I'll take a picture the next time I have a wide-eyed and smiling cultist come to my door asking to talk about my eternal soul, and hopefully you'll stop liking it so much.
Just one reason - ppls are scared of such game.
No one is afraid of your game. No one is afraid of what it "represents". It's not a political choice or even a matter of great import. It's a game. I can't tell whether people say things like this out of misguided sense of ego or a misplaced sense of importance.
The idea give me a life!
it will be the Messiah for pps that are awaiting it
YOu've obviously never visited the SWG forums. Now THAT'S a place where hatred exists.
All I see here is genuine concern and want for more transparancy. For a game that is supposedly in its final stages, there seems to be little in the way of proof for all the DEVS claims. That is not how a real company operates if they've really been working on a game for as long as they claim.You want your game hyped as much as possible so that it you have a big splash on opening day.I've seen more proof of TOR existence than I have Darfall and that game was just recently announced.And the excuse of the team being small doesn't hold water. For me that makes them even more suspect, because what happens when the inevitable bug has to be fixed or the many other problems that arise when a game goes online? The only two conlusions I can come to is
Frustration, dissapointment , anger, hate....... what ever the emotion, its just plain silly. The real question should be..... What does darkfall owe to you? NOTHING...darkfall owes you NOTHING. I mean take it easy on these poor guys. They are an indy group of devs trying to make a great game. If anything we owe THEM. THey are the ones continuing to be part of developing the next generation games that we love. Or at least trying to do so. Without people like them we will be doomed to play the same themepark crap weve been playing for years now for all eternity. So before you take all of your nerd rage out on Aventurine and any other company thats simply trying to make a great game, just remember you have no reason to because Aventurine has nothing at all to owe to you. Maybe you were beaten as a child or you were born with a cleft lip or something...dont take it out on game devs period. it just gets old.
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Aventurine has said so themselves that despite their best efforts they have recieved this unexpected amount of attention. Maybe they honestly do want to take the low road in developing this game? They have been very honest with us by telling us the state of the game development recently, expressing thier concerns about server capacity. HOw exactly are they alienating us due to vanity and ego?
And why are you using the word blame already? There is nothing to blame here. They have not released the game and you havent spent any of your money on them. And no we dont owe aventurine anything. but we should be glad that they are willing to take a risk in order to develop a game that fills a gap in the mmo community. You ask about blind faith? Its not blind faith, its optimism. i mean, how negative can one be to think that the entire game industry is out to screw over subscribers. Developing the game solely out of the goodness of thier hearts? probably not. But out of a passion for gaming? I think so in Aventurines case.
Here is my point. Theres no reason for all of the anger that people put on a company that has'nt taken anything from them. If there is something that aventurine has taken from you or done something to hurt you or your feelings in any way please let me know.
Im not gonna read all the hate and opinions that no one in the world is able to look at objectively.
Few points to note.
Darkfall is not like any other "MMO Failure" that has been the norm in recent years. They are an independant company who hasnt "advertised" like many of the other huge MMOS and they arent trying to gather in millions of players. They are aiming their game at the SMALL niche in MMOs for the players who want all the freedom and thus consequences of said freedom at their disposal.
I dont know what "high profile failures" one of which being a scam the Kien was talking about, so Ill guess. He either means Tabula Rasa or Vanguard. Tabula Rasa wasnt a "scam" it was a TRUE failure. meaning shut the doors we are broke no one likes our game. Vanguard wasnt a scam either it wasnt ready for release. Sure there was a bunch of politcial bullshit behind the scenes, and some of the developers/producers where shady as fuck, but the game COULD have been salvaged if they didnt PUSH for release before it was ready.
All the other recent "failures" are only failures in the sense that they set out and were marketed for taking a large chunk of WoWs subscribers. They are still being played just not at the level of success the publishers thought they would see. So now they will be treated as the bastard step child as the companies try to make a better game.
DFO's intention was to appeal to a VERY tiny portion of todays MMO subscribers. It will be a successful game if it takes 2 more years for them to release(if thats what it takes to deliver what they claim). Because while people will bitch up a storm about everything under the sun until it releases, NO other company is aiming at the same demographic.
Should they be more open with the community as to whats going on? None of us can answer that. We dont know what type of arrangements they have with business partners, or any other numerous reason why they have been so secrective. However it is status quo for them for the pased 8 years so it shouldnt be such a shock to people.
In closing if you dont want to wait for the game to release then dont, but do not critisize the business practice of a company you know almost nothing about. Every business is different. They have their reasons so get over it and keep the faith, or move on.
YOu've obviously never visited the SWG forums. Now THAT'S a place where hatred exists. All I see here is genuine concern and want for more transparancy. For a game that is supposedly in its final stages, there seems to be little in the way of proof for all the DEVS claims. That is not how a real company operates if they've really been working on a game for as long as they claim.You want your game hyped as much as possible so that it you have a big splash on opening day.I've seen more proof of TOR existence than I have Darfall and that game was just recently announced.And the excuse of the team being small doesn't hold water. For me that makes them even more suspect, because what happens when the inevitable bug has to be fixed or the many other problems that arise when a game goes online? The only two conlusions I can come to is 1.) they are in over their head. 2.) this a scam.
Lets check ..
$OE commited scamming ..yes
$OE committed misleading ..yes
They are guilty of taking money of customer to destroy and producing something thats destroy all customer in game belongings...also for selling something for which value they knowed beforehand ..with coming changes it would be worthless ..also with trade Card thing they introduced gambling with real money into the game because its tied to other in game values ...and gambling is forbidden in many countries ..
Thats already an committed online crime ...they earned every bit of the hatred rightfully
Aventurine is at best "about too" ...no court in a civilized world would hold you for guilty for something you at best are "about to" to commit ..If there is no crime ..then there is no criminal act...come later if there is actually happen a scam ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
People are people whether its a gaming company or whatnot. Nothing can escape that fact and when people (in companies) lie to us and build our hopes only to let us down, it gets personal.
People also tend to hold a grudge or at least get very defensive about things where they've been hurt before.. so even if Aventurine didn't lie (which they do) people who have been hurt by other companies may still be on the defensive about potention deception
"Its just a game!!!"
Doesn't matter. People are people and hope is hope, and when companies dip their thoughts into the hopes of people.. the thing is gonna get fuckin personal.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Just one reason - ppls are scared of such game. They realize that they cannot manage such gameplay. There are many downside in it agains "polised" games they like. Such ppls cannot survive a wild jungle and prefer "Disney Land" than something wild and realisitc like Darkfall. I do not like Darkfall itslef i like the idea behind it. I do not care if it will be reasled or not. The idea give me a life! I know that there will be such game soon or later and it will be the Messiah for pps that are awaiting it for so long. I dont know if it will be Darkfall, Mortal Online or anything else. This give me a power to continue to play stupid MMOs full with noobs, stupid gameplay and players. I just await my fantasy virtual reality.
List of points incorrect in any Free Market economy
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Very well said. There always seem to some audience of MMORPG players that just ask to be abused by Developers. They believe any hype and refuse to stand up for themselves, making poor excuses to let Developers get away with arrogance and incompetence.
I've seen others in the past argue your point by saying 'We haven't PAID Aventurine anything yet!' as if that makes any sense. If you walk into a Best Buy, the salespeople shouldn't treat you like garbage just because you're a potential customer. Any successful business has learned you need to treat potential customers just as good as paying ones. Some MMORPG developers have realized this, some still have not.
Maybe it's because MMORPG players are used to those 'hardcore' games where the gameplay itself was a tedious form of torture. They expect in their games, so they put up with it from Developers instead of demanding anything better.
I'm beginning to hate forumfall, so many idiots are there that are like "ty aventurine, you made the right move, we could not ask for a better company developing this game," when aventurine actually screwed them hard, harder than they've ever been screwed (2 of the most important promises the devs made (no delays and no preorders,) were broken). They would have said the same exact thing even if aventurine launched 5 months ago and released an incomplete and untested game and bombed, TheirMindBelongToAventurine But you guys are like the polar opposites, i mean this is straight from the mmorpg.com editor (from the first page on the topic about the DF delay): "Originally posted by Stradden
I wouldn't call it defense. I would call it benefit of the doubt. Like I said in the article, I do think that there is some cause for concern and certainly there are questions to be asked... but when other companies announce delays... even weird ones... we don't often run off screaming vaporware, either. I'm just saying, perspective is key."
Why do you guys hate darkfall so much, did Tasos beat your mothers and kill your dogs? I mean its just a delay. Its expected for any game to have rabid fanbois, but rabid haters should be more scarce, I've never seen a game before with so many people that are so passionately "skeptic"
What you perceive as hate is actually frustration. Frustration at a company purposely being vague to incite these kinds of conflicts within their own community because it generates hype. Frustration at being told fantastical stories with no real substance. Frustration at WANTING a game like DF and seeing trends indicating a twisted broken version of the vision given to the community. Frustration at blind faith idiots who think this game (or any game really) is the second coming.
What you see as hate... really is nothing more then years of frustration brought on by none other then Tasos himself. What people need to do is understand that many of us LOVE the idea of DF... but Aventurine is screwing it up. I would say that some of the fiercest critics are actually the games greatest fans. We are the fans of a concept... while most of the fanbois are fans of a label. Until people realize that Aventurine can and likely will screw the pooch on this... there will be conflict like you are see now.
Those who espouse Tasos as a wicked, manipulative dev are just as rabid and blind as those willing to defend a game they've never played to the death.
When devs freely share their vision for a game, fans claim they are "hyping" it, and, apparently, when devs are silent and/or vague, they are purposefully "inciting conflict" to generate hype. What would you have Tasos do? The only devs that would please DF skeptics are devs that provide actual, in-game footage of a feature-complete game from day one that is notarized in the presence of an attorney, and such devs do not and will not exist.
Stradden is not an idiot--I don't care if you claim not to "owe" Darkfall anything. The fact of the matter is there is no reason not to give a game the benefit of the doubt until it demands money from you, which Darkfall has yet to do. If you are so fragile that you can't afford to get your hopes up when there is any chance of disappointment, you have some growing up to do.
it's cause almost every one of them is a whining kid living at home with their parents with no concept of how the real world works. the ones that aren't are VMs from competing MMOs.
Aventurine are just a small company of developers and old-time gamers trying to make their ideal game and doing the best they can with their limited resources. all these conspiracy theories, while amusing, are just dribble.
Actually based on life experience I would have to say you are TOTALL F'N WRONG!!
I would have to say the blind fawnbois are the ones more likely to be living at home and have no experience in how the real world works. People like Tasos in the real world selling a real product, end up in jail for fraud and their companies get disolved.
Aventurine are a small company with what I have seen over the last 7 years a plan to defraud investors and potentially consumers. It has been done before by several "small" indies and I see no difference here.
You know, most conspiracy theories have some basis in fact......
Edit: Oh looky there I caught you in a stealth edit ROFLMAO
I too have used the HATE word on here claiming to many people hate DF for what the developers have done, or failed to do, when in fact like someone pointed out above the correct word would be FRUSTRATION... This is the correct term as many are fed up of the lack of solid information coming our way, then when we finally do get some it contridicts what was said previously like the release date.
What this manages to do is cause further upheavel by making us all fight against each other due to incorrect information. It is obvious that the small team dealing with the game are so stretched that they don't have the staff to do the small but important stuff such as keep the community fed with it's thirst for daily inforamtion and this is what is causing all the frustration and disblief and is also going to hurt the game when it does finally hit our screens.
It is obvious to the game developers that we have exceded their expectation of how many people have shown such a massive interest in playing this game and they do want to get it right but are being squeezed from both sides, we need to back off and give them the time they need to get this up and working and then once they have we will all have the choice to play or leave. They know they have to get it right as our comments will depend weather the game does become a success or not after we have tried or tested it.
... and yet, most fans fail to sence the tease emitted by the "trolls". Can't you see the biggest pleasure they get is making you upset, which by the way seems far too easy?
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Frustration, dissapointment , anger, hate....... what ever the emotion, its just plain silly. The real question should be..... What does darkfall owe to you? NOTHING...darkfall owes you NOTHING. I mean take it easy on these poor guys. They are an indy group of devs trying to make a great game. If anything we owe THEM. THey are the ones continuing to be part of developing the next generation games that we love. Or at least trying to do so. Without people like them we will be doomed to play the same themepark crap weve been playing for years now for all eternity. So before you take all of your nerd rage out on Aventurine and any other company thats simply trying to make a great game, just remember you have no reason to because Aventurine has nothing at all to owe to you. Maybe you were beaten as a child or you were born with a cleft lip or something...dont take it out on game devs period. it just gets old.
The more appropiate question is what hasn't Tasos and crew done to earn the scorn heaped on them? Honestly I can't think of anything more they could have done without physical contact being involved. He's probably ruined the chance of any game providing the features you crave for years. Go ahead and feel sorry for him though.
I have to disagree on this one.
"He`s probably ruined the chance of any game providing the features you crave for years"
Even if DF is a fraud or a failed game, it has shown the online world that there is a marked for this kind of game. The numbers speaks for itself with more than 200k signing up for a beta test. If a game with features like DF can get 300 k subscribers, there has to ring a few bells in alot of developers head. 300k is twice the number Lotr have and that game was voted game of the year in mmorpg.com.
With all the buzz DF is creating in the online world, mmo companys might try to get a piece of this marked. History have shown that even the bigger sharks can`t make a dent in WOW`s playerbase.
Frustration, dissapointment , anger, hate....... what ever the emotion, its just plain silly. The real question should be..... What does darkfall owe to you? NOTHING...darkfall owes you NOTHING. I mean take it easy on these poor guys. They are an indy group of devs trying to make a great game. If anything we owe THEM. THey are the ones continuing to be part of developing the next generation games that we love. Or at least trying to do so. Without people like them we will be doomed to play the same themepark crap weve been playing for years now for all eternity. So before you take all of your nerd rage out on Aventurine and any other company thats simply trying to make a great game, just remember you have no reason to because Aventurine has nothing at all to owe to you. Maybe you were beaten as a child or you were born with a cleft lip or something...dont take it out on game devs period. it just gets old.
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Aventurine has said so themselves that despite their best efforts they have recieved this unexpected amount of attention. Maybe they honestly do want to take the low road in developing this game? They have been very honest with us by telling us the state of the game development recently, expressing thier concerns about server capacity. HOw exactly are they alienating us due to vanity and ego?
And why are you using the word blame already? There is nothing to blame here. They have not released the game and you havent spent any of your money on them. And no we dont owe aventurine anything. but we should be glad that they are willing to take a risk in order to develop a game that fills a gap in the mmo community. You ask about blind faith? Its not blind faith, its optimism. i mean, how negative can one be to think that the entire game industry is out to screw over subscribers. Developing the game solely out of the goodness of thier hearts? probably not. But out of a passion for gaming? I think so in Aventurines case.
Here is my point. Theres no reason for all of the anger that people put on a company that has'nt taken anything from them. If there is something that aventurine has taken from you or done something to hurt you or your feelings in any way please let me know.
Adventurine has taken all my Hope, and broke my "Give-A-Damn".
I will just keep an eye on the beta leaks for the next moth, if I don't see gamebreaking things (For me) there I will buy it, then some things can happen:
1- I enjoy it: I will continue with my subscription.
2- I dislike it: I will cancel and move on.
3- Has lots of bugs/flaws etc... : Either sub/unsub keeping an eye on fixes/updates.
Why some people is so emotive about things like this? I don't know. To give normal people a laugh reading forums, maybe?
You can find this kind of emotive and irrational fans/trolls everywhere, from sports to music. I use to have good chuckles at work when full grown men with families, expensive suits, trying to give a respectable image all day of themselves, go mad about sports and politics like little kids.
OP: As said before, any thread on a game will attract the "ZOMG SUXXORZ" trolls.
As for Darkfall...after all the games that came out with high hopes, only to fail, people are callused to any good rumors about a new game coming up. Darkfall is promising a lot of stuff, so it's going to get a lot of flames against it.
Oh, and ignore anyone who says, "I'm testing the beta now, and..." If as many people are "testing the beta" as post so on here, that test server must freeze from the amount of accounts on it! They are usually either trolls or fanbois who want to add weight to their arguments, because they have no other real evidence for their claims.
Comments
I'll take a picture the next time I have a wide-eyed and smiling cultist come to my door asking to talk about my eternal soul, and hopefully you'll stop liking it so much.
No one is afraid of your game. No one is afraid of what it "represents". It's not a political choice or even a matter of great import. It's a game. I can't tell whether people say things like this out of misguided sense of ego or a misplaced sense of importance. I repeat- yikes.YOu've obviously never visited the SWG forums. Now THAT'S a place where hatred exists.
All I see here is genuine concern and want for more transparancy. For a game that is supposedly in its final stages, there seems to be little in the way of proof for all the DEVS claims. That is not how a real company operates if they've really been working on a game for as long as they claim.You want your game hyped as much as possible so that it you have a big splash on opening day.I've seen more proof of TOR existence than I have Darfall and that game was just recently announced.And the excuse of the team being small doesn't hold water. For me that makes them even more suspect, because what happens when the inevitable bug has to be fixed or the many other problems that arise when a game goes online? The only two conlusions I can come to is
1.) they are in over their head.
2.) this a scam.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Aventurine has said so themselves that despite their best efforts they have recieved this unexpected amount of attention. Maybe they honestly do want to take the low road in developing this game? They have been very honest with us by telling us the state of the game development recently, expressing thier concerns about server capacity. HOw exactly are they alienating us due to vanity and ego?
And why are you using the word blame already? There is nothing to blame here. They have not released the game and you havent spent any of your money on them. And no we dont owe aventurine anything. but we should be glad that they are willing to take a risk in order to develop a game that fills a gap in the mmo community. You ask about blind faith? Its not blind faith, its optimism. i mean, how negative can one be to think that the entire game industry is out to screw over subscribers. Developing the game solely out of the goodness of thier hearts? probably not. But out of a passion for gaming? I think so in Aventurines case.
Here is my point. Theres no reason for all of the anger that people put on a company that has'nt taken anything from them. If there is something that aventurine has taken from you or done something to hurt you or your feelings in any way please let me know.
Im not gonna read all the hate and opinions that no one in the world is able to look at objectively.
Few points to note.
Darkfall is not like any other "MMO Failure" that has been the norm in recent years. They are an independant company who hasnt "advertised" like many of the other huge MMOS and they arent trying to gather in millions of players. They are aiming their game at the SMALL niche in MMOs for the players who want all the freedom and thus consequences of said freedom at their disposal.
I dont know what "high profile failures" one of which being a scam the Kien was talking about, so Ill guess. He either means Tabula Rasa or Vanguard. Tabula Rasa wasnt a "scam" it was a TRUE failure. meaning shut the doors we are broke no one likes our game. Vanguard wasnt a scam either it wasnt ready for release. Sure there was a bunch of politcial bullshit behind the scenes, and some of the developers/producers where shady as fuck, but the game COULD have been salvaged if they didnt PUSH for release before it was ready.
All the other recent "failures" are only failures in the sense that they set out and were marketed for taking a large chunk of WoWs subscribers. They are still being played just not at the level of success the publishers thought they would see. So now they will be treated as the bastard step child as the companies try to make a better game.
DFO's intention was to appeal to a VERY tiny portion of todays MMO subscribers. It will be a successful game if it takes 2 more years for them to release(if thats what it takes to deliver what they claim). Because while people will bitch up a storm about everything under the sun until it releases, NO other company is aiming at the same demographic.
Should they be more open with the community as to whats going on? None of us can answer that. We dont know what type of arrangements they have with business partners, or any other numerous reason why they have been so secrective. However it is status quo for them for the pased 8 years so it shouldnt be such a shock to people.
In closing if you dont want to wait for the game to release then dont, but do not critisize the business practice of a company you know almost nothing about. Every business is different. They have their reasons so get over it and keep the faith, or move on.
Lets check ..
$OE commited scamming ..yes
$OE committed misleading ..yes
They are guilty of taking money of customer to destroy and producing something thats destroy all customer in game belongings...also for selling something for which value they knowed beforehand ..with coming changes it would be worthless ..also with trade Card thing they introduced gambling with real money into the game because its tied to other in game values ...and gambling is forbidden in many countries ..
Thats already an committed online crime ...they earned every bit of the hatred rightfully
Aventurine is at best "about too" ...no court in a civilized world would hold you for guilty for something you at best are "about to" to commit ..If there is no crime ..then there is no criminal act...come later if there is actually happen a scam ..
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
"Why so much hate for Darkfall?"
People are people whether its a gaming company or whatnot. Nothing can escape that fact and when people (in companies) lie to us and build our hopes only to let us down, it gets personal.
You can't escape personal. Cause we are persons.
--- Thought #2
People also tend to hold a grudge or at least get very defensive about things where they've been hurt before.. so even if Aventurine didn't lie (which they do) people who have been hurt by other companies may still be on the defensive about potention deception
"Its just a game!!!"
Doesn't matter. People are people and hope is hope, and when companies dip their thoughts into the hopes of people.. the thing is gonna get fuckin personal.
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Yikes..is it cold down there in moms basement?
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Very well said.
There always seem to some audience of MMORPG players that just ask to be abused by Developers. They believe any hype and refuse to stand up for themselves, making poor excuses to let Developers get away with arrogance and incompetence.
I've seen others in the past argue your point by saying 'We haven't PAID Aventurine anything yet!' as if that makes any sense.
If you walk into a Best Buy, the salespeople shouldn't treat you like garbage just because you're a potential customer. Any successful business has learned you need to treat potential customers just as good as paying ones. Some MMORPG developers have realized this, some still have not.
Maybe it's because MMORPG players are used to those 'hardcore' games where the gameplay itself was a tedious form of torture. They expect in their games, so they put up with it from Developers instead of demanding anything better.
What you perceive as hate is actually frustration. Frustration at a company purposely being vague to incite these kinds of conflicts within their own community because it generates hype. Frustration at being told fantastical stories with no real substance. Frustration at WANTING a game like DF and seeing trends indicating a twisted broken version of the vision given to the community. Frustration at blind faith idiots who think this game (or any game really) is the second coming.
What you see as hate... really is nothing more then years of frustration brought on by none other then Tasos himself. What people need to do is understand that many of us LOVE the idea of DF... but Aventurine is screwing it up. I would say that some of the fiercest critics are actually the games greatest fans. We are the fans of a concept... while most of the fanbois are fans of a label. Until people realize that Aventurine can and likely will screw the pooch on this... there will be conflict like you are see now.
Those who espouse Tasos as a wicked, manipulative dev are just as rabid and blind as those willing to defend a game they've never played to the death.
When devs freely share their vision for a game, fans claim they are "hyping" it, and, apparently, when devs are silent and/or vague, they are purposefully "inciting conflict" to generate hype. What would you have Tasos do? The only devs that would please DF skeptics are devs that provide actual, in-game footage of a feature-complete game from day one that is notarized in the presence of an attorney, and such devs do not and will not exist.
Stradden is not an idiot--I don't care if you claim not to "owe" Darkfall anything. The fact of the matter is there is no reason not to give a game the benefit of the doubt until it demands money from you, which Darkfall has yet to do. If you are so fragile that you can't afford to get your hopes up when there is any chance of disappointment, you have some growing up to do.
Actually based on life experience I would have to say you are TOTALL F'N WRONG!!
I would have to say the blind fawnbois are the ones more likely to be living at home and have no experience in how the real world works. People like Tasos in the real world selling a real product, end up in jail for fraud and their companies get disolved.
Aventurine are a small company with what I have seen over the last 7 years a plan to defraud investors and potentially consumers. It has been done before by several "small" indies and I see no difference here.
You know, most conspiracy theories have some basis in fact......
Edit: Oh looky there I caught you in a stealth edit ROFLMAO
I too have used the HATE word on here claiming to many people hate DF for what the developers have done, or failed to do, when in fact like someone pointed out above the correct word would be FRUSTRATION... This is the correct term as many are fed up of the lack of solid information coming our way, then when we finally do get some it contridicts what was said previously like the release date.
What this manages to do is cause further upheavel by making us all fight against each other due to incorrect information. It is obvious that the small team dealing with the game are so stretched that they don't have the staff to do the small but important stuff such as keep the community fed with it's thirst for daily inforamtion and this is what is causing all the frustration and disblief and is also going to hurt the game when it does finally hit our screens.
It is obvious to the game developers that we have exceded their expectation of how many people have shown such a massive interest in playing this game and they do want to get it right but are being squeezed from both sides, we need to back off and give them the time they need to get this up and working and then once they have we will all have the choice to play or leave. They know they have to get it right as our comments will depend weather the game does become a success or not after we have tried or tested it.
Asbo
There's no hate but lies I do hate.
Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines
... and yet, most fans fail to sence the tease emitted by the "trolls". Can't you see the biggest pleasure they get is making you upset, which by the way seems far too easy?
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
The more appropiate question is what hasn't Tasos and crew done to earn the scorn heaped on them? Honestly I can't think of anything more they could have done without physical contact being involved. He's probably ruined the chance of any game providing the features you crave for years. Go ahead and feel sorry for him though.
I have to disagree on this one.
"He`s probably ruined the chance of any game providing the features you crave for years"
Even if DF is a fraud or a failed game, it has shown the online world that there is a marked for this kind of game. The numbers speaks for itself with more than 200k signing up for a beta test. If a game with features like DF can get 300 k subscribers, there has to ring a few bells in alot of developers head. 300k is twice the number Lotr have and that game was voted game of the year in mmorpg.com.
With all the buzz DF is creating in the online world, mmo companys might try to get a piece of this marked. History have shown that even the bigger sharks can`t make a dent in WOW`s playerbase.
Aventurine owes nothing. However they need subscribers to be successful.
Alienating potential customers because of vanity and ego is not good business sense. You want to spin this like Aventurine is some sort of victim here, but they are not. They can choose to do things in a proactive and transparent manner. If they fail to provide what develops a good community, then the blame is squarely on them.
It is absurd to think we the community/consumers owe them anything. What exactly are they doing for us? We will be PAYING for the game when it is released... so what community service are they really doing that should garner our adoration? It is that kind of blind faith that is destroying the MMO genre in general. These companies are here to make money... any one of them that says differently is a liar. How naive does a person have to be to think these companies are doing anything out of the goodness of their heart... seriously we are not in a fantasy world... we just like to play in virtual ones.
The failed logic in your post is almost laughable if it was not for the fact that there is a core group out there that believe it to be true like yourself.
Aventurine has said so themselves that despite their best efforts they have recieved this unexpected amount of attention. Maybe they honestly do want to take the low road in developing this game? They have been very honest with us by telling us the state of the game development recently, expressing thier concerns about server capacity. HOw exactly are they alienating us due to vanity and ego?
And why are you using the word blame already? There is nothing to blame here. They have not released the game and you havent spent any of your money on them. And no we dont owe aventurine anything. but we should be glad that they are willing to take a risk in order to develop a game that fills a gap in the mmo community. You ask about blind faith? Its not blind faith, its optimism. i mean, how negative can one be to think that the entire game industry is out to screw over subscribers. Developing the game solely out of the goodness of thier hearts? probably not. But out of a passion for gaming? I think so in Aventurines case.
Here is my point. Theres no reason for all of the anger that people put on a company that has'nt taken anything from them. If there is something that aventurine has taken from you or done something to hurt you or your feelings in any way please let me know.
Adventurine has taken all my Hope, and broke my "Give-A-Damn".
DarkFall FAQ - Read then Question with Boldness
People like drama too much.
I will just keep an eye on the beta leaks for the next moth, if I don't see gamebreaking things (For me) there I will buy it, then some things can happen:
1- I enjoy it: I will continue with my subscription.
2- I dislike it: I will cancel and move on.
3- Has lots of bugs/flaws etc... : Either sub/unsub keeping an eye on fixes/updates.
Why some people is so emotive about things like this? I don't know. To give normal people a laugh reading forums, maybe?
You can find this kind of emotive and irrational fans/trolls everywhere, from sports to music. I use to have good chuckles at work when full grown men with families, expensive suits, trying to give a respectable image all day of themselves, go mad about sports and politics like little kids.
OP: As said before, any thread on a game will attract the "ZOMG SUXXORZ" trolls.
As for Darkfall...after all the games that came out with high hopes, only to fail, people are callused to any good rumors about a new game coming up. Darkfall is promising a lot of stuff, so it's going to get a lot of flames against it.
Oh, and ignore anyone who says, "I'm testing the beta now, and..." If as many people are "testing the beta" as post so on here, that test server must freeze from the amount of accounts on it! They are usually either trolls or fanbois who want to add weight to their arguments, because they have no other real evidence for their claims.