Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The future of MMO's - Item mall
Mustarastas
Member UncommonPosts: 79
As was sayd by one inside MMO business, the future looks like a huge Item mall written all over the place. Item mall gets some people spend hundreds of dollars per month on virtual items rather than just the subscription that they now pay. They have understood that MMO players usually have jobs and that they dont live on weekly allowance but rather have incomes of thousands of dollars. Keep the monthly subscrition to keep away the freebie players (Kids and poor players from poor countries) so that the servers arent constantly stuck and so on. Everquest seems to be taking a step forward to this by having their Station Cash now. In future its not "dont drink and drive" but rather "dont drink and play".
Any reflections?
Comments
I really hope this is not the future business models for these type of games. I am hoping Sony is just experimenting and noticing this will not work for a western market.
MMOs Played: I can no longer list them all in the 500 character limit.
If EA Bioware's The Old Republic is successful, and I think it will be, it will open the floodgates for more high profile mt based games. I urge people who don't like the idea of mt's to boycott them.
What does anyone in the industry expect? When the big developing houses buy all the small developing houses that are worth a crap, this is the end result. They all want WoW money and not a single one of them have been able to make a game that maintains a concurrent subscriber base of a million or more paying customers of $15 save ONE, and that is Blizzard's World of Warcraft.
Years ago, these small houses would rely on 100,000-300,000 subscribers paying $15 a month for their game and profited nicely with $1,500,000- $4,500,000 a month revenue. Look at AoC, WAR, LOTRO, Vanguard... all of them reportly cost from $50,000,000-$100,000,000 to make. The only one happy out of that is SoE because they would rather have 20 games with 100,000 subscribers each on average than one hugely successful one. All the rest say they are losing money and turning to RMT because they need to squeeze more dollars out of each of their products.
Been to the Blizzard store recently or seen their financials? Blizzard does over a BILLION dollars a year in revenue. Most of it comes from subscription revenue but there is also a full cult follow that buys everything Warcraft or Diablo related.
All of these companies want WoW like money. Yet Turbine is the only one that followed Blizzard's lead and made a game that can go on nearly any system. Like it or not, the higher end PC requirements for your game, the fewer people you are going to get to play your game. That is KEY to Blizzard's success. The only upcoming game that recognizes this is Darkfall Online and they've opted for gameplay over graphics and we'll see next week exactly how well they did building their game.
I hate to say it, but within the next few years I believe that only Blizzard will be left standing with $15 a month unlimited play without and item mall. All the rest, I believe will be milking us for money.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
At Shannia.
You are absolutely right in that Blizzard makes tons of money with World of Warcraft. 11million subscriber paying in average 15$/month = 165million/month income from WoW subscriptions.
I do not intend to argue that "Item Mall" will definetely be the future, but I ask you to consider whether even Blizzards share owners will want to double this amount. If theres a way for this, its legit, and wont kill the game, and has been done in most games already - its possible that they will as well. Hell... they have over 2 billions in bank sitting (had 3 before they opted buypack shares) and are they really using this to develop their game? How many new quest types we got in last expansion? I think a group of monkeys with enough bananas would think of more ways of using bananas in two years than the people in Blizzard made new stuff into WoW.
Good point. Their last financial statement says Blizzard lost money. The only reason for that is because the "Cash Cow" had to pay for the Blizzard/Activision merger. The real nice thing that Blizzard does right now is give away rare mounts, items, and such for ingame at their convention. Everything they do give away is just "fluff" stuff, but people go nuts over it. They could make even more money selling that stuff. Blizzard makes a fortune off of server transfers, character makeovers, and even name changes. I'm sure they could try the item mall thing, but right now they have the "golden egg" and I don't know if I'd mess that up if I were them.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Micro Transactions are indeed the way of the future...
This isnt about WoW... it is about Itunes, Amazon, XBox Live, PSN, etc. The way that things are being purchased has changed, and anyone with any common sense has caught on (ok, the RIAA still hasnt figured it out).
Sony has just announced a $1.2 BN loss, coming from retail/electronics (ok, it was the PS3). They have moved one of thier most effective groups SOE, into the gaming division, and it is taking charge. They are pushing PSN as a way to sell music and videos (via microtransactions) and will be adding games (FreeRealms, The Agency, DC Universe) as well. These will all use microtransactions to monitize thier value, and to maximize returns.
This is not so much a change in how GAMES are being monitized, but in how ENTERTAINMENT is. MTV is using Rock Band to promote and sell songs, all via microtransactions. Major Media publishers (Hearst and one in Germany) are also investing in the gaming industry, as they see this as a good location for thier money in a down economy.
It may be the future of MMO for the lazy , no pride, instant gratification WOW generation crowd, but more than likely for the rest of us may just leave MMO gaming alltogether losing potiental subscribers who actually have their own credit cards and instead of mommy and daddy's.
Don't know where you get ur info.
"According to one of Yee's 2005 studies, 84 percent of "World of Warcraft" players are male, and 16 percent are female. The average player's age is 28, and female players tend to be a few years older than male players. Regardless of their gender, players spend an average of 21 to 22 hours a week playing the game [source: Yee, WoW Demographics]. Of course, these statistics may have shifted since Yee collected his data. You can learn more about Yee's research at The Daedalus Project."
The "rest of you" are a very subset that just QQ about everything. The larger market, including a lot of adults, as shown by REAL RESEARCH, is buying where WOW is going.
I seriously doubt that SOE would rather have 20 100,000 subscriber games than one hugely successful one. They intended EQII to become what WoW is today. The resulting cache of games in thier "Station pass" is just a contingency plan that seems to be working well for them. Think of the effort ($$$) required to update and maintain every game under SOE's umbrella, While WoW with many more subscribers and just one game to focuse on can continue to thrive.
I seriously doubt that SOE would rather have 20 100,000 subscriber games than one hugely successful one. They intended EQII to become what WoW is today. The resulting cache of games in thier "Station pass" is just a contingency plan that seems to be working well for them. Think of the effort ($$$) required to update and maintain every game under SOE's umbrella, While WoW with many more subscribers and just one game to focuse on can continue to thrive.
the majority of sonys games dont get updated that often.
imo if you gather all thier MMOs except EQ2 together the amount of shit they added up would equal what blizzard adds to WoW. kinda sad.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
While the industry is moving toward microtransactions, that's not necessarily a bad thing. It depends on what the item malls sell. f they sell better swords and armors and so forth, then yes, that's a very bad thing.
On the other hand, Guild Wars is technically microtransactions, and has less in the way of unbalancing stuff than, say, WoW. If a company adds fluff items that are obviously useless for combat, crafting, and everything else except showing off, so what? Would it be a problem if a company had an item mall that let you buy an hour of game time for $1, as an alternative to the monthly subscription? Or if it let you buy extra slots for alts, as Guild Wars does?
Game-breaking item malls aren't going to take over the industry. There are a lot of players willing to pay a monthly fee, but who would strongly object to being able to buy too much from an item mall. There is a lot of money to be made by building games for such players. See, for example, WoW.
I do think that games with both subscriptions and unbalancing item malls will become more common. But the games that will take that route will be the ones that today would have gone "free to play" with an item mall. (Well, that and games made by SOE.) Add a nominal monthly fee like $1/month and you filter out the people who would never be willing to pay a dime. For that matter, make that $1 monthly fee get you $2 worth of item mall credit and you can probably largely pacify the people who would eventually have spent a lot of money there, though the people who want free to play forever will still scream.
Reflections?
Only that the corperations are the ones doing the writing, to push a model that benefits only them, and yet people swallow their spin and propaganda as if somehow the subscription model had been proven to have failed.
Listen, I have talked about this a million times, and am a little fried by the fact that people still make new threads up about it as if nothing had been said by anyone. It makes it seem so futile to even try and discuss something when people won't even use search to keep all the thoughts in one place.
I will cut and paste some random points I have made, and let you see what reflecting I have done for yourself;
http://www.massively.com/2009/01/11/soe-expects-the-ps3-to-be-half-their-business/
The amount of people out there that don't care about anything until it bites them on the butt is amazing. Gamers are the only comsumers that i have seen that actively argue to be ripped off. I saw the same thing when the consoles started pushing 6hr games on us, and I see it now- Consumers willing to swallow the lies, propaganda
I think that gives an idea of how I see things, I am sorry for the repetition, but I hope some get it.
I see Vesuvius' oft-repeated points...but in the end I agree with Quizzical.
Microtransactions are not automatically a bad thing. It depends on the execution.
I don't think it is simple black-and-white"Monthly fee = best thing ever, Item Mall = worst thing ever" like vesuvius does. I think there are shades of grey in there, and that's where it will be determined whether Item Malls are the future or just a failed fad.
it all depends on what is being sold, and whether there is a Monthly Fee or not.
If unbalancing items and weapons and armor are being sold, then it is a horrible thing, just like Vesuvius says.
If it is a Monthly Fee + Cash Shop, then it is a horrible thing. (I'm looking at you, SOE)You should not have to pay for Item Mall games, imo. Not even a retail price. an Item Mall game should make all of its money from the Item Mall, as the Item mall has the potential to bring them more money than a monthly fee anyway. having both is just greed, pure and simple.
however, if the Item Mall is balanced and does not contain game-breaking items in it, then I don't see much wrong with it. there are items that can be sold that do not throw the game out of balance. it's a matter of the developers finding these things and avoiding things that DO unbalance the game.
Developers will need to ensure that the player does not *have* to pay at the Item Mall to get the most out of the game. You should be able to do everything possible without paying anything, if you so choose. But at the same time, they need to provide desirable items that players will *want* to pay for.
It's a tricky balance that many, many developers are going to struggle with achieving. But eventually someone will strike that near-perfect balance, and at that point Cash Shop games will really take off.
Any game that has micro-transaction or RMT I will not play. Any game I am currently playing that starts to offer this I will quit playing. If this means I have played my last MMO then I will happily go play DOW II.
You vote with every dollar you spend.
*** Edit - and when I leave I will list the reason I am leaving so that the MMO Dev's understand the effect they are having on the genre. Even if it is just me. ***
Guild Wars already has an online store. It doesn't sell XP potions. It doesn't sell mana or healing potions. For that matter, the game doesn't have mana or healing potions at all.
I bought an expansion there, and I bought two extra character slots there. (That is, I have ten characters, rather than eight.) Did that unbalance anything?
Guild Wars already has an online store. It doesn't sell XP potions. It doesn't sell mana or healing potions. For that matter, the game doesn't have mana or healing potions at all.
I bought an expansion there, and I bought two extra character slots there. (That is, I have ten characters, rather than eight.) Did that unbalance anything?
You have to look at the bigger picture to get it right. I also said, amongst other things;
"SOE and the others have a plan, and the start of that plan is too change your spending habits and the way you approach gaming slowly. Slowly enough so you don't even notice. Start off with small things. Station cash in EQ2 is the first step to this, the Agency and Free Realms are the second, the third?
http://www.massively.com/2009/01/11/soe-expects-the-ps3-to-be-half-their-business/ "
edited to clarify.
Agree.
If Item Malls really is the future of all new MMO's to come, then I drop MMO's in a heartbeat and give up on the genre!
I will NEVER EVER going to play a game in wich the gameplay is dictated by how much money you spend in a Virtual Mall.
Thanks but no thanks!
also, I think that any game that offers "straght cash transactions" (i.e. similar to itunes, you pay X amount of dollars straight up, and you get the item) will not succeed. on an unrelated note, I hope none of you screaming bloody murder @ the thought of microtransactions ever uses the Itunes store.
the games that offer a XBoxLive "Points" system (you buy Points in bulk, then you spend the points on the items)will be the ones you have a chance at succeeding.
and going further beyond that, the games that allow the Points to be sold by players like any other game item, through the Auction House for ingame currency will have even further of a chance to succeed.
I will NEVER EVER going to play a game in wich the gameplay is dictated by how much money you spend in a Virtual Mall.
Thanks but no thanks!
and therein lies the real issue.
the game play should not be dictated by how much money you spend. but that does not automatically rule out Item Malls. imo.
Guild Wars already has an online store. It doesn't sell XP potions. It doesn't sell mana or healing potions. For that matter, the game doesn't have mana or healing potions at all.
I bought an expansion there, and I bought two extra character slots there. (That is, I have ten characters, rather than eight.) Did that unbalance anything?
You have to look at the bigger picture to get it right. I also said, amongst other things;
"SOE and the others have a plan, and the start of that plan is too change your spending habits and the way you approach gaming slowly. Slowly enough so you don't even notice. Start off with small things. Station cash in EQ2 is the first step to this, the Agency and Free Realms are the second, the third?
http://www.massively.com/2009/01/11/soe-expects-the-ps3-to-be-half-their-business/ "
edited to clarify.
What if I had bought the expansion off of Amazon (as I did with the campaigns) instead of from the ingame store? Would that somehow make it less insidious? Or is going to a store to buy the game the only "right" way to do things?
Guild Wars has no monthly fee. They have to charge for something, or else they get no money.
Guild Wars already has an online store. It doesn't sell XP potions. It doesn't sell mana or healing potions. For that matter, the game doesn't have mana or healing potions at all.
I bought an expansion there, and I bought two extra character slots there. (That is, I have ten characters, rather than eight.) Did that unbalance anything?
I don't even consider the Guild Wars Store a microtransaction, as much as it is simply just an online store. They don't sell ingame items, they sell stuff that you could find in a store. They sell the game and expansions, and they sell character slots(no different than buying a second account to get more characters). The only thing they sell that kind of bugs me is the skill sets for PvP characters, but again that isn't that big of a deal because it just eliminates the rep grind you would have to do if you JUST wanted to PvP, which is what PvP characters are for.
Anyway, to the OP. If microtransactions are the way of the MMO future, then it will be an MMO future without me. I 100% refuse to play any game with RMT or Microtransactions, and will be completely leaving the genre if it happens. RMT and microtransactions ALWAYS end up costing the consumer more for less content, and that isn't right.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I have a well paid job and my game time is quite limited, but I will never play a microtransaction game.
If this is the future of MMO's, I'll opt out. MT is rotten to the core, for the reasons described Vesavius and others.
I will NEVER EVER going to play a game in wich the gameplay is dictated by how much money you spend in a Virtual Mall.
Thanks but no thanks!
and therein lies the real issue.
the game play should not be dictated by how much money you spend. but that does not automatically rule out Item Malls. imo.
The problem isn't with spending money to get an advantage over people who don't spend money. Subscriptions already do that: people who pay the monthly fee get to play the game, and people who don't, don't.
The key is that there has to be a hard upper bound of, beyond spending this particular amount of money, you cannot possibly gain more in-game advantage. And, of course, that upper bound needs to be reasonably low, as opposed to something ridiculous like $100/month.
*looks left and right* hmmm...another item mall thread with alot of the same opinions. . . .again
My overall opinion on Item Malls is that it is all in the execution.
If you execute your Item Mall concept well, and keep it balanced, then you get consideration from me.
If you execute it poorly, like SOE has done, you don't even get a glance from me.
all I ask is that the Item Mall does not = buying your character. the abilities and equipment of my character should be gained through gameplay, not through the item mall. If I suck at a game, I should get better at it, rather than being bailed out by my Visa Check Card.
I believe that Item Malls can be done successfully without what I've typed above happening.