My overall opinion on Item Malls is that it is all in the execution.
It executes the game? I agree
i'd have to disagree with the idea that an Item Mall automatically makes a game not a game anymore.
I've been playing Atlantica Online, and I don't at all feel like it is "less of a game" than WAR, simply because it has an item mall. *shrug*
in fact I was rather surprised at the quality of game they've got there. between Atlantica and Runes of Magic, I can't really decide which is better as a game, and both have Item Malls.
When I look at it from an objective view, given the choices between:
1. 10 hours grinding repution in order to get my pink hello kitty mount.
2. $10 in a Cash Shop to get the exact same pink hello kitty mount.
Depending on how much I wanted the pink hello kitty mount, I'd much prefer the second option and I wouldn't feel guilty about "cheating" because grinding 10 hours isn't "earning/achieving the pink hello kitty mount", it's just being a pawn of an MMO that gets away with giving you a grind and calling it "content".
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Listen, I have talked about this a million times, and am a little fried by the fact that people still make new threads up about it as if nothing had been said by anyone. It makes it seem so futile to even try and discuss something when people won't even use search to keep all the thoughts in one place.
I agree with you 100% that something has to be done about it, but the way you present your reply is a bit puzzle to me. Why do you tell me to "google/search" about things like this when im only making the same case that you are about the problem. Thus making people interested about the issue in general.
Secondly - you seem to be saying something like - "I dont like this Marx poster since it has been posted already seven times".
ps edit. I often do use search option when I look for posts that have definitive keywords with what to look for.
i wouldn;'t mind being able to buy in game currency from the game's publisher, but i don't like the two tiered system of cash shop exlusive items many f2p games have. everything in a game should be available to all who play it, given enough time and effort.
Microtransactions take your money, and give you points (of some sort). You then spend those points to purchase items. This avoids the cost of a cash transaction for a low cost item. This allows the vendor to sell items at a low prices, without having to pass on the transaction fee, which can often be more than the cost of the item.
If you're willing to pay to avoid playing a game, it's cheaper to quit.
again, I agree with Quizzical.
and that Item Malls should not allow you to use your credit card to avoid playing the game. the Item Mall should supplement your gameplay, not replace it.
Having 10-slots instead 8-slots gives you small time advantage against other players. If you do have 2 additional classes in your arsenal when you form your pvp group then that 2 additional classes can form a totally new strategy to a plan.
Dont you see the effect of money in WoW as well. Arent there multiboxing groups of 5-shamans that do rated arena matches in very impressive manner. 2k rating with one group made me think about this.
In EVE online I know peole who spend 200euros on their accounts on month. Just cause they have money to spend it.
In Lineage2 a multiboxer is taken as a "person who has understood what MMO gaming is about".
In short - people are just looking for ways to make it into the top with their wallet. I dont personally mind if they can smacktalk about their God given pvp awesomeness for as long as I dont have to hear about it.
Used positvely:
Like person has presented here: "For some people Item mall offers help". By this I mean that one guy I knew who raided in World of warcraft old times had to buy gold so that he was able to buy the flask etc for raids. He didnt have time to grind gold to get to raid. Maybe game companies could start selling raid flasks (the same flasks you can craft) in item mall for the people who dont have time to grind.
If a game is boring to grind, or you are building your fifth raid character in same scenarios, an xp ticket to make this faster is a nice option in fact. I quitted WoW in the end because I hated levelling my next raid char (shaman).
Death penalty removers: If a person likes to be punished then he can choose not to take the beating, but if theres a thing that can make this penalty go away, I am wiling to pay small amount for this. I often quite games cause of death penalty.
Main case I think for the Item mall is that, If the game companies could roll in the money that for instance gold-sellers get from their business the monie could be used to develop the game, or market the game to get more people involved in MMO's. EVE online has accepted the sales of Gametime cards for ingame money (you can buy these from ingame market) and have sort made the gold-selling business to play into their own hand. And hey. If you have played the game long enough or you grind fe few hours you get your monthly payments paid as well. Works well for me
This list could be continued a lot further but I am not going to give ideas that advance Item malls progress into MMO world.
I dont mind f2ps with an item mall at all....Now p2ps with an item mall is a bad thing but i dont think that trend ill stick.......F2ps with an item mall is win-win for both the game companies and the consumer......It gives alot more flexibility to the consumer....... I dont understand why there is so much whining about item malls......You dont have to buy anything!!.....Just because John Q Public buys a hundred bucks worth of stuff doesnt mean you have to........Ive played f2ps for 2 years now and Ive never spent a dime on them.......Ive also watched players spend alot of money on the item shops then quit a week later.....You have to realize that talot of these same people are buying gold/powerleveling in p2p games also.......
Sure, everyone bravely says now if they implement item malls in all MMO's they'll quit and never come back.
But fact of the matter is, those who remain will probably end up spending more than enough to make up for the loss from you,a nd more importantly, many of you will come back, regardless of what you say here.
I prefer the monthly plan, but if they come out with a good MMO that has an item mall, I'll make my peace with it and keep playing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If EA Bioware's The Old Republic is successful, and I think it will be, it will open the floodgates for more high profile mt based games. I urge people who don't like the idea of mt's to boycott them.
Well we don't even know if it will be MT for sure yet............
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
If you're willing to pay to avoid playing a game, it's cheaper to quit.
Ah, but do you consider a 10 hour grind session "playing a game"?
I don't.
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
------
Mustarastas said:
Having 10-slots instead 8-slots gives you small time advantage against other players. If you do have 2 additional classes in your arsenal when you form your pvp group then that 2 additional classes can form a totally new strategy to a plan.
Taking the time to level more alts gives me a time advantage? Had I only played one character, I can assure you that that one character would have gotten to legendary guardian much faster than the 19 months that it took splitting time between ten.
Regarding pvp, if that were the concern, I could have left a character slot open and created a pvp character of whichever class I wanted, whenever I wanted it. Indeed, the pvp character would have access to everything unlocked on my account, not just what that particular character happened to have, as a pve character does.
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
Games aren't exclusively grind; it's a byproduct of lazy development and can/does happen in every game.
To use WoW (since everyone knows it) as an example; the game has PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.. all of which I like. It also has "fluff" items in the game, (such as the Wintersaber mount in pre-TBC) that are only available for a monumental and repetitive grind.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
Expressing this opinion, I typically receive the response of "if you want it you have to earn it/work for it".
Completing an uber grind is not an achievement because it requires no skill. It should be an option, (for those who want to put in the time investment), however it would also be the perfect candidate for a Cash Shop purchase, since it doesn't affect game balance.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Originally posted by JMadisonIV i'd have to disagree with the idea that an Item Mall automatically makes a game not a game anymore. I've been playing Atlantica Online, and I don't at all feel like it is "less of a game" than WAR, simply because it has an item mall. *shrug* in fact I was rather surprised at the quality of game they've got there. between Atlantica and Runes of Magic, I can't really decide which is better as a game, and both have Item Malls.
Correct. And its a false fear by the less informed, really. True that there are asian games that use an item mall to seed elite content and items for real money, but that aint gonna fly for the western audience.
And for the very reason why I've found Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic to be so popular with more westerners than I've experienced in other eastern titles, might be due to their implementation and management of an item mall that does NOT enable players to buy their way to eliteness.
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
Games aren't exclusively grind; it's a byproduct of lazy development and can/does happen in every game.
To use WoW (since everyone knows it) as an example; the game has PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.. all of which I like. It also has "fluff" items in the game, (such as the Wintersaber mount in pre-TBC) that are only available for a monumental and repetitive grind.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
Expressing this opinion, I typically receive the response of "if you want it you have to earn it/work for it".
Completing an uber grind is not an achievement because it requires no skill. It should be an option, (for those who want to put in the time investment), however it would also be the perfect candidate for a Cash Shop purchase, since it doesn't affect game balance.
Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that.
I'd argue that making items obtainable from grinding is itself a game design flaw, without regard to whether they are obtainable in any other manner.
Originally posted by Ilvaldyr Games aren't exclusively grind; it's a byproduct of lazy development and can/does happen in every game. To use WoW (since everyone knows it) as an example; the game has PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.. all of which I like. It also has "fluff" items in the game, (such as the Wintersaber mount in pre-TBC) that are only available for a monumental and repetitive grind. If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun. Expressing this opinion, I typically receive the response of "if you want it you have to earn it/work for it". Completing an uber grind is not an achievement because it requires no skill. It should be an option, (for those who want to put in the time investment), however it would also be the perfect candidate for a Cash Shop purchase, since it doesn't affect game balance.
So what your saying is it's ok to have bad game design as long as they give you the option to pay them more money to avoid playing the game you have already paid for?
Wouldn't it be better to make the game fun in the first place? If you haven't got enough time for a mmorpg you should be complaining that devs should make mmorpgs for people with less time, not to make them the same and charge you extra for using the service less.
Originally posted by JMadisonIV i'd have to disagree with the idea that an Item Mall automatically makes a game not a game anymore. I've been playing Atlantica Online, and I don't at all feel like it is "less of a game" than WAR, simply because it has an item mall. *shrug* in fact I was rather surprised at the quality of game they've got there. between Atlantica and Runes of Magic, I can't really decide which is better as a game, and both have Item Malls.
Correct. And its a false fear by the less informed, really. True that there are asian games that use an item mall to seed elite content and items for real money, but that aint gonna fly for the western audience.
And for the very reason why I've found Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic to be so popular with more westerners than I've experienced in other eastern titles, might be due to their implementation and management of an item mall that does NOT enable players to buy their way to eliteness.
exactly. in order to succeed in the western audience, they are going to have to change what they view as "sellable" and "not sellable".
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
No, you are right, lazy impatient people don't find earning their stuff ingame fun. The don't find achievement fun. And they certainly don't think seeing other guys who do all this with more/ better gear then them fun.
I guess some people don't find actually playing the game they bought fun.
Makes me wonder why they don't just find a game they DO think is fun.
On a side note, I wonder, in all seriousness, if most people that would buy MT are also soloers?
Well, one thing MMO's could definetely cash in would be the things that require you to grind. If the reward would not be anything that would ruin the end-game balance I dont personally think its bad. If people work 10-hours a day to make a living, I dont think you should demand them for grinding in free time as well.
The day Uber goes for sale is the day Nietzsche has been mis-understood. Being Uber is in your principles. Not in your muscles, not in your racism, but in your creativity. Being better means that - you are relaxed. You cant buy that.
SOE and the other Corps have a plan, and the start of that plan is too change your spending habits and the way you approach gaming slowly. Slowly enough so you don't even notice. Once you are used to it and complient, they will bring on more and more. Whatever it takes to make you spend more and more and more.
For instance, Station cash in EQ2 is the first step to this, the Agency and Free Realms are the second, the third?
MT is loved by the corps because it is more profitable, and it's your money that makes it profitable.
Ypu are arguing for content that should be ingame to be sold as extras to you, and to me thats madness. Was their spin and propaganda that good?
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
No, you are right, lazy impatient people don't find earning their stuff ingame fun. The don't find achievement fun. And they certainly don't think seeing other guys who do all this with more/ better gear then them fun.
I guess some people don't find actually playing the game they bought fun.
Makes me wonder why they don't just find a game they DO think is fun.
On a side note, I wonder, in all seriousness, if most people that would buy MT are also soloers?
you seem to have a generic, very broad generalization of item mall games and the people who play them. *shrug* Every game that has Microtransactions and everyone who plays them fit into this nice little "lazy, impatient player who doesn't want to play the game and earn their gear" box in your world.
I really don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.
I dunno, maybe it is just me..but if the game wasn't fun, I wouldn't play it at all, nor would I spend any money on it. which is probably why I'm not playing any P2P MMOs right now, because I don't find any of them to be worth my 15 a month at this point. (and I've played them all, pretty much).
and again, maybe I'm just the only one, bu I won't play a game that sells any kind of weapons, armor, etc. on its Cash Shop. You seem to think that every Cash Shop game has all the epic armor and epic weapons in its item mall and you just pay for the armor and win.
I can think of two Cash Shop games which are absolutely nothing similar to that. Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic.
I don't really see how you can just flatly equate a Cash Shop with "Not actually playing the Game".
I've been playing and enjoying both of the games I've mentioned, and I haven't spend a dime at the Cash Shop yet. and if I do decide to do so, I won't be buying all of the best equipment available in the game, because those items are not in the Item Mall at all for purchase.
and for the record, I'm not necessarily "Pro-MT", nor am I "anti-MT". I'm on the fence about it. I don't see it as the "bringer of all evil" that you see it as, but I am also wary about it. If MT turns out to be the future, then I'll deal with it. if not, then life will continue as usual, waiting the next decent P2P MMO.
Comments
accept my Xfire friend request dammit!
It executes the game? I agree
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
It executes the game? I agree
i'd have to disagree with the idea that an Item Mall automatically makes a game not a game anymore.
I've been playing Atlantica Online, and I don't at all feel like it is "less of a game" than WAR, simply because it has an item mall. *shrug*
in fact I was rather surprised at the quality of game they've got there. between Atlantica and Runes of Magic, I can't really decide which is better as a game, and both have Item Malls.
When I look at it from an objective view, given the choices between:
1. 10 hours grinding repution in order to get my pink hello kitty mount.
2. $10 in a Cash Shop to get the exact same pink hello kitty mount.
Depending on how much I wanted the pink hello kitty mount, I'd much prefer the second option and I wouldn't feel guilty about "cheating" because grinding 10 hours isn't "earning/achieving the pink hello kitty mount", it's just being a pawn of an MMO that gets away with giving you a grind and calling it "content".
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
If you're willing to pay to avoid playing a game, it's cheaper to quit.
Ah, but do you consider a 10 hour grind session "playing a game"?
I don't.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I agree with you 100% that something has to be done about it, but the way you present your reply is a bit puzzle to me. Why do you tell me to "google/search" about things like this when im only making the same case that you are about the problem. Thus making people interested about the issue in general.
Secondly - you seem to be saying something like - "I dont like this Marx poster since it has been posted already seven times".
ps edit. I often do use search option when I look for posts that have definitive keywords with what to look for.
i wouldn;'t mind being able to buy in game currency from the game's publisher, but i don't like the two tiered system of cash shop exlusive items many f2p games have. everything in a game should be available to all who play it, given enough time and effort.
KERPLAH!
Technically speaking
WoW uses an item mall or cash shop.
Xbox Live uses microtransactions.
Microtransactions take your money, and give you points (of some sort). You then spend those points to purchase items. This avoids the cost of a cash transaction for a low cost item. This allows the vendor to sell items at a low prices, without having to pass on the transaction fee, which can often be more than the cost of the item.
again, I agree with Quizzical.
and that Item Malls should not allow you to use your credit card to avoid playing the game. the Item Mall should supplement your gameplay, not replace it.
Negatives of sayd:
Having 10-slots instead 8-slots gives you small time advantage against other players. If you do have 2 additional classes in your arsenal when you form your pvp group then that 2 additional classes can form a totally new strategy to a plan.
Dont you see the effect of money in WoW as well. Arent there multiboxing groups of 5-shamans that do rated arena matches in very impressive manner. 2k rating with one group made me think about this.
In EVE online I know peole who spend 200euros on their accounts on month. Just cause they have money to spend it.
In Lineage2 a multiboxer is taken as a "person who has understood what MMO gaming is about".
In short - people are just looking for ways to make it into the top with their wallet. I dont personally mind if they can smacktalk about their God given pvp awesomeness for as long as I dont have to hear about it.
Used positvely:
Like person has presented here: "For some people Item mall offers help". By this I mean that one guy I knew who raided in World of warcraft old times had to buy gold so that he was able to buy the flask etc for raids. He didnt have time to grind gold to get to raid. Maybe game companies could start selling raid flasks (the same flasks you can craft) in item mall for the people who dont have time to grind.
If a game is boring to grind, or you are building your fifth raid character in same scenarios, an xp ticket to make this faster is a nice option in fact. I quitted WoW in the end because I hated levelling my next raid char (shaman).
Death penalty removers: If a person likes to be punished then he can choose not to take the beating, but if theres a thing that can make this penalty go away, I am wiling to pay small amount for this. I often quite games cause of death penalty.
Main case I think for the Item mall is that, If the game companies could roll in the money that for instance gold-sellers get from their business the monie could be used to develop the game, or market the game to get more people involved in MMO's. EVE online has accepted the sales of Gametime cards for ingame money (you can buy these from ingame market) and have sort made the gold-selling business to play into their own hand. And hey. If you have played the game long enough or you grind fe few hours you get your monthly payments paid as well. Works well for me
This list could be continued a lot further but I am not going to give ideas that advance Item malls progress into MMO world.
I dont mind f2ps with an item mall at all....Now p2ps with an item mall is a bad thing but i dont think that trend ill stick.......F2ps with an item mall is win-win for both the game companies and the consumer......It gives alot more flexibility to the consumer....... I dont understand why there is so much whining about item malls......You dont have to buy anything!!.....Just because John Q Public buys a hundred bucks worth of stuff doesnt mean you have to........Ive played f2ps for 2 years now and Ive never spent a dime on them.......Ive also watched players spend alot of money on the item shops then quit a week later.....You have to realize that talot of these same people are buying gold/powerleveling in p2p games also.......
Sure, everyone bravely says now if they implement item malls in all MMO's they'll quit and never come back.
But fact of the matter is, those who remain will probably end up spending more than enough to make up for the loss from you,a nd more importantly, many of you will come back, regardless of what you say here.
I prefer the monthly plan, but if they come out with a good MMO that has an item mall, I'll make my peace with it and keep playing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well we don't even know if it will be MT for sure yet............
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Ah, but do you consider a 10 hour grind session "playing a game"?
I don't.
If that's what the game consists of, then why are you playing it? I'm not the one who decided to download and play Hello Kitty Online.
------
Mustarastas said:
Having 10-slots instead 8-slots gives you small time advantage against other players. If you do have 2 additional classes in your arsenal when you form your pvp group then that 2 additional classes can form a totally new strategy to a plan.
Taking the time to level more alts gives me a time advantage? Had I only played one character, I can assure you that that one character would have gotten to legendary guardian much faster than the 19 months that it took splitting time between ten.
Regarding pvp, if that were the concern, I could have left a character slot open and created a pvp character of whichever class I wanted, whenever I wanted it. Indeed, the pvp character would have access to everything unlocked on my account, not just what that particular character happened to have, as a pve character does.
Games aren't exclusively grind; it's a byproduct of lazy development and can/does happen in every game.
To use WoW (since everyone knows it) as an example; the game has PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.. all of which I like. It also has "fluff" items in the game, (such as the Wintersaber mount in pre-TBC) that are only available for a monumental and repetitive grind.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
Expressing this opinion, I typically receive the response of "if you want it you have to earn it/work for it".
Completing an uber grind is not an achievement because it requires no skill. It should be an option, (for those who want to put in the time investment), however it would also be the perfect candidate for a Cash Shop purchase, since it doesn't affect game balance.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Correct. And its a false fear by the less informed, really. True that there are asian games that use an item mall to seed elite content and items for real money, but that aint gonna fly for the western audience.
And for the very reason why I've found Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic to be so popular with more westerners than I've experienced in other eastern titles, might be due to their implementation and management of an item mall that does NOT enable players to buy their way to eliteness.
Games aren't exclusively grind; it's a byproduct of lazy development and can/does happen in every game.
To use WoW (since everyone knows it) as an example; the game has PVE, PVP, Crafting, etc.. all of which I like. It also has "fluff" items in the game, (such as the Wintersaber mount in pre-TBC) that are only available for a monumental and repetitive grind.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
Expressing this opinion, I typically receive the response of "if you want it you have to earn it/work for it".
Completing an uber grind is not an achievement because it requires no skill. It should be an option, (for those who want to put in the time investment), however it would also be the perfect candidate for a Cash Shop purchase, since it doesn't affect game balance.
Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that.
I'd argue that making items obtainable from grinding is itself a game design flaw, without regard to whether they are obtainable in any other manner.
So what your saying is it's ok to have bad game design as long as they give you the option to pay them more money to avoid playing the game you have already paid for?
Wouldn't it be better to make the game fun in the first place? If you haven't got enough time for a mmorpg you should be complaining that devs should make mmorpgs for people with less time, not to make them the same and charge you extra for using the service less.
Correct. And its a false fear by the less informed, really. True that there are asian games that use an item mall to seed elite content and items for real money, but that aint gonna fly for the western audience.
And for the very reason why I've found Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic to be so popular with more westerners than I've experienced in other eastern titles, might be due to their implementation and management of an item mall that does NOT enable players to buy their way to eliteness.
exactly. in order to succeed in the western audience, they are going to have to change what they view as "sellable" and "not sellable".
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
No, you are right, lazy impatient people don't find earning their stuff ingame fun. The don't find achievement fun. And they certainly don't think seeing other guys who do all this with more/ better gear then them fun.
I guess some people don't find actually playing the game they bought fun.
Makes me wonder why they don't just find a game they DO think is fun.
On a side note, I wonder, in all seriousness, if most people that would buy MT are also soloers?
Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that.
yes, exactly.
Fluff and "Convienience" items. Like Housing items, Mounts, Skill Respecs, Extra Storage space, and things like that.
take a look at the Runes of Magic Cash Shop, I took screenshots of the entire contents of it:
www.xfire.com/screenshots/madisonthe4th/
Well, one thing MMO's could definetely cash in would be the things that require you to grind. If the reward would not be anything that would ruin the end-game balance I dont personally think its bad. If people work 10-hours a day to make a living, I dont think you should demand them for grinding in free time as well.
The day Uber goes for sale is the day Nietzsche has been mis-understood. Being Uber is in your principles. Not in your muscles, not in your racism, but in your creativity. Being better means that - you are relaxed. You cant buy that.
Are you arguing only that fluff items should be obtainable from an item mall, and not something more substantial? I could accept that.
yes, exactly.
Fluff and "Convienience" items. Like Housing items, Mounts, Skill Respecs, Extra Storage space, and things like that.
take a look at the Runes of Magic Cash Shop, I took screenshots of the entire contents of it:
www.xfire.com/screenshots/madisonthe4th/
SOE and the other Corps have a plan, and the start of that plan is too change your spending habits and the way you approach gaming slowly. Slowly enough so you don't even notice. Once you are used to it and complient, they will bring on more and more. Whatever it takes to make you spend more and more and more.
For instance, Station cash in EQ2 is the first step to this, the Agency and Free Realms are the second, the third?
MT is loved by the corps because it is more profitable, and it's your money that makes it profitable.
Ypu are arguing for content that should be ingame to be sold as extras to you, and to me thats madness. Was their spin and propaganda that good?
Pro-MT people are being played.
If I want the Wintersaber mount, I have no option to do the grind for it; I don't want to do that. It's not fun.
No, you are right, lazy impatient people don't find earning their stuff ingame fun. The don't find achievement fun. And they certainly don't think seeing other guys who do all this with more/ better gear then them fun.
I guess some people don't find actually playing the game they bought fun.
Makes me wonder why they don't just find a game they DO think is fun.
On a side note, I wonder, in all seriousness, if most people that would buy MT are also soloers?
you seem to have a generic, very broad generalization of item mall games and the people who play them. *shrug* Every game that has Microtransactions and everyone who plays them fit into this nice little "lazy, impatient player who doesn't want to play the game and earn their gear" box in your world.
I really don't think it is as simple as you make it out to be.
I dunno, maybe it is just me..but if the game wasn't fun, I wouldn't play it at all, nor would I spend any money on it. which is probably why I'm not playing any P2P MMOs right now, because I don't find any of them to be worth my 15 a month at this point. (and I've played them all, pretty much).
and again, maybe I'm just the only one, bu I won't play a game that sells any kind of weapons, armor, etc. on its Cash Shop. You seem to think that every Cash Shop game has all the epic armor and epic weapons in its item mall and you just pay for the armor and win.
I can think of two Cash Shop games which are absolutely nothing similar to that. Atlantica Online and Runes of Magic.
I don't really see how you can just flatly equate a Cash Shop with "Not actually playing the Game".
I've been playing and enjoying both of the games I've mentioned, and I haven't spend a dime at the Cash Shop yet. and if I do decide to do so, I won't be buying all of the best equipment available in the game, because those items are not in the Item Mall at all for purchase.
and for the record, I'm not necessarily "Pro-MT", nor am I "anti-MT". I'm on the fence about it. I don't see it as the "bringer of all evil" that you see it as, but I am also wary about it. If MT turns out to be the future, then I'll deal with it. if not, then life will continue as usual, waiting the next decent P2P MMO.