This is yet again another example of how some people are pretending like they know what's going on when trying to explain away these things in their blind support of CME and SGW..
That their employees weren't being paid for a substantial length of time is yet another fact that isn't up for debate. It's been known to be true for close to a month now because it was confirmed by CME employees a few times, one time can be found here. livingworlds.blogspot.com/ and people that have been paying attention and not been desperately trying to put a positive spin on every fact that comes out has seen these things linked to at various sites where this is being discussed.
Sorry I still think your reading into to something you clearly have no idea of at all, this is just my thinking. I do not see it as concrete fact. If you do then good for you If you think the way you do then why are you still stirring things up on these forums?? unless your a troll??
I understand your opinion and accept it, and I'm still interested to know what your speculation is on what he did say and why he didn't dispell the rumours there and then if they're not true?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
This is yet again another example of how some people are pretending like they know what's going on when trying to explain away these things in their blind support of CME and SGW.. That their employees weren't being paid for a substantial length of time is yet another fact that isn't up for debate. It's been known to be true for close to a month now because it was confirmed by CME employees a few times, one time can be found here. livingworlds.blogspot.com/ and people that have been paying attention and not been desperately trying to put a positive spin on every fact that comes out has seen these things linked to at various sites where this is being discussed.
That's a sad story and I don't think CME will find too many investors right now, that's why I believe they'll be announcing a launch soon by digital download.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It is kind of a sad story, but also an uplifting one.
That an outside group would go to those lengths to help the CME employees is pretty cool if you ask me. What makes it even more cool is that particular group has had a great deal of abuse thrown at it by some of the people (I use that term very loosely) over at the SGW forums, some that have been hurling abuses here in this thread as a matter of fact, and they still thought they should help out and did.
It should also have been yet another giant red flag for these "fans" as far as just who they're backing and who they're going to be giving their money to if the game is ever released., but it just sailed right over their heads. Or more correctly their upturned bottoms, since their heads are stuck in the sand and they're assuming the position most optimal for what's going to happen to them.
No thought that a guy as wealthy as Gary Whiting is supposed to be didn't even care enough to toss the CME employees a bit of cash from his own pocket over the holidays.
This whole thing is getting amusing though. These little "ads" for mmoguls in the form of threads on forums or "alerts" that have popped up on any reputable sites that deal with investments and other money matters have been pretty much instantly identified as being ads for some kind of scam, and often get deleted right away.
It is kind of a sad story, but also an uplifting one. That an outside group would go to those lengths to help the CME employees is pretty cool if you ask me. What makes it even more cool is that particular group has had a great deal of abuse thrown at it by some of the people (I use that term very loosely) over at the SGW forums, some that have been hurling abuses here in this thread as a matter of fact, and they still thought they should help out and did. It should also have been yet another giant red flag for these "fans" as far as just who they're backing and who they're going to be giving their money to if the game is ever released., but it just sailed right over their heads. Or more correctly their upturned bottoms, since their heads are stuck in the sand and they're assuming the position most optimal for what's going to happen to them. No thought that a guy as wealthy as Gary Whiting is supposed to be didn't even care enough to toss the CME employees a bit of cash from his own pocket over the holidays.
This whole thing is getting amusing though. These little "ads" for mmoguls in the form of threads on forums or "alerts" that have popped up on any reputable sites that deal with investments and other money matters have been pretty much instantly identified as being ads for some kind of scam, and often get deleted right away.
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty.
I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty. I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty. I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty. I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
Sorry, but you can go try hanging that on someone else. It ain't gonna stick on me no matter how hard the revisionist historians like yourself and others try.
My support for SGW speaks for itself, and I'd still be supporting it if it wasn't for what I feel has been a revelation of a very shady element behind the developer. My asking questions and speaking out about the issue is what got me banned, so I'm happy I did as well.
It's you, and other like you, that should feel ashamed. You're letting some silly devotion to a game have you turn your backs to what's right. Some others are simply being self serving in that they've set up a little "project" that's closely tied to SGW, one different from this mmoguls at that, and they're just protecting their underhanded efforts.
CME and firesky have stated there is no formal agreement or contract with MMOGULS, thats a fact now.
What you feel is your perogative, it doesnt mean its right or wrong, in someone elses eyes they could feel you are misleading people with your statements, that are not based on fact, but on feelings and opinions.
MMOGULS maybe run by GW and friends or whatever, he could even be running from his office in the CME building to save money instead of renting another building or room somewhere else.
This doesnt mean CME or firesky has anything to do with what GW is doing. (this is my opinion, you are allowed to disagree, it doesnt mean I am wrong).
As to your banning on the SGW forums, this was due to your attitude and reactions to posts towards other posters on the forum and not just the MMOGULS posts in that forum. Please dont mislead people into thinking you got banned because you stated your opinion on that forum about the mmoguls issue, the SGW forums are pretty open as long as you respect the other posters and other peoples opinions, it would be more correct to say you didnt do this and that is why you got banned. Yours was not the only ban that happened at that time so dont make it out that you alone got persecuted. Both those for and against were banned, not because of the subject, but because how they treated other people on the forums.
The whole mmoguls thing seems to be getting out of hand and ugly. People expressing there concerns are valid, but those stating there feelings as facts really does mislead people.
A great article on this is here in the blogs section.
yellowperil, to put it bluntly, you are now just completely lying.
There were plenty of members that were on when the ban came about, and commented that it was totally out of line since there were no posts that contravened any of the forum rules, or even came close, made by me at all.
It came completely out of the blue just minutes after I posted in a thread discussing this issue. In the entire time I had been a member of the forum I had received one. that's one, warning for things I'd said in a thread (a thread where one of the moderators had insulted most of the community in by the way, and another mod had snuck in and done a phantom edit not realizing that anyone might have taken a screen capture of the offending post).and that had been months prior to the ban happening.
There were no infractions, warnings, or anything anywhere near when the ban happened, and on a few occasions just prior to it happening, I had been thanked by the community manager himself in different threads for my constructive and helpful posts on other matters.
This was nothing more than a desperate act of silencing someone speaking up about this matter that they knew they couldn't coerce or deceive.
Furthermore, I have no reason to mislead anyone about why I was banned. This nick needs no defending since it'll not be used by me again, and I'll not be back at that site. If you were in the loop as much as you think you are you would know that I requested all my personal info be deleted by the community manager after threats to my person and property were made by members of the community in an off site chat channel.
Which is par for the course around those parts. As one can see as of just a few hours ago, a harmless post is made by someone asking a simple question about Brad Wright's comments, and they are left to fend off attack after attack from the rabid fans, with no intervention is sight from mods, in fact these attackers are no doubt urged on by a couple of the mods behind the scenes.as is usually the case there.
As for the blog, it is well written, but it doesn't go far enough in getting to the core insidiousness of this whole thing. One needs to examine how itzyourmall is tied into all this as well, and needs to examine exactly what mmoguls is and what it's selling (or more correctly what it's not selling), to get a clearer picture of the twisted dealings swirling around the game and the different companies involved, and the smoke and mirror language being used to mislead people.
Both those for and against were banned, not because of the subject, but because how they treated other people on the forums.
What YP says here is the truth. In my exuberance to defend my own opinions, and sway the naysayers into revisiting their arguments and give the benefit of the doubt, I went overboard and allowed my tone to become just as negative as Blakey's. This is in no way a retraction of my opinion, but a desire to rephrase the tone of my words, though I more than likely won't be given the opportunity to do so.
Blakey, you may not accept the mantle of negativity as others are trying to hang on you but you wear it with pride otherwise. Everytime you open your mouth, you add another foot and I'm just curious if you live in a morgue. It's the only possible explanation for you to have enough feet to encompass all the crap you're spewing.
If there is anything that I have said that you can disprove, then you're free to do so. That you can't, and have to resort to taking potshots, and essentially maintain that not taking a hear no evil, see no evil approach is a bad thing, speaks volumes.
The new CoC was instituted well after I was banned, and even then I wouldn't have contravened it.
CME and firesky have stated there is no formal agreement or contract with MMOGULS, thats a fact now. What you feel is your perogative, it doesnt mean its right or wrong, in someone elses eyes they could feel you are misleading people with your statements, that are not based on fact, but on feelings and opinions. MMOGULS maybe run by GW and friends or whatever, he could even be running from his office in the CME building to save money instead of renting another building or room somewhere else. This doesnt mean CME or firesky has anything to do with what GW is doing. (this is my opinion, you are allowed to disagree, it doesnt mean I am wrong). As to your banning on the SGW forums, this was due to your attitude and reactions to posts towards other posters on the forum and not just the MMOGULS posts in that forum. Please dont mislead people into thinking you got banned because you stated your opinion on that forum about the mmoguls issue, the SGW forums are pretty open as long as you respect the other posters and other peoples opinions, it would be more correct to say you didnt do this and that is why you got banned. Yours was not the only ban that happened at that time so dont make it out that you alone got persecuted. Both those for and against were banned, not because of the subject, but because how they treated other people on the forums. The whole mmoguls thing seems to be getting out of hand and ugly. People expressing there concerns are valid, but those stating there feelings as facts really does mislead people. A great article on this is here in the blogs section. http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/UnSub/012009/3223_Cheyenne-Mountain-Entertainment-Whats-Comin-Round-the-Mountain-Next they raise valid points and its a very precise blog, I tip my hat to the author.
Yellow I agree with you 50% CME and firesky (same organization actually) have said they have nothing to do with it.
MMOGULs claims Gary Whiting is involved with thier scheme/scam/whatever.
These are facts.
What I disagree on is that it has nothing to do with CME. If MMOGULs are correct and remember they operate in the same building as CME then CME is very, very much involved. Why you ask?
Well if Gary Whiting is doing what they claim (Gary hasn't denied it and has allegedly given speeches at thier conferences) then he is selling the product (SGW) of his company (CME) through this scam/scheme/whatever.
It would be like Bill Gates getting involved in a pyramid scheme and selling Micosoft windows as a product and Microsoft stating "We have nothing to do with the guys running this scheme or anything they're doing in anyway" when asked. Well I'm sorry but you would, you might have no knowledge of Bill's actions as I'm certain he wouldn't be advertising it to his executives but you'd be involved. Remember ignorance is not a defence.
So I'm willing to believe that most executives had no idea about this MMOGULs thing, and who knows it could be a load of rubbish. Someone may have asked Gary "Hey WTF is this about MMOGULs?" and Gary says "It's all crap I've never even heard of them!". So they post a statement and leave it at that and never mention it again, really they have no need to. I accept MMOGULs may be telling porkies but I'm willing to accept they're not, if not CME is very much involved despite being ignorant to it. If it's untrue then they should sue MMOGULs into the stone age for damages!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
That being said, looking into this just a little bit makes it look fishy as hell, looking into it a bit more and I honestly can not believe there are people here not seeing a huge red flag.
Really, honestly, nothing seems weird about all this?
I would be ok with people defending the bussiness model that are in the work here, thats a moral and ethical judgement call, but in that respect we are all entitled to have our own.
If it is illegal then it is the end of the line for this endeavor, some poor sods will be out a couple of hundred bucks but nothing really life changing, if it is legal then each of us can decide wether or not we want to "invest" in this.
Lord knows people have gone into stranger and/or more risky projects before, but as said, then it is a judgement call, personally I am out.
But claiming it does not exist can only mean one of two things.
You are either ignorant beyond what I would call possible for a human being able to read and write, or you are one that stands to profit from this whole thing at some point.
And the fact of the matter is that the only one in here that has been able to hold a cool head is that Blakey fella who brought this up.
So even if you dont want to bother following the facts on this one, ( but I suggest you do, all things aside it is fascinating reading, ) it is worth keeping that in mind.
People do not get this upset less they stand to lose something.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well Umbrood, although it's sad to see the anger some of these people are displaying, it's really not been hard for me to maintain my cool, since I know without a shadow of doubt in my head and heart that I'm on the right side of this issue.
That, and I genuinely feel more sorry for them than any other emotion.
I, like yourself, am starting to wonder how many of them are already caught up in this MLM scheme. At least one could understand where the hate and anger from those people is coming from then. I think there are definitely some that are just following the game though, and I can't imagine the sickness that must be inside of some of them that would have them carrying around that much anger and hatred over a game.
Anyway, that aside, if you have been fascinated by the issue, I'd politely suggest, if you have the time and are so inclined, taking some time and searching out the various MLM watchdog groups, and victims of MLMs recovery & help groups.
I suggest this because I'm confident that you'll come to see that it very often ends up being a lot more than simply a case of some poor schmo losing a few hundred bucks for many many people that get pulled in to these very nasty things.
Over the course of many many years being very closely associated with a community that examines scams and shams in general, I've had occasion to point several people in the direction of some of these organizations to go get some help after hearing their very heartbreaking stories.
Like I said, they're nasty things, and they do great damage to a lot of people.
That some are willing to turn a blind eye to that, and carry on as if it's not swirling around them after it's been clearly shown to be, well that's yet another sad aspect of what is quickly turning into one of the saddest stories in this mmo gaming industry.
For anyone wishing to express their concern over The Stargate IP being used in this manner to MGM, the owner of the Stargate IP, here are some avenues for you to do that.
You can write to:
Charles E. Cohen
Senior Executive Vice President
MGM Finance and Corporate Development
MGM Television Entertainment
10250 Constellation Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA, 90067
Or email to:
ccohen@mgm.com
Some other MGM contact emails:
mgmonline@mgm.com
4you@MGM.com
MGM might need a wake up call as to just how their property is being used before it's too late.
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty. I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
Sorry, but you can go try hanging that on someone else. It ain't gonna stick on me no matter how hard the revisionist historians like yourself and others try.
My support for SGW speaks for itself, and I'd still be supporting it if it wasn't for what I feel has been a revelation of a very shady element behind the developer. My asking questions and speaking out about the issue is what got me banned, so I'm happy I did as well.
It's you, and other like you, that should feel ashamed. You're letting some silly devotion to a game have you turn your backs to what's right. Some others are simply being self serving in that they've set up a little "project" that's closely tied to SGW, one different from this mmoguls at that, and they're just protecting their underhanded efforts.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
As I have told you a number of times already. That mmoguls isn't "officially" connected to SGW and CME (yet?) isn't being debated.
What is being discussed is that in every single bit of info in the presentations given for mmoguls, including those given by GW himself, that it being very closely tied, in fact it being dependant on being very closely tied, to SGW and CME is never left up for any doubt in people's minds even though they don't come out a directly say it.
They mention the game and the company often n the beginning of their presentations, but are still careful never to mention them when talking directly about the scheme so far.
What they do then is reference "a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and " company developing a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and even talk about how "commands" (now what other game do you know of that uses that term for guilds?) will be ripe recruiting grounds for mmoguls members.
You are of course going to believe what you're going to believe, but calling people idiots because you don't see what they see, or don't want to see what they see, is pretty questionable I'd say.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
As I have told you a number of times already. That mmoguls isn't "officially" connected to SGW and CME (yet?) isn't being debated.
What is being discussed is that in every single bit of info in the presentations given for mmoguls, including those given by GW himself, that it being very closely tied, in fact it being dependant on being very closely tied, to SGW and CME is never left up for any doubt in people's minds even though they don't come out a directly say it.
They mention the game and the company often n the beginning of their presentations, but are still careful never to mention them when talking directly about the scheme so far.
What they do then is reference "a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and " company developing a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and even talk about how "commands" (now what other game do you know of that uses that term for guilds?) will be ripe recruiting grounds for mmoguls members.
You are of course going to believe what you're going to believe, but calling people idiots because you don't see what they see, or don't want to see what they see, is pretty questionable I'd say.
Yes I know but others do believe that, go on TTH and other forums you see it all the time. Even alot of people on here.
Just posting this vid Agricola posted in another thread as an example of what I was saying before. Despite them being careful in their presentations not to link CME and mmoguls "YET", this shows that people still walk away with no doubt in their minds that there will be an "official" connection soon.
There's also the sad comedy factor of the SGW fanboi "denial squad" rushing in and posting their either naive, or deliberately misleading, statements. Like this vid proves, these people pitching this mmoguls don't have to directly say anything, but they make sure there's no doubt in people's minds what companies are all going to be tied together eventually. The denial squad want everyone to think what? That GW and cronies are going to sue themselves? Because that's what it would amount to. It's been shown that all the documentation that can be found has the same person at the head of both companies. It's also been confirmed by people that say they are/were CME staff, and by people saying they're CME investors that were approached by CME to also buy into mmoguls.
Forgive the double post, but after several emails to me asking for some info, I thought it important to post some links for those wondering about these kinds of companies.
There's a good site here, with info and advice both how to spot the scams and get help after being involved in these schemes.
Just posting this vid Agricola posted in another thread as an example of what I was saying before. Despite them being careful in their presentations not to link CME and mmoguls "YET", this shows that people still walk away with no doubt in their minds that there will be an "official" connection soon. There's also the sad comedy factor of the SGW fanboi "denial squad" rushing in and posting their either naive, or deliberately misleading, statements. Like this vid proves, these people pitching this mmoguls don't have to directly say anything, but they make sure there's no doubt in people's minds what companies are all going to be tied together eventually. The denial squad want everyone to think what? That GW and cronies are going to sue themselves? Because that's what it would amount to. It's been shown that all the documentation that can be found has the same person at the head of both companies. It's also been confirmed by people that say they are/were CME staff, and by people saying they're CME investors that were approached by CME to also buy into mmoguls.
I've gotta feel sorry for poor saps that get sucked in like this guy, hoping to make a fortune especially during this economic crisis. It's just taking cash from the needy and desperate to fill Gary Whiting's pockets and fund his Kamaikazie business schemes.
I was also wondering when they expect to start selling SGW? I mean if you're paying 50 bucks a month and don't expect to cash in until SGW is released? I bet Gary is gonna recruit a load of these saps and just when SGW is launched he'll send MMOGULs into chapter 11 and make of with the swag!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by Agricola1 I've gotta feel sorry for poor saps that get sucked in like this guy, hoping to make a fortune especially during this economic crisis. It's just taking cash from the needy and desperate to fill Gary Whiting's pockets and fund his Kamaikazie business schemes. I was also wondering when they expect to start selling SGW? I mean if you're paying 50 bucks a month and don't expect to cash in until SGW is released? I bet Gary is gonna recruit a load of these saps and just when SGW is launched he'll send MMOGULs into chapter 11 and make of with the swag!
Well as I think I mentioned before, there are a lot of people speculating that the whole thing has been a big money grab from the start exploiting all the hype surrounding MMOs awhile back. Remember it wasn't too long ago you could tell people making a MMO was like a licence to print money.
So you go out and drum up investors to the tune of @ $42 million (That's the rumoured investment that went into the start up), spend a few million on setting up a dev house and getting people working on a game, get a forum up and rook fans into showing what looks to be a following to anyone checking out things with investing in the game in mind. Or/and those checking things out deciding on whether or not to get involved with the the other scheme, which is your other quick money grab.
You don't really care if the game is ever released because the rest of the $42 million has already mysteriously "disappeared", and you have plenty of time to rook in more money through the other thing because you can say that the game is still being worked on.
In the end one could pocket 10's of millions out a completely failed development, and skip away whistling all the while. If you manage to walk the tightrope and the game is released, well all the better.
This site explains the "Get Gary Whiting rich quick or go broke tryin'" scheme click, just don't click the join up button! On another site this guy claims to have met Gary Whiting when he signed up,
"Last night, I met the Owner, Founder, and Chairman of the Board for Cheyenne (pronounced shy-anne) Mountain Entertainment, and by the end of the night I joined up with him and his amazing company in a strategic partnership. His name is Gary Whiting and he’s a genius."
and
"Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment and its subsidiaries is a multi-million dollar computer and video game software development company. Gary and his close associates have constructed an elite team of experienced developers, who have over 700 years of cumulative experience in the industry. Altogether, they are responsible for over ONE HUNDRED shipped game titles."
news to me!
He claims that Gary is also the founder of MMOGULs which seems to be true now. The explination of this MLM looks like a standard pyramid scheme to me, not sure why the official forums aren't aflame with this right now!
BTW MMOGULs claim SGW will launch in May, so if you're still interested in buying this and still believe it will launch in a playable condition and don't mind Guild leaders only taking you if you become a "silver member" in some scheme, now you know. Pity CME couldn't be bothered to tell the genuine fanbase, unless it's just another steaming pile that Gary is delivering!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It really is a sad state of affairs when the fanbase has to dig to find information regarding the MLM.
Its even more depressing when you look into how MLM's are run, the terminolgy that is used to hype people up and suck them in. The only winners of this scheme will be the owners of mmoguls and no one else.
From the bits of reading I have done we can see they have listed 7 games, 6 completely unknowns and 1 known, and this has even been officially dropped in the SGW forums as no contract or agreement exists with them (fair enough mmoguls is only just a shop front).
What is scary in my opinion is all these people rushing there 250$ into a itzyourmall mlm and starting there own business, they find 100 people and convice them to be plat partners, thats 25,000$ of revenue they have generated for mmoguls, and they wont get a dime from that. YOUR 250$ is just for a business start up, you will only get money from your mall sales and the monthly fees paid by people you get signed up under you.
My fear is that people are under the assumption that all they need to do is sign up and the money will roll in, no it wont, there moto 'PAID TO PLAY' is misleading, you will need to do sales, and find more accounts to sign up (you dont get anything from that) and pay there monthly fee (this is were your % will come from).
I really wish I understood more about the law, and how a company can actually advetise and mislead people with false advertising and misleading comments. e.g. quoting the sales of GTA4 and wowing them with the sales numbers, on a game that was for a games console and not a pc.
I really hope someone can really dig into this and drag the truth out of this kicking and screaming.
Another sad aspect of it is how some fans following the Stargate Worlds development are still trying to treat this as someone else's problem, and just want people to shut up about it because they think it's affecting the devs and harming the game.
I say so what?
If this guy and any of his companies are going to stay connected to Stargate Worlds, then it should never make it out.
If it does, it's just going to drag the entire Stargate franchise through the mud. we all know how people's minds work, and as soon as the inevitable stories start coming out about people that get harmed by this scheme, most people won't take the time to disseminate the different companies.
They'll just go "Stargate = People trying to rip me off".
It really is a sad state of affairs when the fanbase has to dig to find information regarding the MLM. Its even more depressing when you look into how MLM's are run, the terminolgy that is used to hype people up and suck them in. The only winners of this scheme will be the owners of mmoguls and no one else. From the bits of reading I have done we can see they have listed 7 games, 6 completely unknowns and 1 known, and this has even been officially dropped in the SGW forums as no contract or agreement exists with them (fair enough mmoguls is only just a shop front). What is scary in my opinion is all these people rushing there 250$ into a itzyourmall mlm and starting there own business, they find 100 people and convice them to be plat partners, thats 25,000$ of revenue they have generated for mmoguls, and they wont get a dime from that. YOUR 250$ is just for a business start up, you will only get money from your mall sales and the monthly fees paid by people you get signed up under you. My fear is that people are under the assumption that all they need to do is sign up and the money will roll in, no it wont, there moto 'PAID TO PLAY' is misleading, you will need to do sales, and find more accounts to sign up (you dont get anything from that) and pay there monthly fee (this is were your % will come from). I really wish I understood more about the law, and how a company can actually advetise and mislead people with false advertising and misleading comments. e.g. quoting the sales of GTA4 and wowing them with the sales numbers, on a game that was for a games console and not a pc. I really hope someone can really dig into this and drag the truth out of this kicking and screaming.
Itsyourmall is a store front, its actually itself been running for years plus so you guys know you don't need to go far to see gary owns itzyourmall as its mentioned on cheyenne mountain under his profile.
Comments
This is yet again another example of how some people are pretending like they know what's going on when trying to explain away these things in their blind support of CME and SGW..
That their employees weren't being paid for a substantial length of time is yet another fact that isn't up for debate. It's been known to be true for close to a month now because it was confirmed by CME employees a few times, one time can be found here. livingworlds.blogspot.com/ and people that have been paying attention and not been desperately trying to put a positive spin on every fact that comes out has seen these things linked to at various sites where this is being discussed.
I understand your opinion and accept it, and I'm still interested to know what your speculation is on what he did say and why he didn't dispell the rumours there and then if they're not true?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
That's a sad story and I don't think CME will find too many investors right now, that's why I believe they'll be announcing a launch soon by digital download.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It is kind of a sad story, but also an uplifting one.
That an outside group would go to those lengths to help the CME employees is pretty cool if you ask me. What makes it even more cool is that particular group has had a great deal of abuse thrown at it by some of the people (I use that term very loosely) over at the SGW forums, some that have been hurling abuses here in this thread as a matter of fact, and they still thought they should help out and did.
It should also have been yet another giant red flag for these "fans" as far as just who they're backing and who they're going to be giving their money to if the game is ever released., but it just sailed right over their heads. Or more correctly their upturned bottoms, since their heads are stuck in the sand and they're assuming the position most optimal for what's going to happen to them.
No thought that a guy as wealthy as Gary Whiting is supposed to be didn't even care enough to toss the CME employees a bit of cash from his own pocket over the holidays.
This whole thing is getting amusing though. These little "ads" for mmoguls in the form of threads on forums or "alerts" that have popped up on any reputable sites that deal with investments and other money matters have been pretty much instantly identified as being ads for some kind of scam, and often get deleted right away.
I've never liked TTH only because on so many ocasions in the past they have taken little snippets of information on other things and made it look like fact and proven wrong. Also half of people there when questioned on such topics turn nasty.
I just don't like how they go about things thats all, as for making a big LOOK AT ME as I'm helping CME employees how much of that is actually true in the end?? If its true then good but we are only going by TTH word on the matter.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
Sorry, but you can go try hanging that on someone else. It ain't gonna stick on me no matter how hard the revisionist historians like yourself and others try.
My support for SGW speaks for itself, and I'd still be supporting it if it wasn't for what I feel has been a revelation of a very shady element behind the developer. My asking questions and speaking out about the issue is what got me banned, so I'm happy I did as well.
It's you, and other like you, that should feel ashamed. You're letting some silly devotion to a game have you turn your backs to what's right. Some others are simply being self serving in that they've set up a little "project" that's closely tied to SGW, one different from this mmoguls at that, and they're just protecting their underhanded efforts.
CME and firesky have stated there is no formal agreement or contract with MMOGULS, thats a fact now.
What you feel is your perogative, it doesnt mean its right or wrong, in someone elses eyes they could feel you are misleading people with your statements, that are not based on fact, but on feelings and opinions.
MMOGULS maybe run by GW and friends or whatever, he could even be running from his office in the CME building to save money instead of renting another building or room somewhere else.
This doesnt mean CME or firesky has anything to do with what GW is doing. (this is my opinion, you are allowed to disagree, it doesnt mean I am wrong).
As to your banning on the SGW forums, this was due to your attitude and reactions to posts towards other posters on the forum and not just the MMOGULS posts in that forum. Please dont mislead people into thinking you got banned because you stated your opinion on that forum about the mmoguls issue, the SGW forums are pretty open as long as you respect the other posters and other peoples opinions, it would be more correct to say you didnt do this and that is why you got banned. Yours was not the only ban that happened at that time so dont make it out that you alone got persecuted. Both those for and against were banned, not because of the subject, but because how they treated other people on the forums.
The whole mmoguls thing seems to be getting out of hand and ugly. People expressing there concerns are valid, but those stating there feelings as facts really does mislead people.
A great article on this is here in the blogs section.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/UnSub/012009/3223_Cheyenne-Mountain-Entertainment-Whats-Comin-Round-the-Mountain-Next
they raise valid points and its a very precise blog, I tip my hat to the author.
yellowperil, to put it bluntly, you are now just completely lying.
There were plenty of members that were on when the ban came about, and commented that it was totally out of line since there were no posts that contravened any of the forum rules, or even came close, made by me at all.
It came completely out of the blue just minutes after I posted in a thread discussing this issue. In the entire time I had been a member of the forum I had received one. that's one, warning for things I'd said in a thread (a thread where one of the moderators had insulted most of the community in by the way, and another mod had snuck in and done a phantom edit not realizing that anyone might have taken a screen capture of the offending post).and that had been months prior to the ban happening.
There were no infractions, warnings, or anything anywhere near when the ban happened, and on a few occasions just prior to it happening, I had been thanked by the community manager himself in different threads for my constructive and helpful posts on other matters.
This was nothing more than a desperate act of silencing someone speaking up about this matter that they knew they couldn't coerce or deceive.
Furthermore, I have no reason to mislead anyone about why I was banned. This nick needs no defending since it'll not be used by me again, and I'll not be back at that site. If you were in the loop as much as you think you are you would know that I requested all my personal info be deleted by the community manager after threats to my person and property were made by members of the community in an off site chat channel.
Which is par for the course around those parts. As one can see as of just a few hours ago, a harmless post is made by someone asking a simple question about Brad Wright's comments, and they are left to fend off attack after attack from the rabid fans, with no intervention is sight from mods, in fact these attackers are no doubt urged on by a couple of the mods behind the scenes.as is usually the case there.
As for the blog, it is well written, but it doesn't go far enough in getting to the core insidiousness of this whole thing. One needs to examine how itzyourmall is tied into all this as well, and needs to examine exactly what mmoguls is and what it's selling (or more correctly what it's not selling), to get a clearer picture of the twisted dealings swirling around the game and the different companies involved, and the smoke and mirror language being used to mislead people.
What YP says here is the truth. In my exuberance to defend my own opinions, and sway the naysayers into revisiting their arguments and give the benefit of the doubt, I went overboard and allowed my tone to become just as negative as Blakey's. This is in no way a retraction of my opinion, but a desire to rephrase the tone of my words, though I more than likely won't be given the opportunity to do so.
Blakey, you may not accept the mantle of negativity as others are trying to hang on you but you wear it with pride otherwise. Everytime you open your mouth, you add another foot and I'm just curious if you live in a morgue. It's the only possible explanation for you to have enough feet to encompass all the crap you're spewing.
If there is anything that I have said that you can disprove, then you're free to do so. That you can't, and have to resort to taking potshots, and essentially maintain that not taking a hear no evil, see no evil approach is a bad thing, speaks volumes.
The new CoC was instituted well after I was banned, and even then I wouldn't have contravened it.
Yellow I agree with you 50% CME and firesky (same organization actually) have said they have nothing to do with it.
MMOGULs claims Gary Whiting is involved with thier scheme/scam/whatever.
These are facts.
What I disagree on is that it has nothing to do with CME. If MMOGULs are correct and remember they operate in the same building as CME then CME is very, very much involved. Why you ask?
Well if Gary Whiting is doing what they claim (Gary hasn't denied it and has allegedly given speeches at thier conferences) then he is selling the product (SGW) of his company (CME) through this scam/scheme/whatever.
It would be like Bill Gates getting involved in a pyramid scheme and selling Micosoft windows as a product and Microsoft stating "We have nothing to do with the guys running this scheme or anything they're doing in anyway" when asked. Well I'm sorry but you would, you might have no knowledge of Bill's actions as I'm certain he wouldn't be advertising it to his executives but you'd be involved. Remember ignorance is not a defence.
So I'm willing to believe that most executives had no idea about this MMOGULs thing, and who knows it could be a load of rubbish. Someone may have asked Gary "Hey WTF is this about MMOGULs?" and Gary says "It's all crap I've never even heard of them!". So they post a statement and leave it at that and never mention it again, really they have no need to. I accept MMOGULs may be telling porkies but I'm willing to accept they're not, if not CME is very much involved despite being ignorant to it. If it's untrue then they should sue MMOGULs into the stone age for damages!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Just stumbled onto this, and wow.
Better then the Darkfall forums.
That being said, looking into this just a little bit makes it look fishy as hell, looking into it a bit more and I honestly can not believe there are people here not seeing a huge red flag.
Really, honestly, nothing seems weird about all this?
I would be ok with people defending the bussiness model that are in the work here, thats a moral and ethical judgement call, but in that respect we are all entitled to have our own.
If it is illegal then it is the end of the line for this endeavor, some poor sods will be out a couple of hundred bucks but nothing really life changing, if it is legal then each of us can decide wether or not we want to "invest" in this.
Lord knows people have gone into stranger and/or more risky projects before, but as said, then it is a judgement call, personally I am out.
But claiming it does not exist can only mean one of two things.
You are either ignorant beyond what I would call possible for a human being able to read and write, or you are one that stands to profit from this whole thing at some point.
And the fact of the matter is that the only one in here that has been able to hold a cool head is that Blakey fella who brought this up.
So even if you dont want to bother following the facts on this one, ( but I suggest you do, all things aside it is fascinating reading, ) it is worth keeping that in mind.
People do not get this upset less they stand to lose something.
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Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
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Well Umbrood, although it's sad to see the anger some of these people are displaying, it's really not been hard for me to maintain my cool, since I know without a shadow of doubt in my head and heart that I'm on the right side of this issue.
That, and I genuinely feel more sorry for them than any other emotion.
I, like yourself, am starting to wonder how many of them are already caught up in this MLM scheme. At least one could understand where the hate and anger from those people is coming from then. I think there are definitely some that are just following the game though, and I can't imagine the sickness that must be inside of some of them that would have them carrying around that much anger and hatred over a game.
Anyway, that aside, if you have been fascinated by the issue, I'd politely suggest, if you have the time and are so inclined, taking some time and searching out the various MLM watchdog groups, and victims of MLMs recovery & help groups.
I suggest this because I'm confident that you'll come to see that it very often ends up being a lot more than simply a case of some poor schmo losing a few hundred bucks for many many people that get pulled in to these very nasty things.
Over the course of many many years being very closely associated with a community that examines scams and shams in general, I've had occasion to point several people in the direction of some of these organizations to go get some help after hearing their very heartbreaking stories.
Like I said, they're nasty things, and they do great damage to a lot of people.
That some are willing to turn a blind eye to that, and carry on as if it's not swirling around them after it's been clearly shown to be, well that's yet another sad aspect of what is quickly turning into one of the saddest stories in this mmo gaming industry.
For anyone wishing to express their concern over The Stargate IP being used in this manner to MGM, the owner of the Stargate IP, here are some avenues for you to do that.
You can write to:
Charles E. Cohen
Senior Executive Vice President
MGM Finance and Corporate Development
MGM Television Entertainment
10250 Constellation Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA, 90067
Or email to:
ccohen@mgm.com
Some other MGM contact emails:
mgmonline@mgm.com
4you@MGM.com
MGM might need a wake up call as to just how their property is being used before it's too late.
Oh? You have examples of these things you speak of?
As for the "we are only going by TTH word on the matter", you're not familiar with the concept of clicking on links eh?
Also I would like to congratulate you guys too for playing your part in also trying to help to bring this game down, the bad publicity in itself that you guys keep wanting to continue on will not help one bit.
I'm sort of glad you got banned from sgw website lol
I just think you trying to be the VOICE on here and thinking its your right to run CME to the ground as well as their problems that are non of our business is pathetic.
Sorry, but you can go try hanging that on someone else. It ain't gonna stick on me no matter how hard the revisionist historians like yourself and others try.
My support for SGW speaks for itself, and I'd still be supporting it if it wasn't for what I feel has been a revelation of a very shady element behind the developer. My asking questions and speaking out about the issue is what got me banned, so I'm happy I did as well.
It's you, and other like you, that should feel ashamed. You're letting some silly devotion to a game have you turn your backs to what's right. Some others are simply being self serving in that they've set up a little "project" that's closely tied to SGW, one different from this mmoguls at that, and they're just protecting their underhanded efforts.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
As I have told you a number of times already. That mmoguls isn't "officially" connected to SGW and CME (yet?) isn't being debated.
What is being discussed is that in every single bit of info in the presentations given for mmoguls, including those given by GW himself, that it being very closely tied, in fact it being dependant on being very closely tied, to SGW and CME is never left up for any doubt in people's minds even though they don't come out a directly say it.
They mention the game and the company often n the beginning of their presentations, but are still careful never to mention them when talking directly about the scheme so far.
What they do then is reference "a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and " company developing a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and even talk about how "commands" (now what other game do you know of that uses that term for guilds?) will be ripe recruiting grounds for mmoguls members.
You are of course going to believe what you're going to believe, but calling people idiots because you don't see what they see, or don't want to see what they see, is pretty questionable I'd say.
I have said in the past that I would like to see the game released but I have in no wat defended mmoguls or in fact gary whiting, it would be better if he just up and left as he started all this garbage. Mmoguls is still operating as a separate buisiness but the idiots out there can't see that.
As I have told you a number of times already. That mmoguls isn't "officially" connected to SGW and CME (yet?) isn't being debated.
What is being discussed is that in every single bit of info in the presentations given for mmoguls, including those given by GW himself, that it being very closely tied, in fact it being dependant on being very closely tied, to SGW and CME is never left up for any doubt in people's minds even though they don't come out a directly say it.
They mention the game and the company often n the beginning of their presentations, but are still careful never to mention them when talking directly about the scheme so far.
What they do then is reference "a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and " company developing a game based on a leading entertainment franchise" and even talk about how "commands" (now what other game do you know of that uses that term for guilds?) will be ripe recruiting grounds for mmoguls members.
You are of course going to believe what you're going to believe, but calling people idiots because you don't see what they see, or don't want to see what they see, is pretty questionable I'd say.
Yes I know but others do believe that, go on TTH and other forums you see it all the time. Even alot of people on here.
Just posting this vid Agricola posted in another thread as an example of what I was saying before. Despite them being careful in their presentations not to link CME and mmoguls "YET", this shows that people still walk away with no doubt in their minds that there will be an "official" connection soon.
There's also the sad comedy factor of the SGW fanboi "denial squad" rushing in and posting their either naive, or deliberately misleading, statements. Like this vid proves, these people pitching this mmoguls don't have to directly say anything, but they make sure there's no doubt in people's minds what companies are all going to be tied together eventually. The denial squad want everyone to think what? That GW and cronies are going to sue themselves? Because that's what it would amount to. It's been shown that all the documentation that can be found has the same person at the head of both companies. It's also been confirmed by people that say they are/were CME staff, and by people saying they're CME investors that were approached by CME to also buy into mmoguls.
Forgive the double post, but after several emails to me asking for some info, I thought it important to post some links for those wondering about these kinds of companies.
There's a good site here, with info and advice both how to spot the scams and get help after being involved in these schemes.
Another good site is this one.
There's also watchdog groups like this one, where one can report these "companies" and get resources and info.
Then there's the various sites like this one and this one that are geared toward helping the victims.
I've gotta feel sorry for poor saps that get sucked in like this guy, hoping to make a fortune especially during this economic crisis. It's just taking cash from the needy and desperate to fill Gary Whiting's pockets and fund his Kamaikazie business schemes.
I was also wondering when they expect to start selling SGW? I mean if you're paying 50 bucks a month and don't expect to cash in until SGW is released? I bet Gary is gonna recruit a load of these saps and just when SGW is launched he'll send MMOGULs into chapter 11 and make of with the swag!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
So you go out and drum up investors to the tune of @ $42 million (That's the rumoured investment that went into the start up), spend a few million on setting up a dev house and getting people working on a game, get a forum up and rook fans into showing what looks to be a following to anyone checking out things with investing in the game in mind. Or/and those checking things out deciding on whether or not to get involved with the the other scheme, which is your other quick money grab.
You don't really care if the game is ever released because the rest of the $42 million has already mysteriously "disappeared", and you have plenty of time to rook in more money through the other thing because you can say that the game is still being worked on.
In the end one could pocket 10's of millions out a completely failed development, and skip away whistling all the while. If you manage to walk the tightrope and the game is released, well all the better.
This site explains the "Get Gary Whiting rich quick or go broke tryin'" scheme click, just don't click the join up button! On another site this guy claims to have met Gary Whiting when he signed up,
"Last night, I met the Owner, Founder, and Chairman of the Board for Cheyenne (pronounced shy-anne) Mountain Entertainment, and by the end of the night I joined up with him and his amazing company in a strategic partnership. His name is Gary Whiting and he’s a genius."
and
"Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment and its subsidiaries is a multi-million dollar computer and video game software development company. Gary and his close associates have constructed an elite team of experienced developers, who have over 700 years of cumulative experience in the industry. Altogether, they are responsible for over ONE HUNDRED shipped game titles."
news to me!
He claims that Gary is also the founder of MMOGULs which seems to be true now. The explination of this MLM looks like a standard pyramid scheme to me, not sure why the official forums aren't aflame with this right now!
BTW MMOGULs claim SGW will launch in May, so if you're still interested in buying this and still believe it will launch in a playable condition and don't mind Guild leaders only taking you if you become a "silver member" in some scheme, now you know. Pity CME couldn't be bothered to tell the genuine fanbase, unless it's just another steaming pile that Gary is delivering!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
It really is a sad state of affairs when the fanbase has to dig to find information regarding the MLM.
Its even more depressing when you look into how MLM's are run, the terminolgy that is used to hype people up and suck them in. The only winners of this scheme will be the owners of mmoguls and no one else.
From the bits of reading I have done we can see they have listed 7 games, 6 completely unknowns and 1 known, and this has even been officially dropped in the SGW forums as no contract or agreement exists with them (fair enough mmoguls is only just a shop front).
What is scary in my opinion is all these people rushing there 250$ into a itzyourmall mlm and starting there own business, they find 100 people and convice them to be plat partners, thats 25,000$ of revenue they have generated for mmoguls, and they wont get a dime from that. YOUR 250$ is just for a business start up, you will only get money from your mall sales and the monthly fees paid by people you get signed up under you.
My fear is that people are under the assumption that all they need to do is sign up and the money will roll in, no it wont, there moto 'PAID TO PLAY' is misleading, you will need to do sales, and find more accounts to sign up (you dont get anything from that) and pay there monthly fee (this is were your % will come from).
I really wish I understood more about the law, and how a company can actually advetise and mislead people with false advertising and misleading comments. e.g. quoting the sales of GTA4 and wowing them with the sales numbers, on a game that was for a games console and not a pc.
I really hope someone can really dig into this and drag the truth out of this kicking and screaming.
Another sad aspect of it is how some fans following the Stargate Worlds development are still trying to treat this as someone else's problem, and just want people to shut up about it because they think it's affecting the devs and harming the game.
I say so what?
If this guy and any of his companies are going to stay connected to Stargate Worlds, then it should never make it out.
If it does, it's just going to drag the entire Stargate franchise through the mud. we all know how people's minds work, and as soon as the inevitable stories start coming out about people that get harmed by this scheme, most people won't take the time to disseminate the different companies.
They'll just go "Stargate = People trying to rip me off".
Itsyourmall is a store front, its actually itself been running for years plus so you guys know you don't need to go far to see gary owns itzyourmall as its mentioned on cheyenne mountain under his profile.