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CME being sued!
Agricola1
Member UncommonPosts: 4,977
I got this link in the rumour room from Zhiroc click. For those that don't want to search the listings,
Case number: CV08-54942
Plaintiff: Kinetik I.T. Inc.
Defendant: Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment Inc.
Nature of complaint: Unpaid debt.
Attorney for plaintiff: Jonathan B. Frutkin.
It seems CME is being sued by a web design company for non-payment of work done. Along with Brad Wright now stating that CME is in trouble, staff stating there's layoffs and non-payment of wages, alongside MMOGULS claiming Gary Whiting is speaking at thier conferences selling SGW in one of thier pyramid/MLM schemes and CMEs own addmission of a cash flow crisis and the need for new investors. All together this tells me that CME is galloping down diarrhea drive without a saddle!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Comments
Seems more and more clear evidence of woes there come out everyday.
If they are in fact rushing the game out hoping to stay afloat, it'll be a disaster. The mere handful of hangers on at their forums that would pay for a game in a unfinished state isn't going to make them enough to pay their debts I imagine.
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
i hope the developers can make it through all of this and deliver the game because it looks pretty promising
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
The thing is you still show that you basically hate it so much you want it to fail, if I felt the same way in alot of replies I would just go and forget about it and let it run its own course. Look at Age of conan, all the doomsayers basically doomed it before launch and its still running and making them money and maybe not as much as they liked but still going.
I actually hope they prove people like you wrong in the end. I'm starting to wonder blakey if your a wow player by chance lol
What do you actually class as an mmo vet?? I myself have been playing mmo's for years and not just garbage like wow. I've played TR, lotro, everquest, guildwars, D&D online, age of conan, wow, crapgate london and also closed betas.
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
The thing is you still show that you basically hate it so much you want it to fail, if I felt the same way in alot of replies I would just go and forget about it and let it run its own course. Look at Age of conan, all the doomsayers basically doomed it before launch and its still running and making them money and maybe not as much as they liked but still going.
I actually hope they prove people like you wrong in the end. I'm starting to wonder blakey if your a wow player by chance lol
I think I'd accept an easily verified court case over what tkksnow or the devs may say to ignore.
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
The thing is you still show that you basically hate it so much you want it to fail, if I felt the same way in alot of replies I would just go and forget about it and let it run its own course. Look at Age of conan, all the doomsayers basically doomed it before launch and its still running and making them money and maybe not as much as they liked but still going.
I actually hope they prove people like you wrong in the end. I'm starting to wonder blakey if your a wow player by chance lol
I think I'd accept an easily verified court case over what tkksnow or the devs may say to ignore.
Yes the court case, I've seen the info on that but the fact is other info you can not take as fact as its from outside of CME and any normal person should be able to comprehend that right???
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
The thing is you still show that you basically hate it so much you want it to fail, if I felt the same way in alot of replies I would just go and forget about it and let it run its own course. Look at Age of conan, all the doomsayers basically doomed it before launch and its still running and making them money and maybe not as much as they liked but still going.
I actually hope they prove people like you wrong in the end. I'm starting to wonder blakey if your a wow player by chance lol
I think I'd accept an easily verified court case over what tkksnow or the devs may say to ignore.
Yes the court case, I've seen the info on that but the fact is other info you can not take as fact as its from outside of CME and any normal person should be able to comprehend that right???
Well, let's consider the mmoguls thing. If I can go to a presentation and see the guy linking SGW, mmoguls, and MLM all together, then I can believe that outside source over CME denying involvement. It becomes even more believable when CME doesn't stop him when they know very well what he's doing.
It's an old saying, but it applies: actions speak louder than words.
As much as I have been gungho about wanting to see a SGW mmo, I am having to agree with the above posters. It is looking like some bad decisions were being made at the top at CME, and unfortunately the little guys are being hung out to dry. By the little guys, I mean the actual devs (not the talking heads) and the potential fans. The devs are out of jobs and/ or paychecks- and everyone is out what could have been a great game. Being in the business, I have no patience for bean counting pressure-cookers making decisions that affect the people who really care about the projects. I hope there is a quick change of management at CME with the new income (if they can find it). I even more sincerely hope that it is someone that knows what they are doing. The industry could use that kind of leadership nowadays.
-----------------------
Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
I suggest you guys need to read this
http://forums.stargateworlds.com/showpost.php?p=582003&postcount=57
In what tkksnow said he makes a very valid point about not listening to people outside of CME which some people like blakey fail to do.
tkksnow - Unless comments or statements from from the developers, please do not take them as official gospel or from anyone that can speak on it authoritatively.
Since many mmo vets have seen pretty much the exact same thing said by CMs in different games just before they were cancelled, in a couple of cases just hours before, I'm afraid that post will be meaningless to many.
The thing is you still show that you basically hate it so much you want it to fail, if I felt the same way in alot of replies I would just go and forget about it and let it run its own course. Look at Age of conan, all the doomsayers basically doomed it before launch and its still running and making them money and maybe not as much as they liked but still going.
I actually hope they prove people like you wrong in the end. I'm starting to wonder blakey if your a wow player by chance lol
I think I'd accept an easily verified court case over what tkksnow or the devs may say to ignore.
Yes the court case, I've seen the info on that but the fact is other info you can not take as fact as its from outside of CME and any normal person should be able to comprehend that right???
Well, let's consider the mmoguls thing. If I can go to a presentation and see the guy linking SGW, mmoguls, and MLM all together, then I can believe that outside source over CME denying involvement. It becomes even more believable when CME doesn't stop him when they know very well what he's doing.
It's an old saying, but it applies: actions speak louder than words.
well zorvan if you read the other posts on here about cme anf mmoguls you'll know we already agree that gary whiting is a part of both businesses, now mmoguls its self is run as a standalone business separate from CME and I had that in a email message I got from the head of mmoguls the other day after I contacted them.
Have you never seen these companies play shell games like this before? I don't just mean MLM companies either, but all companies do it. When they say what the have to say, but do it in a way so anyone can plainly see what they really want to say and mean? Have you ever thought that someone might be dancing around legalities until they don't have to anymore?
Have you never seen these companies play shell games like this before? I don't just mean MLM companies either, but all companies do it. When they say what the have to say, but do it in a way so anyone can plainly see what they really want to say and mean? Have you ever thought that someone might be dancing around legalities until they don't have to anymore?
But then again now you are thinking you are correct on this but clearly none of us have a full idea on whats going on, if you think you do then you are only fooling yourself in the end.
Developer being sued by a web-based company for unpaid services... TAKE 2!
Reminds me of the Perpetual Entertainment (developer for Star Trek Online) lawsuit by Kohnke (advertising company), in which PE had not paid Kohnke for its services.
And we all know how that turned out.
I think to keep SGW afloat would be to release the game early, BUT knowing that there are faults and a possible poor launch, some adjustments would be needed. For example, reduce the scale of the game, drop certain features and with it all, reduce the cost to the customers. Sure, not a lot of people will sign up, the turn out will be lower than expected, but at least there will be some revenue being generated. Hopefully enough to keep things afloat and maybe, just enough to continue development. Kind of think of it as, charging people to Beta Test, but at a low price. Not everyone will go for this, but there will be some that will.
And having something is better than having nothing with bankruptcy (and to compound it, none of the game's virtual assets can be sold since they are licensed).
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I still say the best thing for it would be for MGM to step in and say to CME you can either sell it to one of the bigger development companies/publishers and recoup some of the investors money, or we're pulling the licence to avoid having the good name of the IP sullied because of the other businesses you're planning on tying into the game soon.
I agree and disagree.
I agree that this is probably the only option left unless the MMOGULs scheme pulls in the cash Gary Whiting needs to finish SGW.
I disagree as the sales would be poor, largley due to CMEs poor handling of thier website in allowing a handfull of crazies to run the community and even promote them to become mods and staff. Leaving most potential customers that go there alienated by CME and its potential playerbase. This includes myself and all my friends that play MMORPGs. Most decided not to play before all these scandals due to reading the forums and having a bad feeling about CME and thier handling of the game.
CME have let a few crazies run rampant and lost a large amount of potential revenue, releasing the game fully finished would be a struggle to make back money in my opinion. Unfinished would send CME into chapter 11, CME have made thier own bed and must now lay in it. I'm only waiting for JG:E and would no longer touch any CME product with a barge pole!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Well you make a very valid point Agricola1. Seeing mods insulting and taunting community members, and generally acting like teenagers in some clique at a high school doesn't make it a very welcoming place, nor bode well for what the in-game community will be like if the game ever gets released.
There was some hope with talk of changes being made from the community manager, but all that's been done is the worst mods have been given even more responsibility.
Like I said, I think it's something MGM needs to put the hammer down on. Clearly nothing is going to get fixed under the current regime, and the Stargate IP is going to be dragged through the mud if MGM lets them continue. The best thing is for MGM to let them try and sell what they have done and a different company that knows whet they're doing to come in and clean house on the community side and fix the game. That's the only way anyone's ever going to get a decent Stargate based MMO to play in my opinion.
It would seem that they're involved in a few court cases.
Here's yet another one
Can there be any doubt left that CME is bust?
Gary Whiting and his wife (not sure if it's is wife though just guessing) are served and then 3 days later the same property company serves CME. This company rents out office space as well as homes. This tells me that maybe CME hasn't paid the rent alongside the employees wages!
Also Gary and Vikki either were co-signers for the rent or have defaulted on rent to other properties. Man everyday I feel like I've walked through the dimensional jump mirror into a bad parallel universe!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Can there be any doubt left that CME is bust?
Gary Whiting and his wife (not sure if it's is wife though just guessing) are served and then 3 days later the same property company serves CME. This company rents out office space as well as homes. This tells me that maybe CME hasn't paid the rent alongside the employees wages!
Also Gary and Vikki either were co-signers for the rent or have defaulted on rent to other properties. Man everyday I feel like I've walked through the dimensional jump mirror into a bad parallel universe!
Did you fail to read where it also says
NOTE: PAID
No, they agreed to pay 6 weeks and a court appearance later. It doesn't bode well for any company that has been to court atleast two times that we know of in the same period.
When CME said they were having the same cash flow problems all start up companys have I believe they were exaggerating. All start up companies don't have to layoff staff, spend time defending themselves in court and then start scams to raise cash to stay afloat!
But if you think this isn't a big deal and to be expected maybe you'd like to but into this great "Multi Level Mothership get rich or go shit broke tryin'" scheme that Gary Whiting is selling involving SGW? Come on baby! You'll be livin' large in Hawaii soon getting blown by 10 hula girls on a beach sipping Harvey headbangers!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Ya, that doesn't mean what the unpaid spin doctor thinks it does.
...annnnnd here's yet another one.
CCP had the same issues back when EVE-ONLINE came out. Well, no law suit if I remember but the devs were not getting paid for months... they were all just trying to survive and making it. Today, I must say CCP is the next "ID software"/"Epic Megagames" in MMORPGS... They started small, had issues and eventually made it to the very top.
As a little fan boy, I hope that's the case for CME !
If not... well damn, I am looking forward for Stargate.
This just seems to be snowballing, I get the feeling that CME should base a quest on that SG-1 episode where that kid went to a court with a Goa'uld and SG-1 to have the sybiote removed. All of thier experience in legal matters should make it a great repeatable quest to save your neck!
This is the case Zhiroc found and Blakey linked click and the text about CME in their brochure,
"This project, known as
Chandler Freeway Crossing, is nearing
completion of two buildings at 41,000
SF each and will be the new home to
Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment, an
exciting gaming softwase design company.
Mark IV, which is beginning plans for
the next phase or this nine building project,
has focused significant amounts of
attention on the employee "friendliness"
of this park."
I guess the employee friendliness of the park towards CME employees (those left) would be a lake with a rocky shore and vines so that when they're laid off with 6 months wages owed, sued and their entire family hates them because the MLM scheme Gary Whiting got them all into was a scam. They have a close and convenient location where they can use a vine to tie a rock to their body and jump in the lake!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
The difference is CCP were a small group of friends and had raised much of there own capital through other projects. Also CME has,
1: Bought an IP which means they can't afford a publisher (firesky is a company setup by CME to distribute SGW)
2: Owes about $40 million.
3: Is being sued in court as we speak in multiple cases by multiple plantiffs.
4: Founder of CME is running an MLM (a pyramid scheme with an earnings cap to you and me) from the same building as CME and is using CME staff to recruit saps and planning on coercing command (guild) leaders into expanding the scheme.
5: CME owes wages to employees, CCP was a bunch of friends pulling together for the greater good.
6: Brad Wright (co founder of SG-1 and all things stargate, and writer and everything) has stated CME is in trouble.
Compared to CME CCP had a pretty smooth ride!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis