Give me a fucking break with your excuses that this is a small company bla bla bla.
They never really beta tested this game worth shit. This kind of problems isnt excusable. I can understand them having issues with capacity. But with maybe less than 10k people who can even log into the game this is something they should have seen during beta.
This company who are self titled gamers, should have know about proper beta testing and they ignored it. Would i like to try the game yes, but at this point in time, considering the mess this game is in. I am glad i didnt fork 40 something Euros. This game so far isnt worth that much. Maybe in a month time when the server is stable, when there is no sync issue, when there's no queue isssue to get in the game, maybe then.
Chalk this up to lack of experience as a developper.
They probably just didn't have the funds to run a beta test. The economy is HORRIBLE right now - the investors for AV are probably pulling out on additional funding. So it was launch or die.
That's the thing though,
Recent MMO launch have sent a clear picture that you simply cant afford to have a bad MMO launch. Sure you can survive it but all the last few MMO's who have done this are just a glimpse of what they could have been if a proper decent launch was done.
Look at vanguard, the game now even though it is quite good (if you like PVE) Still hasnt recovered from its bad launch. Same with Conan and others who were rushed out. There's quite a bit fo examples out there and even tho the folks who hols the purse strings may want a return, they are better off to sit and wait than rush crap out.
Not sure it's time to say this is a bad launch but considering no one else can enter this game or pruchase a copy, this isnt a launch like someone pointed but a limited release closer to a PAID BETA than an actual release.
It's a lot closer to a bad release than a good one, let's just agree on that!
Give me a fucking break with your excuses that this is a small company bla bla bla.
They never really beta tested this game worth shit. This kind of problems isnt excusable. I can understand them having issues with capacity. But with maybe less than 10k people who can even log into the game this is something they should have seen during beta.
This company who are self titled gamers, should have know about proper beta testing and they ignored it. Would i like to try the game yes, but at this point in time, considering the mess this game is in. I am glad i didnt fork 40 something Euros. This game so far isnt worth that much. Maybe in a month time when the server is stable, when there is no sync issue, when there's no queue isssue to get in the game, maybe then.
Chalk this up to lack of experience as a developper.
They probably just didn't have the funds to run a beta test. The economy is HORRIBLE right now - the investors for AV are probably pulling out on additional funding. So it was launch or die.
Are you serious? You fans are amazing. You have labeled the adults on these forums as trolls, because we see the big picture. You guys take evreything at face value, because Tasos said it. In 7-10 years the fans of Darkfall are going to reach the age of 18, and will soon be moving out on their own. At some point between now and then, you are going to need to learn the value of a dollar. I undserstand right now it isn't your money on the line, which is why you can say, "they just didnt have the funds to run a beta test because the economy is horrible."
They should have robbed another investor then. This guy Tasos is a liar, and you guys just take it all in at face value. So give the guy a pass to lauch a pay to wait (game?)..Small company or not, It dosen't work here.
So because their was a 12 hour delay, of which free time was added you feel the need to crap on this game?! You know who you should blame? Blame blizzard, EA, turbine, etc for putting a bunch of crap games out over the years. It's their fault that they fucked the genre. Aventurine is just a small company who was trying to make a game to appeal to a long neglected niche of players. These other companies should be ashamed of themselves.
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
shouldnt sync problems have been handled during beta?
You would think so, but I don't think DF got anywhere near a proper stress test, plus weren't a lot of thinga turned off, like Mobs?
There were no syncing issues in beta. Lots of world updates included more mob spawns and near the end the world had a lot. So this is sync issue is new to me.
Oh, for baby Jesus' sake. This shit is gonna continue for months now. At every patch, every fix, server add/merge a variant of "The fans were right"/"The sceptics were right" will appear.
I'll just watch some more Sweeney Todd now.
"The hammer of the gods will drive our ships to new lands, To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming! On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
So because their was a 12 hour delay, of which free time was added you feel the need to crap on this game?! You know who you should blame? Blame blizzard, EA, turbine, etc for putting a bunch of crap games out over the years. It's their fault that they fucked the genre. Aventurine is just a small company who was trying to make a game to appeal to a long neglected niche of players. These other companies should be ashamed of themselves.
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
Comon.
Your a complete idiot. Should all games cater to me? No. Should some games cater to me? Yes. What's funny though is how shallow and aweful all of the mainstream MMO's are becomming that it is driving fans right into the arms of Aventurine, wheather they can handle them or not.
Oh, for baby Jesus' sake. This shit is gonna continue for months now. At every patch, every fix, server add/merge a variant of "The fans were right"/"The sceptics were right" will appear. I'll just watch some more Sweeney Todd now.
I think the whole thing is pretty hilarious. For years the "trolls" were able to claim the game was vaporware. Now the game is out there and they're coming up with any excuse possible to bash it still and label themselves as "responsible adults" despite quite a many of them bashing bought pre-orders.
Everyone should just stop. If you're a fan of the game or intend to play it, stick around. Stop bashing and start asking questions. Otherwise just leave and stop causing problems.
Originally posted by Ruyn There were no syncing issues in beta. Lots of world updates included more mob spawns and near the end the world had a lot. So this is sync issue is new to me.
There's a really simple reason for that.
They never had anywhere close to even 1000 beta testers online at a time. And any time they had a 'massive PvP' type thing going, where there were like 30 or 50 people on screen at a time, the game would be basically unplayable due to framerates.
A proper stress test would have been a good indicator of these issues beforehand.
Umm apparently ruyn wasnt in the beta becuase there were major sync issues about a week and a half ago after they patched in more mobs. It was the same exact problem as now, it took them about 2 days and 3 or 4 patches to finially fix it for most people. Even after they '"fixed" the sync problems there were still a few posts on the beta forums from poeple having sync issues that were ignored or just balmed on slow connections and bad hardware on the users end
So because their was a 12 hour delay, of which free time was added you feel the need to crap on this game?! You know who you should blame? Blame blizzard, EA, turbine, etc for putting a bunch of crap games out over the years. It's their fault that they fucked the genre. Aventurine is just a small company who was trying to make a game to appeal to a long neglected niche of players. These other companies should be ashamed of themselves.
When you charge as much as the big boys (EA, Blizz, etc) for admission you better be prepared to deliver. The size of the company doesn't matter. When I get hit for $50 US + $15 a month, they better get their shit together.
I give AV respect for trying, but right now, this launch is approaching D&L/AO proportions. And, here's the kicker, 50% +/- of the preorder players aren't even able to play yet. Wait till they jump on board. It's gonna get worse.... and what happens when they open up more spots for the general public?
Umm apparently ruyn wasnt in the beta becuase there were major sync issues about a week and a half ago after they patched in more mobs. It was the same exact problem as now, it took them about 2 days and 3 or 4 patches to finially fix it for most people. Even after they '"fixed" the sync problems there were still a few posts on the beta forums from poeple having sync issues that were ignored or just balmed on slow connections and bad hardware on the users end
I've never had sync issues, nor did any in our guild. Some had really bad lag and FPS dropped bad, but not me.
Specs: 8800 gts (320 mb)
dual core 3 grhz, 4 gigs ram, vista 64.
I held steady with 80 fps with everything that I could max and in battle with 50 people fps held at 40'ish. Ping while playing in Central Canada was 160 ish and sometimes would jump to 250-300 but would quickly settle down to normal. Very playable.
This is why you should always do a OBT and fully stress test the server. If not OBT then a CBT with enough testers to fill the server twice over.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
So because their was a 12 hour delay, of which free time was added you feel the need to crap on this game?! You know who you should blame? Blame blizzard, EA, turbine, etc for putting a bunch of crap games out over the years. It's their fault that they fucked the genre. Aventurine is just a small company who was trying to make a game to appeal to a long neglected niche of players. These other companies should be ashamed of themselves.
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
Comon.
Your a complete idiot. Should all games cater to me? No. Should some games cater to me? Yes. What's funny though is how shallow and aweful all of the mainstream MMO's are becomming that it is driving fans right into the arms of Aventurine, wheather they can handle them or not.
You know what you call it, when someone of a group of people, are dictating a market and keeping concepts and companies alive that are actually not rofitable? - You call that communism.
EvE has shown what a small, dedicated team of developers can pull off, that the market is dominated, but not controlled by the big players. While it is also arguable if they "crap out crappy games", as has been said before, the _good_ small titles are still able to get their (small) share of the cake.
First rule of marketing when selling services. Define what you are. Second rule. Define what you are not. Third rule. Deliver quality before quantity.
If anyone is to blame for an unsuccessful product on an entertainment service market, its the company!
I've never had sync issues, nor did any in our guild. Some had really bad lag and FPS dropped bad, but not me. Specs: 8800 gts (320 mb) dual core 3 grhz, 4 gigs ram, vista 64. I held steady with 80 fps with everything that I could max and in battle with 50 people fps held at 40'ish. Ping while playing in Central Canada was 160 ish and sometimes would jump to 250-300 but would quickly settle down to normal. Very playable.
Can't have a very large clan then. You may not have suffered them personally, but Murder Herd had several players rendered entirely invisibleby synch issues for two or three patches. Obviously, you wouldn't know about that, but you must have seen the beta forum threads about the SotA, Savage Alliance and Hyperion sieges that were horribly plagued by desynch and invisible players.
19/02/2009 @11pm - "Your Darkfall preorder was successful!" 26/02/2009 @11pm - "During the preorder of Darkfall, your credit card transacton failed."
I've never had sync issues, nor did any in our guild. Some had really bad lag and FPS dropped bad, but not me. Specs: 8800 gts (320 mb) dual core 3 grhz, 4 gigs ram, vista 64. I held steady with 80 fps with everything that I could max and in battle with 50 people fps held at 40'ish. Ping while playing in Central Canada was 160 ish and sometimes would jump to 250-300 but would quickly settle down to normal. Very playable.
Can't have a very large clan then. You may not have suffered them personally, but Murder Herd had several players rendered entirely invisibleby synch issues for two or three patches. Obviously, you wouldn't know about that, but you must have seen the beta forum threads about the SotA, Savage Alliance and Hyperion sieges that were horribly plagued by desynch and invisible players.
I'm a member of Savage Alliance's, Image. I mentioned some people had bad lag, and invisible players were a problem a few patches ago, but noone complained in vent about syncing issues...and I was involved in those big battles.
Edit: Maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly what sync is. I think of sync as you are in a different place on screen (same for mobs) then where they actually are.
2nd Edit: That said, I've never experienced anything like the de-sync issue I experienced during my lunch hour play session this aft.
this 10k figure keeps getting thrown around erroneously.
10k is *supposedly* (don't be oblivious to that word) how many simultaneous LOGGED IN players there can be. that's where that figure comes from.
let's just say they were way too optimistic and they can only hold 5k (just for the sake of argument).
i don't know the stats of what percentage of a server base is expected to be logged in at a given point, but i'll make a wild guess its like %20 or %25.
in those cases that would mean at least 20k-25k DF accounts.
if they actually lived up to concurrency projections, that'd be 40k-50k DF accounts.
you can irrelevantly argue about the specifics all you want, but don't keep confusing CONCURRENT logins with # of total DF accounts.
surprisingly i'm hearing that wrong figure mostly from fanboys so far.
I find it incredible that people create new mmorpg.com accounts to post this crap. Too scared to use your real account?. Like you have some kind of reputation on this site you need to protect. To that i can only ROFLMAO.
This is my real account you idiot. I made an account a month or so ago so I could vote for Darkfall in that user poll thing for best upcoming MMO.
I'm not a hater.
I'm just being realistic. Most people who replied so far understood what I was saying and that I wasn't a hater, just stating facts. I'm sorry if irrefutable facts makes you fanbois piss in your shittied panties.
P.S. I recieved an infraction for my Original Post, Lol @ the Nazi mods. Its not even they're game and they are taking a dump.
When you charge as much as the big boys (EA, Blizz, etc) for admission you better be prepared to deliver. The size of the company doesn't matter. When I get hit for $50 US + $15 a month, they better get their shit together.
I give AV respect for trying, but right now, this launch is approaching D&L/AO proportions. And, here's the kicker, 50% +/- of the preorder players aren't even able to play yet. Wait till they jump on board. It's gonna get worse.... and what happens when they open up more spots for the general public?
This post sums everything up perfectly. I only recently started following Darkfall, and it does look very promising. However, and yes other games have had bad releases...however this one is the worst I have personally seen. The game is supposedly "released' and yet you can't buy it, never mind play it. That definitely scares the crap out of me. There are thousands of us crazy people that actually want to spend $50 bucks and $15 a month right now...on nothing more then hope. There are about half the pre sale people supposedly logged on that cant even play the game. Now yes many games release too early and have many bugs, some make the game unplayable for about the first week. With Darkfall not only is this the case<unplayable bugs> but just showing a B grade company by not being able to supply their customers with their product. Its like Coca Cola running out of Coke. Im really glad im not an investor in this company. Also stress testing should be done in beta.....how do you make a game using an engine and not know if it will be able to meet the requirements you need?!? Thats one of the first things you need to test.
I find it incredible that people create new mmorpg.com accounts to post this crap. Too scared to use your real account?. Like you have some kind of reputation on this site you need to protect. To that i can only ROFLMAO.
This is my real account you idiot. I made an account a month or so ago so I could vote for Darkfall in that user poll thing for best upcoming MMO.
I'm not a hater.
I'm just being realistic. Most people who replied so far understood what I was saying and that I wasn't a hater, just stating facts. I'm sorry if irrefutable facts makes you fanbois piss in your shittied panties.
P.S. I recieved an infraction for my Original Post, Lol @ the Nazi mods. Its not even they're game and they are taking a dump.
A realistic person is by definition a hater/ troll by the Darkfall fans. Explaining logic and fact to one is countered by what you would expect if you told a 5 year old there is no Santa Clause.
Comments
They probably just didn't have the funds to run a beta test. The economy is HORRIBLE right now - the investors for AV are probably pulling out on additional funding. So it was launch or die.
That's the thing though,
Recent MMO launch have sent a clear picture that you simply cant afford to have a bad MMO launch. Sure you can survive it but all the last few MMO's who have done this are just a glimpse of what they could have been if a proper decent launch was done.
Look at vanguard, the game now even though it is quite good (if you like PVE) Still hasnt recovered from its bad launch. Same with Conan and others who were rushed out. There's quite a bit fo examples out there and even tho the folks who hols the purse strings may want a return, they are better off to sit and wait than rush crap out.
Not sure it's time to say this is a bad launch but considering no one else can enter this game or pruchase a copy, this isnt a launch like someone pointed but a limited release closer to a PAID BETA than an actual release.
It's a lot closer to a bad release than a good one, let's just agree on that!
Regardless of company size, think there is pretty much a set way to release a game.
Pre-orders...usually more than what...2 or 3 days before launch?
That would help to have ironed out the billing issues prior to actually launching.
Open Beta..stress test..AND..gives you something to gauge interest in the game.
---
When the movie industry knows they are releasing a movie that is utter crap..they dont let movie
reviewers see it prior to its debut. I find a similarity here.
You would think so, but I don't think DF got anywhere near a proper stress test, plus weren't a lot of thinga turned off, like Mobs?
They probably just didn't have the funds to run a beta test. The economy is HORRIBLE right now - the investors for AV are probably pulling out on additional funding. So it was launch or die.
Are you serious? You fans are amazing. You have labeled the adults on these forums as trolls, because we see the big picture. You guys take evreything at face value, because Tasos said it. In 7-10 years the fans of Darkfall are going to reach the age of 18, and will soon be moving out on their own. At some point between now and then, you are going to need to learn the value of a dollar. I undserstand right now it isn't your money on the line, which is why you can say, "they just didnt have the funds to run a beta test because the economy is horrible."
They should have robbed another investor then. This guy Tasos is a liar, and you guys just take it all in at face value. So give the guy a pass to lauch a pay to wait (game?)..Small company or not, It dosen't work here.
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
Comon.
You would think so, but I don't think DF got anywhere near a proper stress test, plus weren't a lot of thinga turned off, like Mobs?
There were no syncing issues in beta. Lots of world updates included more mob spawns and near the end the world had a lot. So this is sync issue is new to me.
Oh, for baby Jesus' sake. This shit is gonna continue for months now. At every patch, every fix, server add/merge a variant of "The fans were right"/"The sceptics were right" will appear.
I'll just watch some more Sweeney Todd now.
To fight the horde, singing and crying: Valhalla, I am coming!
On we sweep with threshing oar, our only goal will be the western shore."
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
Comon.
Your a complete idiot. Should all games cater to me? No. Should some games cater to me? Yes. What's funny though is how shallow and aweful all of the mainstream MMO's are becomming that it is driving fans right into the arms of Aventurine, wheather they can handle them or not.
Hard to merge one server.
I think the whole thing is pretty hilarious. For years the "trolls" were able to claim the game was vaporware. Now the game is out there and they're coming up with any excuse possible to bash it still and label themselves as "responsible adults" despite quite a many of them bashing bought pre-orders.
Everyone should just stop. If you're a fan of the game or intend to play it, stick around. Stop bashing and start asking questions. Otherwise just leave and stop causing problems.
There's a really simple reason for that.
They never had anywhere close to even 1000 beta testers online at a time. And any time they had a 'massive PvP' type thing going, where there were like 30 or 50 people on screen at a time, the game would be basically unplayable due to framerates.
A proper stress test would have been a good indicator of these issues beforehand.
Umm apparently ruyn wasnt in the beta becuase there were major sync issues about a week and a half ago after they patched in more mobs. It was the same exact problem as now, it took them about 2 days and 3 or 4 patches to finially fix it for most people. Even after they '"fixed" the sync problems there were still a few posts on the beta forums from poeple having sync issues that were ignored or just balmed on slow connections and bad hardware on the users end
well i do hope they adress these issues fast. This type of sync problems will render pvp useless.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
When you charge as much as the big boys (EA, Blizz, etc) for admission you better be prepared to deliver. The size of the company doesn't matter. When I get hit for $50 US + $15 a month, they better get their shit together.
I give AV respect for trying, but right now, this launch is approaching D&L/AO proportions. And, here's the kicker, 50% +/- of the preorder players aren't even able to play yet. Wait till they jump on board. It's gonna get worse.... and what happens when they open up more spots for the general public?
This is just the beginning of the clusterfuck.
I've never had sync issues, nor did any in our guild. Some had really bad lag and FPS dropped bad, but not me.
Specs: 8800 gts (320 mb)
dual core 3 grhz, 4 gigs ram, vista 64.
I held steady with 80 fps with everything that I could max and in battle with 50 people fps held at 40'ish. Ping while playing in Central Canada was 160 ish and sometimes would jump to 250-300 but would quickly settle down to normal. Very playable.
This is why you should always do a OBT and fully stress test the server. If not OBT then a CBT with enough testers to fill the server twice over.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Grow up, you and ur lil niche arnt the center of the universe. Should all games be made just for you and your friends.
Comon.
Your a complete idiot. Should all games cater to me? No. Should some games cater to me? Yes. What's funny though is how shallow and aweful all of the mainstream MMO's are becomming that it is driving fans right into the arms of Aventurine, wheather they can handle them or not.
You know what you call it, when someone of a group of people, are dictating a market and keeping concepts and companies alive that are actually not rofitable? - You call that communism.
EvE has shown what a small, dedicated team of developers can pull off, that the market is dominated, but not controlled by the big players. While it is also arguable if they "crap out crappy games", as has been said before, the _good_ small titles are still able to get their (small) share of the cake.
First rule of marketing when selling services. Define what you are. Second rule. Define what you are not. Third rule. Deliver quality before quantity.
If anyone is to blame for an unsuccessful product on an entertainment service market, its the company!
M
Can't have a very large clan then. You may not have suffered them personally, but Murder Herd had several players rendered entirely invisible by synch issues for two or three patches. Obviously, you wouldn't know about that, but you must have seen the beta forum threads about the SotA, Savage Alliance and Hyperion sieges that were horribly plagued by desynch and invisible players.
19/02/2009 @11pm - "Your Darkfall preorder was successful!"
26/02/2009 @11pm - "During the preorder of Darkfall, your credit card transacton failed."
Ahh, classic Tasos!
wasnt a member of murder herd on earlier saying the game was running flawlessly?
I'm sure when Darkfall releases for real in 2012 everything will be fine.
Can't have a very large clan then. You may not have suffered them personally, but Murder Herd had several players rendered entirely invisible by synch issues for two or three patches. Obviously, you wouldn't know about that, but you must have seen the beta forum threads about the SotA, Savage Alliance and Hyperion sieges that were horribly plagued by desynch and invisible players.
I'm a member of Savage Alliance's, Image. I mentioned some people had bad lag, and invisible players were a problem a few patches ago, but noone complained in vent about syncing issues...and I was involved in those big battles.
Edit: Maybe I'm misunderstanding exactly what sync is. I think of sync as you are in a different place on screen (same for mobs) then where they actually are.
2nd Edit: That said, I've never experienced anything like the de-sync issue I experienced during my lunch hour play session this aft.
this 10k figure keeps getting thrown around erroneously.
10k is *supposedly* (don't be oblivious to that word) how many simultaneous LOGGED IN players there can be. that's where that figure comes from.
let's just say they were way too optimistic and they can only hold 5k (just for the sake of argument).
i don't know the stats of what percentage of a server base is expected to be logged in at a given point, but i'll make a wild guess its like %20 or %25.
in those cases that would mean at least 20k-25k DF accounts.
if they actually lived up to concurrency projections, that'd be 40k-50k DF accounts.
you can irrelevantly argue about the specifics all you want, but don't keep confusing CONCURRENT logins with # of total DF accounts.
surprisingly i'm hearing that wrong figure mostly from fanboys so far.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
This is my real account you idiot. I made an account a month or so ago so I could vote for Darkfall in that user poll thing for best upcoming MMO.
I'm not a hater.
I'm just being realistic. Most people who replied so far understood what I was saying and that I wasn't a hater, just stating facts. I'm sorry if irrefutable facts makes you fanbois piss in your shittied panties.
P.S. I recieved an infraction for my Original Post, Lol @ the Nazi mods. Its not even they're game and they are taking a dump.
When you charge as much as the big boys (EA, Blizz, etc) for admission you better be prepared to deliver. The size of the company doesn't matter. When I get hit for $50 US + $15 a month, they better get their shit together.
I give AV respect for trying, but right now, this launch is approaching D&L/AO proportions. And, here's the kicker, 50% +/- of the preorder players aren't even able to play yet. Wait till they jump on board. It's gonna get worse.... and what happens when they open up more spots for the general public?
This is just the beginning of the clusterfuck.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This post sums everything up perfectly. I only recently started following Darkfall, and it does look very promising. However, and yes other games have had bad releases...however this one is the worst I have personally seen. The game is supposedly "released' and yet you can't buy it, never mind play it. That definitely scares the crap out of me. There are thousands of us crazy people that actually want to spend $50 bucks and $15 a month right now...on nothing more then hope. There are about half the pre sale people supposedly logged on that cant even play the game. Now yes many games release too early and have many bugs, some make the game unplayable for about the first week. With Darkfall not only is this the case<unplayable bugs> but just showing a B grade company by not being able to supply their customers with their product. Its like Coca Cola running out of Coke. Im really glad im not an investor in this company. Also stress testing should be done in beta.....how do you make a game using an engine and not know if it will be able to meet the requirements you need?!? Thats one of the first things you need to test.
This is my real account you idiot. I made an account a month or so ago so I could vote for Darkfall in that user poll thing for best upcoming MMO.
I'm not a hater.
I'm just being realistic. Most people who replied so far understood what I was saying and that I wasn't a hater, just stating facts. I'm sorry if irrefutable facts makes you fanbois piss in your shittied panties.
P.S. I recieved an infraction for my Original Post, Lol @ the Nazi mods. Its not even they're game and they are taking a dump.
A realistic person is by definition a hater/ troll by the Darkfall fans. Explaining logic and fact to one is countered by what you would expect if you told a 5 year old there is no Santa Clause.