of this sort would happen. Additionally, if you play an SOE game, you agree to their EULA which says that SOE is allowed to take all your personal information and distribute it to third parties. That alone would keep me away from a SOE game.
Take a look at the EQ2 forums, specifically the feedback on this feature. It's almost universally despised.
Well that hit a nerve....
Anyway I never once said this game was great but it is alot better than alot of the releases made in the last 4 years.
You seem to be alot more upset with SOE than with Vanguard,I guess I can understand that but if you want to post a negative response maybe give some substance to it rather than "I can give lots of reasons" like I said before that is a non-starter.
Also I see you have went to the "how old are you and look I can use swear words alot in my posts"
Well I am 35 and I know what I enjoy,atm even with the faults vanguard is still one the better mmo's out there,the game isnt anywhere near perfect but it is enjoyable if player's want to put the effort in and ofc have a good system.
Yes I could sit here and cry a river about some of the bad points but if it is ok with you I will side step that and just enjoy myself.
Vanguard isnt for everyone ....hell it isnt for most player's but if you have a good system and dont mind taking your time and enjoying the game and not rush too end level then yes,vanguard could be for you*
*disclaimer,SOE haters it wont be for you.
If someone had came up to me in 1980 when I was on my Atari 2600 and said we will be playing games with thousands of people at the same time.I guess my response would have been,"but I only have 2 joysticks"
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/235780/page/8
This is something I unfortunately here from a lot of people: "This game is good, but don't play it too much". Something about that just doesn't sit well with me.
Meh, rushing to end game. It is a difference with 10days /played or 100days /played. (Sorry exeggerating to make the point.) Not the same as not rushing to end level would mean that you never actually play the game.
There is alot of things to do, either you outlevel it or you turn off XP, make an alt or go do something else then just "rushing to end level"
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Most people who play MMOs don't rush to end game. And even if they do, so what? An MMO should be just as fun at level 1 as it is at max level. Most WoW players will tell you that WoW doesn't actually start UNTIL max level.
People have forgotten what an MMO was supposed to be, and now we have games that would better be described as pay to play RPGs. So those of us who remember the first generation of MMOs are often accused of "rushing" through the new ones because they are so limited in their scope.
I always had something to do in Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. And those were the days when you needed a whole new account to create an "alt", if you could call it such.
MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
I just want to sy that I agree to that. Especially the underlined one. For various reason.
But that maybe is not something feasible today. Eve does it, in a way, but htat is also an older game.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
An MMO with no alts will be a niche game. Period. People like being able to explore a variety of classes and builds in a game on a single account. Maybe they settle on one and play it exclusively, maybe they have two of three they love to play for different reasons, but the fact is, very, very few players these days have only a single character in a game.
It's possible to have a server where a person can only create one character-- EQ1 did that when the RP server first went live -- but for the mainstream audience that makes up the vast majority of players in the MMO market, forcing that on them as a fundamental game mechanic wouldn't work. They'd just go to a game where they can play as many characters as they want on a single server.
Most people who play MMOs don't rush to end game. And even if they do, so what? An MMO should be just as fun at level 1 as it is at max level. Most WoW players will tell you that WoW doesn't actually start UNTIL max level.
People have forgotten what an MMO was supposed to be, and now we have games that would better be described as pay to play RPGs. So those of us who remember the first generation of MMOs are often accused of "rushing" through the new ones because they are so limited in their scope.
I always had something to do in Star Wars Galaxies before the NGE. And those were the days when you needed a whole new account to create an "alt", if you could call it such.
MMOs need to go back to being levelless with an emphasis on community building and a feeling that your character is an actual part of that community, which means, no more alts.
No alts was a BS move the SWG developers made to keep down the cost of database space. SWG in beta had huge DB issues and they elimintate alts to try to prevent the db from being too large.
A game without alts today would be completely dead and really I don't think not having alts does anything to help the community.
The best game for community was the original EQ because the game was so brutal you had to get help and you had to socialize. Enforced grouping and harsh death made players band together. That created the best community and some of the tightest bonds. But alas this is a chapter in history now because I doubt a game like EQ would ever fly today.
SoE has made some blunders with SWG for sure. I buought the expansion which was disappointing for sure. I canceled two accounts that day. But I've seen good support and good directions in VG development since SoE took over. I'd suggest that SoE is a large company and that they are motivated to make money which means NOT trying to piss customers off. However any change that is significant is gonna piss some people off.
Doing station cash thing is something that was gonna piss people off no matter how they did it. If they said that in 2 months they would do it you would have people leaving and you would have all sorts of rumors about it. Dropping it in we don't have to read all the controversy, fear uncertanty and doubt about it. It is there everyone knows what it is. People can say they don't like it but you can't argue about what it is. SoE decided they want to put this in the game to increase revenue. They decided they could do it without causing a lot of customers to quit and that those that left would be less then the increased revenue. Thats their business.
VG is a good game today and Silias and his team are doing a lot of good work to grow the game. The past couple years have been focused on fixing the bugs and issues. Silias has said that the coming year will be more focused on the "fun" stuff, adding content and features. I think the coming year for VG is gonna be an exciting year.
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Ethion
SWG was set up to allow people to completely customize their professions, so you could explore any combination or variety of classes without having to remake your charachter. I think it worked really well.
You don't care about your characters in a game where their are alts aplenty, nor can you really put community sanctions on someone for being an asshat when they can just go and make another alt.
An MMO with no alts might be a niche game, but then again, it might take off fast. Maybe people need to be forced to focus their time on to ONE character, and make the character truly unique.
That's what is missing from the newer MMOs. There's no uniqueness. Everyone looks like and plays like everyone else. People choose rediculous names for themselves, and the communities are generally trash and populated by kids who just want to fool around.
Yeah, I'll take a niche game if it keeps those people out.
VG is a stable game today, but if far from "good". The same criticisms levied in this article are still true today:
http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435
Why would anyone play a game that took years just to hammer out bugs and issues? And frankly, there still are TONS of them. My wife and I subbed a couple of months ago to see what had become of the game, and we still found plenty of bugs and memory leaks. It's playable, but far from fixed.
I wouldn't trust SOE developers on anything, and you can't deny that Vanguard is not going to recover. It's the dictionary definition of failure for an MMO. Every time someone sees an MMO start to tank, the first question is always: "Is this another Vangaurd"?
You can't get much lower than that, when your game is used as a benchmark for failure.
I clicked on the provided link and I saw that:
Vanguard - The Anti-Review
Sean "Elysium" Sands - Thu, 02/22/2007 - 3:38pm
Its the year 2008/2009.
The truth about VG:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanguard_Saga_of_Heroes
Especially good read is development history and SoE involvement.
The famous interview:
http://www.f13.net/index.php?itemid=561
Scroll down halfway to see how much SoE was involved in VG development.
And this is probably new to a lot of you:
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/retard-rickshaw/31593-vg-producers-letter-49.html
We now know that Brad McQuaid was a junkie!
So here are the links. It took me actually 15 minutes to get them (the FoH one was a bit tricky).
If there are others out there, let me know.
Why would anyone play a game that took years just to hammer out bugs and issues?
Because the game is good and Im paying for the game now and not years ago.
And frankly, there still are TONS of them.
There are bugs. There arent TONS of them. Whats your definition of TONS?
It's playable, but far from fixed.
Its playable , there are still bugs.
I wouldn't trust SOE developers on anything, and you can't deny that Vanguard is not going to recover.
I dont trust any developer on anything and VG is and will be a niche game. There is no mmorpg out which ever recovered from a bad launch with the only exception of Eve Online.
It's the dictionary definition of failure for an MMO. Every time someone sees an MMO start to tank, the first question is always: "Is this another Vangaurd"?
Wasnt there a guy which claimed the same about Anarchy Online? Hellgate, Auto Assault and soon Tabula Rasa are/will be gone. VG is still there after 2 years.
Btw a lot of player today never heared anything from VG or SWG.
You can't get much lower than that, when your game is used as a benchmark for failure.
I dont care about getting "lower". Were talking here about some virtual game I pay a monthly subscription for. Seems you take this far too serious. "I think I have every reason to hate them." Whatever.
Maybe Jumpgate Evolution will be the space VG? BOO!
Happy new year btw!
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true.
Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start.
The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago. Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged.
Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
It doesn't matter that the review I posted came from 2007. It's still true
It does matter. Else Ford Model T would be still the best car in the world.
Maybe you missed the ex-Sigil employee interview? Sorry, but any game with that kind of development behind it was doomed from the start.
I posted the link to the employee interview. If there is another one, give me the source please.
Well they payed for the launch. Sigil isnt anymore, only a name left when you start VG.
The game isn't good now, just as it wasn't good years ago.
I disagree. The game IS good, thats my opinion and thats why I pay for it. The game could be a LOT better though. And VG today isnt so much different to VG at launch.
That doesnt mean that I will stick forever to VG, but atm Im good. I see a point in the future that I will stop my sub, but that point isnt reached so far.
Everything looks like shiny plastic, the arrangement of mobs is bizzarre, the diplomacy card game is a rediculous joke, and the crafting is still bugged.
The plastic looks shows inside rooms, thats hardly everything.
The arrangement of mobs is bizarre? I dont understand that. I prefer games where I dont run every meter into a mob. Yeah, sometimes I have to walk around a bit.
Diplomacy is a very simple version of magic the gathering. Use google to find info about that. Btw EA is just putting out such a cardgame as major release: http://www.battleforge.com. The basics are the same.
I dont craft so I cant comment on that, but there seem to be a lot of crafters in VG.
Having loved the original Jumpgate, I will probably love Jumpgate Evolution, provided they don't cave in to the whiny little children who can't stand losing their precious ship upon their deaths.
Lets hope that the not-so-whiny guys provide enough subs.
Well I'd say any credability you had went out with this post. Thanks for the input.
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Ethion
Well I'd say any credability you had went out with this post. Thanks for the input.
No kidding. The difference between VG then and now is night and day. I have no clue why anyone would say a 2007 review has any merit whatsoever.
Oh ya V was a great game right out of launch ,i loved it and enjoyed playing it and had zero problems whatsoever.I play on Vista,so if anyone is going to have problems i would be the guy.It was very apparent from the outset,that many DID NOT have the systems to run the game as high as they were trying to and chose to blame Sigil lmao.Too many hyper ventilated stories about V are pretty much all false.
V pushed the graphical part of gaming higher than any other game had previous,so it was sort of a shock to many.IDK maybe some gamers are a lot smarter?take FFXI for example,the Besieged battles are just god awful lag,yet you don't hear the constant bicker or whining or complaining like you do in other games.The reason is simple,they understand that tons of action on a screen=lag for sure.I mean FFXI uses all low resolution graphics and can lag just horrible,so imagine a game that uses high polys and a MUCH longer view distance and of course shaders in V cause a lot of extra graphic lag.
As far as complaining about content,i find that hilarious because V has a ton of content,there is enough there to keep you busy for years,that is if you choose to do it all,if not,then your own fault.There is also something called "take a break"if you try to game 12 hours a day,then yes you might run out of content sooner than later.Games are meant to be past times ,they are not meant to be a replacement for REAL LIFE,so like i said ..take a break.
The part about probable updates is again hilarious,because you know what i actually heard IN Everquest al lthe time ?I heard people mumbling SOE does to MANY updates/expansions lmao,now i get one guy here saying SOE will not deliver,gee i wonder who i would believe?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.