So im still waiting to hear what apparently should or have been done if not the stimulus package. If you know how to fix the economy, im all ears honestly.
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
Originally posted by Wolfenpride Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Son, I say son, it would take me too much time to explain, and you wouldn't understand it anyway.
Just give me $11 trillion with, say a couple a days head start, no checks and balances, nobody looking over my shoulder, or slowing me down, and I'll fix it for ya!
Originally posted by Wolfenpride Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Son, I say son, it would take me too much time to explain, and you wouldn't understand it anyway.
Just give me $11 trillion with, say a couple a days head start, no checks and balances, nobody looking over my shoulder, or slowing me down, and I'll fix it for ya!
So im still waiting to hear what apparently should or have been done if not the stimulus package. If you know how to fix the economy, im all ears honestly.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
It wouldn't. Ask any third world country which by default, uses "anything goes" for an economic system. the system always inevitably pools money into a small percentage of the population(those in power), and since no one else can afford goods and services, the economy collapses. We're experiencing a mini-version of that right now ourselves, which was delayed for a time by unprecedented borrowing.
WIthout social safety nets(like bankruptcy laws), most people will never risk starting their own business. They'll take one look across the dinner table at the family they love and swore to care for and seek out the safest paycheck they can find.
And that's really what's happening in the stock market as well. The stock market is always moody, but right now there's a huge deficit of trust that our financial institutions are being straight about their products. Imagine a financial system where being straight wasn't even required by law. Imagine how many would invest, then.
We see examples in folks like Madov(whose doings would be completely legal in War Eagles' dream world) of what would happen if you deregulate our financial sectors. And when people like that can roam free and rip people off without consequence...
...well, honestly, would you invest any money in a system like that? I know I wouldn't. And neither would the rest of the world.
So im still waiting to hear what apparently should or have been done if not the stimulus package. If you know how to fix the economy, im all ears honestly.
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
The gov't doesn't step in and force any bank to make any loan. There are, however, laws on the books that prevent banks from denying loans to people due to their location. But rest assured, if their credit was unsatisfactory, the bank is not forced to give them a loan anyway. The dude needs to stop listening to Limbaugh and get a grip on reality.
The closest thing there is to "forcing" a bank to give out a loan is an FHA loan(offered only to first time home buyers), which, by the way, is federally insured. If it goes to foreclosure, the bank gets their money back.
Same with full value borrowing, where you buy a house with little or no down payment. The homeowner has to pay an addition fee called PMI, which compensates the bank in the event of foreclusure.
But the notion that somebody can demand a loan from a bank is absurd.
As for the whole New Deal bit... in his first term, FDR brought us from 25% to 10% unemployment. Yes, the biggest changes came during WWII, but ECONOMICALLY speaking, WHAT WAS WWII???
WWII was the biggest case of gov't spending in our nations history. In 6 months, Detroit was converted from making cars to tanks, all funded by the gov't. The majority of everything we build was for the war effort and funded through insanely high taxes and thus, gov't spending. The tax on the wealthiest was around 90%, and wasn't lowered until JFK was in office.
So when you hear these dittohead morons talking about how WWII was what got us out of the depression, they are making the point that gov't spending is what gets us back to our feet again.
I find it hard to trust the right wingers all over this bill. It's hard to trust their logic.
"We can't spend $800 billion investing in our own country! This will hurt the economy even more." "The trillion+ we're spending in Iraq is ok though, even though that money will never benefit americans in any way."
You see my dilemma...
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
So im still waiting to hear what apparently should or have been done if not the stimulus package. If you know how to fix the economy, im all ears honestly.
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
The gov't doesn't step in and force any bank to make any loan. There are, however, laws on the books that prevent banks from denying loans to people due to their location. But rest assured, if their credit was unsatisfactory, the bank is not forced to give them a loan anyway. The dude needs to stop listening to Limbaugh and get a grip on reality.
The closest thing there is to "forcing" a bank to give out a loan is an FHA loan(offered only to first time home buyers), which, by the way, is federally insured. If it goes to foreclosure, the bank gets their money back.
Same with full value borrowing, where you buy a house with little or no down payment. The homeowner has to pay an addition fee called PMI, which compensates the bank in the event of foreclusure.
But the notion that somebody can demand a loan from a bank is absurd.
As for the whole New Deal bit... in his first term, FDR brought us from 25% to 10% unemployment. Yes, the biggest changes came during WWII, but ECONOMICALLY speaking, WHAT WAS WWII???
WWII was the biggest case of gov't spending in our nations history. In 6 months, Detroit was converted from making cars to tanks, all funded by the gov't. The majority of everything we build was for the war effort and funded through insanely high taxes and thus, gov't spending. The tax on the wealthiest was around 90%, and wasn't lowered until JFK was in office.
So when you hear these dittohead morons talking about how WWII was what got us out of the depression, they are making the point that gov't spending is what gets us back to our feet again.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete retard. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a retard and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete retard. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a retard and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
I will agree with you there. We do not need you either. Oh and I am very sorry that I feel little more then contempt for those with a hand out expecting the rest of America to foot the bill. Elitists is a good one. I am almost positive you make more in a week then I probably do in month. The difference is I WANT the abilite to become sucessful with out being punished for it. So hey if you want ot save the folks who screwed us, I am talking about those folks with there hand out and not in the employment line do so on your dollar not mine.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
I will agree with you there. We do not need you either. Oh and I am very sorry that I feel little more then contempt for those with a hand out expecting the rest of America to foot the bill. Elitists is a good one. I am almost positive you make more in a week then I probably do in month. The difference is I WANT the abilite to become sucessful with out being punished for it. So hey if you want ot save the folks who screwed us, I am talking about those folks with there hand out and not in the employment line do so on your dollar not mine.
Actually, if you're making that little, then you're not paying income tax. So you're the one getting the "handout" and I am paying the bill. If you live out in the country and you like all that electricity that FDR's evil lib'rul rural electrification act gives you, why, you can thank me for that, too.
And the notion that you THINK people WANT to stay on welfare and get a handout for the rest of their lives is proof that you have a very skewed view of the world. One invented by chubby drug addicted radio show hosts.
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
Two words for you: Midget Camera.
They have about as much relevance as your two.
Without the private sector you'd just have "the man's" servants working under "the man". I have yet to see what's going to convince me the goverment can save itself without a private sector. (See USSR's collapse for a majority goverment control)
Your ultimate uptopia is the goverment running the show as per one of your rebuttals against Wolfenpride earlier. (ultimately socialism)
So you're just reinforcing what I'm saying? If the goverment couldn't get us out of this mess in the first place what is more goverment control going to solve? Otherwise the Patriot Bonds in 2001 would've done the trick.
Also where are these new bonds to buy? Foreign nations seem to be pitched to buy this current debt, particularly China.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet. I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now. That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
Ah I see you're jealous and have fallen under envy like the rest of your side. (the left)
Chris Gardner is a guy who never gave up and made something of himself. The poster I was responding likely would have looked at Mr. Gardner as he failed time and time again as another "welfare loser".
That's elitism. The notion that if you're failing in, in my example, the economy of the last 28 years, then it's because you're "too pathetic to make something of yourself".
It's not that simple.
It is nice to see Glenn Beck interviewing someone worthwhile rather than whining like a little bitch like he normally does. I thought he'd never stop about his surgery and how "horrible" his health care was.
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
Two words for you: Midget Camera.
They have about as much relevance as your two.
Without the private sector you'd just have "the man's" servants working under "the man". I have yet to see what's going to convince me the goverment can save itself without a private sector. (See USSR's collapse for a majority goverment control)
Your ultimate uptopia is the goverment running the show as per one of your rebuttals against Wolfenpride earlier. (ultimately socialism)
So you're just reinforcing what I'm saying? If the goverment couldn't get us out of this mess in the first place what is more goverment control going to solve? Otherwise the Patriot Bonds in 2001 would've done the trick.
Also where are these new bonds to buy? Foreign nations seem to be pitched to buy this current debt, particularly China.
Nobody is talking about removing the private sector. We're talking about a stimulus package that was made because right now, the private sector is not even remotely interested in spending money. That happens when a handful of "geniuses" decides to create an economy that defies reality and gets called on it. Trust in the private sector erodes in the investment community. And we're now going to DE-regulate so that we never see it coming later? This will encourage investors? HAH!
I'm talking Keynesian economics. When the private sector stops spending, the gov't must intervene and keep spending going while enacting legislation to avoid similar events in the future.
I'd rather people in the business world be trustworthy and open so that people can make sound investment decisions, but things don't always turn out that way. I'd rather have a world where regulation isn't required because businesses are honest about what they do, but that's simply not the way it works. I'd rather think that people as individuals won't bite off more than they can chew, but they do. When enough of them are allowed to do it that it hoses up everyone else, it won't just heal itself through the miracle of the free market.
That's your Utopia. Which doesn't exist. So we need government intervention which, like taxes, is a necessary evil.
On the founding of our nation, "the Founders chose to give us the rule of a republic, not the rule of the majority in a democracy."
The reason is obvious, of course, as pure democracy is synonymous with mob rule, and in the absence of legal and institutional checks on majority power, tyranny results - mob rule devolves into rule by oligarchy in the name of the "people," the result itself of popular demands for the collectivization of society's product and redistribution of society's wealth; this then creates mass impoverishment, followed in turn by anarchy in the streets and then a popular outcry to "restore order." The popular democratic government metastasizes into an oligarchic dictatorship, and individual liberty and personal security become a thing of the past.And seriously, think about this as the current ACORN civil disobedience mob takes over homes in Baltimore, with impicit encouragement via the Barack Obama administration's mortgage entitlement program. It's not all abstract theory, folks.
The stimulus bill was past on a Friday the 13..not one person read it !!! before it pass.
Yep those Stox Markeets are just mood.y....YEEE---HAWWW! GENUINE OBAMA,It Stimulates! It Enervates! It Lifts and Separates!
IT’S THE MIRACLE STIMULUS OF THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY!It Lubricates! It Percolates! It Cleans and Penetrates!
The 3 fcking stooges...Mob rule my arse and today he has got balls to say he is going to cut the budget...did i just hear the news right.!!! did our comrades just say it.. budget cuts.Comrades Victory is ours.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Nobody is talking about removing the private sector. We're talking about a stimulus package that was made because right now, the private sector is not even remotely interested in spending money. That happens when a handful of "geniuses" decides to create an economy that defies reality and gets called on it. Trust in the private sector erodes in the investment community. And we're now going to DE-regulate so that we never see it coming later? This will encourage investors? HAH! I'm talking Keynesian economics. When the private sector stops spending, the gov't must intervene and keep spending going while enacting legislation to avoid similar events in the future. I'd rather people in the business world be trustworthy and open so that people can make sound investment decisions, but things don't always turn out that way. I'd rather have a world where regulation isn't required because businesses are honest about what they do, but that's simply not the way it works. I'd rather think that people as individuals won't bite off more than they can chew, but they do. When enough of them are allowed to do it that it hoses up everyone else, it won't just heal itself through the miracle of the free market. That's your Utopia. Which doesn't exist. So we need government intervention which, like taxes, is a necessary evil.
Ever since the taxations and welfare resulting from pre-WWII era to post era we've slided bit by bit towards socialism.
The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed.
Take for instance what happened in Texas via Ike. We were on our own in Houston for 7 days without power. (where I was with worse elsewhere) Private sector and the citizenry helped each other during this chaotic time. (Food, donating time, etc) I did hear reports of trucks delivering MREs but I sure didn't see them where I was.
If I were to wait on the goverment like your side wants I would've starved. Instead the people in our complex got together and alleviated each other's suffering.
The problem is the taste of such economics hasn't worked with the bank bailout. Banks are still stingy on lending credit and requesting more money. There was an auto bailout. Guess what? They want more money. (Least one does I think) Dependecy is breeding dependecy not economics.
"We need a bottom before we can know what value to set what in the market.", to steal an Alexis Glick line (Fox Business News) from last night on Greta Van Sustren. (Something like that she related)
To counter hypocrisy as a conservative I oppose all bailouts and disagree with expansion thereof.
Ever since the taxations and welfare resulting from pre-WWII era to post era we've slided bit by bit towards socialism.
The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed.
Take for instance what happened in Texas via Ike. We were on our own in Houston for 7 days without power. (where I was with worse elsewhere) Private sector and the citizenry helped each other during this chaotic time. (Food, donating time, etc) I did hear reports of trucks delivering MREs but I sure didn't see them where I was.
If I were to wait on the goverment like your side wants I would've starved. Instead the people in our complex got together and alleviated each other's suffering.
The problem is the taste of such economics hasn't worked with the bank bailout. Banks are still stingy on lending credit and requesting more money. There was an auto bailout. Guess what? They want more money. (Least one does I think) Dependecy is breeding dependecy not economics.
"We need a bottom before we can know what value to set what in the market.", to steal an Alexis Glick line (Fox Business News) from last night on Greta Van Sustren. (Something like that she related)
To counter hypocrisy as a conservative I oppose all bailouts and disagree with expansion thereof.
We've also slid bit by bit from being another country with another economy to being an economic superpower. Comparing the standard of living post WWII with the atrocious labor standards and robber barons and indentured servitude of the america before... well, there's just no comparison. But hey, back then the wealthy got to be wealthy, and those "too pathetic to help themselves" got to be their servants, right? Just as it ought to be in the conservative world.
"The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed."
Actually, the banking bailout is a perfect example. Had Glass-Steagol(as put into law by FDR and repealed by Clinton) still been around and enforced, we wouldn't have just shelled out 850 billion to the banks last October. How much did we save by NOT keeping Glass-Steagol over the last 9 years? Any idea? Was it more than 850 billion?
And hey, "my side" isn't the one claiming that World War II, with the most socialistic tax table and gov't control over the private sector in our nations history to date, is responsible for lifting us out of the Great Depression. "Your side" is.
It was "your sides" administration that effectively nationalized the banks. And don't even THINK about disowning GWB. "Your side" were rallying to him and attacking any criticism of him, right up to the last election cycle after which you threw him under the bus.
And those that you listen to on the radio that foster this nonsense about how America is being turned into a Soviet Socialist country... ummm... they became MILLIONAIRES in this "soviet socialist" post New Deal country. Millionaires that get to make that money bitching about the people in power all while keeping their heads, in this "soviet socialist" country.
Hurricane relief is another topic altogether. But if you really think people caught up in a hurricane are just "waiting around for the gov't to save them", you have no clue, whatsoever. And to believe that of Americans, I really have to wonder why you live here.
Of course the banks aren't lending money. There is NO confidence in our private economic system right now, and there's no reason for there to be. People are holding on to their money, as well they should, and there's no reason to believe that the economy will grow again in the immediate future. Yes, the bailout mad me mad. Not that we did it, but because Paulson was demanding full control of it without being subject to review. Not even the president should have that kind of power. And with all that, we wonder why the money can't be accounted for. Either way, I miss your point in bringing this up, because it has nothing to do with the stimulus package.
What was the reason for the bailout? Why didn't we just let them fail? We were told, "they're too big to fail". So we gave them money. Many of them went out and bought up other banks, making them even bigger. How's that for balls?
What the stimulus package does is it keeps people working. It was not intended to fix the banks or restore confidence in the market. It's meant to get people working and pay them so that they go and spend some money and keep other businesses afloat. It has some other stuff in it for alternative energy to get the ball rolling for cheaper energy in the future. Some flat out stupid stuff, too. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it's what could get passed in a short period of time. And unlike the bank bailout, it can be accounted for.
The auto bailouts... guess what? They SAID they'd probably need more money later. And now they do. At least they actually build something instead of push paper around.
On the founding of our nation, "the Founders chose to give us the rule of a republic, not the rule of the majority in a democracy." The reason is obvious, of course, as pure democracy is synonymous with mob rule, and in the absence of legal and institutional checks on majority power, tyranny results - mob rule devolves into rule by oligarchy in the name of the "people," the result itself of popular demands for the collectivization of society's product and redistribution of society's wealth; this then creates mass impoverishment, followed in turn by anarchy in the streets and then a popular outcry to "restore order." The popular democratic government metastasizes into an oligarchic dictatorship, and individual liberty and personal security become a thing of the past.And seriously, think about this as the current ACORN civil disobedience mob takes over homes in Baltimore, with impicit encouragement via the Barack Obama administration's mortgage entitlement program. It's not all abstract theory, folks.
The stimulus bill was past on a Friday the 13..not one person read it !!! before it pass.
The 3 fcking stooges...Mob rule my arse and today he has got balls to say he is going to cut the budget...did i just hear the news right.!!! did our comrades just say it.. budget cuts.Comrades Victory is ours.
On the founding of our nation: Glad to see you admit to your hatred of democracy, AND of America as a whole, since the majority is apparently too stupid in your world to vote wisely, and need the "elite" to set them straight.
Truth of the matter is, our Founding Fathers all disagreed. They weren't all conservatives who hated gov't, gays, and loved guns n' God. They all disagreed about a great many things, but all agreed on enough things to create a "more perfect union".
Not one person read the stimulus bill... proof? Did somebody other than Fox News or Rushbo "verify" this?
I'm talking Keynesian economics. When the private sector stops spending, the gov't must intervene and keep spending going while enacting legislation to avoid similar events in the future.
Given what's just happened to the world economy, I'm suprised anyone dares mention his name anymore.
The problem is the gov't uses "Keynesian economics" 100% of the time and not just in emergencies as Keynes intended. You can't play the same ace twice in one hand.
What you need to recognise, is that the private sector funds the government.
Also that dishonest people are just as likely to work in the government as in the private sector.
I personally find it easier to trust someone spending his own money than I do someone spending mine. I also economically trust people who create wealth with my investments above those who simply spend it.
I enjoyed your comments about poor people not being poor just because they are lazy. I think this is very true. I also think that rich people are not rich just becuase they exploit others.
With regards to your above idea's on democracy, I think you misunderstand how the system works. A democracy does not grant every citizen a say in political decisions. Decisions are still made by elites. As they should be. In a democracy, (and also communism) citizens have some say in in chosing which elites run the country.
Comments
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
The Official God FAQ
Son, I say son, it would take me too much time to explain, and you wouldn't understand it anyway.
Just give me $11 trillion with, say a couple a days head start, no checks and balances, nobody looking over my shoulder, or slowing me down, and I'll fix it for ya!
Son, I say son, it would take me too much time to explain, and you wouldn't understand it anyway.
Just give me $11 trillion with, say a couple a days head start, no checks and balances, nobody looking over my shoulder, or slowing me down, and I'll fix it for ya!
Well thats not very convincing at all =/
Anyone else have ideas they want to share?
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
It wouldn't. Ask any third world country which by default, uses "anything goes" for an economic system. the system always inevitably pools money into a small percentage of the population(those in power), and since no one else can afford goods and services, the economy collapses. We're experiencing a mini-version of that right now ourselves, which was delayed for a time by unprecedented borrowing.
WIthout social safety nets(like bankruptcy laws), most people will never risk starting their own business. They'll take one look across the dinner table at the family they love and swore to care for and seek out the safest paycheck they can find.
And that's really what's happening in the stock market as well. The stock market is always moody, but right now there's a huge deficit of trust that our financial institutions are being straight about their products. Imagine a financial system where being straight wasn't even required by law. Imagine how many would invest, then.
We see examples in folks like Madov(whose doings would be completely legal in War Eagles' dream world) of what would happen if you deregulate our financial sectors. And when people like that can roam free and rip people off without consequence...
...well, honestly, would you invest any money in a system like that? I know I wouldn't. And neither would the rest of the world.
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
The gov't doesn't step in and force any bank to make any loan. There are, however, laws on the books that prevent banks from denying loans to people due to their location. But rest assured, if their credit was unsatisfactory, the bank is not forced to give them a loan anyway. The dude needs to stop listening to Limbaugh and get a grip on reality.
The closest thing there is to "forcing" a bank to give out a loan is an FHA loan(offered only to first time home buyers), which, by the way, is federally insured. If it goes to foreclosure, the bank gets their money back.
Same with full value borrowing, where you buy a house with little or no down payment. The homeowner has to pay an addition fee called PMI, which compensates the bank in the event of foreclusure.
But the notion that somebody can demand a loan from a bank is absurd.
As for the whole New Deal bit... in his first term, FDR brought us from 25% to 10% unemployment. Yes, the biggest changes came during WWII, but ECONOMICALLY speaking, WHAT WAS WWII???
WWII was the biggest case of gov't spending in our nations history. In 6 months, Detroit was converted from making cars to tanks, all funded by the gov't. The majority of everything we build was for the war effort and funded through insanely high taxes and thus, gov't spending. The tax on the wealthiest was around 90%, and wasn't lowered until JFK was in office.
So when you hear these dittohead morons talking about how WWII was what got us out of the depression, they are making the point that gov't spending is what gets us back to our feet again.
Particularly when they point to the absolute hugest case of gov't spending in American history (WWII) to explain why gov't spending via the New Deal doesn't work.
Ever heard of Laissez Faire? It means the government stays the hell out of the course of things and let the chips fall where they may. If people and banks made mistakes then a correction needs to play out. And that correction does not include the stealing and pillaging of the American worker through taxation so that money can be funneled back to organizations and people who made bad decisions.
But then, we're living in a society that makes it a habit to never take responsibility for anything. Everything is someone else's fault and if it is ever proven that beyond a doubt it was your fault you then feel entitled to being bailed out by others who made good decisions. No lessons are learned except that it's okay to take from others to correct your own problems.
No one today has a sense of pride or self-determination. If they did this moron we have as a President now would not have been elected. Instead people turned to the "messiah" who promised them everything and told them how important it is for the federal government to come fix their lives for them.
Explain how this would fix the economy please?
Cause I just don't see it, banks fail, people and companies loose all their money, businesses shut down, people can't get jobs, loose their homes, can't buy food, etc. Sounds like the country would just fall apart at that point..
I would like to point out that many of the banks that are in trouble now are only in trouble because the government stepped in forcing some to do things they didn't want to and bailing out others causing a loss of confidence in the system.
As for what would have happened if they had left things alone, well federal deposit insurance would have protected peoples savings, jobs may have been lost but they would have been regained because big companies that were not being stupid may have expanded and little companies would have not only gained room to grow but access to trained employees to fill the positions.
In the end I am certain that had the free market been left to sort itself out the pain would be much shorter, and to those that may point to government bailouts during the great depression I would like to point out that the only thing that ended it was world war2, I suspect most would no like a world war3 to bring us out of this mess.
Lastly I would like to ask when it became a good idea to solve a credit problem by borrowing money??
So if WWII wouldn't have happened you believe that everything would have sorted itself out?
Cmon, stop talking in absolutes. You have no idea just like everybody else.
The gov't doesn't step in and force any bank to make any loan. There are, however, laws on the books that prevent banks from denying loans to people due to their location. But rest assured, if their credit was unsatisfactory, the bank is not forced to give them a loan anyway. The dude needs to stop listening to Limbaugh and get a grip on reality.
The closest thing there is to "forcing" a bank to give out a loan is an FHA loan(offered only to first time home buyers), which, by the way, is federally insured. If it goes to foreclosure, the bank gets their money back.
Same with full value borrowing, where you buy a house with little or no down payment. The homeowner has to pay an addition fee called PMI, which compensates the bank in the event of foreclusure.
But the notion that somebody can demand a loan from a bank is absurd.
As for the whole New Deal bit... in his first term, FDR brought us from 25% to 10% unemployment. Yes, the biggest changes came during WWII, but ECONOMICALLY speaking, WHAT WAS WWII???
WWII was the biggest case of gov't spending in our nations history. In 6 months, Detroit was converted from making cars to tanks, all funded by the gov't. The majority of everything we build was for the war effort and funded through insanely high taxes and thus, gov't spending. The tax on the wealthiest was around 90%, and wasn't lowered until JFK was in office.
So when you hear these dittohead morons talking about how WWII was what got us out of the depression, they are making the point that gov't spending is what gets us back to our feet again.
/agree
The Official God FAQ
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete kid. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a kid and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete retard. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a retard and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
Two words for you: Midget Camera.
They have about as much relevance as your two.
Come on, Wolfenpride....you actually don't think this porkulas bill is going to work do you?
There are a ton of democrate leaders who are now regretting this bill (Kansas City mayor, Mark Funkhowser (sp) included).
This bill is a mistake. Only 13% of the bill goes toward infrastructure. That's it. And one Democrate Senator has been quoted "If you do get a job out of this bill it may only last for about 11 months; it's not a permament solution."
I'm a conservative and I can admit the stupid crap Bush did (like passing the first marxist bill)...surely you can't think this is a good idea.
Regardless of your actual trust in the bill doesn't mean you can start acting like a complete retard. Just because you want, and believe, it to fail doesn't mean you can act like a retard and call nothing proof. What if people acted like that in science? Where would we be today then, if proving something wasn't necessary only you believing or hoping that it is so.
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
I will agree with you there. We do not need you either. Oh and I am very sorry that I feel little more then contempt for those with a hand out expecting the rest of America to foot the bill. Elitists is a good one. I am almost positive you make more in a week then I probably do in month. The difference is I WANT the abilite to become sucessful with out being punished for it. So hey if you want ot save the folks who screwed us, I am talking about those folks with there hand out and not in the employment line do so on your dollar not mine.
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty are said to only exist if they are deliberately sought and paid for".
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for certain that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
I honestly don't know if the stimulus will turn things around. But I do know what HASN'T worked over the past 28 years, and I know what economic philosophies succeeded in fixing the deficit and which ones didn't. I also know who GAVE us this insane deficit in the first place, and how hypocritical it is of THEM to start complaining about it NOW.
Wait so only one side is allowed to sabatage athe Nation in order to win ellections? Only one side can critisize the affairs of the President? Just checking. I love how one sided this shit gets. Maybe the last 28 years screwed those to pathetic to help themselves but I was kind of hoping to achieve wealth at some point. Guess I should wipe my ass with my cash so thse shit birds cant have it.
Hmmm... well you're "allowed" to say anything you want. I'm also allowed to expose you for the shallow thinking dittohead you are, but you're doing just fine with that on your own. How petty and pathetic to cry "failure" on a bill when the ink hasn't even dried, yet.
I'm glad the truth is coming out, though, about you folks. I'm glad you're the ones revealing it with comments like "the last 28 years screwed those too pathetic to help themselves". We know who the real elitists are, now.
That's one area in which I certainly disagree with Mr. Obama. He thinks we need folks like you united with us in order to succeed. I disagree.
I will agree with you there. We do not need you either. Oh and I am very sorry that I feel little more then contempt for those with a hand out expecting the rest of America to foot the bill. Elitists is a good one. I am almost positive you make more in a week then I probably do in month. The difference is I WANT the abilite to become sucessful with out being punished for it. So hey if you want ot save the folks who screwed us, I am talking about those folks with there hand out and not in the employment line do so on your dollar not mine.
Actually, if you're making that little, then you're not paying income tax. So you're the one getting the "handout" and I am paying the bill. If you live out in the country and you like all that electricity that FDR's evil lib'rul rural electrification act gives you, why, you can thank me for that, too.
And the notion that you THINK people WANT to stay on welfare and get a handout for the rest of their lives is proof that you have a very skewed view of the world. One invented by chubby drug addicted radio show hosts.
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
Two words for you: Midget Camera.
They have about as much relevance as your two.
Without the private sector you'd just have "the man's" servants working under "the man". I have yet to see what's going to convince me the goverment can save itself without a private sector. (See USSR's collapse for a majority goverment control)
Your ultimate uptopia is the goverment running the show as per one of your rebuttals against Wolfenpride earlier. (ultimately socialism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko-hyoteki_class_submarine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Bonds
So you're just reinforcing what I'm saying? If the goverment couldn't get us out of this mess in the first place what is more goverment control going to solve? Otherwise the Patriot Bonds in 2001 would've done the trick.
Also where are these new bonds to buy? Foreign nations seem to be pitched to buy this current debt, particularly China.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Ah I see you're jealous and have fallen under envy like the rest of your side. (the left)
Glenn Beck: A Real American—Chris Gardner (2:55-2:57)
So people like this are elites? That's what you're saying about people that are successful and make money.
Are you sure you want to go down that line?
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
I'd be glad to.
Chris Gardner is a guy who never gave up and made something of himself. The poster I was responding likely would have looked at Mr. Gardner as he failed time and time again as another "welfare loser".
That's elitism. The notion that if you're failing in, in my example, the economy of the last 28 years, then it's because you're "too pathetic to make something of yourself".
It's not that simple.
It is nice to see Glenn Beck interviewing someone worthwhile rather than whining like a little bitch like he normally does. I thought he'd never stop about his surgery and how "horrible" his health care was.
Two words for ya. Private Sector.
*2 Pip-Boy thumbs right back at ya*
Two words for you: Midget Camera.
They have about as much relevance as your two.
Without the private sector you'd just have "the man's" servants working under "the man". I have yet to see what's going to convince me the goverment can save itself without a private sector. (See USSR's collapse for a majority goverment control)
Your ultimate uptopia is the goverment running the show as per one of your rebuttals against Wolfenpride earlier. (ultimately socialism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ko-hyoteki_class_submarine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Bonds
So you're just reinforcing what I'm saying? If the goverment couldn't get us out of this mess in the first place what is more goverment control going to solve? Otherwise the Patriot Bonds in 2001 would've done the trick.
Also where are these new bonds to buy? Foreign nations seem to be pitched to buy this current debt, particularly China.
Nobody is talking about removing the private sector. We're talking about a stimulus package that was made because right now, the private sector is not even remotely interested in spending money. That happens when a handful of "geniuses" decides to create an economy that defies reality and gets called on it. Trust in the private sector erodes in the investment community. And we're now going to DE-regulate so that we never see it coming later? This will encourage investors? HAH!
I'm talking Keynesian economics. When the private sector stops spending, the gov't must intervene and keep spending going while enacting legislation to avoid similar events in the future.
I'd rather people in the business world be trustworthy and open so that people can make sound investment decisions, but things don't always turn out that way. I'd rather have a world where regulation isn't required because businesses are honest about what they do, but that's simply not the way it works. I'd rather think that people as individuals won't bite off more than they can chew, but they do. When enough of them are allowed to do it that it hoses up everyone else, it won't just heal itself through the miracle of the free market.
That's your Utopia. Which doesn't exist. So we need government intervention which, like taxes, is a necessary evil.
On the founding of our nation, "the Founders chose to give us the rule of a republic, not the rule of the majority in a democracy."
The reason is obvious, of course, as pure democracy is synonymous with mob rule, and in the absence of legal and institutional checks on majority power, tyranny results - mob rule devolves into rule by oligarchy in the name of the "people," the result itself of popular demands for the collectivization of society's product and redistribution of society's wealth; this then creates mass impoverishment, followed in turn by anarchy in the streets and then a popular outcry to "restore order." The popular democratic government metastasizes into an oligarchic dictatorship, and individual liberty and personal security become a thing of the past.And seriously, think about this as the current ACORN civil disobedience mob takes over homes in Baltimore, with impicit encouragement via the Barack Obama administration's mortgage entitlement program. It's not all abstract theory, folks.
The stimulus bill was past on a Friday the 13..not one person read it !!! before it pass.
Yep those Stox Markeets are just mood.y....YEEE---HAWWW! GENUINE OBAMA,It Stimulates! It Enervates! It Lifts and Separates!
IT’S THE MIRACLE STIMULUS OF THE TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY!It Lubricates! It Percolates! It Cleans and Penetrates!
The 3 fcking stooges...Mob rule my arse and today he has got balls to say he is going to cut the budget...did i just hear the news right.!!! did our comrades just say it.. budget cuts.
Comrades Victory is ours.
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
All I want to know is how much I am getting.
Ever since the taxations and welfare resulting from pre-WWII era to post era we've slided bit by bit towards socialism.
The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed.
Take for instance what happened in Texas via Ike. We were on our own in Houston for 7 days without power. (where I was with worse elsewhere) Private sector and the citizenry helped each other during this chaotic time. (Food, donating time, etc) I did hear reports of trucks delivering MREs but I sure didn't see them where I was.
If I were to wait on the goverment like your side wants I would've starved. Instead the people in our complex got together and alleviated each other's suffering.
The problem is the taste of such economics hasn't worked with the bank bailout. Banks are still stingy on lending credit and requesting more money. There was an auto bailout. Guess what? They want more money. (Least one does I think) Dependecy is breeding dependecy not economics.
Americans'Standard of Living Permanently Changed?
"We need a bottom before we can know what value to set what in the market.", to steal an Alexis Glick line (Fox Business News) from last night on Greta Van Sustren. (Something like that she related)
To counter hypocrisy as a conservative I oppose all bailouts and disagree with expansion thereof.
Which is why I oppose this more than ever.
@Frodus
That's an awesome post!
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
Ever since the taxations and welfare resulting from pre-WWII era to post era we've slided bit by bit towards socialism.
The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed.
Take for instance what happened in Texas via Ike. We were on our own in Houston for 7 days without power. (where I was with worse elsewhere) Private sector and the citizenry helped each other during this chaotic time. (Food, donating time, etc) I did hear reports of trucks delivering MREs but I sure didn't see them where I was.
If I were to wait on the goverment like your side wants I would've starved. Instead the people in our complex got together and alleviated each other's suffering.
The problem is the taste of such economics hasn't worked with the bank bailout. Banks are still stingy on lending credit and requesting more money. There was an auto bailout. Guess what? They want more money. (Least one does I think) Dependecy is breeding dependecy not economics.
Americans'Standard of Living Permanently Changed?
"We need a bottom before we can know what value to set what in the market.", to steal an Alexis Glick line (Fox Business News) from last night on Greta Van Sustren. (Something like that she related)
To counter hypocrisy as a conservative I oppose all bailouts and disagree with expansion thereof.
Which is why I oppose this more than ever.
@Frodus
That's an awesome post!
We've also slid bit by bit from being another country with another economy to being an economic superpower. Comparing the standard of living post WWII with the atrocious labor standards and robber barons and indentured servitude of the america before... well, there's just no comparison. But hey, back then the wealthy got to be wealthy, and those "too pathetic to help themselves" got to be their servants, right? Just as it ought to be in the conservative world.
"The point I'm stressing is more goverment intrusion is costing more as a whole. I haven't seen the opposite as the left has claimed."
Actually, the banking bailout is a perfect example. Had Glass-Steagol(as put into law by FDR and repealed by Clinton) still been around and enforced, we wouldn't have just shelled out 850 billion to the banks last October. How much did we save by NOT keeping Glass-Steagol over the last 9 years? Any idea? Was it more than 850 billion?
And hey, "my side" isn't the one claiming that World War II, with the most socialistic tax table and gov't control over the private sector in our nations history to date, is responsible for lifting us out of the Great Depression. "Your side" is.
It was "your sides" administration that effectively nationalized the banks. And don't even THINK about disowning GWB. "Your side" were rallying to him and attacking any criticism of him, right up to the last election cycle after which you threw him under the bus.
And those that you listen to on the radio that foster this nonsense about how America is being turned into a Soviet Socialist country... ummm... they became MILLIONAIRES in this "soviet socialist" post New Deal country. Millionaires that get to make that money bitching about the people in power all while keeping their heads, in this "soviet socialist" country.
Hurricane relief is another topic altogether. But if you really think people caught up in a hurricane are just "waiting around for the gov't to save them", you have no clue, whatsoever. And to believe that of Americans, I really have to wonder why you live here.
Of course the banks aren't lending money. There is NO confidence in our private economic system right now, and there's no reason for there to be. People are holding on to their money, as well they should, and there's no reason to believe that the economy will grow again in the immediate future. Yes, the bailout mad me mad. Not that we did it, but because Paulson was demanding full control of it without being subject to review. Not even the president should have that kind of power. And with all that, we wonder why the money can't be accounted for. Either way, I miss your point in bringing this up, because it has nothing to do with the stimulus package.
What was the reason for the bailout? Why didn't we just let them fail? We were told, "they're too big to fail". So we gave them money. Many of them went out and bought up other banks, making them even bigger. How's that for balls?
What the stimulus package does is it keeps people working. It was not intended to fix the banks or restore confidence in the market. It's meant to get people working and pay them so that they go and spend some money and keep other businesses afloat. It has some other stuff in it for alternative energy to get the ball rolling for cheaper energy in the future. Some flat out stupid stuff, too. It's not what I would have hoped for, but it's what could get passed in a short period of time. And unlike the bank bailout, it can be accounted for.
The auto bailouts... guess what? They SAID they'd probably need more money later. And now they do. At least they actually build something instead of push paper around.
On the founding of our nation: Glad to see you admit to your hatred of democracy, AND of America as a whole, since the majority is apparently too stupid in your world to vote wisely, and need the "elite" to set them straight.
Truth of the matter is, our Founding Fathers all disagreed. They weren't all conservatives who hated gov't, gays, and loved guns n' God. They all disagreed about a great many things, but all agreed on enough things to create a "more perfect union".
Not one person read the stimulus bill... proof? Did somebody other than Fox News or Rushbo "verify" this?
Given what's just happened to the world economy, I'm suprised anyone dares mention his name anymore.
The problem is the gov't uses "Keynesian economics" 100% of the time and not just in emergencies as Keynes intended. You can't play the same ace twice in one hand.
What you need to recognise, is that the private sector funds the government.
Also that dishonest people are just as likely to work in the government as in the private sector.
I personally find it easier to trust someone spending his own money than I do someone spending mine. I also economically trust people who create wealth with my investments above those who simply spend it.
I enjoyed your comments about poor people not being poor just because they are lazy. I think this is very true. I also think that rich people are not rich just becuase they exploit others.
With regards to your above idea's on democracy, I think you misunderstand how the system works. A democracy does not grant every citizen a say in political decisions. Decisions are still made by elites. As they should be. In a democracy, (and also communism) citizens have some say in in chosing which elites run the country.