In wow i can create Ekibiogami on all te servers. In eve there can only be one. The hundred Wow servers all have diffrent markets and you cannot send mail, tells, or group with a new or old friend on a diffrent server. in Eve I can do all these things. Saying that what wow did is the same is silly. Link all the servers in wow and then ill be inpressed. even if its basicl just one massive instance it would be better than this 100 serrver crap.
What he said!
There is one world Eve not multiple clones of the same world.
If i play Eve and you play Eve then we WILL be on the same server and i can interact with you, simple.
What ever the underlying server architecture, it is irrelevant, the user can see and interact with any other Eve player where ever they are in the world!
In wow i can create Ekibiogami on all te servers. In eve there can only be one. The hundred Wow servers all have diffrent markets and you cannot send mail, tells, or group with a new or old friend on a diffrent server. in Eve I can do all these things. Saying that what wow did is the same is silly. Link all the servers in wow and then ill be inpressed. even if its basicl just one massive instance it would be better than this 100 serrver crap.
What he said!
There is one world Eve not multiple clones of the same world.
If i play Eve and you play Eve then we WILL be on the same server and i can interact with you, simple.
What ever the underlying server architecture, it is irrelevant, the user can see and interact with any other Eve player where ever they are in the world!
i agree with these guys on the previous argument in the thread... in wow, am i on the same server (say hyjal) as 40,000+ other players? or does it cap out at like 5,000 players and then the queue forms?
wow has millions of players right? why isn't there a cap of 50,000 players simultaneously per server?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
i agree with these guys on the previous argument in the thread... in wow, am i on the same server (say hyjal) as 40,000+ other players? or does it cap out at like 5,000 players and then the queue forms?
wow has millions of players right? why isn't there a cap of 50,000 players simultaneously per server?
I dont know the cap on the WoW servers is, whether it is 50K or 5K there is a cap, hence the queue.
Once the cap is hit, the queue is started and you can only log in when someone else logs outs.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Right. There is just little innovation or something that makes you go "gasp" in that fact alone. I mean, what does it matter if there is one game world consisting of 100 clusters or 10 gameworlds consisting of 10 clusters each. Same math, slightly different implementation.
Technically there is a MASSIVE Difference. Think of it this way try having a clear communication between you and 4 other people. now try it with you and 49 other people. Small cluster servers are not difficult to manage. But when you have a single Server with a single database that has to handle all the transactions for 10x the number of users at the same time is very difficult. There is a reason why the Tranquility server is closing into one of thetop 500 Server clusters. Not many large clusters exist with a lot of interaction between nodes.
From you statements I would take it that you have little experience or understanding ofServer Architecture and management, and if thats the case you really should avoid saying how simple or something is or that it doesn't matter.
i agree with these guys on the previous argument in the thread... in wow, am i on the same server (say hyjal) as 40,000+ other players? or does it cap out at like 5,000 players and then the queue forms?
wow has millions of players right? why isn't there a cap of 50,000 players simultaneously per server?
I dont know the cap on the WoW servers is, whether it is 50K or 5K there is a cap, hence the queue.
Once the cap is hit, the queue is started and you can only log in when someone else logs outs.
Not sure if this answers your questions
could've sworn i read somewhere that the wow cap was either 5k or maybe 10k per server.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The player cap on a typical MMO server is about 3000 players per realm. In most cases each server cluster will run 2 or 3 realms at a time which is why in WoW when they bring servers down for patching 3 will go down at a time. It is possible though that the busier servers have been moved to their own cluster.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Right. There is just little innovation or something that makes you go "gasp" in that fact alone. I mean, what does it matter if there is one game world consisting of 100 clusters or 10 gameworlds consisting of 10 clusters each. Same math, slightly different implementation.
Technically there is a MASSIVE Difference. Think of it this way try having a clear communication between you and 4 other people. now try it with you and 49 other people. Small cluster servers are not difficult to manage. But when you have a single Server with a single database that has to handle all the transactions for 10x the number of users at the same time is very difficult. There is a reason why the Tranquility server is closing into one of thetop 500 Server clusters. Not many large clusters exist with a lot of interaction between nodes.
From you statements I would take it that you have little experience or understanding ofServer Architecture and management, and if thats the case you really should avoid saying how simple or something is or that it doesn't matter.
Thats the thing, its NOT one server. You see one server but its just a name really. The ONLY difference between WoW clusters and Eve clusters is that in Eve, those clusters (all of them) may communicate with each other. In WoW, only clusters within same server communicate with each other. So in other words, in WoW, server 1 does not know that player X from server 2 just sold an item Y.
This is all from technical perspective. Form the player perspective there is much greater difference because one world = one economy. Imagine WoW's auctions interconnected within ALL the servers...
So I agree that Eve's technology is much better then WoW's, but I dont think it is revolutionary enough to be overly excited about. Could be just me .
I forgot to add that the reason why most MMO's have servers with caps is becuase they are restricted in their dimensions. Most MMOs are not in space, therefore they have terrain and collision. It is much harder to create Eve-sized universe with a terrain you can walk on. The only solution would be procedural terrain, which would make it easy to create a huge world, but at the same time would make it much harder to balance it, to test it for bugs, world holes, tears, object collisions and general artistism. I mean, who would like to see a tree growing out of a rock? That would not make much sense, right?
Eve has no terrain, it is practically free form, you are not bound by terrain. Therefore it is incredibly easy to create a zone: just slap in background, asteroid belts, stations, etc etc. You can do this all procedurally, no need for an artist to spend months and months of time creating a zone by hand. Thats why Eve can afford to have one shard and other MMOs cannot.
You can create terrain procedurally too, and let people zone just like in Eve.
To be honest, i think saying "oh no, we can't do that because we have terrain" is very short sighted.
You can, it has been done on a smaller scale (hello wurm online), and you could easily do it on a larger scale if you want to. The only problem is, that nobody apparently wants to do it, apart form indie devs.
You can create terrain procedurally too, and let people zone just like in Eve. To be honest, i think saying "oh no, we can't do that because we have terrain" is very short sighted. You can, it has been done on a smaller scale (hello wurm online), and you could easily do it on a larger scale if you want to. The only problem is, that nobody apparently wants to do it, apart form indie devs.
I think i listen enough reasons procedural terrain is extremely hard(read: not tangible) to implement. Everytime you make a step you have to check whether you are standing on terrain. Sounds simple? Its not. WIth free-form game like Eve, the only collision you have is between objects. Thats it. There is no "world" so to speak. Just floating objects.
I think i listen enough reasons procedural terrain is extremely hard(read: not tangible) to implement. Everytime you make a step you have to check whether you are standing on terrain. Sounds simple? Its not. WIth free-form game like Eve, the only collision you have is between objects. Thats it. There is no "world" so to speak. Just floating objects.
The ability to have a computer program automatically generate terrain has nothing to do with collision models. and with most terrain the collision models for the ground are simply a Z threshold coordinate that forbids the player from passing below a certain point.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've been playing this game for a couple of months now and I really like it. I've just been running some simple missions, doing some salvaging and mining, lvling my skills, and I've been podded a few times. After a couple of months I still feel like a complete noob. I LOVE it, because I know I've barely scratched the surface of what this game has to offer.
Thats exactly how I felt about the game when I first started playing. But I made the mistake of soloing for too long and stopped playing for a long time after I got to the stage were I could solo lvl 4's in my Battleship.
I still come back every now and then, just wish I had joined a corp earlier.
Agreed 100%. Even though solo play in EvE is possible it really shines in group play. It was when I joined a bigger corp when I understood what EvE is about. It is truely a virtual world and not a single player online game. It is a very special game. And it is certainly not for everyone. But that's ok as long as CCP can pay their bills. Better have a special game than another WoW clone. Nothing against WoW. But we really do not need more WoW clones.
Anyway, what I like about CCP is how they try to push the limit even further. Being a software engineer myself I have maximum respect for them. They're really into state-of-the-art technology, always eager how to squeeze even more performance out of their system. That's cool imho. CPP shows what is technically possible if you try whereas other companies don't care about new ways.
hi ppl just want to point a thing we started talking here about online users on EVE server and now some of you talk about gameplay, make yourself a question if you cant focus in a thread are you able to focus in EVE to reach your goals ? 0/ kthxbye
hi ppl just want to point a thing we started talking here about online users on EVE server and now some of you talk about gameplay, make yourself a question if you cant focus in a thread are you able to focus in EVE to reach your goals ?
0/
kthxbye
C'mon cosy, EVE players are masters of multi-tasking. Who hasn't watched a movie, had a meaningful conversation with the wife, eaten dinner, and programmed a new web page while completing their favorite missions, mined a few belts or camped a gate for 4 hours to catch that one big freighter you knew was heading that way?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think i listen enough reasons procedural terrain is extremely hard(read: not tangible) to implement. Everytime you make a step you have to check whether you are standing on terrain. Sounds simple? Its not. WIth free-form game like Eve, the only collision you have is between objects. Thats it. There is no "world" so to speak. Just floating objects.
The ability to have a computer program automatically generate terrain has nothing to do with collision models. and with most terrain the collision models for the ground are simply a Z threshold coordinate that forbids the player from passing below a certain point.
Without the terrain, you have to only check whether your object bumps into another object. With terrain you check for walls, rocks, trees, plants and other static objects - and any given MMORPG is full of them. Procedural generating adds volume (bigger world) but you can't program it in a way that would make sense visually 100% time. What I mean is, with procedural formula, you'd have artifacts like trees growing out of rocks, which makes no sense. You would have to visually go through ALL of procedurally generated content and test for visual artifacts like that. Which, taking into consideration the size of Eve's world, would be extremely hard to do. Also, Z axis you mentioned is not as easy to implement as you think. What about holes? What about when one terrain does not connect well to another? Then you fall down through the world. Happens with all games. Has this happened in Eve? Nope. Because it doesn't have that dimension. Terrain is like a 4th dimension, but more complex because its not flat and it is full of static objects.
If i were to compare MMO world like WoW to Eve's world, imagine Eve's world where there is an object every 2-3 meters ( a ship/asteroid/canister). Eve world is huge by size but small by number of objects. Every single rock, tree, grass, bush, statue is an object your character has to interact with. Eve doesn't have that.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 What I mean is, with procedural formula, you'd have artifacts like trees growing out of rocks, which makes no sense.
Existing games prove you wrong. I've never seen a tree grow on rock in Wurm..
You need to put some hard work into your creation process, maybe even as much as other devs put into their custom created content. But after that, nothing stops you from making thousands of different worlds..
Seeing as how EVE doesn't have much terrain and uses only simple collisions, 47k is completely reasonable. I love it, really: not having to worry about retarded tactics like jumping around like a fucking rabbit or humping the ground in order to fully exploit the shitty physics of an Unreal snowclone and compete in PvP.
Simple gameplay, unparalleled depth.
While other games have higher concurrent users (across multiple shards) by virtue of having more subscribers, EVE actually has a community worth speaking of and does it all on one server.
But EVE is sort of in a class of it's own. This "OMGz HUEG PPL NUMBRS" record doesn't mean squat to the rest of the market (the other games are built in a completely different way), but at least it's nice to know that Tranquility hasn't died because of an overflow recently.
What I mean is, with procedural formula, you'd have artifacts like trees growing out of rocks, which makes no sense.
Existing games prove you wrong. I've never seen a tree grow on rock in Wurm..
You need to put some hard work into your creation process, maybe even as much as other devs put into their custom created content. But after that, nothing stops you from making thousands of different worlds..
Not exactly tree growing out of stone, but out of steep cliff edge.
Wurm online uses special tile technique, which allowed their procedural formula to be able to change physical world by users. As in, if you dig long enough, you can dig a big hole in a mountain. Its a huge benefit but it has its own drawbacks - tiles are often visually noticeable and esthetically displeasing.
Im not sure if the "chess boar" effect above was intended, but still, notice from the screenshots the number of sharp tile edges.
The whole point of procedural generation is in letting a formula design the world for you. It doesn't matter how complex the formula is, it cannot replace a human 3d artist designing the same world. But thats besides the point. The point is, Eve does not have to worry about any of this. Eve has no terrain, so it does not have this 4th dimension.
Jimmyman99 thats not an example that you can't do Procedural terrain generation its that poorly written formulas for Procedural terrain generation gives you poorly generated terrain. The more detailed the formulas the better the terrain will look. With the right equations you can get a nice enviroment that has waterfalls cliffs, trees, oceans, coastlines etc... just check out some of the Single player city sim games and the automatic terrain generation there. its not hard to auto generate terrain and populate it with flora and fauna. its also key to remember in something like a MMO you will only generate it once then people will go over and clean it up and modify it as nessicary. It allows you to create a large world easily and only need developers to modify small parts of it.
Originally posted by luckypotato One hell of a server.. wonder how they cool it down o-o
Considering that it's a blade bluster, they most likely cool them like normal blades.
And jimmyman99, you got a few facts wrong.
First, your tree did not get placed there during creation process. It grew there afterwards, and was probably planted. The slope is too steep to occur naturally in wurm, it would have been a cliff with rock instead. So it was man made. Nothing new there, you could restrict player created slopes if you wanted.
Second, you can't dig a hole into a mountain. The rock layer will get into your way, and you can't modify it that easily.
The tile concept is something every game uses. Every single game available, because most do their terrain with heightmaps. Wurm has an unusual scale of the tiles, but by increasing the resolution of the heigthmap you can make them smaller, and also apply more sophisticated texturing. Hardly something to use as an argument that this technique is a bad one.
Oh by the way, wurm looks beautiful, without any human ever touching it manually during creation process. Just some variables being changed.
Furthermore, the 4th dimension is time. Eve doesn't use a lot of terrain yet, although the engine is capable of coping with it. This might change in the future, and will probably change with Ambulation and WoD (which i think might be closely related to eve, game design wise). They created New Eden procedurally, and if they make wod huge, they'll use it for WoD too.
To be at least a bit on topic: <&Valkyrie> Tranquility (EVE-EVE-RELEASE@ccp 5.20.72263): OK, 41328 players
Jimmyman99 thats not an example that you can't do Procedural terrain generation its that poorly written formulas for Procedural terrain generation gives you poorly generated terrain. The more detailed the formulas the better the terrain will look. With the right equations you can get a nice enviroment that has waterfalls cliffs, trees, oceans, coastlines etc... just check out some of the Single player city sim games and the automatic terrain generation there. its not hard to auto generate terrain and populate it with flora and fauna. its also key to remember in something like a MMO you will only generate it once then people will go over and clean it up and modify it as nessicary. It allows you to create a large world easily and only need developers to modify small parts of it.
I can't prove or disprove your statement. However, as I mentioned before, you cannot create a formula so detailed it will be 100% esthetically pleasing to the human eye. If there were such a formula, the world would be filled with AI and not humans. No formula can ever replace human brain and human artist. Please do not compare city sims to an MMO, thats like comparing a bicycle to an airplane.
It is much more feasible to NOT create the world procedurally and then go over it manually. thats double work. Its much easier to create a tool, like most games do, to help you to design a level. You can even see job postings specifically hiring level designers for various games. When you design the world manually with that tool, you just use brush tools to lay the basic terrains, hills/rivers/oceans/lakes. If you have ever used Bryce3d, Terragen, Eovia Carrara then you would understand that when you make a world by hand, you make it as realistic as your artistic skill is. When you use a formula, you sacrifice this human touch for the size of the world. Formula will never be as good as a human level designer.
Comments
What he said!
There is one world Eve not multiple clones of the same world.
If i play Eve and you play Eve then we WILL be on the same server and i can interact with you, simple.
What ever the underlying server architecture, it is irrelevant, the user can see and interact with any other Eve player where ever they are in the world!
What he said!
There is one world Eve not multiple clones of the same world.
If i play Eve and you play Eve then we WILL be on the same server and i can interact with you, simple.
What ever the underlying server architecture, it is irrelevant, the user can see and interact with any other Eve player where ever they are in the world!
i agree with these guys on the previous argument in the thread... in wow, am i on the same server (say hyjal) as 40,000+ other players? or does it cap out at like 5,000 players and then the queue forms?
wow has millions of players right? why isn't there a cap of 50,000 players simultaneously per server?
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I dont know the cap on the WoW servers is, whether it is 50K or 5K there is a cap, hence the queue.
Once the cap is hit, the queue is started and you can only log in when someone else logs outs.
Not sure if this answers your questions
Technically there is a MASSIVE Difference. Think of it this way try having a clear communication between you and 4 other people. now try it with you and 49 other people. Small cluster servers are not difficult to manage. But when you have a single Server with a single database that has to handle all the transactions for 10x the number of users at the same time is very difficult. There is a reason why the Tranquility server is closing into one of thetop 500 Server clusters. Not many large clusters exist with a lot of interaction between nodes.
From you statements I would take it that you have little experience or understanding ofServer Architecture and management, and if thats the case you really should avoid saying how simple or something is or that it doesn't matter.
I dont know the cap on the WoW servers is, whether it is 50K or 5K there is a cap, hence the queue.
Once the cap is hit, the queue is started and you can only log in when someone else logs outs.
Not sure if this answers your questions
could've sworn i read somewhere that the wow cap was either 5k or maybe 10k per server.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
The player cap on a typical MMO server is about 3000 players per realm. In most cases each server cluster will run 2 or 3 realms at a time which is why in WoW when they bring servers down for patching 3 will go down at a time. It is possible though that the busier servers have been moved to their own cluster.
Technically there is a MASSIVE Difference. Think of it this way try having a clear communication between you and 4 other people. now try it with you and 49 other people. Small cluster servers are not difficult to manage. But when you have a single Server with a single database that has to handle all the transactions for 10x the number of users at the same time is very difficult. There is a reason why the Tranquility server is closing into one of thetop 500 Server clusters. Not many large clusters exist with a lot of interaction between nodes.
From you statements I would take it that you have little experience or understanding ofServer Architecture and management, and if thats the case you really should avoid saying how simple or something is or that it doesn't matter.
Thats the thing, its NOT one server. You see one server but its just a name really. The ONLY difference between WoW clusters and Eve clusters is that in Eve, those clusters (all of them) may communicate with each other. In WoW, only clusters within same server communicate with each other. So in other words, in WoW, server 1 does not know that player X from server 2 just sold an item Y.
This is all from technical perspective. Form the player perspective there is much greater difference because one world = one economy. Imagine WoW's auctions interconnected within ALL the servers...
So I agree that Eve's technology is much better then WoW's, but I dont think it is revolutionary enough to be overly excited about. Could be just me
.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I forgot to add that the reason why most MMO's have servers with caps is becuase they are restricted in their dimensions. Most MMOs are not in space, therefore they have terrain and collision. It is much harder to create Eve-sized universe with a terrain you can walk on. The only solution would be procedural terrain, which would make it easy to create a huge world, but at the same time would make it much harder to balance it, to test it for bugs, world holes, tears, object collisions and general artistism. I mean, who would like to see a tree growing out of a rock? That would not make much sense, right?
Eve has no terrain, it is practically free form, you are not bound by terrain. Therefore it is incredibly easy to create a zone: just slap in background, asteroid belts, stations, etc etc. You can do this all procedurally, no need for an artist to spend months and months of time creating a zone by hand. Thats why Eve can afford to have one shard and other MMOs cannot.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
You can create terrain procedurally too, and let people zone just like in Eve.
To be honest, i think saying "oh no, we can't do that because we have terrain" is very short sighted.
You can, it has been done on a smaller scale (hello wurm online), and you could easily do it on a larger scale if you want to. The only problem is, that nobody apparently wants to do it, apart form indie devs.
I think i listen enough reasons procedural terrain is extremely hard(read: not tangible) to implement. Everytime you make a step you have to check whether you are standing on terrain. Sounds simple? Its not. WIth free-form game like Eve, the only collision you have is between objects. Thats it. There is no "world" so to speak. Just floating objects.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
The ability to have a computer program automatically generate terrain has nothing to do with collision models. and with most terrain the collision models for the ground are simply a Z threshold coordinate that forbids the player from passing below a certain point.
Record was broken again this past Sunday (Jan18th) with a new high of 48,065 pilots online.
50K is gonna fall soon, I can just feel it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
eve is obviously dying.
Agreed.
The steady increase in subscriptions and concurrent online players over the years is obviously just the dying gasp of EVE.
Thats exactly how I felt about the game when I first started playing. But I made the mistake of soloing for too long and stopped playing for a long time after I got to the stage were I could solo lvl 4's in my Battleship.
I still come back every now and then, just wish I had joined a corp earlier.
Agreed 100%. Even though solo play in EvE is possible it really shines in group play. It was when I joined a bigger corp when I understood what EvE is about. It is truely a virtual world and not a single player online game. It is a very special game. And it is certainly not for everyone. But that's ok as long as CCP can pay their bills. Better have a special game than another WoW clone. Nothing against WoW. But we really do not need more WoW clones.
Anyway, what I like about CCP is how they try to push the limit even further. Being a software engineer myself I have maximum respect for them. They're really into state-of-the-art technology, always eager how to squeeze even more performance out of their system. That's cool imho. CPP shows what is technically possible if you try whereas other companies don't care about new ways.
hi ppl just want to point a thing we started talking here about online users on EVE server and now some of you talk about gameplay, make yourself a question if you cant focus in a thread are you able to focus in EVE to reach your goals ?
0/
kthxbye
BestSigEver :P
C'mon cosy, EVE players are masters of multi-tasking. Who hasn't watched a movie, had a meaningful conversation with the wife, eaten dinner, and programmed a new web page while completing their favorite missions, mined a few belts or camped a gate for 4 hours to catch that one big freighter you knew was heading that way?
But back on topic.... go EVE, 50K, 50K, 50K!!!!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The ability to have a computer program automatically generate terrain has nothing to do with collision models. and with most terrain the collision models for the ground are simply a Z threshold coordinate that forbids the player from passing below a certain point.
Without the terrain, you have to only check whether your object bumps into another object. With terrain you check for walls, rocks, trees, plants and other static objects - and any given MMORPG is full of them. Procedural generating adds volume (bigger world) but you can't program it in a way that would make sense visually 100% time. What I mean is, with procedural formula, you'd have artifacts like trees growing out of rocks, which makes no sense. You would have to visually go through ALL of procedurally generated content and test for visual artifacts like that. Which, taking into consideration the size of Eve's world, would be extremely hard to do. Also, Z axis you mentioned is not as easy to implement as you think. What about holes? What about when one terrain does not connect well to another? Then you fall down through the world. Happens with all games. Has this happened in Eve? Nope. Because it doesn't have that dimension. Terrain is like a 4th dimension, but more complex because its not flat and it is full of static objects.
If i were to compare MMO world like WoW to Eve's world, imagine Eve's world where there is an object every 2-3 meters ( a ship/asteroid/canister). Eve world is huge by size but small by number of objects. Every single rock, tree, grass, bush, statue is an object your character has to interact with. Eve doesn't have that.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Existing games prove you wrong. I've never seen a tree grow on rock in Wurm..
You need to put some hard work into your creation process, maybe even as much as other devs put into their custom created content. But after that, nothing stops you from making thousands of different worlds..
Seeing as how EVE doesn't have much terrain and uses only simple collisions, 47k is completely reasonable. I love it, really: not having to worry about retarded tactics like jumping around like a fucking rabbit or humping the ground in order to fully exploit the shitty physics of an Unreal snowclone and compete in PvP.
Simple gameplay, unparalleled depth.
While other games have higher concurrent users (across multiple shards) by virtue of having more subscribers, EVE actually has a community worth speaking of and does it all on one server.
But EVE is sort of in a class of it's own. This "OMGz HUEG PPL NUMBRS" record doesn't mean squat to the rest of the market (the other games are built in a completely different way), but at least it's nice to know that Tranquility hasn't died because of an overflow recently.
Existing games prove you wrong. I've never seen a tree grow on rock in Wurm..
You need to put some hard work into your creation process, maybe even as much as other devs put into their custom created content. But after that, nothing stops you from making thousands of different worlds..
Not exactly tree growing out of stone, but out of steep cliff edge.
Wurm online uses special tile technique, which allowed their procedural formula to be able to change physical world by users. As in, if you dig long enough, you can dig a big hole in a mountain. Its a huge benefit but it has its own drawbacks - tiles are often visually noticeable and esthetically displeasing.
Im not sure if the "chess boar" effect above was intended, but still, notice from the screenshots the number of sharp tile edges.
The whole point of procedural generation is in letting a formula design the world for you. It doesn't matter how complex the formula is, it cannot replace a human 3d artist designing the same world. But thats besides the point. The point is, Eve does not have to worry about any of this. Eve has no terrain, so it does not have this 4th dimension.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Jimmyman99 thats not an example that you can't do Procedural terrain generation its that poorly written formulas for Procedural terrain generation gives you poorly generated terrain. The more detailed the formulas the better the terrain will look. With the right equations you can get a nice enviroment that has waterfalls cliffs, trees, oceans, coastlines etc... just check out some of the Single player city sim games and the automatic terrain generation there. its not hard to auto generate terrain and populate it with flora and fauna. its also key to remember in something like a MMO you will only generate it once then people will go over and clean it up and modify it as nessicary. It allows you to create a large world easily and only need developers to modify small parts of it.
One hell of a server..
wonder how they cool it down o-o
Considering that it's a blade bluster, they most likely cool them like normal blades.
And jimmyman99, you got a few facts wrong.
First, your tree did not get placed there during creation process. It grew there afterwards, and was probably planted. The slope is too steep to occur naturally in wurm, it would have been a cliff with rock instead. So it was man made. Nothing new there, you could restrict player created slopes if you wanted.
Second, you can't dig a hole into a mountain. The rock layer will get into your way, and you can't modify it that easily.
The tile concept is something every game uses. Every single game available, because most do their terrain with heightmaps. Wurm has an unusual scale of the tiles, but by increasing the resolution of the heigthmap you can make them smaller, and also apply more sophisticated texturing. Hardly something to use as an argument that this technique is a bad one.
Oh by the way, wurm looks beautiful, without any human ever touching it manually during creation process. Just some variables being changed.
Furthermore, the 4th dimension is time. Eve doesn't use a lot of terrain yet, although the engine is capable of coping with it. This might change in the future, and will probably change with Ambulation and WoD (which i think might be closely related to eve, game design wise). They created New Eden procedurally, and if they make wod huge, they'll use it for WoD too.
To be at least a bit on topic:
<&Valkyrie> Tranquility (EVE-EVE-RELEASE@ccp 5.20.72263): OK, 41328 players
Maybe tomorrow
I can't prove or disprove your statement. However, as I mentioned before, you cannot create a formula so detailed it will be 100% esthetically pleasing to the human eye. If there were such a formula, the world would be filled with AI and not humans. No formula can ever replace human brain and human artist. Please do not compare city sims to an MMO, thats like comparing a bicycle to an airplane.
It is much more feasible to NOT create the world procedurally and then go over it manually. thats double work. Its much easier to create a tool, like most games do, to help you to design a level. You can even see job postings specifically hiring level designers for various games. When you design the world manually with that tool, you just use brush tools to lay the basic terrains, hills/rivers/oceans/lakes. If you have ever used Bryce3d, Terragen, Eovia Carrara then you would understand that when you make a world by hand, you make it as realistic as your artistic skill is. When you use a formula, you sacrifice this human touch for the size of the world. Formula will never be as good as a human level designer.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.