I'm with Cynthe and Fibsdk... I think it looks interesting. The fact that you will have companions does nto instantly mean there will be no grouping. Any of you who are jumping straight to that are assuming and you all know what that makes you look like... SO anyway I think its shaping up very nicely and I for one am excited about this game and very much look forward to playing it.
I played a female Shepard in Mass Effect and I never got any indication of a sexual relationship (except with the all female alien race, but then that does not count).
I have completed Mass Effect several times to unlock all the achievments. If you are a male Sheppard you can romance either Ash or Liara, you can also pull 'The Consort' on the Citadel. As a female Sheppard, you can romance either Kaiden or Liara and can also get it on with 'The Consort'.
The Mass Effect bit out of the way, I'm actually looking forward to what the different companion characters are going to bring to the story. I'm looking forward to real quests and storyline in an MMO for once instead of the usual kill 10 crap, or collect 10 crap. BioWare make great storybased games and SW:TOR will be no different.
To all the jaded ex-SWGers, give it a rest. Please. I loved SWG too, but this game is something completely different and its not going to change just because you are throwing your toys out the pram! Plan to play this game and support it or GTFO tbh. There are plenty of sandboxes releasing this year and next year for us to enjoy, so this game not being sandox doesn't matter. I will play SW:TOR for my Star Wars fix and I'll either keep playing EVE, or pick up Fallen Earth or Earthrise for my sandbox fix. There is also Darkfall and Mortal Online, but I've had my fill of the fantasy genre so I'll be sticking to Sci-Fi and Post-Apoc.
MMORPG History: Playing - EVE Online. Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion. Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9). Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
There shouldn't be 1 standard for every MMO being released. Having something different is a positive thing. If you dislike the style SW: TOR is turning out to be then thank god for other options? I for one love the direction this is going as i am tired of the same ol same ol
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
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What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion? A: Join a group.
Well, to my defense, I've never used vent. If people want to RP, then that's what they'll do. But some people won't and we're all going to have to accept it (this isn't no dictatorship).
IMHO they should loose the companion thing .... lets ppl grp up instead.
no thx i only wanna group with my rl freinds i cant stand people who go afk every 5 mins or simply cant play or cant do 2 things at once and have to stand still to type etc it´just ruins the game so no im glad theyr doing this theyr sticking true to kotor as they should if yoou dont like then gg kthxbye
I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
fails? hmm i wonder why wow has 12 mill subs hmm i wonder why ye cause its what people like? just look at darkfall lolz 20k people man thats what you would call beyond epic failure
There shouldn't be 1 standard for every MMO being released. Having something different is a positive thing. If you dislike the style SW: TOR is turning out to be then thank god for other options? I for one love the direction this is going as i am tired of the same ol same ol
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Name them. No wait let me do it;
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Aion, Mortal Online, all games that will encourage group play.
TOR, Champions Online, games that cater to the solo or small group play.
No I don't see it as becoming the standard I see it as an option that people simply did not have before.
I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
fails? hmm i wonder why wow has 12 mill subs hmm i wonder why ye cause its what people like? just look at darkfall lolz 20k people man thats what you would call beyond epic failure
What the hell is your problem you 4 year old? You have attacked 2 people for no reason when they are having a mature conversation.
anyway as far as immersion goes, its a vast minority of people who have ever been "immersed" in their mmo and thats no fault of games or technology normal people don't come to games looking for it and a lot of people simply can't do it. The people who look at a game and say i can get lost in that world are few and rightly not catered to.
Id add that this ruins it for the rest of us because some of the immersion stuff is pretty cool even for people who don't care at all about getting lost in the game.
There shouldn't be 1 standard for every MMO being released. Having something different is a positive thing. If you dislike the style SW: TOR is turning out to be then thank god for other options? I for one love the direction this is going as i am tired of the same ol same ol
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Name them. No wait let me do it;
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Aion, Mortal Online, all games that will encourage group play.
TOR, Champions Online, games that cater to the solo or small group play.
No I don't see it as becoming the standard I see it as an option that people simply did not have before.
Ok,all the game I want to play, based on IP's I'm interested in
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
Ugh, no they don't.....where in anything did I say is Vent mentioned. I actually dislike getting on voice cause yeah is does break immersion most the time and make things a lot easier. Plus then I have to listen to immature boys with unbroken, female voices...blech!
However, if/when I ever get into a large raid which is very rare or I just wanna talk to friends...sure I use vent cause its easier to have a conversation.
To be quite honest there isn't a problem with this as far as experiencing a story-line goes. There are just a couple of major flaws with Bioware's logic on this one.
1. If it's to keep a sense of immersion then by virtue of the fact that you are making an MMORPG you are already fighting a useless battle. You can't have this whole, 'you're a hero, you're super special and a snowflake' BS when at some point you run into another player who is....exactly....like....you. That right there will shatter any sense of immersion.
2. The point of MMO's was, at least originally, was that you were just some guy/girl of class x. You want to be a hero? Well then YOU better make a name for YOURSELF. I'm sorry, but I just can't take any 'hero' storyline in an mmo the way the creators want me to.
Beyond those two points there are some other problems.
1. I like grouping with other people. That's how you build a community in an mmo. It's how guilds start or grow. If there is an option to form a player-group to handle group content then that's great. WoW already set the standard of a group matching system that makes finding a group much, much less of a hassle.
2. These 'companions' better leave after a certain point. High-level content shouldn't have a crutch of little companion AI's running around too. By high-level content I of course mean raids. Again, WoW already has a system of scalable raids that you can handle with different sized groups. Sorry to say it, but if you can solo ALL of the content of the game with your companions then people are going to get bored fast.
3. The companions shouldn't ever be involved in PvP. This is for two reasons, one personal and one not.
a. Personally I love PvP. PLAYER versus PLAYER. Not Player (and companion ai's) versus Player (and companion ai's). I have zero problem with controlling AI's in combat myself because I'm very good at mult-tasking. But if I want to control a bunch of AI's and a hero against another player then I'll just play DoW 2.
b. The vast majority of the ideas I've seen behind this game are directly derived from the experiences the newer generation of MMO gamers is used to. Those include fast, easy soloability (soloing shouldn't be a difficult thing), soloing to get good gear (not the best gear, but enough of the top-end stuff that it doesn't matter much) and basically variations of those two things in all facets of the game. Only the first of those things I completely agree with myself though. But I digress. The point is I don't think this newer generation could handle having to maintain and order around a group of AI's plus themselves in PvP. I think they'd honestly give up for the most part.
Granted my second concern is really just a brief telling of how I view newer MMO gamers, it's probably true.
Either way PvP should NEVER involve a group of AI companions in this fashion. I'm not going to respect any other views as far as PvP is concerned here. Yes, I'm saying, "I'm right, you're wrong. There is no other viewpoint on this."
However, I do support the idea to the extent of soloing up to high-level content. Let's be honest here, the lower levels of any MMO are the 'learning levels' and by mid-level if you haven't gotten a good idea of what you're doing you never will. End game is for refinement and where the majority of content usually lies, more or less.
I have to agree with most of the posters here that I dont like HAVING to have a pet/companion. I want to be "solo" if I want to be. I sure hope they give you the option to turn it off or leave them at the cantina or something.
My thoughts exactly. While having a pet/companion can be a fun option I also want to have the option of NOT having one; and not being disadvantaged in any way shape or form because of making that choice.
How else can the game have characters/players like for instance Boba Fett, a lone bounty hunter roaming the galaxy in his single-seat space ship, an individual that's most definitely not traveling around with a companion (or even a droid) at his side!
I have to agree with most of the posters here that I dont like HAVING to have a pet/companion. I want to be "solo" if I want to be. I sure hope they give you the option to turn it off or leave them at the cantina or something.
My thoughts exactly. While having a pet/companion can be a fun option I also want to have the option of NOT having one; and not being disadvantaged in any way shape or form because of making that choice.
How else can the game have characters/players like for instance Boba Fett, a lone bounty hunter roaming the galaxy in his single-seat space ship, an individual that's most definitely not traveling around with a companion (or even a droid) at his side!
Exactly. Before Han met Chewbaca he worked alone and was very successful at it.
Though really, all I see this companion thing as is a way for people who suck to feel big. You have all these AI's that do whatever you say and follow you around wherever. I honestly don't want to have to use these things. And I don't mean that in an optional way. I mean that if I choose not to use them then it should not affect my gameplay to any noticeable extent.
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
Ugh, no they don't.....where in anything did I say is Vent mentioned. I actually dislike getting on voice cause yeah is does break immersion most the time and make things a lot easier. Plus then I have to listen to immature boys with unbroken, female voices...blech!
However, if/when I ever get into a large raid which is very rare or I just wanna talk to friends...sure I use vent cause its easier to have a conversation.
I wasn't aware that I needed your permission before bringing up a new facet to the argument. Can I please talk about the game outside of your own narrow point of view, please?!
Vent is one of the predominant trends in modern MMOs which I truly hate, and it ruins gameplay for me, even in modern-themed games. Hell, I don't even use my headset on my Xbox 360. I just shut up and kick ass. Half the people on vent don't even have anything cool or important to say anyway, so I'd prefer that they keep their little yappers shut. This genre used to be silent and wonderful. Now it's filled with little kids' voices.
More to the recent conversation, I would love to see an opt-out feature for sidekicks. It would be hard to balance, but it would still be fun to see characters maybe get a minor boost to exp or something for opting out.
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I imagine it would be something like having your own pet IG-88 or an Ebon Hawk repair drone type thing. A pet isn't always an animal you have to feed meat or such.
Originally posted by Souldrainer Vent is one of the predominant trends in modern MMOs which I truly hate, and it ruins gameplay for me, even in modern-themed games. Hell, I don't even use my headset on my Xbox 360. I just shut up and kick ass. Half the people on vent don't even have anything cool or important to say anyway, so I'd prefer that they keep their little yappers shut. This genre used to be silent and wonderful. Now it's filled with little kids' voices.
Yeah, the more I use vent the less I like it, I've been playing a few games lately without any voice chat and I feel better about it. It's always about spreading some stupid rumor or someone talking about how uber they are, I mean shut the hell up and nobody cares about what you have to say. However I occasionally use the headset on my xbox, the comments you hear on there are priceless
Oh yeah, WoW group voice chat is FTL, I couldn't believe the bullshit I heard on there.
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Smoke on THAT, naysayers.
I'm still saying nay because filling a battle with npc's in that fashion is utterly and completely retarded.
There are some exceptions to this that I will agree with. For example if you work your way up in fame and ranking then you can hire npc's to fight in a full-scale battle. And even then that would have to be well-done.
However, just having everybody with their e-peen enlarging party to inflate that numbers you see in pvp combat is lame. As I said, if PvP isn player (and their ai's) versus player (and ai's) then a large portion of individual skill is taken out of the equation.
Besides that you would run into a situation where your class choice doesn't matter. You can have companions, just find some that have abilities you don't! Yay! Useless class choice!
Smoke on -that-, supporters.
Of course, as I already said, if the companions aren't used in PvP and aren't used after a certain level then that would create a very interesting, fun environment.
Disappointing. You'd think they would keep more emmersion by NOT doing this kind of thing and making people be each other's companions.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Smoke on THAT, naysayers.
Ok, PvP aside which we take as a granted, MMO's should also promote positive player interactions. Not make them mandatory, but promote them. An MMO that goes out of its way to de-emphasize positive player interaction will be seen by many as (want to be careful here) not necessarily a bad game... but not strictly as an MMO. People who've been longing to bring together some of their favorite IP's and MMO's get disappointed when it turns out a lot of what they think makes an MMO an MMO will be left out of the game. There is a difference between an 'mmo' and an 'rpg with multiplayer'
Comments
I'm with Cynthe and Fibsdk... I think it looks interesting. The fact that you will have companions does nto instantly mean there will be no grouping. Any of you who are jumping straight to that are assuming and you all know what that makes you look like... SO anyway I think its shaping up very nicely and I for one am excited about this game and very much look forward to playing it.
I have completed Mass Effect several times to unlock all the achievments. If you are a male Sheppard you can romance either Ash or Liara, you can also pull 'The Consort' on the Citadel. As a female Sheppard, you can romance either Kaiden or Liara and can also get it on with 'The Consort'.
The Mass Effect bit out of the way, I'm actually looking forward to what the different companion characters are going to bring to the story. I'm looking forward to real quests and storyline in an MMO for once instead of the usual kill 10 crap, or collect 10 crap. BioWare make great storybased games and SW:TOR will be no different.
To all the jaded ex-SWGers, give it a rest. Please. I loved SWG too, but this game is something completely different and its not going to change just because you are throwing your toys out the pram! Plan to play this game and support it or GTFO tbh. There are plenty of sandboxes releasing this year and next year for us to enjoy, so this game not being sandox doesn't matter. I will play SW:TOR for my Star Wars fix and I'll either keep playing EVE, or pick up Fallen Earth or Earthrise for my sandbox fix. There is also Darkfall and Mortal Online, but I've had my fill of the fantasy genre so I'll be sticking to Sci-Fi and Post-Apoc.
MMORPG History:
Playing - EVE Online.
Played (Retired) - AO, SWG, MxO, WoW, RFO, SoR, CoX, EQ2, GW, L2, Vanguard, LotRO, AoC, TCoS, Aion.
Favourite MMO - Pre-CU SWG, 3 Years, 4 Accounts, 2 Pre-CU Jedi (1 Pre-9).
Awaiting - Star Wars: The Old Republic, The Secret World, Earthrise.
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
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Well, to my defense, I've never used vent. If people want to RP, then that's what they'll do. But some people won't and we're all going to have to accept it (this isn't no dictatorship).
IMHO they should loose the companion thing .... lets ppl grp up instead.
no thx i only wanna group with my rl freinds i cant stand people who go afk every 5 mins or simply cant play or cant do 2 things at once and have to stand still to type etc it´just ruins the game so no im glad theyr doing this theyr sticking true to kotor as they should if yoou dont like then gg kthxbye
{ Mod Edit }
Wow how old are you ...9 ??
I love Kotor great game, but that doesnt change the fact that I think that the MMO version shouldnt have companions.
I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
fails? hmm i wonder why wow has 12 mill subs hmm i wonder why ye cause its what people like? just look at darkfall lolz 20k people man thats what you would call beyond epic failure
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Name them. No wait let me do it;
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Aion, Mortal Online, all games that will encourage group play.
TOR, Champions Online, games that cater to the solo or small group play.
No I don't see it as becoming the standard I see it as an option that people simply did not have before.
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I do. MMO companies accept anyone as a customer. Quality standards would be better. Without such standards, an artificial AI makes a much better companion than the average human beast.
fails? hmm i wonder why wow has 12 mill subs hmm i wonder why ye cause its what people like? just look at darkfall lolz 20k people man thats what you would call beyond epic failure
What the hell is your problem you 4 year old? You have attacked 2 people for no reason when they are having a mature conversation.
anyway as far as immersion goes, its a vast minority of people who have ever been "immersed" in their mmo and thats no fault of games or technology normal people don't come to games looking for it and a lot of people simply can't do it. The people who look at a game and say i can get lost in that world are few and rightly not catered to.
Id add that this ruins it for the rest of us because some of the immersion stuff is pretty cool even for people who don't care at all about getting lost in the game.
EVERYONE with a pet? ugh....
Although at some point everyone had a droid in Star Wars Galaxies or a Creature handler pet (pre NGE)
Totally agree with this. Why complain when there's other MMOs coming out that will cater to completely different styles of game play? It's too much fun to whine maybe.
Evolution of a genre means that it splits into different sub genres, that's not a bad thing it means we are going forward.
I don't agree, because when a game is based on a mega IP, then naturally the entire fan-base is going to want that game to be what they want it to be. complaints are natural. If you're dying to play in a SW mmo, and TOR isn't what you want in an MMO, you're kina up the creek, eh?
Also when looking at the current and next gen mmo field, it would seem that the rpg-with-multiplayer is becoming the standard and the mmo-as-player-driven-community is disappearing. And I think that is where the fault line is for complaints about TOR right?
Name them. No wait let me do it;
Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Aion, Mortal Online, all games that will encourage group play.
TOR, Champions Online, games that cater to the solo or small group play.
No I don't see it as becoming the standard I see it as an option that people simply did not have before.
Ok,all the game I want to play, based on IP's I'm interested in
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
Ugh, no they don't.....where in anything did I say is Vent mentioned. I actually dislike getting on voice cause yeah is does break immersion most the time and make things a lot easier. Plus then I have to listen to immature boys with unbroken, female voices...blech!
However, if/when I ever get into a large raid which is very rare or I just wanna talk to friends...sure I use vent cause its easier to have a conversation.
To be quite honest there isn't a problem with this as far as experiencing a story-line goes. There are just a couple of major flaws with Bioware's logic on this one.
1. If it's to keep a sense of immersion then by virtue of the fact that you are making an MMORPG you are already fighting a useless battle. You can't have this whole, 'you're a hero, you're super special and a snowflake' BS when at some point you run into another player who is....exactly....like....you. That right there will shatter any sense of immersion.
2. The point of MMO's was, at least originally, was that you were just some guy/girl of class x. You want to be a hero? Well then YOU better make a name for YOURSELF. I'm sorry, but I just can't take any 'hero' storyline in an mmo the way the creators want me to.
Beyond those two points there are some other problems.
1. I like grouping with other people. That's how you build a community in an mmo. It's how guilds start or grow. If there is an option to form a player-group to handle group content then that's great. WoW already set the standard of a group matching system that makes finding a group much, much less of a hassle.
2. These 'companions' better leave after a certain point. High-level content shouldn't have a crutch of little companion AI's running around too. By high-level content I of course mean raids. Again, WoW already has a system of scalable raids that you can handle with different sized groups. Sorry to say it, but if you can solo ALL of the content of the game with your companions then people are going to get bored fast.
3. The companions shouldn't ever be involved in PvP. This is for two reasons, one personal and one not.
a. Personally I love PvP. PLAYER versus PLAYER. Not Player (and companion ai's) versus Player (and companion ai's). I have zero problem with controlling AI's in combat myself because I'm very good at mult-tasking. But if I want to control a bunch of AI's and a hero against another player then I'll just play DoW 2.
b. The vast majority of the ideas I've seen behind this game are directly derived from the experiences the newer generation of MMO gamers is used to. Those include fast, easy soloability (soloing shouldn't be a difficult thing), soloing to get good gear (not the best gear, but enough of the top-end stuff that it doesn't matter much) and basically variations of those two things in all facets of the game. Only the first of those things I completely agree with myself though. But I digress. The point is I don't think this newer generation could handle having to maintain and order around a group of AI's plus themselves in PvP. I think they'd honestly give up for the most part.
Granted my second concern is really just a brief telling of how I view newer MMO gamers, it's probably true.
Either way PvP should NEVER involve a group of AI companions in this fashion. I'm not going to respect any other views as far as PvP is concerned here. Yes, I'm saying, "I'm right, you're wrong. There is no other viewpoint on this."
However, I do support the idea to the extent of soloing up to high-level content. Let's be honest here, the lower levels of any MMO are the 'learning levels' and by mid-level if you haven't gotten a good idea of what you're doing you never will. End game is for refinement and where the majority of content usually lies, more or less.
My thoughts exactly. While having a pet/companion can be a fun option I also want to have the option of NOT having one; and not being disadvantaged in any way shape or form because of making that choice.
How else can the game have characters/players like for instance Boba Fett, a lone bounty hunter roaming the galaxy in his single-seat space ship, an individual that's most definitely not traveling around with a companion (or even a droid) at his side!
My thoughts exactly. While having a pet/companion can be a fun option I also want to have the option of NOT having one; and not being disadvantaged in any way shape or form because of making that choice.
How else can the game have characters/players like for instance Boba Fett, a lone bounty hunter roaming the galaxy in his single-seat space ship, an individual that's most definitely not traveling around with a companion (or even a droid) at his side!
Exactly. Before Han met Chewbaca he worked alone and was very successful at it.
Though really, all I see this companion thing as is a way for people who suck to feel big. You have all these AI's that do whatever you say and follow you around wherever. I honestly don't want to have to use these things. And I don't mean that in an optional way. I mean that if I choose not to use them then it should not affect my gameplay to any noticeable extent.
Exactly my thoughts....why not other players be my companions...screw this AI pet crap....always hated pet classes in MMOs to begin with and this is even worse.
To those that say, "but thats what KOTOR did" yeah and those games are single player games and it makes sense there. Why make this an MMO if right off the bat you're alienating your playbase from each other. This will be nothing more than a single player online chat room with avatars you can run around with...hoorah....no thx!
What's the first thing people do when they group up? They get on vent. Vent breaks immersion. Hell, grouping breaks immersion when 95% of the players go out of their way to talk about things other than the game you're playing with them. As a WOW player, you should know this more than anybody.
Q: Whats the fastest way to lose immersion?
A: Join a group.
Ugh, no they don't.....where in anything did I say is Vent mentioned. I actually dislike getting on voice cause yeah is does break immersion most the time and make things a lot easier. Plus then I have to listen to immature boys with unbroken, female voices...blech!
However, if/when I ever get into a large raid which is very rare or I just wanna talk to friends...sure I use vent cause its easier to have a conversation.
I wasn't aware that I needed your permission before bringing up a new facet to the argument. Can I please talk about the game outside of your own narrow point of view, please?!
Vent is one of the predominant trends in modern MMOs which I truly hate, and it ruins gameplay for me, even in modern-themed games. Hell, I don't even use my headset on my Xbox 360. I just shut up and kick ass. Half the people on vent don't even have anything cool or important to say anyway, so I'd prefer that they keep their little yappers shut. This genre used to be silent and wonderful. Now it's filled with little kids' voices.
More to the recent conversation, I would love to see an opt-out feature for sidekicks. It would be hard to balance, but it would still be fun to see characters maybe get a minor boost to exp or something for opting out.
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I imagine it would be something like having your own pet IG-88 or an Ebon Hawk repair drone type thing. A pet isn't always an animal you have to feed meat or such.
Oh yeah, WoW group voice chat is FTL, I couldn't believe the bullshit I heard on there.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Smoke on THAT, naysayers.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Smoke on THAT, naysayers.
I'm still saying nay because filling a battle with npc's in that fashion is utterly and completely retarded.
There are some exceptions to this that I will agree with. For example if you work your way up in fame and ranking then you can hire npc's to fight in a full-scale battle. And even then that would have to be well-done.
However, just having everybody with their e-peen enlarging party to inflate that numbers you see in pvp combat is lame. As I said, if PvP isn player (and their ai's) versus player (and ai's) then a large portion of individual skill is taken out of the equation.
Besides that you would run into a situation where your class choice doesn't matter. You can have companions, just find some that have abilities you don't! Yay! Useless class choice!
Smoke on -that-, supporters.
Of course, as I already said, if the companions aren't used in PvP and aren't used after a certain level then that would create a very interesting, fun environment.
Other people aren't always playing at the same time as me.
Other people aren't always playing in the same area as me.
Other people aren't always at my level
There are a great number of critera for situations that cause other players to stand in my way more than they move me forward. Its for this reason that MMO gaming has begun moving to more solo, casual content...because the old games forced us into far more downtime that was ever nessecary just to play.
In this games situation, they have solved the issue in a way that reflects the series it is based on. It makes perfect sense why they chose this route, as it remains a familiar set up for those that are already fans of the company and the series. Its perfect, for them.
In my opinion, the problem with MMO gaming is actually closer to OUR faults (the community of close minded players here) than it is anything else. We keep saying that driving elements of single player gameplay should not be added into our precious MMO gameplay...and its been dragging it down for years. We need the genre to embrace successful game design choices that already exist, and by not doing so we are engaging a futile war that only serves to limit our MMO options...rather than progress them.
For THIS game, the question should not be "does this system remove the need to play with others?"....but should be, "In what ways have they managed to make this system EMBRACE other players?" The only thing I can see....is massive encounters, each filled with players and their minions battling in wars the scope of the clone wars and reveling in it for hours.
Smoke on THAT, naysayers.
Ok, PvP aside which we take as a granted, MMO's should also promote positive player interactions. Not make them mandatory, but promote them. An MMO that goes out of its way to de-emphasize positive player interaction will be seen by many as (want to be careful here) not necessarily a bad game... but not strictly as an MMO. People who've been longing to bring together some of their favorite IP's and MMO's get disappointed when it turns out a lot of what they think makes an MMO an MMO will be left out of the game. There is a difference between an 'mmo' and an 'rpg with multiplayer'