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Barack Obama signs order to shutdown Guantanamo Bay detention center.

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  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,359

    President Barry has issued five executive orders within two days of taking office. This unprecendented act is showing Barry's complete disregard for the legislative process. Executive orders should be used as a last resort - not a bypass of Congress and the entire legislative branch. Is this the change he promised? A quasi-dictatorship without the representation of the people? He is writing orders for his agenda. Where does it stop?

    For those staunch supporters, what do you think of this? Do you blindly follow him so that you feel he can now make decisions for you on what is and is not right in your life? Where do you draw the line?

    www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/executive_orders/

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,216

    luckily obama didnt close it earlier, or else these terrorists wouldnt have admitted they took part in 9/11 attacks in court.

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  • CopWatchCopWatch Member Posts: 134

    If you torture anyone long enough, they'll admit to anything.  Besides, those guys in GitMo were just farmers who got turned in by their neighbors for the reward money being offered by the coalition operations. 

    "Hey Mohammad, know any Osama supporters?  We've got gifts for you, just point someone out."

    That is litterally what happened.  The people in GitMo are literally just peasants who got caught up in a geo-political game.

     

     

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,216
    Originally posted by CopWatch
    That is litterally what happened.   
     



     

    really? Were you at "GitMo"? Did you meet these so called peasants? I get the feeling you are just saying what you would like to be true.

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  • CopWatchCopWatch Member Posts: 134

    Reporters were there.  The government admits its true.  People who can read know about this.  People who can't, don't.

     

     

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,216
    Originally posted by CopWatch


    Reporters were there.  The government admits its true.  People who can read know about this.  People who can't, don't.
     
     



     

    odd i must have missed all the news articles saying that its a prison for peasants and not terrorists. I cant read what i cant see.

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  • CopWatchCopWatch Member Posts: 134

    Touche.

     

     

  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Originally posted by Barrikor


     

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride

    I heard the people held in Guantanamo never recieved a fair trial.

    Truth to this? If so, I believe they should at least have one.

     

    Criminals have trials.

    Under the rules of civilized war, prisoners of war cannot be treated as criminals.

    There can be military "tribunals" if the need arises of course, but tribunals don't beat around the bush, don't trump up fake charges, and don't release people just because someone forgot to read the guy his rights. The people in charge of a tribunal know what it's like on the battlefield and know what can happen in the heat of the moment. Probably more "fair" than the joke we call the court system.



     

    Nuremberg......Jaochim Piper's execution for the Malmedy massacre, December, 1944.

    Those executed for war crimes are not criminals?

    Then what are they?

     

  • BigdavoBigdavo Member UncommonPosts: 1,863
    Originally posted by olddaddy

    Originally posted by Barrikor


     

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride

    I heard the people held in Guantanamo never recieved a fair trial.

    Truth to this? If so, I believe they should at least have one.

     

    Criminals have trials.

    Under the rules of civilized war, prisoners of war cannot be treated as criminals.

    There can be military "tribunals" if the need arises of course, but tribunals don't beat around the bush, don't trump up fake charges, and don't release people just because someone forgot to read the guy his rights. The people in charge of a tribunal know what it's like on the battlefield and know what can happen in the heat of the moment. Probably more "fair" than the joke we call the court system.



     

    Nuremberg......Jaochim Piper's execution for the Malmedy massacre, December, 1944.

    Those executed for war crimes are not criminals?

    Then what are they?

     



     

    Aren't POWs simply captured soldiers/fighters?

    O_o o_O

  • altairzqaltairzq Member Posts: 3,811

    Thank you Obama in the name of humanity and civilization.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457
    Originally posted by Dekron

    Originally posted by popinjay
    #2 is a "Captain Obvious" duh one... if you feed someone 4,200 calories a day, they will soon gain 20 pounds. All jails in the US have the same situation, this is not unique. And hello? It's prison food! Yummy... Inmates typically gain lots of weight after incareration due to restriction of movement and confinement all day. Silly fact. Its like saying "Fact: If you go out and sit in the sun for 4 hours, the average person will get a tan" lol.

    You're very incorrect on this "fact". Special meals to meet Islamic dietary standards were provided to all Muslim prisoners.



     

    They make them drink lots of water.

  • baffbaff Member Posts: 9,457
    Originally posted by Zindaihas

    Originally posted by Wolfenpride


    I heard the people held in Guantanamo never recieved a fair trial.
    Truth to this? If so, I believe they should at least have one.



     

    Fair trial?  These are not criminals, they are war prisoners.  They are also not US citizens, and therefore, not entitled to due process under the US Constitution.



     

    Is this how you would like other countries to treat U.S. citizens too?

    What goes around, comes around. No one is exempt.

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Zindaihas
    Hey Jack Murtha has offered to take the detainees into his district.  What'ya say Western Pennsylvania, you ready to accept scores of terrorists into your neighborhoods?  Maybe you can outfit them with ankle bracelets so they'll be easy to track down after they blow your buildings up.

    Actually, I live in PA fairly close to that district and don't have a problem with them bringing them all here. Know why?

    Plenty of apace and because I know the place will be the safest in the country. We ask for funds, we'd get it. So many eyes would be around here, wouldn't have to worry about jailbreaks. Besides, we already have plenty of prisons.

    I'd rather have them than all the goombas who moved out of New York/North Jersey and out to the Poconos since 9/11.

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Draenor
    /sigh
     
    The OP is obviously just an Obama fanboy with no real idea or clue about this stuff...and your four "refutations" of that list of Guantanomo facts were incredibly weak ...and I like how you only picked on four, if it's so easy to refute it like you said, why didn't you do it?  instead you provided us with a few "lol" comments and no real substance to back up why this prison was such a "hell hole" as it was put.
     
    Was Obama keeping his promise for change after electing more corrupt politicians to his cabinet in keeping with the status quo?  Oh yeah, that Secretary of Treasury nominee with over 40 thousand dollars in back taxes just SCREAMS change...and let's not forget Hillary, having another Clinton close to the presidency certainly says change to me!


    Reading comprehenison: Fail.

    1) It's not my job to prove it was a "hell hole", since I didn't say it was. In your zeal to be fairminded, you obviously got someone else's description mixed up with my description. My description is the list is laughably hilarious, its like a travel brochure lol.

    2) If you didn't think I refuted it, perphaps it was because I wasn't trying to "refute" it. I was giggling at it because it's a silly list, lol. Someone said "shoot it down", so I picked out the obviously silly and more funny parts of it and had fun. If you read further later, you'll see I said I did not dispute any facts. I just that the facts are comical given the type of inmates we are talking about, that that was some of his best reasons to keep the joint open, hehe.

    3)Obama.. politicians..status quo? Meh, sounds like another thread to me, and a mission statement for you, lol.

    It's too bad John McCain lost, he's a good American and ran a fantasticly fair and awe-inspiring campaign with an obviously overqualified and well thought out VP pick. If its any consolation, Obama has since allowed John McCain to enter the White House. Now when Obama speaks, McCain will actually have no choice but to look him dead in the eyes while he speaks. Oh, how the high and mighty have fallen.. tsk tsk.

    Don't worry, you'll probably get over it by his second term.

  • HazmalHazmal Member CommonPosts: 1,013
    Originally posted by popinjay


     
     


    Reading comprehenison: Fail.
    2) If you didn't think I refuted it, perphaps it was because I wasn't trying to "refute" it. I was giggling at it because it's a silly list, lol. Someone said "shoot it down", so I picked out the obviously silly and more funny parts of it and had fun. If you read further later, you'll see I said I did not dispute any facts. I just that the facts are comical given the type of inmates we are talking about, that that was some of his best reasons to keep the joint open, hehe.
     



     

    Actually I just called you on your claim that you could easily shoot them down.  You said you could, so I asked you to.  If you can't, that is fine, but you shouldn't act like everyone else is stupid because you couldn't back up the claim made earlier: 

    Originally posted by popinjay

     



    No offense Precursor, but that press release kit is full of stuff to shoot down. It looks like they struggled to make 10 things. Number 10 is simply LOLZ.

    So far, full of stuff only means 3 or 4 fairly silly bullet points.  There are still a few more.

     

    ------------------
    Originally posted by javac

    well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Hazmal

    No offense Precursor, but that press release kit is full of stuff to shoot down. It looks like they struggled to make 10 things. Number 10 is simply LOLZ.
    So far, full of stuff only means 3 or 4 fairly silly bullet points.  There are still a few more.



    I apologize. The list is 100% non-funny. It's completely serious and should be taken as such. /chuckle.

    I guess I'll just have to be content with from here on out, we won't have to worry about future Gitmo lists within a year. Troops there will actually start having to be redeployed to better places (Afghanistan, back in the states) and the world (and Amnesty International, hehe) will slowly view the US in a different way over the next eight years. I guess I won't have to use Bill Maher's "Exit Strategy" listnow lol.

    Knowing that Obama with the wave of a pen, undid the signature theme of Bush's policy bungles in less than 2 full days of taking office with more to come..... man, I'm pysched!


  • HazmalHazmal Member CommonPosts: 1,013

    I'll believe it all when I see it.  I have no vested interest in Gitmo.  Obama's success only benefits me since I live in the country too. 

    ------------------
    Originally posted by javac

    well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8

  • Man1acMan1ac Member Posts: 1,428
    Originally posted by Draenor


    /sigh
     
    The OP is obviously just an Obama fanboy with no real idea or clue about this stuff...and your four "refutations" of that list of Guantanomo facts were incredibly weak ...and I like how you only picked on four, if it's so easy to refute it like you said, why didn't you do it?  instead you provided us with a few "lol" comments and no real substance to back up why this prison was such a "hell hole" as it was put.
     
    Was Obama keeping his promise for change after electing more corrupt politicians to his cabinet in keeping with the status quo?  Oh yeah, that Secretary of Treasury nominee with over 40 thousand dollars in back taxes just SCREAMS change...and let's not forget Hillary, having another Clinton close to the presidency certainly says change to me!

    You're overreacting, The OP is clearly stating one simple thing US' new president has done. I don't think he was saying "LOOK!!! OBAMA HAS CLOSED GUANTANAMO BAY, HE'S THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER, SCREW LINCOLN!!!"

    Honestly, you should be ashamed of what you're saying. If this evidence is weak, then the evidence for invading Iraq is smaller then the size of an electron. But enough of an irrelevant analogy. In this moral world a prison which has even 'weak' evidence against it for some of the alleged inhumane torture, should be closed down let alone concrete evidence.

    We're all Geniuses. Most of us just don't know it.

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Hazmal
    I'll believe it all when I see it.  I have no vested interest in Gitmo.  Obama's success only benefits me since I live in the country too. 

    Yep, even if he does very little, it will still be leaps and bounds over the "buddy" president.

    I think he will make us all forget about "W" to an extent. His first 5 orders were a VERY good start, even most Republicans agree. Banning lobbyists for even ONE day from doing business around the White House is a HUGE change from the days when companies like Halliburton and Blackwater ran through those halls like little Amy Carter on roller skates.

    So I'm all for the guy. :)

  • devilisciousdeviliscious Member UncommonPosts: 4,359

    we should shut down all the prisons and just shoot them all... problem solved .  Just think of the money that would save ! They should have shot them instead of capture them in the first place, after they tortured them of course.

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    That bleeding heart liberal makes me sick.

    We're affording these individuals a helluva lot more due process than Al Qaeda ever afforded any of their victims whether they were Americans, Iraqis or Afghanis. That seems lost on the Obamaniacs but they're about to learn first hand that Muslim extremists don't play by the GC rules or any other but their own. Charisma is a poor substitute for leadership, Clinton proved that, Obama may just reinforce the point.

    image

  • HazmalHazmal Member CommonPosts: 1,013
    Originally posted by outfctrl


    That bleeding heart liberal makes me sick.
    We're affording these individuals a helluva lot more due process than Al Qaeda ever afforded any of their victims whether they were Americans, Iraqis or Afghanis. That seems lost on the Obamaniacs but they're about to learn first hand that Muslim extremists don't play by the GC rules or any other but their own. Charisma is a poor substitute for leadership, Clinton proved that, Obama may just reinforce the point.



     

    One could say that due process wasn't afforded to civilian casualties in the Iraq or Afganistan war when missiles were launched.  Who are the real terrorists to those people?  It all cuts both ways and arguing politics, like religion, never ends.  Hoping for the president to do poorly, which in-turn takes the country down with him to a certain degree, just to reinforce your point of view makes for a poor patriot in my opinion.

    ------------------
    Originally posted by javac

    well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,359
    Originally posted by Dekron


    President Barry has issued five executive orders within two days of taking office. This unprecendented act is showing Barry's complete disregard for the legislative process. Executive orders should be used as a last resort - not a bypass of Congress and the entire legislative branch. Is this the change he promised? A quasi-dictatorship without the representation of the people? He is writing orders for his agenda. Where does it stop?
    For those staunch supporters, what do you think of this? Do you blindly follow him so that you feel he can now make decisions for you on what is and is not right in your life? Where do you draw the line?
    www.whitehouse.gov/briefing_room/executive_orders/

    Yes, I am quoting my own post for emphasis.

    And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.

    Great change you voters have brought to this nation.

    news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090123/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_abortion_ban

     

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Dekron

    Yes, I am quoting my own post for emphasis.
    And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.
    Great change you voters have brought to this nation.



    Yes, we noticed you think highly of yourself^^

    Honestly, I don't care about abortions. I am a male, I can't give birth to children. So what do I care that a woman who I do not know does with her boday anymore than someone does piercings or can announce a war whenever they want. A cop can go flying through a redlight and T-bone someone, but as long as he has lights on, that's cool.

    There are lots of crazy things in the world. I don't wanna have to worry about one more that has nothing to do with me, tbh. This is something for people with more time on their hands too worry about lol.

    I don't care if gays are in the military either. That stuff is all way too silly to be wasting time on. People need to get a grip and fix their own houses first. Usually the ones who scream the loudest about abortions are the ones the most screwed up in the first place, like that sodomy preacher going to the mens' rooms in Colorado, or Jim Bakker, or Oral Roberts, or Jimmy Swaggart, or.. well you get the picture, lol.

    I hope Obama reverses quite a few things that got screwed up these last eight years. Lord knows he has plenty of work to do on that front.

  • DekronDekron Member UncommonPosts: 7,359
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by Dekron
     
    Yes, I am quoting my own post for emphasis.

    And number six. Six executive orders bypassing legislature now in three days. This one is overturning the federal ban on abortions, including the Mexico City policy. This means not only are our tax dollars going to fund abortions here at home, but also abroad.

    Great change you voters have brought to this nation.

     



    Yes, we noticed you think highly of yourself^^

    Honestly, I don't care about abortions. I am a male, I can't give birth to children. So what do I care that a woman who I do not know does with her boday anymore than someone does piercings or can announce a war whenever they want. A cop can go flying through a redlight and T-bone someone, but as long as he has lights on, that's cool.

    Yes, I am thinking quite high of myself because I quoted my post to emphasize my point.

    You are exactly the type of person who this administration is hoping for. You are ignorant to understand the issue at hand. And, I mean no offense by the ignorant comment. I mean it as simply a statement regarding the fact you are with a complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter.

    The point was not with regards to abortion. It was regards to an executive order bypassing legislation.

    You see, to keep it simple, we have three branches of government - executive, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch passes the laws. Good ol' Barry simply bypassed this step by signing an executive order thereby bypassing elected representatives of the people to vote upon the proposed law/bill. He is, in effect, passing laws without legislative debate and votes - he is using executive orders for his agenda.

    Now I will address your comment "can announce a war whenever they want". To make it quick and easily understandable - the President cannot declare war - only Congress can. Congress, including your democrats, voted and passed the declaration of war against Iraq, not President Bush.

    As for your cop comment, I fail to see your point. Please expand your explanation.

     

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