Your Tabula Rasa argument is irrelevant because it was NCsoft Korea that decided to shut down Tabula Rasa, thus by korean standards TR was a failure as well.
Every 2 years? That's rich.
NCsoft:
Lineage 1 release: 1998
Lineage 2 release: 2003
Lineage 3 release: TBA, scheduled to be unveiled in 2010.
Gravity:
Ragnarok Online release date: 2001
Ragnarok Online 2 release date: TBA
Joymax:
Silkroad Online release date: 2005
Silkroad Online 2 schedules release date: 2010 Just a few examples. 1 - 2 people? Thats hilarious, korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up.
You obviously don't know the whole picture here. Every 2 years is actually quite correct. You only look at Ragnarok Online and does not list what else Gravity has. How about ECO? Requiem? But why did you only look at certain companies and their follow up? How about other like Prius, 12sky2, Aika, dho ... and countless other MMOs, they were developed in an incredibly short development cycle. Korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up? Joymax has less than 100 people total.
I do know the whole picture you but unlike most people I'm not as ignorant to claim the entire market works that way. Requiem was released in Sk 2007, 4 years after Ragnarok Online. thats not two years.
There are also western mmorpg who release games in 2 shot timespans.
Turbine:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: 2006
Lord of the Rings Online: 2007
SOE:
The Agency: set for 2009/10
DC Universe Online: Set for 2009/10
Mythic/EA:
Ultima Online: Kindom Reborn - 2007
Warhammer Online - 2008
About multiple floors, I quote from the first issue of RF Online issue where the publishing of RF Online is described:
"A lot of these companies are doing very well and occupy multiple floors in huge towers. "I guess in the west you don't find many developers occupying six floors of a skyscrapper, or filling warehouses with copies of their games"
Err, you have to look when they start the project and when they released it. Lord of the Rings Online development started long long before 2006. Warhammer Online had a shorter than usual development cycle and it still took them more than 3 years. Requiem was developed long long time after Ragnarok Online and it did not take 4 years only about 2 years. AION also have a development cycle of less than 3 years. Silkroad Online was developed in 2 years. There are so many Korean MMOs (well known if that counted) that go from scratch to finish within 2 years.
If you look at the norm than the development cycle of a western MMO usually take 4 years on average and Korean MMO usually take 2 years on average.
Post evidence behind your claims. It's about time you start presenting facts to back up your argument.
It stated the game still in early stage of development. It proves that the game was developed earlier in 2003. From the quality of screenshots which show battles, monsters and avatars proves that the game was pass prototype stage of development which could give you several months in development already. What does it tell you? It say D&D Online has to have about 3 years if not more of development time.
Vivendi annouced about the development of Lord of the Rings Online by Turbine in 2003 at that time aim at 2004 release date. What does that tell you? It tell you that they have started the development before that annoucement otherwise they cannot expect to release in 2004 if they only start development in 2003. Finally Lord of the Rings Online was released in 2007. That's what? at least 4 years in development.
Mid 2006, NCSoft annouced the development of AION which I could say give them the whole 2006. The game released Nov 2008. That's less than 3 years.
According to Joymax Silkroad Project started very late 2002. It went commercial early 2005. That's 2 years development.
Your Tabula Rasa argument is irrelevant because it was NCsoft Korea that decided to shut down Tabula Rasa, thus by korean standards TR was a failure as well.
Which is why they are looking at bringing it back under a Eastern Model?
Look at Hellgate London, this was a clear failure by the western model, yet is being brought back under the eastern model.
NCsoft Korea is more bottom line then any other MMO developer. Also Tabula Rasa wasted so much money there's no way in hell they could have made it back even if it went F2P with micro transactions and all that. So they cut it loose. They did it to Auto Assault, they cut loose unnanounced projects too. They bit more then they could chew.
Your Tabula Rasa argument is irrelevant because it was NCsoft Korea that decided to shut down Tabula Rasa, thus by korean standards TR was a failure as well.
Every 2 years? That's rich.
NCsoft:
Lineage 1 release: 1998
Lineage 2 release: 2003
Lineage 3 release: TBA, scheduled to be unveiled in 2010.
Gravity:
Ragnarok Online release date: 2001
Ragnarok Online 2 release date: TBA
Joymax:
Silkroad Online release date: 2005
Silkroad Online 2 schedules release date: 2010 Just a few examples. 1 - 2 people? Thats hilarious, korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up.
You obviously don't know the whole picture here. Every 2 years is actually quite correct. You only look at Ragnarok Online and does not list what else Gravity has. How about ECO? Requiem? But why did you only look at certain companies and their follow up? How about other like Prius, 12sky2, Aika, dho ... and countless other MMOs, they were developed in an incredibly short development cycle. Korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up? Joymax has less than 100 people total.
I do know the whole picture you but unlike most people I'm not as ignorant to claim the entire market works that way. Requiem was released in Sk 2007, 4 years after Ragnarok Online. thats not two years.
There are also western mmorpg who release games in 2 shot timespans.
Turbine:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: 2006
Lord of the Rings Online: 2007
SOE:
The Agency: set for 2009/10
DC Universe Online: Set for 2009/10
Mythic/EA:
Ultima Online: Kindom Reborn - 2007
Warhammer Online - 2008
About multiple floors, I quote from the first issue of RF Online issue where the publishing of RF Online is described:
"A lot of these companies are doing very well and occupy multiple floors in huge towers. "I guess in the west you don't find many developers occupying six floors of a skyscrapper, or filling warehouses with copies of their games"
Err, you have to look when they start the project and when they released it. Lord of the Rings Online development started long long before 2006. Warhammer Online had a shorter than usual development cycle and it still took them more than 3 years. Requiem was developed long long time after Ragnarok Online and it did not take 4 years only about 2 years. AION also have a development cycle of less than 3 years. Silkroad Online was developed in 2 years. There are so many Korean MMOs (well known if that counted) that go from scratch to finish within 2 years.
If you look at the norm than the development cycle of a western MMO usually take 4 years on average and Korean MMO usually take 2 years on average.
Post evidence behind your claims. It's about time you start presenting facts to back up your argument.
It stated the game still in early stage of development. It proves that the game was developed earlier in 2003. From the quality of screenshots which show battles, monsters and avatars proves that the game was pass prototype stage of development which could give you several months in development already. What does it tell you? It say D&D Online has to have about 3 years if not more of development time.
Vivendi annouced about the development of Lord of the Rings Online by Turbine in 2003 at that time aim at 2004 release date. What does that tell you? It tell you that they have started the development before that annoucement otherwise they cannot expect to release in 2004 if they only start development in 2003. Finally Lord of the Rings Online was released in 2007. That's what? at least 4 years in development.
Mid 2006, NCSoft annouced the development of AION which I could say give them the whole 2006. The game released Nov 2008. That's less than 3 years.
According to Joymax Silkroad Project started very late 2002. It went commercial early 2005. That's 2 years development.
You're not providing evidence, only assumptions. You have no idea how long they were in development at that time. The article was written in 14th of august 2003 While The game was released in fabruary 2006. so a little less than 2 and half years.
You're right about Lotro though, although it's very obvious Lotro's concept has been overhauled at one point as it's clearly inspired by World of Warcraft.
Ncsoft's Aion had such a short development time because Aion uses the Crytek engine, where as Turbine had to entirely update their old Asherons Call engine.
I also like to see evidence joymax started development very late in 2002.
In the end, your argument is irrelevant and flawed right from the start. Why? Because development time means absolutely nothing. It's completely flawed to say company A puts more effort in a product because the development time is longer. If a company A has a bigger studio than company B, ofcourse they can do more work.
if Turbine has to split its studio to work on D&DO and Lotro, ofcourse they are going to take longer than a project such as Aion which is being worked on by NCsoft Seoul.
Then there is the time spend when development is done. Then there is the time spend to actually publish the game.
I think the biggest problem with the reputation of korean mmorpg's is simply that a lot of people are unaware of the existance of high quality korean mmorpg's.
The vast majority of korean mmorpg's avaible here are all first and 2nd generation korean mmorpg's. they are all either old and outdated or were developed with a small budget.
I've tried many Korean games, and up to now I haven't liked any of them or stuck with them longer that a couple of hours. They all seem basically the same, boring old skill systems and grinds. Knight Online was the first one, some years back, and all the rest haven't been any improvement at all. I look forward to seeing something a bit more up to date and - please, for the love of god - INNOVATIVE.
Those FTP Korean cash shop games that they bring over here 5-8 years afther they are released in Korea are not good at all. I have always wondered why no PTP games other than Lineage 2 are released here. I am hoping that games like Blade & Soul and Terra make it here because those look like the PTP type of games that are polished, not like those Korean cash shop games.
For comparison purposes, anyone know what the failure rate among eastern MMOs is?
90%, same goes with the western titles.
To put it bluntly, 90% of the MMORPGs suck, wether they are asian or made in alabama. That's why I never label a game that looks good as a failure just because it's made in "X", because if so, every single game that looks good would automaticaly be a failure for me. How sad would that be?
For comparison purposes, anyone know what the failure rate among eastern MMOs is?
90%, same goes with the western titles.
To put it bluntly, 90% of the MMORPGs suck, wether they are asian or made in alabama. That's why I never label a game that looks good as a failure just because it's made in "X", because if so, every single game that looks good would automaticaly be a failure for me. How sad would that be?
By failure rate he means games which aren't successfull, which is nowhere near 90% for either the west or the east.
Comments
You obviously don't know the whole picture here. Every 2 years is actually quite correct. You only look at Ragnarok Online and does not list what else Gravity has. How about ECO? Requiem? But why did you only look at certain companies and their follow up? How about other like Prius, 12sky2, Aika, dho ... and countless other MMOs, they were developed in an incredibly short development cycle. Korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up? Joymax has less than 100 people total.
I do know the whole picture you but unlike most people I'm not as ignorant to claim the entire market works that way. Requiem was released in Sk 2007, 4 years after Ragnarok Online. thats not two years.
There are also western mmorpg who release games in 2 shot timespans.
Turbine:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: 2006
Lord of the Rings Online: 2007
SOE:
The Agency: set for 2009/10
DC Universe Online: Set for 2009/10
Mythic/EA:
Ultima Online: Kindom Reborn - 2007
Warhammer Online - 2008
About multiple floors, I quote from the first issue of RF Online issue where the publishing of RF Online is described:
"A lot of these companies are doing very well and occupy multiple floors in huge towers. "I guess in the west you don't find many developers occupying six floors of a skyscrapper, or filling warehouses with copies of their games"
Err, you have to look when they start the project and when they released it. Lord of the Rings Online development started long long before 2006. Warhammer Online had a shorter than usual development cycle and it still took them more than 3 years. Requiem was developed long long time after Ragnarok Online and it did not take 4 years only about 2 years. AION also have a development cycle of less than 3 years. Silkroad Online was developed in 2 years. There are so many Korean MMOs (well known if that counted) that go from scratch to finish within 2 years.
If you look at the norm than the development cycle of a western MMO usually take 4 years on average and Korean MMO usually take 2 years on average.
Post evidence behind your claims. It's about time you start presenting facts to back up your argument.
Here, I'll give you one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_Online
"Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach was developed by Turbine, Inc. over the course of approximately two years of development."
Turbine gained the rights for Lord of the rings online in 2005, the game was released in 2007.
That information is inaccurate. Here is a link to an article from GameBanshee dated 8/2003 with screenshots.
www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/dndonline.php
It stated the game still in early stage of development. It proves that the game was developed earlier in 2003. From the quality of screenshots which show battles, monsters and avatars proves that the game was pass prototype stage of development which could give you several months in development already. What does it tell you? It say D&D Online has to have about 3 years if not more of development time.
Vivendi annouced about the development of Lord of the Rings Online by Turbine in 2003 at that time aim at 2004 release date. What does that tell you? It tell you that they have started the development before that annoucement otherwise they cannot expect to release in 2004 if they only start development in 2003. Finally Lord of the Rings Online was released in 2007. That's what? at least 4 years in development.
Mid 2006, NCSoft annouced the development of AION which I could say give them the whole 2006. The game released Nov 2008. That's less than 3 years.
According to Joymax Silkroad Project started very late 2002. It went commercial early 2005. That's 2 years development.
Which is why they are looking at bringing it back under a Eastern Model?
Look at Hellgate London, this was a clear failure by the western model, yet is being brought back under the eastern model.
NCsoft Korea is more bottom line then any other MMO developer. Also Tabula Rasa wasted so much money there's no way in hell they could have made it back even if it went F2P with micro transactions and all that. So they cut it loose. They did it to Auto Assault, they cut loose unnanounced projects too. They bit more then they could chew.
Not exactly an examplar company to point out.
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
You obviously don't know the whole picture here. Every 2 years is actually quite correct. You only look at Ragnarok Online and does not list what else Gravity has. How about ECO? Requiem? But why did you only look at certain companies and their follow up? How about other like Prius, 12sky2, Aika, dho ... and countless other MMOs, they were developed in an incredibly short development cycle. Korean development studios often take up multiple floors of towards up? Joymax has less than 100 people total.
I do know the whole picture you but unlike most people I'm not as ignorant to claim the entire market works that way. Requiem was released in Sk 2007, 4 years after Ragnarok Online. thats not two years.
There are also western mmorpg who release games in 2 shot timespans.
Turbine:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: 2006
Lord of the Rings Online: 2007
SOE:
The Agency: set for 2009/10
DC Universe Online: Set for 2009/10
Mythic/EA:
Ultima Online: Kindom Reborn - 2007
Warhammer Online - 2008
About multiple floors, I quote from the first issue of RF Online issue where the publishing of RF Online is described:
"A lot of these companies are doing very well and occupy multiple floors in huge towers. "I guess in the west you don't find many developers occupying six floors of a skyscrapper, or filling warehouses with copies of their games"
Err, you have to look when they start the project and when they released it. Lord of the Rings Online development started long long before 2006. Warhammer Online had a shorter than usual development cycle and it still took them more than 3 years. Requiem was developed long long time after Ragnarok Online and it did not take 4 years only about 2 years. AION also have a development cycle of less than 3 years. Silkroad Online was developed in 2 years. There are so many Korean MMOs (well known if that counted) that go from scratch to finish within 2 years.
If you look at the norm than the development cycle of a western MMO usually take 4 years on average and Korean MMO usually take 2 years on average.
Post evidence behind your claims. It's about time you start presenting facts to back up your argument.
Here, I'll give you one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons_Online
"Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach was developed by Turbine, Inc. over the course of approximately two years of development."
Turbine gained the rights for Lord of the rings online in 2005, the game was released in 2007.
That information is inaccurate. Here is a link to an article from GameBanshee dated 8/2003 with screenshots.
www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/dndonline.php
It stated the game still in early stage of development. It proves that the game was developed earlier in 2003. From the quality of screenshots which show battles, monsters and avatars proves that the game was pass prototype stage of development which could give you several months in development already. What does it tell you? It say D&D Online has to have about 3 years if not more of development time.
Vivendi annouced about the development of Lord of the Rings Online by Turbine in 2003 at that time aim at 2004 release date. What does that tell you? It tell you that they have started the development before that annoucement otherwise they cannot expect to release in 2004 if they only start development in 2003. Finally Lord of the Rings Online was released in 2007. That's what? at least 4 years in development.
Mid 2006, NCSoft annouced the development of AION which I could say give them the whole 2006. The game released Nov 2008. That's less than 3 years.
According to Joymax Silkroad Project started very late 2002. It went commercial early 2005. That's 2 years development.
You're not providing evidence, only assumptions. You have no idea how long they were in development at that time. The article was written in 14th of august 2003 While The game was released in fabruary 2006. so a little less than 2 and half years.
You're right about Lotro though, although it's very obvious Lotro's concept has been overhauled at one point as it's clearly inspired by World of Warcraft.
Ncsoft's Aion had such a short development time because Aion uses the Crytek engine, where as Turbine had to entirely update their old Asherons Call engine.
I also like to see evidence joymax started development very late in 2002.
In the end, your argument is irrelevant and flawed right from the start. Why? Because development time means absolutely nothing. It's completely flawed to say company A puts more effort in a product because the development time is longer. If a company A has a bigger studio than company B, ofcourse they can do more work.
if Turbine has to split its studio to work on D&DO and Lotro, ofcourse they are going to take longer than a project such as Aion which is being worked on by NCsoft Seoul.
Then there is the time spend when development is done. Then there is the time spend to actually publish the game.
Developing a game and an engine are 2 different things.
Aion also started closed beta in mid 07...I think your 2 years is an underestimation.
I've tried many Korean games, and up to now I haven't liked any of them or stuck with them longer that a couple of hours. They all seem basically the same, boring old skill systems and grinds. Knight Online was the first one, some years back, and all the rest haven't been any improvement at all. I look forward to seeing something a bit more up to date and - please, for the love of god - INNOVATIVE.
That goes for western mmorpgs, too.
Those FTP Korean cash shop games that they bring over here 5-8 years afther they are released in Korea are not good at all. I have always wondered why no PTP games other than Lineage 2 are released here. I am hoping that games like Blade & Soul and Terra make it here because those look like the PTP type of games that are polished, not like those Korean cash shop games.
90%, same goes with the western titles.
To put it bluntly, 90% of the MMORPGs suck, wether they are asian or made in alabama. That's why I never label a game that looks good as a failure just because it's made in "X", because if so, every single game that looks good would automaticaly be a failure for me. How sad would that be?
90%, same goes with the western titles.
To put it bluntly, 90% of the MMORPGs suck, wether they are asian or made in alabama. That's why I never label a game that looks good as a failure just because it's made in "X", because if so, every single game that looks good would automaticaly be a failure for me. How sad would that be?
By failure rate he means games which aren't successfull, which is nowhere near 90% for either the west or the east.