ummmm you see the thing is... well most of the info that is out seems make Aventurine/Tasos to be pvp ganker themselves... I guess one might say that DF is a pvp mmo made by gankers for gankers in mind... just curious but have you read Tasos past interviews... it's made quite clear... also seems DF is especially designed for pvp guild dominance... so DF should be epic pvp w/ massive battles in a grand scale... now it just needs to release and subscribers to fill the world w/ ganking playes, both solo artists and guildeez alike.
Your theory has merit, but it is still just a theory. The real issue is, even if this game does encourage or does not discourage griefers, how hard is to avoid griefers? Lets say Im ona quest, I get jumped by 5 griefers and they kill me and loot me. Since (at least thats the impression Ive got) the items im wearing are easily replacable, I dont worry about that. Now, what I worry about is how easy for me to move out of the are and continue doing my quest. Is it easy? Or am I stuck waiting for douchebags to leave the area so I can continue with my adventures?
I think you raise a really good point about griefers. I think the particular point that you raise shows how this game will be much more group/clan centric than tailored for solo play. If a group ganks you and you need to finish a quest, your best course of action would probably be to get your friends and/or clan and go do some headhunting. Trying to take the griefers on by yourself would be meaningless.
I like to socialize more than go solo, so this probably won't bother me too much. Those who like to solo and 'lose' themselves in the game might find the griefers more difficult to deal with. I think the main people soloing will probably be criminals sneaking up on people.
Who knows really lol. I guess we will figure it out after it realeases.
--------------------------------- Mean People Suck
But there will also be anti-pk guilds who do nothing but chase down and kill said gankers. I imagine there will be resource areas (Think Cove) where anti-pk guilds patrol so people can harvest. And corpse looting ... if getting gear is as easy as it was in pre-ren UO, then it's not a problem at all ... especially if you take a little time to work on a blacksmith toon.
You guys have all the theme parks (complete with handholding, and teddy bears) you could ever want ... give us our sandbox gankfest!
heheh just like the Pre trammel UO whine. If you dont want full corpse looting good thing there are 7 billion games out there taht are all alike with no full corpse looting. DF will succeed becuase it takes the %$^%$^%$ training wheels off. Getting ganked at a bank? Go to a different bank or find someone or a group of someones to protect you while you bank. this game wil lbe dog eat dog ala UO something some of these gamers havent experience becaues they werent born yet. If you dont like it go back to ___.
Wrong here. It takes N-number of bank-ganks before any player says "F* it, im never playing this game again". People dont like losing without a chance of survival, no 1 does. Unfair open PvP will destroy any game. "dog eat dog" ala UO will satisfy only select players, and there aren't many of them. So no, commercially speaking, DF will not succeed if it encourages griefing.
Originally posted by lvlanoob I think you raise a really good point about griefers. I think the particular point that you raise shows how this game will be much more group/clan centric than tailored for solo play. If a group ganks you and you need to finish a quest, your best course of action would probably be to get your friends and/or clan and go do some headhunting. Trying to take the griefers on by yourself would be meaningless. I like to socialize more than go solo, so this probably won't bother me too much. Those who like to solo and 'lose' themselves in the game might find the griefers more difficult to deal with. I think the main people soloing will probably be criminals sneaking up on people. Who knows really lol. I guess we will figure it out after it realeases.
I hope you are wrong, because if you are right and DF is more guild/clan oriented like Eve is, then it will not be a game for me. I also like to socialize, but I have a tight schedule, and my patience is very thin - I tend to bail on a game that forces me to wait. While group/guild oriented content has its own benefits, very often I do not have time to wait for my buddies to come to my rescue. Furthermore, I would feel bad asking them to stop doing what they are doing and help me with my problems, especially if griefing is not severely punished, it will happen left and right.
The best compromise would be to have a healthy mix of group and solo content. But this would be too "WoW" like, which, apparently, is too "easy" for some people and will ruin the game/genre/world, even if it does get 10 million people to play the game.
People dont realize that 80-90% of the population does not have time to spend 5 hours LFGing to get to group content. I hope DF has a lot of solo content. I hope it will not encourage griefing and will not penalize regular players who got griefed.
But, as you said, nobody really knows what the game is. Im very curious about DF and I shall see what it is on 22nd January... if it releases of course.
People dont like losing without a chance of survival, no 1 does.
Thats an oxymoron and perhaps you should learn that; you and the other theme-park, sesame-street genre players...but I mean that with all due respect and distinction between the game-play style of EQ LotRO, WAR, WoW,etc. and Darkfall.
If you lose a fight and your character is beaten, you'r character hasn't survived. But the wonderful thing about DF is that there will, I think, tend to be far greater immersion and sense of accomplishment and game-play when the boring computer-controlled game-play model is substantially lessened, thankfully.
Originally posted by Drakkhen Obviously some of you never played pre-ren UO ...
That is the understatement of the year!
Getting ganked at a bank? Don't be a murderer and use a bank with guards. Using the bank was the least of my concerns in UO.
The main thing that many people are missing is the psychological implications of open PvP. A player no longer feels safe playing solo like every other major MMOG on the market right now. People will be driven to talk to each other, make friends, join guilds, hunt in groups. It draws people together. It creates community. People then have to consider their reputation and then they think about how they treat other players.
Even as a full on "good guy" in UO there were plenty of people on my KOS list just because they were asshats. There were also plenty of murderers who were my friends and wouldn't touch me. Its one of the coolest feelings ever to run into an infamous murdering PK only to be treated like an old friend.
Obviously some of you never played pre-ren UO ... Yes, there will be gankers ... But there will also be anti-pk guilds who do nothing but chase down and kill said gankers. I imagine there will be resource areas (Think Cove) where anti-pk guilds patrol so people can harvest. And corpse looting ... if getting gear is as easy as it was in pre-ren UO, then it's not a problem at all ... especially if you take a little time to work on a blacksmith toon. You guys have all the theme parks (complete with handholding, and teddy bears) you could ever want ... give us our sandbox gankfest!
If I get consistenly griefed for 2 hours, and even if I dont lose much in terms of money/items, but the fact itself that I just lost 2 hours of my RL time fighting the griefers without a chance of success will NOT make me feel good. And I wont care if PKs get hunted odwn by anti-pk clans. All I care is that I just lost 2 hours of my time and I had no chance of avoiding it. I dont think many people would like this system. people like to fight when they have a chance of winning. So the system you are talking about is just another theme park, griefers theme park.
People dont like losing without a chance of survival, no 1 does.
Thats an oxymoron and perhaps you should learn that; you and the other theme-park, sesame-street genre players...but I mean that with all due respect and distinction between the game-play style of EQ LotRO, WAR, WoW,etc. and Darkfall.
If you lose a fight and your character is beaten, you'r character hasn't survived. But the wonderful thing about DF is that there will, I think, tend to be far greater immersion and sense of accomplishment and game-play when the boring computer-controlled game-play model is substantially lessened, thankfully.
Hm, you are talking about the same thing, a theme park. A griefers theme park. What I m talking about is open PvP like Planetside, where you have a fighting chance chance from the start. And the only "griefing" present in the game is:
- if a friendly kills you on purpose. In this case he cant do this a lot. As soon as he hits you several times, he gets grief points and then he gets locked out of everything, he cant shoot or drive for a day. Since you dont lose anything from dying (except 15 seconds respawning) and the PKer is out of commission for a day, thats not that bad.
- if 5+ enemies camp your respawn spoint and kill you over and over. Not much of a problem since you always have several other respawn locations available. Easily avoidable and not an annoyance.
So you see, my so called "theme park" that you refer to is just a desire to actually be able to fight back and win unfair fights, OR at least not to lose precious minutes if I do actually get into unfair fight and lose. I dont understand how this can cause discomfort. The only explanation is that "griefers" like to win without competition, cause they hate losing, right?
PS: I dont understand how my statement can be an oxymoron. Care to elaborate?
this game will go the route that fury went is my belive. i enjoyed fury while it was goign but it wasnt for everyone. by using a core mechanic like ffa loot of players the game sets itself up to not last to long.
me personlay i dont mind pvp but the idea of losing something u worked hours on is dumb to me.
i like to enjoy a game not get stuck at a spawnpoint naked cause of some retard withnothing better todo camping my body.
if darkfall was realy wored about succeding then they would have atleast a server without full body loot for those that enjoy diffent aspects of the game such as crafting/pve/pvp and even those wo just like to explore to e the first to do something ingame.
alot more i could type but this more than enough since the fanbois( which they are exactly like the fanbois of wow are) are gonna flame to hell but i dont realy care.seems i understand where this game will go by way the developers act and by other things that they dont seem to understand.
onnly way this game will succed if it does like eve online and has some type of insurance system or areas that are no ffa otherwise they wont be able to keep enough subs to keep the ame running.
I'm kind of looking for a new MMO out there to lay my hands on, this one (Darkfall) for example. So, I don't know much about this game yet. But let me tell you short about me last year:
I was one of those so called "Fan bois" in the Warhammer Online forums. I defended every part of the game and blamed all critizism to be nothing but "trolling"! I was proud of "my" game, during the betas, the launch and a few weeks after launch. After a while though, I began to slowly, slowly open my eyes and began to understand the reality. It wasn't fun in the long term, it was boring but most of all: released to early!!
Today, after WAR seems to be "flopping" more and more for every days that goes by so I simply recomend any mmo developers out there to rather delay their game instead of releasing an unfinished product.
Okej, no one may never be able to release a totally perfect game at launch. But it gotta be close, buisness is though out there.
this game will go the route that fury went is my belive. i enjoyed fury while it was goign but it wasnt for everyone. by using a core mechanic like ffa loot of players the game sets itself up to not last to long.
me personlay i dont mind pvp but the idea of losing something u worked hours on is dumb to me. i like to enjoy a game not get stuck at a spawnpoint naked cause of some retard withnothing better todo camping my body. if darkfall was realy wored about succeding then they would have atleast a server without full body loot for those that enjoy diffent aspects of the game such as crafting/pve/pvp and even those wo just like to explore to e the first to do something ingame. alot more i could type but this more than enough since the fanbois( which they are exactly like the fanbois of wow are) are gonna flame to hell but i dont realy care.seems i understand where this game will go by way the developers act and by other things that they dont seem to understand. onnly way this game will succed if it does like eve online and has some type of insurance system or areas that are no ffa otherwise they wont be able to keep enough subs to keep the ame running.
Your concern about FFA loot was my major concern too. However, someone mentioned that there is no major loss (in terms of items) when you die and get looted. This means your items are very easily replaced so you aren't stuck shiples like in Eve. At least thats the impression that Ive got.
If DF has Planetside style item dependency (which basically has no dependancy, you can lose as many items as you like, you just get them back for free when you respawn), then this may work just fine. We wll just have to wait and see how "item dependant" DF is and how easily people can recover from getting ganked. Getting ganked (griefing) has become my major concern: is it easy to avoid griefers? Do I have a fighting chance to fight off 2-3 griefers or am I doomed to be bullied by people who spend half of their RL getting max skills, best items, etc etc?
Comments
sry screwed up lol
---------------------------------
Mean People Suck
Your theory has merit, but it is still just a theory. The real issue is, even if this game does encourage or does not discourage griefers, how hard is to avoid griefers? Lets say Im ona quest, I get jumped by 5 griefers and they kill me and loot me. Since (at least thats the impression Ive got) the items im wearing are easily replacable, I dont worry about that. Now, what I worry about is how easy for me to move out of the are and continue doing my quest. Is it easy? Or am I stuck waiting for douchebags to leave the area so I can continue with my adventures?
I think you raise a really good point about griefers. I think the particular point that you raise shows how this game will be much more group/clan centric than tailored for solo play. If a group ganks you and you need to finish a quest, your best course of action would probably be to get your friends and/or clan and go do some headhunting. Trying to take the griefers on by yourself would be meaningless.
I like to socialize more than go solo, so this probably won't bother me too much. Those who like to solo and 'lose' themselves in the game might find the griefers more difficult to deal with. I think the main people soloing will probably be criminals sneaking up on people.
Who knows really lol. I guess we will figure it out after it realeases.
---------------------------------
Mean People Suck
Obviously some of you never played pre-ren UO ...
Yes, there will be gankers ...
But there will also be anti-pk guilds who do nothing but chase down and kill said gankers. I imagine there will be resource areas (Think Cove) where anti-pk guilds patrol so people can harvest. And corpse looting ... if getting gear is as easy as it was in pre-ren UO, then it's not a problem at all ... especially if you take a little time to work on a blacksmith toon.
You guys have all the theme parks (complete with handholding, and teddy bears) you could ever want ... give us our sandbox gankfest!
MMO Strategy Guides
Wrong here. It takes N-number of bank-ganks before any player says "F* it, im never playing this game again". People dont like losing without a chance of survival, no 1 does. Unfair open PvP will destroy any game. "dog eat dog" ala UO will satisfy only select players, and there aren't many of them. So no, commercially speaking, DF will not succeed if it encourages griefing.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I hope you are wrong, because if you are right and DF is more guild/clan oriented like Eve is, then it will not be a game for me. I also like to socialize, but I have a tight schedule, and my patience is very thin - I tend to bail on a game that forces me to wait. While group/guild oriented content has its own benefits, very often I do not have time to wait for my buddies to come to my rescue. Furthermore, I would feel bad asking them to stop doing what they are doing and help me with my problems, especially if griefing is not severely punished, it will happen left and right.
The best compromise would be to have a healthy mix of group and solo content. But this would be too "WoW" like, which, apparently, is too "easy" for some people and will ruin the game/genre/world, even if it does get 10 million people to play the game.
People dont realize that 80-90% of the population does not have time to spend 5 hours LFGing to get to group content. I hope DF has a lot of solo content. I hope it will not encourage griefing and will not penalize regular players who got griefed.
But, as you said, nobody really knows what the game is. Im very curious about DF and I shall see what it is on 22nd January... if it releases of course.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Thats an oxymoron and perhaps you should learn that; you and the other theme-park, sesame-street genre players...but I mean that with all due respect and distinction between the game-play style of EQ LotRO, WAR, WoW,etc. and Darkfall.
If you lose a fight and your character is beaten, you'r character hasn't survived. But the wonderful thing about DF is that there will, I think, tend to be far greater immersion and sense of accomplishment and game-play when the boring computer-controlled game-play model is substantially lessened, thankfully.
That is the understatement of the year!
Getting ganked at a bank? Don't be a murderer and use a bank with guards. Using the bank was the least of my concerns in UO.
The main thing that many people are missing is the psychological implications of open PvP. A player no longer feels safe playing solo like every other major MMOG on the market right now. People will be driven to talk to each other, make friends, join guilds, hunt in groups. It draws people together. It creates community. People then have to consider their reputation and then they think about how they treat other players.
Even as a full on "good guy" in UO there were plenty of people on my KOS list just because they were asshats. There were also plenty of murderers who were my friends and wouldn't touch me. Its one of the coolest feelings ever to run into an infamous murdering PK only to be treated like an old friend.
If I get consistenly griefed for 2 hours, and even if I dont lose much in terms of money/items, but the fact itself that I just lost 2 hours of my RL time fighting the griefers without a chance of success will NOT make me feel good. And I wont care if PKs get hunted odwn by anti-pk clans. All I care is that I just lost 2 hours of my time and I had no chance of avoiding it. I dont think many people would like this system. people like to fight when they have a chance of winning. So the system you are talking about is just another theme park, griefers theme park.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Thats an oxymoron and perhaps you should learn that; you and the other theme-park, sesame-street genre players...but I mean that with all due respect and distinction between the game-play style of EQ LotRO, WAR, WoW,etc. and Darkfall.
If you lose a fight and your character is beaten, you'r character hasn't survived. But the wonderful thing about DF is that there will, I think, tend to be far greater immersion and sense of accomplishment and game-play when the boring computer-controlled game-play model is substantially lessened, thankfully.
Hm, you are talking about the same thing, a theme park. A griefers theme park. What I m talking about is open PvP like Planetside, where you have a fighting chance chance from the start. And the only "griefing" present in the game is:
- if a friendly kills you on purpose. In this case he cant do this a lot. As soon as he hits you several times, he gets grief points and then he gets locked out of everything, he cant shoot or drive for a day. Since you dont lose anything from dying (except 15 seconds respawning) and the PKer is out of commission for a day, thats not that bad.
- if 5+ enemies camp your respawn spoint and kill you over and over. Not much of a problem since you always have several other respawn locations available. Easily avoidable and not an annoyance.
So you see, my so called "theme park" that you refer to is just a desire to actually be able to fight back and win unfair fights, OR at least not to lose precious minutes if I do actually get into unfair fight and lose. I dont understand how this can cause discomfort. The only explanation is that "griefers" like to win without competition, cause they hate losing, right?
PS: I dont understand how my statement can be an oxymoron. Care to elaborate?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
this game will go the route that fury went is my belive. i enjoyed fury while it was goign but it wasnt for everyone. by using a core mechanic like ffa loot of players the game sets itself up to not last to long.
me personlay i dont mind pvp but the idea of losing something u worked hours on is dumb to me.
i like to enjoy a game not get stuck at a spawnpoint naked cause of some retard withnothing better todo camping my body.
if darkfall was realy wored about succeding then they would have atleast a server without full body loot for those that enjoy diffent aspects of the game such as crafting/pve/pvp and even those wo just like to explore to e the first to do something ingame.
alot more i could type but this more than enough since the fanbois( which they are exactly like the fanbois of wow are) are gonna flame to hell but i dont realy care.seems i understand where this game will go by way the developers act and by other things that they dont seem to understand.
onnly way this game will succed if it does like eve online and has some type of insurance system or areas that are no ffa otherwise they wont be able to keep enough subs to keep the ame running.
Delay!
Hi btw;
I'm kind of looking for a new MMO out there to lay my hands on, this one (Darkfall) for example. So, I don't know much about this game yet. But let me tell you short about me last year:
I was one of those so called "Fan bois" in the Warhammer Online forums. I defended every part of the game and blamed all critizism to be nothing but "trolling"! I was proud of "my" game, during the betas, the launch and a few weeks after launch. After a while though, I began to slowly, slowly open my eyes and began to understand the reality. It wasn't fun in the long term, it was boring but most of all: released to early!!
Today, after WAR seems to be "flopping" more and more for every days that goes by so I simply recomend any mmo developers out there to rather delay their game instead of releasing an unfinished product.
Okej, no one may never be able to release a totally perfect game at launch. But it gotta be close, buisness is though out there.
Delay!
Your concern about FFA loot was my major concern too. However, someone mentioned that there is no major loss (in terms of items) when you die and get looted. This means your items are very easily replaced so you aren't stuck shiples like in Eve. At least thats the impression that Ive got.
If DF has Planetside style item dependency (which basically has no dependancy, you can lose as many items as you like, you just get them back for free when you respawn), then this may work just fine. We wll just have to wait and see how "item dependant" DF is and how easily people can recover from getting ganked. Getting ganked (griefing) has become my major concern: is it easy to avoid griefers? Do I have a fighting chance to fight off 2-3 griefers or am I doomed to be bullied by people who spend half of their RL getting max skills, best items, etc etc?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.